CLASSIC: Operation Snow White

What was the most widespread infiltration of the US government? According to some sources, it came from within. Tune in to learn more about the story of Operation Snow White -- and why the Church of Scientology and the US government still don't agree on what actually happened. Join Ben and Matt for this startling -- and bizarre -- classic episode.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
So we've been asked over the years pretty often about
whether we've done an episode on Scientology. This this is
a little bit weird for us, and maybe not for
the reasons people might assume Scientology is a very litigious
organization legally speaking. But uh, but we also don't want

(00:22):
to denigrate people's personal beliefs. So we had to find
the perfect Scientology story, a real conspiracy, one of the
biggest ever perpetrated in the US. And Scientology officially says
they didn't uh, they didn't condone it. But the U.
S Supreme Court disagrees. Yeah, says otherwise for sure. And

(00:43):
this was way back in the seventies, with the Church
of Scientology essentially trying to get rid of any negative
records about the organization or its founder H. L. Ron Hubbard. Um.
And also, while we're at it, real quick, highly recommend
and you check out another one of our fellow podcasts
called fair Game UM about the Church of Scientology is

(01:06):
practice of essentially stalking anyone that speaks ill of the church.
Strap in your theatin's we're headed toward Operation snow White
from UFOs two Ghosts and Government cover Ups. History is
wiled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or
learn the stuff they don't want you to now. Hey, everybody,

(01:33):
welcome back to the show. This is stuff they don't
want you to know. My name is Matt and I
am Ben and today we're covering something pretty great, something
that we were a little trepidatious about early on when
we were deciding to cover it, but we ended up
just just going out and doing it, and we even

(01:55):
made a vlog. We made a vlog basically prefacing that
it was gonna be dangerous for us to make this episode.
And so far, I mean, have you heard anything from
our ce A blog. Uh, we haven't heard anything from
the Church of Scientology themselves, but we have heard from
our audience, and you guys were saying, w TF, man,

(02:19):
what what's going on? Why aren't you talking more about Scientology?
We want to hear more about it, um, And we
might do that in the future, but we thought we
could spend some time today looking into operations snow white, right, yeah, exactly.
So this is kind of our little companion show with
our it's gonna match up with our video episode on

(02:39):
this subject. Um, so you know, maybe open a window
with both at the same time. So we can reference
the video and you can listen to the podcast. It's
gonna be this crazy experience for you. You're gonna love it. Well.
As we're getting to operations snow White, Matt, if it's
cool with you, I'd like to run through a real
quick timeline of Scientology. Okay, yeah, the history, yeah yeah,

(03:01):
super high level. Okay, So around ninety eight or so,
l Ron Hubbard, who later goes on to found Scientology,
writes a manuscript called Excalibur, and according to most non
Scientology sources, so most people outside the church objectively looks
at this. Yeah, ex caliber has some of the seeds

(03:24):
that later grow into founding principles of Scientology. So nineteen
forty nine, uh, he starts working on what will later
become dianetics. He publishes something they are called Terra Incognita,
the mind u. He offers the findings, there's conclusions to
the American Medical Association American Psychiatric Association. They're not as

(03:49):
jazzed about it as he is. Uh. Nineteen fifty, of course,
he publishes his landmark dionetics Modern Science Mental Health, and
this dionetics idea takes off pretty well, right, So he
starts the Hubbard Dianetic Foundation of Wichita in the fifties,
and then in May of nineteen fifty two he publicly

(04:12):
announces the formal establishment of the philosophy of scientology. Uh
and demonstrates you know what would later become the famous
E meter. And now we have nineteen fifty four when
the Church of Science Pology is incorporated in California and Arizona.

(04:34):
At the time, the I R. S grants attacks exemption because,
as we know, religious organizations in the United States are
exempt from taxation. Yeah. Um, I would say they are
probably a good number of people that might have a
problem with that. Yeah, I'm one of them. Yeah, I'm
one of them too. Okay, Well, at least we're being

(04:55):
honest with everybody about it. Uh. So we could spend
a lot of time in the early his So your scientology,
which you and I both find fascinating, which by the way,
has nothing to do with the film The Master. You
should that should just be a caveat there. Yeah, that
is just a study of how manipulation occurs, exactly by

(05:16):
a guy that has no similarities whatsoever to Mr l
Round Covered. A lot of people write science fiction and
go on to established religions. Yeah, so many several. Well,
the guy the Master for sure. Okay, so let's go
to the meat of the problem. Operation snow White. Now,

(05:39):
Operations snow White is a real thing that did happen
according to the United States court system. And this was
really interesting in our episode, right because, um, you saw
there's a Scientology Myths website run by pro Scientology group
and they say that this whole thing was kind of

(05:59):
exact dradd blown out of proportion, didn't actually happen, But
the nuts and bolts of it are this, Um, eleven
senior people in what was called the Guardian Office of
the church were convicted of obstructing justice, so stopping an investigation,
burglarizing government offices, stealing documents and government property. And uh,

(06:27):
they were found guilty. They were convicted. There's no other
way around it, right for those guys. And is there
only one woman? Was it just el around Mary Mary
Sue Hubbard? Yeah? Or Mary Sue at least? Um, but
l Ron Hubbard himself was not convicted. The Operations so

(06:49):
White stands as the single largest proven infiltration of the
US government, right, Yeah, which and it is referred to
as the no White program um internally in Scientology. So
if you ever hear that, that's the same thing that
we're talking about here. Yeah, that's a great point because
it comes down to and in a lot of ways,

(07:12):
both groups, both the US government and legal system of
the country and UH Scientology organization are putting their own
narrative on this right. And so according to the Church
of Scientology, these people in the Guardians Office, we're acting
in their own accord. The idea of the snow White program,

(07:36):
as laid out by Hubbard was to correct misinformation, yes,
and to do it by legal means, at least that's
what he stated. Yeah, that's right, absolutely, because according to
the people who are more on the pro Scientology side
of this operation Snow White, this idea of infiltrating the

(07:57):
US government UH to steal I r S forms among
other things, was total bs didn't exist mythological. But the
snow White program which Hubbard talked about was completely legal.
But um, the question here is was it really legally

(08:17):
correcting a number of here my air quotes here everybody
false governmental reports about the church, its leaders, and its members,
or were they just reports that they didn't like? Right?
And what was the level of persecution because the other
the other idea is that I feel like it's a
bit of an argument of semantics snow white program versus

(08:41):
operations snow white and uh, the accusation that critics of
the Church of Scientology purposefully misinformed people or spread disinformation
about this. Uh. The thing is that when Hubbard wrote
the snow White Program, like, let's just say the Church

(09:02):
of Scientology's views on this are but for the sake
of argument, let's go with that. So we know that
he wrote it in nineteen seventy three, UM, and that
the Apollo, the ship that he was staying on, was
meeting hostility and European harbors because of the accusations against

(09:27):
the Church of Scientology by former members by governmental agencies
across US and Europe, or in the United States and Europe.
So this led to some crazy things happening. And there
might be a little bit to the idea of an intentional,
um active persecution against the Church of Scientology because this

(09:50):
rumor started spreading UM in nineteen seventy three, UH, that
the Apollo was a c I a ship, that it
was somehow associated with the world's favorite clandestined services, and
the internet spread that rumor. Well, it turns out that

(10:11):
a State Department telex, right, you heard about this State
Department tallex was sent around in what seventy two I believe.
So yeah, and you know, you make waves when that
kind of statement comes out literally in the ocean, right,
And so we we know that there is some evidence

(10:32):
that the State Department really did uh have some sort
of problem with Harvard and was sort of was using
some slightly less than ethical means to persecute the guy
on his s ORG vote. So one of the things

(10:56):
we didn't talk about too much are the methods used
by some of the people involved in the Operation snow White,
Like how did they actually get these files? And there
are a couple of different ways that they did this,
And I'm taking I'm getting this information from an interview
that was conducted with Mike mcclaufrey. He was an o
s A officer, that's the Office of Special Affairs, and

(11:20):
he said they use a couple of methods. One of
them was this thing called a suitable Guys g U
I s E. And this is the idea that you
just make letterhead perhaps of a false company or a
news agency um, and you send a letter out to
some other agencies, say the d e A, and you

(11:40):
ask for certain documents because you're going to make a film.
In particular, he talks about how one of his people
said they were going to be making an anti scientology
movie and could we please get all these files that
you have on record of them so that we can
use it in our movie. And that's one way they
would do. Another with the way they would do it

(12:01):
would would be to literally break into a building like
the what the heck was it? Yeah, this is the
d a's office, So that he's talking about in this
interview where he had his right hand man go in
and unlock the women's bathroom window so that he could
come in and use a lock pick to get into

(12:21):
the filing cabinet and then copy all the files. I
found that really interesting, and I think that right there
is where you start getting into the illegal stuff, because
it's not illegal to uh, well, I don't know if
it is illegal or not to create a ruse to
get some documents. Oh well, it I think it becomes

(12:42):
fraud at that point. It can be because it's intentionally
pretending or purporting to be someone different, but those those
are really good points. I guess you could always say
if if someone does try to prosecute you for what,
you could always say, you're honor it was satirical. It

(13:03):
was satire. That's pretty great. One of the things that
we should say about the operation snow White, or excuse me,
cough cough, the snow White program is I'll go ahead
and for in the sake of fairness, read the official
statement from Scientology myths. How about that the snow White
program is not being executed today. It was a very

(13:24):
specific program for a special state of affairs at the
time it was written. The Church of Scientology, however, continues
to use the Freedom of Information Act in similar laws
all over the world to defend its right of non
discrimination and freedom for all. So you know, that's clearly
a statement marketed towards the public. UM, and that's their
specific position. In the case of the United States versus Hubbard, Uh,

(13:50):
the legal system of the US did find that there
was an active conspiracy, and this has been distressing to people. Um.
One thing I wanted to ask you about this, Matt,
that we never really got a chance to talk about.
As earlier we said this was the largest proven infiltration
of the United States. Do you think that there could

(14:12):
be another one? Oh? Yeah, dude, read scaring all that.
Come on, man, that was huge infiltration of the US.
How much FAMMI is there everywhere? Now? We do know
that there were communist forces in the US at the time.
I mean, McCarthy was crazy, but he also had some

(14:33):
good points there. So you think that that you think
then if there were a larger infiltration of the government,
that it would be from a foreign power, like I
think that's the likely Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's the most likely.
Culprit Well, what do you think about the idea that
the largest infiltration of government is by banking, as in

(14:57):
a central bank that is in a way affiliated with
the U. S. Government, whereas in a private, private banking
UH concern You know, the idea that one of the
larger banks, like maybe JP Morgan or something would be
able to infiltrate the US government. And when we can
find infiltrate, we're saying by not necessarily burglarized somebody's office

(15:21):
so much as UH swayed the decisions or write the laws,
getting people who work for them than to work for
the government. You mean kind of like a I don't know,
sliding the what is the phrase the rotating some sort
of door that revolves the revolving door, I mean, which
is a real thing that exists. And once you're done
with Congress, you can go work for any number of

(15:44):
large banking institutions or uh, you know, there's so many
there's so many jobs you can get after being a
congressman or a senator. Yeah. The job security post politics
is pretty good as long as you toe the party lines.
And a couple of things you can never go on
record saying, right, And I wonder I don't have any statistics,

(16:06):
but I wonder if it works the other way around
just as easily, Like if you can go from private
to political. Yeah, why would you want to? I don't know,
but I guess to change the rules. It's a good question. Yeah,
it's a good question. So we're that's speculation in our
part um. We're we're talking. You know, I like that

(16:29):
we both had two big guesses. Right. And we received
some emails from some other people or YouTube comments, Facebook
comments and stuff about the other infiltration possibilities, and they
ran the gamut. We had a couple of people that
popped up every time you know, corporate infiltration popped up,
the idea of communist infiltration popped up in a few others.

(16:52):
But it made me think that we should really cover
infiltration in our show on video show, and that's what
we're doing. Um. But before we go out, Matt, do
you want do you want to do some listener mail?
I do? All right. Here is some listener mail we

(17:15):
got from Tom n. Ben. It says, dear, Dear, I
guess stuff they don't want you to know. Longtime subscriber,
first time writer. Have you guys ever delved into any
of these mysterious object blocking the Highway ninety nine drill,
the by Gong pipes okay, the Great Attractor or gravitational anomaly,

(17:39):
and also d MT and Mother beings. Loyal fan Tom
n Okay, Now I don't know several of these. I've
never even heard. The Highway ninety nine drill, I guess
that was a thing. Or the by Gong pipes. The
by Gong pipes, I know, are a mysterious set of
artifacts that are go into that that extend from the

(18:03):
grounds there in China that are supposed to be they
it's hard they can't figure out how they were made
at the time, I guess I think. Yeah, they've got
a couple of questions. How were they made, Why were
they made? You know, were they vents for something underground?
And the areas that they lead to are too small
for a person, So is it an ancient It's probably

(18:25):
an ancient technology, technology of some sort, but we're not
sure what now. As for the Great Tractor, the anomaly,
that's something that you and I haven't explored any more
than the sing on Highway. But d MT my friends,
Oh yes, they have an episode just about d m T. Yeah,
and it's actually coming out. I'm not exactly sure when

(18:47):
this publishes, but it's gonna be out hopefully by the
time you uh here this episode. It will be on
our channel on YouTube dot com slash Conspiracy Stuff, and
also on iTunes yep, and we're also on Facebook and
Twitter as Conspiracy Stuff. We need to ask for help
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(19:08):
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(19:51):
don't know. All right, So we're gonna get out of here.
Thank you guys so much for checking out the show. Uh.
And that's the end of this classic episode. If you
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