October 6, 2020 • 23 mins
It's true - the Soviet government really did have its own parapsychological research program. And, unlike MKULTRA and other US operations, the Soviet version continued until 2003, when it officially ended. Tune in to learn more with Ben and Matt in today's Classic episode.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
In this week's classic episode, we would like to present
to you a very strange story that is at least
partially true. And there's a story of a conspiracy halfway
around the world, conspiracy that takes place in the darkest
depths of classified institutions throughout the U. S. S R.
(00:25):
If you're a longtime listener to the show, then you
have doubtlessly heard of the United States program known as
MK Ultra, and you've read any number of books, You've
seen any number of documentaries about the us IS classified
experiments with things like allegations of esp or psychic powers.
(00:49):
But did you know that the U. S s R
had its own program and so in form of paraspsychological
research they called the psycho tronics, And like the US,
they experimented in this field for a number of years.
In fact, the some version of the Soviet era program
(01:15):
continued until two thousand and three, at least officially. In
today's Classic, we dive deep into the strange, twisted story
of psychotronics from UFOs two, ghosts and government cover ups.
History is writtled with unexplained events. You can turn back
(01:36):
now or learn the stuff they don't want you to now. Hello, everyone,
and welcome back to the show. My name is Matt
the theyve been Actually, my real name is Ben, and
I promise I won't do that accent anymore. Uh, Matt,
(01:57):
I can always tell when things are about to get
serious on our show, whether it's our video or audio,
because you've got the E. You've got the E smoke going.
Oh yeah, yeah, sorry about that. No, it's cool. It
reminds me of the caterpillar in Alice in Wonderlands. Oh wow,
that's the look. I'm going for. Caterpillar with a hookah?
(02:18):
Is that the That's that explains so much about our
profile picks that we've been working on. Uh, we are
talking today about two of my favorite subjects, government secrets
and the search for psychic powers or just fringe science. Right,
we're fans of that, Yes, anything on the fringe. You
(02:40):
and I grew up loving The X Files, loving Twilight Zone,
Outer Limits. Yeah, we even sat through a couple of
the downer seasons of Fringe. Yeah it happened, it was.
I'm on the fifth season, by the way, you should know.
How are you still watching it? Yeah? I kin't finished it. Okay, well,
please don't spoil it. I won't tell me. Hey, you
(03:03):
know what, the writers did a good, good enough job
spoiling fresh help. Don't tell me that. Oh no, I'm kidding.
It's it's one man's opinion. But when we are talking
about these things, we naturally go to one of the
coolest subjects we've talked about in a while, which was
(03:26):
the Soviet version of m k Ultra. I mean, that's
what we called on the show, right, Yeah, Well, it's
also the Soviet version of Project Stargate. Yeah, it's it's
got a lot of similarities to the weirdness that our
own the US government was doing. Now, what was Project Stargate.
Project Stargate was basically, again trying to make psychic soldiers
in the US, trying to figure out a way to
(03:48):
unlock this weird mind body connection that was considered pseudoscience
by even a lot of people who were doing it.
But but they wanted to make sure that it wasn't real,
you know, So that perhaps we talked about in the
episode that if if it is real and we just
aren't spending the money to research it and one of
our enemies does, then we're in a whole heap of trouble. Yeah,
(04:11):
And when we when we're talking about psychic powers, I
don't know about you, guys, I like specifics. We're specifically
talking about UM. One of one of the biggest things
they researched on the u S side was out of
body experience. Is it possible to train people to train
soldiers or intelligence operatives to travel remotely and to somehow
(04:36):
perceive things thousands of kilometers away? Yeah, remote viewing man,
that was one of the biggest pushes. Yeah, that's the
term remote viewing. Ingo Swan one of the biggest guys
in this UM and I used to when I was
a kid. I had those Time Life mystery books that
talked about Ingo Swan at length. And it's interesting because
(04:57):
Swan maintains that he really has a legitimate ability to
do this, and other people have worked with him have
argued the same thing, but not all of them, And
quite a few people have said, well, the reason that
this was shut down is because ultimately we just found
(05:17):
out that there was no real ability to do this,
or that even if this ability existed, it was not
applicable or useful. Yeah, and it wasn't accurate enough, right,
which is kind of what UM sony was. It Sony
kind of Sony said, when they shut down, there's their
(05:38):
ESP program. Yep, true story, you guys, Sony had an
ESP program. That's the story for another day, and they
used it in in all of their CD technologies. As
we see, it's crazy it actually says ESP on there
you remember that having that No, that's perfect. Yeah, it's
a good point because it's it's uh, it's range. We
(06:01):
that's one of the things that you and I didn't
believe when we first started reading it. We were convinced
that ESP stood for some other acronym, you know, like
Electronic Sound provider or something like that. Yeah, but this
this one was a real ESP program, and the US
(06:22):
of course had them as well. Uh, the Soviet ideas
were very different. Um. Now, a lot of this that
comes to us comes from recently to classify documents, and
they are just the the tip of a red iceberg here. Huh.
I know, but they are. I just I wrote it
(06:44):
down earlier, so I wanted to try it out. But
these these programs, um if the information we're getting can
be trusted, began in nineteen seventeen, which is the year
of the Russian Revolution, so it predates the US US
are and that's interesting to continue to two thousand three officially,
(07:05):
which is even more interesting to me. And they did
research in a different way. Their research was meant to
be a little more quantitative rather than qualitative, right, so
they measured the UM. They they wanted to walk away
with concrete numbers and compare and compile and analyze, uh,
(07:30):
these pieces of data so that they could figure out
if there was really something going on. And a lot
of their experiments focused not so much on remote viewing
as they did on UM. The idea of electro magnetic
or electrochemical fields. Yeah, yeah, exactly. That it's that that
(07:52):
free energy that's been searched for since we figure since
man has figured out that there is energy or there's
some kind of ectricity or power that you can harness
in the environment, and there's so many people who have
looked for it and failed to find it, at least
in my opinion, Tesla arguing, yeah, and uh, we we
(08:15):
know that the we know that the governments of the
time in the USSR was on board with a lot
of this stuff. And you can see some fascinating photographs
of devices that people have built with the idea that
they would harness this energy through things called serpan um
(08:35):
strange looking things. They look like thermos is almost Yeah.
They handles their cylindrical with these handles, don't know. Some
of them were strapped two people. Some of them were
simply held, uh. The idea being that if all living
things emanate this field in some way, then we could
(08:57):
build something that would aggregate and apply or direct this energy.
And they were directing it with the with the hope
of doing things like, um, having plants grow faster was one.
Producing neurological effects, so having someone's brain function be affected
(09:22):
in some way, which is frighteningly vague. Yeah, I know, yeah,
oh man, but that that would be great if you
could somehow really send out in an enhancing intelligence ray
with some device that was strapped onto you. I guess
you need a group of people and if it worked
the way they thought it would work, right, Yeah, they
did think it was a cumulative effect. Um. But they
(09:43):
also they also focused on you know, this was one
of their most interesting areas of focus and something that
the US wasn't really focused on. They also used these
torsion generators. We do have to point out that the Russians,
or rather the Soviets at this time did have UH
psychics that they would conduct tests on, and those tests
(10:06):
would be some of the same stuff we hear in
the United States, you know. Uh, the idea of whether
or not clairvoyance existed, which was not proven satisfactorily. The
idea whether or not there would be UM an ability
to predict the future. It's also not proven very well.
Uh telekinesis, which as much as I wanted to be real,
was not proven. Um. Again, if you believe that any
(10:28):
of those things truly are real right now listening to
this podcast, um. And I don't mean to sound like
an extreme skeptic, because I'm certainly not. As soon as
I have evidence that shows me that any of those
things are real, I'm down because I I want to believe,
just like the old X Files. But you should really
talk to or listen to James Randy because the guy
(10:50):
makes some really great points just about how he's offering
craploads of money to anybody that can prove this stuff.
Oh that's right, Yes, the famous one million dollars for
proof of any UH psychic, parapsychological or paranormal phenomenon by
James Randy and it's a little bit controversial. In fact,
(11:10):
I'd like to do a podcast on that maybe in
the future. I'm gonna be totally honest with you, though
this is a part where we might differ. I think
that it is quite possible that in the future we
will come to understand a scientific explanation or what we
(11:31):
perceive um occasionally to be psychic powers. I don't know
what I don't. I don't think somebody's gonna go, oh,
telekinesis is real and we just discovered it in I
think that's preposterous, but could be some kind of fourth
dimensional time distortion. Right. We understand so little about the
(11:51):
nature of consciousness, the nature of physics, especially at a
very small and very large level that we are we
we don't even we don't even have gravity figured out.
I mean, if you think about the potential span of
human history, my friend, we are still in the dark ages.
So I think I'm gonna be a little more optimistic
(12:13):
about it. We don't we don't have the tools yet
to discover the explanations behind a lot of these things
UM or the explanations behind a lot of these reports.
We do know that there are quite a few mundane
things that can explain stuff like the feeling of deja
vu has a fairly there's a fairly solid theory of
(12:34):
what happens in our brain that makes us perceive that. Right.
They didn't have this when they were doing a lot
of these Cold War experiments, right, and Uh, they had
some enemies. We talked about the Academy of Russian Scientists
hated these programs because they, you know, this was centralized funding.
(12:54):
So they said, you government are taking funding for real
science and applying it to pseudo science. Right. But there's
a I think there was a bit of cynicism in
some of these programs. We do know that the Soviets
also sent people to uh Shangra Law to out to
(13:17):
search the the steps and and uh comb through Tibet
for um. I think propaganda purposes more than anything else.
I don't think they were really out to discover some
ancient secrets so much as they were to discover some
brilliant marketing. Yeah. That would have been just a little
icing on the cake if they had actually discovered something crazy. Yeah,
(13:39):
And there's an interesting part here when we talk about this, uh,
when we talk about what they did discover, because here's
the weird part. We don't know, I don't have any idea,
isn't that always? Man? That is the case so often
with us, just because we there's so much information that's
withheld uh from everyone that we kind of get up
(14:02):
against this wall. And just for if you're a new
listener perhaps to the show, we really trying to not
speculate as much as give you the information that is
there and then you know, go maybe a couple inches
over that line, just to let you know what we think.
There's uh yeah. And in this respect, there are some
(14:23):
things that we can say about Russian UM or Soviet
research in these fields. We know that, for instance, we
know that both a former defense minister and uh Putin
himself have talked about the future of unconventional weapons. We
also know that in the West research on these directed
(14:46):
energy weapons UH is occurring. We know that the technology
exists to give people the sensation that they are hearing voices,
which is freaky, right. You have me to that one
man that gives me not We we know it's it's
fairly obvious that the actual bleeding edge or cutting edge
(15:08):
of technology is several years at minimum ahead of what
the public thinks it is. Like one of the latest
revelations that just came out, which will be a few
weeks old now when this publishes, which we posted to
our Facebook earlier today, was that the n s A
doesn't need an Internet connection to hack a computer anymore.
It just needs a radio signal, just needs a radio
(15:30):
wave and a little gadget about the size of a
briefcase that some unsuspecting dude is carrying around. Oh but
don't worry, it's not in the United States, right, Sorry
everybody else. Yeah, but the but the point we're making
is that it is completely possible that some of this
(15:51):
fringe research into really crazy stuff lead to applicable results.
I like the comparison. I wanted to ask you what
you about this comparison met um so in alchemy right
way back in the dark ages, right them the weird
hippie uh cultish father of chemistry, alchemy, people were conducting
(16:14):
experiments to see what would happen to try to create
life with a homolocus or it might pronounce that yes,
and trying to explain magic in some ways, trying to
change everything into gold and all that kind of stuff.
Um And in most cases these alchemists did not discover
(16:39):
what they thought they were discovering, but they discovered other
things because they were curious and they didn't mind getting
their hands a little dirty and gold leafed. Right. No, really, Ben,
we really just need more curiosity, I think, yeah, exactly.
So they discovered things not necessarily what they meant to discover,
but they did find valuable innovations because they were curious
(17:03):
and they were attempting to be methodical. I think the
same thing could happen here. I mean, history is lousy
with examples of people who accidentally discovered something while they
were doing something else, Like the guy who invented the
microwave didn't mean to cook food with it. That chocolate
bar just melted. Yeah, exactly. And we have just a
(17:28):
small inkling of what is actually being discovered. And we
know we bring up the active denial system right in
in our video and uh, it's it's freaky, it's a
pain ray. Uh. We still don't know what Russia might
have on the other side. And it's strange that governments
(17:52):
could change but the same documents would remain classified, isn't it.
And essentially it's so weird to me the idea that
a government would change, but your your armed forces are
going to be fairly similar unless they're involved in whatever
whatever uprising occurs to change the government if an uprising occurs.
(18:14):
So if the KGB just took over, yeah, it's really
interesting with thinking about Sorry, my brain just went somewhere
completely different, but just the changing of guard between different governments. Um,
how much of that underlying research or that underlying UM
technology would still exist? And I would say that it
(18:35):
probably would. Oh yeah, we well we know that, uh,
we know that in the case of nuclear technology, um,
there were proliferating nukes and know how that we're spreading
around as NATO and Russia self work to stop the
transmission of those UM worked finger quotes stop finger quotes,
(18:59):
but you know they made the plight noises. We wanted
to let everybody know that there's a there's this great
document that we read Unconventional Research in USS are in
Russia A short overview. It's free online right now. You
can just go and google it. The author's name is
Serge Kernbach, that's S. E. R G E. And in
(19:22):
this document you will find a list of the stuff
that we know they tried, a list of the funding
and some of the notable scientists. Um, that's where the
rabbit hole begins. That's the ground surface. You can find
much more interesting stuff in. My favorite part about that
article are the pictures. Yeah, because that's what I deal with,
(19:44):
and I was able to use a bunch of them
in our episode. Yeah. But we're able to find the
serpan exactly. Um, And we want your thoughts on this.
Do you think that government's continue psychic research? Do you
think it was a big financial boom doggle and people
are just paranoid. Do you think that you have evidence
of psychic powers? Because if it checks out, we'll hope
(20:07):
you win that million dollars. Um. But what we should
also put up a link on our on our website
that has uh has some more information about the James
Randy Prize. I have a blog post about it from earlier,
so you can check it out there. Um. And the
very last thing I have to do, Matt, could I
read you some listener mail? Oh? Please do? He says, Hey,
(20:35):
Ben and Matt, my name's Hugh. First off, I want
to thank you for providing a superlative source of irudition
regarding stuff they don't want you to know, nice prodigious
appropriation for the wide range of topics addressed, as well
as the obvious in depth research conducted. Uh that was interesting. Well, yeah,
thanks for stepping it up vocabulary wise, there are you. Secondly,
(20:55):
I wonder if you'd be interested in covering their knowing
complicity IBM played in the nihilation of millions of Nazi
concentration camp prisoners during World War Two. Now, this is
something that you and I have talked about before, right Matt, Yes,
yes we have, and uh, it's a It's another one
of those heavy subjects. But I'm interested as much as
(21:17):
you is. I'd like to tackle it as well. I
think it's a great suggestion. Hugh calls it a slam
dunk topic at the risk of being bromtic, and he's
got some great citations here about books written UH many
by Edwin Black Um. One that might be interesting to
you listeners out there IBM in the holocaust of the
(21:38):
strategic alliance between Nazi Germany America's most powerful corporation. Now,
one thing that we do know about this is that
the um the role of private corporations in the rise
of the Nazi Party is an ugly part of history.
That is also completely true. Also, though there were merit,
there were American sympathizers with the Nazi Party who weren't
(22:02):
just in in um highly placed influential positions of corporations,
but we're also active politicians with popular support. UM. Now,
of course, to be completely fair, in many cases, especially
a lot of politicians cases, they had no idea what
the Nazi Party was going to become and later go
(22:22):
on to do. But this is an interesting topic and
we love digging into the historical stuff. They don't want
you to know. How what do you think, mat should
we check it out? I think we we should. And
we're coming right off the heels of talking about the
eugenics programs that some Americans, with the help of some
moneyed interests like basically set up in parts of Europe,
(22:44):
including Germany. Oh yeah, that's an interesting detail. For everyone
who hasn't seen our introduction video on eugenics in America,
wole nice, I can't think of a better way to
uh in this show here. Please check us out on iTunes.
If you listen to to our podcast via iTunes, help
us out and give us a rating if you're feeling charitable.
(23:06):
Uh so that we can continue doing this podcast as
well as our video show Matt. Where can people find us?
You can always find us on Facebook and Twitter. We
are at conspiracy stuff on both of those and that's
the end of this classic episode. If you have any
thoughts or questions about this episode, you can get into
(23:28):
contact with us in a number of different ways. One
of the best is to give us a call. Our
number is one eight three three std w y t K.
If you don't want to do that, you can send
us a good old fashioned email. We are conspiracy at
i heart radio dot com. Stuff they Don't Want you
to Know is a production of I heart Radio. For
(23:48):
more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the i heart
Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your
favorite shows.
In this week's classic episode, we would like to present
to you a very strange story that is at least
partially true. And there's a story of a conspiracy halfway
around the world, conspiracy that takes place in the darkest
depths of classified institutions throughout the U. S. S R.
(00:25):
If you're a longtime listener to the show, then you
have doubtlessly heard of the United States program known as
MK Ultra, and you've read any number of books, You've
seen any number of documentaries about the us IS classified
experiments with things like allegations of esp or psychic powers.
(00:49):
But did you know that the U. S s R
had its own program and so in form of paraspsychological
research they called the psycho tronics, And like the US,
they experimented in this field for a number of years.
In fact, the some version of the Soviet era program
(01:15):
continued until two thousand and three, at least officially. In
today's Classic, we dive deep into the strange, twisted story
of psychotronics from UFOs two, ghosts and government cover ups.
History is writtled with unexplained events. You can turn back
(01:36):
now or learn the stuff they don't want you to now. Hello, everyone,
and welcome back to the show. My name is Matt
the theyve been Actually, my real name is Ben, and
I promise I won't do that accent anymore. Uh, Matt,
(01:57):
I can always tell when things are about to get
serious on our show, whether it's our video or audio,
because you've got the E. You've got the E smoke going.
Oh yeah, yeah, sorry about that. No, it's cool. It
reminds me of the caterpillar in Alice in Wonderlands. Oh wow,
that's the look. I'm going for. Caterpillar with a hookah?
(02:18):
Is that the That's that explains so much about our
profile picks that we've been working on. Uh, we are
talking today about two of my favorite subjects, government secrets
and the search for psychic powers or just fringe science. Right,
we're fans of that, Yes, anything on the fringe. You
(02:40):
and I grew up loving The X Files, loving Twilight Zone,
Outer Limits. Yeah, we even sat through a couple of
the downer seasons of Fringe. Yeah it happened, it was.
I'm on the fifth season, by the way, you should know.
How are you still watching it? Yeah? I kin't finished it. Okay, well,
please don't spoil it. I won't tell me. Hey, you
(03:03):
know what, the writers did a good, good enough job
spoiling fresh help. Don't tell me that. Oh no, I'm kidding.
It's it's one man's opinion. But when we are talking
about these things, we naturally go to one of the
coolest subjects we've talked about in a while, which was
(03:26):
the Soviet version of m k Ultra. I mean, that's
what we called on the show, right, Yeah, Well, it's
also the Soviet version of Project Stargate. Yeah, it's it's
got a lot of similarities to the weirdness that our
own the US government was doing. Now, what was Project Stargate.
Project Stargate was basically, again trying to make psychic soldiers
in the US, trying to figure out a way to
(03:48):
unlock this weird mind body connection that was considered pseudoscience
by even a lot of people who were doing it.
But but they wanted to make sure that it wasn't real,
you know, So that perhaps we talked about in the
episode that if if it is real and we just
aren't spending the money to research it and one of
our enemies does, then we're in a whole heap of trouble. Yeah,
(04:11):
And when we when we're talking about psychic powers, I
don't know about you, guys, I like specifics. We're specifically
talking about UM. One of one of the biggest things
they researched on the u S side was out of
body experience. Is it possible to train people to train
soldiers or intelligence operatives to travel remotely and to somehow
(04:36):
perceive things thousands of kilometers away? Yeah, remote viewing man,
that was one of the biggest pushes. Yeah, that's the
term remote viewing. Ingo Swan one of the biggest guys
in this UM and I used to when I was
a kid. I had those Time Life mystery books that
talked about Ingo Swan at length. And it's interesting because
(04:57):
Swan maintains that he really has a legitimate ability to
do this, and other people have worked with him have
argued the same thing, but not all of them, And
quite a few people have said, well, the reason that
this was shut down is because ultimately we just found
(05:17):
out that there was no real ability to do this,
or that even if this ability existed, it was not
applicable or useful. Yeah, and it wasn't accurate enough, right,
which is kind of what UM sony was. It Sony
kind of Sony said, when they shut down, there's their
(05:38):
ESP program. Yep, true story, you guys, Sony had an
ESP program. That's the story for another day, and they
used it in in all of their CD technologies. As
we see, it's crazy it actually says ESP on there
you remember that having that No, that's perfect. Yeah, it's
a good point because it's it's uh, it's range. We
(06:01):
that's one of the things that you and I didn't
believe when we first started reading it. We were convinced
that ESP stood for some other acronym, you know, like
Electronic Sound provider or something like that. Yeah, but this
this one was a real ESP program, and the US
(06:22):
of course had them as well. Uh, the Soviet ideas
were very different. Um. Now, a lot of this that
comes to us comes from recently to classify documents, and
they are just the the tip of a red iceberg here. Huh.
I know, but they are. I just I wrote it
(06:44):
down earlier, so I wanted to try it out. But
these these programs, um if the information we're getting can
be trusted, began in nineteen seventeen, which is the year
of the Russian Revolution, so it predates the US US
are and that's interesting to continue to two thousand three officially,
(07:05):
which is even more interesting to me. And they did
research in a different way. Their research was meant to
be a little more quantitative rather than qualitative, right, so
they measured the UM. They they wanted to walk away
with concrete numbers and compare and compile and analyze, uh,
(07:30):
these pieces of data so that they could figure out
if there was really something going on. And a lot
of their experiments focused not so much on remote viewing
as they did on UM. The idea of electro magnetic
or electrochemical fields. Yeah, yeah, exactly. That it's that that
(07:52):
free energy that's been searched for since we figure since
man has figured out that there is energy or there's
some kind of ectricity or power that you can harness
in the environment, and there's so many people who have
looked for it and failed to find it, at least
in my opinion, Tesla arguing, yeah, and uh, we we
(08:15):
know that the we know that the governments of the
time in the USSR was on board with a lot
of this stuff. And you can see some fascinating photographs
of devices that people have built with the idea that
they would harness this energy through things called serpan um
(08:35):
strange looking things. They look like thermos is almost Yeah.
They handles their cylindrical with these handles, don't know. Some
of them were strapped two people. Some of them were
simply held, uh. The idea being that if all living
things emanate this field in some way, then we could
(08:57):
build something that would aggregate and apply or direct this energy.
And they were directing it with the with the hope
of doing things like, um, having plants grow faster was one.
Producing neurological effects, so having someone's brain function be affected
(09:22):
in some way, which is frighteningly vague. Yeah, I know, yeah,
oh man, but that that would be great if you
could somehow really send out in an enhancing intelligence ray
with some device that was strapped onto you. I guess
you need a group of people and if it worked
the way they thought it would work, right, Yeah, they
did think it was a cumulative effect. Um. But they
(09:43):
also they also focused on you know, this was one
of their most interesting areas of focus and something that
the US wasn't really focused on. They also used these
torsion generators. We do have to point out that the Russians,
or rather the Soviets at this time did have UH
psychics that they would conduct tests on, and those tests
(10:06):
would be some of the same stuff we hear in
the United States, you know. Uh, the idea of whether
or not clairvoyance existed, which was not proven satisfactorily. The
idea whether or not there would be UM an ability
to predict the future. It's also not proven very well.
Uh telekinesis, which as much as I wanted to be real,
was not proven. Um. Again, if you believe that any
(10:28):
of those things truly are real right now listening to
this podcast, um. And I don't mean to sound like
an extreme skeptic, because I'm certainly not. As soon as
I have evidence that shows me that any of those
things are real, I'm down because I I want to believe,
just like the old X Files. But you should really
talk to or listen to James Randy because the guy
(10:50):
makes some really great points just about how he's offering
craploads of money to anybody that can prove this stuff.
Oh that's right, Yes, the famous one million dollars for
proof of any UH psychic, parapsychological or paranormal phenomenon by
James Randy and it's a little bit controversial. In fact,
(11:10):
I'd like to do a podcast on that maybe in
the future. I'm gonna be totally honest with you, though
this is a part where we might differ. I think
that it is quite possible that in the future we
will come to understand a scientific explanation or what we
(11:31):
perceive um occasionally to be psychic powers. I don't know
what I don't. I don't think somebody's gonna go, oh,
telekinesis is real and we just discovered it in I
think that's preposterous, but could be some kind of fourth
dimensional time distortion. Right. We understand so little about the
(11:51):
nature of consciousness, the nature of physics, especially at a
very small and very large level that we are we
we don't even we don't even have gravity figured out.
I mean, if you think about the potential span of
human history, my friend, we are still in the dark ages.
So I think I'm gonna be a little more optimistic
(12:13):
about it. We don't we don't have the tools yet
to discover the explanations behind a lot of these things
UM or the explanations behind a lot of these reports.
We do know that there are quite a few mundane
things that can explain stuff like the feeling of deja
vu has a fairly there's a fairly solid theory of
(12:34):
what happens in our brain that makes us perceive that. Right.
They didn't have this when they were doing a lot
of these Cold War experiments, right, and Uh, they had
some enemies. We talked about the Academy of Russian Scientists
hated these programs because they, you know, this was centralized funding.
(12:54):
So they said, you government are taking funding for real
science and applying it to pseudo science. Right. But there's
a I think there was a bit of cynicism in
some of these programs. We do know that the Soviets
also sent people to uh Shangra Law to out to
(13:17):
search the the steps and and uh comb through Tibet
for um. I think propaganda purposes more than anything else.
I don't think they were really out to discover some
ancient secrets so much as they were to discover some
brilliant marketing. Yeah. That would have been just a little
icing on the cake if they had actually discovered something crazy. Yeah,
(13:39):
And there's an interesting part here when we talk about this, uh,
when we talk about what they did discover, because here's
the weird part. We don't know, I don't have any idea,
isn't that always? Man? That is the case so often
with us, just because we there's so much information that's
withheld uh from everyone that we kind of get up
(14:02):
against this wall. And just for if you're a new
listener perhaps to the show, we really trying to not
speculate as much as give you the information that is
there and then you know, go maybe a couple inches
over that line, just to let you know what we think.
There's uh yeah. And in this respect, there are some
(14:23):
things that we can say about Russian UM or Soviet
research in these fields. We know that, for instance, we
know that both a former defense minister and uh Putin
himself have talked about the future of unconventional weapons. We
also know that in the West research on these directed
(14:46):
energy weapons UH is occurring. We know that the technology
exists to give people the sensation that they are hearing voices,
which is freaky, right. You have me to that one
man that gives me not We we know it's it's
fairly obvious that the actual bleeding edge or cutting edge
(15:08):
of technology is several years at minimum ahead of what
the public thinks it is. Like one of the latest
revelations that just came out, which will be a few
weeks old now when this publishes, which we posted to
our Facebook earlier today, was that the n s A
doesn't need an Internet connection to hack a computer anymore.
It just needs a radio signal, just needs a radio
(15:30):
wave and a little gadget about the size of a
briefcase that some unsuspecting dude is carrying around. Oh but
don't worry, it's not in the United States, right, Sorry
everybody else. Yeah, but the but the point we're making
is that it is completely possible that some of this
(15:51):
fringe research into really crazy stuff lead to applicable results.
I like the comparison. I wanted to ask you what
you about this comparison met um so in alchemy right
way back in the dark ages, right them the weird
hippie uh cultish father of chemistry, alchemy, people were conducting
(16:14):
experiments to see what would happen to try to create
life with a homolocus or it might pronounce that yes,
and trying to explain magic in some ways, trying to
change everything into gold and all that kind of stuff.
Um And in most cases these alchemists did not discover
(16:39):
what they thought they were discovering, but they discovered other
things because they were curious and they didn't mind getting
their hands a little dirty and gold leafed. Right. No, really, Ben,
we really just need more curiosity, I think, yeah, exactly.
So they discovered things not necessarily what they meant to discover,
but they did find valuable innovations because they were curious
(17:03):
and they were attempting to be methodical. I think the
same thing could happen here. I mean, history is lousy
with examples of people who accidentally discovered something while they
were doing something else, Like the guy who invented the
microwave didn't mean to cook food with it. That chocolate
bar just melted. Yeah, exactly. And we have just a
(17:28):
small inkling of what is actually being discovered. And we
know we bring up the active denial system right in
in our video and uh, it's it's freaky, it's a
pain ray. Uh. We still don't know what Russia might
have on the other side. And it's strange that governments
(17:52):
could change but the same documents would remain classified, isn't it.
And essentially it's so weird to me the idea that
a government would change, but your your armed forces are
going to be fairly similar unless they're involved in whatever
whatever uprising occurs to change the government if an uprising occurs.
(18:14):
So if the KGB just took over, yeah, it's really
interesting with thinking about Sorry, my brain just went somewhere
completely different, but just the changing of guard between different governments. Um,
how much of that underlying research or that underlying UM
technology would still exist? And I would say that it
(18:35):
probably would. Oh yeah, we well we know that, uh,
we know that in the case of nuclear technology, um,
there were proliferating nukes and know how that we're spreading
around as NATO and Russia self work to stop the
transmission of those UM worked finger quotes stop finger quotes,
(18:59):
but you know they made the plight noises. We wanted
to let everybody know that there's a there's this great
document that we read Unconventional Research in USS are in
Russia A short overview. It's free online right now. You
can just go and google it. The author's name is
Serge Kernbach, that's S. E. R G E. And in
(19:22):
this document you will find a list of the stuff
that we know they tried, a list of the funding
and some of the notable scientists. Um, that's where the
rabbit hole begins. That's the ground surface. You can find
much more interesting stuff in. My favorite part about that
article are the pictures. Yeah, because that's what I deal with,
(19:44):
and I was able to use a bunch of them
in our episode. Yeah. But we're able to find the
serpan exactly. Um, And we want your thoughts on this.
Do you think that government's continue psychic research? Do you
think it was a big financial boom doggle and people
are just paranoid. Do you think that you have evidence
of psychic powers? Because if it checks out, we'll hope
(20:07):
you win that million dollars. Um. But what we should
also put up a link on our on our website
that has uh has some more information about the James
Randy Prize. I have a blog post about it from earlier,
so you can check it out there. Um. And the
very last thing I have to do, Matt, could I
read you some listener mail? Oh? Please do? He says, Hey,
(20:35):
Ben and Matt, my name's Hugh. First off, I want
to thank you for providing a superlative source of irudition
regarding stuff they don't want you to know, nice prodigious
appropriation for the wide range of topics addressed, as well
as the obvious in depth research conducted. Uh that was interesting. Well, yeah,
thanks for stepping it up vocabulary wise, there are you. Secondly,
(20:55):
I wonder if you'd be interested in covering their knowing
complicity IBM played in the nihilation of millions of Nazi
concentration camp prisoners during World War Two. Now, this is
something that you and I have talked about before, right Matt, Yes,
yes we have, and uh, it's a It's another one
of those heavy subjects. But I'm interested as much as
(21:17):
you is. I'd like to tackle it as well. I
think it's a great suggestion. Hugh calls it a slam
dunk topic at the risk of being bromtic, and he's
got some great citations here about books written UH many
by Edwin Black Um. One that might be interesting to
you listeners out there IBM in the holocaust of the
(21:38):
strategic alliance between Nazi Germany America's most powerful corporation. Now,
one thing that we do know about this is that
the um the role of private corporations in the rise
of the Nazi Party is an ugly part of history.
That is also completely true. Also, though there were merit,
there were American sympathizers with the Nazi Party who weren't
(22:02):
just in in um highly placed influential positions of corporations,
but we're also active politicians with popular support. UM. Now,
of course, to be completely fair, in many cases, especially
a lot of politicians cases, they had no idea what
the Nazi Party was going to become and later go
(22:22):
on to do. But this is an interesting topic and
we love digging into the historical stuff. They don't want
you to know. How what do you think, mat should
we check it out? I think we we should. And
we're coming right off the heels of talking about the
eugenics programs that some Americans, with the help of some
moneyed interests like basically set up in parts of Europe,
(22:44):
including Germany. Oh yeah, that's an interesting detail. For everyone
who hasn't seen our introduction video on eugenics in America,
wole nice, I can't think of a better way to
uh in this show here. Please check us out on iTunes.
If you listen to to our podcast via iTunes, help
us out and give us a rating if you're feeling charitable.
(23:06):
Uh so that we can continue doing this podcast as
well as our video show Matt. Where can people find us?
You can always find us on Facebook and Twitter. We
are at conspiracy stuff on both of those and that's
the end of this classic episode. If you have any
thoughts or questions about this episode, you can get into
(23:28):
contact with us in a number of different ways. One
of the best is to give us a call. Our
number is one eight three three std w y t K.
If you don't want to do that, you can send
us a good old fashioned email. We are conspiracy at
i heart radio dot com. Stuff they Don't Want you
to Know is a production of I heart Radio. For
(23:48):
more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the i heart
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