October 24, 2014 • 32 mins
Sure, cults are weird. The doomsday prophecies, claims of superpowers and tendency toward brainwashing are all strange, but what if the situation got even weirder? What if intelligence agencies were secretly involved with everything from the Manson family to the People's Temple and more? Tune in to learn more.
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
From UFOs two, ghosts and government cover ups. History is
riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or
learn the stuff they don't want you to now. Wa
wa wa. Welcome back to the show everyone, Wa. This
(00:24):
is stuff they don't want you to know. I'm Matt
and I'm Ben. Welcome back guys today. It's getting exciting.
You know, listeners can't see this right now, Matt, but
you have a you have a weird grin on an
air of mischief about and perhaps it's just the most
(00:45):
wonderful time of the year, which is what you want
to call Halloween on this show. Or maybe you got
something up your sleeves there. Maybe every time salmon comes around.
I feel a little bit that way us the correct pronunciation,
which we learned the hard way. Yes, uh, listeners out
(01:06):
there who also watch our videos, you know that Ben
and I have tried our hand at starting one of
those what do you call them? Cults? Um it went
pretty well, it did. You can actually see some of
the results in a video series that we did. One
episode in particular wherein Matt, you as the cult leader,
have sent me out to proselytize our coworkers. Well, I
(01:30):
will say that I was not self appointed. Well, you know,
sometimes the Godhead just finds your right. So we we
do have a video where we take a satirical look
at some of the some of the operations that cults. You,
some of the techniques would be a better work, right,
How occult begins, right, and how a cult grows, and
(01:53):
how it maintains loyalty, ideology and pushes people into increasingly
unusual decisions. Right. Sure, And Uh, you know, if if
you work in uh the law, or if you work
with logistics, then you're well aware of decision trees and
how with a little bit of forethought and with some
(02:15):
careful puppet stringing, you can place people, uh, very easily
into a situation that they would have never ever in
a million years thought they would do. And which brings
us to our next side of the story here. And
what's that meant? Well, we're asking an interesting question here today.
(02:37):
Do intelligence agencies run cults? Uh? What an interesting question? Yeah,
fascinating even now in the United States. When we say
intelligence agencies, we're talking specifically in this sense about things
like the FBI and the CIA, the Federal Bureau of Investigation,
Central Intelligence Agency, and we know that these Alphabet agencies,
(03:01):
specifically those two and also the n s A and
several other of them, they are actively monitoring groups, all
kinds of individuals that they consider to be let's say,
possible threats to the national security. Can you guys hear
the finger quotations we just put around that the air quotes.
That's because national security is often vaguely defined and increasingly so.
(03:25):
So just for examples. Uh, what what's something that these
agencies would monitor. One that you are probably aware of
is the occupy movement that happened several years ago and
is still ongoing today. Um. You can look, there's um
a Guardian article that we looked at about how the
FBI coordinated the entire crackdown, well not the entire but
(03:48):
a large portion of the crackdown on the occupy movement. Um,
and that's by Naomi Wolf. You can check that out. Yeah,
we've got a quotation here. Part of this that we
pulled from this article for you guys to hear is uh.
In this article in the Guardian, Naomi Wolf talks about
the documents that emerged showing how closely the alphabet agencies
(04:10):
and private sector entities cooperated sometimes merging into a single
entity known as the Domestic Security Alliance Counsel. Here's a
quote and reveals this merge entity to have one centrally planned,
locally executed mission. The documents and short show the cops
and Department of Homeland Security working for and with banks
(04:31):
to target arrest and politically disabled peaceful American citizens. That
really happened, Yeah, yeah, yep, And we know that that's
not the first time it happened. We know that throughout
US history, other groups have been civilian groups, mind you,
have been monitored by the FBI in particular, but also
(04:53):
other government agencies, and the FBI in particular because it's
within the United States. That's why they're the agency looking
at it. And we've looked at this before with coent
tel Pro. When you look at the way that they
handled the FBI handled u MLK Martin Luther King Jr.
And how like how they monitored his phone calls, They
(05:15):
watched all of it, like all kinds of just spying
on this guy, went through his mail, yeah, manipulating sending
him threats. Very interesting and scary. Then you've also got
the Southern Christian Leadership Conference, right, Yeah, the s c LC,
as well as m OKA and other members affiliated. Both
(05:35):
individuals and groups affiliated with the civil rights movement were
aggressively monitored and targeted. But they weren't the only ones.
There was also what would be called the New Left
or people pushing for Irish independence, an exile group called
Cuban Power uh, and people fighting for Puerto ricandependence and
so on. It even gets a little bit crazier than that.
(05:55):
We're talking about monitoring, right, Yeah, groups that you would
not think would be monitored and try me really okay. Vegetarians, Oh,
the isis of restaurants. Huh. They're dangerous, man, more dangerous
than you could ever know. Also environmentalists, and I can
see the angle with environmentalists because there is the uh
(06:19):
I don't I forget the term for eco terrorism? Yeah, um,
I mean that does exist, That is a real thing.
But vegetarians, I'm trying to think if maybe there's an
angle for on Santo to get involved. I wonder that's
not a bad question. We have a we have an
interesting story to point you toward. Check out the story
(06:40):
of an informant named Anna, and Anna was asked to
infiltrate things like vegan potlucks looking for eco terrorists, people
who would be a threat to h quote unquote national security. Right.
I watched recently a movie on HBO. I believe it
is called The East. I think that's what it's called.
(07:03):
How about eco terrorists and this other independent agency that
sends people to infiltrate them? And I wonder where some
of maybe the story of Anna comes into play. Yeah, Now,
from what we understand, the informant Anna is came forward
because this person may or may not be female, but
(07:24):
clearly I think it's female. Uh, this person is disillusioned
with the strategies used by domestic intelligence agencies. If you
haven't checked it out yet, checked out our video about
whether the what whether these guys are on the up
(07:44):
and up and obeying the law when they do the
monetary and they certainly were not doing it during co
and tellpro which is why Congress changed some of the laws.
But how many of those laws got changed back A
little tidbit here in two thousand and two under the
Bush administration, some of those laws were rescinded in the
interest of, wait for it, national security. We better not
(08:09):
make that a drinking game, because somebody's going to get
alcohol poisoning um and you know this. We also know
that if we're just talking about monitoring a lot of
socialist leaning religious groups that were anti war, pacifist groups
have been targeted. In short, Matt, they could target pretty
much anyone they wanted. But did they actually infiltrate these groups? Well,
(08:35):
we're gonna find out really soon after a quick word
from one of our sponsors, and we're back and we
can answer this question. In the previous part of the podcast,
we talked about monitoring groups illegally, but now it's I'm
talking about something else, right, infiltration, Now that's another thing
(08:59):
that we've talked about several times video, But for this
we're talking about civilian groups and religious groups and how
the FBI has infiltrated them before. Right, Yes, infiltrated them,
but not just to infiltrate and surveil, not just infiltrate
as an informant. There's a line that they crossed. So
if our question is to intelligence agencies run cults, we
(09:22):
know that they have certainly influenced religions and you and
I know, of course, and listeners you know if you
watched for video on cults, that the division between a
religion and occult is a little bit gray. Just as
one person's terrorist is another person's freedom fighter, one person's
religion is another person's cult. So we know that the
(09:43):
FBI CIA have used informants to enter into Weather Underground,
which was a group active a few decades before our time. Listeners,
some of you may remember the days of Weather Underground.
We know that more recently and controversially, uh, the FBI
I has placed informants in mosques in the United States. Uh.
(10:05):
We covered this in our video. Is the FBI manufacturing terrorists?
Why do we use that title, Matt, Well, it's because
it has to do with entrapment in one way, and
then also sending informants in to try and rile up
a group. So in this guy's case, Craig Montiel, he
went into a mosque and while he was doing surveillance
(10:29):
on most of the people in one of these mosques,
he was also he was also talking to them about
jihad and trying to rile everybody up. And what they
did is they contacted Well, first of all, they've put
a restraining order. They said, don't come back here anymore.
This is not what Islam is about. Yeah, we are
(10:51):
not the people you're looking for. And then they also
called the FBI. Yeah, and they said, look, there's this
crazy guy who is trying to bomb aces and trying
to get members of our mosque in there, and he's
harassing people and the FBI. You know, I can't imagine
the phone call that happened between there when someone said,
(11:11):
someone said, yeah, there's this guy who is uh, we
got a report that there may be terrorist activity at
this mosque and who reported it the mosque and then
go okay, well, thank you for the call. They put
the phone down heavy sigh, They pick it up and
they ring and they go, Craig, the jig is up,
get out of there. I mean, but that that has
to be that that is such an important question, though,
(11:34):
and that goes to the question of infiltration versus running
or influencing occult because the the idea here that critics
of this would would site is just as you said,
matt entrapment, you know, exactly. And so let's let's look
at another place that they've infiltrated. Another topic that we've
(11:55):
covered heavily owned video recently are NGOs, non government organizations
and the c i A. And we we mentioned that
they send assets in to look at groups such as Oh,
I don't know, Peace Corps US aid, right, Yeah, there
are a lot of them, and it is sometimes with
(12:17):
the organization's understanding that they will be sending in an
informant or an asset, and sometimes it's without that understanding.
It's just what who knew that John Doe wasn't really
from every town Kansas. It's so weird to me. It happens,
you know, it happens. And it's also part of the
reason why we hear such a stink. When people who
(12:41):
are working for Western n GEO are detained in uh,
non Western country, often there's this implication, whether true or not,
and I think you have to go case by case
basis whether true or not, there's this implication from the
capturing country that these people were not you know, kids
(13:02):
work college kids working for the Peace Corps. They were
plants from the CIA or some other intelligence agency. I
can't imagine being in that position finding someone from an
NGO who's doing something extremely suspicious and they go, oh man, okay, uh,
this could be a CIA agent. Uh gotta handle this carefully. Yeah,
(13:25):
oh man, I see, Yeah, that's a really weird phone
call to get to and then they call the They
call the CIA. The guy goes, oh, what really, and
he hangs up. He says thank you, He hangs up
the phone, he lets out alongside, he picks it up,
dials the number and says Craig beautiful. As far as
(13:45):
we know, ladies and gentlemen, that did not actually happen.
But what does happen on a regular basis is that
foreign intelligence assets are also put in State Department in busses. Right.
We also know that there's very compelling evidence of c I,
A and FBI front companies and or dummy organizations, which
you and I covered in some our Gary web stuff. Right.
(14:07):
So these we airline companies with names that are just
so vague and boring, like Premier Executive Transportation Services. I
fell asleep just reading that out loud, uh, and intermountin aviation.
We also know that financial organizations also operate in foreign countries,
you know, a shell company for the purpose of funneling money.
(14:28):
So what does this all tell us? Well, to me,
it says that our initial question at the top perhaps
isn't all that crazy. Maybe a government agency or a
project really could involve some kind of front cult or
a dummy cult. Okay, So then let's go over some
(14:49):
of the illegal things, straight up illegal that the c
I A, n FBI, and or FBI have done proven. Yes,
oh okay, all right, um, let's see where to start.
There's a good one that I can think of. Okay,
hit me with your best shot. Almost started singing, MK ultra.
(15:13):
That's nothing to sing about, mk ultra. We've also done
some videos on that. Mk ultra, as you know, is
a blanket term for a series of related experiments which
involved everything from trying to create a real life Manchurian
candidate that would be brainwashed assassin on command two, uh,
(15:34):
seeing if LSD was a truth serum, and just looking
at how humans interact when they're on hallucinogens that way.
And I still think that one guy was assassinated. I
don't think Yeah, I don't think he just did acid
and jumped out of a window. Yeah. Again, that's my
(15:56):
personal opinion, folks. That is not that is not in
any way proven the official stories that he committed suicide. Yeah,
and he wouldn't. He wouldn't be the first or last
person to jump from a high building on some kind
of you know drug however, uh idee a lot of
force to propel yourself through glass. That's right, all right, Well, okay,
(16:17):
what uh what about the Tuskegee experiment right where a
group of people, I forget what state it was in,
but they were not given they were okay, they had syphilis,
but they were not treated, uh, to cure the syphilis.
They were just studied, right and given placebo medications. Uh.
(16:40):
These were African American men in a tremendously racist time
in the US past. I know a few of our
listeners will say, well, it's tremendously racist today, but uh,
that was very very openly institutionalized racism to the point
where it made it okay from a governmental standpoint to
experiment on these black men. And uh. While the us
(17:06):
IS official position is that the U S admits this
incident occurred over a very long period of time, but
they say that these guys started out with syphilis and
simply were not treated. However, other people, anecdotal reports of
people who were involved at the time, say that they
were given syphilis. Right. But we did we did a
(17:31):
correction when we first did that episode, and we came
back and we said, um, that according to the official
government standpoint, which I think is how we phrased it. Uh,
these people were not given syphilis. They had it already
and they were not treated, which is just as insidious
and unethical in my opinion. Wow. Oh yeah. And then
(17:52):
there's domestic chemical exposures. Speaking of that, that's proven as well,
so government agencies. We just go to the rooftops of
some poor neighborhoods and they did this more than once.
And uh, and chemicals, you know, to see what happened
to stimulate a widespread chemical exposure. Yeah, and just you know,
go to the local hospital and find out, well, who
(18:15):
came in with what, how many how did it manifest? Man?
Oh yeah, excuse me, listeners, I'm meant to say simulate,
not stimulate. I believe I misspoke there. Um. And of
course we know that warrantless snooping hand or surveillance is
I would say de facto illegal, but other people would
(18:38):
say it's the fact illegal, being that some of the
interpretations of the law remains secret because of national security.
Oh man, please don't be drunk right now. Yeah. Uh.
And then of course how could we go without mentioning,
uh side ops such as impersonating someone's identity, anonymous harassment,
(19:03):
smear campaigns, and all that other stuff. This would be
stuff like you mentioned earlier, Matt. What would they do
with Martin Luther King's mail? Oh, well, all kinds of
one things with his mail. Um, they would intercept the mail,
check it out, see what's in there, if there's anything juicy,
make copies of things, then put it back in the mail.
(19:24):
They would send him threats and things like that in
the mail. Um, they'd impersonate people. That's what it is.
They would impersonate, like let's say a letter from one
of his close contacts that was just seething and mad
at him or um. I think there was one instance
where they tried to initiate some kind of affair. Oh yeah,
(19:48):
I had heard. I have heard that story, but I
haven't looked it up myself. I don't mean to give
out false information. I hope I am not, but it's
in my in the back of my head somewhere. Well,
we do know the am okay did have affairs, sure,
so it's not out of the realm of possibility. Unfortunately.
Uh what speaking of the mail, it's time for a
break and we'll be back after we're from a sponsored
(20:14):
and we're back so so far. For a quick recap,
we have looked at We've looked at illegal things the
government agencies have done in the past. We have looked
at things that they're monitoring activities, We've looked at infiltration activities.
And now it's time to get to the real Here's
where it gets crazy part. Did a government agency ever
(20:37):
run occult? So here are some of the alleged examples been.
The first one is Jonestown. Now some people believe that
Jim Jones will We know that Jim Jones was running
a cult, the People's Temple, the People's Temple that moved
from several places. I can't remember the initial starting place,
(20:57):
but I know it moved to California, then to Guiana.
And the theory is that he was running a psychological
experiment of mind control on these people on behalf of
the CIA, or at least possibly related somehow to the CIA.
I see, and that that's an interesting idea which we
(21:20):
do explore in that video you mentioned earlier. Because the
People's Temple at the time was a bit unusual in
that it actively encouraged acceptance of all creeds and it
was a little bit left leaning, which would be otherwise
the kind of thing that the US government would have
closely monitored at that time for possible descent or a
(21:43):
threat to national security. Well, it's strange to me that
that it would still be. I guess the reason why
it was under CIA, or why it's thought to be
under CIA, is because they moved outside of the country
to Guiana, which was a country in the U S
sphere of influence, but I guess not officially inside the US,
(22:08):
so it wouldn't be FBI, right, Yeah, But also you know,
in the evolution of occult, they may have just moved
to a more isolated place to further cement the leader's
grip on people. They had guards, armed guards, increasingly militarized. Uh,
there were people who wanted to escape. There are some
(22:29):
huge unanswered questions to this day, which you and I
deal with in the videos, about how stuff went down,
how the congressman was killed, how the people were killed,
who committed suicide, reports of additional people or assets, even
working to UH sanitize the operation and then later painting
(22:54):
it as a suicide when it may have been instead,
as as the theorist would advance a assacre, uh, of
a psychop gone wrong psy op. Rather, I think I
think that's fascinating. At this point, the evidence that you
and I could find in there, while tantalizing, was far
(23:15):
from certain. Sure. And but there wasn't a CIA agent
who was working with Leo or was it is his
name Leo Ryan, the congressman. Congressman Leo Ryan. And then
there is Dwire And you can hear on the recording
right that Jim Jones are out of here, get Wire
out of here. Yeah, that is true. Um, but at
(23:37):
this point that while that is one of the most
popular theories for an intelligence agut running occult, it is
ultimately at this point it doesn't have solid proof yet.
It just has troubling unanswered questions. Um. Can I tell
you about one of my favorites. Oh, I love this one.
All right. Uh, this is the idea that scientology and
(23:59):
we're not calling scientology occult, so lawyers, please don't get mad.
This is a theory that Matt and I did not
make up, that the Church of Scientology is somehow run
by an intelligence agency. And this is this is actually
a theory that is kind of more well known in
(24:22):
the x scientologist community than it is in the mainstream. Uh,
never been a scientologist part of the world. Uh. And
the the idea here is that the current head of Scientology,
David Miskevige, is working for the FBI or the CIA,
that he is an asset. And you'll see ex scientologists
(24:42):
who say that they left the organization because Miskevige somehow
changed it. And um, you and I of course are
not scientologist, nor have we ever been. We have read
about scientology, but we've also always read about it from
the outside end. Sure, Uh, a little background. You hooked
us up with an excellent book that you lent to
(25:05):
me earlier, right, yes, going clear, and I already forgot
the author. But it's fantastic. It looks at it from
an investigative reporter angle. Um, on all these different angles
and the uh, the author allowed Scientology to go in
and make footnotes and comment on the entire book. Right. Yeah.
The book itself is on the up and up. It's
(25:28):
a great piece of journalism. It does not address this theory.
It's more about the evolution of society, but it does
show the change of the church in Scientology. When David
Miskevige took over. Right. Yeah, it just makes no claims
about this being anything other than a change in leadership. Right.
So it's it's a popular theory in a in a
(25:51):
small segment of the global population, but it's it's a
fascinating one, especially when we consider that the Church of
Scientology in the United States government had historically uh adversarial relationships. Yes,
again detailed in that book quite beautifully. You can also
check out our video operations snow White. We've got got
(26:15):
one other. Of course, we've got to save this guy,
good old Charlie Manson. Yep, maybe nothing good about him,
but he is certainly old. The idea is that Manson
was groomed by aspects are assets of the CIA to
perform mind control experiments in the field. Yes, that would
be a good place to do some and of course
(26:36):
in this point, at this point, apparently uh, Matt and
I believe that these the c i A scientists are
evil Germans. Yeah. I didn't want to do a uncent.
Oh no, no, no, that would probably that would probably
get us in some hot water. But we'll see what
We'll see what comes out of our cartoonish Indiana Jones
(26:57):
German accents. The the The idea here though, is fascinating
because this is one of those strings that when you
pull it unravels more and more and more stuff. So
we know that Charles Manson had some uh encounters with dianetics,
which was a precursor to scientology, during some of his
(27:18):
time in prison and during some of his time in
the hippie counter culture, when he also encountered a group
called uh was it's is it four pie? Or pie?
Is the alleged Ah, yeah, it's Pie not P two.
That's there, Okay, yes, yes, that's the one that David
Berkowitz talked about the Son of Sam killer and then
(27:40):
got his throat cut in prison. Everything used to speak again, right,
and there's uh, there's some I you know, I hate
to say it. I hate to say it, but there
is some really compelling evidence that the Son of Sam
did not act alone. Matt, that detective never gave up.
I think he's right. And uh, this this argument here, uh,
(28:05):
this goes into the idea that there was we first
found out about it with Son of Sam and Charles Manson,
but it ultimately expands into this idea that there is
some sort of serial killer cult or some sort of
um tacit agreement to turn a blind eye to certain
unethical experiments or criminal homicidal behavior. Now, of course, in
(28:32):
most cases, logically, it doesn't make sense to think that
so many people could keep that kind of secret, you
know what I mean, That's a one ordinary claim. Yeah,
but fascinating. But Ben, is this conspiracy theory or is
(28:52):
it conspiracy fact? Ah? Yes? Okay, Well here's the thing.
It's unlikely that and eligence group, at least ones we're
talking about again in the United States, would manufacture an
entire cult. Yeah, I'm trying to come up with any
idea of why you would manufacture an entire cult. To
(29:13):
what end would you do this? I'm I'm honestly not
sure unless you you know, unless you wanted a whole
colony of mansuring in candidates you just keep in tiny,
darkened rooms. But you know which I could understand. But
it would be so much easier to uh influence an
(29:34):
infiltrated cult than it would be you know what I mean. Right,
It's it's a lot more plausible that that would happen
because you again, if we take the standpoint of one
of these groups c I, R FBI infiltrating them and
keeping tabs on them. That makes perfect sense to me. UM,
(29:54):
controlling one ah, rising up the ranks and then controlling one, Now,
that's interesting. That's the angle that you and I would take. Yeah, uh,
not that we have considered that, but but we hope
that you guys have enjoyed this episode, and we hope
that we have provided uh enough fascinating things to to
(30:14):
get you going in different directions. And we want to
hear back from you when you come out of the
rabbit hole, especially Matt. I'd like to hear about this
sort of idea in other cultures and countries, like we
know that China has an adversarial relationship with the Fallongong culture,
which I'm probably mispronouncing. We know that UM, the church
(30:37):
and the state in many cases often clash and in
some cases they start to become synchronous. UM. We also
know that UM some quasi religious groups have been involved
heavily in government, like P two, which we earlier UM
I mentioned it in the wrong spot, but P two
in Italy deserves a mention right, which would be a
(31:01):
Freemason associated group, associated lodge that has a lot of things,
had a lot of fingers and a lot of Italian pies.
I guess they were running you know, they had an
undue influence, is what I'm saying. I get you, man,
So what do you think? Is there any one of
(31:22):
these topics that you've watched our videos? Maybe you want
us to go deeper into any of this? Do you
have any opinions about you know, whether or not you
think a cult is being infiltrated and then perhaps is
now run by the icy cold hands of the c
I nice, nice, imajury. I'm trying to go more Halloween
here and I'm not sure if it's being effective or not,
(31:43):
but you keep going with it. But right to us, guys. Yeah, yeah,
you can find us on Facebook. You can find us
on Twitter. We have a website called stuff they don't
want you to know where you can see let's see
all of our videos, all of our podcast Uh. You
occasionally to blog up there. Uh so check us out there.
And if you want to play magic with me, I'm
(32:04):
on mt G O and I go by conspiracy Stuff.
Check it out. Yeah, play a game with me. Come on,
and uh, ladies and gentlemen, my co host here is
serious about that. He will play magic the gathering with you.
If you want to write us an email, we would
love to hear your stories. We would love to hear
your suggestions for upcoming topics and your contributions. It's not
(32:26):
too late for our Halloween Extravaganza, which will be working
on over the over the next few days. UH. You
can send all of that to us at our email address.
We are conspiracy at how stuff works dot com. For
more on this topic another unexplained phenomenon, visit test tube
(32:46):
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From UFOs two, ghosts and government cover ups. History is
riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or
learn the stuff they don't want you to now. Wa
wa wa. Welcome back to the show everyone, Wa. This
(00:24):
is stuff they don't want you to know. I'm Matt
and I'm Ben. Welcome back guys today. It's getting exciting.
You know, listeners can't see this right now, Matt, but
you have a you have a weird grin on an
air of mischief about and perhaps it's just the most
(00:45):
wonderful time of the year, which is what you want
to call Halloween on this show. Or maybe you got
something up your sleeves there. Maybe every time salmon comes around.
I feel a little bit that way us the correct pronunciation,
which we learned the hard way. Yes, uh, listeners out
(01:06):
there who also watch our videos, you know that Ben
and I have tried our hand at starting one of
those what do you call them? Cults? Um it went
pretty well, it did. You can actually see some of
the results in a video series that we did. One
episode in particular wherein Matt, you as the cult leader,
have sent me out to proselytize our coworkers. Well, I
(01:30):
will say that I was not self appointed. Well, you know,
sometimes the Godhead just finds your right. So we we
do have a video where we take a satirical look
at some of the some of the operations that cults. You,
some of the techniques would be a better work, right,
How occult begins, right, and how a cult grows, and
(01:53):
how it maintains loyalty, ideology and pushes people into increasingly
unusual decisions. Right. Sure, And Uh, you know, if if
you work in uh the law, or if you work
with logistics, then you're well aware of decision trees and
how with a little bit of forethought and with some
(02:15):
careful puppet stringing, you can place people, uh, very easily
into a situation that they would have never ever in
a million years thought they would do. And which brings
us to our next side of the story here. And
what's that meant? Well, we're asking an interesting question here today.
(02:37):
Do intelligence agencies run cults? Uh? What an interesting question? Yeah,
fascinating even now in the United States. When we say
intelligence agencies, we're talking specifically in this sense about things
like the FBI and the CIA, the Federal Bureau of Investigation,
Central Intelligence Agency, and we know that these Alphabet agencies,
(03:01):
specifically those two and also the n s A and
several other of them, they are actively monitoring groups, all
kinds of individuals that they consider to be let's say,
possible threats to the national security. Can you guys hear
the finger quotations we just put around that the air quotes.
That's because national security is often vaguely defined and increasingly so.
(03:25):
So just for examples. Uh, what what's something that these
agencies would monitor. One that you are probably aware of
is the occupy movement that happened several years ago and
is still ongoing today. Um. You can look, there's um
a Guardian article that we looked at about how the
FBI coordinated the entire crackdown, well not the entire but
(03:48):
a large portion of the crackdown on the occupy movement. Um,
and that's by Naomi Wolf. You can check that out. Yeah,
we've got a quotation here. Part of this that we
pulled from this article for you guys to hear is uh.
In this article in the Guardian, Naomi Wolf talks about
the documents that emerged showing how closely the alphabet agencies
(04:10):
and private sector entities cooperated sometimes merging into a single
entity known as the Domestic Security Alliance Counsel. Here's a
quote and reveals this merge entity to have one centrally planned,
locally executed mission. The documents and short show the cops
and Department of Homeland Security working for and with banks
(04:31):
to target arrest and politically disabled peaceful American citizens. That
really happened, Yeah, yeah, yep, And we know that that's
not the first time it happened. We know that throughout
US history, other groups have been civilian groups, mind you,
have been monitored by the FBI in particular, but also
(04:53):
other government agencies, and the FBI in particular because it's
within the United States. That's why they're the agency looking
at it. And we've looked at this before with coent
tel Pro. When you look at the way that they
handled the FBI handled u MLK Martin Luther King Jr.
And how like how they monitored his phone calls, They
(05:15):
watched all of it, like all kinds of just spying
on this guy, went through his mail, yeah, manipulating sending
him threats. Very interesting and scary. Then you've also got
the Southern Christian Leadership Conference, right, Yeah, the s c LC,
as well as m OKA and other members affiliated. Both
(05:35):
individuals and groups affiliated with the civil rights movement were
aggressively monitored and targeted. But they weren't the only ones.
There was also what would be called the New Left
or people pushing for Irish independence, an exile group called
Cuban Power uh, and people fighting for Puerto ricandependence and
so on. It even gets a little bit crazier than that.
(05:55):
We're talking about monitoring, right, Yeah, groups that you would
not think would be monitored and try me really okay. Vegetarians, Oh,
the isis of restaurants. Huh. They're dangerous, man, more dangerous
than you could ever know. Also environmentalists, and I can
see the angle with environmentalists because there is the uh
(06:19):
I don't I forget the term for eco terrorism? Yeah, um,
I mean that does exist, That is a real thing.
But vegetarians, I'm trying to think if maybe there's an
angle for on Santo to get involved. I wonder that's
not a bad question. We have a we have an
interesting story to point you toward. Check out the story
(06:40):
of an informant named Anna, and Anna was asked to
infiltrate things like vegan potlucks looking for eco terrorists, people
who would be a threat to h quote unquote national security. Right.
I watched recently a movie on HBO. I believe it
is called The East. I think that's what it's called.
(07:03):
How about eco terrorists and this other independent agency that
sends people to infiltrate them? And I wonder where some
of maybe the story of Anna comes into play. Yeah, Now,
from what we understand, the informant Anna is came forward
because this person may or may not be female, but
(07:24):
clearly I think it's female. Uh, this person is disillusioned
with the strategies used by domestic intelligence agencies. If you
haven't checked it out yet, checked out our video about
whether the what whether these guys are on the up
(07:44):
and up and obeying the law when they do the
monetary and they certainly were not doing it during co
and tellpro which is why Congress changed some of the laws.
But how many of those laws got changed back A
little tidbit here in two thousand and two under the
Bush administration, some of those laws were rescinded in the
interest of, wait for it, national security. We better not
(08:09):
make that a drinking game, because somebody's going to get
alcohol poisoning um and you know this. We also know
that if we're just talking about monitoring a lot of
socialist leaning religious groups that were anti war, pacifist groups
have been targeted. In short, Matt, they could target pretty
much anyone they wanted. But did they actually infiltrate these groups? Well,
(08:35):
we're gonna find out really soon after a quick word
from one of our sponsors, and we're back and we
can answer this question. In the previous part of the podcast,
we talked about monitoring groups illegally, but now it's I'm
talking about something else, right, infiltration, Now that's another thing
(08:59):
that we've talked about several times video, But for this
we're talking about civilian groups and religious groups and how
the FBI has infiltrated them before. Right, Yes, infiltrated them,
but not just to infiltrate and surveil, not just infiltrate
as an informant. There's a line that they crossed. So
if our question is to intelligence agencies run cults, we
(09:22):
know that they have certainly influenced religions and you and
I know, of course, and listeners you know if you
watched for video on cults, that the division between a
religion and occult is a little bit gray. Just as
one person's terrorist is another person's freedom fighter, one person's
religion is another person's cult. So we know that the
(09:43):
FBI CIA have used informants to enter into Weather Underground,
which was a group active a few decades before our time. Listeners,
some of you may remember the days of Weather Underground.
We know that more recently and controversially, uh, the FBI
I has placed informants in mosques in the United States. Uh.
(10:05):
We covered this in our video. Is the FBI manufacturing terrorists?
Why do we use that title, Matt, Well, it's because
it has to do with entrapment in one way, and
then also sending informants in to try and rile up
a group. So in this guy's case, Craig Montiel, he
went into a mosque and while he was doing surveillance
(10:29):
on most of the people in one of these mosques,
he was also he was also talking to them about
jihad and trying to rile everybody up. And what they
did is they contacted Well, first of all, they've put
a restraining order. They said, don't come back here anymore.
This is not what Islam is about. Yeah, we are
(10:51):
not the people you're looking for. And then they also
called the FBI. Yeah, and they said, look, there's this
crazy guy who is trying to bomb aces and trying
to get members of our mosque in there, and he's
harassing people and the FBI. You know, I can't imagine
the phone call that happened between there when someone said,
(11:11):
someone said, yeah, there's this guy who is uh, we
got a report that there may be terrorist activity at
this mosque and who reported it the mosque and then
go okay, well, thank you for the call. They put
the phone down heavy sigh, They pick it up and
they ring and they go, Craig, the jig is up,
get out of there. I mean, but that that has
to be that that is such an important question, though,
(11:34):
and that goes to the question of infiltration versus running
or influencing occult because the the idea here that critics
of this would would site is just as you said,
matt entrapment, you know, exactly. And so let's let's look
at another place that they've infiltrated. Another topic that we've
(11:55):
covered heavily owned video recently are NGOs, non government organizations
and the c i A. And we we mentioned that
they send assets in to look at groups such as Oh,
I don't know, Peace Corps US aid, right, Yeah, there
are a lot of them, and it is sometimes with
(12:17):
the organization's understanding that they will be sending in an
informant or an asset, and sometimes it's without that understanding.
It's just what who knew that John Doe wasn't really
from every town Kansas. It's so weird to me. It happens,
you know, it happens. And it's also part of the
reason why we hear such a stink. When people who
(12:41):
are working for Western n GEO are detained in uh,
non Western country, often there's this implication, whether true or not,
and I think you have to go case by case
basis whether true or not, there's this implication from the
capturing country that these people were not you know, kids
(13:02):
work college kids working for the Peace Corps. They were
plants from the CIA or some other intelligence agency. I
can't imagine being in that position finding someone from an
NGO who's doing something extremely suspicious and they go, oh man, okay, uh,
this could be a CIA agent. Uh gotta handle this carefully. Yeah,
(13:25):
oh man, I see, Yeah, that's a really weird phone
call to get to and then they call the They
call the CIA. The guy goes, oh, what really, and
he hangs up. He says thank you, He hangs up
the phone, he lets out alongside, he picks it up,
dials the number and says Craig beautiful. As far as
(13:45):
we know, ladies and gentlemen, that did not actually happen.
But what does happen on a regular basis is that
foreign intelligence assets are also put in State Department in busses. Right.
We also know that there's very compelling evidence of c I,
A and FBI front companies and or dummy organizations, which
you and I covered in some our Gary web stuff. Right.
(14:07):
So these we airline companies with names that are just
so vague and boring, like Premier Executive Transportation Services. I
fell asleep just reading that out loud, uh, and intermountin aviation.
We also know that financial organizations also operate in foreign countries,
you know, a shell company for the purpose of funneling money.
(14:28):
So what does this all tell us? Well, to me,
it says that our initial question at the top perhaps
isn't all that crazy. Maybe a government agency or a
project really could involve some kind of front cult or
a dummy cult. Okay, So then let's go over some
(14:49):
of the illegal things, straight up illegal that the c
I A, n FBI, and or FBI have done proven. Yes,
oh okay, all right, um, let's see where to start.
There's a good one that I can think of. Okay,
hit me with your best shot. Almost started singing, MK ultra.
(15:13):
That's nothing to sing about, mk ultra. We've also done
some videos on that. Mk ultra, as you know, is
a blanket term for a series of related experiments which
involved everything from trying to create a real life Manchurian
candidate that would be brainwashed assassin on command two, uh,
(15:34):
seeing if LSD was a truth serum, and just looking
at how humans interact when they're on hallucinogens that way.
And I still think that one guy was assassinated. I
don't think Yeah, I don't think he just did acid
and jumped out of a window. Yeah. Again, that's my
(15:56):
personal opinion, folks. That is not that is not in
any way proven the official stories that he committed suicide. Yeah,
and he wouldn't. He wouldn't be the first or last
person to jump from a high building on some kind
of you know drug however, uh idee a lot of
force to propel yourself through glass. That's right, all right, Well, okay,
(16:17):
what uh what about the Tuskegee experiment right where a
group of people, I forget what state it was in,
but they were not given they were okay, they had syphilis,
but they were not treated, uh, to cure the syphilis.
They were just studied, right and given placebo medications. Uh.
(16:40):
These were African American men in a tremendously racist time
in the US past. I know a few of our
listeners will say, well, it's tremendously racist today, but uh,
that was very very openly institutionalized racism to the point
where it made it okay from a governmental standpoint to
experiment on these black men. And uh. While the us
(17:06):
IS official position is that the U S admits this
incident occurred over a very long period of time, but
they say that these guys started out with syphilis and
simply were not treated. However, other people, anecdotal reports of
people who were involved at the time, say that they
were given syphilis. Right. But we did we did a
(17:31):
correction when we first did that episode, and we came
back and we said, um, that according to the official
government standpoint, which I think is how we phrased it. Uh,
these people were not given syphilis. They had it already
and they were not treated, which is just as insidious
and unethical in my opinion. Wow. Oh yeah. And then
(17:52):
there's domestic chemical exposures. Speaking of that, that's proven as well,
so government agencies. We just go to the rooftops of
some poor neighborhoods and they did this more than once.
And uh, and chemicals, you know, to see what happened
to stimulate a widespread chemical exposure. Yeah, and just you know,
go to the local hospital and find out, well, who
(18:15):
came in with what, how many how did it manifest? Man?
Oh yeah, excuse me, listeners, I'm meant to say simulate,
not stimulate. I believe I misspoke there. Um. And of
course we know that warrantless snooping hand or surveillance is
I would say de facto illegal, but other people would
(18:38):
say it's the fact illegal, being that some of the
interpretations of the law remains secret because of national security.
Oh man, please don't be drunk right now. Yeah. Uh.
And then of course how could we go without mentioning,
uh side ops such as impersonating someone's identity, anonymous harassment,
(19:03):
smear campaigns, and all that other stuff. This would be
stuff like you mentioned earlier, Matt. What would they do
with Martin Luther King's mail? Oh, well, all kinds of
one things with his mail. Um, they would intercept the mail,
check it out, see what's in there, if there's anything juicy,
make copies of things, then put it back in the mail.
(19:24):
They would send him threats and things like that in
the mail. Um, they'd impersonate people. That's what it is.
They would impersonate, like let's say a letter from one
of his close contacts that was just seething and mad
at him or um. I think there was one instance
where they tried to initiate some kind of affair. Oh yeah,
(19:48):
I had heard. I have heard that story, but I
haven't looked it up myself. I don't mean to give
out false information. I hope I am not, but it's
in my in the back of my head somewhere. Well,
we do know the am okay did have affairs, sure,
so it's not out of the realm of possibility. Unfortunately.
Uh what speaking of the mail, it's time for a
break and we'll be back after we're from a sponsored
(20:14):
and we're back so so far. For a quick recap,
we have looked at We've looked at illegal things the
government agencies have done in the past. We have looked
at things that they're monitoring activities, We've looked at infiltration activities.
And now it's time to get to the real Here's
where it gets crazy part. Did a government agency ever
(20:37):
run occult? So here are some of the alleged examples been.
The first one is Jonestown. Now some people believe that
Jim Jones will We know that Jim Jones was running
a cult, the People's Temple, the People's Temple that moved
from several places. I can't remember the initial starting place,
(20:57):
but I know it moved to California, then to Guiana.
And the theory is that he was running a psychological
experiment of mind control on these people on behalf of
the CIA, or at least possibly related somehow to the CIA.
I see, and that that's an interesting idea which we
(21:20):
do explore in that video you mentioned earlier. Because the
People's Temple at the time was a bit unusual in
that it actively encouraged acceptance of all creeds and it
was a little bit left leaning, which would be otherwise
the kind of thing that the US government would have
closely monitored at that time for possible descent or a
(21:43):
threat to national security. Well, it's strange to me that
that it would still be. I guess the reason why
it was under CIA, or why it's thought to be
under CIA, is because they moved outside of the country
to Guiana, which was a country in the U S
sphere of influence, but I guess not officially inside the US,
(22:08):
so it wouldn't be FBI, right, Yeah, But also you know,
in the evolution of occult, they may have just moved
to a more isolated place to further cement the leader's
grip on people. They had guards, armed guards, increasingly militarized. Uh,
there were people who wanted to escape. There are some
(22:29):
huge unanswered questions to this day, which you and I
deal with in the videos, about how stuff went down,
how the congressman was killed, how the people were killed,
who committed suicide, reports of additional people or assets, even
working to UH sanitize the operation and then later painting
(22:54):
it as a suicide when it may have been instead,
as as the theorist would advance a assacre, uh, of
a psychop gone wrong psy op. Rather, I think I
think that's fascinating. At this point, the evidence that you
and I could find in there, while tantalizing, was far
(23:15):
from certain. Sure. And but there wasn't a CIA agent
who was working with Leo or was it is his
name Leo Ryan, the congressman. Congressman Leo Ryan. And then
there is Dwire And you can hear on the recording
right that Jim Jones are out of here, get Wire
out of here. Yeah, that is true. Um, but at
(23:37):
this point that while that is one of the most
popular theories for an intelligence agut running occult, it is
ultimately at this point it doesn't have solid proof yet.
It just has troubling unanswered questions. Um. Can I tell
you about one of my favorites. Oh, I love this one.
All right. Uh, this is the idea that scientology and
(23:59):
we're not calling scientology occult, so lawyers, please don't get mad.
This is a theory that Matt and I did not
make up, that the Church of Scientology is somehow run
by an intelligence agency. And this is this is actually
a theory that is kind of more well known in
(24:22):
the x scientologist community than it is in the mainstream. Uh,
never been a scientologist part of the world. Uh. And
the the idea here is that the current head of Scientology,
David Miskevige, is working for the FBI or the CIA,
that he is an asset. And you'll see ex scientologists
(24:42):
who say that they left the organization because Miskevige somehow
changed it. And um, you and I of course are
not scientologist, nor have we ever been. We have read
about scientology, but we've also always read about it from
the outside end. Sure, Uh, a little background. You hooked
us up with an excellent book that you lent to
(25:05):
me earlier, right, yes, going clear, and I already forgot
the author. But it's fantastic. It looks at it from
an investigative reporter angle. Um, on all these different angles
and the uh, the author allowed Scientology to go in
and make footnotes and comment on the entire book. Right. Yeah.
The book itself is on the up and up. It's
(25:28):
a great piece of journalism. It does not address this theory.
It's more about the evolution of society, but it does
show the change of the church in Scientology. When David
Miskevige took over. Right. Yeah, it just makes no claims
about this being anything other than a change in leadership. Right.
So it's it's a popular theory in a in a
(25:51):
small segment of the global population, but it's it's a
fascinating one, especially when we consider that the Church of
Scientology in the United States government had historically uh adversarial relationships. Yes,
again detailed in that book quite beautifully. You can also
check out our video operations snow White. We've got got
(26:15):
one other. Of course, we've got to save this guy,
good old Charlie Manson. Yep, maybe nothing good about him,
but he is certainly old. The idea is that Manson
was groomed by aspects are assets of the CIA to
perform mind control experiments in the field. Yes, that would
be a good place to do some and of course
(26:36):
in this point, at this point, apparently uh, Matt and
I believe that these the c i A scientists are
evil Germans. Yeah. I didn't want to do a uncent.
Oh no, no, no, that would probably that would probably
get us in some hot water. But we'll see what
We'll see what comes out of our cartoonish Indiana Jones
(26:57):
German accents. The the The idea here though, is fascinating
because this is one of those strings that when you
pull it unravels more and more and more stuff. So
we know that Charles Manson had some uh encounters with dianetics,
which was a precursor to scientology, during some of his
(27:18):
time in prison and during some of his time in
the hippie counter culture, when he also encountered a group
called uh was it's is it four pie? Or pie?
Is the alleged Ah, yeah, it's Pie not P two.
That's there, Okay, yes, yes, that's the one that David
Berkowitz talked about the Son of Sam killer and then
(27:40):
got his throat cut in prison. Everything used to speak again, right,
and there's uh, there's some I you know, I hate
to say it. I hate to say it, but there
is some really compelling evidence that the Son of Sam
did not act alone. Matt, that detective never gave up.
I think he's right. And uh, this this argument here, uh,
(28:05):
this goes into the idea that there was we first
found out about it with Son of Sam and Charles Manson,
but it ultimately expands into this idea that there is
some sort of serial killer cult or some sort of
um tacit agreement to turn a blind eye to certain
unethical experiments or criminal homicidal behavior. Now, of course, in
(28:32):
most cases, logically, it doesn't make sense to think that
so many people could keep that kind of secret, you
know what I mean, That's a one ordinary claim. Yeah,
but fascinating. But Ben, is this conspiracy theory or is
(28:52):
it conspiracy fact? Ah? Yes? Okay, Well here's the thing.
It's unlikely that and eligence group, at least ones we're
talking about again in the United States, would manufacture an
entire cult. Yeah, I'm trying to come up with any
idea of why you would manufacture an entire cult. To
(29:13):
what end would you do this? I'm I'm honestly not
sure unless you you know, unless you wanted a whole
colony of mansuring in candidates you just keep in tiny,
darkened rooms. But you know which I could understand. But
it would be so much easier to uh influence an
(29:34):
infiltrated cult than it would be you know what I mean. Right,
It's it's a lot more plausible that that would happen
because you again, if we take the standpoint of one
of these groups c I, R FBI infiltrating them and
keeping tabs on them. That makes perfect sense to me. UM,
(29:54):
controlling one ah, rising up the ranks and then controlling one, Now,
that's interesting. That's the angle that you and I would take. Yeah, uh,
not that we have considered that, but but we hope
that you guys have enjoyed this episode, and we hope
that we have provided uh enough fascinating things to to
(30:14):
get you going in different directions. And we want to
hear back from you when you come out of the
rabbit hole, especially Matt. I'd like to hear about this
sort of idea in other cultures and countries, like we
know that China has an adversarial relationship with the Fallongong culture,
which I'm probably mispronouncing. We know that UM, the church
(30:37):
and the state in many cases often clash and in
some cases they start to become synchronous. UM. We also
know that UM some quasi religious groups have been involved
heavily in government, like P two, which we earlier UM
I mentioned it in the wrong spot, but P two
in Italy deserves a mention right, which would be a
(31:01):
Freemason associated group, associated lodge that has a lot of things,
had a lot of fingers and a lot of Italian pies.
I guess they were running you know, they had an
undue influence, is what I'm saying. I get you, man,
So what do you think? Is there any one of
(31:22):
these topics that you've watched our videos? Maybe you want
us to go deeper into any of this? Do you
have any opinions about you know, whether or not you
think a cult is being infiltrated and then perhaps is
now run by the icy cold hands of the c
I nice, nice, imajury. I'm trying to go more Halloween
here and I'm not sure if it's being effective or not,
(31:43):
but you keep going with it. But right to us, guys. Yeah, yeah,
you can find us on Facebook. You can find us
on Twitter. We have a website called stuff they don't
want you to know where you can see let's see
all of our videos, all of our podcast Uh. You
occasionally to blog up there. Uh so check us out there.
And if you want to play magic with me, I'm
(32:04):
on mt G O and I go by conspiracy Stuff.
Check it out. Yeah, play a game with me. Come on,
and uh, ladies and gentlemen, my co host here is
serious about that. He will play magic the gathering with you.
If you want to write us an email, we would
love to hear your stories. We would love to hear
your suggestions for upcoming topics and your contributions. It's not
(32:26):
too late for our Halloween Extravaganza, which will be working
on over the over the next few days. UH. You
can send all of that to us at our email address.
We are conspiracy at how stuff works dot com. For
more on this topic another unexplained phenomenon, visit test tube
(32:46):
dot com slash conspiracy stuff. You can also get in
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