February 9, 2018 • 52 mins
For decades people knew that sexual abuse occurred in Tinseltown. It was an open, dirty secret just behind the curtain of the most popular films, tv and stage shows in the country. And the victims of abuse rarely spoke out -- when they did, they risked the ruination of their careers (or worse). In 2017 this began to change. World famous producer Harvey Weinstein was outed as a serial sexual and physical abuser, prompting his exile from his film company and encouraging numerous other victims of abuse to speak out. As the world wrestles with these revelations, more and more questions surface: Who knew what, and when? How far does this system go? And what happens next?
Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is
riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or
learn the stuff they don't want you to know. M Hello,
(00:25):
and welcome back to the show. My name is Matt,
my name is Paul. They call me Ben. We are
with our super producer Paul deck Ins. You are you,
and that makes this stuff they don't want you to know.
Today's episode will just cut straight to the chase. Is
about an epidemic in Hollywood that has existed for a
very very long time, longer uh than anyone listening to
(00:48):
the show today has been alive unless they are sent
more than a century overd uh. We're talking about the
epidemic of sexual abuse in Hollywood, as well as the
long running, active conspiracy to aid and abet the perpetrators
of these crimes while punishing, suppressing, blackballing, and dismissing their victims.
And that's the kicker here. This is the very definition
(01:11):
of a conspiracy. It's something that's been swept under the rug,
whether actively or just through in action, for decades, and
because there are powerful people involved who have connections in
places that would be important to have if you were
going to create a conspiracy such as this. And I
just want to say that for for me personally, and
I think you guys would probably agree, is I just
(01:33):
want to be an ally, um to folks that have
experienced this kind of abuse and discuss it in as
a matter of fact, away as possible, and put this
information out there for folks that maybe don't know the
depths of it. Um. But we are going to get
into some descriptions of some behavior that is both aberrant
and possibly triggering. So just warning you right now. Agreed
(01:57):
and well said, we want to cause san all listeners
that this episode does contain reports of abuse and may
not be suitable for all audiences. Additionally, we have over
the lifetime of this show, we have we have covered
things that may sound you know, silly or reverend, but
we consider this a moral imperative on our part. And uh,
(02:22):
it's no secret that Hollywood is by and large often
seen as a sleazy place. And although we always want
to avoid painting things with an overly broad brush, Tinseltown
has to a degree earned this reputation, a large degree. Yeah,
there's uh this thing you may have heard of called
the casting couch, and this is a tactic that's been
(02:45):
around for the past century. It's it's the practice where
a producer or director or someone who is high up
um in the industry, in the movie industry in particular,
will demand or perhaps even hint at sexual favers in
exchange for a role in a film or for even
a TV commercial or anything really um and they will
(03:08):
try and get these favors from aspiring actors. That's probably
the most vulnerable people who are hungry and getting into
the industry, as well as established well known actors who
are trying to reignite their career or something or even
just you know, go to the next level, you know,
in their career. Yeah. Absolutely, and not just actors, of course,
(03:30):
we're also talking about members of production crews. We're talking
about anyone that could be involved in this industry. And
that casting cow situation is so insidious because it almost
it doesn't require implicit requesting of of a sexual act
It doesn't you don't have to come out and say it.
It's a lot of it is implied with subtext, and
(03:52):
there is this underlying sense that if I don't do
this in one way or another, I am not going
to get this job, or I am to be mistreated
in some way or blacklisted. Yeah, that real fear of
being blacklisted is something that's that we're going to see
play out throughout the stories. Yeah, and it's a very
rational fear, because it does happen. It is most terrifyingly
(04:16):
happening to people as we sit in the studio today.
It's often said that some people will do almost anything
in the pursuit of fame and or power. But it's
also true that people who acquire massive amounts of fame
and power often have very little oversight regarding how they
choose to wield it. Yeah, we have an example here
(04:36):
from one of the strongest voices I think uh in
dealing with this subject, Amber Tamlin. She wrote in The
New York Times on September six. She says, for women
in America who come forward with stories of harassment, abuse,
and sexual assault, there are not two sides to every story.
However noble that principle might seem. Women do not get
(05:00):
to have a side. They get to have an interrogation.
Too often they are questioned mercilessly about whether their side
is legitimate, especially if that side happens to accuse a
man of stature, then that woman has to consider the
scrutiny and repercussions she'll be subjected to by sharing her side.
And of course we would be remiss if we did
(05:22):
not establish that this is not something that is solely
limited to women. Absolutely, but but very much the majority
of people experiencing this are women. And that power dynamic
that we're talking about is has a legacy, you know,
I mean of these you think about these executives, these
powerful male, kind of dominating figures that own the town,
(05:47):
and that has just been perpetuated over time. Absolutely, and abusers,
depending upon their position, were historically protected and currently protected
by powerful interests too often worked not only to keep
the story out of the press, but also to keep
these criminals out of jails where they inarguably belonged. The
(06:07):
situation appeared to change, or begin to change over the
course of twenty seventeen. Prominent performers and executives who were
once protected by this invisible system of power and influence
found their victims speaking out, fighting back, and the crimes
of these formerly untouchable individuals surface without suppression into the
public sphere. Today, we're exploring this phenomenon to see how
(06:32):
what was once most definitely the stuff Hollywood doesn't want
you to know, has finally gained mainstream recognition as the
dire epidemic that it is, and along the way will
investigate several specific cases. Yeah, we're gonna look at names
like Harvey Weinstein, which kind of kicked off this whole thing,
Bill Cosby, which was even before that that kind of
(06:54):
maybe led to that breaking point. It's interesting that Bill
Cosby sort of felt like his in case where it was,
you know, this very wholesome seeming man had done all
of these horrible things behind closed doors. But Weinstein really
cracked it open because he represents something else that that had.
It's I don't know Cosby too. I mean he was
(07:15):
a producer, He abused many people that were seeking to
work with him and for him. But for some reason,
when the Weinstein revelations came about, everyone started coming forward. Yeah,
it represented the the larger structure of Hollywood, and it's
not that much different with Louis c. K. He's another person.
We're gonna look at a producer and director and somebody
(07:36):
who's has a lot of control, and we're gonna look
at a lot more people as well, and We're also
going to briefly touch on the historical allegations, which were
again for decades somewhat ignored by the mainstream press and
at least a lot of times kept out of the
court system. I would say, even worse than a crime
of negligence or neglect on the part of the press
(07:58):
is the crime of the attacking. And we'll end on
some questions as well, not just who knew what and when,
and not just what Hollywood as a whole will do
in support of the victims, both unknown and known, but
we'll also ask what happens next, will anything actually permanently
significantly change? And here are the facts. As we record
(08:20):
this episode, over thirty prominent men from various entertainment industries
have been accused of sexual misconduct, harassment, assault, and rape.
We have specific examples from Hollywood, and perhaps we should
start with Harvey Weinstein. The allegations against Harvey Weinstein date
back decades. There are early reports We're talking very early,
(08:42):
all the way back to the nineteen seventies, and they
kind of continued bit by bit throughout the years. But
then in October of two thousand seventeen, the New York
Times published allegations of sexual harassment and assault against this
gentleman um and currently, as are recording this episode, there
around thirty prominent actors and over eighty women in total
(09:05):
who have come forward with reports of abuse or attempted
abuse at least by Harvey Weinstein. And Weinstein and his
brother Bob made names for themselves as head of the
Weinstein Company, and I believe they also owned Mirramax, and
you know, they kind of were an important force in
(09:26):
mainstreaming indie film. And I guess you could say you're
talking about everything from Kill Bill and going back in
with Tarantino movies. You're you're talking about big ones um
or the Rings franchise, or or magnificent works of art
like Frieda, which Weinstein fought to suppress and then gladly
(09:46):
took credit for when it won numerous awards. If you
look at their top movies, you're looking at some of
the highest grossing movies around. It's a gold standard in
in some cases of during these allegations, Weinstein's legal teams
spent great amounts of money to reach confidential settlements with
the victims. In each case, the legal team was careful
(10:08):
to include some kind of clause or language arguing something
along the lines of this is not an admission of guilt,
but that's a statement that rings false. And consideration of
the just the sheer amount of money like estimated to
be involved here, you know. They also he used spies
to infiltrate some of these groups to get information out
(10:30):
of certain women that were accusing him of things. It
goes really deep and pies and and you think about
the conspiratorial aspect of all that. Um fighting back against
people who are going to speak truth to power. Yeah,
and lately there have been some new allegations that have
come up. The director Terry's way Goff, who made one
of my favorite documentaries of all time. Crumb Um also
(10:54):
did the Bad Santa movie, which was interesting, but apparently
Um in conversations with Winsten, anytime he would mention interest
in the actress Mira Sorvino, Um, he would get a click,
he would get hung up on, and that had surfaced
in another allegation from Peter Jackson involving Mira Sorvino, saying
(11:15):
that any time her name came up, Uh, there was
just active aggression from from Harvey and his brother and
they of course denied it because that was specifically referencing
the Lord of the Rings movies, which Weinstein Company initially
was going to bank roll, but then they lost it
to new Line. So the Weinstein line was we had
no control overcasting because it ultimately left our hands. But
(11:39):
then it's been corroborated with the Terry's Wigov allegations. So
there are a lot of levers a man like that
can pull to keep things, keep people hushed up about
this kind of stuff, whether it's the victim themselves or
anyone else in the industry that knows. And and back
to the casting couch thing, the reason a lot of
this is so insidious is you don't have to be
told to shut up. You just know. There's this culture
(12:02):
that pervades this, you know town that's based around this
particular industry where if you don't see someone that's really
being brave and setting an example coming forward at great
cost to themselves like we're seeing now, chances are you're
gonna be terrified into submission and just you know, fear
for your livelihood. And that specific case with Mirror Servino
(12:26):
as has been corroborated, as you said. In addition, there's
Rose McGowan, in whose career was also cut short. Weinstein,
like many other serial criminals, had an m O yes,
a mode of operation that his typically involved deception. For example,
(12:47):
inviting an actor or a colleague to a quote unquote
business meeting only to later change the location, insists they
hold the meeting at night in a hotel bar or
in his office in his hotel. Uh. And then he
would often be coming out of the bathroom in a
row book. He would outwrite pressure them for sexual activity
in exchange forecasting consideration. And we have a specific example
(13:10):
of Harvey Weinstein's behavior from before the scandal broke yes.
This one comes from two years ago. Twenty two year
old woman accused Weinstein of touching her inappropriately during an
evening meeting at his Tribeca Film Center offices. Um. And
it comes from the New York Times. So the New
York Times did write about this. They had two stories.
The first one was the allegation of groping and the
(13:32):
second one was this one. It says the woman told
investigators that Weinstein touched her in appropriately after telling her
that it was important for casting agents to know whether
her breasts were real. So, um, just that's insidious already.
She contacted the police after the meeting, and at the
direction of the detectives, placed another call to Weinstein. They
(13:55):
recorded that one uh and then during this call, Weinstein
actually acknowledged that this episode had occurred. And then they
had a follow up meeting, this time at a hotel room,
and she wore a wire. They recorded it. I have
not heard this tape. It is shocking is not the
right word. It's just the way he's so nonchalant about it,
(14:16):
and he's so matter of fact about it, and he
basically just keeps telling this woman's model, Um, don't embarrass me.
And then come into mind, come into the room, let's
talk about this. Come into my room. Don't embarrass me.
I'm at this hotel a lot. I'm a big deal
around here. And then she says you tell it, says you,
but you touch my breast. I'm not comfortable with this. YadA, YadA, YadA.
And he said, look, it's what's what I'm used to.
(14:38):
He just says it, just tosses it off like it's nothing.
Chilling is the is the word I was looking for. Well, Um,
in the end, I'm going to read a quote from
the article. Quote this case was taken seriously from the outset,
with a thorough investigation conducted by our sex crimes unit.
After analyzing the available evidence, including multiple interviews with of parties,
(15:00):
a criminal charge is not supported. So, um, nothing happened
to Harb Weinstein because of this, And you know, you
can get into the minutia of the law there about
what constitutes um sexual assault and abuse and misconduct and
all of that, but it certainly seems like something very
wrong occurred there and nothing happened, and this, this could
(15:23):
fill an episode entirely with the exploration of Weinstein's crimes.
We want to we want to paint a picture of
the system at play here because it is a systemic phenomenon.
So let's move to Bill Cosby. Accusations against Cosby date
(15:44):
to at least the nineteen sixties, meaning they span the
vast majority of the seventy eight year olds career. He,
like Weinstein, or again any other serial criminal, also had
an m O. His Numerous victims described crimes with a
startling similar charity. Uh Cosby would make a drink or
a beverage for the victim, slip a drug into the beverage,
(16:06):
and then sexually assault or attempt to assault them when
they lost consciousness. For example, Uh, Christina really was a
twenty two year old secretary at a talent agency in
l A nine when she met Cosby. So she was
a secretary, not an inspiring act or anything. And she
said that she alleged that he invited her to his home,
(16:28):
where she says she passed out after two drinks. It
was foggy, and I woke up in bed, she reported
to Philadelphia Magazine. I found myself on the bed. He
had his shirt off, he had unzipped his pants. I
was just coming to Cosby did go to trial. A
lot of these votes have not even gone to a trial.
He went to a trial, uh last June, and the
(16:50):
trial lasted six days. It ended in a jury deadlock. Currently,
as we record this, Bill Cosby is set to return
to court for a retrial in April two thousand eighteen
on three counts of felony assault. And we talked about
this a little bit off air. This is this is
a country with a rule of law. Right, So if
(17:13):
there had not been a retrial, we would say that
he had been tried and exonerated, right, But he is
still in the court system for this, and given his age,
there are concerns about his lucidity, which, to be frank
with you, is is similar to some of the questions
(17:34):
we have asked in previous shows about prosecuting war criminals.
That's exactly what I was thinking. Yeah, at this point,
the general is in his eighties and you know, he
can't even really remember all the atrocities that that he
ordered way back in the day. But but how do
you bring something like this to justice? And does it
(17:54):
I mean, and it doesn't negate the existence of a
crime absolutely, and then used said how many actual official
um charges? This current trial in April will be for
three counts of felony assault And I've read the accusers
number as high as and many of these um are
(18:17):
sort of constrained by statutes of limitations that that do
differ state by state. But there is a period of
time past which you cannot prosecute these crimes anymore. And
for further information on that, there is an excellent article
uh in Mother Jones that contains a map indicating the
statute of limitations for rape survivors or assault survivors state
(18:43):
by state. And it is arguable with Bill Cosby's case
that it kind of opened the floodgates for more people
to outwardly discuss some of this stuff. Um, I remember
when Hannibal Burris like put it in a piece of
a stand up and I didn't. I knew nothing of
any alegations against Bill Cosby at the time. Another one
of those open secrets they always talk about, Yeah, years before,
(19:05):
and one of the most powerful things the survivor can
hear after surviving is that you are not alone at
so hearing somebody else speak about the same thing happening
to them or a very similar thing is very powerful.
And that's also what happened with another example we mentioned
at the top, the comedian Louis c K. In the
(19:26):
years preceding twenty seventeen, Louis c K became one of
the most famous, well known comics in the Western world.
His live shows repeatedly sold out, his stand up specials
played on repeat, and households across the planet. His independently
produced TV series met with critical acclaim, and he based
his voice on this sort of self deprecating, cynical, but
(19:48):
ultimately honest character, one who readily confessed any number of
controversial beliefs apparently understandable yet edgy foibles and so on. However,
there was a much darker side to the actual man
playing this character on stage, and it was by his
own admission eventually. Yeah. Well, for years, rumors had swirled
(20:08):
around the industry itself, specifically the comics people who ran
the show there, about Louis c K being a powerful
force in that world, but also backstage when you know,
when he's kind of in the dark, he was a
bit of a monster. Um. Specifically, there were female comedians
comics on tour with c K who would tell the
(20:30):
same story over and over and over that this guy
who is you know, not their boss in anyway on
these tours, but he's definitely as the headliner, there's a
position of power out there. Yeah. And and he's a
big name, and he's a draw. And they said that
he would corner them either backstage or at a hotel
(20:50):
after a show and would force them to watch him
pleasure himself, to watch him master being. Yeah. And while
this was, as we said earlier, another open secret in
the world of comedy, people outside of the industry only
heard reports along the lines of a victim who does
not want to be named has accused a very powerful
(21:11):
comedian of sexual harassment result but fears pursuing justice will
endanger their career. And it's interesting in the same way
that Hannibal Burrows kind of like lit the spark that
that's sort of blew the Cosby thing wide open um.
Comedian Tig Nataro had been openly criticizing Louis c K
for not getting out in front of this accusation, because
(21:34):
he would be asked about it in interviews and say
something the effective like, I don't wanna, you know, justify
it with or dignify it with the response you know
it's it's utterly not true and and if I talk
about it, it'll give it life in some way. And
you know, Tig who her show One Mississippi, was produced
by Louis c Ka, and she said that she was
(21:57):
not aware of the extent of these allegations when she
signed on to his production company or agreed to sold
the show to to Netflix. And it's interesting too because
in a in a similar way to something that Cosby did,
Luisy K would kind of joke about these kind of
proclivities in his routine and in his stand up and
(22:19):
his show and you know, like about you know, being
basically just an incorrigible horn dog. And there's even an
episode of of Louis where he kind of well, he
he sort of assaults Pamela Adlon's character, who plays kind
of his you know, on and off again love interest.
He pushes her against the wall and it ultimately kind
of ends up. She's okay with it, but it's a
(22:42):
little like knowing what we know now, it does not
play well. And that's the same for Cosby. He had
a bit where he talked about how the beauty of
Spanish fly, Spanish fly this aphrodisiac that you and he
talks about slipping it to women and their drinks. And
it's like in this very lighthearted, silly routine from his
early super clean comedy days. So a lot of truth
(23:03):
is told in just including an unpleasant truth. And we
have further examples after a word from our sponsor. Now
we go to Kevin Spacey, the actor famous for such
films as The Usual Suspects and Seven, as well as
(23:25):
the Netflix adaptation of House of Cards. Spacey also stands
accused of harassing multiple people on and offset again. This
was a practice members of various Hollywood social circles knew
about for years. The specific claim that brought this into
the mainstream occurred in October of seventeen, when an actor
named Anthony rap accused Spacey of sexual assault slash harassment
(23:48):
when Spacey was twenty six and when Anthony Rapp was fourteen. Yeah,
and there have been more multiple accusations against Kevin Spacey,
and a lot of them have to do with the
young men, very young men in their early teens um
and a lot of it is just so disheartening that
(24:09):
I don't even want to talk about it, but you
can find it. Yeah, and this also will you also
hear director Brian Singer mentioned in some of these cases.
Bryan Singer who directed The Usual Suspects, a film that
made space E quite famous, and as of the time
of this recording, more reports of space of surface. Police
(24:31):
in the UK are currently investigating new claims against him.
And one one crucial thing for us to emphasize here
is that it is not just the film industry, absolutely,
and it's you know, it's it's any industry where these
sorts of inequalities of power exist. Uh. The music and
(24:54):
entertainment mogul Russell Simmons would be one, just one example
from the world of music, and then even the world
of celebrity chefs who you know end up in the
television industry quite often, Um, like Mario Batali and John Besh, Yeah,
television host newscasters, Matt Lauer, Charlie Rose and and more.
(25:16):
Billy Riley is another one. We got Morgan Spurlock and
Tavis Smiley, Jeffrey Tambourg, Steven Seagal, Brett Ratner, Dustin Hoffman,
Jeremy Piven. Uh, there's a new one that just came out.
T J. Miller, who was you know, yeah in Silicon
Valley and he's a you know, popular stand up. Some
allegations that date back to his college days just surfaced
(25:39):
where a woman that he was apparently dating at the
time said that he choked her during sex and penetrated
her with objects against her will and left her bruised
and bloody, and um, you know, as he rose in
prominence and all of these other allegations to surface. This
(26:01):
is what we're seeing, is we're seeing people. Okay, I've
been carrying this around, you know, for a long time,
and I'm not gonna do it anymore and you finally
like feel like you haven't out, like you you're not alone,
and that maybe just maybe someone will you know, take you,
believe you. And in the case of Miller, I believe
they were originally in a comedy group together along with
(26:23):
the person who's currently married to. It's really heartbreaking, all
of it, and then it's and it just doesn't stop.
And in a in a way it's it's cathartic and
it's a it's a good thing to finally see some
come up, and but it's also just so disheartening to
see how much of how many of the people whose
(26:45):
art we we love and who you know, we've been
entertained by over the years, are at the heart just
like rotten, rotten people. It's it's hard to fathom being
a fan of a lot of the names that we
have discuss us like over the year, supporting with our money,
supporting with our adoration, and while this stuff is going on,
(27:07):
it's a it's a tough pill to swallow. But the
worst thing is that there are real victims who are
you know, out there and just having to deal with
this in real life. Garrison Keeler executives at MPR. The
list goes on, and by the time this episode reaches
the air, it is more than likely that there will
be more exposed criminals to add to the ranks of
(27:29):
powerful serial sexual abusers. I mean, in short, there's one
thing we know for short thus at this point, and
that's that there are more stories will come to light,
hopefully as this system of silence begins to break down.
But here's where it gets crazy. All of the dates,
the names, the facts and figures from earlier that we
(27:51):
have just discussed are as of this recording conclusively proven.
But these reports appear to be the tip of a
minister and tragic and and disgusting iceberg. It's at this
point virtually impossible to know for certain how many actors,
crew members, other studio or industry staff have also been victimized.
(28:13):
And it's impossible to know whether all these criminals responsible
for this behavior will ever receive punishment for their crimes.
You know, because as as we mentioned earlier, Weinstein was
booted from his job. He was fired, but that's not
(28:33):
the same as going to court. But it's also only
when it becomes a good business choice do those things happen.
And finally, we're seeing and I think he's being very
empathetic about this. But Ridley Scott, for example, had a
film starring Space that was done and they went back
into production and cut Space out of this movie, and
(28:55):
I think that was the way he tells it, it
was the right thing to do. But it's also like
it would have affected the grosses of the movie. So
it's it starts to like, you see these decisions being made,
all thank god, they're finally wising up in Hollywood, are they?
I mean, it just feels like, Okay, finally we have
to act because it's the right business move, right. Like
(29:16):
Bob Weinstein, it is wildly implausible that he had no
clue what was happening working with his brother over decades.
It's like the way Tarantino came out and was like,
you know, at first, I didn't know, and then kind
of came back a little bit later saying I knew
(29:37):
more than I let on. You know, these people were cronies.
They were hanging out at parties together and villas and
you know, living the high life. Going to these film
film festivals. You observe this kind of behavior and you
can't not know. And people are the human species. Out
of all of the strange things were enhanced ignition gives us.
(30:01):
The human species has one incredibly disturbing gift, which is
the ability to rationalize why I or why an individual
is doing something. People will do a lot when they
feel like their careers on the line, and they'll ignore
a lot too. Historically, Hollywood, like any other insular industry
(30:21):
or many other I should say, is that a reputation
for protecting its own. This has been a long standing tradition.
Roman Polanski is a great example. Roman Polanski. This is
not alleged. He was convicted. It has proven he drugged
and sexually assaulted a child, a thirteen year old, and
(30:42):
even today, in recent years, some members of Hollywood society
have sought to allow him to return to the US
with no legal consequences, and in the past, his supporters
in France, where he lives as a freeman, have fought
against extradition if it meant that he would serve time
for again and an assault on a thirteen year old child.
(31:04):
Can I just leave now? I don't want to talk
about this anymore. Well I don't either, but we have.
I mean this, this is what this show should be about.
You know, you're absolutely right. It's just tough. This, this
is tough, okay. Um. Another person, Brian Peck who in
(31:25):
two thousand four sort of sixteen months in prison for
engaging in sex acts with a child star who was
working for Nickelodeon. Um. This gentleman, Brian Pett continue to
work for Disney when he was out of prison. So
he did this terrible thing. He went to prison for
a little while, and then he got to continue to
work with kids at Disney. Right, he went on. He
(31:50):
was in two X Men films, he was in three
Living Dead films. Uh, and he was into Disney television
shows Believe and this was this was afterward. One that
I think is another profoundly disturbing example is a director
named Victor Salva. You're familiar, perhaps Matt Noel, with the
(32:14):
films Jeepers, Creepers and the Film's Powder. Salva made both
of those. After he's convicted in Night eight of sexual
crimes against several children that he had cast in an
earlier movie. Law enforcement agencies did find commercial child pornography
in his home. He pled guilty to every count. He
(32:36):
did actually go to court. He was sentenced to three
years in prison, of which he served fifteen months. A
little over one year he completed parole in NTO Jeepers.
Creepers became a franchise. Victor Salva made his most recent
film as of twenty fourteen, again A free and Powerful Man.
(33:00):
And we won't even get into Woody Allen. Another aspect
of the system of silence, the sexual abuse being so
prevalent in Hollywood, did not apply solely to one type
of person, not to a single age group. It was
and is pervasive for for decades. Allegations of sexual violence
against children have just been dogging the industry, with multiple
(33:24):
former child actors offering their own experience, their first hand
knowledge of these crimes occurring both in the past and
some of it actively. For example, Elijah would maintains that
he only managed to escape this sort of abuse due
to the vigilance of his parents. UH. One thing that
(33:44):
is apparently common here is that often what happens when
child actors enter the industry, or what did happen, was
that managers, producers, directors would isolate the kids from the
supervision of their parents. You know, the kid would be
emancipated right and work as an adult. Even that initial
(34:07):
Spacey story where Anthony rap accused him of coming on
to him inappropriately. He was a kid at the time
and was at a party for this Broadway production that
they were both working on, and to hear him tell,
it was too young to really kind of hobnob with
with somebody with folks couldn't drink, So he was just
sitting and watching TV. And as the night progressed, he
(34:29):
kind of stayed there and then Spacey just sort of
came in there and took advantage of him, or tried
to anyway. So you know, uh, it requires utter vigilance, apparents.
And so Elijah Wood counted himself very fortunate. But he
said that he and his family and everyone else were
fully aware of the presence of this sort of abuse
(34:51):
on and off film sets. In an interview with The
Sunday Times, would indicated that he believes this is a systematic,
systemic and much larger than a handful of offenders operating alone.
We have a quotation here where he says, clearly something
major was going on in Hollywood. It was all organized.
There are lots of vipers in the industry, people who
(35:12):
only have their own interest in mind. There is a
darkness in the underbelly. What burns me about these situations
is that the victims cannot speak as loudly as the
people in power. That's the tragedy of attempting to reveal
what is happening to innocent people. They can't be squashed,
but their lives have been irreparably damaged. And Corey Feldman
backed up What's claims in twenties sixteen notably. Yeah. He
(35:35):
went on to say, um, quote, I'm not able to
name names. People are frustrated, people are angry, They want
to know how this is happening. But unfortunately, California, conveniently enough,
has a statute of limitations that prevents that from happening,
because if I were to go and mention anybody's name,
I would be the one that would be in legal problems,
and I'm the one that would be sued. Yeah, and
(35:56):
that is terribly poignant thing that he said there, And
we're going to continue exploring this extremely dark subject afterward
from our sponsor. In November of seventeen, the former child
(36:17):
actor current musician Corey Feldman spoke with Vanity Fair about
his experience with child abuse in the film industry and
while he was refusing to name all all of the
offenders that he says he's aware of. He is planning
and hoping to create a film that will, from his perspective, Finally,
and UH inarguably irreversibly exposed the active pedophilia rings operating
(36:42):
Hollywood and beyond. He does believe the abuse he and
his colleagues encounter his children caused reparable damage, and he
attributes the death of his friend and fellow actor Corey
Hame in part to this abuse. And he has a
quote where he says, it's all connected to a bigger,
darker power. I don't know how high up the chain
(37:03):
that power goes, but I know that it probably is
outside of the film industry too. It's probably in government,
it's probably throughout the world in different dark aspects. And
we know that this um, this concept of sexual abuse
rings operating had in the past been relegated to the
(37:26):
domain of just wild alarmist conspiracy theory claims. But we
also have seen in recent years with what's happening in
the UK with Jimmy Saville, UH, with the international pornography
trades or rings trading pornography online. These things or something
(37:50):
like them what Feldman is talking about do indisputably exists.
And Feldman did name at least three men. Yes. Some
of those games were a child actor manager, Marty Weiss's
former actor John Grissom, and the owner of a place
in Los Angeles called Alfie's Soda Pop Club. Alfie Hoffman
(38:12):
was this man's name. And Um, I did not know
what this was, and I looked it up and it
was basically a disco for child actors that operated for
a handful of years between nineteen six and nine. And
the whole idea was that you know, it's it's uh.
Clientele would be UM sixteen or younger, and they were
(38:37):
able to get, you know, an alcohol free environment where
they could have a dance floor and free all night,
free soda pop all night. None of this sounds creepy
at all, No, it really really does. Yeah, And it
was apparently a toxic environment, especially as it got later
in the night. There were a lot of things that
(38:58):
occurred after parties that current even after that stuff. These
are allegations that are made in several places by multiple people. Um.
The Alfie Hoffman name came up when Feldman Corey Feldman
went on The Doctor Oz Show, and I guess their
staff went through all of the different things that Corey
(39:18):
Feldman has written over the years and they tried to
piece together who it might possibly be this person that
he keeps mentioning and um, Doctor Oz showed a picture
of Alfie Hoffman to Corey Feldman without showing anybody else
and asked, is this the man? And Cory Wan Feldman
says yes, and then they go into a lot of
these allegations that we're talking about. In his many Fair interview,
(39:40):
he said he could name six people right off the bat. So,
according to him and other survivors of this, this is
a systemic thing which makes it organized crime. Not only
that there's a great article great and I guess it's
probably the wrong word, but an article advice called him
himself elf and he and it is about Corey Haim's
(40:04):
experiences UH in this environment, specifically in the Soda Pop club.
And as you know, Corey Haim was Corey Feldman's co
star best friend and UH may or may not know
also that he became penniless and addicted to drugs and
pretty much died alone. I believe in a hotel in
(40:27):
l A with you know, no, no work, no career. Um.
And that systemic thing you're talking about. It really summed
up here in this quote from Haim from this video
that he he was part of an eighty nine called Me,
Myself and I UM, And it goes like this. Growing
up on movie sets has its ups and its downs.
(40:48):
I mean, sure, it's great. You get lots of attention,
only three hours a day of school, there's makeup and wardrobe,
movie premieres, limousines. It all sounds like fun. But when
you're twelve or thirteen years old, you're very, very impressionable,
and I know it's easy to get off track. Like me,
some of you don't have moms and dads to bring
you up. I mean, let's face it, it's tough being
a kid. So be smart, don't get messed up, stay
(41:11):
in school, be anybody you want to be, which overall
is very powerful and positive message from a survivor. Except
he wasn't a survivor. I mean, he is ultimately this
life to the way I see it, and tell me,
you argue, tell me I'm wrong, ultimately ate him away,
(41:34):
you know. And it's Let me talk about Elijah Wood
and having positive reinforcement and somebody looking after him and
having his back through all this stuff. He seems like
a really well adjusted human person when you see him today.
That's yeah, that's what I was saying, um earlier that
Feldman also attributed this fall. I guess what I mean
by inspiring is on a on a personal level for
(41:57):
him's character. It is so profound that he was able
to make this a message to other people. That's very true.
This is This is not the only video on this subject.
There's a documentary named Amy Berg who addressed this ongoing
scandal in her film and Open Secret, which includes statements
(42:18):
by victims and later attempts to expose criminals within the
film industry. According to supporters, factions of Hollywood conspired to
stop this film from spreading, just like um, Just like somebody,
an anonymous buyer bought that Discovery documentary they came out
a few years ago about sexual abuse within the halls
(42:41):
of government. Right, Yeah, that was called Conspiracy of Silence.
And you can find at least most of the film
online if you search for it, yeah, on YouTube. We
haven't even gotten into how this has affected politics. I mean,
we're starting to see a lot more resignations and politics
because of these kinds of accusations and it actually affecting
(43:03):
people's careers. So you know, the pieces might move slow,
but but hopefully they move in the right direction. Hopefully
the old adage is true. Hopefully the wheels of justice
grind slow yet exceedingly fine. And you know, I'm glad
you mentioned politics here because in one of the things
(43:25):
that people re examined when so much of this abuse
came to light concerned Anita Hill and current Supreme Court
Judge Clarence Thomas. And Anita Hill, going back to the
earlier quote Matt brought us at the top of the show,
was interrogated, right, was called a scorned woman, was um
(43:48):
roundly undermined in the course of the investigation. And now
Clarence Thomas is on the Supreme Court of the United States.
He's one of the nine ring raiths that runs this democracy.
And although you know, this situation was deemed consensual. Look
what happened with Monica Lewinsky and Bill Clinton, and Bill
(44:09):
Clinton was ultimately i mean, he you know, had some
egg on his face, but he ultimately was walking around
today given speeches, doing fundraisers and heading up the Clinton Foundation,
and Lewinsky was just totally demonized and dragged through the
mud and made to look like some sort of awful
homewrecking you know, demon some the five person you have
(44:29):
to ask yourself, is is in that kind of power dynamic?
If that kind of power dynamic exists in an interaction,
is it possible for a real consent to occur? It's
you know, it's it's an inequality of power and inescapable
(44:49):
one and critics of the film An Open Secret believe
that misses the mark on the importance of the abuse
by presenting things in a disingenuous or misleading man or.
And while that might be up to the interpretation of
the person watching the film, none of the critics of
the film are saying that this doesn't exist. No no
(45:14):
one in their right mind is saying that abuse does
not exist in Hollywood, And I would hope no one
in the right mind is arguing in twenty eighteen that
abuse doesn't exist in politics. It clearly does. And as
we draw this episode to a close, we do want
to note that at this time, many of these accusations,
(45:38):
these allegations, these criminal acts, have not been examined by
the court system, so just keep that in mind when
you're thinking about all this stuff. They haven't seen their
day in court yet, and we have some questions we
have We hope that we have presented this again profoundly
disturbing topic in the light that it deserves, which is
(46:00):
not a series of isolated cases, is not a series
of one person being monstrous. It is a series of
multiple events occurring and multiple other people working to cover
those events up, to keep them away from the public eye,
to use private eye, to keep them away from the
public eye, to literally conspire against victims. He was staying
(46:23):
at the top of the show. This is the very
definition of a conspiracy. We we we know that that's
what this is. There is no theory involved. Absolutely agreed,
and so we want to in today's episode on some questions.
Do you think more revelations will follow? Yes, absolutely, and
they're going to continue to follow. And I think the
(46:44):
child sexual abuse scandal is the next thing that is
going to topple probably at least one entire section of
the film industry. I really do think that's coming. And
another question that you have asked us, folks, is what
enabled these revelations to come into the public sphere. Now
(47:05):
the records conclusively do show, after all, the multiple victims
continually came forward in almost every case, only to be
blacklisted and ignored. And again we are we've concentrated on
Hollywood here because that's where a lot of the stuff
is coming from. But it would be um dishonest to
(47:26):
say that it is limited in any way to Hollywood.
I mean, we haven't even mentioned the me too hashtag,
which became not only like a standard the people were
able to bear for this cause, not only in the
film industry, but people in general. You know, you just
saw it. It just blew up on the internet. Me too,
(47:47):
and there's this real sense of this we don't want
to think about the fact that this happens to people.
I was talking with my mother. I had dinner with
my mother, who was an opera singer, and she experienced
this kind of stuff all the time, and it was
just accepted. It was like, you just keep your mouth shut.
You do this, whether you're a secretary, whether you're a star.
You're going to have powerful figures, typically powerful male figures
(48:12):
that are going to take advantage of that, especially back
in the sixties and seventies. As we've seen this progress
so thank god we do have these digital ways of
spreading this like wildfire and finally shutting it down, or
at least starting the process of shutting it down. And
it's what Ben said at the top, Having that message
of I also experienced this and then having it amplified
(48:35):
at that level, I think it just created a current
that were allowed for it to happen. I think that's
what happened, right, So what what you know going back
to that, what enabled these revelations to finally be treated?
I would say seriously by the mainstream media. You will
(48:55):
hear people saying that Weinstein somehow wronged and vile system,
and then that's why he finally had to pay for
his crimes. But I'm concerned that that diminishes the strength
of the people who spoke up, you know what I mean.
He just got caught in a way that you could
no longer cover up. There comes a point where you
(49:17):
reach critical mass where it's like, okay, we you weigh it.
Are we gonna keep covering this up? Are we just
gonna like throw this guy under the bus because he's
a cancer and we can no longer support this behavior
because it is not in our best interest. As business people.
And that's sad and gross, but that's what happens on
the business side, you know, that's what But in a
(49:38):
cancer analogy, wouldn't you say, Harvey Weinstein is almost like
getting a biopsy, just a tiny part of it taken out. Whatever,
whatever the reasoning is, having it happen is better for
the body quote unquote the human condition, you know, like
that's a good I don't know, but I do feel
(49:59):
like it. These things only happen when it when it
costs somebody too much money, and that's when they finally
will will you know, kick someone to the curb. Someone
is powerful. It's a Harvey weinsteam. And one of the
other things that has to be said here is we
kind of mentioned already. It's not just in Hollyo. It's
not any of these other places. It's it's in homes
across this country, across the world. It's in you know,
(50:22):
at the bars and churches. This kind of thing is everywhere.
And just having a brief conversation with my wife last
night about this topic, she mentioned to me specific examples
that she knew of in our circle, like our friendship
circle of women who have been abused and it is
so prevalent. So lastly, and most importantly, if you or
(50:45):
someone you know is a victim of abuse, whether sexual, physical,
or otherwise, remember that there are other people who can
help you. You can contact them directly. All you have
to do is CALLD six five six four six seven
three and you'll be connected with a trained staff member
from the National Sexual Assault Telephone Hotline and that person
(51:08):
can help you. Right now, you are not alone. Thank
you so much for listening to this episode. As we
as we established several times throughout the show, UH, this
is an ongoing phenomenon. So if you are listening to
this in a later date, it uh there may be
information that was not available as we were recording the show.
(51:31):
We are going to head out and can contact us
directly in the meantime via Facebook, Instagram, or Twitter. And
if you would rather just send us an email directly,
you can do that too. We are conspiracy at how
stuff Works dot com.
From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is
riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or
learn the stuff they don't want you to know. M Hello,
(00:25):
and welcome back to the show. My name is Matt,
my name is Paul. They call me Ben. We are
with our super producer Paul deck Ins. You are you,
and that makes this stuff they don't want you to know.
Today's episode will just cut straight to the chase. Is
about an epidemic in Hollywood that has existed for a
very very long time, longer uh than anyone listening to
(00:48):
the show today has been alive unless they are sent
more than a century overd uh. We're talking about the
epidemic of sexual abuse in Hollywood, as well as the
long running, active conspiracy to aid and abet the perpetrators
of these crimes while punishing, suppressing, blackballing, and dismissing their victims.
And that's the kicker here. This is the very definition
(01:11):
of a conspiracy. It's something that's been swept under the rug,
whether actively or just through in action, for decades, and
because there are powerful people involved who have connections in
places that would be important to have if you were
going to create a conspiracy such as this. And I
just want to say that for for me personally, and
I think you guys would probably agree, is I just
(01:33):
want to be an ally, um to folks that have
experienced this kind of abuse and discuss it in as
a matter of fact, away as possible, and put this
information out there for folks that maybe don't know the
depths of it. Um. But we are going to get
into some descriptions of some behavior that is both aberrant
and possibly triggering. So just warning you right now. Agreed
(01:57):
and well said, we want to cause san all listeners
that this episode does contain reports of abuse and may
not be suitable for all audiences. Additionally, we have over
the lifetime of this show, we have we have covered
things that may sound you know, silly or reverend, but
we consider this a moral imperative on our part. And uh,
(02:22):
it's no secret that Hollywood is by and large often
seen as a sleazy place. And although we always want
to avoid painting things with an overly broad brush, Tinseltown
has to a degree earned this reputation, a large degree. Yeah,
there's uh this thing you may have heard of called
the casting couch, and this is a tactic that's been
(02:45):
around for the past century. It's it's the practice where
a producer or director or someone who is high up
um in the industry, in the movie industry in particular,
will demand or perhaps even hint at sexual favers in
exchange for a role in a film or for even
a TV commercial or anything really um and they will
(03:08):
try and get these favors from aspiring actors. That's probably
the most vulnerable people who are hungry and getting into
the industry, as well as established well known actors who
are trying to reignite their career or something or even
just you know, go to the next level, you know,
in their career. Yeah. Absolutely, and not just actors, of course,
(03:30):
we're also talking about members of production crews. We're talking
about anyone that could be involved in this industry. And
that casting cow situation is so insidious because it almost
it doesn't require implicit requesting of of a sexual act
It doesn't you don't have to come out and say it.
It's a lot of it is implied with subtext, and
(03:52):
there is this underlying sense that if I don't do
this in one way or another, I am not going
to get this job, or I am to be mistreated
in some way or blacklisted. Yeah, that real fear of
being blacklisted is something that's that we're going to see
play out throughout the stories. Yeah, and it's a very
rational fear, because it does happen. It is most terrifyingly
(04:16):
happening to people as we sit in the studio today.
It's often said that some people will do almost anything
in the pursuit of fame and or power. But it's
also true that people who acquire massive amounts of fame
and power often have very little oversight regarding how they
choose to wield it. Yeah, we have an example here
(04:36):
from one of the strongest voices I think uh in
dealing with this subject, Amber Tamlin. She wrote in The
New York Times on September six. She says, for women
in America who come forward with stories of harassment, abuse,
and sexual assault, there are not two sides to every story.
However noble that principle might seem. Women do not get
(05:00):
to have a side. They get to have an interrogation.
Too often they are questioned mercilessly about whether their side
is legitimate, especially if that side happens to accuse a
man of stature, then that woman has to consider the
scrutiny and repercussions she'll be subjected to by sharing her side.
And of course we would be remiss if we did
(05:22):
not establish that this is not something that is solely
limited to women. Absolutely, but but very much the majority
of people experiencing this are women. And that power dynamic
that we're talking about is has a legacy, you know,
I mean of these you think about these executives, these
powerful male, kind of dominating figures that own the town,
(05:47):
and that has just been perpetuated over time. Absolutely, and abusers,
depending upon their position, were historically protected and currently protected
by powerful interests too often worked not only to keep
the story out of the press, but also to keep
these criminals out of jails where they inarguably belonged. The
(06:07):
situation appeared to change, or begin to change over the
course of twenty seventeen. Prominent performers and executives who were
once protected by this invisible system of power and influence
found their victims speaking out, fighting back, and the crimes
of these formerly untouchable individuals surface without suppression into the
public sphere. Today, we're exploring this phenomenon to see how
(06:32):
what was once most definitely the stuff Hollywood doesn't want
you to know, has finally gained mainstream recognition as the
dire epidemic that it is, and along the way will
investigate several specific cases. Yeah, we're gonna look at names
like Harvey Weinstein, which kind of kicked off this whole thing,
Bill Cosby, which was even before that that kind of
(06:54):
maybe led to that breaking point. It's interesting that Bill
Cosby sort of felt like his in case where it was,
you know, this very wholesome seeming man had done all
of these horrible things behind closed doors. But Weinstein really
cracked it open because he represents something else that that had.
It's I don't know Cosby too. I mean he was
(07:15):
a producer, He abused many people that were seeking to
work with him and for him. But for some reason,
when the Weinstein revelations came about, everyone started coming forward. Yeah,
it represented the the larger structure of Hollywood, and it's
not that much different with Louis c. K. He's another person.
We're gonna look at a producer and director and somebody
(07:36):
who's has a lot of control, and we're gonna look
at a lot more people as well, and We're also
going to briefly touch on the historical allegations, which were
again for decades somewhat ignored by the mainstream press and
at least a lot of times kept out of the
court system. I would say, even worse than a crime
of negligence or neglect on the part of the press
(07:58):
is the crime of the attacking. And we'll end on
some questions as well, not just who knew what and when,
and not just what Hollywood as a whole will do
in support of the victims, both unknown and known, but
we'll also ask what happens next, will anything actually permanently
significantly change? And here are the facts. As we record
(08:20):
this episode, over thirty prominent men from various entertainment industries
have been accused of sexual misconduct, harassment, assault, and rape.
We have specific examples from Hollywood, and perhaps we should
start with Harvey Weinstein. The allegations against Harvey Weinstein date
back decades. There are early reports We're talking very early,
(08:42):
all the way back to the nineteen seventies, and they
kind of continued bit by bit throughout the years. But
then in October of two thousand seventeen, the New York
Times published allegations of sexual harassment and assault against this
gentleman um and currently, as are recording this episode, there
around thirty prominent actors and over eighty women in total
(09:05):
who have come forward with reports of abuse or attempted
abuse at least by Harvey Weinstein. And Weinstein and his
brother Bob made names for themselves as head of the
Weinstein Company, and I believe they also owned Mirramax, and
you know, they kind of were an important force in
(09:26):
mainstreaming indie film. And I guess you could say you're
talking about everything from Kill Bill and going back in
with Tarantino movies. You're you're talking about big ones um
or the Rings franchise, or or magnificent works of art
like Frieda, which Weinstein fought to suppress and then gladly
(09:46):
took credit for when it won numerous awards. If you
look at their top movies, you're looking at some of
the highest grossing movies around. It's a gold standard in
in some cases of during these allegations, Weinstein's legal teams
spent great amounts of money to reach confidential settlements with
the victims. In each case, the legal team was careful
(10:08):
to include some kind of clause or language arguing something
along the lines of this is not an admission of guilt,
but that's a statement that rings false. And consideration of
the just the sheer amount of money like estimated to
be involved here, you know. They also he used spies
to infiltrate some of these groups to get information out
(10:30):
of certain women that were accusing him of things. It
goes really deep and pies and and you think about
the conspiratorial aspect of all that. Um fighting back against
people who are going to speak truth to power. Yeah,
and lately there have been some new allegations that have
come up. The director Terry's way Goff, who made one
of my favorite documentaries of all time. Crumb Um also
(10:54):
did the Bad Santa movie, which was interesting, but apparently
Um in conversations with Winsten, anytime he would mention interest
in the actress Mira Sorvino, Um, he would get a click,
he would get hung up on, and that had surfaced
in another allegation from Peter Jackson involving Mira Sorvino, saying
(11:15):
that any time her name came up, Uh, there was
just active aggression from from Harvey and his brother and
they of course denied it because that was specifically referencing
the Lord of the Rings movies, which Weinstein Company initially
was going to bank roll, but then they lost it
to new Line. So the Weinstein line was we had
no control overcasting because it ultimately left our hands. But
(11:39):
then it's been corroborated with the Terry's Wigov allegations. So
there are a lot of levers a man like that
can pull to keep things, keep people hushed up about
this kind of stuff, whether it's the victim themselves or
anyone else in the industry that knows. And and back
to the casting couch thing, the reason a lot of
this is so insidious is you don't have to be
told to shut up. You just know. There's this culture
(12:02):
that pervades this, you know town that's based around this
particular industry where if you don't see someone that's really
being brave and setting an example coming forward at great
cost to themselves like we're seeing now, chances are you're
gonna be terrified into submission and just you know, fear
for your livelihood. And that specific case with Mirror Servino
(12:26):
as has been corroborated, as you said. In addition, there's
Rose McGowan, in whose career was also cut short. Weinstein,
like many other serial criminals, had an m O yes,
a mode of operation that his typically involved deception. For example,
(12:47):
inviting an actor or a colleague to a quote unquote
business meeting only to later change the location, insists they
hold the meeting at night in a hotel bar or
in his office in his hotel. Uh. And then he
would often be coming out of the bathroom in a
row book. He would outwrite pressure them for sexual activity
in exchange forecasting consideration. And we have a specific example
(13:10):
of Harvey Weinstein's behavior from before the scandal broke yes.
This one comes from two years ago. Twenty two year
old woman accused Weinstein of touching her inappropriately during an
evening meeting at his Tribeca Film Center offices. Um. And
it comes from the New York Times. So the New
York Times did write about this. They had two stories.
The first one was the allegation of groping and the
(13:32):
second one was this one. It says the woman told
investigators that Weinstein touched her in appropriately after telling her
that it was important for casting agents to know whether
her breasts were real. So, um, just that's insidious already.
She contacted the police after the meeting, and at the
direction of the detectives, placed another call to Weinstein. They
(13:55):
recorded that one uh and then during this call, Weinstein
actually acknowledged that this episode had occurred. And then they
had a follow up meeting, this time at a hotel room,
and she wore a wire. They recorded it. I have
not heard this tape. It is shocking is not the
right word. It's just the way he's so nonchalant about it,
(14:16):
and he's so matter of fact about it, and he
basically just keeps telling this woman's model, Um, don't embarrass me.
And then come into mind, come into the room, let's
talk about this. Come into my room. Don't embarrass me.
I'm at this hotel a lot. I'm a big deal
around here. And then she says you tell it, says you,
but you touch my breast. I'm not comfortable with this. YadA, YadA, YadA.
And he said, look, it's what's what I'm used to.
(14:38):
He just says it, just tosses it off like it's nothing.
Chilling is the is the word I was looking for. Well, Um,
in the end, I'm going to read a quote from
the article. Quote this case was taken seriously from the outset,
with a thorough investigation conducted by our sex crimes unit.
After analyzing the available evidence, including multiple interviews with of parties,
(15:00):
a criminal charge is not supported. So, um, nothing happened
to Harb Weinstein because of this, And you know, you
can get into the minutia of the law there about
what constitutes um sexual assault and abuse and misconduct and
all of that, but it certainly seems like something very
wrong occurred there and nothing happened, and this, this could
(15:23):
fill an episode entirely with the exploration of Weinstein's crimes.
We want to we want to paint a picture of
the system at play here because it is a systemic phenomenon.
So let's move to Bill Cosby. Accusations against Cosby date
(15:44):
to at least the nineteen sixties, meaning they span the
vast majority of the seventy eight year olds career. He,
like Weinstein, or again any other serial criminal, also had
an m O. His Numerous victims described crimes with a
startling similar charity. Uh Cosby would make a drink or
a beverage for the victim, slip a drug into the beverage,
(16:06):
and then sexually assault or attempt to assault them when
they lost consciousness. For example, Uh, Christina really was a
twenty two year old secretary at a talent agency in
l A nine when she met Cosby. So she was
a secretary, not an inspiring act or anything. And she
said that she alleged that he invited her to his home,
(16:28):
where she says she passed out after two drinks. It
was foggy, and I woke up in bed, she reported
to Philadelphia Magazine. I found myself on the bed. He
had his shirt off, he had unzipped his pants. I
was just coming to Cosby did go to trial. A
lot of these votes have not even gone to a trial.
He went to a trial, uh last June, and the
(16:50):
trial lasted six days. It ended in a jury deadlock. Currently,
as we record this, Bill Cosby is set to return
to court for a retrial in April two thousand eighteen
on three counts of felony assault. And we talked about
this a little bit off air. This is this is
a country with a rule of law. Right, So if
(17:13):
there had not been a retrial, we would say that
he had been tried and exonerated, right, But he is
still in the court system for this, and given his age,
there are concerns about his lucidity, which, to be frank
with you, is is similar to some of the questions
(17:34):
we have asked in previous shows about prosecuting war criminals.
That's exactly what I was thinking. Yeah, at this point,
the general is in his eighties and you know, he
can't even really remember all the atrocities that that he
ordered way back in the day. But but how do
you bring something like this to justice? And does it
(17:54):
I mean, and it doesn't negate the existence of a
crime absolutely, and then used said how many actual official
um charges? This current trial in April will be for
three counts of felony assault And I've read the accusers
number as high as and many of these um are
(18:17):
sort of constrained by statutes of limitations that that do
differ state by state. But there is a period of
time past which you cannot prosecute these crimes anymore. And
for further information on that, there is an excellent article
uh in Mother Jones that contains a map indicating the
statute of limitations for rape survivors or assault survivors state
(18:43):
by state. And it is arguable with Bill Cosby's case
that it kind of opened the floodgates for more people
to outwardly discuss some of this stuff. Um, I remember
when Hannibal Burris like put it in a piece of
a stand up and I didn't. I knew nothing of
any alegations against Bill Cosby at the time. Another one
of those open secrets they always talk about, Yeah, years before,
(19:05):
and one of the most powerful things the survivor can
hear after surviving is that you are not alone at
so hearing somebody else speak about the same thing happening
to them or a very similar thing is very powerful.
And that's also what happened with another example we mentioned
at the top, the comedian Louis c K. In the
(19:26):
years preceding twenty seventeen, Louis c K became one of
the most famous, well known comics in the Western world.
His live shows repeatedly sold out, his stand up specials
played on repeat, and households across the planet. His independently
produced TV series met with critical acclaim, and he based
his voice on this sort of self deprecating, cynical, but
(19:48):
ultimately honest character, one who readily confessed any number of
controversial beliefs apparently understandable yet edgy foibles and so on. However,
there was a much darker side to the actual man
playing this character on stage, and it was by his
own admission eventually. Yeah. Well, for years, rumors had swirled
(20:08):
around the industry itself, specifically the comics people who ran
the show there, about Louis c K being a powerful
force in that world, but also backstage when you know,
when he's kind of in the dark, he was a
bit of a monster. Um. Specifically, there were female comedians
comics on tour with c K who would tell the
(20:30):
same story over and over and over that this guy
who is you know, not their boss in anyway on
these tours, but he's definitely as the headliner, there's a
position of power out there. Yeah. And and he's a
big name, and he's a draw. And they said that
he would corner them either backstage or at a hotel
(20:50):
after a show and would force them to watch him
pleasure himself, to watch him master being. Yeah. And while
this was, as we said earlier, another open secret in
the world of comedy, people outside of the industry only
heard reports along the lines of a victim who does
not want to be named has accused a very powerful
(21:11):
comedian of sexual harassment result but fears pursuing justice will
endanger their career. And it's interesting in the same way
that Hannibal Burrows kind of like lit the spark that
that's sort of blew the Cosby thing wide open um.
Comedian Tig Nataro had been openly criticizing Louis c K
for not getting out in front of this accusation, because
(21:34):
he would be asked about it in interviews and say
something the effective like, I don't wanna, you know, justify
it with or dignify it with the response you know
it's it's utterly not true and and if I talk
about it, it'll give it life in some way. And
you know, Tig who her show One Mississippi, was produced
by Louis c Ka, and she said that she was
(21:57):
not aware of the extent of these allegations when she
signed on to his production company or agreed to sold
the show to to Netflix. And it's interesting too because
in a in a similar way to something that Cosby did,
Luisy K would kind of joke about these kind of
proclivities in his routine and in his stand up and
(22:19):
his show and you know, like about you know, being
basically just an incorrigible horn dog. And there's even an
episode of of Louis where he kind of well, he
he sort of assaults Pamela Adlon's character, who plays kind
of his you know, on and off again love interest.
He pushes her against the wall and it ultimately kind
of ends up. She's okay with it, but it's a
(22:42):
little like knowing what we know now, it does not
play well. And that's the same for Cosby. He had
a bit where he talked about how the beauty of
Spanish fly, Spanish fly this aphrodisiac that you and he
talks about slipping it to women and their drinks. And
it's like in this very lighthearted, silly routine from his
early super clean comedy days. So a lot of truth
(23:03):
is told in just including an unpleasant truth. And we
have further examples after a word from our sponsor. Now
we go to Kevin Spacey, the actor famous for such
films as The Usual Suspects and Seven, as well as
(23:25):
the Netflix adaptation of House of Cards. Spacey also stands
accused of harassing multiple people on and offset again. This
was a practice members of various Hollywood social circles knew
about for years. The specific claim that brought this into
the mainstream occurred in October of seventeen, when an actor
named Anthony rap accused Spacey of sexual assault slash harassment
(23:48):
when Spacey was twenty six and when Anthony Rapp was fourteen. Yeah,
and there have been more multiple accusations against Kevin Spacey,
and a lot of them have to do with the
young men, very young men in their early teens um
and a lot of it is just so disheartening that
(24:09):
I don't even want to talk about it, but you
can find it. Yeah, and this also will you also
hear director Brian Singer mentioned in some of these cases.
Bryan Singer who directed The Usual Suspects, a film that
made space E quite famous, and as of the time
of this recording, more reports of space of surface. Police
(24:31):
in the UK are currently investigating new claims against him.
And one one crucial thing for us to emphasize here
is that it is not just the film industry, absolutely,
and it's you know, it's it's any industry where these
sorts of inequalities of power exist. Uh. The music and
(24:54):
entertainment mogul Russell Simmons would be one, just one example
from the world of music, and then even the world
of celebrity chefs who you know end up in the
television industry quite often, Um, like Mario Batali and John Besh, Yeah,
television host newscasters, Matt Lauer, Charlie Rose and and more.
(25:16):
Billy Riley is another one. We got Morgan Spurlock and
Tavis Smiley, Jeffrey Tambourg, Steven Seagal, Brett Ratner, Dustin Hoffman,
Jeremy Piven. Uh, there's a new one that just came out.
T J. Miller, who was you know, yeah in Silicon
Valley and he's a you know, popular stand up. Some
allegations that date back to his college days just surfaced
(25:39):
where a woman that he was apparently dating at the
time said that he choked her during sex and penetrated
her with objects against her will and left her bruised
and bloody, and um, you know, as he rose in
prominence and all of these other allegations to surface. This
(26:01):
is what we're seeing, is we're seeing people. Okay, I've
been carrying this around, you know, for a long time,
and I'm not gonna do it anymore and you finally
like feel like you haven't out, like you you're not alone,
and that maybe just maybe someone will you know, take you,
believe you. And in the case of Miller, I believe
they were originally in a comedy group together along with
(26:23):
the person who's currently married to. It's really heartbreaking, all
of it, and then it's and it just doesn't stop.
And in a in a way it's it's cathartic and
it's a it's a good thing to finally see some
come up, and but it's also just so disheartening to
see how much of how many of the people whose
(26:45):
art we we love and who you know, we've been
entertained by over the years, are at the heart just
like rotten, rotten people. It's it's hard to fathom being
a fan of a lot of the names that we
have discuss us like over the year, supporting with our money,
supporting with our adoration, and while this stuff is going on,
(27:07):
it's a it's a tough pill to swallow. But the
worst thing is that there are real victims who are
you know, out there and just having to deal with
this in real life. Garrison Keeler executives at MPR. The
list goes on, and by the time this episode reaches
the air, it is more than likely that there will
be more exposed criminals to add to the ranks of
(27:29):
powerful serial sexual abusers. I mean, in short, there's one
thing we know for short thus at this point, and
that's that there are more stories will come to light,
hopefully as this system of silence begins to break down.
But here's where it gets crazy. All of the dates,
the names, the facts and figures from earlier that we
(27:51):
have just discussed are as of this recording conclusively proven.
But these reports appear to be the tip of a
minister and tragic and and disgusting iceberg. It's at this
point virtually impossible to know for certain how many actors,
crew members, other studio or industry staff have also been victimized.
(28:13):
And it's impossible to know whether all these criminals responsible
for this behavior will ever receive punishment for their crimes.
You know, because as as we mentioned earlier, Weinstein was
booted from his job. He was fired, but that's not
(28:33):
the same as going to court. But it's also only
when it becomes a good business choice do those things happen.
And finally, we're seeing and I think he's being very
empathetic about this. But Ridley Scott, for example, had a
film starring Space that was done and they went back
into production and cut Space out of this movie, and
(28:55):
I think that was the way he tells it, it
was the right thing to do. But it's also like
it would have affected the grosses of the movie. So
it's it starts to like, you see these decisions being made,
all thank god, they're finally wising up in Hollywood, are they?
I mean, it just feels like, Okay, finally we have
to act because it's the right business move, right. Like
(29:16):
Bob Weinstein, it is wildly implausible that he had no
clue what was happening working with his brother over decades.
It's like the way Tarantino came out and was like,
you know, at first, I didn't know, and then kind
of came back a little bit later saying I knew
(29:37):
more than I let on. You know, these people were cronies.
They were hanging out at parties together and villas and
you know, living the high life. Going to these film
film festivals. You observe this kind of behavior and you
can't not know. And people are the human species. Out
of all of the strange things were enhanced ignition gives us.
(30:01):
The human species has one incredibly disturbing gift, which is
the ability to rationalize why I or why an individual
is doing something. People will do a lot when they
feel like their careers on the line, and they'll ignore
a lot too. Historically, Hollywood, like any other insular industry
(30:21):
or many other I should say, is that a reputation
for protecting its own. This has been a long standing tradition.
Roman Polanski is a great example. Roman Polanski. This is
not alleged. He was convicted. It has proven he drugged
and sexually assaulted a child, a thirteen year old, and
(30:42):
even today, in recent years, some members of Hollywood society
have sought to allow him to return to the US
with no legal consequences, and in the past, his supporters
in France, where he lives as a freeman, have fought
against extradition if it meant that he would serve time
for again and an assault on a thirteen year old child.
(31:04):
Can I just leave now? I don't want to talk
about this anymore. Well I don't either, but we have.
I mean this, this is what this show should be about.
You know, you're absolutely right. It's just tough. This, this
is tough, okay. Um. Another person, Brian Peck who in
(31:25):
two thousand four sort of sixteen months in prison for
engaging in sex acts with a child star who was
working for Nickelodeon. Um. This gentleman, Brian Pett continue to
work for Disney when he was out of prison. So
he did this terrible thing. He went to prison for
a little while, and then he got to continue to
work with kids at Disney. Right, he went on. He
(31:50):
was in two X Men films, he was in three
Living Dead films. Uh, and he was into Disney television
shows Believe and this was this was afterward. One that
I think is another profoundly disturbing example is a director
named Victor Salva. You're familiar, perhaps Matt Noel, with the
(32:14):
films Jeepers, Creepers and the Film's Powder. Salva made both
of those. After he's convicted in Night eight of sexual
crimes against several children that he had cast in an
earlier movie. Law enforcement agencies did find commercial child pornography
in his home. He pled guilty to every count. He
(32:36):
did actually go to court. He was sentenced to three
years in prison, of which he served fifteen months. A
little over one year he completed parole in NTO Jeepers.
Creepers became a franchise. Victor Salva made his most recent
film as of twenty fourteen, again A free and Powerful Man.
(33:00):
And we won't even get into Woody Allen. Another aspect
of the system of silence, the sexual abuse being so
prevalent in Hollywood, did not apply solely to one type
of person, not to a single age group. It was
and is pervasive for for decades. Allegations of sexual violence
against children have just been dogging the industry, with multiple
(33:24):
former child actors offering their own experience, their first hand
knowledge of these crimes occurring both in the past and
some of it actively. For example, Elijah would maintains that
he only managed to escape this sort of abuse due
to the vigilance of his parents. UH. One thing that
(33:44):
is apparently common here is that often what happens when
child actors enter the industry, or what did happen, was
that managers, producers, directors would isolate the kids from the
supervision of their parents. You know, the kid would be
emancipated right and work as an adult. Even that initial
(34:07):
Spacey story where Anthony rap accused him of coming on
to him inappropriately. He was a kid at the time
and was at a party for this Broadway production that
they were both working on, and to hear him tell,
it was too young to really kind of hobnob with
with somebody with folks couldn't drink, So he was just
sitting and watching TV. And as the night progressed, he
(34:29):
kind of stayed there and then Spacey just sort of
came in there and took advantage of him, or tried
to anyway. So you know, uh, it requires utter vigilance, apparents.
And so Elijah Wood counted himself very fortunate. But he
said that he and his family and everyone else were
fully aware of the presence of this sort of abuse
(34:51):
on and off film sets. In an interview with The
Sunday Times, would indicated that he believes this is a systematic,
systemic and much larger than a handful of offenders operating alone.
We have a quotation here where he says, clearly something
major was going on in Hollywood. It was all organized.
There are lots of vipers in the industry, people who
(35:12):
only have their own interest in mind. There is a
darkness in the underbelly. What burns me about these situations
is that the victims cannot speak as loudly as the
people in power. That's the tragedy of attempting to reveal
what is happening to innocent people. They can't be squashed,
but their lives have been irreparably damaged. And Corey Feldman
backed up What's claims in twenties sixteen notably. Yeah. He
(35:35):
went on to say, um, quote, I'm not able to
name names. People are frustrated, people are angry, They want
to know how this is happening. But unfortunately, California, conveniently enough,
has a statute of limitations that prevents that from happening,
because if I were to go and mention anybody's name,
I would be the one that would be in legal problems,
and I'm the one that would be sued. Yeah, and
(35:56):
that is terribly poignant thing that he said there, And
we're going to continue exploring this extremely dark subject afterward
from our sponsor. In November of seventeen, the former child
(36:17):
actor current musician Corey Feldman spoke with Vanity Fair about
his experience with child abuse in the film industry and
while he was refusing to name all all of the
offenders that he says he's aware of. He is planning
and hoping to create a film that will, from his perspective, Finally,
and UH inarguably irreversibly exposed the active pedophilia rings operating
(36:42):
Hollywood and beyond. He does believe the abuse he and
his colleagues encounter his children caused reparable damage, and he
attributes the death of his friend and fellow actor Corey
Hame in part to this abuse. And he has a
quote where he says, it's all connected to a bigger,
darker power. I don't know how high up the chain
(37:03):
that power goes, but I know that it probably is
outside of the film industry too. It's probably in government,
it's probably throughout the world in different dark aspects. And
we know that this um, this concept of sexual abuse
rings operating had in the past been relegated to the
(37:26):
domain of just wild alarmist conspiracy theory claims. But we
also have seen in recent years with what's happening in
the UK with Jimmy Saville, UH, with the international pornography
trades or rings trading pornography online. These things or something
(37:50):
like them what Feldman is talking about do indisputably exists.
And Feldman did name at least three men. Yes. Some
of those games were a child actor manager, Marty Weiss's
former actor John Grissom, and the owner of a place
in Los Angeles called Alfie's Soda Pop Club. Alfie Hoffman
(38:12):
was this man's name. And Um, I did not know
what this was, and I looked it up and it
was basically a disco for child actors that operated for
a handful of years between nineteen six and nine. And
the whole idea was that you know, it's it's uh.
Clientele would be UM sixteen or younger, and they were
(38:37):
able to get, you know, an alcohol free environment where
they could have a dance floor and free all night,
free soda pop all night. None of this sounds creepy
at all, No, it really really does. Yeah, And it
was apparently a toxic environment, especially as it got later
in the night. There were a lot of things that
(38:58):
occurred after parties that current even after that stuff. These
are allegations that are made in several places by multiple people. Um.
The Alfie Hoffman name came up when Feldman Corey Feldman
went on The Doctor Oz Show, and I guess their
staff went through all of the different things that Corey
(39:18):
Feldman has written over the years and they tried to
piece together who it might possibly be this person that
he keeps mentioning and um, Doctor Oz showed a picture
of Alfie Hoffman to Corey Feldman without showing anybody else
and asked, is this the man? And Cory Wan Feldman
says yes, and then they go into a lot of
these allegations that we're talking about. In his many Fair interview,
(39:40):
he said he could name six people right off the bat. So,
according to him and other survivors of this, this is
a systemic thing which makes it organized crime. Not only
that there's a great article great and I guess it's
probably the wrong word, but an article advice called him
himself elf and he and it is about Corey Haim's
(40:04):
experiences UH in this environment, specifically in the Soda Pop club.
And as you know, Corey Haim was Corey Feldman's co
star best friend and UH may or may not know
also that he became penniless and addicted to drugs and
pretty much died alone. I believe in a hotel in
(40:27):
l A with you know, no, no work, no career. Um.
And that systemic thing you're talking about. It really summed
up here in this quote from Haim from this video
that he he was part of an eighty nine called Me,
Myself and I UM, And it goes like this. Growing
up on movie sets has its ups and its downs.
(40:48):
I mean, sure, it's great. You get lots of attention,
only three hours a day of school, there's makeup and wardrobe,
movie premieres, limousines. It all sounds like fun. But when
you're twelve or thirteen years old, you're very, very impressionable,
and I know it's easy to get off track. Like me,
some of you don't have moms and dads to bring
you up. I mean, let's face it, it's tough being
a kid. So be smart, don't get messed up, stay
(41:11):
in school, be anybody you want to be, which overall
is very powerful and positive message from a survivor. Except
he wasn't a survivor. I mean, he is ultimately this
life to the way I see it, and tell me,
you argue, tell me I'm wrong, ultimately ate him away,
(41:34):
you know. And it's Let me talk about Elijah Wood
and having positive reinforcement and somebody looking after him and
having his back through all this stuff. He seems like
a really well adjusted human person when you see him today.
That's yeah, that's what I was saying, um earlier that
Feldman also attributed this fall. I guess what I mean
by inspiring is on a on a personal level for
(41:57):
him's character. It is so profound that he was able
to make this a message to other people. That's very true.
This is This is not the only video on this subject.
There's a documentary named Amy Berg who addressed this ongoing
scandal in her film and Open Secret, which includes statements
(42:18):
by victims and later attempts to expose criminals within the
film industry. According to supporters, factions of Hollywood conspired to
stop this film from spreading, just like um, Just like somebody,
an anonymous buyer bought that Discovery documentary they came out
a few years ago about sexual abuse within the halls
(42:41):
of government. Right, Yeah, that was called Conspiracy of Silence.
And you can find at least most of the film
online if you search for it, yeah, on YouTube. We
haven't even gotten into how this has affected politics. I mean,
we're starting to see a lot more resignations and politics
because of these kinds of accusations and it actually affecting
(43:03):
people's careers. So you know, the pieces might move slow,
but but hopefully they move in the right direction. Hopefully
the old adage is true. Hopefully the wheels of justice
grind slow yet exceedingly fine. And you know, I'm glad
you mentioned politics here because in one of the things
(43:25):
that people re examined when so much of this abuse
came to light concerned Anita Hill and current Supreme Court
Judge Clarence Thomas. And Anita Hill, going back to the
earlier quote Matt brought us at the top of the show,
was interrogated, right, was called a scorned woman, was um
(43:48):
roundly undermined in the course of the investigation. And now
Clarence Thomas is on the Supreme Court of the United States.
He's one of the nine ring raiths that runs this democracy.
And although you know, this situation was deemed consensual. Look
what happened with Monica Lewinsky and Bill Clinton, and Bill
(44:09):
Clinton was ultimately i mean, he you know, had some
egg on his face, but he ultimately was walking around
today given speeches, doing fundraisers and heading up the Clinton Foundation,
and Lewinsky was just totally demonized and dragged through the
mud and made to look like some sort of awful
homewrecking you know, demon some the five person you have
(44:29):
to ask yourself, is is in that kind of power dynamic?
If that kind of power dynamic exists in an interaction,
is it possible for a real consent to occur? It's
you know, it's it's an inequality of power and inescapable
(44:49):
one and critics of the film An Open Secret believe
that misses the mark on the importance of the abuse
by presenting things in a disingenuous or misleading man or.
And while that might be up to the interpretation of
the person watching the film, none of the critics of
the film are saying that this doesn't exist. No no
(45:14):
one in their right mind is saying that abuse does
not exist in Hollywood, And I would hope no one
in the right mind is arguing in twenty eighteen that
abuse doesn't exist in politics. It clearly does. And as
we draw this episode to a close, we do want
to note that at this time, many of these accusations,
(45:38):
these allegations, these criminal acts, have not been examined by
the court system, so just keep that in mind when
you're thinking about all this stuff. They haven't seen their
day in court yet, and we have some questions we
have We hope that we have presented this again profoundly
disturbing topic in the light that it deserves, which is
(46:00):
not a series of isolated cases, is not a series
of one person being monstrous. It is a series of
multiple events occurring and multiple other people working to cover
those events up, to keep them away from the public eye,
to use private eye, to keep them away from the
public eye, to literally conspire against victims. He was staying
(46:23):
at the top of the show. This is the very
definition of a conspiracy. We we we know that that's
what this is. There is no theory involved. Absolutely agreed,
and so we want to in today's episode on some questions.
Do you think more revelations will follow? Yes, absolutely, and
they're going to continue to follow. And I think the
(46:44):
child sexual abuse scandal is the next thing that is
going to topple probably at least one entire section of
the film industry. I really do think that's coming. And
another question that you have asked us, folks, is what
enabled these revelations to come into the public sphere. Now
(47:05):
the records conclusively do show, after all, the multiple victims
continually came forward in almost every case, only to be
blacklisted and ignored. And again we are we've concentrated on
Hollywood here because that's where a lot of the stuff
is coming from. But it would be um dishonest to
(47:26):
say that it is limited in any way to Hollywood.
I mean, we haven't even mentioned the me too hashtag,
which became not only like a standard the people were
able to bear for this cause, not only in the
film industry, but people in general. You know, you just
saw it. It just blew up on the internet. Me too,
(47:47):
and there's this real sense of this we don't want
to think about the fact that this happens to people.
I was talking with my mother. I had dinner with
my mother, who was an opera singer, and she experienced
this kind of stuff all the time, and it was
just accepted. It was like, you just keep your mouth shut.
You do this, whether you're a secretary, whether you're a star.
You're going to have powerful figures, typically powerful male figures
(48:12):
that are going to take advantage of that, especially back
in the sixties and seventies. As we've seen this progress
so thank god we do have these digital ways of
spreading this like wildfire and finally shutting it down, or
at least starting the process of shutting it down. And
it's what Ben said at the top, Having that message
of I also experienced this and then having it amplified
(48:35):
at that level, I think it just created a current
that were allowed for it to happen. I think that's
what happened, right, So what what you know going back
to that, what enabled these revelations to finally be treated?
I would say seriously by the mainstream media. You will
(48:55):
hear people saying that Weinstein somehow wronged and vile system,
and then that's why he finally had to pay for
his crimes. But I'm concerned that that diminishes the strength
of the people who spoke up, you know what I mean.
He just got caught in a way that you could
no longer cover up. There comes a point where you
(49:17):
reach critical mass where it's like, okay, we you weigh it.
Are we gonna keep covering this up? Are we just
gonna like throw this guy under the bus because he's
a cancer and we can no longer support this behavior
because it is not in our best interest. As business people.
And that's sad and gross, but that's what happens on
the business side, you know, that's what But in a
(49:38):
cancer analogy, wouldn't you say, Harvey Weinstein is almost like
getting a biopsy, just a tiny part of it taken out. Whatever,
whatever the reasoning is, having it happen is better for
the body quote unquote the human condition, you know, like
that's a good I don't know, but I do feel
(49:59):
like it. These things only happen when it when it
costs somebody too much money, and that's when they finally
will will you know, kick someone to the curb. Someone
is powerful. It's a Harvey weinsteam. And one of the
other things that has to be said here is we
kind of mentioned already. It's not just in Hollyo. It's
not any of these other places. It's it's in homes
across this country, across the world. It's in you know,
(50:22):
at the bars and churches. This kind of thing is everywhere.
And just having a brief conversation with my wife last
night about this topic, she mentioned to me specific examples
that she knew of in our circle, like our friendship
circle of women who have been abused and it is
so prevalent. So lastly, and most importantly, if you or
(50:45):
someone you know is a victim of abuse, whether sexual, physical,
or otherwise, remember that there are other people who can
help you. You can contact them directly. All you have
to do is CALLD six five six four six seven
three and you'll be connected with a trained staff member
from the National Sexual Assault Telephone Hotline and that person
(51:08):
can help you. Right now, you are not alone. Thank
you so much for listening to this episode. As we
as we established several times throughout the show, UH, this
is an ongoing phenomenon. So if you are listening to
this in a later date, it uh there may be
information that was not available as we were recording the show.
(51:31):
We are going to head out and can contact us
directly in the meantime via Facebook, Instagram, or Twitter. And
if you would rather just send us an email directly,
you can do that too. We are conspiracy at how
stuff Works dot com.
Stuff They Don't Want You To Know News
Hosts And Creators
Matt Frederick
Ben Bowlin
Noel Brown
Show Links
RSSStoreAboutLive ShowsPopular Podcasts
United States of Kennedy
United States of Kennedy is a podcast about our cultural fascination with the Kennedy dynasty. Every week, hosts Lyra Smith and George Civeris go into one aspect of the Kennedy story.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com