April 25, 2014 • 37 mins
Every year tax activists of one sort or another try to avoid paying federal or state levies -- but why? Tune in to learn more about taxation conspiracy theories.
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
From UFOs two, Ghosts and government cover ups. History is
riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or
learn the stuff they don't want you to now. Hey, everybody,
welcome back to the show, the show that never ends.
This is stuff they don't want you to know. My
name is Matt and I'm Ben, and today we're talking
(00:23):
about that thing that you love so much, that thing
that just warms your heart every time you have to
do it. Taxes. Yeah, today we are talking about taxes.
And this will be probably the last thing we do
about taxes for a while, or at least the last
thing I do, because when April fifteen came up, which
is when everybody in the US has to pay their taxes,
(00:45):
we started covering so much of this stuff and we
still haven't gotten to all of it. So this is
going to be our opportunity to delve into some of
the history of taxation, the problems people have with it,
and of course the conspiracy theory surrounding it, of which
there are quite a few. Absolutely, So let's just go
ahead and jump right in. Taxes are an ancient idea
(01:07):
and it's basically any any levy that's placed on an
individual or a legal entity like a company or corporation
that's levied by a state or something something to that effect,
a state or a group, and there are legal repercussions
if that levy is not paid, right, you can be
charged with the crime. And this is an ancient, ancient idea.
(01:29):
It dates as far back as Mesopotamia or even the
old Kingdom of Egypt. If you think today's systems blow,
just imagine, you know, having to live back then. Because
in this situation, if you didn't satisfy your your tax
or pay your tribute even it wasn't like they would
(01:50):
take you to a court of law and then charge
you more money. You could be beaten, be killed. It
would take your stuff, and by off I mean like
your family. Uh you know you also wouldn't necessarily pay
with money, right, Yeah, because people weren't necessarily using money
or at least currency of any kind of that time.
So you'd be forced into some kind of labor situation.
(02:14):
Like you said, if your family has to go into
a forced labor or or military service, um conscription of
sorts or digging ditches, like literally digging ditches. Yeah, we're
just giving up the livestock that you have at your
house that you're going to be using for your family.
Right and today, luckily, I think we mentioned this on
a brain Stuff video. Uncle Sam won't physically beat you
(02:38):
for not paying your taxes, but you will get increasing fines. Usually.
The US tax system is huge. And at one level
that's kind of strange, right because uh u s citizens
have never been big fans of taxes. Oh yeah, it's
one of the main reasons for the Revolutionary War. Uh
(03:00):
just you know, we revolted against the British because they
were trying to put taxes on certain things, like really
heavy tax without representation exactly. So that was the first
big thing. We're not being represented, but we're having to
pay all this money. Why the heck would we have
to do that? Right? And of course, um later you
could argue that became a hypocritical thing as we later
(03:23):
evolved into the present tax system we have. But in theory,
the people of the US are represented. Um just a
quick side sidebar here. The idea of um mer cancil
is m as a system you know where where in
this this is what the United Kingdom was doing at
the time. Right, They were saying, okay, colonies, give us
(03:46):
all of your resources, all of your raw goods, and
then you can and we'll buy them for a price
that we set. And then we will also h only
ship manufact your goods. You can only get manufactured goods
from us certain types. And uh, we will tax both
(04:06):
those things we shipped to you and the things that
you are supplying with us. So it goes. You gotta
pay both ways, right right, and your cancel is UM
of course arguably exists today in UM. You know, in
theories that people have about resource extraction by private entities
(04:29):
or by UM even international bodies like the I m
F for World Bank totally has nothing to do with this.
But uh, in the in the early eighteen sixties, Uncle
Sam started collecting the first national income tax. And you'll
hear people say, oh, this is eighteen sixty one, UM,
(04:50):
and it was to pay for the Civil War, or
it was eighteen sixty two or sixty three. But it
culminates in UM in something we'll learn about later when
they actually passed the act. But early eighteen sixties that's
when it That's how long it took us to just say, oh, okay,
now we'll do tax too, yeah exactly. And that was
so the original one was that a flat tax or
(05:14):
a graduated tax, graduated tax, right, Um, but we did
try some other stuff. Right For all those uh, all
those flat tax proponents who say this is a revolutionary
thing and it's something that we absolutely have to do. Um,
don't call it a come back. We tried before, right,
that's right, because that was in eighteen sixty seven when
(05:36):
they tried the flat tax. The only lasted a couple
of years, that would right, Yeah, it's just well anyway,
so five years later, in eighteen seventy two, the national
income tax was actually repealed. Um. It just altogether they
just decided, you know what, this was a bad idea,
We're not going to do this. Um. But the federal
government went back to relying on basically tariffs, which are
(05:57):
kind of it's not mercantilism, but it's kind end of
the same thing where you're just taxing imports, exports, that
kind of thing, right, and excise taxes as well. So,
just to be clear, the US always had some sort
of tax system. People had to pay taxes in one
way or another. They didn't have to pay as many,
(06:19):
but uh, tariffs are not a sustainable model for this
kind of thing at least, and that's what the federal
government found. Things got ugly, things got really ugly. Um.
And a few years later, Congress passed what was called
the Income Tax Act of So this tax two of
(06:42):
personal income that was more than four thousand dollars, which
was a lot of money back then. And uh, but
not a lot of people have that amount of money, right, yeah,
how like we're looking at it. You're looking at again
something that we've talk about the top ten percent. Um,
it's not the one percent back then. But still only
people are affected by this. And the Supreme Court wild out. No,
(07:04):
I'm kidding. They did say it was unconstitutional though. Um,
they said that income tax did not abide by a
specific constitutional guideline. And this is kind of its kind
of a dry thing that doesn't sound important, but it's
part of this story. Here's the guideline. The guideline says
(07:25):
that in the Constitution that any tax levied directly on
people on the citizens asked to be levied in proportion
to a state's population. So you can't just, um, you know,
if we take one of the most populous states, which
would be California, and then we take one of the
(07:46):
least populous states, which would be North Dakota, Eta. Right,
that's unconstitutional. So Congress wild out, I'm kidding about what
they did was doing that than not. But in nine
same year, everybody's favorite Federal Reserve Act has passed. Congress
(08:07):
passed the sixteenth Amendment to get around this, So you know, okay,
so I we're gonna go ahead and read the sixteenth Amendment.
Someone complained that we didn't actually read the sixteenth Amendment
on our video recently about taxes. I just want to
point out that it is there in the very beginning.
If you pause the video as the opening is happening,
the entire text is there. So here it is. The
(08:28):
sixteenth Amendment reads, the Congress shall have the power to
lay and collect taxes on incomes from whatever source derived,
without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to
any census or enumeration. Uh. That was a great read, Nolan.
I both like made eye contact and nodded um in
the affirmative to your read, Matt. So essentially, this gave
(08:52):
the government the power to do what they want, and
it made the changing the constitution made the income tax
finally constitutional, regardless of which state a citizen resides in.
But then another thing happened this year, and that was
the Underwood Tariff Act of ninet. This also had an
(09:13):
income tax section, and it initiated the progressive system that
we're you know, balling out on today. And then fast
forward all the way to the nineteen forties. During World
War two, um, the federal government started using this withholding
tax system, which is kind of it's also known as
pay as you go and and pay as you earn taxation. Yes,
(09:37):
so we have a I did a video for this
on one of our other shows, brain Stuff, which is
just how income tax works. And this is something that
a lot of people need to think about. You know,
you see it all the time in the United States
around tax season. People get so excited and say, I'm
(09:57):
going to get a refund you or the government is
giving me a refund. I can't wait to buy like
a Flying Squirrel series. Yeah, as though it's new money
or somehow it's like, yeah, like your box. I don't
know what. What's ridiculous stuff you could buy with the refund. Well,
for I'm just thinking about my house and the things
that I would have bought if I had gotten a
refund which I didn't. Uh, okay, something I have gotten
(10:21):
something No, well, practical but crazy, like maybe I don't know, um,
some kind of large cage for my dog to run
around in the back. But but it would be a
huge enclosure and it would have all kinds of things
for her to run around and jump on it to
like a habitat. It would be a yeah, massive habitat
for my dog. Yeah, okay, I'm not sure. I think
(10:43):
I would uh take a trip to do something incredibly
impractical and really publicize it. So i'd say, you know, otto,
it's the anniversary of the first performance of the famous
French professional flat less, which is a real thing. Yeah,
I would go there and take pictures of me standing
(11:05):
around pretending to fart in places which I'm sure I'm
sure France would love. Speaking of music, I'm gonna redact
to mine. I'm gonna say I would get. I would
get one of those acritic see through drum kits that
costs like you know what I would I know what
I would do. I would make a music video with
with us like we would do well, you know, we
(11:26):
do money at it. No, would you be down with that? Okay? No,
one would be down with that. Either are called the artists.
Our producer has corrected me, these are fartists, and I apologize.
He was looking it up immediately right he started talking
about it. Yeah, I got the side I for that one. However, Um,
what what we're saying here when we talk about this
(11:47):
thing is that this is not quite the free money
that a lot of people mistake it for your paying
taxes every single time you get a pay check in
the US, right and later, it's just settling the tab.
Does the government owe you money some of the money
(12:08):
that they took from you, or do you owe them
more money than you gave them? So people have been
going absolutely nuts about this ever since. Well, yeah, because
nobody wants to pay that much money. Even even if
you go through and you really think about all the
things you're getting by paying these taxes, it's just something
(12:32):
I think, just deep inside, it feels like you're getting
ripped off, especially if you have to when you settle
up your tab you have to pay even more. I
can totally understand the feeling, but there are a lot
of people think there's more to this story, that it's
not just us paying taxes to get things to get
roads and public education. Uh. People think it goes a
(12:55):
little deeper. Ah, that sounds like you're saying there might
be a conspiratorial angle. Oh yes, Uh so, yeah, it's true.
There are loads of ways to get out of paying taxes,
but they are also a bunch of arguments against paying
taxes at all. Uh. And a lot of these arguments say, hey,
this is a huge conspiracy perpetrated upon you, the citizen.
(13:17):
That's right. One of the ones we found is from
tax dash freedom dot Com and uh it's from this
information comes from Irwin Schiff, and uh. It essentially says
that the entire federal judiciary is involved in this monumental
criminal conspiracy to collect income taxes, uh, in violation of
(13:39):
overall law of the law of the land. And he
has a specific argument for this um which I think
we also have a quote for right, Yes, we do.
Since the income tax was repealed in nineteen fifty four
when Congress adopted the nineteen fifty four Code, it is
clear that for fifty years federal judges have been in
(13:59):
conspiracy the U. S. Department of Justice and prosecutors, and
they have been illegally and criminally prosecuting people for crimes
that do not exist in connection with the tax that
nobody owes. Now, interestingly enough, we have to point out
one thing about her. When shift he was it was
given a thirteen year prison sentence for tax fraud. And
(14:23):
as we know, if quite a few people who are imprisoned,
do you believe in various conspiracy theories? And I don't.
I don't blame them because I mean, there are a
couple that have definitely proven to be true. Private prisons
are incentivized to keep people in prison, right, Oh yeah, sure,
(14:44):
I can totally see how that environment would lead you
to believe there's wrongdoing going on. Well, and and you know,
to be fair, something probably went wrong to get you there.
But you know, we all know that there's corruption across
all of any system. In any system, there is going
to be some form of corruption, so right, and of
course that that's an inevitable thing. We see countless acts
(15:09):
of corruption when it comes to taxation, with frivolous attempts
to dodge tax which carries a five thousand dollar fine
and stuff. But one of the other conspiracies to set this,
to set this up, um, I want to point out
a couple of things. First, the federal government uses tax
(15:30):
dollars to maintain liquidity throughout the year, right, which is
why the pay as you go system works so well
for the government. Um and you know for a lot
of people who prefer the illusion of getting getting a
bunch of money set of a refund. But um, one
(15:51):
thing that is true is that voters have no direct
discretion or control over where their specific dollars go. This
is one of my biggest concerns over taxes. Right. There's
so there's no there's no analytical device to try to
impose that would be nightmarish because there are a lot
(16:13):
of things that people wouldn't want to pay for. Um.
Because the majority of taxpayers in this country are not
the majority of policymakers. Um. And the policymakers often times
have different goals. Yeah, well that's that's that's the terrible truth, right,
because it would be impossible to have a voting system
(16:35):
where we all say, okay, this is where I want
my how I want my tax money apportions, right, and
we have you know, we also have mob rules, so
people could people could freak out about the latest horror
story of the month or trending Facebook thing and then boom,
no more money for I don't know the c d
(16:57):
C or for uh something anyone can get along with roads?
No money for this road, no money for edgy education
or whatever. There's the point being that it would make
the uh stability of the government a very difficult proposition.
But also it means that when you pay taxes, you
(17:19):
may be paying for things that you would not, given
the chance, uh decide to support. So let's go back
to Irwin shift just for a moment, then, uh not
to shift shift gears. I'm sorry, And speaking of things
that ah, that I would support, Ben, I think we
(17:40):
have a word from our sponsor. Well, hello there, sir pie.
Are you tired of paying taxes with money? Uh? Well yeah,
is there something else I can pay with? Oh? I'm
glad you asked. My friends here take this shovel. Okay,
Oh wow, it's pretty hefty that right. Your days of
(18:01):
paying too much tax in cash are over. With our
new patented program, you two can labor directly for your
rulers the same way that the Egyptian pyramids were built.
You'll be digging ditches in place of dropping dollars. Oh
that's fantastic. I've been meaning to get more exercise. This
(18:22):
is great. I can't wait to tell my wife yes
and tell her that Freedom paid dot org sent you. Okay, well,
can I get started right away or is there some
kind of form I have to fill out? Oh? No,
no forms, Just get started and will contact you when
you've done your fair share. All right, it sounds like
I'm gonna I'm gonna be able to afford that addition
(18:44):
to my house now two years later. Okay, So I've
been out on the fields making the ditches for for
two years now. And how we is your experience with
freedom bay Oh? Well, to be honest, that's all the
(19:05):
time we have. Thanks so much for tuning in. Everybody,
Please remember that freedom pay dot org is a nonprofit.
We are here for you. Yes, Freedom pay dot org.
Freedom isn't free, but it's cheaper every day we can
pay dot Org is in no way affiliated with the
(19:27):
United States Government, nor the n s A, the FBI,
T n t A, b C U s A A
Triple A Chairmakers of Kansas. Freedom pay dot Org is
brought to you by Illumination Global Unlimited. And we are
back so now that we're at a good halfway point,
let's dive right into some of the biggest arguments about taxation,
(19:49):
which also incorporate conspiracy, matt um. A lot of times.
It's the little things, right, Yeah, some of the biggest
things are the little list things. So um, one thing
we can talk about or the semantics of taxes and
the way people discuss semantics. Right. It goes back to
the wording of various amendments, um like who are we
(20:15):
the people? What is the difference between income and wages?
Because people argue that wages are not income and that
income itself, for instance, is only derived from investments or
something like that, and that has often been um has
(20:35):
often been kind of dismissed by the courts, and by
kind of, I mean, what's the word with prejudice? Well,
it's okay. We had a great response on our video
series on this because a couple of people pointed out
and correctly, that there were cases where someone argued that
they shouldn't have to pay income tax and they the
(20:58):
jury did find in their favorite. These, however, were civil courts,
not criminal courts, and one of the differences in there
is that a civil court only decides if a crime
was committed and the crime was intentionally committed, and because
there was a jury of the peers that agreed with
(21:19):
the defendant defend, it was found not guilty. And we
love these corrections. And if you check out our video
either on our own website stuff that once you know
dot com or YouTube, you can learn a lot more
about it. But now it's time to talk about the
constitutional arguments. That's right. It's not just the sixteenth Amendment, correct,
(21:42):
that's correct. You can also look at the first Amendment,
freedom of speech. A lot of times people believe that
because you have to write things on a tax form,
it's violating your freedom of speech, okay, or like it
violate your freedom of religion. Um, if you have a
religious objection to paying taxes. But we know that doesn't
(22:04):
really that doesn't really work. There are special codes or
exemptions that and a mom or priest or rabbi or
whomever a religious officer might have. But the U. S.
Court already ruled in a case called Reynolds versus the
United States that you still have to obey the law
(22:25):
no matter how much you believe that it doesn't apply
to you. Yeah, but they'll you know, you might get
a deduction here there for uh, for your religious beliefs. Um,
but you're certainly not exempt to paying the tax if
you're gonna live inside the country. Here's one that's interesting.
It makes sense to me. Um, this surprised me a
by how much it made sense. Could you plead the
(22:46):
fifth to avoid paying your taxes? So let's think so, right,
so you say, look, I r s I'm not gonna
file my taxes because I would be incriminate myself. Yeah. Great,
Oh wow, that's quite ingenious. Did it work? No, it
(23:08):
didn't work. Yeah, that's a good question. Um. There was
a case with US versus Sullivan where Justice Oliver Wendell
Holmes UH said that he well, essentially he said, no,
you're ridiculous. I mean, being a Supreme Court justice. He
(23:29):
didn't say stop being ridiculous, but he did he did
clearly outline why you can't do this. There. I do
like the idea, though, Ben, I have to say, just
at least coming up with that idea and and fighting
it in court, trying, really trying fighting in court that way.
That's I don't that takes moxie. And then there's another
idea here that the takings the word takings in the
(23:53):
in the Fifth Amendments, taking claws means that you can't
take something from a taxpayer unless they receive just compensation.
And uh. The U. S. Supreme Court rejected this one too,
and numerous arguments about due process um have been made
(24:13):
so the idea that you can't be deprived of life, liberty,
and property without due process. But um, there's a huge
list of courts and cases that have flatly rejected this.
I mean, I guess we could read them. It's a
long list. Yeah, I'm not going to read out this
laundry list. If you really want to know all these cases,
just email us at conspiracy at Discovery dot com and
(24:35):
I'll just send it to you. That's probably the easiest
way for us to handle this, sure thing. And agreed.
The thirteenth Amendment is another story. This concerns a guy
named Arthur J. P. He said that the whole sixteenth
Amendment was um inconstitutional because the Okay, here we go,
(24:57):
here's his pitch. I feel like all these guys are
making pictures. Uh. The income tax under the I R.
S Code of ninety nine was involuntary servitude servititude, which
violated the Thirteenth Amendment. And uh, you know he lost
his case. Um do an interesting argument the Sorry not
(25:17):
to glaze over that one, but but the thirteenth Amendment
was one that I found particularly interesting. Just the idea
that we are not citizens of the United States government
as a whole, but we are each citizens of the
state in which we live. That idea, yeah, um, that's
that's interesting because the argument from there would go, therefore,
(25:39):
Washington has no power to tax anybody who's not specifically
on federal land. However, they also there's another argument there
I think that supporteenth Amendment. There's also the argument that
was never properly ratified. This has of course been rejected.
And there's this argument that there's a missing thirteenth Amendment
(26:03):
and the Constitution mat the titles of nobility amendment. So
this sounds rich. I like this. So uh, according to
this story, the unproven story, this would take citizenship away
from any person receiving a title of nobility. Therefore, and
I'm just gonna read this quote. Therefore, actions taken by
(26:23):
lawyers and judges used the title esquire, which protesters claims
as nobility, um, are monarchical and therefore unconstitutional. Interesting. See,
I would want to argue that if you use that
in your name and you are nobility, then you are
above the citizenry and enabled to be taxed. But then
(26:44):
they said, oh, who is this esquire dude trying to
take my thirty plus percent? Um? So how I I'm
just interested here? When when a lot of these arguments
we're reading or in the mid ninth century, late nineteenth century,
when do you think this one came around? Let's say,
(27:06):
I'm gonna guess here. Okay, do I get a whole century?
That's a long time. Um, yeah, yeah, you get a
whole century. It's up to you. Well, it's got to
be the twentieth century. It probably probably right that it
came around then. It was argued as recently it's two
thousand and five. Wow. Really yep, in a case called
(27:26):
Campion versus Towns. It was a defense to a charge
of tax evasion. Okay, so the next one is a
huge argument. I've seen this all over the place. You
can go on YouTube and find a ton of videos
that argue about personal sovereignty or being a sovereign individual
inside a state or a land, and or now they
(27:48):
even call him those natural individuals sometimes and they're basically
saying that they have not requested the things that would
come along with paying your taxes. They don't need to
use the Reese sources and the things that you gain
from paying taxes, therefore they don't have to pay for them.
So and when they say this, they mean stuff like
no food stamps, no unemployment insurance. Typically ignore the intangible
(28:14):
things like um, cleaner environment or general safety. Right, but
you know that's a hot that's a hot button topic
to sure. Yeah, but but there are I mean, there
are intangible things all over the place. A good point. Um. Also,
this has been rejected in numerous cases, just like the
federal zone thing. And oh one of the very last ones.
(28:39):
One argument that a lot of tax protesters make is
that the income of individuals is not taxable because income
should only mean corporate profits corporate gain. And as we
learned in one of our recent videos on corporate taxation,
the world of taxes and corporations is incredibly complex, and
(29:00):
some some companies managed to pay very little UM in
income tax for for corporations, which I think is at
what thirty is the standard. It's really interesting in a
research for that particular episode, you start to see more
of the gray areas in the corporations, which I hate
(29:21):
to say because generally I just get upset when I
imagine just the billions of dollars that companies corporations get
away with not paying taxes on. But then you look
around and some of the arguments that we found is
that they may be paying taxes, not necessarily in the US,
but outside to other states, to other countries. Yes, base
(29:44):
if something is based around the world and they're paying,
but it just it still feels somehow unjust. I think
one of the things that bothers a lot of people
is that we all know that the average Jane or
John Doe and a small biz this will almost never
have an entire cadre of top gun level accountants who
(30:06):
are there too, uh to make sure that you don't
have to pay anything. And you know, one of the
big concerns that we raised that video is that after
a certain threshold, is it possible that corporations are sculpting
the laws through via things like ALEC and via other
lobbying initiatives. I think it's more than possible. I think
(30:28):
it's just the outright truth area. Um, So we've run
through some of the biggest tax conspiracy theories, and I
have got to applaud us for not going into the FED,
which is a whole different podcast. However, Matt, at this point,
I have to ask you which of these sounds most
(30:50):
plausible if you had to pick one to go on court.
Oh man, oh, thank you for that question. Then I'll
answer if I had to go in court and argue
for one of these, oh, I would probably. I don't know.
I like I like the freedom of speech one, as
silly as it sounds, just because I can actually see
(31:13):
the connection there. Um, but it's out there. I don't know.
You know what I would go with the Freeman argument.
I would do it. I want to do it. Matt
Frederick sovereign. Matt Frederick is not Matt Frederick the the
corporation or Matt Frederick the company. And uh, you know
it's oh yeah, going back to uh one of the
(31:33):
language things. That's that's fascinating because there are quite a
few separatist groups here in Georgia alone. You know, of
course we're in the state of Georgia. Here in the US,
there are several separatist groups, one of which was, I
think the Sovereign Nation of Georgia. And these guys had
their own license plates, who are making their own ideas
(31:55):
and stuff. But these these separatist groups, especially in such
a huge country, pop up more than you might think
if you just watch mainstream news, because of course mainstream
news is not going to give attention to that kind
of thing. Yeah, it's it's definitely, it's definitely suppressed, but
it definitely happens. And when those guys get busted, one
of the things that get busted for is is that
(32:16):
argument I would go with. I would hedge my bets,
so I would I would get a religious belief or
live in a religious environment, you know, for a good year, right,
And then when it came time to pay my taxes,
I would say that I can't because of my religious beliefs.
And even if I could, I'm protected by the Fifth Amendment.
(32:40):
And then that's it. And if they ever asked me
what the religious beliefs are, hopefully I would have something.
But maybe I would just keep pleading the fifth. I
cannot tell you, well, you just go keep going back.
So I I plead the fifth. Well, but I also
plead the first, so I can't write anything down. I
refused to follow the first admit that due to the
(33:00):
fifth habend, that I will see that incriminate myself through
the freedom of speech. As silly as we're making it sound,
I I just like the fact that it would be
terribly annoying for anyone who's trying to try you just
if you, you know, if you argued the Freeman argument,
or you argued just any of those that are ridiculously complicated,
(33:23):
and uh, I don't I think it would be fun. However,
if you're no neither of us, of course, or any
experts on taxation, UM, nor litigation. But we do know
that there have been cases. Again, thank you to viewers
out there who let us know that there have been
cases wherein in a civil court a jury found that
(33:44):
someone had not committed a criminal act. This is not
the same thing as something that sets a precedent with
a finding. Yeah, there's you know, a court of appeals
or something. This is this is entirely jury trials. But
I was speaking more generally than I should have been
(34:05):
when I said that it's never held up. It has
not held up in cases where a judge is making
the decision. UM. Thank you guys for listening. We do
want to point out before we head out that we're
treating this with a little bit of humor. But the
truth of the matter is this, The Constitution of the
(34:26):
United States is a living document, and the precedent of
litigation only exists because people challenge laws. So I have
immense respect for anyone who is honestly and sincerely going
(34:46):
through the the entire hassle of a of a court
system and risking the danger of imprisonment for something they
believe in. I don't think I don't think it is
inherently wrong to to challenge a law with which you disagree.
That is part of the way the court system is
supposed to work, right. Oh yeah, I applaud anyone that
(35:08):
has you know, that decides they're gonna stand up and
try and fight for what they believe in. Now, I
I know that is also speaking generalizations. I know that
that also potentially encompasses a lot of things with which
I might not agree absolutely. But that's that's part of
what we're supposed to be. Oh wait, we finally got
(35:30):
to say it. That's part of what your tax dollars
pay for. Is the right to uh, is the right
to raise those concerns and uh, you know, if you
are in a jury case, you don't know the the
other twelve people may say, hey, that guy's got a point.
In my case, they would say, hey, that guy with
his weird religion, because I'm just gonna make one up.
(35:51):
He has a point. He shouldn't have to incriminate himself.
And then I'll say, hey, do you guys want to
join my cult? And then I'll say hey, you ever
of jury nullification? And they'll be like, oh, yeah, didn't
that guy get arrested for passing out information about jury ualification?
Um Jury nullification is the idea that a jury can careful,
(36:14):
be careful, Ben, I don't know, are you serious? Yeah, well,
maybe it's a story for another day. We'll look. You
can look up jury nullification. In the meantime, you can
probably also find some stuff on our website about it.
We are stuff they don't want you to know dot com.
We hope you enjoyed this episode. We hope that you
hit us up on Facebook and Twitter. Uh, we can
(36:37):
find us we are a conspiracy stuff at both of
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or all of those social media sites, you can always
send us a good old fashioned email. We are conspiracy
at Discovery dot com. From more on this topic, another
(37:04):
unexplained phenomenon, visit test tube dot com slash conspiracy stuff.
You can also get in touch on Twitter at the
handle at conspiracy stuff.
From UFOs two, Ghosts and government cover ups. History is
riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or
learn the stuff they don't want you to now. Hey, everybody,
welcome back to the show, the show that never ends.
This is stuff they don't want you to know. My
name is Matt and I'm Ben, and today we're talking
(00:23):
about that thing that you love so much, that thing
that just warms your heart every time you have to
do it. Taxes. Yeah, today we are talking about taxes.
And this will be probably the last thing we do
about taxes for a while, or at least the last
thing I do, because when April fifteen came up, which
is when everybody in the US has to pay their taxes,
(00:45):
we started covering so much of this stuff and we
still haven't gotten to all of it. So this is
going to be our opportunity to delve into some of
the history of taxation, the problems people have with it,
and of course the conspiracy theory surrounding it, of which
there are quite a few. Absolutely, So let's just go
ahead and jump right in. Taxes are an ancient idea
(01:07):
and it's basically any any levy that's placed on an
individual or a legal entity like a company or corporation
that's levied by a state or something something to that effect,
a state or a group, and there are legal repercussions
if that levy is not paid, right, you can be
charged with the crime. And this is an ancient, ancient idea.
(01:29):
It dates as far back as Mesopotamia or even the
old Kingdom of Egypt. If you think today's systems blow,
just imagine, you know, having to live back then. Because
in this situation, if you didn't satisfy your your tax
or pay your tribute even it wasn't like they would
(01:50):
take you to a court of law and then charge
you more money. You could be beaten, be killed. It
would take your stuff, and by off I mean like
your family. Uh you know you also wouldn't necessarily pay
with money, right, Yeah, because people weren't necessarily using money
or at least currency of any kind of that time.
So you'd be forced into some kind of labor situation.
(02:14):
Like you said, if your family has to go into
a forced labor or or military service, um conscription of
sorts or digging ditches, like literally digging ditches. Yeah, we're
just giving up the livestock that you have at your
house that you're going to be using for your family.
Right and today, luckily, I think we mentioned this on
a brain Stuff video. Uncle Sam won't physically beat you
(02:38):
for not paying your taxes, but you will get increasing fines. Usually.
The US tax system is huge. And at one level
that's kind of strange, right because uh u s citizens
have never been big fans of taxes. Oh yeah, it's
one of the main reasons for the Revolutionary War. Uh
(03:00):
just you know, we revolted against the British because they
were trying to put taxes on certain things, like really
heavy tax without representation exactly. So that was the first
big thing. We're not being represented, but we're having to
pay all this money. Why the heck would we have
to do that? Right? And of course, um later you
could argue that became a hypocritical thing as we later
(03:23):
evolved into the present tax system we have. But in theory,
the people of the US are represented. Um just a
quick side sidebar here. The idea of um mer cancil
is m as a system you know where where in
this this is what the United Kingdom was doing at
the time. Right, They were saying, okay, colonies, give us
(03:46):
all of your resources, all of your raw goods, and
then you can and we'll buy them for a price
that we set. And then we will also h only
ship manufact your goods. You can only get manufactured goods
from us certain types. And uh, we will tax both
(04:06):
those things we shipped to you and the things that
you are supplying with us. So it goes. You gotta
pay both ways, right right, and your cancel is UM
of course arguably exists today in UM. You know, in
theories that people have about resource extraction by private entities
(04:29):
or by UM even international bodies like the I m
F for World Bank totally has nothing to do with this.
But uh, in the in the early eighteen sixties, Uncle
Sam started collecting the first national income tax. And you'll
hear people say, oh, this is eighteen sixty one, UM,
(04:50):
and it was to pay for the Civil War, or
it was eighteen sixty two or sixty three. But it
culminates in UM in something we'll learn about later when
they actually passed the act. But early eighteen sixties that's
when it That's how long it took us to just say, oh, okay,
now we'll do tax too, yeah exactly. And that was
so the original one was that a flat tax or
(05:14):
a graduated tax, graduated tax, right, Um, but we did
try some other stuff. Right For all those uh, all
those flat tax proponents who say this is a revolutionary
thing and it's something that we absolutely have to do. Um,
don't call it a come back. We tried before, right,
that's right, because that was in eighteen sixty seven when
(05:36):
they tried the flat tax. The only lasted a couple
of years, that would right, Yeah, it's just well anyway,
so five years later, in eighteen seventy two, the national
income tax was actually repealed. Um. It just altogether they
just decided, you know what, this was a bad idea,
We're not going to do this. Um. But the federal
government went back to relying on basically tariffs, which are
(05:57):
kind of it's not mercantilism, but it's kind end of
the same thing where you're just taxing imports, exports, that
kind of thing, right, and excise taxes as well. So,
just to be clear, the US always had some sort
of tax system. People had to pay taxes in one
way or another. They didn't have to pay as many,
(06:19):
but uh, tariffs are not a sustainable model for this
kind of thing at least, and that's what the federal
government found. Things got ugly, things got really ugly. Um.
And a few years later, Congress passed what was called
the Income Tax Act of So this tax two of
(06:42):
personal income that was more than four thousand dollars, which
was a lot of money back then. And uh, but
not a lot of people have that amount of money, right, yeah,
how like we're looking at it. You're looking at again
something that we've talk about the top ten percent. Um,
it's not the one percent back then. But still only
people are affected by this. And the Supreme Court wild out. No,
(07:04):
I'm kidding. They did say it was unconstitutional though. Um,
they said that income tax did not abide by a
specific constitutional guideline. And this is kind of its kind
of a dry thing that doesn't sound important, but it's
part of this story. Here's the guideline. The guideline says
(07:25):
that in the Constitution that any tax levied directly on
people on the citizens asked to be levied in proportion
to a state's population. So you can't just, um, you know,
if we take one of the most populous states, which
would be California, and then we take one of the
(07:46):
least populous states, which would be North Dakota, Eta. Right,
that's unconstitutional. So Congress wild out, I'm kidding about what
they did was doing that than not. But in nine
same year, everybody's favorite Federal Reserve Act has passed. Congress
(08:07):
passed the sixteenth Amendment to get around this, So you know, okay,
so I we're gonna go ahead and read the sixteenth Amendment.
Someone complained that we didn't actually read the sixteenth Amendment
on our video recently about taxes. I just want to
point out that it is there in the very beginning.
If you pause the video as the opening is happening,
the entire text is there. So here it is. The
(08:28):
sixteenth Amendment reads, the Congress shall have the power to
lay and collect taxes on incomes from whatever source derived,
without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to
any census or enumeration. Uh. That was a great read, Nolan.
I both like made eye contact and nodded um in
the affirmative to your read, Matt. So essentially, this gave
(08:52):
the government the power to do what they want, and
it made the changing the constitution made the income tax
finally constitutional, regardless of which state a citizen resides in.
But then another thing happened this year, and that was
the Underwood Tariff Act of ninet. This also had an
(09:13):
income tax section, and it initiated the progressive system that
we're you know, balling out on today. And then fast
forward all the way to the nineteen forties. During World
War two, um, the federal government started using this withholding
tax system, which is kind of it's also known as
pay as you go and and pay as you earn taxation. Yes,
(09:37):
so we have a I did a video for this
on one of our other shows, brain Stuff, which is
just how income tax works. And this is something that
a lot of people need to think about. You know,
you see it all the time in the United States
around tax season. People get so excited and say, I'm
(09:57):
going to get a refund you or the government is
giving me a refund. I can't wait to buy like
a Flying Squirrel series. Yeah, as though it's new money
or somehow it's like, yeah, like your box. I don't
know what. What's ridiculous stuff you could buy with the refund. Well,
for I'm just thinking about my house and the things
that I would have bought if I had gotten a
refund which I didn't. Uh, okay, something I have gotten
(10:21):
something No, well, practical but crazy, like maybe I don't know, um,
some kind of large cage for my dog to run
around in the back. But but it would be a
huge enclosure and it would have all kinds of things
for her to run around and jump on it to
like a habitat. It would be a yeah, massive habitat
for my dog. Yeah, okay, I'm not sure. I think
(10:43):
I would uh take a trip to do something incredibly
impractical and really publicize it. So i'd say, you know, otto,
it's the anniversary of the first performance of the famous
French professional flat less, which is a real thing. Yeah,
I would go there and take pictures of me standing
(11:05):
around pretending to fart in places which I'm sure I'm
sure France would love. Speaking of music, I'm gonna redact
to mine. I'm gonna say I would get. I would
get one of those acritic see through drum kits that
costs like you know what I would I know what
I would do. I would make a music video with
with us like we would do well, you know, we
(11:26):
do money at it. No, would you be down with that? Okay? No,
one would be down with that. Either are called the artists.
Our producer has corrected me, these are fartists, and I apologize.
He was looking it up immediately right he started talking
about it. Yeah, I got the side I for that one. However, Um,
what what we're saying here when we talk about this
(11:47):
thing is that this is not quite the free money
that a lot of people mistake it for your paying
taxes every single time you get a pay check in
the US, right and later, it's just settling the tab.
Does the government owe you money some of the money
(12:08):
that they took from you, or do you owe them
more money than you gave them? So people have been
going absolutely nuts about this ever since. Well, yeah, because
nobody wants to pay that much money. Even even if
you go through and you really think about all the
things you're getting by paying these taxes, it's just something
(12:32):
I think, just deep inside, it feels like you're getting
ripped off, especially if you have to when you settle
up your tab you have to pay even more. I
can totally understand the feeling, but there are a lot
of people think there's more to this story, that it's
not just us paying taxes to get things to get
roads and public education. Uh. People think it goes a
(12:55):
little deeper. Ah, that sounds like you're saying there might
be a conspiratorial angle. Oh yes, Uh so, yeah, it's true.
There are loads of ways to get out of paying taxes,
but they are also a bunch of arguments against paying
taxes at all. Uh. And a lot of these arguments say, hey,
this is a huge conspiracy perpetrated upon you, the citizen.
(13:17):
That's right. One of the ones we found is from
tax dash freedom dot Com and uh it's from this
information comes from Irwin Schiff, and uh. It essentially says
that the entire federal judiciary is involved in this monumental
criminal conspiracy to collect income taxes, uh, in violation of
(13:39):
overall law of the law of the land. And he
has a specific argument for this um which I think
we also have a quote for right, Yes, we do.
Since the income tax was repealed in nineteen fifty four
when Congress adopted the nineteen fifty four Code, it is
clear that for fifty years federal judges have been in
(13:59):
conspiracy the U. S. Department of Justice and prosecutors, and
they have been illegally and criminally prosecuting people for crimes
that do not exist in connection with the tax that
nobody owes. Now, interestingly enough, we have to point out
one thing about her. When shift he was it was
given a thirteen year prison sentence for tax fraud. And
(14:23):
as we know, if quite a few people who are imprisoned,
do you believe in various conspiracy theories? And I don't.
I don't blame them because I mean, there are a
couple that have definitely proven to be true. Private prisons
are incentivized to keep people in prison, right, Oh yeah, sure,
(14:44):
I can totally see how that environment would lead you
to believe there's wrongdoing going on. Well, and and you know,
to be fair, something probably went wrong to get you there.
But you know, we all know that there's corruption across
all of any system. In any system, there is going
to be some form of corruption, so right, and of
course that that's an inevitable thing. We see countless acts
(15:09):
of corruption when it comes to taxation, with frivolous attempts
to dodge tax which carries a five thousand dollar fine
and stuff. But one of the other conspiracies to set this,
to set this up, um, I want to point out
a couple of things. First, the federal government uses tax
(15:30):
dollars to maintain liquidity throughout the year, right, which is
why the pay as you go system works so well
for the government. Um and you know for a lot
of people who prefer the illusion of getting getting a
bunch of money set of a refund. But um, one
(15:51):
thing that is true is that voters have no direct
discretion or control over where their specific dollars go. This
is one of my biggest concerns over taxes. Right. There's
so there's no there's no analytical device to try to
impose that would be nightmarish because there are a lot
(16:13):
of things that people wouldn't want to pay for. Um.
Because the majority of taxpayers in this country are not
the majority of policymakers. Um. And the policymakers often times
have different goals. Yeah, well that's that's that's the terrible truth, right,
because it would be impossible to have a voting system
(16:35):
where we all say, okay, this is where I want
my how I want my tax money apportions, right, and
we have you know, we also have mob rules, so
people could people could freak out about the latest horror
story of the month or trending Facebook thing and then boom,
no more money for I don't know the c d
(16:57):
C or for uh something anyone can get along with roads?
No money for this road, no money for edgy education
or whatever. There's the point being that it would make
the uh stability of the government a very difficult proposition.
But also it means that when you pay taxes, you
(17:19):
may be paying for things that you would not, given
the chance, uh decide to support. So let's go back
to Irwin shift just for a moment, then, uh not
to shift shift gears. I'm sorry, And speaking of things
that ah, that I would support, Ben, I think we
(17:40):
have a word from our sponsor. Well, hello there, sir pie.
Are you tired of paying taxes with money? Uh? Well yeah,
is there something else I can pay with? Oh? I'm
glad you asked. My friends here take this shovel. Okay,
Oh wow, it's pretty hefty that right. Your days of
(18:01):
paying too much tax in cash are over. With our
new patented program, you two can labor directly for your
rulers the same way that the Egyptian pyramids were built.
You'll be digging ditches in place of dropping dollars. Oh
that's fantastic. I've been meaning to get more exercise. This
(18:22):
is great. I can't wait to tell my wife yes
and tell her that Freedom paid dot org sent you. Okay, well,
can I get started right away or is there some
kind of form I have to fill out? Oh? No,
no forms, Just get started and will contact you when
you've done your fair share. All right, it sounds like
I'm gonna I'm gonna be able to afford that addition
(18:44):
to my house now two years later. Okay, So I've
been out on the fields making the ditches for for
two years now. And how we is your experience with
freedom bay Oh? Well, to be honest, that's all the
(19:05):
time we have. Thanks so much for tuning in. Everybody,
Please remember that freedom pay dot org is a nonprofit.
We are here for you. Yes, Freedom pay dot org.
Freedom isn't free, but it's cheaper every day we can
pay dot Org is in no way affiliated with the
(19:27):
United States Government, nor the n s A, the FBI,
T n t A, b C U s A A
Triple A Chairmakers of Kansas. Freedom pay dot Org is
brought to you by Illumination Global Unlimited. And we are
back so now that we're at a good halfway point,
let's dive right into some of the biggest arguments about taxation,
(19:49):
which also incorporate conspiracy, matt um. A lot of times.
It's the little things, right, Yeah, some of the biggest
things are the little list things. So um, one thing
we can talk about or the semantics of taxes and
the way people discuss semantics. Right. It goes back to
the wording of various amendments, um like who are we
(20:15):
the people? What is the difference between income and wages?
Because people argue that wages are not income and that
income itself, for instance, is only derived from investments or
something like that, and that has often been um has
(20:35):
often been kind of dismissed by the courts, and by
kind of, I mean, what's the word with prejudice? Well,
it's okay. We had a great response on our video
series on this because a couple of people pointed out
and correctly, that there were cases where someone argued that
they shouldn't have to pay income tax and they the
(20:58):
jury did find in their favorite. These, however, were civil courts,
not criminal courts, and one of the differences in there
is that a civil court only decides if a crime
was committed and the crime was intentionally committed, and because
there was a jury of the peers that agreed with
(21:19):
the defendant defend, it was found not guilty. And we
love these corrections. And if you check out our video
either on our own website stuff that once you know
dot com or YouTube, you can learn a lot more
about it. But now it's time to talk about the
constitutional arguments. That's right. It's not just the sixteenth Amendment, correct,
(21:42):
that's correct. You can also look at the first Amendment,
freedom of speech. A lot of times people believe that
because you have to write things on a tax form,
it's violating your freedom of speech, okay, or like it
violate your freedom of religion. Um, if you have a
religious objection to paying taxes. But we know that doesn't
(22:04):
really that doesn't really work. There are special codes or
exemptions that and a mom or priest or rabbi or
whomever a religious officer might have. But the U. S.
Court already ruled in a case called Reynolds versus the
United States that you still have to obey the law
(22:25):
no matter how much you believe that it doesn't apply
to you. Yeah, but they'll you know, you might get
a deduction here there for uh, for your religious beliefs. Um,
but you're certainly not exempt to paying the tax if
you're gonna live inside the country. Here's one that's interesting.
It makes sense to me. Um, this surprised me a
by how much it made sense. Could you plead the
(22:46):
fifth to avoid paying your taxes? So let's think so, right,
so you say, look, I r s I'm not gonna
file my taxes because I would be incriminate myself. Yeah. Great,
Oh wow, that's quite ingenious. Did it work? No, it
(23:08):
didn't work. Yeah, that's a good question. Um. There was
a case with US versus Sullivan where Justice Oliver Wendell
Holmes UH said that he well, essentially he said, no,
you're ridiculous. I mean, being a Supreme Court justice. He
(23:29):
didn't say stop being ridiculous, but he did he did
clearly outline why you can't do this. There. I do
like the idea, though, Ben, I have to say, just
at least coming up with that idea and and fighting
it in court, trying, really trying fighting in court that way.
That's I don't that takes moxie. And then there's another
idea here that the takings the word takings in the
(23:53):
in the Fifth Amendments, taking claws means that you can't
take something from a taxpayer unless they receive just compensation.
And uh. The U. S. Supreme Court rejected this one too,
and numerous arguments about due process um have been made
(24:13):
so the idea that you can't be deprived of life, liberty,
and property without due process. But um, there's a huge
list of courts and cases that have flatly rejected this.
I mean, I guess we could read them. It's a
long list. Yeah, I'm not going to read out this
laundry list. If you really want to know all these cases,
just email us at conspiracy at Discovery dot com and
(24:35):
I'll just send it to you. That's probably the easiest
way for us to handle this, sure thing. And agreed.
The thirteenth Amendment is another story. This concerns a guy
named Arthur J. P. He said that the whole sixteenth
Amendment was um inconstitutional because the Okay, here we go,
(24:57):
here's his pitch. I feel like all these guys are
making pictures. Uh. The income tax under the I R.
S Code of ninety nine was involuntary servitude servititude, which
violated the Thirteenth Amendment. And uh, you know he lost
his case. Um do an interesting argument the Sorry not
(25:17):
to glaze over that one, but but the thirteenth Amendment
was one that I found particularly interesting. Just the idea
that we are not citizens of the United States government
as a whole, but we are each citizens of the
state in which we live. That idea, yeah, um, that's
that's interesting because the argument from there would go, therefore,
(25:39):
Washington has no power to tax anybody who's not specifically
on federal land. However, they also there's another argument there
I think that supporteenth Amendment. There's also the argument that
was never properly ratified. This has of course been rejected.
And there's this argument that there's a missing thirteenth Amendment
(26:03):
and the Constitution mat the titles of nobility amendment. So
this sounds rich. I like this. So uh, according to
this story, the unproven story, this would take citizenship away
from any person receiving a title of nobility. Therefore, and
I'm just gonna read this quote. Therefore, actions taken by
(26:23):
lawyers and judges used the title esquire, which protesters claims
as nobility, um, are monarchical and therefore unconstitutional. Interesting. See,
I would want to argue that if you use that
in your name and you are nobility, then you are
above the citizenry and enabled to be taxed. But then
(26:44):
they said, oh, who is this esquire dude trying to
take my thirty plus percent? Um? So how I I'm
just interested here? When when a lot of these arguments
we're reading or in the mid ninth century, late nineteenth century,
when do you think this one came around? Let's say,
(27:06):
I'm gonna guess here. Okay, do I get a whole century?
That's a long time. Um, yeah, yeah, you get a
whole century. It's up to you. Well, it's got to
be the twentieth century. It probably probably right that it
came around then. It was argued as recently it's two
thousand and five. Wow. Really yep, in a case called
(27:26):
Campion versus Towns. It was a defense to a charge
of tax evasion. Okay, so the next one is a
huge argument. I've seen this all over the place. You
can go on YouTube and find a ton of videos
that argue about personal sovereignty or being a sovereign individual
inside a state or a land, and or now they
(27:48):
even call him those natural individuals sometimes and they're basically
saying that they have not requested the things that would
come along with paying your taxes. They don't need to
use the Reese sources and the things that you gain
from paying taxes, therefore they don't have to pay for them.
So and when they say this, they mean stuff like
no food stamps, no unemployment insurance. Typically ignore the intangible
(28:14):
things like um, cleaner environment or general safety. Right, but
you know that's a hot that's a hot button topic
to sure. Yeah, but but there are I mean, there
are intangible things all over the place. A good point. Um. Also,
this has been rejected in numerous cases, just like the
federal zone thing. And oh one of the very last ones.
(28:39):
One argument that a lot of tax protesters make is
that the income of individuals is not taxable because income
should only mean corporate profits corporate gain. And as we
learned in one of our recent videos on corporate taxation,
the world of taxes and corporations is incredibly complex, and
(29:00):
some some companies managed to pay very little UM in
income tax for for corporations, which I think is at
what thirty is the standard. It's really interesting in a
research for that particular episode, you start to see more
of the gray areas in the corporations, which I hate
(29:21):
to say because generally I just get upset when I
imagine just the billions of dollars that companies corporations get
away with not paying taxes on. But then you look
around and some of the arguments that we found is
that they may be paying taxes, not necessarily in the US,
but outside to other states, to other countries. Yes, base
(29:44):
if something is based around the world and they're paying,
but it just it still feels somehow unjust. I think
one of the things that bothers a lot of people
is that we all know that the average Jane or
John Doe and a small biz this will almost never
have an entire cadre of top gun level accountants who
(30:06):
are there too, uh to make sure that you don't
have to pay anything. And you know, one of the
big concerns that we raised that video is that after
a certain threshold, is it possible that corporations are sculpting
the laws through via things like ALEC and via other
lobbying initiatives. I think it's more than possible. I think
(30:28):
it's just the outright truth area. Um, So we've run
through some of the biggest tax conspiracy theories, and I
have got to applaud us for not going into the FED,
which is a whole different podcast. However, Matt, at this point,
I have to ask you which of these sounds most
(30:50):
plausible if you had to pick one to go on court.
Oh man, oh, thank you for that question. Then I'll
answer if I had to go in court and argue
for one of these, oh, I would probably. I don't know.
I like I like the freedom of speech one, as
silly as it sounds, just because I can actually see
(31:13):
the connection there. Um, but it's out there. I don't know.
You know what I would go with the Freeman argument.
I would do it. I want to do it. Matt
Frederick sovereign. Matt Frederick is not Matt Frederick the the
corporation or Matt Frederick the company. And uh, you know
it's oh yeah, going back to uh one of the
(31:33):
language things. That's that's fascinating because there are quite a
few separatist groups here in Georgia alone. You know, of
course we're in the state of Georgia. Here in the US,
there are several separatist groups, one of which was, I
think the Sovereign Nation of Georgia. And these guys had
their own license plates, who are making their own ideas
(31:55):
and stuff. But these these separatist groups, especially in such
a huge country, pop up more than you might think
if you just watch mainstream news, because of course mainstream
news is not going to give attention to that kind
of thing. Yeah, it's it's definitely, it's definitely suppressed, but
it definitely happens. And when those guys get busted, one
of the things that get busted for is is that
(32:16):
argument I would go with. I would hedge my bets,
so I would I would get a religious belief or
live in a religious environment, you know, for a good year, right,
And then when it came time to pay my taxes,
I would say that I can't because of my religious beliefs.
And even if I could, I'm protected by the Fifth Amendment.
(32:40):
And then that's it. And if they ever asked me
what the religious beliefs are, hopefully I would have something.
But maybe I would just keep pleading the fifth. I
cannot tell you, well, you just go keep going back.
So I I plead the fifth. Well, but I also
plead the first, so I can't write anything down. I
refused to follow the first admit that due to the
(33:00):
fifth habend, that I will see that incriminate myself through
the freedom of speech. As silly as we're making it sound,
I I just like the fact that it would be
terribly annoying for anyone who's trying to try you just
if you, you know, if you argued the Freeman argument,
or you argued just any of those that are ridiculously complicated,
(33:23):
and uh, I don't I think it would be fun. However,
if you're no neither of us, of course, or any
experts on taxation, UM, nor litigation. But we do know
that there have been cases. Again, thank you to viewers
out there who let us know that there have been
cases wherein in a civil court a jury found that
(33:44):
someone had not committed a criminal act. This is not
the same thing as something that sets a precedent with
a finding. Yeah, there's you know, a court of appeals
or something. This is this is entirely jury trials. But
I was speaking more generally than I should have been
(34:05):
when I said that it's never held up. It has
not held up in cases where a judge is making
the decision. UM. Thank you guys for listening. We do
want to point out before we head out that we're
treating this with a little bit of humor. But the
truth of the matter is this, The Constitution of the
(34:26):
United States is a living document, and the precedent of
litigation only exists because people challenge laws. So I have
immense respect for anyone who is honestly and sincerely going
(34:46):
through the the entire hassle of a of a court
system and risking the danger of imprisonment for something they
believe in. I don't think I don't think it is
inherently wrong to to challenge a law with which you disagree.
That is part of the way the court system is
supposed to work, right. Oh yeah, I applaud anyone that
(35:08):
has you know, that decides they're gonna stand up and
try and fight for what they believe in. Now, I
I know that is also speaking generalizations. I know that
that also potentially encompasses a lot of things with which
I might not agree absolutely. But that's that's part of
what we're supposed to be. Oh wait, we finally got
(35:30):
to say it. That's part of what your tax dollars
pay for. Is the right to uh, is the right
to raise those concerns and uh, you know, if you
are in a jury case, you don't know the the
other twelve people may say, hey, that guy's got a point.
In my case, they would say, hey, that guy with
his weird religion, because I'm just gonna make one up.
(35:51):
He has a point. He shouldn't have to incriminate himself.
And then I'll say, hey, do you guys want to
join my cult? And then I'll say hey, you ever
of jury nullification? And they'll be like, oh, yeah, didn't
that guy get arrested for passing out information about jury ualification?
Um Jury nullification is the idea that a jury can careful,
(36:14):
be careful, Ben, I don't know, are you serious? Yeah, well,
maybe it's a story for another day. We'll look. You
can look up jury nullification. In the meantime, you can
probably also find some stuff on our website about it.
We are stuff they don't want you to know dot com.
We hope you enjoyed this episode. We hope that you
hit us up on Facebook and Twitter. Uh, we can
(36:37):
find us we are a conspiracy stuff at both of
those and you will see things that you um that
you probably wouldn't see you ordinarily. Nope, they're out of
the ordinary. But If you don't like talking on Twitter
or all of those social media sites, you can always
send us a good old fashioned email. We are conspiracy
at Discovery dot com. From more on this topic, another
(37:04):
unexplained phenomenon, visit test tube dot com slash conspiracy stuff.
You can also get in touch on Twitter at the
handle at conspiracy stuff.
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Matt Frederick
Ben Bowlin
Noel Brown
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