An Exxon lobbyist is caught on camera explaining the villainous logic he used to move members of Congress toward his company's side. Ray Gricar and Jerry Sandusky produce an endless, disturbing rabbit hole. A mysterious murder remains unsolved in Oregon. All this and more in this week's listener mail.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is
riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or
learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A
production of I Heart Radio. Hello, welcome back to the show.
(00:25):
My name is Matt, my name is Nol. They called
me Ben. We're joined as always with our super producer
Alexis codenamed Doc Holiday Jackson. Most importantly, you are you.
You are here, and that makes this the stuff they
don't want you to know, uh, in a very real sense.
Several of our fellow conspiracy realists are here today because
(00:47):
this is our weekly listener Male segment where we share
some of the most fascinating and disturbing at times stories
brought to us by your fellow listeners. Today adventure will
uh take us down a bottomless rabbit hole. It will
take us to some unsolved crime. Uh, and we'll also
(01:08):
see some you know, troubling but oddly hilarious super village
that was unknowingly said on camera. So you're in for
a wild ride, uh, folks. You know, I just think
of one of the best ways to set up this
very first piece listener mail Noel is to maybe maybe
talk a little bit about both your work and my
(01:30):
work with some of the crime shows that we've done
or produced based in the Pacific Northwest, one of which
I believe was called Murder in Oregon that UEPD. Is
that correct, Yeah, it was. It was one of the
projects that I've you know, back when I guess I
had more of the luxury to be able to do so. Um,
it's really hands on with It's been a lot of
(01:50):
time in Salem or again it's just the capital of Oregon.
But it's also like it's not it's not what you
would think of when you think Oregon. We've we've talked
about this before, but ore again, in my mind, has
always been this kind of liberal shining bastion, you know
in the woods. Um. And of course we associate that
with Portland, the dream of the nineties and all of
that Portlandia put a bird on it. Um. People from
(02:10):
Portland probably hate that image. And it's certainly much more
complex a city than that. The rest of Oregon is
is all over the place. I mean, it can get
very rural. Um. And it has a history of corruption.
Uh in law enforcement. UM, A lot of drug trafficking
goes on there. There have been a lot of like
the organized crime there over the years. Gentleman by the
(02:30):
name of Phil Stanford, who I worked with on both
the original season of Happy Face ben u EP the
second season of that show UM and the show Murder
and Oregon. Phil is a crime writer. Uh well, he's
true crime writer kind of almost like a hard boiled
detective type dude. He really is like that, you know,
epitomizes that image, like you picture I'm wearing a trench
(02:51):
coat and you know, carrying around a pad with a
spiral bound pad kind of and like you know, has
some kind of press credentials tucked into his hat. Not exactly,
but he's lived very interest life and he um has
written several books about Portlands and about Oregon and about
the history of corruption in the government and all of
this stuff in terms of vice because it was away
(03:13):
from the prying eyes of the mainstream, because anyone that's
been there knows that Oregon is a very rugged, wilderness
e type place. And Salem Um is a very small town, um,
very sleepy kind of town. Even though it's the capital,
there's a big, you know, government complex. And the story
of Murder and Oregon has to do with the assassination
alleged assassination of a government official who was looking into
(03:36):
corruption in the state prison system, which is based there
in Oregon. UM. Today's story is another corruption and potential corruption,
alleged corruption and just conspiracy angle from the state of Oregon.
And it caught my eye because the the subject of
the email was Oregon the murder conspiracy state question mark.
(03:58):
And this comes from and UM gonna give a quick
quick summary of her email. UM, Hey, guys, this case
of a fifteen year old girl murdered in a small
Oregon coast town back in two thousand holds every required
element of a great suspense film except one thing. Who
did it? We thought we had the answer when the
boyfriend of the victim was convicted of voluntary manslaughter at
two thousand eleven and sentenced to ten years. It would
(04:20):
be almost a decade later when it was discovered that
he didn't do it. He was released, and his filed
a lawsuit against just about any person that was involved
in the investigation, understandably so, UH, claiming he was set up, framed,
including my now deceased father in law, UM, who had
investigated the case originally. UM, I'm gonna leave the rest
of this out for now. But the UH we texted
(04:43):
a bit earlier, and when I mentioned I'd love to
pitch this as a full length episode, she was more
than happy to talk. She has a close direct connection
to this case by family UM and I think would
be a very interesting person to talk to UM in
regards to a full length version of this. But let's
do just go through the kind of broad strokes. She
did a good job of setting it up. But the
gentleman in question, whose name could not be more I
(05:05):
think ironic is the wrong word. It's just perfect. His
name is Nicholas mcguffin. He has to know what a
mcguffin is. It's like, yeah, of course it's a it's
a it's a plot device, you know, particularly used in film. Um,
that's essentially like a red herring, where it is a
thing or a character that is used to distract you
from the real thing or used exclusively to propel the
(05:27):
plot forward. Um, that's a mcguffin. It's sort of like
almost a misdirection. So this perfectly fits that. Because Nicholas mcguffin,
who is now thirty eight, has filed and named multiple
UH Coquil COO's County and Oregon State Police officials in
these multiple lawsuits UM, alleging that they trumped up evidence
(05:50):
against him in order to get their case closed. UM.
Essentially what happened is mcguffin was dating the victim, Leah Freeman,
who was fifteen at the time UM and mcguffin was
believe eighteen. UH. And this all happened in June of
two thousand. UM. Freeman essentially vanished after leaving a friend's
(06:14):
house UM, and one of her shoes was found by
a cemetery UM, and mcguffin was taken in for questioning.
Unbeknownst to him, the intent of bringing him in was
to photograph him and look for defensive wounds, which, of course,
are you know, cuts or things you know that might
have some DNA from the victim, or anything that looks
(06:34):
like he was in an altercation, UM, you know, during
this alleged homicide. UM. But he gets let go and
the case remains cold for almost ten years, no more
than ten years. This is in two thousand UH. In
two thousand eight, UH, a new sheriff comes into town
essentially new whatever. Yeah, I think sheriff is the right word. UM.
(06:57):
And he has a lot of pressure on him to
saw all of this almost decade old case. Uh. He
identifies suspects from the prior investigation, also realizes that like
tons of evidence was poorly handled and misplaced, even like
like there was some evidence that was shipped off to
Scotland Yard in the UK for analysis that they never
(07:20):
got back and they found like all of these un
developed roles of film. So it looks like there's some
negligence dare we say, even incompetence they're going on in
the first place, even um, But we will get into this,
you know, another another time. But essentially they were able
(07:40):
to get enough evidence together based on a shoe that
was found in the cemetery. UM. But by the way
they found the shoe in the cemetery and the initial
investigation not too far from there they found Leah Freeman's
body on like an embankment and in the woods um
and they got a conviction. The case went to a
(08:02):
grand jury and mcguffin was indicted UM and he was
found guilty of manslaughter, which is interesting. It was attend
to two verdict and was sentenced to ten years in prison,
which he spent part of at the Snake River Correctional
Institution and then got sent to a labor camp. Uh.
(08:23):
That's a whole other issue there, um in Oregon's uh
Tillamook State Forest. I guess the labor camp was preferable
because according to an ABC News article about the case
written by Lauren Efron, Karen Schiffman, Joseph Ree, and Ali Young, Um,
it's quite an in depth piece about the whole history
of the case, that was because of good behavior that
(08:45):
he got said of the labor camp. So, I guess
that was, you know, better than being in the Snake
River Penitentiary. But recently, just a couple of years ago, UM,
a Malhure County Circuit senior judge named Patricia Sullivan overturned
mcguffin's case conviction rather um because apparently some of that
(09:05):
evidence was processed uh in the Oregon State Police crime lab.
Um and and they and they knew this at the time,
but did not disclose that they found not only his
DNA on the girl's shoe, but another unidentified man's person's
DNA on the shoe. So um they the judge understandably
(09:27):
ruled that this should have been disclosed and that that
if the jury had known that information, then they would
have probably acted differently. So I think this is a
very interesting case. There's a lot more to it that
have we haven't gone into here, and I'd love to
put it forth for a full episode sometime soon and
and speak to about it as well, because she again
she has direct ties to the case. It's ongoing, um,
(09:49):
and there is a good bit of interesting detail that
we have that that shows that there could well be
a conspiracy of foot uh and and serious corruption going on,
whether it's only to cover up negligence or whether there's
something more nefarious going on there. Um. I think it's
one too to look into further for sure, So more
(10:10):
on that soon, UM. And thank you for that email
and for hipping us to this case. It's definitely there's
a lot of intrigue going on here, and look forward
to digging into it more. But for now, let's take
a quick break and we'll be back with more listener mail.
And we have returned first, this is this is a
(10:33):
listener mail from one of our fellow who conspiracy realists,
but this is also part of a larger conversation and
I'm personally thank everybody who's reached out to the show
or reached out to me one way or another to
ask a question that I have asked the crew off
air before, which is, why haven't we done an episode
(10:54):
about lobby If you're not in the US, you probably
recognize lobbying by its other name, which is bribery, and
it is legalized bribery here or functions in that way. Now,
that's not to say that all lobbyists are bad. There
are many, many groups and individuals who are lobbying the
(11:16):
halls of political power for the kinds of things that
we all think are generally good, like an increase in literacy,
more affordable health care in a country where you know
you can die because you are broke, not because not
because your condition is turbinal, but because you are broke.
So there are people lobbying, right sure, So there there
(11:41):
there no What we're saying is you can't can't throw
the entirety of the big money baby out with the bathwater.
But the rules of comedy do encourage us to punch up,
and so that's why I was so over the moon
to receive uh an email recently from Biker Girl. Biker
(12:05):
Girl did give us their real name, but we're going
to use your nickname because cool nickname, very pro nickname.
Crowd here, that is what we would lobby for. Are
one of the many things. Here's what you said, Biker
Girl sent a link the link of a story that
aren't even interesting to me, and I think several several
of my cohort as well. And uh, biker Girl, all
(12:27):
he said was, now that's a conspiracy. I'm sure you
guys heard about it. It would be cool if you
guys covered it in a podcast. Well, good news, biker Girl. Uh,
you have become the proverbial straw on the podcast Camel's Back.
We're gonna finally do a full episode on the problems
(12:47):
with lobbying, at least in the US. And one great
example of this and and the power that can be
wielded behind the scenes here comes directly from your email.
So one of the many reports about a hapless lobbyist
named Keith McCoy, Chieth McCoy is having a bad month.
(13:10):
Beat a lobbyist can be fraught with complications and sometimes dangerous.
You know, there's a there's a great uh, there's a
great fictionalized series about lobbying called k Street. I believe,
And it was actually pulled after its second season, not
because of ratings. People like the show. It was pulled
(13:32):
at the direction of members of Congress because it's getting
a lot all too close to how the sausage is made,
how the port gets barreled. So Keith McCoy fell for
a prank. It is the age of the Internet. Pranks
are everywhere, you know, don't beat yourself up too bad
if you fall for one. But Keith believes that he
(13:54):
is at a job interview, right, and Keith is being
asked questions about his work with a company we all
probably recognized called ex On Mobile. And he doesn't just
spill the beans. He like takes a figurative can of
(14:15):
beans and one by one rubs them on his face
and then plays with them and you know, puts him
in his mouth and throws him back up a little bit.
And the people were interviewing him, by the way, they
love this because they have no intention of hiring them.
He has been duped by green Peace, which we mentioned
(14:36):
some green Peace activities in a previous episode on France's
terrorist attack in New Zealand right the Rainbow Warrior attack.
So green Peace they're known for their unorthodox um unorthodox protests.
There are un orthodox approaches to things. So activists from
green Peace posed as head hunters and they were going
(14:58):
to do zoom interviews with McCoy as well as a
former x ON lobbyists Dan Easily and McCoy gave an
insider view that was quite embarrassing x On Mobile and
should be I think in no small way distressing to
the average resident of the US or you know, the
resident of the globe. He said, look, ex On Mobile
(15:22):
will publicly support a carbon tax, because we're also working
to make sure it never gets enough support to actually happen.
It was like, we're he was like mac and always
stunny in Philadelphia, where he says, I'm playing both sides
so that I always come out on top. And then
you know, naturally someone's like, well, are you really because
(15:43):
you probably shouldn't say that to me. So he says
that carbon tax is a non starter, and you can
see him saying things, uh. You can see the footage
of this clips from this interview. As a matter of fact,
let's let's play one here. One of the chiefs of
the chief that you can go to the chiefs and saying, well,
(16:05):
we we've had this issue. We need Carressman seller so
to be avanking to introduced this. So we need him
to need him to send the letter name and for
every day. So this guy is all his cards, all
his beans on the table and he's saying, look exon
funds he forbat him says this ex on funds shadow
(16:25):
groups to spread misinformation about climate science. Because this particular
quote from him, did we join some of these shadow
groups to work against some of the early efforts. Yes,
that's true. He says something else important, even more disturbing,
But there's nothing nothing illegal about that. We're looking out
for our investments, We're looking out for our shareholders. And
(16:48):
then he talks about how they single out moderate Democrats
to push them toward the exons primary goal, which is
to you know, avoid increasing costs, avoid legislation that they
think goes too far to combat climate change. Uh, so far,
I want to check in, so this is not just
me monologueing guys. So far did you guys hear about
(17:10):
this story earlier? This is a few days ago. I
did that this is definitely an Apple News like shot
across the bow, and I was like, I think it
was Yahoo news that I initially like that it sent
me to I guess, and it didn't look like much
of an article. It just again, maybe I just don't
use Yahoo News enough and I couldn't ascertain whether it
(17:31):
was real or not, and I didn't take the time
to look into it. Though. I am back on that
article now today Ben and I noticed it pushing out
to a Guardian article that is given me a soft paywall.
I've never seen a paywall with the Guardian, by the way.
Oh wait, I just had to click on something and
said I'll do it later. Okay, Yeah, I think I
(17:52):
gave an email address earlier for the Oregonian too, But
I mean, honestly, is it is it that big of
a surprise? Uh? And you know they got caught, this
is the story, But I just you know, And of
course it's alarming when you hear the stuff like spelled
out in front of you and so starkly lit like this.
But I just can't imagine the kind of conversations like
minded lobbyists in this type of industry have over cocktails
(18:14):
like it's got a gut wrenching sure, but we're at
a bubble informationally, like the things that we understand a
love of our fellow listeners understand as gross and normal
and commonplace would probably astonished and discussed a lot of
other people. Uh. This is terrifically embarrassing for several members
(18:36):
of Congress because McCoy specifically shouts them out. He says,
I talked with Senator Joe Manchin, Democrat from West Virginia weekly.
I talked to his office all the time. He says, Look,
if we need Senator so and so to show up
on the floor to sign something, we need them to
write a letter, we could just ask for it. We'll
get him to do that. Campaign donate some more to
(18:59):
the campaign. And so he says that, of course this
is legal, he doesn't say whether it should be legal. Uh.
He also has a he's also made a splash in
the ongoing debate. Of course, X on Mobile immediately walks
away from this as fast as they can without looking
(19:20):
like they're running. Uh. The CEO Woods said that the
lobbyists comments in no way reflect X on Mobiles position,
which is demonstrably untrue. That's the interesting what's interesting about
that statement is that it is false. Well, the it's
(19:42):
a cover right. The lobbying firms that are employed by
the company are then a cover. So this exact thing,
if this thing happens, it's like paying for insurance. Uh
well that was our lobbying firm, of course. You know
they fight tooth and ale for our interests. But you
know we at x on Mobile would never ever say
(20:06):
those things or believe those things. Yeah again you can
Greenpeace posted the video online and you can see him.
You could say that he's just playing real politic in
a way because he says, Look, no one's going to
propose attacks on all Americans, and the cynical, cynical side
of me says, yeah, we kind of know that, but
(20:26):
it gives us a talking point. We can say, well,
what is x on Mobile for. Well, we're for a
carbon tax because we know it will never happen, because
we were to make sure it will never happen. Yeah.
I just watched this film um that just came out
an HBO Max called No Sudden Move with Don Cheatle
and uh Minicia del Toro. It is and it I
(20:48):
really like it that it uses wide angle lenses very
oddly where every shot, um, the camera moves and there's
distortion on the edges, like if you have a wide
angle that you don't crop in. It's sort of an
old school techniink you get this weird kind of like
almost warping on the edges and vignette effect because it's
a little distracting. But people either seem to love it
or hate it. But I was a little distracted by it,
(21:09):
but overall thought it was a great movie. And maybe
this is a mild spoiler. I think it's pretty clear
from any of the marketing materials. But um, it takes
place in Detroit, and it's about essentially this relationship between
the Big four or the Big five rather um auto
auto manufacturers in Detroit and the idea of the catalytic converter,
(21:30):
the catalytic converter being a thing that for the longest
time was kept out of cars because of lobbyists and
because of collusion with these different companies essentially saying they
could never get it down to a form factor that
would allow it to fit in a car. UM and
it was because they didn't want to spend the R
and D on doing that. They didn't want to pollute
(21:51):
less Um. And that's the kind of things that lobbyists
can really negatively impact. I mean, it's it's kind of egregious.
And going back to the specific example with McCoy, green
Peace has further said they're going to reveal claims that
Exxon fought in secret to prevent a ban on several
toxic chemicals and that Exxon is using a rinse and
(22:12):
repeat strategy for its playbook on climate change to head
off regulations and plastic Remember, folks, it wasn't too long
ago that the was it too long ago that the
corporate powers that be were telling you that the world
was going to hell at a handbasket because you have
the audacity to use a plastic straw. Right, never mind
(22:34):
that in excess of what eight nine something per cent
of the world's of the ocean's plastic waste comes from
commercial fishing. Like, it's all about putting the burden on
the consumer, right, so that the company doesn't have to
pay or compensate for the amount of damage it's doing.
And you know, this becomes very sensitive to a lot
(22:56):
of people, but the issue is not really at this point,
it's not really a matter of where you stand in
the debate over government regulation or private business or you know,
um oversight or liberty or what other whatever other words
are being thrown around at a politician's convenience. This is
about misleading people. This is about transparency, and this is
(23:21):
a matter that will only become more important. If anything,
I feel like we're way overdue for an episode of
on Lobbying. It's probably gonna have to be a two
parter heads up. It's it's a murky business. I've had
connections with lobbyists and again, I'm not painting with a
broad brush. It just very quickly, you know, when we
(23:41):
see this amount of money, this amount of power, and
this lack of transparency, very quickly becomes perfect fertile soil
for all sorts of genuine conspiracies that do affect you,
they affect all of us. So we're gonna pause for
a word from our sponsors. Will be back in a
in a few weeks with with a deep dive into lobbying.
(24:03):
But in the meat time, head over to YouTube. Yes,
in the meantime, head over to YouTube and check out
that check out that interview. Spoiler alert, he didn't get
the job because Green Piece, you know, wasn't actually playing
to hire him and watch our original video. Should lobbying
be banned? And while you're doing that we'll take our
(24:24):
brief break and we'll return with one more piece of
correspondence from you, and we're back then. That reminds me
of that show Drilled. We spoke with one of the
creators and the hosts of that show Drilled. There reminds
me so much of that podcast, right, m all right,
(24:47):
So we're moving on to a message from We're gonna
call this person, Katie. I think that'll work out, Katie says,
I apologize in advance, as this may turn into a
Charlie Day conspiracy board with strings all over. I don't
know if I believe at all, but there are a
bunch of weird things that have happened that may be connected.
(25:08):
I'll try to be brief. There's a ton of rabbit
holes to go down here, depending on how much you
want to ruin your day researching cold trafficking and abuse YEP.
In the mid two thousands, the Center County, Philadelphia District
Attorney Ray Greek Car that's spelled r A Y g
R I c a R disappeared under mysterious circumstances. Eventually,
(25:29):
his computer was found with a hard drive missing. He
had been involved in declining to pursue investigating Jerry Sandusky.
That's uh the penn State Universities um monster anyway, that's
in Center County where he was the district attorney. Heresbury
gets crazy. John DeCamp named Sandusky as involved in child
(25:51):
trafficking and pedophilia in the late eighties early nineties during
his investigation into the Franklin cover up, which we have
spoken about on this show. Before the Franklin cover Up,
another Franklin cover up investigator, Gary Kara Dory, died under
mysterious circumstances in a plane crash after allegedly finding something important.
(26:12):
Maybe Ray Greekr Was changing his mind about Sandusky and
was killed. They have been, as far as I know,
baseless claims that Sandusky and Epstein and even Saville we're
all connected. There's also another mysterious death from two thousand
three in Lancaster County, Pennsylvania of a u S Assistant
Attorney General Jonathan Luna that some conspiracies link with Ray Greekr.
(26:37):
I don't know if it means anything, but it's super weird.
Thanks for reading. Take care, Katie. So there's a lot
of detail, a lot of proper nouns in that message,
from Katie. Thank you Katie for writing to us, but
we're just gonna dip our toes into this one for
today's episode. You can go over to north Central PA
(26:59):
dot com and read this article titled no answers sixteen
years later in disappearance of Center County d a PSP
says k still open. This article was posted February and
again it's talking about sixteen years after this initial disappearance.
(27:19):
I'm gonna give you some of the bullet points here
from what happened to Ray Greekar, at least what we know.
On April fift two thousand five, Ray Greekar told his
girlfriend that he was going to head out for the day.
He wasn't gonna go to work. He was going to
go for a drive, and it appears that he did
just that. He went from his home to a place
(27:41):
called Louisburg, Pennsylvania, and he disappeared. His car was found there,
a Mini Cooper that happened to be read in color.
And inside this vehicle, by the way, they found it
two days later in the seventeenth but they found his
cellular phone which was turned off, and that's a two
thousand five cellular phone. I have no idea what model
(28:03):
of cell phone a district attorney would have that here,
but it's probably pretty nice. Um. They looked for him
for for quite a while to try and find evidence
of you know, perhaps he took his own life. Perhaps
you know something some foul play was involved, but it
was very strange. He was a missing person for for
(28:25):
a while. They turned up his computer, as Katie said
in that email, the hard drive was removed. It was
in the Susquehanna River and you know it had been
degraded quite a bit just from being in a in
a river and you know, not having a hard drive.
So there was no no real evidence picked up on that.
There's a bunch of weird things that could be factors
(28:48):
in here that are difficult to sift through. Because greek
Car was a district attorney, which meant he was the
point person in putting away a lot of people. Anytime
I'm the state or that you know that his district
was going toe to toe with someone too for prosecution.
He was the guy, So he probably made a lot
(29:10):
of enemies. And according to those nearest to him, they
would say that he was very cautious when deciding whether
or not to go forward with the case because he didn't.
You know, you don't want to go against a powerful
person unless you've got, uh an open and shutcase. I
think it's how you'd say, unless you're sure you can
you can prosecute effectively. And but the weird connections here
(29:36):
to Sandusky and some of the other stuff exists, it
would be up to us, you know, in doing some
some intense research here to decide if they're staying to
any of that stuff. The reason why I say that
is because in this article, as well as a few
other articles that have come out since his disappearance, including
one in It's from NBC Channel ten Philade Elfia posted
(30:01):
in two thousand eleven titled d a who never charged
Sandusky has been missing since two thousand five. According to
that article, the original one we were talking about, and
several individual people that were close to him, they think
something else was going on. This wasn't a matter of him,
you know, choosing to disappear, choosing to you know, go
(30:24):
into witness protection or to you know, take his own life.
There's one person in particular we need to mention, a
man named Bob Buner. He's a former Montour County district
attorney who knew Ray really well. And I've got a quote,
two separate quotes here for you. He says, I spoke
(30:46):
with Ray right before he went missing. There was no
way he was remotely suicidal at that time in two
thousand five. He was getting ready to retire in a
few months, eight months to be exact. He was planning
trips across the country. He was going to see his
utter in Seattle, Washington. It was going to visit national parks.
He was going to enjoy himself after thirty five years
(31:06):
of being a prosecutor. Again, this party here is Buner's opinion.
But he does say that his relationship with Patty was
his girlfriend's name Patty for Nicole. I think as how
you say it, Uh, it was very stable. He was
financially sound at that time in two thousand five. So
there aren't a lot of these tell tale signs that
(31:27):
maybe something was wrong that just people around him didn't know.
But again, if something was really wrong, many people wouldn't know.
It's a tough thing. So at least according to Bob,
everything seemed to be going well, and he doesn't at
least believe that he would have done that he does say,
I strongly believe that there are several people who are
(31:48):
still alive who know what happened to Ray, know how
he was lured to Louisbourg, and know what happened when
he was there, because he says that many into Jewels
reached out to him early on in the two five era.
Who said these people reached out to Bob with this information.
(32:10):
He passed it on to investigators. And this is another
quote from Bob. I had a pretty strong sense of
in general who was responsible the actual details, No, but
specifically who did it? Yes, And it's weird because he uh,
just you know, dancing on the precipice of this rabbit hole. Uh.
(32:33):
You get the distinct feeling from this guy that law
enforcement was putting the slow sauce on some of this. Uh,
considering you know that the time, the fact that you know,
he wasn't interviewed until and the fact that he had
people reaching out to him. I believe there was at
least one source alleging that Greek car had quote run
(32:57):
a foul of a person who was in the witness
protection program. That is, I've seen that alleged, but you
know that's from Buna. That's a quote, Yes, exactly exactly.
He's alleging quite a few things here, but not giving
the details because he says he doesn't have the details.
It's like he knows the general information. He believes he
(33:19):
knows the general information. And again he passed on that
those leads I suppose to investigators. Well, he also wants
to be careful as as a professional. He wants to
make sure that he is not saying anything that he
cannot back up. Right. He wants that air tight case.
(33:39):
And you have to be really careful because a misstep
could lead to someone escaping justice. Yeah, exactly. If he
says the wrong thing in an interview and somebody's name
leaks out there, then you're essentially changing public opinion or
possibly changing public opinion through the media before a trial begins,
which can lead to a mistro. I want to reach
(34:00):
you this last thing here because we're not even getting
into the Sandusky stuff yet. I told you about that
article from from NBC that you can check out, and
I'm we're gonna keep going down that rabbit hole. But
as far as that initial investigation into Ray Greekr's disappearance,
the current district attorney of Center County, a man named
(34:21):
Bernie Kintorna, says, quote, it is an open case. The
state police have a lead detective assigned to it. Every year,
we get leads and we follow them up, basically saying, yes,
this is still ongoing. Sorry, I can't talk to you. Essentially, Um,
there is one weird thing, oh man. I found it
on the Charlie Project. So I wasn't even gonna bring
(34:44):
it up, but I'll just mention it here. According to
that site, Ray's brother, Roy greek Car, disappeared under similar
circumstances this this time it was in Dayton, Ohio. In uh. Quote,
he told his wife he was going out to buy
mulch and never returned. Later, his body was pulled from
the Great Miami River and his drowning was ruled a suicide. UM.
(35:10):
So I don't know. That's a bit weird, right, two
brothers going in a similar way. Uh. Raise stuff was
found in the river. That's very strange, very very strange stuff.
Yeah not. I mean, it's not hard proof that they're connected,
but I would agree with your assessment that it is
highly irregular the very least yep, that's it. Not making
(35:32):
any assessments here other than that was weird. Uh yeah,
so there's um, there's a lot more to go on here.
I don't have a lot of answers, Katie, but thank
you for putting us on the case. I'm gonna look
into this further. We all will, hopefully, and maybe there's
a whole episode in here. Yes, yeah, well said. And
(35:53):
you know, thank you, not just too anonymous, not just
to biker Girl, not just to Katie by it, to
everyone who has tuned in, who has written to us
at our email address, who has contacted us on social
or found us via our phone number. We'll give you
all that stuff in just a second. Also, thank you
(36:15):
to everybody who's you know, called my name at a
crossroads at midnight, whisper into a mirror in the dark.
I mean, we try to be easy to find, but
before you resort to a cult means you want to
take a page from your fellow listeners book, why not
find us online? We'd love to hear from you. You
can do that in the usual Internet places of note,
we are conspiracy stuff on Facebook, Twitter, and also YouTube,
(36:39):
where you can find daily stimpets of our audio podcast episodes.
You can also find us on Instagram where we're conspiracy
stuff show not to mention on the telephone right. We
have a phone number one eight three three std w
y t K. When you give us a call, please
tell us what you'd like to refer to you as
it doesn't matter. Can be any cool name or your
(37:01):
real name. Let us know if we can use your
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leave that message. If you've got more you want to
say after that beep happens, I guess when the when
the message system cuts you off. Please, instead of calling
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fashioned email mentioned that you left us a message and
(37:23):
we will put the two together. So yes, please use
our email. It is conspiracy at iHeart radio dot com.
(37:49):
Stuff they Don't want you to know is a production
of I Heart Radio. For more podcasts from my heart Radio,
visit the i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever
you listen to your favorite shows.
From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is
riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or
learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A
production of I Heart Radio. Hello, welcome back to the show.
(00:25):
My name is Matt, my name is Nol. They called
me Ben. We're joined as always with our super producer
Alexis codenamed Doc Holiday Jackson. Most importantly, you are you.
You are here, and that makes this the stuff they
don't want you to know, uh, in a very real sense.
Several of our fellow conspiracy realists are here today because
(00:47):
this is our weekly listener Male segment where we share
some of the most fascinating and disturbing at times stories
brought to us by your fellow listeners. Today adventure will
uh take us down a bottomless rabbit hole. It will
take us to some unsolved crime. Uh, and we'll also
(01:08):
see some you know, troubling but oddly hilarious super village
that was unknowingly said on camera. So you're in for
a wild ride, uh, folks. You know, I just think
of one of the best ways to set up this
very first piece listener mail Noel is to maybe maybe
talk a little bit about both your work and my
(01:30):
work with some of the crime shows that we've done
or produced based in the Pacific Northwest, one of which
I believe was called Murder in Oregon that UEPD. Is
that correct, Yeah, it was. It was one of the
projects that I've you know, back when I guess I
had more of the luxury to be able to do so. Um,
it's really hands on with It's been a lot of
(01:50):
time in Salem or again it's just the capital of Oregon.
But it's also like it's not it's not what you
would think of when you think Oregon. We've we've talked
about this before, but ore again, in my mind, has
always been this kind of liberal shining bastion, you know
in the woods. Um. And of course we associate that
with Portland, the dream of the nineties and all of
that Portlandia put a bird on it. Um. People from
(02:10):
Portland probably hate that image. And it's certainly much more
complex a city than that. The rest of Oregon is
is all over the place. I mean, it can get
very rural. Um. And it has a history of corruption.
Uh in law enforcement. UM, A lot of drug trafficking
goes on there. There have been a lot of like
the organized crime there over the years. Gentleman by the
(02:30):
name of Phil Stanford, who I worked with on both
the original season of Happy Face ben u EP the
second season of that show UM and the show Murder
and Oregon. Phil is a crime writer. Uh well, he's
true crime writer kind of almost like a hard boiled
detective type dude. He really is like that, you know,
epitomizes that image, like you picture I'm wearing a trench
(02:51):
coat and you know, carrying around a pad with a
spiral bound pad kind of and like you know, has
some kind of press credentials tucked into his hat. Not exactly,
but he's lived very interest life and he um has
written several books about Portlands and about Oregon and about
the history of corruption in the government and all of
this stuff in terms of vice because it was away
(03:13):
from the prying eyes of the mainstream, because anyone that's
been there knows that Oregon is a very rugged, wilderness
e type place. And Salem Um is a very small town, um,
very sleepy kind of town. Even though it's the capital,
there's a big, you know, government complex. And the story
of Murder and Oregon has to do with the assassination
alleged assassination of a government official who was looking into
(03:36):
corruption in the state prison system, which is based there
in Oregon. UM. Today's story is another corruption and potential corruption,
alleged corruption and just conspiracy angle from the state of Oregon.
And it caught my eye because the the subject of
the email was Oregon the murder conspiracy state question mark.
(03:58):
And this comes from and UM gonna give a quick
quick summary of her email. UM, Hey, guys, this case
of a fifteen year old girl murdered in a small
Oregon coast town back in two thousand holds every required
element of a great suspense film except one thing. Who
did it? We thought we had the answer when the
boyfriend of the victim was convicted of voluntary manslaughter at
two thousand eleven and sentenced to ten years. It would
(04:20):
be almost a decade later when it was discovered that
he didn't do it. He was released, and his filed
a lawsuit against just about any person that was involved
in the investigation, understandably so, UH, claiming he was set up, framed,
including my now deceased father in law, UM, who had
investigated the case originally. UM, I'm gonna leave the rest
of this out for now. But the UH we texted
(04:43):
a bit earlier, and when I mentioned I'd love to
pitch this as a full length episode, she was more
than happy to talk. She has a close direct connection
to this case by family UM and I think would
be a very interesting person to talk to UM in
regards to a full length version of this. But let's
do just go through the kind of broad strokes. She
did a good job of setting it up. But the
gentleman in question, whose name could not be more I
(05:05):
think ironic is the wrong word. It's just perfect. His
name is Nicholas mcguffin. He has to know what a
mcguffin is. It's like, yeah, of course it's a it's
a it's a plot device, you know, particularly used in film. Um,
that's essentially like a red herring, where it is a
thing or a character that is used to distract you
from the real thing or used exclusively to propel the
(05:27):
plot forward. Um, that's a mcguffin. It's sort of like
almost a misdirection. So this perfectly fits that. Because Nicholas mcguffin,
who is now thirty eight, has filed and named multiple
UH Coquil COO's County and Oregon State Police officials in
these multiple lawsuits UM, alleging that they trumped up evidence
(05:50):
against him in order to get their case closed. UM.
Essentially what happened is mcguffin was dating the victim, Leah Freeman,
who was fifteen at the time UM and mcguffin was
believe eighteen. UH. And this all happened in June of
two thousand. UM. Freeman essentially vanished after leaving a friend's
(06:14):
house UM, and one of her shoes was found by
a cemetery UM, and mcguffin was taken in for questioning.
Unbeknownst to him, the intent of bringing him in was
to photograph him and look for defensive wounds, which, of course,
are you know, cuts or things you know that might
have some DNA from the victim, or anything that looks
(06:34):
like he was in an altercation, UM, you know, during
this alleged homicide. UM. But he gets let go and
the case remains cold for almost ten years, no more
than ten years. This is in two thousand UH. In
two thousand eight, UH, a new sheriff comes into town
essentially new whatever. Yeah, I think sheriff is the right word. UM.
(06:57):
And he has a lot of pressure on him to
saw all of this almost decade old case. Uh. He
identifies suspects from the prior investigation, also realizes that like
tons of evidence was poorly handled and misplaced, even like
like there was some evidence that was shipped off to
Scotland Yard in the UK for analysis that they never
(07:20):
got back and they found like all of these un
developed roles of film. So it looks like there's some
negligence dare we say, even incompetence they're going on in
the first place, even um, But we will get into this,
you know, another another time. But essentially they were able
(07:40):
to get enough evidence together based on a shoe that
was found in the cemetery. UM. But by the way
they found the shoe in the cemetery and the initial
investigation not too far from there they found Leah Freeman's
body on like an embankment and in the woods um
and they got a conviction. The case went to a
(08:02):
grand jury and mcguffin was indicted UM and he was
found guilty of manslaughter, which is interesting. It was attend
to two verdict and was sentenced to ten years in prison,
which he spent part of at the Snake River Correctional
Institution and then got sent to a labor camp. Uh.
(08:23):
That's a whole other issue there, um in Oregon's uh
Tillamook State Forest. I guess the labor camp was preferable
because according to an ABC News article about the case
written by Lauren Efron, Karen Schiffman, Joseph Ree, and Ali Young, Um,
it's quite an in depth piece about the whole history
of the case, that was because of good behavior that
(08:45):
he got said of the labor camp. So, I guess
that was, you know, better than being in the Snake
River Penitentiary. But recently, just a couple of years ago, UM,
a Malhure County Circuit senior judge named Patricia Sullivan overturned
mcguffin's case conviction rather um because apparently some of that
(09:05):
evidence was processed uh in the Oregon State Police crime lab.
Um and and they and they knew this at the time,
but did not disclose that they found not only his
DNA on the girl's shoe, but another unidentified man's person's
DNA on the shoe. So um they the judge understandably
(09:27):
ruled that this should have been disclosed and that that
if the jury had known that information, then they would
have probably acted differently. So I think this is a
very interesting case. There's a lot more to it that
have we haven't gone into here, and I'd love to
put it forth for a full episode sometime soon and
and speak to about it as well, because she again
she has direct ties to the case. It's ongoing, um,
(09:49):
and there is a good bit of interesting detail that
we have that that shows that there could well be
a conspiracy of foot uh and and serious corruption going on,
whether it's only to cover up negligence or whether there's
something more nefarious going on there. Um. I think it's
one too to look into further for sure, So more
(10:10):
on that soon, UM. And thank you for that email
and for hipping us to this case. It's definitely there's
a lot of intrigue going on here, and look forward
to digging into it more. But for now, let's take
a quick break and we'll be back with more listener mail.
And we have returned first, this is this is a
(10:33):
listener mail from one of our fellow who conspiracy realists,
but this is also part of a larger conversation and
I'm personally thank everybody who's reached out to the show
or reached out to me one way or another to
ask a question that I have asked the crew off
air before, which is, why haven't we done an episode
(10:54):
about lobby If you're not in the US, you probably
recognize lobbying by its other name, which is bribery, and
it is legalized bribery here or functions in that way. Now,
that's not to say that all lobbyists are bad. There
are many, many groups and individuals who are lobbying the
(11:16):
halls of political power for the kinds of things that
we all think are generally good, like an increase in literacy,
more affordable health care in a country where you know
you can die because you are broke, not because not
because your condition is turbinal, but because you are broke.
So there are people lobbying, right sure, So there there
(11:41):
there no What we're saying is you can't can't throw
the entirety of the big money baby out with the bathwater.
But the rules of comedy do encourage us to punch up,
and so that's why I was so over the moon
to receive uh an email recently from Biker Girl. Biker
(12:05):
Girl did give us their real name, but we're going
to use your nickname because cool nickname, very pro nickname.
Crowd here, that is what we would lobby for. Are
one of the many things. Here's what you said, Biker
Girl sent a link the link of a story that
aren't even interesting to me, and I think several several
of my cohort as well. And uh, biker Girl, all
(12:27):
he said was, now that's a conspiracy. I'm sure you
guys heard about it. It would be cool if you
guys covered it in a podcast. Well, good news, biker Girl. Uh,
you have become the proverbial straw on the podcast Camel's Back.
We're gonna finally do a full episode on the problems
(12:47):
with lobbying, at least in the US. And one great
example of this and and the power that can be
wielded behind the scenes here comes directly from your email.
So one of the many reports about a hapless lobbyist
named Keith McCoy, Chieth McCoy is having a bad month.
(13:10):
Beat a lobbyist can be fraught with complications and sometimes dangerous.
You know, there's a there's a great uh, there's a
great fictionalized series about lobbying called k Street. I believe,
And it was actually pulled after its second season, not
because of ratings. People like the show. It was pulled
(13:32):
at the direction of members of Congress because it's getting
a lot all too close to how the sausage is made,
how the port gets barreled. So Keith McCoy fell for
a prank. It is the age of the Internet. Pranks
are everywhere, you know, don't beat yourself up too bad
if you fall for one. But Keith believes that he
(13:54):
is at a job interview, right, and Keith is being
asked questions about his work with a company we all
probably recognized called ex On Mobile. And he doesn't just
spill the beans. He like takes a figurative can of
(14:15):
beans and one by one rubs them on his face
and then plays with them and you know, puts him
in his mouth and throws him back up a little bit.
And the people were interviewing him, by the way, they
love this because they have no intention of hiring them.
He has been duped by green Peace, which we mentioned
(14:36):
some green Peace activities in a previous episode on France's
terrorist attack in New Zealand right the Rainbow Warrior attack.
So green Peace they're known for their unorthodox um unorthodox protests.
There are un orthodox approaches to things. So activists from
green Peace posed as head hunters and they were going
(14:58):
to do zoom interviews with McCoy as well as a
former x ON lobbyists Dan Easily and McCoy gave an
insider view that was quite embarrassing x On Mobile and
should be I think in no small way distressing to
the average resident of the US or you know, the
resident of the globe. He said, look, ex On Mobile
(15:22):
will publicly support a carbon tax, because we're also working
to make sure it never gets enough support to actually happen.
It was like, we're he was like mac and always
stunny in Philadelphia, where he says, I'm playing both sides
so that I always come out on top. And then
you know, naturally someone's like, well, are you really because
(15:43):
you probably shouldn't say that to me. So he says
that carbon tax is a non starter, and you can
see him saying things, uh. You can see the footage
of this clips from this interview. As a matter of fact,
let's let's play one here. One of the chiefs of
the chief that you can go to the chiefs and saying, well,
(16:05):
we we've had this issue. We need Carressman seller so
to be avanking to introduced this. So we need him
to need him to send the letter name and for
every day. So this guy is all his cards, all
his beans on the table and he's saying, look exon
funds he forbat him says this ex on funds shadow
(16:25):
groups to spread misinformation about climate science. Because this particular
quote from him, did we join some of these shadow
groups to work against some of the early efforts. Yes,
that's true. He says something else important, even more disturbing,
But there's nothing nothing illegal about that. We're looking out
for our investments, We're looking out for our shareholders. And
(16:48):
then he talks about how they single out moderate Democrats
to push them toward the exons primary goal, which is
to you know, avoid increasing costs, avoid legislation that they
think goes too far to combat climate change. Uh, so far,
I want to check in, so this is not just
me monologueing guys. So far did you guys hear about
(17:10):
this story earlier? This is a few days ago. I
did that this is definitely an Apple News like shot
across the bow, and I was like, I think it
was Yahoo news that I initially like that it sent
me to I guess, and it didn't look like much
of an article. It just again, maybe I just don't
use Yahoo News enough and I couldn't ascertain whether it
(17:31):
was real or not, and I didn't take the time
to look into it. Though. I am back on that
article now today Ben and I noticed it pushing out
to a Guardian article that is given me a soft paywall.
I've never seen a paywall with the Guardian, by the way.
Oh wait, I just had to click on something and
said I'll do it later. Okay, Yeah, I think I
(17:52):
gave an email address earlier for the Oregonian too, But
I mean, honestly, is it is it that big of
a surprise? Uh? And you know they got caught, this
is the story, But I just you know, And of
course it's alarming when you hear the stuff like spelled
out in front of you and so starkly lit like this.
But I just can't imagine the kind of conversations like
minded lobbyists in this type of industry have over cocktails
(18:14):
like it's got a gut wrenching sure, but we're at
a bubble informationally, like the things that we understand a
love of our fellow listeners understand as gross and normal
and commonplace would probably astonished and discussed a lot of
other people. Uh. This is terrifically embarrassing for several members
(18:36):
of Congress because McCoy specifically shouts them out. He says,
I talked with Senator Joe Manchin, Democrat from West Virginia weekly.
I talked to his office all the time. He says, Look,
if we need Senator so and so to show up
on the floor to sign something, we need them to
write a letter, we could just ask for it. We'll
get him to do that. Campaign donate some more to
(18:59):
the campaign. And so he says that, of course this
is legal, he doesn't say whether it should be legal. Uh.
He also has a he's also made a splash in
the ongoing debate. Of course, X on Mobile immediately walks
away from this as fast as they can without looking
(19:20):
like they're running. Uh. The CEO Woods said that the
lobbyists comments in no way reflect X on Mobiles position,
which is demonstrably untrue. That's the interesting what's interesting about
that statement is that it is false. Well, the it's
(19:42):
a cover right. The lobbying firms that are employed by
the company are then a cover. So this exact thing,
if this thing happens, it's like paying for insurance. Uh
well that was our lobbying firm, of course. You know
they fight tooth and ale for our interests. But you
know we at x on Mobile would never ever say
(20:06):
those things or believe those things. Yeah again you can
Greenpeace posted the video online and you can see him.
You could say that he's just playing real politic in
a way because he says, Look, no one's going to
propose attacks on all Americans, and the cynical, cynical side
of me says, yeah, we kind of know that, but
(20:26):
it gives us a talking point. We can say, well,
what is x on Mobile for. Well, we're for a
carbon tax because we know it will never happen, because
we were to make sure it will never happen. Yeah.
I just watched this film um that just came out
an HBO Max called No Sudden Move with Don Cheatle
and uh Minicia del Toro. It is and it I
(20:48):
really like it that it uses wide angle lenses very
oddly where every shot, um, the camera moves and there's
distortion on the edges, like if you have a wide
angle that you don't crop in. It's sort of an
old school techniink you get this weird kind of like
almost warping on the edges and vignette effect because it's
a little distracting. But people either seem to love it
or hate it. But I was a little distracted by it,
(21:09):
but overall thought it was a great movie. And maybe
this is a mild spoiler. I think it's pretty clear
from any of the marketing materials. But um, it takes
place in Detroit, and it's about essentially this relationship between
the Big four or the Big five rather um auto
auto manufacturers in Detroit and the idea of the catalytic converter,
(21:30):
the catalytic converter being a thing that for the longest
time was kept out of cars because of lobbyists and
because of collusion with these different companies essentially saying they
could never get it down to a form factor that
would allow it to fit in a car. UM and
it was because they didn't want to spend the R
and D on doing that. They didn't want to pollute
(21:51):
less Um. And that's the kind of things that lobbyists
can really negatively impact. I mean, it's it's kind of egregious.
And going back to the specific example with McCoy, green
Peace has further said they're going to reveal claims that
Exxon fought in secret to prevent a ban on several
toxic chemicals and that Exxon is using a rinse and
(22:12):
repeat strategy for its playbook on climate change to head
off regulations and plastic Remember, folks, it wasn't too long
ago that the was it too long ago that the
corporate powers that be were telling you that the world
was going to hell at a handbasket because you have
the audacity to use a plastic straw. Right, never mind
(22:34):
that in excess of what eight nine something per cent
of the world's of the ocean's plastic waste comes from
commercial fishing. Like, it's all about putting the burden on
the consumer, right, so that the company doesn't have to
pay or compensate for the amount of damage it's doing.
And you know, this becomes very sensitive to a lot
(22:56):
of people, but the issue is not really at this point,
it's not really a matter of where you stand in
the debate over government regulation or private business or you know,
um oversight or liberty or what other whatever other words
are being thrown around at a politician's convenience. This is
about misleading people. This is about transparency, and this is
(23:21):
a matter that will only become more important. If anything,
I feel like we're way overdue for an episode of
on Lobbying. It's probably gonna have to be a two
parter heads up. It's it's a murky business. I've had
connections with lobbyists and again, I'm not painting with a
broad brush. It just very quickly, you know, when we
(23:41):
see this amount of money, this amount of power, and
this lack of transparency, very quickly becomes perfect fertile soil
for all sorts of genuine conspiracies that do affect you,
they affect all of us. So we're gonna pause for
a word from our sponsors. Will be back in a
in a few weeks with with a deep dive into lobbying.
(24:03):
But in the meat time, head over to YouTube. Yes,
in the meantime, head over to YouTube and check out
that check out that interview. Spoiler alert, he didn't get
the job because Green Piece, you know, wasn't actually playing
to hire him and watch our original video. Should lobbying
be banned? And while you're doing that we'll take our
(24:24):
brief break and we'll return with one more piece of
correspondence from you, and we're back then. That reminds me
of that show Drilled. We spoke with one of the
creators and the hosts of that show Drilled. There reminds
me so much of that podcast, right, m all right,
(24:47):
So we're moving on to a message from We're gonna
call this person, Katie. I think that'll work out, Katie says,
I apologize in advance, as this may turn into a
Charlie Day conspiracy board with strings all over. I don't
know if I believe at all, but there are a
bunch of weird things that have happened that may be connected.
(25:08):
I'll try to be brief. There's a ton of rabbit
holes to go down here, depending on how much you
want to ruin your day researching cold trafficking and abuse YEP.
In the mid two thousands, the Center County, Philadelphia District
Attorney Ray Greek Car that's spelled r A Y g
R I c a R disappeared under mysterious circumstances. Eventually,
(25:29):
his computer was found with a hard drive missing. He
had been involved in declining to pursue investigating Jerry Sandusky.
That's uh the penn State Universities um monster anyway, that's
in Center County where he was the district attorney. Heresbury
gets crazy. John DeCamp named Sandusky as involved in child
(25:51):
trafficking and pedophilia in the late eighties early nineties during
his investigation into the Franklin cover up, which we have
spoken about on this show. Before the Franklin cover Up,
another Franklin cover up investigator, Gary Kara Dory, died under
mysterious circumstances in a plane crash after allegedly finding something important.
(26:12):
Maybe Ray Greekr Was changing his mind about Sandusky and
was killed. They have been, as far as I know,
baseless claims that Sandusky and Epstein and even Saville we're
all connected. There's also another mysterious death from two thousand
three in Lancaster County, Pennsylvania of a u S Assistant
Attorney General Jonathan Luna that some conspiracies link with Ray Greekr.
(26:37):
I don't know if it means anything, but it's super weird.
Thanks for reading. Take care, Katie. So there's a lot
of detail, a lot of proper nouns in that message,
from Katie. Thank you Katie for writing to us, but
we're just gonna dip our toes into this one for
today's episode. You can go over to north Central PA
(26:59):
dot com and read this article titled no answers sixteen
years later in disappearance of Center County d a PSP
says k still open. This article was posted February and
again it's talking about sixteen years after this initial disappearance.
(27:19):
I'm gonna give you some of the bullet points here
from what happened to Ray Greekar, at least what we know.
On April fift two thousand five, Ray Greekar told his
girlfriend that he was going to head out for the day.
He wasn't gonna go to work. He was going to
go for a drive, and it appears that he did
just that. He went from his home to a place
(27:41):
called Louisburg, Pennsylvania, and he disappeared. His car was found there,
a Mini Cooper that happened to be read in color.
And inside this vehicle, by the way, they found it
two days later in the seventeenth but they found his
cellular phone which was turned off, and that's a two
thousand five cellular phone. I have no idea what model
(28:03):
of cell phone a district attorney would have that here,
but it's probably pretty nice. Um. They looked for him
for for quite a while to try and find evidence
of you know, perhaps he took his own life. Perhaps
you know something some foul play was involved, but it
was very strange. He was a missing person for for
(28:25):
a while. They turned up his computer, as Katie said
in that email, the hard drive was removed. It was
in the Susquehanna River and you know it had been
degraded quite a bit just from being in a in
a river and you know, not having a hard drive.
So there was no no real evidence picked up on that.
There's a bunch of weird things that could be factors
(28:48):
in here that are difficult to sift through. Because greek
Car was a district attorney, which meant he was the
point person in putting away a lot of people. Anytime
I'm the state or that you know that his district
was going toe to toe with someone too for prosecution.
He was the guy, So he probably made a lot
(29:10):
of enemies. And according to those nearest to him, they
would say that he was very cautious when deciding whether
or not to go forward with the case because he didn't.
You know, you don't want to go against a powerful
person unless you've got, uh an open and shutcase. I
think it's how you'd say, unless you're sure you can
you can prosecute effectively. And but the weird connections here
(29:36):
to Sandusky and some of the other stuff exists, it
would be up to us, you know, in doing some
some intense research here to decide if they're staying to
any of that stuff. The reason why I say that
is because in this article, as well as a few
other articles that have come out since his disappearance, including
one in It's from NBC Channel ten Philade Elfia posted
(30:01):
in two thousand eleven titled d a who never charged
Sandusky has been missing since two thousand five. According to
that article, the original one we were talking about, and
several individual people that were close to him, they think
something else was going on. This wasn't a matter of him,
you know, choosing to disappear, choosing to you know, go
(30:24):
into witness protection or to you know, take his own life.
There's one person in particular we need to mention, a
man named Bob Buner. He's a former Montour County district
attorney who knew Ray really well. And I've got a quote,
two separate quotes here for you. He says, I spoke
(30:46):
with Ray right before he went missing. There was no
way he was remotely suicidal at that time in two
thousand five. He was getting ready to retire in a
few months, eight months to be exact. He was planning
trips across the country. He was going to see his
utter in Seattle, Washington. It was going to visit national parks.
He was going to enjoy himself after thirty five years
(31:06):
of being a prosecutor. Again, this party here is Buner's opinion.
But he does say that his relationship with Patty was
his girlfriend's name Patty for Nicole. I think as how
you say it, Uh, it was very stable. He was
financially sound at that time in two thousand five. So
there aren't a lot of these tell tale signs that
(31:27):
maybe something was wrong that just people around him didn't know.
But again, if something was really wrong, many people wouldn't know.
It's a tough thing. So at least according to Bob,
everything seemed to be going well, and he doesn't at
least believe that he would have done that he does say,
I strongly believe that there are several people who are
(31:48):
still alive who know what happened to Ray, know how
he was lured to Louisbourg, and know what happened when
he was there, because he says that many into Jewels
reached out to him early on in the two five era.
Who said these people reached out to Bob with this information.
(32:10):
He passed it on to investigators. And this is another
quote from Bob. I had a pretty strong sense of
in general who was responsible the actual details, No, but
specifically who did it? Yes, And it's weird because he uh,
just you know, dancing on the precipice of this rabbit hole. Uh.
(32:33):
You get the distinct feeling from this guy that law
enforcement was putting the slow sauce on some of this. Uh,
considering you know that the time, the fact that you know,
he wasn't interviewed until and the fact that he had
people reaching out to him. I believe there was at
least one source alleging that Greek car had quote run
(32:57):
a foul of a person who was in the witness
protection program. That is, I've seen that alleged, but you
know that's from Buna. That's a quote, Yes, exactly exactly.
He's alleging quite a few things here, but not giving
the details because he says he doesn't have the details.
It's like he knows the general information. He believes he
(33:19):
knows the general information. And again he passed on that
those leads I suppose to investigators. Well, he also wants
to be careful as as a professional. He wants to
make sure that he is not saying anything that he
cannot back up. Right. He wants that air tight case.
(33:39):
And you have to be really careful because a misstep
could lead to someone escaping justice. Yeah, exactly. If he
says the wrong thing in an interview and somebody's name
leaks out there, then you're essentially changing public opinion or
possibly changing public opinion through the media before a trial begins,
which can lead to a mistro. I want to reach
(34:00):
you this last thing here because we're not even getting
into the Sandusky stuff yet. I told you about that
article from from NBC that you can check out, and
I'm we're gonna keep going down that rabbit hole. But
as far as that initial investigation into Ray Greekr's disappearance,
the current district attorney of Center County, a man named
(34:21):
Bernie Kintorna, says, quote, it is an open case. The
state police have a lead detective assigned to it. Every year,
we get leads and we follow them up, basically saying, yes,
this is still ongoing. Sorry, I can't talk to you. Essentially, Um,
there is one weird thing, oh man. I found it
on the Charlie Project. So I wasn't even gonna bring
(34:44):
it up, but I'll just mention it here. According to
that site, Ray's brother, Roy greek Car, disappeared under similar
circumstances this this time it was in Dayton, Ohio. In uh. Quote,
he told his wife he was going out to buy
mulch and never returned. Later, his body was pulled from
the Great Miami River and his drowning was ruled a suicide. UM.
(35:10):
So I don't know. That's a bit weird, right, two
brothers going in a similar way. Uh. Raise stuff was
found in the river. That's very strange, very very strange stuff.
Yeah not. I mean, it's not hard proof that they're connected,
but I would agree with your assessment that it is
highly irregular the very least yep, that's it. Not making
(35:32):
any assessments here other than that was weird. Uh yeah,
so there's um, there's a lot more to go on here.
I don't have a lot of answers, Katie, but thank
you for putting us on the case. I'm gonna look
into this further. We all will, hopefully, and maybe there's
a whole episode in here. Yes, yeah, well said. And
(35:53):
you know, thank you, not just too anonymous, not just
to biker Girl, not just to Katie by it, to
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(36:15):
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(36:39):
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(37:01):
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