A listener from Canada assures the guys sinister weirdness continues up north. A voicemail dives into actor Cary Grant's experiences with LSD. Banks calls to ask about how the US military infiltrated the world of professional sports. All this and more in this week's Listener Mail.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is
riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or
learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A
production of I Heart Radio. Hello, welcome back to the show.
(00:25):
My name is Matt, my name is Noel. They called
me Ben. We're joined as always with our super producer
Alexis code named Doc Holiday Jackson. Most importantly, you are you.
You are here, and that makes this stuff they don't
want you to know. It's time yet again when we
hear from our favorite part of the show, you, specifically
(00:46):
you and your fellow listeners. We've got We've got quite
a ride here. We've been receiving UM some incredible correspondence
both at our phone number one eight three three s
T d W y T, some fantastic emails to conspiracy
at iHeart radio dot com and UM. We've had a
lot of people reaching out to us to follow up
(01:08):
on some specific episodes in some some really interesting ways,
including UM. Some stories about Canada that we do want
to warn you in advance may not be suitable for
all our audience members, including a great story about Carrie
Grant and found somewhat inspiring and a story from Banks
(01:32):
Banks you called us in response to the military entertainment complex,
and I think that was for our crew recording that
that episode was pretty illuminating because I think we all
kind of knew what was going on, but I don't
were you guys aware of the extent of it before
we dove into it, not to the detail right, Like
(01:54):
you said, the wider picture, I think is assumed a lot,
but you isn't backed up with facts and in the
minutia very often. And we got a lot of people
who route in regarding specifically our episode on the military
entertainment complex because it's it's just as active as the
(02:15):
military industrial complex, but it's not acknowledged near as openly.
And the you know, the weirdest thing that I thought
would be a good a good level center here is
I looked at the budget of the US military, the
official figure, which is probably smaller than the actual money spent.
(02:39):
It's over nine hundred and eighty billion dollars, which means
that if we if the military was a country, it's
budget would be higher that it would have the let
me see, let me think it would have the seventeen
highest GDP in the world. Just above to Key and
(03:00):
just a little bit under Indonesia, so it's it's very
much a country of its own and it has the
powers the countries have. So Banks, you opened a door
for us when you called in and told us this. Hey, guys,
my name is Banks. I am ex military, and I
(03:21):
was telling about the episode on the Military Entertainment Complex.
While I enjoyed the episode, you guys missed out on
one critical aspect of it, and that is the military
integration with the UH professional sports and how it trickled
(03:43):
down to college and high school and so forth. I
thought that was a good opportunity to um explain how
the military guy involved with sports in the first place.
Thank you now jealous to you guys, Banks, thank you
so much for calling in. Uh several people had raised
the same point, and UH, you know, originally, when we
(04:07):
were diving into the story of the military Entertainment Complex,
we knew that this kind of felt like a multipart
episode and we stayed away from the world of sports.
But you are absolutely right. This does deserve an explanation
because it's like, you know, how if you travel anywhere
(04:30):
else in the world outside of the US, you'll notice
that there aren't pharmaceutical commercials on television. That's because they're
illegal and much of the rest of the world. And
it's weird that we consider it normal. It's also kind
of weird that we consider it normal to have the
military involved so heavily in the world of professional sports. Uh.
(04:55):
The Pentagon has between two thousand, twelve and two thousand
fift spent tens of millions of dollars fifty three million
dollars just just in that short span of years to
pay these different uh, these different teams, and these these
different owners and these different associations to present the military
(05:20):
in a patriotic light that helps for domestic support and
of course helps for recruitment. I think one of the
biggest surprises for a lot of people is, you know,
if you've ever had a soccer game, or you know
football to the rest of the world, or you know,
a baseball game, whatever, it's not surprising to see someone
be honored for their military service. Right like, there will
(05:43):
be a pause, maybe it's like a the beginning of
the game or something. They say, we're gonna pause to
acknowledge our veterans in the crowd, or this this specific
person is returning from this this conflict zone, and it's
seems is very you know, sincere, and it seems very patriotic.
(06:04):
Those groups are being paid to do this. This is
a paid ad, that's what's happening. Did you guys know
that because I was not aware of For a long time,
I had no idea. I didn't understan I didn't even
realize that there was a connection between, you know, the
military and sports. It makes perfect sense, but it just
never occurred to me. But yeah, it's badcasting for me,
(06:25):
at least because it's been a long time since I've
seen any professional sporting match. I haven't seen a I
haven't seen a Super Bowl, and I don't even know
how many years I think. I I watch it usually
a little bit before and after the halftime show because
the halftime shows are kind of fun. But yeah, same.
I watched the one that Atlanta was so brutally slaughtered
(06:48):
and a handful of years ago, and they they did
so well in the first half, but then they just
got destroyed. But I did watch that entire game and
in a very busy bar with a lot of fans
that were sorely disappointed. I dig the energy, but man, yeah,
the Falcons. Still too soon for me to talk about it, right, um? Yeah,
So whether or not you are a fan of sports,
(07:10):
right um? And a lot of people, of course haven't
been able to see the games they wish they could
have seen due to the pandemic. Whether or not you're
a fan, though, what you realize when you ask yourself
how does the military interact with the world of sports,
is that very quickly the answer becomes um complicated. Senators
(07:33):
John McCain and Jeff Flake were able to shed some
light on this story back in when they introduced this concept.
And for some people this is perfectly fine. It doesn't
matter that it's a paid ad that's purporting to be
a sincere display of patriotism. But for other people, that
(07:56):
deceptiveness is almost offensive at times. And that's that's really
what the relationship between the military entertainment complex and professional
sports could best be termed as unfortunately paid patriotism. It's
not an anomalous pattern, right PEPSI will pay millions of
(08:16):
dollars to have an ad in the Super Bowl, So
the question is why should the rules be different for
Uncle Sam. There's an argument there that I think is
is similar to our argument about the the cons of
the military entertainment complex when it's applied to children, right
(08:37):
like you are. You're a kid who loves basketball right
and watching basketball games, and you dream of being the
next Lebron or the next Michael Jordan's. And like many
kids who try to go into a career in basketball, uh,
the the rate of attrition is so high that you
(08:58):
don't you don't, unfortunately, get to be that basketball superstar.
But you have grown up seeing the military featured as
one of the best jobs in the planet. Are you
therefore more likely as a consequence of that long term advertising?
Are you therefore more likely to join the military? I
think it's a valid question to ask. If you study this,
(09:20):
what you'll notice is for folks who were around before
two thousand and one, this relationship increased by in order
of magnitude after the events of September eleven and now
it's kind of weird not to see these sorts of
displays if you go to uh particular sports game, and
(09:44):
sports games of course in the US are already you know,
they're very patriotic. You seeing the national anthem, even even
though objectively, I'll say it, the national anthem is not
that great of a song. It's not that creat of
a song. No, it definitely isn't. It's got some mixed
messages in there, but I mean it's true like football,
I think, well baseball for in particular, those two really
(10:05):
do feel like these very nationalistic sports. You know, they
are these kind of they're associated with America and our culture. Um.
And you know, soccer is obviously making a big splash
here and now, but that's still I think largely thought
of as like more of a European or a sport
you know, from somewhere else. So this can be sticky, right,
because we're talking about very deep emotional ties that a
(10:29):
lot of people have. You know, what's your favorite game
in the world, it's you may have served in the
military or know someone who has. So it may be
surprising for a lot of us today to realize some
of the strongest objectors to this relationship are like banks
veterans themselves. There there's a great piece on w b
(10:51):
R about veterans speaking out against what they see as
the military the militarization of sports. And I'd like to
read a quote from a guy named Bill as Store.
He's a retired Air Force lieutenant colonel, and he has
written about this multiple times. Really bothers him. He's describing
how he saw these jets right that that flew over
(11:16):
in a in an aerial parade to like during a
during a stadium game. And here's what he said. He said,
I think at first, there's a sort of thrilling feeling.
I'm like all the other fans, A big plane goes overhead. Wow,
that's kind of all inspiring. But at the same time,
to me, he says, it's not something that I see
(11:37):
should be flying over a sports stadium before a baseball
game or a football game. You know, these are weapons
of death. They may be required, but they certainly shouldn't
be celebrated and applauded. What do you guys think about that? Yeah,
it's like the idea of like maybe I don't think
people make this connection often enough perhaps, but it's the
idea of like using tanks and a parade. You know,
(12:00):
it's a show of military might. It's a flex it's
like look at us and fear us, kind of even
in a weird way to your own people. I don't know,
there's a there's so much psychology going on there because
it isn't just a flex outwardly, it's a flex inwardly, right,
It's to make the viewer feel as though there's power
(12:24):
because it is about the power of the individual somehow,
Like if that's that's the rhetoric you know of the
army or something, and then you're talking about adding tanks
to the situation, these weapons of destruction and death. Um,
you're showing like what power and individual can wield and
then what those individuals together can do. That's a really
(12:44):
good point matter. There's a lot of symbolism in there
where it is a show of force both internally and externally,
I think. But but you're combining it with especially if
you're doing American football, you know, basketball, uh, trying to
think even hockey, any any of these sports that are
are popular in the US. You're even sometimes baseball. You're
(13:06):
talking about physics, like physical feats of strength that are
one of the main things that lead a team to victory.
And an incredibly militarized formation for example, in like football,
where it's all about like the front lines and advancing.
It really is like the closest thing to playing war
that you could imagine, kind of like on that grid. Yeah,
I wrote. I wrote a paper about that a number
(13:28):
of years ago, which was follow up to the thing
a Road, asking whether war is and economic necessity? It's
to what degree do sports replace the practice of war,
of tribalistic war in particular, think about this, so I
would just say, ben it. Certainly in this case, it's
using it's it's doing what you're saying, like replacing it,
(13:49):
but then also using it to strengthen the other one psychologically,
I think, I think, yeah, absolutely, And you know, I'm
gonna be honest, folks, there's some displays like this that
I absolutely love. Like when the Blue Angels took the
training exercise the lady had scheduled to fly over Atlanta, Georgia. Yeah,
(14:10):
I went to the local park. I wanted to see
what the business was, you know what I mean, in
a very real way. I own part of those I
sure as sure as hell paid for him, you know,
just just dusting us with those chem trails. You know.
Never mind I'm joking, but yeah, No, it's it's a
beautiful thing to behold, for sure, until you dig down
into it. And I don't think I think we've seen
(14:32):
it so often that we're almost numb to the point
that Matt's making about how it is this kind of
show for us, we see it as kind of, oh,
it's just a neat trick. It's like look at him
new the loop de loop or like, uh whatever. It
doesn't really feel like that. Um, that kind of iron
fisted flex that we're talking about normalized just like pharmaceutical commercials. Uh.
(14:53):
And of course Lake and McCain are two more conservative senators,
so they're big objection to pay patriot is um was
the use of tax dollars, and they felt like these
contracts were somewhat deceptive two people. But you are right, Banks,
it is not just a big business, but it's a
growing business. And for anyone who would like to learn
(15:15):
more about this, you can read the report by McCain
and Flake called Tackling Paid Patriotism. It's free to read online.
And I'm very interested to hear in to hear everybody's
remarks regarding the power of symbolism at play here, which
is very real and profound, and what if any effect
(15:39):
this may have. Is this like, is this a domestic
hearts and minds operation? I would argue yes. But thank
you to Banks, thank you to everybody who wrote into
us on this topic. We want to hear your stories
about the military and sports uh and will tell you
how to reach us again at the end of today's show.
But now pause for a word from our sponsor who
(16:02):
maybe the Atlanta Falcons. We don't know, and we'll be
back with more listener mail. And we're back, and now
we are turning away from sports and the Blue Angels
to an email written by I think it's Tim. It's
(16:23):
t y M. I'm gonna say tim. Cool spelling of Tim.
I like it. If it was time would probably be
t I Amy. I don't know, that'd be weird. I'd
love to meet a person named time spelled like the
word time, the concept of time. It's vagabond TI vagabond.
I love that word. But it could be vagabond time.
(16:45):
It could be vagabond. That's kind of fun. Is that
like Eastern Never mind, I'm on vagabond time, time, thinking
like vagabond time. If your clock is said to that,
does that mean doesn't work in a house anyway? Whatever? Moving?
Oh nice, No, they're not all going to be worth it.
(17:05):
We're working live, so all right, Yes, So what's going
on is vagumon Tim sent us an email and it
goes like this. It's extended and there's a lot of
information in here. There are a couple of links that
we may reference as we're going through this, but for
the most part, I'm just I want to read from
this message because it is fantastic, So thank you. Oh
(17:28):
and before we get into the email, just a quick
disclaimer here. Ben said there was gonna be something in
this episode that may not be suitable for everyone. Well,
this is probably that section. This is the contents of
this email are dealing with quite a bit of death.
So that's what we'll be talking about for the next
few minutes. If you don't want to do that, maybe
(17:48):
fast forward about fifteen minutes from now, maybe twenty will
hopefully be fifteen. Are you ready? Here we go, Tim
says hi Ben mattin Noel and the Gang. This is
Vagabond Tim and Vancouver, Canada. I wanted to fill you
in on a few things that I've observed over the
past few years and tied together some threads that you've
touched on. I'm from Eastern Canada and been in British
(18:10):
Columbia for the past three years. I can't help but
notice my dog's barking? What those are your dogs? Matt.
I can't help but notice there's something strange in the air. Here.
For such a prosperous and beautiful place, there's an unusual
amount of drugs, gangs, dogs, addictions, random violence, mental health issues,
and generally crazy people. I like to call it the
(18:31):
Florida of Canada. I put dogs in there, he didn't.
There's many things I would like to discuss with you,
but for today, I want to highlight a series of
unexplained occurrences. Six men have disappeared in British Columbia's southern
interior between twenty seventeen and twenty nineteen, so slist some
of these off. In October seventeen, there was a man
(18:52):
named Luke Neville. His burned out van was discovered on
a forest service road. A cadaver dogs search of the
area turned up thing, and police say they consider this
disappearance suspicious, as you do when there's a burned out vehicle.
Then February we've got Ryan Stuka. I hope I'm doing
that right. Um. He was twenty years old and disappeared
(19:13):
after leaving a house party at the sun Peaks Ski resort. Um,
which is near Camloops. The illustrious Royal Canadian Mounted Police
and other volunteers searched for him, did a massive search
party um through the village and all of the surrounding
trails and forests, but they didn't find anything um as
(19:33):
to his whereabouts. Fast forward a little less than a
year January nineteen, Ben Tyger, a working cowboy, vanishes from
the Merit area after riding into the hills to look
for cattle. His abandoned horse was found fully saddled on
a forest service road northwest of the city. Two days later.
An extensive search by volunteers and police on foot, corseback,
(19:56):
in helicopters and on snowmobiles found no trace. The pattern continues,
my goodness, okay. Then in July of nineteen not you know,
this is a little you know. Seven months six seven
months afterwards, man named Ryan who was thirty eight, Ryan
P and a man named Ben Skurr who was thirty seven.
(20:18):
They had a jeep Cherokee, which again was found abandoned,
this time not necessarily burned out, but it was in
a wooded area between a couple of places, the Kamloop's
Place and Merit, a month later, their bodies were found
in a rural area north of Spence's Bridge, which is
eighty kilometers away from where their vehicle was Again, the
(20:40):
Royal Canadian Mounted Police said there was quote criminal behavior
associated with the case, but there was really no other
details that were there to be shared and there was
no cause of death that's been made public at least.
Then we've got November twenty six year old by the
name of Marshall uh iwasa UM. His GMC pickup truck
(21:01):
was found torched as well by hikers on a one
of these very remote forest service roads, and that's near Darcy,
British Columbia. UM he was last seen visiting a storage
locker in left Bridge, which is his hometown, just a
week earlier. And the investigation apparently continues uh in Left
(21:22):
Bridge by the Left Bridge Police, but they say that
they have not found any evidence thus far of foul play.
So Tim goes on to say five incidents, six individuals,
two bodies, two burned out vehicles for maybe six vanished
with no trace, all unsolved and police are denying any
links between any of these instances of disappearances and deaths.
(21:45):
Uh I don't know it seems a little weird. Tim says,
Apparently the the law enforcement there is keeping a tight
lid on a lot of the details, probably because they're
active investigations associated with each one of these instances. Uh.
Tim says he would love to see a follow up
on this and get some broader attention to it. And
he does know that there's been some reporting by the
(22:06):
CBC on this, and he's he's correct. There's a story
from CBC called six men missing in the same region
of British Columbia's southern Interior, but no links in cases,
police say. And you can read that right now if
you go, if you want to go into the full
details at this moment, you can see at least on
(22:26):
that article that there are there's all kinds of postage
being being put out for the missing people. There are
you know, large like roads signs essentially that are raising
awareness of some of the missing persons there. There's certainly
interested by the families and probably many people who live
(22:46):
in that immediate area. Yeah, you know, I paid great
attention to this letter as well, which we we got
just before we came into record earlier today. And vagabond ten.
One thing that I thought was very well written. Here
is that you're you're acknowledging, you're acknowledging the facts. And
(23:07):
you go on later to say that you caught a
really strange vibe in this area when you were living
around places, and Tim told us that you had been
moved to rights when you were just walking earlier outside
a normal every day John's, and then you saw yet
another missing person's poster. Skeptics are going to say that, hey,
(23:30):
you guys are maybe you and the reporters are unintentionally
cherry picking right going to These specific cases remain unexplained officially,
but we we just did the cursory look at the
population of British Columbia's interior. It's not a huge population
(23:54):
like you would see in a metropolis. It's around nine
hundred sixty one thousand, one hundred and fifty five people.
So for this many disappearances to occur, they're all in
the same rough geographical region. Um for them to happen
in relatively quick succession like this, with the population this small,
(24:15):
that is anomalous and it bears scrutiny, I would argue, yeah,
I think so too. The missing person poster that vagabond
Tim encountered was Trina Hunt, and you can read stories
about her that are being published as recently as March
seventeenth of this year. UM where you can read on
Tri City News a couple other places specifically about what
(24:38):
happened or what seems to have happened, because there's not
much known about what happened to Trina. But she was
last seen on January eight in Heritage Mountain, that's where
she lives. UM, I don't know. It's it's a disturbing case.
Anytime someone goes missing, it's disturbing in the case of
this area that you've you know, pointed out, like you said,
been these cases that don't seem to be connected, but
(25:00):
there are similarities. Um. It's it's weird and it's troubling,
and I think it's definitely worth our time. Later, and
we didn't even mention. Vague Tim sent us all kinds
of information, including stuff on the Highway of Tears, including
a whole other story about these two teenagers, this crazy
story about two teenagers that went on a homicide spree
(25:24):
while driving across Canada. Intense stuff. And I think maybe
Vague Tim, what you were doing is maybe connecting those
teens or maybe something similar to the other disappearances and homicides.
I'm not sure. It seems like maybe that's where we're
going with this, but Um, you're definitely right that there's
(25:46):
weird stuff going on, and we we very very much
appreciate you reaching out. Yeah, agreed, Thanks to Vagabond Tim,
and thanks to all the many listeners are northern neighbors
who have written to us about this. It is surprising
that this is not making more news in the US,
you know what I mean. M I'm gonna end with
what Tim said. He says, an old criminology professor once
(26:10):
told me that crime increases as you go west and
north in Canada. Now I'm starting to see it and
to put the pieces together, I've lived all over this country,
including east and west coast Ontario and the northern territories.
If you need any info, and he signed it Vagabond
Tim war time. It's time and we'll take some. Tim
(26:34):
to pause for a word from our sponsors, will be
back with one more story from you, and we're back. Um.
And this Um story came to us through a response
to the episode we did with kesha Um talking about
(26:58):
psychedelics and you sing them to, you know, cure what
ails you and psychologically really and how that's really kind
of coming around again as a viable form of treatment
for things like PTSD and addiction and um depression. And
we talked a lot about that, and there were a
lot of things that we covered, and there were a
(27:18):
lot of things that we didn't cover, And and listener
the Brockness Monster left us a voicemail pointing out one
of those stories that we missed. That is an absolute gem. Hello,
this is a Broacknest Monster from Data ohile and listening
to your podcast now about psychedelics, and we've kind of
done a few shows about this. I gotta tell you,
(27:40):
I'm I'm a little surprised that you guys haven't looked
at carry Grant's LSD treatments from like the fifties and
early sixties. I think he was treated for I don't
think it was alcoholism. I think he had like a
really messed op relationship with his father. He tripped like
five thousand times um all with like a a I
(28:03):
don't know a psychiatrist or what, but apparently it really
helped him, uh get the grips with the relationship with
his father and helped him be a healthier, health happier
human being than us to do a lot of treatments,
UH treat alcoholism with lsty that that it's very effective
(28:27):
the war and draws everything. So anyway, UM, thinkure, thank
you to the Brockness Monster. It's a great nickname to
give yourself. UM, and I think we can call you
that without blowing up your spot. Um. Great story. It's
a great story, and it's one that I had no
idea about. And you think of Carrie Grant as this
classic old Hollywood actor and also kind of like he's
(28:50):
an amazing actor, but you kind of think him as
part of the old Guarden, not you know, the new
like more like easy writer Jack Nicholson's and you know,
Kurt Russles of the world and all that. I just
think of him as being very you know, he's more
of a martini and a cigarette guy than a joint
and a tab of acid guy. But it turns out,
you know, he was those things. And there was a
(29:12):
period um, like Brockness Monster said in the fifties, late
fifties and early sixties when the discovery of LSD, you
not to mention things like MK culture and all of that,
but it was kind of a legit thought of a
legitimate treatment. The mk Ultra stuff is terrible and terrifying.
You should listen to Operation Midnight Climax and many old
episodes of stuff that I I want you to know to
(29:33):
hear more about that. But there was sort of like
a silver lining to all of that horror and that
it was being used to treat people like Carry Grant.
Carry Grant was in fact an alcoholic and he had
a very depressing childhood. I didn't realize this. He's English.
Maybe that's really obvious to like old movie bus, but
I just I just didn't know that because you think
of him, he's got this this weird accent. It's like
(29:53):
almost like a mid Atlantic thing. But he apparently put
that on and kind of created this persona his real
name growing up. It's about as British as they come.
Sounds like a character of a Charles Dickens novel, Archibald Leech,
kind of a villain kind of name out of a
Charles Dickens novel. But he he was like recruited and
as a circus performer when he was a kid, and
his mom took off and he thought that she was dead,
(30:16):
but found out later in life that she wasn't and
that she had actually been committed to a sanitarium by
his horrible father and anyway, just very dark upbringing. But
then he, you know, moved to America and and kind
of rebranded himself as Carrie Grant and changed the way
talked UM and was a very famous actor, you know
before this period when he was taking LSD UM. But
(30:38):
between the years of nineteen sixty one, he under the
supervision of a psychiatrist, took LSD every week and it
wasn't quite five thousand times that he tripped UM, but
it was at the very least a hundred. And he
this was before there was this stigma on LSD as
being this kind of bellweather of like counterculture and stuff,
and you know that a lot and the sand between
(31:01):
like the beat Nicks and the hippies and kind of
like the old guard like I was saying I was
associated Carry Grant with. But the time he just would
not stop talking about it. He apparently, you know, um
found some kind of amazing enlightenment and had been very
instant and secure leading up to that and kind of
not knowing who he was felt like he had these
two identities, you know, Archie Archibald or Archie Leach and
(31:23):
Carry Grant. And he spoke about this openly. He even
like he also was very um kind of uh, what's
they're looking for? Reclusive before this to this period where
he wouldn't really do interviews and didn't appear in public much.
And then all of a sudden, during this period he
had this burst of like, I got to tell the world,
and he reached out to a Good Housekeeping magazine, which
(31:43):
was apparently the news breaking publication of choice at the time,
and told them all about how LSD changed his life
and you know, helped him kick the booze and all
of that and just kind of made him in general
a happier person. Um. And it's just fascinating well to
to to hear this from him, where he was so
outspoken about it. Um. He there's a film about it
(32:03):
called Becoming Carrie Grant directed by Mark Kaidel. I believe
is how you pronounced it. And he says in this
Guardian article he claimed he was saved by LSD. You
have to remember that Carry was a private man. He
rarely gave interviews and yet after taking acid he personally
contacted Good Housekeeping magazine and said, I want to tell
the world about this. It has changed my life. Everyone's
got to take it. So um, yeah, he became You know,
(32:27):
there are other famous people of the time that took it, uh,
directors like Sidney lum May has one that's referenced in
this Guardian article, and others that we know about now,
but they weren't out there, like you know, evangelizing for
the stuff like carry Grant was um. And then inevitably
that counterculture kind of demonization period kicked in LSD was
(32:49):
made illegal, and um, he kind of backed away from
the limelight in terms of, like, you know, his position
on it being this amazing wonder drug, but presumably he
still continued to take get at something. Um. But yeah,
I don't. I think this is a really cool, little
kind of forgotten part of old Hollywood history. And it
does tail left tails perfectly into this you know, new
(33:10):
conversation about let's get back to using this stuff to
treat people with these conditions. It really does. And there's
another quote that's right above the quote that you read
there now, I know the one that that I love
it very much. It's silly I don't know, we don't know.
He says, you gotta are you gonna make me do it? Well, yeah,
(33:33):
why don't you do it? It's it's I believe this
is in Carrie's words. No, it's a quote from one
it's because one of these article, one of these interviews
he gave. It is I know it's silly, but it's um,
it's just it's it's interesting. Well he say, just says
quote in one LSD dream, which seems like kind of
a you know, old old school way of referring to it.
(33:55):
I imagine myself as a giant penis. I wish I
could do character. I imagine myself as a giant penis
launching off from Earth like a spaceship. I'm not doing
it right. That's more of a I don't know what
that is. May let me know. Rate me on my
carry grant. But yeah, and it's it's crazy. At the time,
like in the UK, there was this place called Powick
Hospital that funded an LSD clinic um and that was
(34:20):
like a viable form of treatment in the UK in particular,
and the psychiatrist um in question that the treated grant
was Dr Mortimer Hartman UM and that was at the
Psychiatric Institute of Beverly Hills. And we know that when
Grant died in six he donated quite a bit of
money to Hartman. But he was not in any way
(34:42):
unique other than the fact that he was a world
famous actor and so maybe had a little more agency
of privilege to speak at length about these things. Um.
But I believe it was from that same article, which
I had also read, which fantastic work by Brooks. I
hope I'm pronouncing your name right. Mr Brooks said that
(35:04):
there were over forty thousand people who had received this
treatment between just a period of like fifteen years before
the mid sixties. And mid sixties is when people started saying, Hey,
this is hippie dippie stuff. Uh history does you know?
Rhyme more often than it repeats. So I predict that
(35:27):
we're going to see more increasingly open conversations about this
from people who feel like they have benefited from psychedelic treatment,
which has also gone a long way. But as I
said in the many other episodes when we examined this stuff,
the stigmatization of these substances in a very real way
(35:50):
crippled the progress of research. You know what, I mean,
it's time it. We could have been so much further ahead.
I think this is a great story, Brock, and thanks
for bringing it to our attention. I really do too,
and I want to see the documentary very much, Becoming
Carry Grants from Um, directed by Mark kaidell Um. And yeah,
(36:12):
I have not actually hadn't heard of it until I
read this article and that Guardian piece that we're talking about,
which is I think the best one on this that
we found is called Carry Grant How a hundred acid
trips in Tinseltown changed my life. It's really interesting. So
I never would have I never would have come upon
this and I never would have known unless you pointing
us to it. So thanks, yeah, so thanks so much, Brock,
(36:34):
and thanks so much Banks and everybody else who wrote
in about the military entertainment complex and sports. We're gonna
get some stories about that. One. That's right and Giant
thanks to Vagabond Tim Time, two great nicknames today. So hey,
if you want to be like all of these fantastic people,
(36:54):
you can write to us, you can call us, you
can find us on social. There's so many ways. Let's
start with social. You can reach us at Twitter and Facebook.
Where we are conspiracy stuff. On Instagram, we are conspiracy
Stuff Show. If you want to check out our Facebook
page where you can hang out with all the other
conspiracy realists who've already joined up, have conversations, post dank memes,
(37:19):
do whatever you wanna do. It's your space as long
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are here's where it gets crazy on the Facebook page.
If you don't want to do that stuff, you can
find us via your telephones phone function. But is that
like an app or something? That's right, Yeah, the oldest
function on the phone, right, it's still kicking. Yeah. We uh,
(37:41):
we would love to hear from you. Dial us up
one eight three three s T d W y t
K three minutes. Those minutes are yours. You'll hear a voicemail,
We'll hear a weird deep tone and then, uh, you know,
off to the races. Give yourself kick asked nickname, We
love them. Let us know if we can use your
(38:03):
name voice on air. Tell us what's on your mind,
whether it's reacting this stuff we discussed today, or even
more importantly, personally, my opinion proposing new topics that you
think your fellow listeners would enjoy. If your story is
more than three minutes, then please don't edit yourself. Please
don't censor yourself. That goes against the mission of this show. Instead,
(38:26):
right to us, tell us the whole thing, give us
the whole nine um like vagabond Tim did or vagabond
tie because we take the time to read every one.
So you might be saying, well, how the heck do
I get this letter to you? It's very simple, using
another piece of technology that is also like the phone,
kind of old. Now you can send us a good
(38:48):
old fashioned email where we are conspiracy at i heeart
radio dot com. M m hmmm, stuff they don't want
(39:11):
you to know. Is a production of I heart Radio.
For more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the i
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From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is
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production of I Heart Radio. Hello, welcome back to the show.
(00:25):
My name is Matt, my name is Noel. They called
me Ben. We're joined as always with our super producer
Alexis code named Doc Holiday Jackson. Most importantly, you are you.
You are here, and that makes this stuff they don't
want you to know. It's time yet again when we
hear from our favorite part of the show, you, specifically
(00:46):
you and your fellow listeners. We've got We've got quite
a ride here. We've been receiving UM some incredible correspondence
both at our phone number one eight three three s
T d W y T, some fantastic emails to conspiracy
at iHeart radio dot com and UM. We've had a
lot of people reaching out to us to follow up
(01:08):
on some specific episodes in some some really interesting ways,
including UM. Some stories about Canada that we do want
to warn you in advance may not be suitable for
all our audience members, including a great story about Carrie
Grant and found somewhat inspiring and a story from Banks
(01:32):
Banks you called us in response to the military entertainment complex,
and I think that was for our crew recording that
that episode was pretty illuminating because I think we all
kind of knew what was going on, but I don't
were you guys aware of the extent of it before
we dove into it, not to the detail right, Like
(01:54):
you said, the wider picture, I think is assumed a lot,
but you isn't backed up with facts and in the
minutia very often. And we got a lot of people
who route in regarding specifically our episode on the military
entertainment complex because it's it's just as active as the
(02:15):
military industrial complex, but it's not acknowledged near as openly.
And the you know, the weirdest thing that I thought
would be a good a good level center here is
I looked at the budget of the US military, the
official figure, which is probably smaller than the actual money spent.
(02:39):
It's over nine hundred and eighty billion dollars, which means
that if we if the military was a country, it's
budget would be higher that it would have the let
me see, let me think it would have the seventeen
highest GDP in the world. Just above to Key and
(03:00):
just a little bit under Indonesia, so it's it's very
much a country of its own and it has the
powers the countries have. So Banks, you opened a door
for us when you called in and told us this. Hey, guys,
my name is Banks. I am ex military, and I
(03:21):
was telling about the episode on the Military Entertainment Complex.
While I enjoyed the episode, you guys missed out on
one critical aspect of it, and that is the military
integration with the UH professional sports and how it trickled
(03:43):
down to college and high school and so forth. I
thought that was a good opportunity to um explain how
the military guy involved with sports in the first place.
Thank you now jealous to you guys, Banks, thank you
so much for calling in. Uh several people had raised
the same point, and UH, you know, originally, when we
(04:07):
were diving into the story of the military Entertainment Complex,
we knew that this kind of felt like a multipart
episode and we stayed away from the world of sports.
But you are absolutely right. This does deserve an explanation
because it's like, you know, how if you travel anywhere
(04:30):
else in the world outside of the US, you'll notice
that there aren't pharmaceutical commercials on television. That's because they're
illegal and much of the rest of the world. And
it's weird that we consider it normal. It's also kind
of weird that we consider it normal to have the
military involved so heavily in the world of professional sports. Uh.
(04:55):
The Pentagon has between two thousand, twelve and two thousand
fift spent tens of millions of dollars fifty three million
dollars just just in that short span of years to
pay these different uh, these different teams, and these these
different owners and these different associations to present the military
(05:20):
in a patriotic light that helps for domestic support and
of course helps for recruitment. I think one of the
biggest surprises for a lot of people is, you know,
if you've ever had a soccer game, or you know
football to the rest of the world, or you know,
a baseball game, whatever, it's not surprising to see someone
be honored for their military service. Right like, there will
(05:43):
be a pause, maybe it's like a the beginning of
the game or something. They say, we're gonna pause to
acknowledge our veterans in the crowd, or this this specific
person is returning from this this conflict zone, and it's
seems is very you know, sincere, and it seems very patriotic.
(06:04):
Those groups are being paid to do this. This is
a paid ad, that's what's happening. Did you guys know
that because I was not aware of For a long time,
I had no idea. I didn't understan I didn't even
realize that there was a connection between, you know, the
military and sports. It makes perfect sense, but it just
never occurred to me. But yeah, it's badcasting for me,
(06:25):
at least because it's been a long time since I've
seen any professional sporting match. I haven't seen a I
haven't seen a Super Bowl, and I don't even know
how many years I think. I I watch it usually
a little bit before and after the halftime show because
the halftime shows are kind of fun. But yeah, same.
I watched the one that Atlanta was so brutally slaughtered
(06:48):
and a handful of years ago, and they they did
so well in the first half, but then they just
got destroyed. But I did watch that entire game and
in a very busy bar with a lot of fans
that were sorely disappointed. I dig the energy, but man, yeah,
the Falcons. Still too soon for me to talk about it, right, um? Yeah,
So whether or not you are a fan of sports,
(07:10):
right um? And a lot of people, of course haven't
been able to see the games they wish they could
have seen due to the pandemic. Whether or not you're
a fan, though, what you realize when you ask yourself
how does the military interact with the world of sports,
is that very quickly the answer becomes um complicated. Senators
(07:33):
John McCain and Jeff Flake were able to shed some
light on this story back in when they introduced this concept.
And for some people this is perfectly fine. It doesn't
matter that it's a paid ad that's purporting to be
a sincere display of patriotism. But for other people, that
(07:56):
deceptiveness is almost offensive at times. And that's that's really
what the relationship between the military entertainment complex and professional
sports could best be termed as unfortunately paid patriotism. It's
not an anomalous pattern, right PEPSI will pay millions of
(08:16):
dollars to have an ad in the Super Bowl, So
the question is why should the rules be different for
Uncle Sam. There's an argument there that I think is
is similar to our argument about the the cons of
the military entertainment complex when it's applied to children, right
(08:37):
like you are. You're a kid who loves basketball right
and watching basketball games, and you dream of being the
next Lebron or the next Michael Jordan's. And like many
kids who try to go into a career in basketball, uh,
the the rate of attrition is so high that you
(08:58):
don't you don't, unfortunately, get to be that basketball superstar.
But you have grown up seeing the military featured as
one of the best jobs in the planet. Are you
therefore more likely as a consequence of that long term advertising?
Are you therefore more likely to join the military? I
think it's a valid question to ask. If you study this,
(09:20):
what you'll notice is for folks who were around before
two thousand and one, this relationship increased by in order
of magnitude after the events of September eleven and now
it's kind of weird not to see these sorts of
displays if you go to uh particular sports game, and
(09:44):
sports games of course in the US are already you know,
they're very patriotic. You seeing the national anthem, even even
though objectively, I'll say it, the national anthem is not
that great of a song. It's not that creat of
a song. No, it definitely isn't. It's got some mixed
messages in there, but I mean it's true like football,
I think, well baseball for in particular, those two really
(10:05):
do feel like these very nationalistic sports. You know, they
are these kind of they're associated with America and our culture. Um.
And you know, soccer is obviously making a big splash
here and now, but that's still I think largely thought
of as like more of a European or a sport
you know, from somewhere else. So this can be sticky, right,
because we're talking about very deep emotional ties that a
(10:29):
lot of people have. You know, what's your favorite game
in the world, it's you may have served in the
military or know someone who has. So it may be
surprising for a lot of us today to realize some
of the strongest objectors to this relationship are like banks
veterans themselves. There there's a great piece on w b
(10:51):
R about veterans speaking out against what they see as
the military the militarization of sports. And I'd like to
read a quote from a guy named Bill as Store.
He's a retired Air Force lieutenant colonel, and he has
written about this multiple times. Really bothers him. He's describing
how he saw these jets right that that flew over
(11:16):
in a in an aerial parade to like during a
during a stadium game. And here's what he said. He said,
I think at first, there's a sort of thrilling feeling.
I'm like all the other fans, A big plane goes overhead. Wow,
that's kind of all inspiring. But at the same time,
to me, he says, it's not something that I see
(11:37):
should be flying over a sports stadium before a baseball
game or a football game. You know, these are weapons
of death. They may be required, but they certainly shouldn't
be celebrated and applauded. What do you guys think about that? Yeah,
it's like the idea of like maybe I don't think
people make this connection often enough perhaps, but it's the
idea of like using tanks and a parade. You know,
(12:00):
it's a show of military might. It's a flex it's
like look at us and fear us, kind of even
in a weird way to your own people. I don't know,
there's a there's so much psychology going on there because
it isn't just a flex outwardly, it's a flex inwardly, right,
It's to make the viewer feel as though there's power
(12:24):
because it is about the power of the individual somehow,
Like if that's that's the rhetoric you know of the
army or something, and then you're talking about adding tanks
to the situation, these weapons of destruction and death. Um,
you're showing like what power and individual can wield and
then what those individuals together can do. That's a really
(12:44):
good point matter. There's a lot of symbolism in there
where it is a show of force both internally and externally,
I think. But but you're combining it with especially if
you're doing American football, you know, basketball, uh, trying to
think even hockey, any any of these sports that are
are popular in the US. You're even sometimes baseball. You're
(13:06):
talking about physics, like physical feats of strength that are
one of the main things that lead a team to victory.
And an incredibly militarized formation for example, in like football,
where it's all about like the front lines and advancing.
It really is like the closest thing to playing war
that you could imagine, kind of like on that grid. Yeah,
I wrote. I wrote a paper about that a number
(13:28):
of years ago, which was follow up to the thing
a Road, asking whether war is and economic necessity? It's
to what degree do sports replace the practice of war,
of tribalistic war in particular, think about this, so I
would just say, ben it. Certainly in this case, it's
using it's it's doing what you're saying, like replacing it,
(13:49):
but then also using it to strengthen the other one psychologically,
I think, I think, yeah, absolutely, And you know, I'm
gonna be honest, folks, there's some displays like this that
I absolutely love. Like when the Blue Angels took the
training exercise the lady had scheduled to fly over Atlanta, Georgia. Yeah,
(14:10):
I went to the local park. I wanted to see
what the business was, you know what I mean, in
a very real way. I own part of those I
sure as sure as hell paid for him, you know,
just just dusting us with those chem trails. You know.
Never mind I'm joking, but yeah, No, it's it's a
beautiful thing to behold, for sure, until you dig down
into it. And I don't think I think we've seen
(14:32):
it so often that we're almost numb to the point
that Matt's making about how it is this kind of
show for us, we see it as kind of, oh,
it's just a neat trick. It's like look at him
new the loop de loop or like, uh whatever. It
doesn't really feel like that. Um, that kind of iron
fisted flex that we're talking about normalized just like pharmaceutical commercials. Uh.
(14:53):
And of course Lake and McCain are two more conservative senators,
so they're big objection to pay patriot is um was
the use of tax dollars, and they felt like these
contracts were somewhat deceptive two people. But you are right, Banks,
it is not just a big business, but it's a
growing business. And for anyone who would like to learn
(15:15):
more about this, you can read the report by McCain
and Flake called Tackling Paid Patriotism. It's free to read online.
And I'm very interested to hear in to hear everybody's
remarks regarding the power of symbolism at play here, which
is very real and profound, and what if any effect
(15:39):
this may have. Is this like, is this a domestic
hearts and minds operation? I would argue yes. But thank
you to Banks, thank you to everybody who wrote into
us on this topic. We want to hear your stories
about the military and sports uh and will tell you
how to reach us again at the end of today's show.
But now pause for a word from our sponsor who
(16:02):
maybe the Atlanta Falcons. We don't know, and we'll be
back with more listener mail. And we're back, and now
we are turning away from sports and the Blue Angels
to an email written by I think it's Tim. It's
(16:23):
t y M. I'm gonna say tim. Cool spelling of Tim.
I like it. If it was time would probably be
t I Amy. I don't know, that'd be weird. I'd
love to meet a person named time spelled like the
word time, the concept of time. It's vagabond TI vagabond.
I love that word. But it could be vagabond time.
(16:45):
It could be vagabond. That's kind of fun. Is that
like Eastern Never mind, I'm on vagabond time, time, thinking
like vagabond time. If your clock is said to that,
does that mean doesn't work in a house anyway? Whatever? Moving?
Oh nice, No, they're not all going to be worth it.
(17:05):
We're working live, so all right, Yes, So what's going
on is vagumon Tim sent us an email and it
goes like this. It's extended and there's a lot of
information in here. There are a couple of links that
we may reference as we're going through this, but for
the most part, I'm just I want to read from
this message because it is fantastic, So thank you. Oh
(17:28):
and before we get into the email, just a quick
disclaimer here. Ben said there was gonna be something in
this episode that may not be suitable for everyone. Well,
this is probably that section. This is the contents of
this email are dealing with quite a bit of death.
So that's what we'll be talking about for the next
few minutes. If you don't want to do that, maybe
(17:48):
fast forward about fifteen minutes from now, maybe twenty will
hopefully be fifteen. Are you ready? Here we go, Tim
says hi Ben mattin Noel and the Gang. This is
Vagabond Tim and Vancouver, Canada. I wanted to fill you
in on a few things that I've observed over the
past few years and tied together some threads that you've
touched on. I'm from Eastern Canada and been in British
(18:10):
Columbia for the past three years. I can't help but
notice my dog's barking? What those are your dogs? Matt.
I can't help but notice there's something strange in the air. Here.
For such a prosperous and beautiful place, there's an unusual
amount of drugs, gangs, dogs, addictions, random violence, mental health issues,
and generally crazy people. I like to call it the
(18:31):
Florida of Canada. I put dogs in there, he didn't.
There's many things I would like to discuss with you,
but for today, I want to highlight a series of
unexplained occurrences. Six men have disappeared in British Columbia's southern
interior between twenty seventeen and twenty nineteen, so slist some
of these off. In October seventeen, there was a man
(18:52):
named Luke Neville. His burned out van was discovered on
a forest service road. A cadaver dogs search of the
area turned up thing, and police say they consider this
disappearance suspicious, as you do when there's a burned out vehicle.
Then February we've got Ryan Stuka. I hope I'm doing
that right. Um. He was twenty years old and disappeared
(19:13):
after leaving a house party at the sun Peaks Ski resort. Um,
which is near Camloops. The illustrious Royal Canadian Mounted Police
and other volunteers searched for him, did a massive search
party um through the village and all of the surrounding
trails and forests, but they didn't find anything um as
(19:33):
to his whereabouts. Fast forward a little less than a
year January nineteen, Ben Tyger, a working cowboy, vanishes from
the Merit area after riding into the hills to look
for cattle. His abandoned horse was found fully saddled on
a forest service road northwest of the city. Two days later.
An extensive search by volunteers and police on foot, corseback,
(19:56):
in helicopters and on snowmobiles found no trace. The pattern continues,
my goodness, okay. Then in July of nineteen not you know,
this is a little you know. Seven months six seven
months afterwards, man named Ryan who was thirty eight, Ryan
P and a man named Ben Skurr who was thirty seven.
(20:18):
They had a jeep Cherokee, which again was found abandoned,
this time not necessarily burned out, but it was in
a wooded area between a couple of places, the Kamloop's
Place and Merit, a month later, their bodies were found
in a rural area north of Spence's Bridge, which is
eighty kilometers away from where their vehicle was Again, the
(20:40):
Royal Canadian Mounted Police said there was quote criminal behavior
associated with the case, but there was really no other
details that were there to be shared and there was
no cause of death that's been made public at least.
Then we've got November twenty six year old by the
name of Marshall uh iwasa UM. His GMC pickup truck
(21:01):
was found torched as well by hikers on a one
of these very remote forest service roads, and that's near Darcy,
British Columbia. UM he was last seen visiting a storage
locker in left Bridge, which is his hometown, just a
week earlier. And the investigation apparently continues uh in Left
(21:22):
Bridge by the Left Bridge Police, but they say that
they have not found any evidence thus far of foul play.
So Tim goes on to say five incidents, six individuals,
two bodies, two burned out vehicles for maybe six vanished
with no trace, all unsolved and police are denying any
links between any of these instances of disappearances and deaths.
(21:45):
Uh I don't know it seems a little weird. Tim says,
Apparently the the law enforcement there is keeping a tight
lid on a lot of the details, probably because they're
active investigations associated with each one of these instances. Uh.
Tim says he would love to see a follow up
on this and get some broader attention to it. And
he does know that there's been some reporting by the
(22:06):
CBC on this, and he's he's correct. There's a story
from CBC called six men missing in the same region
of British Columbia's southern Interior, but no links in cases,
police say. And you can read that right now if
you go, if you want to go into the full
details at this moment, you can see at least on
(22:26):
that article that there are there's all kinds of postage
being being put out for the missing people. There are
you know, large like roads signs essentially that are raising
awareness of some of the missing persons there. There's certainly
interested by the families and probably many people who live
(22:46):
in that immediate area. Yeah, you know, I paid great
attention to this letter as well, which we we got
just before we came into record earlier today. And vagabond ten.
One thing that I thought was very well written. Here
is that you're you're acknowledging, you're acknowledging the facts. And
(23:07):
you go on later to say that you caught a
really strange vibe in this area when you were living
around places, and Tim told us that you had been
moved to rights when you were just walking earlier outside
a normal every day John's, and then you saw yet
another missing person's poster. Skeptics are going to say that, hey,
(23:30):
you guys are maybe you and the reporters are unintentionally
cherry picking right going to These specific cases remain unexplained officially,
but we we just did the cursory look at the
population of British Columbia's interior. It's not a huge population
(23:54):
like you would see in a metropolis. It's around nine
hundred sixty one thousand, one hundred and fifty five people.
So for this many disappearances to occur, they're all in
the same rough geographical region. Um for them to happen
in relatively quick succession like this, with the population this small,
(24:15):
that is anomalous and it bears scrutiny, I would argue, yeah,
I think so too. The missing person poster that vagabond
Tim encountered was Trina Hunt, and you can read stories
about her that are being published as recently as March
seventeenth of this year. UM where you can read on
Tri City News a couple other places specifically about what
(24:38):
happened or what seems to have happened, because there's not
much known about what happened to Trina. But she was
last seen on January eight in Heritage Mountain, that's where
she lives. UM, I don't know. It's it's a disturbing case.
Anytime someone goes missing, it's disturbing in the case of
this area that you've you know, pointed out, like you said,
been these cases that don't seem to be connected, but
(25:00):
there are similarities. Um. It's it's weird and it's troubling,
and I think it's definitely worth our time. Later, and
we didn't even mention. Vague Tim sent us all kinds
of information, including stuff on the Highway of Tears, including
a whole other story about these two teenagers, this crazy
story about two teenagers that went on a homicide spree
(25:24):
while driving across Canada. Intense stuff. And I think maybe
Vague Tim, what you were doing is maybe connecting those
teens or maybe something similar to the other disappearances and homicides.
I'm not sure. It seems like maybe that's where we're
going with this, but Um, you're definitely right that there's
(25:46):
weird stuff going on, and we we very very much
appreciate you reaching out. Yeah, agreed, Thanks to Vagabond Tim,
and thanks to all the many listeners are northern neighbors
who have written to us about this. It is surprising
that this is not making more news in the US,
you know what I mean. M I'm gonna end with
what Tim said. He says, an old criminology professor once
(26:10):
told me that crime increases as you go west and
north in Canada. Now I'm starting to see it and
to put the pieces together, I've lived all over this country,
including east and west coast Ontario and the northern territories.
If you need any info, and he signed it Vagabond
Tim war time. It's time and we'll take some. Tim
(26:34):
to pause for a word from our sponsors, will be
back with one more story from you, and we're back. Um.
And this Um story came to us through a response
to the episode we did with kesha Um talking about
(26:58):
psychedelics and you sing them to, you know, cure what
ails you and psychologically really and how that's really kind
of coming around again as a viable form of treatment
for things like PTSD and addiction and um depression. And
we talked a lot about that, and there were a
lot of things that we covered, and there were a
(27:18):
lot of things that we didn't cover, And and listener
the Brockness Monster left us a voicemail pointing out one
of those stories that we missed. That is an absolute gem. Hello,
this is a Broacknest Monster from Data ohile and listening
to your podcast now about psychedelics, and we've kind of
done a few shows about this. I gotta tell you,
(27:40):
I'm I'm a little surprised that you guys haven't looked
at carry Grant's LSD treatments from like the fifties and
early sixties. I think he was treated for I don't
think it was alcoholism. I think he had like a
really messed op relationship with his father. He tripped like
five thousand times um all with like a a I
(28:03):
don't know a psychiatrist or what, but apparently it really
helped him, uh get the grips with the relationship with
his father and helped him be a healthier, health happier
human being than us to do a lot of treatments,
UH treat alcoholism with lsty that that it's very effective
(28:27):
the war and draws everything. So anyway, UM, thinkure, thank
you to the Brockness Monster. It's a great nickname to
give yourself. UM, and I think we can call you
that without blowing up your spot. Um. Great story. It's
a great story, and it's one that I had no
idea about. And you think of Carrie Grant as this
classic old Hollywood actor and also kind of like he's
(28:50):
an amazing actor, but you kind of think him as
part of the old Guarden, not you know, the new
like more like easy writer Jack Nicholson's and you know,
Kurt Russles of the world and all that. I just
think of him as being very you know, he's more
of a martini and a cigarette guy than a joint
and a tab of acid guy. But it turns out,
you know, he was those things. And there was a
(29:12):
period um, like Brockness Monster said in the fifties, late
fifties and early sixties when the discovery of LSD, you
not to mention things like MK culture and all of that,
but it was kind of a legit thought of a
legitimate treatment. The mk Ultra stuff is terrible and terrifying.
You should listen to Operation Midnight Climax and many old
episodes of stuff that I I want you to know to
(29:33):
hear more about that. But there was sort of like
a silver lining to all of that horror and that
it was being used to treat people like Carry Grant.
Carry Grant was in fact an alcoholic and he had
a very depressing childhood. I didn't realize this. He's English.
Maybe that's really obvious to like old movie bus, but
I just I just didn't know that because you think
of him, he's got this this weird accent. It's like
(29:53):
almost like a mid Atlantic thing. But he apparently put
that on and kind of created this persona his real
name growing up. It's about as British as they come.
Sounds like a character of a Charles Dickens novel, Archibald Leech,
kind of a villain kind of name out of a
Charles Dickens novel. But he he was like recruited and
as a circus performer when he was a kid, and
his mom took off and he thought that she was dead,
(30:16):
but found out later in life that she wasn't and
that she had actually been committed to a sanitarium by
his horrible father and anyway, just very dark upbringing. But
then he, you know, moved to America and and kind
of rebranded himself as Carrie Grant and changed the way
talked UM and was a very famous actor, you know
before this period when he was taking LSD UM. But
(30:38):
between the years of nineteen sixty one, he under the
supervision of a psychiatrist, took LSD every week and it
wasn't quite five thousand times that he tripped UM, but
it was at the very least a hundred. And he
this was before there was this stigma on LSD as
being this kind of bellweather of like counterculture and stuff,
and you know that a lot and the sand between
(31:01):
like the beat Nicks and the hippies and kind of
like the old guard like I was saying I was
associated Carry Grant with. But the time he just would
not stop talking about it. He apparently, you know, um
found some kind of amazing enlightenment and had been very
instant and secure leading up to that and kind of
not knowing who he was felt like he had these
two identities, you know, Archie Archibald or Archie Leach and
(31:23):
Carry Grant. And he spoke about this openly. He even
like he also was very um kind of uh, what's
they're looking for? Reclusive before this to this period where
he wouldn't really do interviews and didn't appear in public much.
And then all of a sudden, during this period he
had this burst of like, I got to tell the world,
and he reached out to a Good Housekeeping magazine, which
(31:43):
was apparently the news breaking publication of choice at the time,
and told them all about how LSD changed his life
and you know, helped him kick the booze and all
of that and just kind of made him in general
a happier person. Um. And it's just fascinating well to
to to hear this from him, where he was so
outspoken about it. Um. He there's a film about it
(32:03):
called Becoming Carrie Grant directed by Mark Kaidel. I believe
is how you pronounced it. And he says in this
Guardian article he claimed he was saved by LSD. You
have to remember that Carry was a private man. He
rarely gave interviews and yet after taking acid he personally
contacted Good Housekeeping magazine and said, I want to tell
the world about this. It has changed my life. Everyone's
got to take it. So um, yeah, he became You know,
(32:27):
there are other famous people of the time that took it, uh,
directors like Sidney lum May has one that's referenced in
this Guardian article, and others that we know about now,
but they weren't out there, like you know, evangelizing for
the stuff like carry Grant was um. And then inevitably
that counterculture kind of demonization period kicked in LSD was
(32:49):
made illegal, and um, he kind of backed away from
the limelight in terms of, like, you know, his position
on it being this amazing wonder drug, but presumably he
still continued to take get at something. Um. But yeah,
I don't. I think this is a really cool, little
kind of forgotten part of old Hollywood history. And it
does tail left tails perfectly into this you know, new
(33:10):
conversation about let's get back to using this stuff to
treat people with these conditions. It really does. And there's
another quote that's right above the quote that you read
there now, I know the one that that I love
it very much. It's silly I don't know, we don't know.
He says, you gotta are you gonna make me do it? Well, yeah,
(33:33):
why don't you do it? It's it's I believe this
is in Carrie's words. No, it's a quote from one
it's because one of these article, one of these interviews
he gave. It is I know it's silly, but it's um,
it's just it's it's interesting. Well he say, just says
quote in one LSD dream, which seems like kind of
a you know, old old school way of referring to it.
(33:55):
I imagine myself as a giant penis. I wish I
could do character. I imagine myself as a giant penis
launching off from Earth like a spaceship. I'm not doing
it right. That's more of a I don't know what
that is. May let me know. Rate me on my
carry grant. But yeah, and it's it's crazy. At the time,
like in the UK, there was this place called Powick
Hospital that funded an LSD clinic um and that was
(34:20):
like a viable form of treatment in the UK in particular,
and the psychiatrist um in question that the treated grant
was Dr Mortimer Hartman UM and that was at the
Psychiatric Institute of Beverly Hills. And we know that when
Grant died in six he donated quite a bit of
money to Hartman. But he was not in any way
(34:42):
unique other than the fact that he was a world
famous actor and so maybe had a little more agency
of privilege to speak at length about these things. Um.
But I believe it was from that same article, which
I had also read, which fantastic work by Brooks. I
hope I'm pronouncing your name right. Mr Brooks said that
(35:04):
there were over forty thousand people who had received this
treatment between just a period of like fifteen years before
the mid sixties. And mid sixties is when people started saying, Hey,
this is hippie dippie stuff. Uh history does you know?
Rhyme more often than it repeats. So I predict that
(35:27):
we're going to see more increasingly open conversations about this
from people who feel like they have benefited from psychedelic treatment,
which has also gone a long way. But as I
said in the many other episodes when we examined this stuff,
the stigmatization of these substances in a very real way
(35:50):
crippled the progress of research. You know what, I mean,
it's time it. We could have been so much further ahead.
I think this is a great story, Brock, and thanks
for bringing it to our attention. I really do too,
and I want to see the documentary very much, Becoming
Carry Grants from Um, directed by Mark kaidell Um. And yeah,
(36:12):
I have not actually hadn't heard of it until I
read this article and that Guardian piece that we're talking about,
which is I think the best one on this that
we found is called Carry Grant How a hundred acid
trips in Tinseltown changed my life. It's really interesting. So
I never would have I never would have come upon
this and I never would have known unless you pointing
us to it. So thanks, yeah, so thanks so much, Brock,
(36:34):
and thanks so much Banks and everybody else who wrote
in about the military entertainment complex and sports. We're gonna
get some stories about that. One. That's right and Giant
thanks to Vagabond Tim Time, two great nicknames today. So hey,
if you want to be like all of these fantastic people,
(36:54):
you can write to us, you can call us, you
can find us on social. There's so many ways. Let's
start with social. You can reach us at Twitter and Facebook.
Where we are conspiracy stuff. On Instagram, we are conspiracy
Stuff Show. If you want to check out our Facebook
page where you can hang out with all the other
conspiracy realists who've already joined up, have conversations, post dank memes,
(37:19):
do whatever you wanna do. It's your space as long
as the mods say it's okay. Check it out. We
are here's where it gets crazy on the Facebook page.
If you don't want to do that stuff, you can
find us via your telephones phone function. But is that
like an app or something? That's right, Yeah, the oldest
function on the phone, right, it's still kicking. Yeah. We uh,
(37:41):
we would love to hear from you. Dial us up
one eight three three s T d W y t
K three minutes. Those minutes are yours. You'll hear a voicemail,
We'll hear a weird deep tone and then, uh, you know,
off to the races. Give yourself kick asked nickname, We
love them. Let us know if we can use your
(38:03):
name voice on air. Tell us what's on your mind,
whether it's reacting this stuff we discussed today, or even
more importantly, personally, my opinion proposing new topics that you
think your fellow listeners would enjoy. If your story is
more than three minutes, then please don't edit yourself. Please
don't censor yourself. That goes against the mission of this show. Instead,
(38:26):
right to us, tell us the whole thing, give us
the whole nine um like vagabond Tim did or vagabond
tie because we take the time to read every one.
So you might be saying, well, how the heck do
I get this letter to you? It's very simple, using
another piece of technology that is also like the phone,
kind of old. Now you can send us a good
(38:48):
old fashioned email where we are conspiracy at i heeart
radio dot com. M m hmmm, stuff they don't want
(39:11):
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