A caller inspires the guys to look into explanations for a strange UFO sighting in south Georgia. Investigators use a photograph of a man holding cheese to capture and analyze fingerprints. A listener breaks down some of the reasons why sexual assault kits end up getting caught in the notorious, ongoing national backlog -- and the guys explore what would happen if that backlog was fixed. All this and more in this week's listener mail.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is
riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or
learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A
production of I Heart Radio. Welcome back to the show.
(00:25):
My name is Matt, my name is nol Nay call
me Ben. We're joined as always with our super producer,
all mission controlled deconds. Most importantly, you are you. You
are here, and that makes this stuff they don't want
you to know. As I adjust my camera on the zoom.
Uh so, long time listeners, you know what day this
(00:46):
stuff comes out. This is our weekly listener mail segment
where we share some of our favorite and our most
important pieces of correspondence from your fellow conspiracy realists. Quick
heads up, everybody listening, maybe with younger folks in the
crowd with you or in the car wherever you find yourself.
(01:08):
Uh there does need to be a disclaimer for today's
listener mail segment. We do have a segment that will
be covering um covering content of a sexual nature, and
we feel this is vital information. We also feel it
may not be appropriate for all our fellow listeners. Uh so,
(01:32):
do take that into consideration. But We're not starting there.
We're gonna We're gonna start with something a little less heavy,
but still I would argue scary in its own way.
Our first story, I believe it starts with cheese, doesn't
It sure does. Cheese and encryption gonna ry people feeling
(01:54):
too comfortable on the Internet. That's a thing. And before
we get into the story, this came to us by
way of clever another good alias UH in a story
full of aliases UH, and the subject says it all
drug dealer busted by cheese pick. Hello, A longtime listener
and enjoyer of your podcast, and I would like to
share a bit of strange news. I had seen on
(02:15):
the front website page of my local news site that
a man from the UK had been jailed due to
fingerprint analysis of a picture he took holding a block
of cheese. I will link the scene in an article. Uh.
They took the story from below my message, but I
thought this was wildly fascinating and wanted to share it
with you guys. I also thought it would be a
great if uh. Most likely Matt spoke about this story
(02:37):
and would bring up the craziness but also the crazy
tools that law enforcement have to be able to use
against people. This is a great and weird story with
possibly horrifying consequences for the average citizen due to the
nutso bonker's way, government and law enforcement can catch people.
I trust you guys will be able to do this
story justice. Best and warmest concerns Clever. Hey, thanks for
(02:59):
the shout out. By the way, Clever, Sorry it wasn't
me this time. Ha ha, But you're here. But but
you're here, Matt, You're here. Great name too, Clever. By
the way, seriously, I have this image of Clever, you know,
like looking around the kitchen and saying which piece of
cutlery will I go by? And as the templar said
to indeed you have chosen wisely. And also there's only one.
(03:23):
It's true, there is one. And it also is the
name of the movie inside of the television series The Sopranos,
which I will not stop talking about. Um that Christopher
makes along with some of his mob financiers. It's like
a horror movie about a mob boss who gets hacked
into small pieces and re animates and comes back to
life as the titular murderous Clever who comes back for
(03:47):
revenge against those that wronged him. UM, very very multifascined
name there. All right, well clever, take it away. You know,
for the longest time anyone let's just okay, no judgment here.
But anyone who's perhaps have found themselves procuring illegal substances
in some form of fashion probably has been told don't text,
(04:08):
you know, don't text things that are incriminating. Um, and
probably best just not to text stuff like that at
all with your plug. I believe it is the is
the term the kids use or make up a silly
code word. I think the statutes passed. I'll say that
that was one of my favorite things in the younger
days was uh. I would know people had these elaborate
(04:31):
systems for their text team, for their like uh any
any kind of slang you could imagine. It's just somebody
was a little bit high and they were like, hey man,
you got any more of that peanut butter or something
equally sure, Or you could go the kind of you know,
measurement route where it's like, yeah, I want to get
(04:52):
a mixed CD. Let me get a thirty minute mix
CD or a sixty minute mix CD or a hundred
and twenty minute mix CD. Right, uh, an you think
about this is elaborate. I honestly didn't know what this happened. Well,
you're a you're a good lad Matt, and we love
you dearly. But it's a thing. Um. But here's the thing.
These days, probably for the last you know, ten years maybe, um,
(05:16):
the emergence of these encrypted apps for communicating with said
plug have become a thing. I actually remember being on
a work trip in New York and just kind of
like flipping through the you know, the local kind of
city pages or whatever. Maybe what would be the equivalent
of our creative loafing here or stomp and Stammer or
(05:38):
something like that's sort of like an independent rag you
know that has like classifies in the back and actually
seeing pretty brazen advertisements for drug dealers in the back
um that require the use of an app called Telegram.
Telegram is sort of the popular one I think these
days still because it is encrypted and it's directly to
the source, and there's like message boards that you can
(06:00):
view where maybe a dealer has their menu or something
on there. But certain group of dealers have really taken
this to an extreme with an app called ink row
Chat E n c R O chat UM and and
it actually is even more elaborate than this, because it's
not an app you can get in the app store.
It's a very kind of exclusive UM app that actually
(06:23):
involves a specific I guess jailbroken phone that has like
a code you can enter into it to wipe all
local data UM and all records of these transactions. Unfortunately,
that doesn't work so well when police UM infiltrate said
app or said network, when police actually get one of
(06:44):
these phones themselves and are acting as either a user
or a dealer themselves. But the thing is, this is
not just a casual drug forum for you know, buying
and selling marijuana for example. This is very elaborate and
involves moving lots and lots of weight. This is more
of a traffickers type app UM. So some big fish
(07:07):
using this service UM. And even in in a press
release UM around the story that I'm about to talk about, UH,
there is discussion of folks using this to plan hits
even against rival dealers. So very very high level crime
going on in this app. UH. And obviously this is
(07:27):
a in in in England or in the United Kingdom
where this story is centered, where in a local man
from Liverpool. Um was recently arrested because he you know,
was posting on this app using an alias UM and
he you know alias meaning like like a screen name,
which I believe was something like Toffee Toffee King or
(07:50):
Toffee Force t o f f E Force. And if
the toffee and then name indicates that this guy was
maybe into you know, culinary pursuits, well that's that's that's
totally true, um, because he posted in addition to posting
pictures of drugs and all of that, um, he posted
a picture of a substance that, to your brain may
(08:10):
as well be a drug. They say that cheese is
to one's brain almost as addictive as like say, crack
or cocaine. Um. Cheese sets off some of these uh
pleasure centers responses in a very similar way to hard drugs. Uh.
And it can become addictive in that way obviously a
little more benign long term. You might gain a little
(08:31):
weight which probably not gonna overdose, or you know, you know,
have some sort of debilitating addiction that you just might
just be you know, cheese habitual cheese eater. But um, yeah,
this guy Carl Stewart H's thirty nine years old, um.
In the In the press release, he's listed as being
of Gym Street, Liverpool. He was just recently sentenced to
thirteen years and six months in prison by the Liverpool
(08:55):
Crown Court. Um. And that is because and in the
charge for trafficking, conspiracy to traffic cocaine, conspiracy to supply heroin,
conspiracy to supply M D M A and conspiracy to
supply ketamine and transferring criminal property. And it all stemmed
from a picture where he was holding a piece of
stilton blue cheese, specifically mature blue stilton crafted by Long
(09:21):
Claws in in Leicestershire, uh, delicately rich and creamy stilton,
uh from a company called M N S. I'm literally
reading from the label on this picture where you can
see his hands. In addition to his hands, you can
see the pads of his fingers. And as Cleaver said,
this is apparently all it takes for law enforcements to
(09:42):
do a fingerprint analysis, which makes sense considering that phone
picks these days are of pretty seriously high resolution. You know,
they've just gotten you know, every time a new generation
comes out, they just add more megapixels, and even you
know a few generations old phone would likely be enough
to produce a clear enough image that could then be
(10:03):
zoomed in and you can actually see those rings on
the fingers. And again in this image you can see one, two,
three fingers fully unobstructed, um, and they're quite close, close
enough where if I zoomed in, I could myself with
my naked eye see those rings. So, um, fellas, what
what do you think about this technology? Is this something
(10:23):
you were aware of? It makes sense to me. It
doesn't feel like a stretch, but it also feels a
little creepy, right, like for you know, your average Joe
that isn't posting on an illegal encrypted drugs app but
like say, uh, you know, finding out somebody's identity from
Facebook posts or um, using this kind of analysis to
(10:44):
find out information that maybe people would rather keep private. Yeah, look, guys,
I'm over here taking pictures of my fingers with my
what is this an iPhone ten or eleven like whatever one?
It only has one camera on it. But I'm having
trouble getting high enough resolution photo of my fingerprint. Maybe
(11:07):
if I took it into Photoshop, I could like up
the contrast or what do they call it? The structure,
you know, where you can it makes the lines a
little more crisp, or the sharpen you can sharpen the image. Perhaps, Yeah,
I can see some of it, at least the one
that's posted on here on the CNN article doesn't look
(11:27):
like you can clearly see the fingerprints. Maybe I'm being generous,
and that's certainly possible, Matt, But I also maybe doubt it.
They don't look like their soft focus. But you're right,
it was probably being a little bit generous. Um, I'm
zooming in a little bit myself and I can see
some of them. But does this feel like new technology
to you guys? Or does this feel like something that
maybe has been in the works for a long time
(11:48):
or in time. It's not new. It isn't new, Um,
it's been around. Like reporting of this goes back a
few years, which I think should indicate reasonably. This is
just me guessing reasonably that it had been around in
(12:08):
some form before that. You can find stories from police
doing the same thing with what'sapp often with some sort
of proprietary matching technology. You can also see this sort
of the fancy name is biometric identity verification, dating back
even further for a number of years. I think a
(12:31):
lot of it is that there are tech aspects that
you guys are talking about. But to be clear, this
is not as simple as UH someone eyeballying it by
no means, And there are there are things that conclusively
determine whose fingerprints belong to whom in ways that are
not visible to the naked eye, regardless of the resolution.
(12:54):
Well you have fingerprints, yes, fingerprints, sure, but this is
not a fingerprint. This is this is a picture of
a hand right represented by pixels. And like I I
did for me, this is brand new. I've never heard
of a picture of a physical hand that was taken
by a consumer grade phone used to identify for me,
(13:16):
that was brand new. It was to me too. But
after digging a little bit into Ben's point, there is
an article from UH specifically referencing police using a photo
taken from WhatsApp, and in this article they are describing
it in the release as quote pioneering fingerprint techniques. Here's
a here's a little sense we're here's a little snippet
from the South Wales Police UM saying more or less
(13:39):
how they do it, UH speaking about the pioneering techniques
used in this case. Dave Thomas forensic Operations manager at
the Scientific Support Unit added specialist staff within the j
s i U fully utilized their expert image enhancing skills,
which enabled them to provide something that the unit's fingerprint
identification experts could work. Despite being provided with only a
very small section of the fingerprint. And again, this new
(14:01):
one that we're talking about today's story is several full,
fully unobstructive fingers small section of the fingerprint which was
visible in the photograph, the team were able to successfully
identify the individual. So here's the deal. I need to
see this tech at work because they do say they
enhance it, but I don't. I don't believe it, everybody.
(14:25):
I I think they found them out in some other
way and they're using this as like this is like
the old lie detector test where I'm just joking. No, no,
I I thought of that too. I think they're raising
a really good consideration. Met Like when I was looking
through articles like this from CSO online and other sources, Uh,
(14:46):
one thing that I loved was the vague nature of
the you know, when you get to the nuts and
bolts and technology say it's pioneering, right, which means in
my mind that it is publicly admitted to be pioneering
now and and they also used phrases that I feel
like they come from hastily written cops shows enhance enhanced,
(15:09):
can we enhance? You know? And that's right up there
with the nineties hacker movies where people quote re reroute
the encryptions, right, don't worry rerouted the encryptions. Now we're
in and you've got the right noises call throw me
some hacker noises. My favorite thing from the movie Hackers
(15:30):
or and also just from like nineties internet movies is
the visual representation of the Internet where they're like zooming
through like and they're representing the Internet using like buildings
and portals and stuff. Um. But there's even a newer
article that came out just a couple of hours ago
from bank info security dot com um that talks about
(15:50):
more busts that have been done with this infiltration of
this app. And by the way, just a little more
detail that wasn't in the cheese article. Um, this incro
chat app. Again, it came preloaded on a smartphone that's
sold for a thousand dollars and then you'd pay a
six month service plan that was sevent hundred additional dollars
on top of getting the phone. Um. And because they've
(16:13):
infiltrated this, they are absolutely knocking them down, just setting
them up and knocking them down. Um. On May six,
Dutch police rated several addresses in the Hague and Rotterdam
um where they found a quote industrial scale cocaine laboratory
that was hidden in a building also housing a garage
(16:34):
used by criminals to customize vehicles with secret compartments to
transport drugs across Europe. And that is a statement from
Europole UM. So I would think these stories coming out
would certainly cause people to not use this app anymore.
You think they'd made be a little more discreet about it,
wouldn't you like in terms of like outing the app.
You think they would like do the bus, but not
(16:56):
say how they did it? Why, Ben, because they've already
done the bus, they've gotten there. Don't squeeze every last
uh drop of juice out of this crime tangerine. They're
they're going and now they're just sort of let m
let us tell you how this was tasty. It So
maybe plug will william Carlos Williams. But there's another interesting
(17:17):
statistic I found on this as of of people back
then had mobile phones and use them to stab photos
that cops could quote download And there's that word again, enhance.
So this is only accelerated, right, And it's weird because
you know, you think about the r the explosive rise
(17:39):
and prevalence of facial recognition technology, it logically follows that,
at least in my head, it logically follows that other
sorts of physical recognition could be used, you know, like
like your hands. We've ruined the lives of would be
hand models were also criminals and share separate accounts on Instagram.
(17:59):
It's too late, ut popped. Yeah, I think this. I
think the story is like two fold interesting and obviously
because of the the identification technology, but also the level
to which these criminals UM went with this incro chats
to set up. Like they're all Android phones. They're modified
to not contain a SIM card. We always see you
know in uh spy movies or whatever. Like when ever
(18:22):
someone thinks they're being tracked, they take the SIM card
out and break it, you know, and third off a
bridge or whatever. These are sim cardless. Uh. They have
no camera, no microphone, and no GPS capabilities. UM or
a USB port. But despite all of all of these safeguards. Also,
by the way, I also have a dual operating system
with the encrypted set up being hidden so it can't
(18:43):
be even detected. And also this automatic wipe feature that
I was talking about, the deletion UM using a specialized code.
But even still, good old police work prevails, right because
they didn't use technology to infiltrate this system, to my knowledge,
they just used good old fashioned like posing as a criminal. Imagine,
(19:03):
it seems like they did do a little bit of
tech sleuthing here um because according to a release uh
here um or actually some reporting from vice UM, they
started looking into this service back in UM and by
April cops had actually uh successfully pushed malware onto some
of these users devices that gave them the ability to
(19:26):
let's just say, rewrote the encryptions, ben how about that,
But at the very least get through them and be
able to see what's going on, see through the encryption,
be aware doing some illegal with phones, hanging out on
somebody else's phone or computer. Watch out. Yeah. So, guys,
while we've been having this discussion, I've been taking the
(19:46):
screenshots of my fingers uh through with this camera here,
I am unable at this moment at least using this
old MacBook Pro camera to enhance by fingers enough to
clearly make out my fingerprints. But again, if you're using
some kind of algorithm or something, perhaps you're photoshop in photoshop. Yeah,
(20:08):
just attempting just to see if I could do it
on a low tech way. To make it out to
the two most full proof ways to avoid identification in
this manner, this lasting I'll say, beause and we're kind
of long, but the two most full proof ways are
to one not have your hands photographed and give up
your dreams of being a hand model, which can hit people,
(20:31):
you know, and that can be a tough thing. Or uh,
to take physical methods to hide, either hide or remove
your fingerprints that are possible. It can, you can do it.
It is if you remove them. It is not and
not painful procedure, and it is also not a permanent
(20:51):
one depending on how you do it. So like if
you slice off your fingertips, they'll grow back. Yeah, didn't
that character The Killer and seven do that? So acid
or some kind of scarifications probably your best move. But
I think if you're at the point where you're realistically
saying maybe I shouldar raise my fingerprints with acid. You
(21:13):
can take a couple of steps back and ask yourself,
how did I get here? Yeah, and and I would
I would highly recommend Illumination Global's human skin gloves so
that they've been selling, They've just been flying off the shelves.
It feels so much like your own skin when you
put them on. I would just recommend those totally, and
just just to sew this up. UM, a cybersecurity UM
(21:37):
expert consultant from the University of Surrey, had this to
say about it. His name is Alan Woodward UM, and
he just cautioned criminals against you know, believing that any
of these methods are full proof. He says, if Anchor
Chat showed anything, it was that criminals need to be
looking over their shoulder. As a law enforcement agencies will
not simply give up. They will look for other ways
(22:00):
repeat the success they had with anchor Chat. It may
not follow the same pattern, but law enforcement agencies are
learning to be innovative just as the criminals are. Add
to this the power of working internationally, and I think
we'll see some more surprises. So something to keep an
eye on. UM. But in the meantime, let's take a
quick sponsor break, and then we've back with some more
listener mail. Hello, welcome back. Hey, I hope you enjoyed
(22:27):
that ad break. We are now in the midst of
our second segment, and we are going to someone named
Connor who experienced something a little bit strange one night
out on the road. Connor, Hello, good evening. My name
is Connor. UM. I just want to give you guys
a call. U. You know how much I enjoy the show. Uh,
(22:49):
And I didn't really know where else to go with
this story, but you guys explore a lot of the unknown,
Neon explained, so I thought this would be a good
place to start. Um. This encounter happened about eight years
ago in Savannah, Georgia. It was Friday night during our
senior high school in and my best friend Brennan and
(23:12):
I were on the way to a party out in Pooler, Georgia,
and we were driving uh since we hadn't gotten to
the party yet, we were still sober um going maybe
about fifty five and we turned down this quieter street
near Pooler. I remember it was a super nice night out,
so we had all the windows down. The moon roof open,
and as the street lights started to disappear, I remember
(23:35):
leaning my head back and staring out the moon roof,
and all of a sudden, I saw what looked like
hundreds of glowing and pulsating orbs that were just flying
in a perfect grid pattern across the sky. UM. I
just remember saying, Brennan, and we looked at each other uh,
and stared up at the sky and off UM. And
(23:58):
before we knew it, we looked at on the road
and we saw several vehicles pulled over ahead of us.
Um that people are getting out and just staring and
pointing up at the sky. So we did the same.
We pulled over behind the row of cars and got
out and just started staring up at the sky with
everybody else. We were just kind of in awe UM
(24:19):
and stood there for a while when an older gentleman
walked over to us and you know, looked up at
the guy just said, you'll never see anything like this again, boys.
And after a few minutes, the orbs flew past us
and out of sight. UM. So we jumped in the
car to see if you find him again, but didn't
have any luck. And ever since that day, Brandon and
(24:40):
I have repeatedly tried to find any news reports or
documentation about what we saw that night, but never found anything. Um.
It's the only encounter of, you know, something like that
that either of us had ever had, And to this day,
whenever we get together, one of us will end up
bringing it up and we'll just talk about how we
keep looking for information about it. UM. Outside of that,
(25:03):
I just want to let you guys know how much
I appreciate everything you do, how much I enjoy the show. UM,
and I just wanted to leave you with this weird story.
See what you guys think, and maybe someone else out
there see something like it. Thanks. Oh man. First off,
could I can I just say, Matt Connor, that is
the coolest old guy you are going to meet for
(25:26):
a long time. Was like, yeah, you never see that again?
Watching did you guys? Did you guys hear that detail?
Like the guy came up as this was happening. I
was like, well, boys were going to see something like
that again? And I who in my head Connor, you
and Brennan and this mysterious older guy just sort of
(25:49):
stood there together in silence. Or alternately, the old guy
just disappears in a poof of smoke. I'd be down
with that too. It's a possibility for sure. So yeah,
just Connor, thank you so much for the kind words
and for telling us about your experience that. Uh, my goodness,
I wish I could experience something like you got to
(26:09):
see on the road there. Um. It makes me specifically
think about some of these recent U a P. Now
we call them u AP sightings. Connor, it really is.
It's sexy, um, but it reminds me of especially the
thing that Jeremy Corbell person that we've had on the
(26:32):
show before. He recently posted on Twitter and has been
talking about it in the media a lot lately. UM,
some radar imagery of a essentially swarm of unidentified aerial phenomena.
He's been showing footage radar footage of a UFO or
u a P swarm essentially. That reminds me a lot
(26:53):
of this. And you know, it doesn't mean that has
anything to do with what you saw, but that's certainly
in the zeitgeist right now, and so interesting to me
that you saw that way back in two thousand twelve. Um.
And also, congratulations Connor and making it through the myan
apocalypse as we I guess all, did I suppose go us?
Things feel pretty post apocalyptic? I think what happens or
(27:16):
it's happening, because that's the thing. H apocalypse doesn't just happen, right, No,
it's like a slow build, you know, it's like a
death by a thousand cuts apocalypse. There we go. And
part of that was, you know, a grid pattern U
a P siding in Pooler, Georgia, just west of Savannah, Georgia.
I'm just joking, but yeah. I also in my my
(27:37):
search for any specific information about that night or you
know that kind of sighting, I was unable to find
anything either, at least initially. I did not contact your
local MOUF on Mutual uphone network or anything like that.
So I haven't I haven't gone all the way down
the rabbit hole yet with this, but perhaps there's something
else there, and I would love to know if there's
(27:59):
anyone else Listen near Savannah, Georgia, Pool or Bloomingdale, Garden City, whatever,
if you're out there, maybe you two saw something what
I would point out you guys immediately like between essentially
between Savannah in Pool or Georgia, there's this place called
the Savannah Hilton Head International Airport and they are you know,
(28:24):
they have a lot of things that fly both inwardly
and outwardly from that airport, So I am I'm wondering
if there was something there, but I'm assuming being in Pooler,
you know that stuff is flying in and out of
that airport all the time, and you wouldn't mistake, you know,
something at least regular as what you saw. And also
(28:45):
be interested Connor when you say you guys have looked you,
you and your pal Bretta, and have looked into possible
sources or cooperation or even other people who would had
an eyewitness experience, Like Matt said, how far did you
take it as far as you know contacting local law enforcement,
which is always a blast, he said sarcastically, to ask
(29:06):
them if they had any reports. Um, maybe check with
f a A. There's someone at the airport you could
call to ask about this. Moufon has had some pretty
significant internal problems over the last few years, but the
a lot of the local organizations, local versions of the
organization are doing great work. And I think that's an
(29:28):
excellent suggestion, Matt. The other ways you could go, It
really depends on how deep into the detective role playing
you wish to find yourself because you could also contact
radio stations. You can also contact I would say, look
into former news reporters or current news reporters who are
(29:49):
working at that time. It can become a time vampire, dude, honestly,
it can. But it's the payoff is you have to
decide going into it in advance. You have to decide
that you may not find the pay off you're looking for,
and if you do, it's gonna make all the work
worth it. Matt, it's super interesting to me man that
you're a mind reader. I thought of Jeremy as well.
(30:11):
Oh yeah, I had that image in my mind, the
way the way Connor was describing the grid pattern, and
honestly what it didn't seem to be that organized in
Jeremy Corbell's released footage of that the naval radar. But
you guys have got a wrinkle for you. Just just
(30:32):
south and U tiny tiny bit west of Savannah, there's
another airport, but it's not really an airport, it's an
air field. It's the Hunter Army Airfield. And if you
go to Apple maps, Google Maps, a lot of places
you can't actually go in there. It's great out because
it's a military Uh, it's property of the military, so
(30:54):
you can't like look at everything there from a satellite
point of view, but it is is you know, I
think worth noting. If you happen to be looking in
that direction from Pooler, which is not that far away,
I imagine you could see something out in the distance. Um,
and if something was traveling from that airfield, I don't know,
(31:15):
I can totally imagine it being over Pooler at some point.
That's a really good point because if you look at
it driving distance, Pooler is pretty much right there. It's
twenty minutes away, right five. Is the crow flies? That's
they used to say, But I guess it depends if
they're if they're on like let's say Pine Barren Road
(31:38):
out there in Pooler or maybe South Rogers or the
Pooler Parkway. Yeah, they're like they're right there. Oh, I
thought you were going to tell me it depends on
something about the crow with the statement as the fly
to be like, well, you know, mating season, is that?
What's the what's the crow rules? Ben the very h
(31:59):
amorphous on sensical crow rules. We're talking about it yesterday.
Every time when someone dies and it's bad. A crew
comes and spirits there soul away, the land of the dead,
and sometimes sometimes it brings it back. It's like Highlander rules.
You know, it's very unclear as to exactly how it works.
(32:20):
Can I get a was that a been impression? That was? Then? No,
it was like a like a like a creepy voiceover
movie impression. So I been impression again? Fair enough? Just
it's just it's a peak behind the scenes. We were
at our uh we're at our local bar for a second,
(32:41):
and longtime listeners will make you'll know the terribly creative
name of our local bar. Uh. And we're talking about
you guys. You know, I have a crow, a corvid
in general fascination. We're talking about a friend of ours
who had just recently seen the crow for the first
time as an adult. And I just love how they
don't spend much time explaining why this crow situation breaks
(33:06):
down that way, but still the crow. Let us know
if you've seen it, if it holds up for you. Uh,
massive amounts of cocaine in that film. I was a kid,
and it was I saw it before I saw a scarface,
and I remember thinking simultaneously like did they get in
trouble for filming this, because I've never had a great
grasp by the separation of fact and fiction. And then
(33:27):
also thinking immediately after, am I going to get in
trouble for watching this? Is there like some threshold of
amounts of cocaine where seeing them also makes you involved
in the criminal act? That was the scariest part of
the crow for me. It's also a good tell as
to who's the bad guy. It's usually the guy with
the giant mountain of cocaine and the giant pinky nail
(33:48):
that he's using to scoop it and you know, snoot it. Yeah,
except it blow where he's Johnny Depp plays kind of
an anti hero, tragic figure. But Matt, yes, Swarms, You've
done some leg work here, man, I admire it. I
just sent you one extra thing. I sent it in
our chat right now. This is probably unrelated, but I'm
(34:11):
sending it to you anyway, so you guys can see
it in twenty nineteen, I think, let me see. I
love how how my voice went there. Um, I believe
it was twenty nineteen. Why can't thank you, good lord
appreciate it? I was looking in the actual YouTube text. Okay,
(34:32):
in twenty nineteen, there was a video taken of the
space X Starlink UH satellites, a swarm of them, if
you will. It's not really a swarm. It's more like
a very organized line of Starlink satellites. Um. So this
is seven years after, or around seven years after Connor
and his friends had his sighting. But you can watch
(34:56):
a video of these Starlink satellites and it is in
edible to see them because it does look like a um,
I don't know, I don't know how to describe it
other than a line of lights that seem to be connected,
almost like the video game Halo in a way, like
it seems to look like just a string of lights.
(35:17):
Really that's just somehow huge and flying way above you. Um.
And I would recommend watching this video just to get
an idea of how strange that would be if you
actually viewed it from the ground. Yeah, that's a great
call to man, because I think unless you unless you
already know what you're looking at or what to expect,
this looks extraordinary. It's exceedingly strange, and it's it's important
(35:40):
at this point, Connor for us to note that, uh,
none of us, none of us are telling you definitively
what you guys saw, If anything, I'm curious to hear
a follow up email or message to tell me more
about this old man. I love his vibe, I love
his whole thing. Want to hear more about him, And
(36:01):
I want to hear if he's whether he said anything,
because his one line is super interesting right from a
screenwriting perspective, even it's like somehow he knows he will
never see this again. I just feel like I feel
like he should be like Ala Scooby Doo, like I should.
His name should be like like old Man wins Low.
You know, maybe he runs a haunted amusement park. He's like,
(36:22):
I'm not gonna see that another thing like that in
this lifetime poof first name Carl, Old Carl Winslow. UFO
guy um No. But it's I I totally I love
this idea, Ben. But what if the old Man was
somehow connected to the sighting? What if they were What
if it was his fleet, you know, and he was
(36:43):
just observing us, observing it in a way to understand
the way humans think about advanced technology. What if it
was a threat. What if that was you'll never see
something like this again. What if that was more of him, uh,
not just being a fellow observer, but he's telling these
guys they slipped up and and uh maybe saw the
(37:03):
wrong thing. Oh that's a little more foreboding. Uh our
sinister interpretation of it. Um. It makes me think of
an excellent movie that I know we've talked about, but
if anyone missed that, I can't remember when we've discussed it,
but it's come up a time or two, called The
Vast of Night. Uh. That came out last year, I
want to say, and it was a very small, uh
(37:25):
indie film, absolutely beautifully made, and it's about a rural
kind of UFO sighting. But I think it takes place
in like the fifties and revolves around radio transmissions and
like different tones and things being broadcast. But I highly
recommend everyone checked that film out if you haven't already
seen it, that's right. And again, last call to anybody
else out there near Savannah, did you see anything in
(37:46):
two thousand twelve? Let us know we look forward to
hearing from you. We're gonna take a quick break and
we will be right back. Thanks again, Connor. Here are
some hats. Wow those ads you know, I gotta tell
you we took some time behind the scenes. We just
(38:09):
regroups listen to ads. So well done standing ovation tent, tent,
no notes, bills to they do they do pay the bills.
So thank you for stinking with us through the break.
We hope you enjoyed the break as much as we did.
Our final story for today follows up on a piece
(38:33):
that I believe was in strange news regarding the ongoing
crisis with sexual assault kits, which are conventionally known as
rape kits. This is the part of the segment that
we put a disclaimer slash trigger warning for at the top. However,
(38:54):
we believe this information is important. It's part of the
mission of this show too, to examine to understand corruption,
conspiracy crisises that don't make it to the national news
near as often as they should. And as you know,
fellow conspiracy realist, my colleagues and I endeavor to find
(39:15):
primary sources. We want the firsthand experience. We want to
hear from what are sometimes colloquially called the boots on
the ground, and this is where Steve b comes in. Steve,
a number of weeks ago, you wrote to us in
response to questions about the ongoing catastrophe with backlogs for
(39:40):
rape kits. So we're gonna share your letter, and then
we're going to dive in in a way that hopefully
gives all of us a better understanding of this credibly disturbing,
uh and profoundly serious situations. So here we go, Steve,
you say, hello, I'm a police officer in Minnesota for
a city with a over three hundred thousand people. We
(40:02):
take the rape kit serious and sexual assault serious. I
can tell you every sexual assault that we take, we
try to get the victim to go to the hospital
and complete the kit. We handle every kit processed. However,
Steve continues, I can tell you the main hospital in
our city has about a thousand kits that are unprocessed.
(40:24):
They have two refrigerators full of these kits. The kit
is only a small box, about three inches by two
inches by one inch. Here's the problem with the number
of rape kits that have gone unprocessed. A victim can
walk into a hospital and say they were raped but
don't want the police called. They still go through the
(40:46):
process of the kit, which is called a SAME KIT,
which stands for Sexual Assault Nurse Examination Kit and Steve says,
the hospital will not call the police for a victim.
The victim must do it on their our own. So
if a victim completes the kit, and implying that if
they do the kit and they don't make the call,
(41:06):
it sits in the same fridge until the victim wants
it released to the police. Steve says, I have spoken
to a sane nurse and she told me the oldest
one in that fridge was nine years old. Yeah, and
Steve continues, I cannot speak for other states, but that
is the issue adding to those unprocessed numbers for Minnesota.
(41:30):
And this is a question that we had asked your
call in our earlier times on air with this topic.
We we had asked first responders and law enforcement and
people who had experiential knowledge of this matter to help
us understand what's going on here. And one of the
(41:50):
points that the three of us brought up rightly so
I think, is that unfortunately, all too often members of
law enforcement may disregard or ignore somebody's claim assault for
any number of reasons. Uh. There's actually a site called
end the Backlog dot org. YEP. It's an organization called
(42:13):
The Joyful Heart foundation, and they have some interesting stats.
There are cases in which um, you know, so these
are these rape kits are entered into evidence or you know,
filed into these you know, evidence rooms, storage rooms, but
it can't but sometimes detectives or prosecutors don't actually request
the DNA to be analyzed, so they can be taken,
but they're not required to be analyzed. Um. So that's
(42:35):
one reason for the backlog UM and that is considered
untested or unsubmitted rape kits. Uh. There's another factor when
the backlog literally just comes from lack of personnel to
process them in a efficient and timely manner, which is
the second and probably most troubling part of the backlog. UM.
And this Joyful Heart Foundation um is you know, believes
(42:59):
that all rape it's should be tested, even if that
is not requested to be done by the prosecutor or detectives.
But again, uh, there are no federal laws that require
tracking and testing of these rape kits, so it's hard
to you know, know exactly how many are going untested,
but it is estimated that hundreds of thousands of untested
(43:19):
kits remain in these uh police storage facilities. Yeah, and
I'd like to I'd like to step back before we
continue with that, because one of the things that I
really want to hit here for to to clarify for
everybody who is in aware, you'll hear about these kits,
and you'll you'll hear these phrases thrown around quite a bit.
(43:40):
I like saying kits because hearing the hearing the R
word can be quite triggering for survivors of these sorts
of attacks. But when you hear that word thrown around,
what what does it mean? What does it describe? What
exactly is this kit? It's pretty basic stuff. And I
don't mean that as a criticism of any sort. In
(44:04):
these situations, it's better to have the most basic, most
reliable components. I think we can all agree. You get instructions,
bags and sheets for evidence collection, swabs for collecting fluids
from different parts of the body, uh, sterile urine collection containers,
sample containers, blood collecting devices, a comb to be used
(44:27):
for collecting evidence from a victim's hair, glass slides, self
sealing envelopes, nail picks, and then generic like white sheets
to catch I mean physical evidence that might have been
stripped from the body. Because unfortunately, these are not always
the victims aren't always alive, and these things are used
and the and then to go forward with that one
(44:51):
thing I love about and the backlog is yet as
as you said, that's one of the first things they
talk out is where this backlog comes from. There is
a third factor that end the backlog doesn't address right
on that main page that we're talking about, and it
(45:11):
is the cost of these kits, right the adjust for
the ingredients. The ingredients are relatively inexpensive, even in a
place like the US that absolutely gouges people on medical
devices and equipment. But this, uh, this process, we think
of each kit in terms of not just the physical materials,
(45:34):
but also the processing. Then I went to the g
b I, which is the state level Georgian version of
the Federal Bureau of Investigation, and according to them, it
cost about nine dollars per kit to Yeah, which is
more expensive than I thought it would be, you know. Um,
but again you know, having no reference for this, they
(45:57):
say that they have twenty one trained DNA analysts dedicated
to testing these kits. Uh. They have the problem like
if they are if all pistons are firing and the
wind is at their back, then they can process up
to two hundred and ninety four assault kits per month,
but typically they do between two hundred and two twenty
(46:19):
because things keep moving to the front of the line
for one reason or another, and this may this may
startle and disturb some of us to learn there are
things known as priority request. I am sure there are
valid and compelling reasons for that. But upon first hearing that,
that sounds a little well messed up, doesn't it? Like
it does? It does? I understand the cost though, I
(46:42):
mean because you know of the analysis, because they're not
they're analyzing multiple different UH sources. I mean, like you're
talking about nail picks that could be for um, scraping
DNA from underneath thing, announce from perhaps fighting back against
an assailant, and then you might end up with blood
or to SHO underneath the finger. Now, so that's one.
Then you obviously have the potential for semen UH and
(47:05):
also the potential for other fluids elsewhere on the body,
you know, And like you said, all of these different
things are each their own test, I imagine, so I
can kind of understand why it would be so costly,
but obviously absolutely necessary. So there must be some way
to subsidize it or you know how what's the solution.
I wonder what is really interesting because according to that
(47:26):
Fox article you're you're talking about it, it does seem
like at least of the governor, the current government of
Georgia is attempting to cut back so right there, they're
having to scale back quite a bit in the the lab,
the GBI labs. But it does feel like with Emery,
with Georgia Tech, with all of these you know, institutions, U,
(47:47):
g A, we could find a way in Georgia to
make this kind of testing streamlined and maybe done you know,
through a university system where they're younger people who want
to train to do this kind of testing. It's yeah,
and that's something Steve that you said that I really appreciate.
Like you, you have laid out, uh very solid argument
(48:12):
that at times law enforcements hands are tied, right because
there are there are any number of rules or policies
that are designed to protect victims of these attacks. Right,
if you do not want the police involved, if you
do not want um, you know, to risk your private
(48:33):
information or your identity being leaked to an often vicious
and exploitative press, then obviously that should that should be
the primary concern um into It sounds weird saying, but
maybe in defense of like the the prioritization of kits,
maybe they're trying to find a serial assaulter or they
(48:56):
have a lead or something, and that that puts it
to the front of line because they're try and enclose
the case. But still, this is the thing that stays
with me about this. Uh, everyone listening, The statistics are
pretty clear. Testing these kids getting through this backlog, maybe
not in every state, but somewhere in the US, would
(49:16):
expose and quite likely lead to the arrest of a
serial sexual assaulter or confirmed crimes that they were able
to escape justice for, you know what I mean, because
a lot of those a lot of those folks are
already imprisoned for something else. I would imagine that's serfs
they caught. So they would find repeat offenders and they
(49:37):
would match it to a single source that is already
on record. That's fascinating, man, I never thought about that,
But it's a It is a good point, and I
think a good argument for why even But it's all
about resources, right, Like I mean, police forces and and
and all these local you know, bureaus of investigation are
short staffed, and there's a lot more crimes often than
(49:58):
there are personnel. So it's a delicate balancing act. But
it seems very important because this is one of the
most egregious crimes you know out there, literally taking from
someone the most sacred and personal kind of experience. Right.
But at the same just as a counterpoint, there are
so many homicides every day. I mean, you cannot compare
(50:21):
one crime with another, necessarily, but the complete loss of
human life, it's a tough thing to argue with it.
It's me right, I don't know, it's a tough thing
to argue, but I would just say, in these crime labs,
when there is a homicide and DNA maybe needs to
be tested for that, I can imagine that taking priority.
And that's again that's an issue of limited resources there,
(50:45):
as you guys pointed out. And I also think it
is crucial that we define what backlog means. Those were
two What is a rape kit? What is a backlog?
Those are two of the things I absolutely wanted to
hit somewhere in this segment. The backlog is tough, Oh
show you this. There's a little bit of math involved.
But you can just do it in your head and
(51:06):
quickly see the problem without walking through all the sums
according in place I was coining earlier in the backlog,
every seventy three seconds someone is sexually assaulted in the
United States. That's a pretty solid statistic. A sexual assault
kit is officially considered backlogged if it has not been
submitted for DNA analysis, which usually detectives or prosecutors have
(51:31):
to specifically request. It's knoped in, not an opt out.
If that kit has been sitting around and hasn't gone
for analysis within ten days of the evidence being submitted,
it's considered backlogged. So these things aren't waiting around all
the time for nine years. But there is a lot
of stuff getting lost in the system. And unfortunately in
(51:53):
this society, uh, there there's a crime of this sort
every seventy three seconds. So the backlog builds very quickly,
and without more funding, more visibility, uh, probably some different policies,
it's going to be very difficult to address this problem.
And and of course you know there are members of
(52:14):
law enforcement, members of in geos, like in the backlog,
who are working around the clock to make this better,
to bring justice to these people. But those those numbers,
I think give us a very real sense of the problem.
If you are wondering, if you're in the US and
you're wondering what's happening in your state, Uh, then one
of the best things to do would be to check
(52:37):
out the interactive map that is on in the backlog,
where you can go state by state and see their
status of their policies, whether they've reformed things where your
home state is essentially in terms of resolving this. And
as I had said at that previous uh in our
previous Strange News, we know that these reforms can have measurable,
(53:01):
significant positive results. So it's very well worth it. Even
though it's an issue you know that many politicians would
later would would probably prefer not to talk about when
they're campaigning, right, because it makes people think of horrific things.
But Matt, you clocked something that I'm glad you mentioned
(53:22):
it because we had to mention it's some some level. Uh. Yes,
the current governor of our state of Georgia, when Brian
Kemp is asking for is asking for significant budget cuts,
especially the g b I and especially there's state Crime Lab.
Feels like there are other things you could cut from
(53:43):
a budget, you know what I mean, like governor salary. Yep.
I know, I know, not everybody, not everybody can do that,
but we've all heard the stories of like CEO is
refusing to accept event for something. But and look, I'm
not a fan of Brian kemp um um he, in
(54:04):
my opinion, is not the best dude. Uh, and recently
signed this heartbeat bill into law that fundamentally deprives women
of the ability to get an abortion beyond a very
very limited window of time. And it's all kind of
based around these evangelical ideals about like a heartbeat and
the soul. And I know these are all very loaded issues,
(54:24):
but to me, this this, this, this feels like something
someone like that would also be like who cares? You know,
like we're not letting women take control over their bodies
and we're also not helping them out when they've been
sexually assaulted. So yeah, and there could be there could
be an aspect there where the reporters are spinning a
(54:49):
perspective of their own. You know. Uh, there's no there's
no proof that the governor of Georgia or really any
state level federal level official is sitting around like steepling
their fingers Monty Burns style and saying is let's cut
the budget in the way it huch people the most
(55:10):
like that doesn't happen. They're thinking of spreadsheets and numbers,
and it's incredibly dehumanized, right because the US really only
tends to do something about important issues if there is
a face that can be put on it for the
evening news. When you hear statistics like this evil, evil
(55:34):
thing happens to people every seventy three seconds. What you're
hearing is the idea of a crime and every seventy
three seconds. But if every seventy three seconds you gotta
text with the name of the person this was happening to,
I guarantee you the enormity of this miscarriage of justice
(55:54):
would hit completely differently. I mean, when you agree like,
I don't know, maybe I'm being too optimistic because I'm
thinking of amber alerts. I certainly that's tough. Man. That's
a really interesting counterpoint. I do feel like associated. I mean,
I would take it a step further and say, you know,
you often see with people in power that they don't
(56:15):
really care about an issue until it happens to someone
they love. And then they make it a pet, pet
cause or a pet project of their's, but otherwise tend
to not be particularly uh empathetic to others because of
that faceless spreadsheety kind of quality of the whole thing
for for my money, on the end the backlog dot
(56:36):
org site, it's kind of hard to it might be
difficult to get to, but they've got an article or
a page here that says test kits stop serial rapists.
And if you go down here you can see three
individual people. They're just examples of people who have been
linked to violent crimes and sexual assaults through these kits,
(56:59):
and it just shows you, like, what could happen if you,
you know, if we were able to get rid of
this this issue that we're discussing here, how many people
we could get off the street, at least hopefully in
the best in the worst case scenario, you could nab
a bunch of people who are doing terrible things. Yeah,
(57:21):
and again, to further emphasize and highlight this point, there
are people getting away. There are people have done this.
They are walking free. Statistically speaking, I should say, statistically speaking,
is very likely that is the case, and it is
a problem that is going to require multiple institutions and
(57:45):
authorities and agencies working together. And I think it's a
problem that is both solvable and worth solving. UH, it's
also one that is UH not going to improve anytime
soon and us unless they're serious action taken. So thank
you to end the backlog. Thank you to everybody who
(58:06):
works in the fields of medical, physical, and mental health UH,
and thank you especially to Steve, because I think a
lot of people, perhaps us included on the show today UH,
did not realize that there were there were hard ways
for any number of stakeholders to prevent UH an investigation
(58:27):
or prevent the processing of these And with that in mind,
we would like to hear your experiences with this process,
your ideas of these attempted solutions, and we'd also like
to hear about the things you've seen in the sky.
As Matt said, if you are from the Pool or
Savannah metro area, we'd also like to say it because
(58:49):
I don't want this to be a total downer ending. UM,
what's the weirdest cheese you ever tried? There's Kazu mirzu,
which I haven't tried yet because it's only made in
Sardinia and it's illegal like seriously illegal to have some
of it, which don't understand, But mafioso, if you're out there,
hit me up. There's also some cheeses I believe that
(59:11):
like contain live maggots. That's the one boom. Why is it?
Why is it illegal? Does it make you like trip balls? No?
I think it's just violating several very well established healthcoat standards.
Have you guys heard of the concept of high meat?
High meat? Is this like trend where people literally leave
(59:35):
meat out to rot, uh and become infested with maggots
and turn green and like you know, moldy and fungacy,
and they eat it and it claims to get them
high high meat. It's a long road to go down.
It really is to each their own. But good lord,
what have we become? I just didn't read it in
(59:58):
the Anarchists cookbook, so I'm gonna be honest. I probably
would have tried it if I if I had read
about it, I may have accidentally tried it. But if
that was the situation, I wasn't looking to get high,
and it wasn't like monitoring whether I felt good about
whatever horrible misadventure I was in. Speaking of that by
the way, guys, I went through my I was in
(01:00:19):
the office again. I went through my office desk, and
right on the top of it, on in one of
these locked or drawers, there was a how to Diffuse
a bomb how to Diffuse a bomb like manual. I
don't know why I have it. I don't know what
it's doing in my desk, but it's there. I mean,
it's better to have it and not need it than
(01:00:39):
to need it and not have it. You know, if
it's got to be at the office or a place
where other people might be going through your stuff, it's
better to have the book about diffusing bombs. Yes, you're right.
Oh well, don't go through my stuff. I already found it.
So so that's our show for to a thank you,
(01:01:00):
as always to everyone who took the time to write
to us, to email us, to call us. If you
want to take a page from your fellow conspiracy realist book,
we would love to hear from you your personal experience
with the stories we explore today. We'd also love to
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(01:01:21):
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(01:01:43):
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(01:02:26):
the old opt in, opt out game or game of framing,
and we I think we talked about this in previous episode.
But my favorite example is when a couple of different
countries or communities changed their organ donation option on a
license from opt in to opt out, and so many
(01:02:48):
people just don't bother to opt out, so they were
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(01:04:19):
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production of I Heart Radio. Welcome back to the show.
(00:25):
My name is Matt, my name is nol Nay call
me Ben. We're joined as always with our super producer,
all mission controlled deconds. Most importantly, you are you. You
are here, and that makes this stuff they don't want
you to know. As I adjust my camera on the zoom.
Uh so, long time listeners, you know what day this
(00:46):
stuff comes out. This is our weekly listener mail segment
where we share some of our favorite and our most
important pieces of correspondence from your fellow conspiracy realists. Quick
heads up, everybody listening, maybe with younger folks in the
crowd with you or in the car wherever you find yourself.
(01:08):
Uh there does need to be a disclaimer for today's
listener mail segment. We do have a segment that will
be covering um covering content of a sexual nature, and
we feel this is vital information. We also feel it
may not be appropriate for all our fellow listeners. Uh so,
(01:32):
do take that into consideration. But We're not starting there.
We're gonna We're gonna start with something a little less heavy,
but still I would argue scary in its own way.
Our first story, I believe it starts with cheese, doesn't
It sure does. Cheese and encryption gonna ry people feeling
(01:54):
too comfortable on the Internet. That's a thing. And before
we get into the story, this came to us by
way of clever another good alias UH in a story
full of aliases UH, and the subject says it all
drug dealer busted by cheese pick. Hello, A longtime listener
and enjoyer of your podcast, and I would like to
share a bit of strange news. I had seen on
(02:15):
the front website page of my local news site that
a man from the UK had been jailed due to
fingerprint analysis of a picture he took holding a block
of cheese. I will link the scene in an article. Uh.
They took the story from below my message, but I
thought this was wildly fascinating and wanted to share it
with you guys. I also thought it would be a
great if uh. Most likely Matt spoke about this story
(02:37):
and would bring up the craziness but also the crazy
tools that law enforcement have to be able to use
against people. This is a great and weird story with
possibly horrifying consequences for the average citizen due to the
nutso bonker's way, government and law enforcement can catch people.
I trust you guys will be able to do this
story justice. Best and warmest concerns Clever. Hey, thanks for
(02:59):
the shout out. By the way, Clever, Sorry it wasn't
me this time. Ha ha, But you're here. But but
you're here, Matt, You're here. Great name too, Clever. By
the way, seriously, I have this image of Clever, you know,
like looking around the kitchen and saying which piece of
cutlery will I go by? And as the templar said
to indeed you have chosen wisely. And also there's only one.
(03:23):
It's true, there is one. And it also is the
name of the movie inside of the television series The Sopranos,
which I will not stop talking about. Um that Christopher
makes along with some of his mob financiers. It's like
a horror movie about a mob boss who gets hacked
into small pieces and re animates and comes back to
life as the titular murderous Clever who comes back for
(03:47):
revenge against those that wronged him. UM, very very multifascined
name there. All right, well clever, take it away. You know,
for the longest time anyone let's just okay, no judgment here.
But anyone who's perhaps have found themselves procuring illegal substances
in some form of fashion probably has been told don't text,
(04:08):
you know, don't text things that are incriminating. Um, and
probably best just not to text stuff like that at
all with your plug. I believe it is the is
the term the kids use or make up a silly
code word. I think the statutes passed. I'll say that
that was one of my favorite things in the younger
days was uh. I would know people had these elaborate
(04:31):
systems for their text team, for their like uh any
any kind of slang you could imagine. It's just somebody
was a little bit high and they were like, hey man,
you got any more of that peanut butter or something
equally sure, Or you could go the kind of you know,
measurement route where it's like, yeah, I want to get
(04:52):
a mixed CD. Let me get a thirty minute mix
CD or a sixty minute mix CD or a hundred
and twenty minute mix CD. Right, uh, an you think
about this is elaborate. I honestly didn't know what this happened. Well,
you're a you're a good lad Matt, and we love
you dearly. But it's a thing. Um. But here's the thing.
These days, probably for the last you know, ten years maybe, um,
(05:16):
the emergence of these encrypted apps for communicating with said
plug have become a thing. I actually remember being on
a work trip in New York and just kind of
like flipping through the you know, the local kind of
city pages or whatever. Maybe what would be the equivalent
of our creative loafing here or stomp and Stammer or
(05:38):
something like that's sort of like an independent rag you
know that has like classifies in the back and actually
seeing pretty brazen advertisements for drug dealers in the back
um that require the use of an app called Telegram.
Telegram is sort of the popular one I think these
days still because it is encrypted and it's directly to
the source, and there's like message boards that you can
(06:00):
view where maybe a dealer has their menu or something
on there. But certain group of dealers have really taken
this to an extreme with an app called ink row
Chat E n c R O chat UM and and
it actually is even more elaborate than this, because it's
not an app you can get in the app store.
It's a very kind of exclusive UM app that actually
(06:23):
involves a specific I guess jailbroken phone that has like
a code you can enter into it to wipe all
local data UM and all records of these transactions. Unfortunately,
that doesn't work so well when police UM infiltrate said
app or said network, when police actually get one of
(06:44):
these phones themselves and are acting as either a user
or a dealer themselves. But the thing is, this is
not just a casual drug forum for you know, buying
and selling marijuana for example. This is very elaborate and
involves moving lots and lots of weight. This is more
of a traffickers type app UM. So some big fish
(07:07):
using this service UM. And even in in a press
release UM around the story that I'm about to talk about, UH,
there is discussion of folks using this to plan hits
even against rival dealers. So very very high level crime
going on in this app. UH. And obviously this is
(07:27):
a in in in England or in the United Kingdom
where this story is centered, where in a local man
from Liverpool. Um was recently arrested because he you know,
was posting on this app using an alias UM and
he you know alias meaning like like a screen name,
which I believe was something like Toffee Toffee King or
(07:50):
Toffee Force t o f f E Force. And if
the toffee and then name indicates that this guy was
maybe into you know, culinary pursuits, well that's that's that's
totally true, um, because he posted in addition to posting
pictures of drugs and all of that, um, he posted
a picture of a substance that, to your brain may
(08:10):
as well be a drug. They say that cheese is
to one's brain almost as addictive as like say, crack
or cocaine. Um. Cheese sets off some of these uh
pleasure centers responses in a very similar way to hard drugs. Uh.
And it can become addictive in that way obviously a
little more benign long term. You might gain a little
(08:31):
weight which probably not gonna overdose, or you know, you know,
have some sort of debilitating addiction that you just might
just be you know, cheese habitual cheese eater. But um, yeah,
this guy Carl Stewart H's thirty nine years old, um.
In the In the press release, he's listed as being
of Gym Street, Liverpool. He was just recently sentenced to
thirteen years and six months in prison by the Liverpool
(08:55):
Crown Court. Um. And that is because and in the
charge for trafficking, conspiracy to traffic cocaine, conspiracy to supply heroin,
conspiracy to supply M D M A and conspiracy to
supply ketamine and transferring criminal property. And it all stemmed
from a picture where he was holding a piece of
stilton blue cheese, specifically mature blue stilton crafted by Long
(09:21):
Claws in in Leicestershire, uh, delicately rich and creamy stilton,
uh from a company called M N S. I'm literally
reading from the label on this picture where you can
see his hands. In addition to his hands, you can
see the pads of his fingers. And as Cleaver said,
this is apparently all it takes for law enforcements to
(09:42):
do a fingerprint analysis, which makes sense considering that phone
picks these days are of pretty seriously high resolution. You know,
they've just gotten you know, every time a new generation
comes out, they just add more megapixels, and even you
know a few generations old phone would likely be enough
to produce a clear enough image that could then be
(10:03):
zoomed in and you can actually see those rings on
the fingers. And again in this image you can see one, two,
three fingers fully unobstructed, um, and they're quite close, close
enough where if I zoomed in, I could myself with
my naked eye see those rings. So, um, fellas, what
what do you think about this technology? Is this something
(10:23):
you were aware of? It makes sense to me. It
doesn't feel like a stretch, but it also feels a
little creepy, right, like for you know, your average Joe
that isn't posting on an illegal encrypted drugs app but
like say, uh, you know, finding out somebody's identity from
Facebook posts or um, using this kind of analysis to
(10:44):
find out information that maybe people would rather keep private. Yeah, look, guys,
I'm over here taking pictures of my fingers with my
what is this an iPhone ten or eleven like whatever one?
It only has one camera on it. But I'm having
trouble getting high enough resolution photo of my fingerprint. Maybe
(11:07):
if I took it into Photoshop, I could like up
the contrast or what do they call it? The structure,
you know, where you can it makes the lines a
little more crisp, or the sharpen you can sharpen the image. Perhaps, Yeah,
I can see some of it, at least the one
that's posted on here on the CNN article doesn't look
(11:27):
like you can clearly see the fingerprints. Maybe I'm being generous,
and that's certainly possible, Matt, But I also maybe doubt it.
They don't look like their soft focus. But you're right,
it was probably being a little bit generous. Um, I'm
zooming in a little bit myself and I can see
some of them. But does this feel like new technology
to you guys? Or does this feel like something that
maybe has been in the works for a long time
(11:48):
or in time. It's not new. It isn't new, Um,
it's been around. Like reporting of this goes back a
few years, which I think should indicate reasonably. This is
just me guessing reasonably that it had been around in
(12:08):
some form before that. You can find stories from police
doing the same thing with what'sapp often with some sort
of proprietary matching technology. You can also see this sort
of the fancy name is biometric identity verification, dating back
even further for a number of years. I think a
(12:31):
lot of it is that there are tech aspects that
you guys are talking about. But to be clear, this
is not as simple as UH someone eyeballying it by
no means, And there are there are things that conclusively
determine whose fingerprints belong to whom in ways that are
not visible to the naked eye, regardless of the resolution.
(12:54):
Well you have fingerprints, yes, fingerprints, sure, but this is
not a fingerprint. This is this is a picture of
a hand right represented by pixels. And like I I
did for me, this is brand new. I've never heard
of a picture of a physical hand that was taken
by a consumer grade phone used to identify for me,
(13:16):
that was brand new. It was to me too. But
after digging a little bit into Ben's point, there is
an article from UH specifically referencing police using a photo
taken from WhatsApp, and in this article they are describing
it in the release as quote pioneering fingerprint techniques. Here's
a here's a little sense we're here's a little snippet
from the South Wales Police UM saying more or less
(13:39):
how they do it, UH speaking about the pioneering techniques
used in this case. Dave Thomas forensic Operations manager at
the Scientific Support Unit added specialist staff within the j
s i U fully utilized their expert image enhancing skills,
which enabled them to provide something that the unit's fingerprint
identification experts could work. Despite being provided with only a
very small section of the fingerprint. And again, this new
(14:01):
one that we're talking about today's story is several full,
fully unobstructive fingers small section of the fingerprint which was
visible in the photograph, the team were able to successfully
identify the individual. So here's the deal. I need to
see this tech at work because they do say they
enhance it, but I don't. I don't believe it, everybody.
(14:25):
I I think they found them out in some other
way and they're using this as like this is like
the old lie detector test where I'm just joking. No, no,
I I thought of that too. I think they're raising
a really good consideration. Met Like when I was looking
through articles like this from CSO online and other sources, Uh,
(14:46):
one thing that I loved was the vague nature of
the you know, when you get to the nuts and
bolts and technology say it's pioneering, right, which means in
my mind that it is publicly admitted to be pioneering
now and and they also used phrases that I feel
like they come from hastily written cops shows enhance enhanced,
(15:09):
can we enhance? You know? And that's right up there
with the nineties hacker movies where people quote re reroute
the encryptions, right, don't worry rerouted the encryptions. Now we're
in and you've got the right noises call throw me
some hacker noises. My favorite thing from the movie Hackers
(15:30):
or and also just from like nineties internet movies is
the visual representation of the Internet where they're like zooming
through like and they're representing the Internet using like buildings
and portals and stuff. Um. But there's even a newer
article that came out just a couple of hours ago
from bank info security dot com um that talks about
(15:50):
more busts that have been done with this infiltration of
this app. And by the way, just a little more
detail that wasn't in the cheese article. Um, this incro
chat app. Again, it came preloaded on a smartphone that's
sold for a thousand dollars and then you'd pay a
six month service plan that was sevent hundred additional dollars
on top of getting the phone. Um. And because they've
(16:13):
infiltrated this, they are absolutely knocking them down, just setting
them up and knocking them down. Um. On May six,
Dutch police rated several addresses in the Hague and Rotterdam
um where they found a quote industrial scale cocaine laboratory
that was hidden in a building also housing a garage
(16:34):
used by criminals to customize vehicles with secret compartments to
transport drugs across Europe. And that is a statement from
Europole UM. So I would think these stories coming out
would certainly cause people to not use this app anymore.
You think they'd made be a little more discreet about it,
wouldn't you like in terms of like outing the app.
You think they would like do the bus, but not
(16:56):
say how they did it? Why, Ben, because they've already
done the bus, they've gotten there. Don't squeeze every last
uh drop of juice out of this crime tangerine. They're
they're going and now they're just sort of let m
let us tell you how this was tasty. It So
maybe plug will william Carlos Williams. But there's another interesting
(17:17):
statistic I found on this as of of people back
then had mobile phones and use them to stab photos
that cops could quote download And there's that word again, enhance.
So this is only accelerated, right, And it's weird because
you know, you think about the r the explosive rise
(17:39):
and prevalence of facial recognition technology, it logically follows that,
at least in my head, it logically follows that other
sorts of physical recognition could be used, you know, like
like your hands. We've ruined the lives of would be
hand models were also criminals and share separate accounts on Instagram.
(17:59):
It's too late, ut popped. Yeah, I think this. I
think the story is like two fold interesting and obviously
because of the the identification technology, but also the level
to which these criminals UM went with this incro chats
to set up. Like they're all Android phones. They're modified
to not contain a SIM card. We always see you
know in uh spy movies or whatever. Like when ever
(18:22):
someone thinks they're being tracked, they take the SIM card
out and break it, you know, and third off a
bridge or whatever. These are sim cardless. Uh. They have
no camera, no microphone, and no GPS capabilities. UM or
a USB port. But despite all of all of these safeguards. Also,
by the way, I also have a dual operating system
with the encrypted set up being hidden so it can't
(18:43):
be even detected. And also this automatic wipe feature that
I was talking about, the deletion UM using a specialized code.
But even still, good old police work prevails, right because
they didn't use technology to infiltrate this system, to my knowledge,
they just used good old fashioned like posing as a criminal. Imagine,
(19:03):
it seems like they did do a little bit of
tech sleuthing here um because according to a release uh
here um or actually some reporting from vice UM, they
started looking into this service back in UM and by
April cops had actually uh successfully pushed malware onto some
of these users devices that gave them the ability to
(19:26):
let's just say, rewrote the encryptions, ben how about that,
But at the very least get through them and be
able to see what's going on, see through the encryption,
be aware doing some illegal with phones, hanging out on
somebody else's phone or computer. Watch out. Yeah. So, guys,
while we've been having this discussion, I've been taking the
(19:46):
screenshots of my fingers uh through with this camera here,
I am unable at this moment at least using this
old MacBook Pro camera to enhance by fingers enough to
clearly make out my fingerprints. But again, if you're using
some kind of algorithm or something, perhaps you're photoshop in photoshop. Yeah,
(20:08):
just attempting just to see if I could do it
on a low tech way. To make it out to
the two most full proof ways to avoid identification in
this manner, this lasting I'll say, beause and we're kind
of long, but the two most full proof ways are
to one not have your hands photographed and give up
your dreams of being a hand model, which can hit people,
(20:31):
you know, and that can be a tough thing. Or uh,
to take physical methods to hide, either hide or remove
your fingerprints that are possible. It can, you can do it.
It is if you remove them. It is not and
not painful procedure, and it is also not a permanent
(20:51):
one depending on how you do it. So like if
you slice off your fingertips, they'll grow back. Yeah, didn't
that character The Killer and seven do that? So acid
or some kind of scarifications probably your best move. But
I think if you're at the point where you're realistically
saying maybe I shouldar raise my fingerprints with acid. You
(21:13):
can take a couple of steps back and ask yourself,
how did I get here? Yeah, and and I would
I would highly recommend Illumination Global's human skin gloves so
that they've been selling, They've just been flying off the shelves.
It feels so much like your own skin when you
put them on. I would just recommend those totally, and
just just to sew this up. UM, a cybersecurity UM
(21:37):
expert consultant from the University of Surrey, had this to
say about it. His name is Alan Woodward UM, and
he just cautioned criminals against you know, believing that any
of these methods are full proof. He says, if Anchor
Chat showed anything, it was that criminals need to be
looking over their shoulder. As a law enforcement agencies will
not simply give up. They will look for other ways
(22:00):
repeat the success they had with anchor Chat. It may
not follow the same pattern, but law enforcement agencies are
learning to be innovative just as the criminals are. Add
to this the power of working internationally, and I think
we'll see some more surprises. So something to keep an
eye on. UM. But in the meantime, let's take a
quick sponsor break, and then we've back with some more
listener mail. Hello, welcome back. Hey, I hope you enjoyed
(22:27):
that ad break. We are now in the midst of
our second segment, and we are going to someone named
Connor who experienced something a little bit strange one night
out on the road. Connor, Hello, good evening. My name
is Connor. UM. I just want to give you guys
a call. U. You know how much I enjoy the show. Uh,
(22:49):
And I didn't really know where else to go with
this story, but you guys explore a lot of the unknown,
Neon explained, so I thought this would be a good
place to start. Um. This encounter happened about eight years
ago in Savannah, Georgia. It was Friday night during our
senior high school in and my best friend Brennan and
(23:12):
I were on the way to a party out in Pooler, Georgia,
and we were driving uh since we hadn't gotten to
the party yet, we were still sober um going maybe
about fifty five and we turned down this quieter street
near Pooler. I remember it was a super nice night out,
so we had all the windows down. The moon roof open,
and as the street lights started to disappear, I remember
(23:35):
leaning my head back and staring out the moon roof,
and all of a sudden, I saw what looked like
hundreds of glowing and pulsating orbs that were just flying
in a perfect grid pattern across the sky. UM. I
just remember saying, Brennan, and we looked at each other uh,
and stared up at the sky and off UM. And
(23:58):
before we knew it, we looked at on the road
and we saw several vehicles pulled over ahead of us.
Um that people are getting out and just staring and
pointing up at the sky. So we did the same.
We pulled over behind the row of cars and got
out and just started staring up at the sky with
everybody else. We were just kind of in awe UM
(24:19):
and stood there for a while when an older gentleman
walked over to us and you know, looked up at
the guy just said, you'll never see anything like this again, boys.
And after a few minutes, the orbs flew past us
and out of sight. UM. So we jumped in the
car to see if you find him again, but didn't
have any luck. And ever since that day, Brandon and
(24:40):
I have repeatedly tried to find any news reports or
documentation about what we saw that night, but never found anything. Um.
It's the only encounter of, you know, something like that
that either of us had ever had, And to this day,
whenever we get together, one of us will end up
bringing it up and we'll just talk about how we
keep looking for information about it. UM. Outside of that,
(25:03):
I just want to let you guys know how much
I appreciate everything you do, how much I enjoy the show. UM,
and I just wanted to leave you with this weird story.
See what you guys think, and maybe someone else out
there see something like it. Thanks. Oh man. First off,
could I can I just say, Matt Connor, that is
the coolest old guy you are going to meet for
(25:26):
a long time. Was like, yeah, you never see that again?
Watching did you guys? Did you guys hear that detail?
Like the guy came up as this was happening. I
was like, well, boys were going to see something like
that again? And I who in my head Connor, you
and Brennan and this mysterious older guy just sort of
(25:49):
stood there together in silence. Or alternately, the old guy
just disappears in a poof of smoke. I'd be down
with that too. It's a possibility for sure. So yeah,
just Connor, thank you so much for the kind words
and for telling us about your experience that. Uh, my goodness,
I wish I could experience something like you got to
(26:09):
see on the road there. Um. It makes me specifically
think about some of these recent U a P. Now
we call them u AP sightings. Connor, it really is.
It's sexy, um, but it reminds me of especially the
thing that Jeremy Corbell person that we've had on the
(26:32):
show before. He recently posted on Twitter and has been
talking about it in the media a lot lately. UM,
some radar imagery of a essentially swarm of unidentified aerial phenomena.
He's been showing footage radar footage of a UFO or
u a P swarm essentially. That reminds me a lot
(26:53):
of this. And you know, it doesn't mean that has
anything to do with what you saw, but that's certainly
in the zeitgeist right now, and so interesting to me
that you saw that way back in two thousand twelve. Um.
And also, congratulations Connor and making it through the myan
apocalypse as we I guess all, did I suppose go us?
Things feel pretty post apocalyptic? I think what happens or
(27:16):
it's happening, because that's the thing. H apocalypse doesn't just happen, right, No,
it's like a slow build, you know, it's like a
death by a thousand cuts apocalypse. There we go. And
part of that was, you know, a grid pattern U
a P siding in Pooler, Georgia, just west of Savannah, Georgia.
I'm just joking, but yeah. I also in my my
(27:37):
search for any specific information about that night or you
know that kind of sighting, I was unable to find
anything either, at least initially. I did not contact your
local MOUF on Mutual uphone network or anything like that.
So I haven't I haven't gone all the way down
the rabbit hole yet with this, but perhaps there's something
else there, and I would love to know if there's
(27:59):
anyone else Listen near Savannah, Georgia, Pool or Bloomingdale, Garden City, whatever,
if you're out there, maybe you two saw something what
I would point out you guys immediately like between essentially
between Savannah in Pool or Georgia, there's this place called
the Savannah Hilton Head International Airport and they are you know,
(28:24):
they have a lot of things that fly both inwardly
and outwardly from that airport, So I am I'm wondering
if there was something there, but I'm assuming being in Pooler,
you know that stuff is flying in and out of
that airport all the time, and you wouldn't mistake, you know,
something at least regular as what you saw. And also
(28:45):
be interested Connor when you say you guys have looked you,
you and your pal Bretta, and have looked into possible
sources or cooperation or even other people who would had
an eyewitness experience, Like Matt said, how far did you
take it as far as you know contacting local law enforcement,
which is always a blast, he said sarcastically, to ask
(29:06):
them if they had any reports. Um, maybe check with
f a A. There's someone at the airport you could
call to ask about this. Moufon has had some pretty
significant internal problems over the last few years, but the
a lot of the local organizations, local versions of the
organization are doing great work. And I think that's an
(29:28):
excellent suggestion, Matt. The other ways you could go, It
really depends on how deep into the detective role playing
you wish to find yourself because you could also contact
radio stations. You can also contact I would say, look
into former news reporters or current news reporters who are
(29:49):
working at that time. It can become a time vampire, dude, honestly,
it can. But it's the payoff is you have to
decide going into it in advance. You have to decide
that you may not find the pay off you're looking for,
and if you do, it's gonna make all the work
worth it. Matt, it's super interesting to me man that
you're a mind reader. I thought of Jeremy as well.
(30:11):
Oh yeah, I had that image in my mind, the
way the way Connor was describing the grid pattern, and
honestly what it didn't seem to be that organized in
Jeremy Corbell's released footage of that the naval radar. But
you guys have got a wrinkle for you. Just just
(30:32):
south and U tiny tiny bit west of Savannah, there's
another airport, but it's not really an airport, it's an
air field. It's the Hunter Army Airfield. And if you
go to Apple maps, Google Maps, a lot of places
you can't actually go in there. It's great out because
it's a military Uh, it's property of the military, so
(30:54):
you can't like look at everything there from a satellite
point of view, but it is is you know, I
think worth noting. If you happen to be looking in
that direction from Pooler, which is not that far away,
I imagine you could see something out in the distance. Um,
and if something was traveling from that airfield, I don't know,
(31:15):
I can totally imagine it being over Pooler at some point.
That's a really good point because if you look at
it driving distance, Pooler is pretty much right there. It's
twenty minutes away, right five. Is the crow flies? That's
they used to say, But I guess it depends if
they're if they're on like let's say Pine Barren Road
(31:38):
out there in Pooler or maybe South Rogers or the
Pooler Parkway. Yeah, they're like they're right there. Oh, I
thought you were going to tell me it depends on
something about the crow with the statement as the fly
to be like, well, you know, mating season, is that?
What's the what's the crow rules? Ben the very h
(31:59):
amorphous on sensical crow rules. We're talking about it yesterday.
Every time when someone dies and it's bad. A crew
comes and spirits there soul away, the land of the dead,
and sometimes sometimes it brings it back. It's like Highlander rules.
You know, it's very unclear as to exactly how it works.
(32:20):
Can I get a was that a been impression? That was? Then? No,
it was like a like a like a creepy voiceover
movie impression. So I been impression again? Fair enough? Just
it's just it's a peak behind the scenes. We were
at our uh we're at our local bar for a second,
(32:41):
and longtime listeners will make you'll know the terribly creative
name of our local bar. Uh. And we're talking about
you guys. You know, I have a crow, a corvid
in general fascination. We're talking about a friend of ours
who had just recently seen the crow for the first
time as an adult. And I just love how they
don't spend much time explaining why this crow situation breaks
(33:06):
down that way, but still the crow. Let us know
if you've seen it, if it holds up for you. Uh,
massive amounts of cocaine in that film. I was a kid,
and it was I saw it before I saw a scarface,
and I remember thinking simultaneously like did they get in
trouble for filming this, because I've never had a great
grasp by the separation of fact and fiction. And then
(33:27):
also thinking immediately after, am I going to get in
trouble for watching this? Is there like some threshold of
amounts of cocaine where seeing them also makes you involved
in the criminal act? That was the scariest part of
the crow for me. It's also a good tell as
to who's the bad guy. It's usually the guy with
the giant mountain of cocaine and the giant pinky nail
(33:48):
that he's using to scoop it and you know, snoot it. Yeah,
except it blow where he's Johnny Depp plays kind of
an anti hero, tragic figure. But Matt, yes, Swarms, You've
done some leg work here, man, I admire it. I
just sent you one extra thing. I sent it in
our chat right now. This is probably unrelated, but I'm
(34:11):
sending it to you anyway, so you guys can see
it in twenty nineteen, I think, let me see. I
love how how my voice went there. Um, I believe
it was twenty nineteen. Why can't thank you, good lord
appreciate it? I was looking in the actual YouTube text. Okay,
(34:32):
in twenty nineteen, there was a video taken of the
space X Starlink UH satellites, a swarm of them, if
you will. It's not really a swarm. It's more like
a very organized line of Starlink satellites. Um. So this
is seven years after, or around seven years after Connor
and his friends had his sighting. But you can watch
(34:56):
a video of these Starlink satellites and it is in
edible to see them because it does look like a um,
I don't know, I don't know how to describe it
other than a line of lights that seem to be connected,
almost like the video game Halo in a way, like
it seems to look like just a string of lights.
(35:17):
Really that's just somehow huge and flying way above you. Um.
And I would recommend watching this video just to get
an idea of how strange that would be if you
actually viewed it from the ground. Yeah, that's a great
call to man, because I think unless you unless you
already know what you're looking at or what to expect,
this looks extraordinary. It's exceedingly strange, and it's it's important
(35:40):
at this point, Connor for us to note that, uh,
none of us, none of us are telling you definitively
what you guys saw, If anything, I'm curious to hear
a follow up email or message to tell me more
about this old man. I love his vibe, I love
his whole thing. Want to hear more about him, And
(36:01):
I want to hear if he's whether he said anything,
because his one line is super interesting right from a
screenwriting perspective, even it's like somehow he knows he will
never see this again. I just feel like I feel
like he should be like Ala Scooby Doo, like I should.
His name should be like like old Man wins Low.
You know, maybe he runs a haunted amusement park. He's like,
(36:22):
I'm not gonna see that another thing like that in
this lifetime poof first name Carl, Old Carl Winslow. UFO
guy um No. But it's I I totally I love
this idea, Ben. But what if the old Man was
somehow connected to the sighting? What if they were What
if it was his fleet, you know, and he was
(36:43):
just observing us, observing it in a way to understand
the way humans think about advanced technology. What if it
was a threat. What if that was you'll never see
something like this again. What if that was more of him, uh,
not just being a fellow observer, but he's telling these
guys they slipped up and and uh maybe saw the
(37:03):
wrong thing. Oh that's a little more foreboding. Uh our
sinister interpretation of it. Um. It makes me think of
an excellent movie that I know we've talked about, but
if anyone missed that, I can't remember when we've discussed it,
but it's come up a time or two, called The
Vast of Night. Uh. That came out last year, I
want to say, and it was a very small, uh
(37:25):
indie film, absolutely beautifully made, and it's about a rural
kind of UFO sighting. But I think it takes place
in like the fifties and revolves around radio transmissions and
like different tones and things being broadcast. But I highly
recommend everyone checked that film out if you haven't already
seen it, that's right. And again, last call to anybody
else out there near Savannah, did you see anything in
(37:46):
two thousand twelve? Let us know we look forward to
hearing from you. We're gonna take a quick break and
we will be right back. Thanks again, Connor. Here are
some hats. Wow those ads you know, I gotta tell
you we took some time behind the scenes. We just
(38:09):
regroups listen to ads. So well done standing ovation tent, tent,
no notes, bills to they do they do pay the bills.
So thank you for stinking with us through the break.
We hope you enjoyed the break as much as we did.
Our final story for today follows up on a piece
(38:33):
that I believe was in strange news regarding the ongoing
crisis with sexual assault kits, which are conventionally known as
rape kits. This is the part of the segment that
we put a disclaimer slash trigger warning for at the top. However,
(38:54):
we believe this information is important. It's part of the
mission of this show too, to examine to understand corruption,
conspiracy crisises that don't make it to the national news
near as often as they should. And as you know,
fellow conspiracy realist, my colleagues and I endeavor to find
(39:15):
primary sources. We want the firsthand experience. We want to
hear from what are sometimes colloquially called the boots on
the ground, and this is where Steve b comes in. Steve,
a number of weeks ago, you wrote to us in
response to questions about the ongoing catastrophe with backlogs for
(39:40):
rape kits. So we're gonna share your letter, and then
we're going to dive in in a way that hopefully
gives all of us a better understanding of this credibly disturbing,
uh and profoundly serious situations. So here we go, Steve,
you say, hello, I'm a police officer in Minnesota for
a city with a over three hundred thousand people. We
(40:02):
take the rape kit serious and sexual assault serious. I
can tell you every sexual assault that we take, we
try to get the victim to go to the hospital
and complete the kit. We handle every kit processed. However,
Steve continues, I can tell you the main hospital in
our city has about a thousand kits that are unprocessed.
(40:24):
They have two refrigerators full of these kits. The kit
is only a small box, about three inches by two
inches by one inch. Here's the problem with the number
of rape kits that have gone unprocessed. A victim can
walk into a hospital and say they were raped but
don't want the police called. They still go through the
(40:46):
process of the kit, which is called a SAME KIT,
which stands for Sexual Assault Nurse Examination Kit and Steve says,
the hospital will not call the police for a victim.
The victim must do it on their our own. So
if a victim completes the kit, and implying that if
they do the kit and they don't make the call,
(41:06):
it sits in the same fridge until the victim wants
it released to the police. Steve says, I have spoken
to a sane nurse and she told me the oldest
one in that fridge was nine years old. Yeah, and
Steve continues, I cannot speak for other states, but that
is the issue adding to those unprocessed numbers for Minnesota.
(41:30):
And this is a question that we had asked your
call in our earlier times on air with this topic.
We we had asked first responders and law enforcement and
people who had experiential knowledge of this matter to help
us understand what's going on here. And one of the
(41:50):
points that the three of us brought up rightly so
I think, is that unfortunately, all too often members of
law enforcement may disregard or ignore somebody's claim assault for
any number of reasons. Uh. There's actually a site called
end the Backlog dot org. YEP. It's an organization called
(42:13):
The Joyful Heart foundation, and they have some interesting stats.
There are cases in which um, you know, so these
are these rape kits are entered into evidence or you know,
filed into these you know, evidence rooms, storage rooms, but
it can't but sometimes detectives or prosecutors don't actually request
the DNA to be analyzed, so they can be taken,
but they're not required to be analyzed. Um. So that's
(42:35):
one reason for the backlog UM and that is considered
untested or unsubmitted rape kits. Uh. There's another factor when
the backlog literally just comes from lack of personnel to
process them in a efficient and timely manner, which is
the second and probably most troubling part of the backlog. UM.
And this Joyful Heart Foundation um is you know, believes
(42:59):
that all rape it's should be tested, even if that
is not requested to be done by the prosecutor or detectives.
But again, uh, there are no federal laws that require
tracking and testing of these rape kits, so it's hard
to you know, know exactly how many are going untested,
but it is estimated that hundreds of thousands of untested
(43:19):
kits remain in these uh police storage facilities. Yeah, and
I'd like to I'd like to step back before we
continue with that, because one of the things that I
really want to hit here for to to clarify for
everybody who is in aware, you'll hear about these kits,
and you'll you'll hear these phrases thrown around quite a bit.
(43:40):
I like saying kits because hearing the hearing the R
word can be quite triggering for survivors of these sorts
of attacks. But when you hear that word thrown around,
what what does it mean? What does it describe? What
exactly is this kit? It's pretty basic stuff. And I
don't mean that as a criticism of any sort. In
(44:04):
these situations, it's better to have the most basic, most
reliable components. I think we can all agree. You get instructions,
bags and sheets for evidence collection, swabs for collecting fluids
from different parts of the body, uh, sterile urine collection containers,
sample containers, blood collecting devices, a comb to be used
(44:27):
for collecting evidence from a victim's hair, glass slides, self
sealing envelopes, nail picks, and then generic like white sheets
to catch I mean physical evidence that might have been
stripped from the body. Because unfortunately, these are not always
the victims aren't always alive, and these things are used
and the and then to go forward with that one
(44:51):
thing I love about and the backlog is yet as
as you said, that's one of the first things they
talk out is where this backlog comes from. There is
a third factor that end the backlog doesn't address right
on that main page that we're talking about, and it
(45:11):
is the cost of these kits, right the adjust for
the ingredients. The ingredients are relatively inexpensive, even in a
place like the US that absolutely gouges people on medical
devices and equipment. But this, uh, this process, we think
of each kit in terms of not just the physical materials,
(45:34):
but also the processing. Then I went to the g
b I, which is the state level Georgian version of
the Federal Bureau of Investigation, and according to them, it
cost about nine dollars per kit to Yeah, which is
more expensive than I thought it would be, you know. Um,
but again you know, having no reference for this, they
(45:57):
say that they have twenty one trained DNA analysts dedicated
to testing these kits. Uh. They have the problem like
if they are if all pistons are firing and the
wind is at their back, then they can process up
to two hundred and ninety four assault kits per month,
but typically they do between two hundred and two twenty
(46:19):
because things keep moving to the front of the line
for one reason or another, and this may this may
startle and disturb some of us to learn there are
things known as priority request. I am sure there are
valid and compelling reasons for that. But upon first hearing that,
that sounds a little well messed up, doesn't it? Like
it does? It does? I understand the cost though, I
(46:42):
mean because you know of the analysis, because they're not
they're analyzing multiple different UH sources. I mean, like you're
talking about nail picks that could be for um, scraping
DNA from underneath thing, announce from perhaps fighting back against
an assailant, and then you might end up with blood
or to SHO underneath the finger. Now, so that's one.
Then you obviously have the potential for semen UH and
(47:05):
also the potential for other fluids elsewhere on the body,
you know, And like you said, all of these different
things are each their own test, I imagine, so I
can kind of understand why it would be so costly,
but obviously absolutely necessary. So there must be some way
to subsidize it or you know how what's the solution.
I wonder what is really interesting because according to that
(47:26):
Fox article you're you're talking about it, it does seem
like at least of the governor, the current government of
Georgia is attempting to cut back so right there, they're
having to scale back quite a bit in the the lab,
the GBI labs. But it does feel like with Emery,
with Georgia Tech, with all of these you know, institutions, U,
(47:47):
g A, we could find a way in Georgia to
make this kind of testing streamlined and maybe done you know,
through a university system where they're younger people who want
to train to do this kind of testing. It's yeah,
and that's something Steve that you said that I really appreciate.
Like you, you have laid out, uh very solid argument
(48:12):
that at times law enforcements hands are tied, right because
there are there are any number of rules or policies
that are designed to protect victims of these attacks. Right,
if you do not want the police involved, if you
do not want um, you know, to risk your private
(48:33):
information or your identity being leaked to an often vicious
and exploitative press, then obviously that should that should be
the primary concern um into It sounds weird saying, but
maybe in defense of like the the prioritization of kits,
maybe they're trying to find a serial assaulter or they
(48:56):
have a lead or something, and that that puts it
to the front of line because they're try and enclose
the case. But still, this is the thing that stays
with me about this. Uh, everyone listening, The statistics are
pretty clear. Testing these kids getting through this backlog, maybe
not in every state, but somewhere in the US, would
(49:16):
expose and quite likely lead to the arrest of a
serial sexual assaulter or confirmed crimes that they were able
to escape justice for, you know what I mean, because
a lot of those a lot of those folks are
already imprisoned for something else. I would imagine that's serfs
they caught. So they would find repeat offenders and they
(49:37):
would match it to a single source that is already
on record. That's fascinating, man, I never thought about that,
But it's a It is a good point, and I
think a good argument for why even But it's all
about resources, right, Like I mean, police forces and and
and all these local you know, bureaus of investigation are
short staffed, and there's a lot more crimes often than
(49:58):
there are personnel. So it's a delicate balancing act. But
it seems very important because this is one of the
most egregious crimes you know out there, literally taking from
someone the most sacred and personal kind of experience. Right.
But at the same just as a counterpoint, there are
so many homicides every day. I mean, you cannot compare
(50:21):
one crime with another, necessarily, but the complete loss of
human life, it's a tough thing to argue with it.
It's me right, I don't know, it's a tough thing
to argue, but I would just say, in these crime labs,
when there is a homicide and DNA maybe needs to
be tested for that, I can imagine that taking priority.
And that's again that's an issue of limited resources there,
(50:45):
as you guys pointed out. And I also think it
is crucial that we define what backlog means. Those were
two What is a rape kit? What is a backlog?
Those are two of the things I absolutely wanted to
hit somewhere in this segment. The backlog is tough, Oh
show you this. There's a little bit of math involved.
But you can just do it in your head and
(51:06):
quickly see the problem without walking through all the sums
according in place I was coining earlier in the backlog,
every seventy three seconds someone is sexually assaulted in the
United States. That's a pretty solid statistic. A sexual assault
kit is officially considered backlogged if it has not been
submitted for DNA analysis, which usually detectives or prosecutors have
(51:31):
to specifically request. It's knoped in, not an opt out.
If that kit has been sitting around and hasn't gone
for analysis within ten days of the evidence being submitted,
it's considered backlogged. So these things aren't waiting around all
the time for nine years. But there is a lot
of stuff getting lost in the system. And unfortunately in
(51:53):
this society, uh, there there's a crime of this sort
every seventy three seconds. So the backlog builds very quickly,
and without more funding, more visibility, uh, probably some different policies,
it's going to be very difficult to address this problem.
And and of course you know there are members of
(52:14):
law enforcement, members of in geos, like in the backlog,
who are working around the clock to make this better,
to bring justice to these people. But those those numbers,
I think give us a very real sense of the problem.
If you are wondering, if you're in the US and
you're wondering what's happening in your state, Uh, then one
of the best things to do would be to check
(52:37):
out the interactive map that is on in the backlog,
where you can go state by state and see their
status of their policies, whether they've reformed things where your
home state is essentially in terms of resolving this. And
as I had said at that previous uh in our
previous Strange News, we know that these reforms can have measurable,
(53:01):
significant positive results. So it's very well worth it. Even
though it's an issue you know that many politicians would
later would would probably prefer not to talk about when
they're campaigning, right, because it makes people think of horrific things.
But Matt, you clocked something that I'm glad you mentioned
(53:22):
it because we had to mention it's some some level. Uh. Yes,
the current governor of our state of Georgia, when Brian
Kemp is asking for is asking for significant budget cuts,
especially the g b I and especially there's state Crime Lab.
Feels like there are other things you could cut from
(53:43):
a budget, you know what I mean, like governor salary. Yep.
I know, I know, not everybody, not everybody can do that,
but we've all heard the stories of like CEO is
refusing to accept event for something. But and look, I'm
not a fan of Brian kemp um um he, in
(54:04):
my opinion, is not the best dude. Uh, and recently
signed this heartbeat bill into law that fundamentally deprives women
of the ability to get an abortion beyond a very
very limited window of time. And it's all kind of
based around these evangelical ideals about like a heartbeat and
the soul. And I know these are all very loaded issues,
(54:24):
but to me, this this, this, this feels like something
someone like that would also be like who cares? You know,
like we're not letting women take control over their bodies
and we're also not helping them out when they've been
sexually assaulted. So yeah, and there could be there could
be an aspect there where the reporters are spinning a
(54:49):
perspective of their own. You know. Uh, there's no there's
no proof that the governor of Georgia or really any
state level federal level official is sitting around like steepling
their fingers Monty Burns style and saying is let's cut
the budget in the way it huch people the most
(55:10):
like that doesn't happen. They're thinking of spreadsheets and numbers,
and it's incredibly dehumanized, right because the US really only
tends to do something about important issues if there is
a face that can be put on it for the
evening news. When you hear statistics like this evil, evil
(55:34):
thing happens to people every seventy three seconds. What you're
hearing is the idea of a crime and every seventy
three seconds. But if every seventy three seconds you gotta
text with the name of the person this was happening to,
I guarantee you the enormity of this miscarriage of justice
(55:54):
would hit completely differently. I mean, when you agree like,
I don't know, maybe I'm being too optimistic because I'm
thinking of amber alerts. I certainly that's tough. Man. That's
a really interesting counterpoint. I do feel like associated. I mean,
I would take it a step further and say, you know,
you often see with people in power that they don't
(56:15):
really care about an issue until it happens to someone
they love. And then they make it a pet, pet
cause or a pet project of their's, but otherwise tend
to not be particularly uh empathetic to others because of
that faceless spreadsheety kind of quality of the whole thing
for for my money, on the end the backlog dot
(56:36):
org site, it's kind of hard to it might be
difficult to get to, but they've got an article or
a page here that says test kits stop serial rapists.
And if you go down here you can see three
individual people. They're just examples of people who have been
linked to violent crimes and sexual assaults through these kits,
(56:59):
and it just shows you, like, what could happen if you,
you know, if we were able to get rid of
this this issue that we're discussing here, how many people
we could get off the street, at least hopefully in
the best in the worst case scenario, you could nab
a bunch of people who are doing terrible things. Yeah,
(57:21):
and again, to further emphasize and highlight this point, there
are people getting away. There are people have done this.
They are walking free. Statistically speaking, I should say, statistically speaking,
is very likely that is the case, and it is
a problem that is going to require multiple institutions and
(57:45):
authorities and agencies working together. And I think it's a
problem that is both solvable and worth solving. UH, it's
also one that is UH not going to improve anytime
soon and us unless they're serious action taken. So thank
you to end the backlog. Thank you to everybody who
(58:06):
works in the fields of medical, physical, and mental health UH,
and thank you especially to Steve, because I think a
lot of people, perhaps us included on the show today UH,
did not realize that there were there were hard ways
for any number of stakeholders to prevent UH an investigation
(58:27):
or prevent the processing of these And with that in mind,
we would like to hear your experiences with this process,
your ideas of these attempted solutions, and we'd also like
to hear about the things you've seen in the sky.
As Matt said, if you are from the Pool or
Savannah metro area, we'd also like to say it because
(58:49):
I don't want this to be a total downer ending. UM,
what's the weirdest cheese you ever tried? There's Kazu mirzu,
which I haven't tried yet because it's only made in
Sardinia and it's illegal like seriously illegal to have some
of it, which don't understand, But mafioso, if you're out there,
hit me up. There's also some cheeses I believe that
(59:11):
like contain live maggots. That's the one boom. Why is it?
Why is it illegal? Does it make you like trip balls? No?
I think it's just violating several very well established healthcoat standards.
Have you guys heard of the concept of high meat?
High meat? Is this like trend where people literally leave
(59:35):
meat out to rot, uh and become infested with maggots
and turn green and like you know, moldy and fungacy,
and they eat it and it claims to get them
high high meat. It's a long road to go down.
It really is to each their own. But good lord,
what have we become? I just didn't read it in
(59:58):
the Anarchists cookbook, so I'm gonna be honest. I probably
would have tried it if I if I had read
about it, I may have accidentally tried it. But if
that was the situation, I wasn't looking to get high,
and it wasn't like monitoring whether I felt good about
whatever horrible misadventure I was in. Speaking of that by
the way, guys, I went through my I was in
(01:00:19):
the office again. I went through my office desk, and
right on the top of it, on in one of
these locked or drawers, there was a how to Diffuse
a bomb how to Diffuse a bomb like manual. I
don't know why I have it. I don't know what
it's doing in my desk, but it's there. I mean,
it's better to have it and not need it than
(01:00:39):
to need it and not have it. You know, if
it's got to be at the office or a place
where other people might be going through your stuff, it's
better to have the book about diffusing bombs. Yes, you're right.
Oh well, don't go through my stuff. I already found it.
So so that's our show for to a thank you,
(01:01:00):
as always to everyone who took the time to write
to us, to email us, to call us. If you
want to take a page from your fellow conspiracy realist book,
we would love to hear from you your personal experience
with the stories we explore today. We'd also love to
hear suggestions for upcoming topics you think your fellow listeners
(01:01:21):
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(01:01:43):
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(01:02:04):
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Been I'm legally deciding that we have to do. Yes,
give give us permission or do not give us permission,
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can use this right. Yeah, we were. It's the it's
(01:02:26):
the old opt in, opt out game or game of framing,
and we I think we talked about this in previous episode.
But my favorite example is when a couple of different
countries or communities changed their organ donation option on a
license from opt in to opt out, and so many
(01:02:48):
people just don't bother to opt out, so they were
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You know. He's right, Uh, as I sit here and
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Matt Frederick
Ben Bowlin
Noel Brown
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United States of Kennedy
United States of Kennedy is a podcast about our cultural fascination with the Kennedy dynasty. Every week, hosts Lyra Smith and George Civeris go into one aspect of the Kennedy story.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.