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January 12, 2016 48 mins

On January 2nd, 2016, Ammon Bundy and a group of like-minded individuals occupied the Malheur Wildlife Refuge as a protest against what they saw as federal over-reach and unjust sentencing practices. So what's the real story?

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Episode Transcript

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Speaker 1 (00:01):
From UFOs to psychic powers. Since government conspiracies, history is
riddled with unexplained events, you can turn back now or
learn the stuff they don't want you to know. Hello,
welcome back to the show. My name is Matt, my

(00:22):
name is Noel, and today I am Ben. Most importantly,
you are you, which makes this stuff they don't want
you to know? Uh? This is uh, this is an
interesting episode, ladies and gentlemen, because we we are touching
on something topical, We're touching on something controversial, and because
we are doing something topical, uh, something specific, we thought

(00:45):
it best to arrive at the universal via the specific.
And one thing we would like to start out with
is a question for yourself and for the three of us. Uh,
you guys know. Matt and military service, any military members
of your family? Not really anything to speak of here.

(01:05):
My grandfather could not go to war when he was
a younger man because he had a heart condition. My
father ended up not having he I think he was
officially drafted, but he apparently didn't have to do it
as well because of things like that. I spent a
lot of time in a military base when I was younger.
My father was the choir director on a base in Germany,

(01:29):
where I was born. So that's about the extent of
it though. Yeah, and I have military in my family,
as you guys know. Uh, And we are in an
office in Atlanta still these days, but we used to
be in a very different office, and we used to
meet all sorts of interesting characters. Is that correct. Yes,

(01:51):
several people that we would meet around the cafeteria area
and the gathering areas in the space. And there was
one particular person that I don't want to name who
this person is, but uh, Gregory was. He was in
something that I would say is similar to the oath Keepers,

(02:12):
a group of ex military human beings who are like
minded and view uh, certain social situations that are occurring
to perhaps, I don't know, the patriot movement, that's what
it's the patriot movement. But this particular gentleman was worried
about collapse of society, and uh he conveyed to me

(02:34):
that his group is ready in case anything happens. They're
a group of him, of the of people like him
that are ready to defend the United States, and it's
people I encountered him once as well, and um, the
advice he gave to me was sell everything you have
and get a Humby. So that's you know, that's where.
But what about the gas Gregory, I would ask, Yes,

(02:57):
survivalist preppers, people who believe that the collapse of Western
civilization is somehow imminent. People who believe that the most
logical course of action now is to, as the Boy
Scouts say, be prepared right. Yes, and people in this
group have the background to know what to do in

(03:20):
those kind of situations, like exactly how to ration things
and gather the correct uh you know, needs for food
and water and all those kind of things, and be
able to defend themselves and also build the infrastructure and
needed to house said stockpiled sure, weapons, food, you know,
water and protective Sure. So this is in the US.

(03:46):
This is something that is often called would would you
say that Gregory was a member of a militia or
would you say that he was simply a survivalist in
like minded company. I can't say for sure because I
don't know how you know, how much they actually met
or meet up and how much they prepare together. I

(04:07):
would say if he wasn't a militia, would need to
be a fairly organized thing. Yeah, that's the answer question
that I have. I mean, the term militia seems pretty
open ended, and you did and kind of bandied about
um in several different contexts. I mean, I guess I
think of a militia as being some group that's very
organized and tied to a certain area. What would you um,

(04:28):
what's what? What would you say that the official definition
of militia has been uh, well no. The interesting thing
about that question is that there are a couple of
different terms for militia. If you go back to the etymology,
it means military force raised from the civil population to
supplement a regular army. So there is a difference between

(04:51):
a military and a militia in that people can be
career military members. Yes, you can be a juror uh
almost a journalist. That's true in the U. S. Army,
you can be a journalist. You could be an admiral
right in the Navy and it will be your career.
You could start as a private worker way up to general.

(05:13):
And militia member in on the other hand, would be
someone who, let's say, what what what's a regular day
to day job? Accountant and accounted perfect a c P. A.
C P A gets the call c p A s
H receives word that uh, the red coats are coming,

(05:34):
et cetera, and then the c p A doffs his
green visor, throws away the pen and the number two
pencil opens. The lock box behind the painting where he
takes out is a R fifteen and uh and drops
his flak jacket on, slaps a flag or something across it,

(05:54):
and then off to war. The first mentioned of a
militia in the US Constitution occurs an Article two of
the Bill of Rights. An Article two, there is an
unquote well regulated militia being necessary to the security of
a free state. The right of the people to keep

(06:17):
and bear arms shall not be infringed in the modern age.
That is one of the most controversial aspects of the
US legal system. Right the ownership of guns. Oh sure,
especially now where where the perception is that homicide rates
are skyrocketing and people are dying everywhere. And there's also

(06:40):
a perception that the more guns that exist there, that
exist anywhere in a community from one side, equals safer
communities right when you But the reality, unfortunately at least
that I was listening to MPR this week and they're
speaking with some police officers, and they're talking about in
Texas the new open carry laws, and they're super worried.

(07:05):
Law enforcement there is extremely worried because the more saturated
any community is with weapons, the more homicides occur. There's
also the stories that the stories that come out about
these open carry places usually involve somebody shooting themselves in
the foot or there was a story that I remember
where a woman was shoplifting something from a home depot

(07:26):
and running out in the parking lot and somebody shot
him in the parking lot, you know, something for like
trying to steal some palettes of wood, you know what
I mean? Like, is that the kind of vigil anti
justice we need? You know what I mean? Come on,
you know anyway, It's just it's insane. The world out
there is insane. And the interesting thing to me is
this is not a problem you see as much in

(07:46):
places where there are a fewer guns are where guns
are more difficult to obtain. Also, there is a slight there.
There there's a slight disconnect in and I know this
is a side note, guy, so I keep it brief,
but there is a slight disconnect with the notion of
gun ownership automatically equating to insane levels of violence, which

(08:09):
which there are insane levels of violence. Right. What's interesting
is that there are other countries which have similar ratios
of gun ownership, yet these countries do not exhibit the
same level of violence associated with ownership of firearms. However,

(08:30):
another thing that that is vitally important. You know, if
you go back far enough in history, every every great
institution has blood on its hands. And I know that
can be controversial to people to say that about people's
favorite things, right, the country, the state, the church, whatever

(08:50):
it might be, you know, the banks, if you get
far enough back, right, right, I think it's important here
to say the we've talked about this many times before
when we talked about gun control laws and a couple
other topics that touched on this subject, that the right
to own a gun is very so deep seated in

(09:12):
the American people, and that the history of that and
the need to have a way to protect your family
and yourself. Um. I can't, I can't, um, I can't
discount that even no matter what my views are, no
matter how crazy liberal I was once was and you
know still slightly am uh, I cannot discount that fact

(09:37):
that I think is extremely important still today. Even I
agree completely, But it just almost seems like the language
and the constitution, the way people internalize that and make
it part of their cultural identity, that is unique to
the United States. I think because of that language, because
it's such an ingrained part of our identity, and I
think people take that really seriously, and some people maybe

(09:59):
take it a little too seriously. Well, I will point
out in this conversation, and I think I think you
guys are making great points. Um will point out that
the thing that later became the US, the United States
of America, and YouTube listeners who love the way we

(10:19):
say United States here please hear me hit the t
United States of America. It's funny. I think they've they've
they've flip flopped. Now now now they're like, why are
you enunciating that so much? I think it's just I
think there's we paid too much attention to the comments
and fed the fire. Anyway, the point being what now.

(10:41):
The progenitors of what would later become this country started
out as an invasive force, right, Yeah, Literally, the most
disease riddled, violent people that actual residents of the Cotton
that had ever met and the and these uh, these

(11:05):
people who came across you know, the Pinta, the Nina,
the Santa Maria and all that, all that jazz. Uh.
These these people were vastly outnumbered in many ways. Right.
It is a myth to say that the land was
unpopulated and wild and had like five other people just

(11:29):
hanging out, and we we know history proofs that is untrue.
These these groups, especially the groups that came from England,
were not very well funded in a lot of ways. Right.
There was not a British military force, meaning that these
people who were not soldiers by any stretch of the word,

(11:51):
were required to practice self defense or you know, if
we're being realistic, acts of aggression against native people's. Yes,
and also to that same respect, forced to learn how
to protect their their area. And they're there people. Yeah.
And what's interesting is that this militia control at the time,
these these people like let's say, Matt Noel, Uh, this office,

(12:17):
this office great perfect, We don't have to name everything.
Let's let's say this office, uh is a town in
a very isolated area of colonial um what will become America.
Right before Americo, Vespucci, I think his name was right,

(12:37):
And didn't he write pretty much softcore pornography about the heat.
I'm pretty sure he did. It's true. Anyway, they'll call
it America later. And so they're living in the colonies,
uh this this office of ours, and have no connection
with the greater colonial power. So they are required to

(13:00):
fend for themselves, which means that every able bodied person
must be capable of grabbing firearm right of some sort,
or a weapons get a musket. Yes, And from this
concept of localized military response or self defense response arrives

(13:24):
what we call a militia. And nowadays you know that
that's a tricky word. It's one of the words that
has an evolving meaning. Is that correct? Yeah? I mean,
And it's interesting because the way you just described makes
perfect sense. There was a need for these groups. They
filled a very functional purpose in protecting um, certain areas, etcetera.

(13:46):
And they kind of bolstered the actual military force and
it was sort of a supplement to it. And the
way the word has sort of evolved today it kind
of had to me maybe I'm wrong in this. I'm
correct me if I am, but has sort of a
negative connotation. It sort of feels like, you know, people,
um just heavily arming themselves just in case the government,

(14:07):
you know, comes after them. So I think that negative connotation,
at least for me, And I can't say exactly when
originated because I don't think I'm old enough to to
know exactly how early on that was. But in my world,
it was reading and hearing about Waco and and Ruby Ridge.
That's that's where the negative connotation of a what people

(14:28):
in the news were calling militia. That's where that came
from from me. Oh, you know, that makes sense that
I was. You know, we're about the same age, and
that's definitely where I started hearing the term, and that
is the connotation that I have as well. And when
they were there were a couple of congressional hearings where
there were militia leaders who were being interviewed. I remember
watching a lot of that, and I'm a several hundred

(14:49):
years old, so during the first only several hundred Uh man,
don't embarrass me. Uh no. The you know, this is
a great point because listeners, you have been familiar with
the militia. We have a lot of people who are
tuning in right now from a place that is not

(15:11):
the US, and trust us, guys. We are acutely aware
of how strange this sort of thing can seem right
to to someone who doesn't live here, and it's weird
to us because get this, ladies and gentlemen. Nowhere in
the Constitution is the term militia actually defined. It is used,

(15:38):
but it is not defined, So it's you know, it's
it's a tricky thing, and it's kind of legalistic. But
we ask ourselves what they're talking about. Would our opinion
of a militia today jibe with the framers of the
Constitution's opinion of what a militia is, And the fact

(16:00):
that it's mentioned in the same sentence as the right
to bear arms is definitely a big deal for some
of these groups today, you know. And like I said,
it's all about this entitlement that we can have as
many guns as we want because we need to be
able to defend ourselves. And then this word militia comes
into the picture, where it becomes like a matter of
organizing and having groups of these like minded individuals and uh,

(16:25):
not necessarily as much of a purpose overtly that we
can see, but you know, folks in these groups might
argue differently, Oh, yeah, and real quick, I just want
to see. My favorite joke of the entire Constitution is
the idea that it was the right to bear arms,

(16:45):
not not to carry weapons, but the right to the
limbs of bears sign creatures. Yeah, I I still I
thought it was so clever in fourth grade Civics and
I still think it. Um. I still just hope it's true. Okay,
you gotta tell me, is in in your mind and

(17:06):
in this joke, is it the right to carry around
bare arms, to have like physically you have bear arms.
You would have to talk to the framers that it's
very right. Yeah, and not. Uh, you know, I I
believe that. I believe that the Constitution, like the word

(17:27):
of God, came down unassailable. I'm kidding. I'm kidding. Well,
we have the whole Bill of rights, So should we
bring it up to the present day. Yeah, hey, Matt,
what's up with the National Guard or the what what
are those? Okay, Yes, listen, this is something that at
least you may hear different things on the old internet there,
and we just want to at least organize some of

(17:49):
these terms in your mind. So when you hear militia
organize or we're we're gonna organize. I'm sorry, I'm sorry,
Please keep it in Okay, okay. So a lot of
times when you're hearing the word militia, you're gonna you're
you may hear it conflated with things like the National

(18:10):
Guard or the state defense forces that exist, these other
supplemental military are parts of the military, like um National Reserve,
National Guard. They're all these different things, and these are
all separate institutions that do different things and are not
necessarily a militia at least by definition, right the framers

(18:32):
would have considered them a standing army. Yes, And with
this in mind, what we're going to talk about just
real quick, We're going to talk about some statistics, and
i'd like to while we look at these, i'd like
to make sure that that everyone listening that you guys

(18:53):
understand what we are delving into today is called terrorism
by some, it's called patriotism by others, and it's called
a militia by the media. And we understand that this
is a remarkably sensitive topic to a lot of people.

(19:15):
So the FBI considers legally considers this domestic extremism a
k a. Terrorism, And what we know is that according
to the FBI and the Southern Poverty Law Center, this
stuff is on the rise. So the Southern Poverty Law

(19:35):
Center has some numbers from two thousand thirteen and a
little bit earlier. There was an explosive growth in militia's
that lines up or correlates with the election of Barack Obama. Yes,
you can see the numbers were kind of dwindling in

(19:57):
the late nineties and into the early odds. In two
thousand and eight, there were around two hundred of these
patriot and militia groups, at least tracked by the Southern
Poverty Law Center. Then in two thousand nine, just one
year later, uh, there are upwards of six hundred and
fifty groups that are official and now you know, maybe

(20:20):
they're just announced that. Yeah, sure, reaching an all time
high of over hundred in two thousand and twelve. I
don't want to paint with two broad of brush here,
but it does seem to me that a lot most
of these groups are, you know, going to be more
on the conservative Republican side. Is that correct? It is

(20:44):
correct in a and this is not necessarily too broad
of a brush. It is correct from what the demographics
im pure to show. I guess my my thinking perhaps
is the folks on that side. You know, you there
is a lot of rhetoric about liberals wanting to take

(21:04):
everyone's guns away over overreach of federal protects. So I would,
I would, you know, but one of the functions of
these groups is to protect not only you know, themselves
quote unquote protect, but also protect their rights to have
all these weapons. Well, we've also we've talked about this too.
This is a country of low information voters. I if

(21:28):
you are listening to this podcast and you're a US citizen,
then I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news
regarding your fellows. Citizens. It doesn't matter what side of
the false political divide you find yourself upon, you know,
I personally, I will be honest here. This is just

(21:49):
my opinion. The false dichotomy between a left and or
right is very much like a rigged game of three
card Monty. To me, the house always wins, doesn't it
If you look back at history. A lot of that
conversation continues today in the Supreme Court, in bars and

(22:10):
cafes across the country, in the halls of Congress, both
your state Congress and the federal Congress, and what we
see now emerging are people who believe, for one reason
or another, again, regardless of what side of the political
divide they may find themselves on the what we're finding

(22:31):
are people who believe that the federal government is taking
legal rights that it does not possess right that it
that things that should be up to the state of
Georgia or the state of Delaware, the state of I
don't what's your favorite state, or the state of Oh

(22:52):
well done, Matt. The state of Oregon are being taken
by Uncle Sam, taken by the fat cats and bureaucrats
and d C using taxpayer supported military might to enforce something.
It also appears that they may bee uh kind of

(23:14):
tightening the belt a little bit and trying to make
an example of at least a few people. Ah Yes,
speaking of fantastic segues, Matt. Uh, it's time for a
word from my sponsored and we're back. So let's talk

(23:40):
about specifically what happened what you have probably heard about
already if you listen to this show. On January second,
two thousand sixteen, uh, somewhere between twenty people occupied a
place called the mau Howard Mau here mau Here Wildlife
Refuge in Oregon. Uh, this is this is in the

(24:02):
middle of nowhere, ladies and gentlemen, I mean sure, everywhere somewhere.
Not to be rude about it, but it is closer
to Idaho than it is to Portland. It's three five
miles outside of Portland's the nearest town is thirty miles away.
And as we are recording this, the protesters, the patriots,

(24:24):
the terrorists with I feel like we must use all
three phrases because they've been called all three things. This group,
calling itself the Citizens for Constitutional Freedom, led by a
man named Emman Bundy, remains ensconced in this federal facility
in what so far is a non violent standoff with

(24:48):
state and federal authorities. Yeah, it's strange. At this point,
it doesn't even feel like a standoff at all. It
feels like they're making demands of somebody who isn't even there.
Does that make sense, It doesn't. It feels like they're
not really listening, you know. And in these demands at
this point, it sounds like they're like, could you please
send us some snacks? You know? Well, and I don't
mean that in a derogatory manner. I'm sorry, Bennet, didn't

(25:08):
mean interrupt. It just seems like every every piece of
news footage I've seen, it's just like they're on this
small piece of property and they're the only ones there
is what it seems like, Yet there's a there. There
are a couple of interesting analogies I want to make. First,
let's walk through the timeline, because this story started in

(25:30):
two sixteen, at least in terms of national attention, but
it dates back earlier. Right, it dates back to someone
say two thousand one, someone saying nine, some others I
don't doubt would say seventeen seventies six. But let's go
back to two thousand and one, and we will give

(25:51):
you the background, and we promise it's going somewhere. In
two thousand one, a father's son duo named Dwight and
Stephen Hammond, Dwight being the dad's to even being the sun,
apparently started setting fires on federal land near their own
private property at a ranch. The first one and two

(26:11):
thousand one was apparently meant to cover up evidence of poaching,
and that fire burned a hundred and thirty nine acres.
Fast forward to two thousand and six, when a fire
is set again on federal land as a protective measure.
And this makes sense to someone who has experienced with wildfire.

(26:34):
This was in the winter, and they were attempting to
They were attempting to protect their ranch and the winter
feed of their ranch that their livestock with graze upon
because lightning on federal land set off a series of wildfires. Yeah,
so you set a smaller fire ahead of where the

(26:54):
fire may travel and then the fire won't burn over
that because it cannot, right, because there's nothing to eat,
there's a there's nothing to befriend. I don't I don't
know how you guys, Well, that's that's how I feel.
When I'm building a fire. You start with tender to kindling,
two logs, and it's like a social network. Fire makes friends.

(27:18):
I know that sounds all the same, but that's that's
how I think. So, and I promised that I am
not starting any wildfires. So these guys go to go
to court for it. The government is seeking one million
in damages. And they clearly did this, or at the
very least multiple witnesses are clearly persuaded they did this.

(27:43):
That's not in contention. They are convicted of the crimes Dwight.
The father receives three months in prison, the son receives
concurrent one year sentences. They go in and they serve
their time. But here's the thing we talked about this
in the video. This is where the story might start
in n instead, because, uh the laws of the land

(28:09):
change and something called the Anti Terrorism and Effective Death
Penalty Act is past Anti Terrorism an Effective Death Penalty.
It's a it's a weird title. Despite the name. The
law doesn't just deal with terrorism. It also has a
five year mandatory minimum sentence for arson of US property

(28:30):
federal land. You gotta love those mandatory minimums drugs with arson.
But didn't the judge view that is being too harsh. Yeah, absolutely,
Dwight Hammond is seventy three years old or so. Uh
So the judges looking at the crime and question, although
the government is prosecuting for a million dollars, it looks

(28:50):
like there's actually less than a thousand dollars in damage.
One other thing, uh that there were three firefighters who
were put in danger by this. They they saw the blaze,
but again they're fine and the damage seems very minimum.
So the judge says, you guys, this is crazy for
that for that amount of damage or for the crime,

(29:15):
five years is a heck of a lot. So I'm
only gonna give you three months, Dwight, and you, Stephen
Concurrent one year sentences. Dwight the Elder. Dwight the Elder.
That's a cool name. And then a very strange, very
very rare thing happens. The federal government steps in and
appeals the sentence and they say, no, we're gonna we're

(29:39):
gonna need you to enforce these mandatory minimums because this
is a serious situation, and go ahead and do that now, right,
So the Feds appeel the ruling and they win. This
is the impetus for em and Bundy to lead his group,

(29:59):
this Citizens for Constitutional Freedom, into this refuge, this federal facility,
to occupy m and Bundy, interestingly enough, as the son
of a fellow named Clive and Bundy. That sounds familiar. Yeah,
you you remember him, that the rancher from Nevada or Nevada,
who is famous for another standoff with the fetes. Yeah,

(30:22):
that one was he was allowing his cattle to graze
on federal land and they wanted him to pay great finds,
and it was like like, uh, several years, it dated
way way back right, and and he was just like Nope,
not gonna pay it now. M And Bundy, according to

(30:43):
the publication Oregon Live, believes that he was divinely inspired
that God wants him to occupy this to defend the
Hammonds and to protest federal overreach or ownership of land.
This is where we enter into things very close to
sovereign state movements. If you if you ever passed through Georgia.

(31:05):
First off, we hope you come to Atlanta and feel
free to say hi to us. Secondly, we want to
let you know that you may notice some odd license
plates or some signs that say this is sovereign land.
There is an organization in this state, as in many
other states, that calls itself the Sovereign State of Georgia.
And the names may change, but the idea is the

(31:27):
same that the federal government should not exist and that
the highest authority should be the county sheriff. Yes, or
at least we don't. This individual does not recognize the
federal government's right to exist here, right, So Bundy believes
that this is um. This occupation is a protest against

(31:52):
again big brother federal overach right, Uh, some fat cats
in Washington intervening where they should not in local affairs.
And also, of course taxation remains a huge problem, and
these ideas, these statements have evolved. Originally they said they
were ready to settle in there for years, asking other

(32:15):
like minded members of survivalist groups, of militia's constitutionalists some
might call themselves, and said to these people, come join us,
and if your leaders tell you not to join us,
make your own independent decision. We have the support of
the local population. We are fighting for the people. We

(32:39):
are protesting for the people. However, interesting thing on January fourth, sixteen,
Dwight and Stephen Hammond, which you remember from earlier in
the story, they reported to Terminal Island in California to
serve the remaining four years of their prison sentences, and

(33:01):
via their lawyer, they're like, um, we have nothing to
do with this movement that is occurring in Oregon. For
sure distance themselves m and Bundy, they said, does not
speak for them currently as we record this. You know,
this is weird because as we're recording it, I'm I'm

(33:23):
hoping that everything ends peacefully. Some of those protesters or
occupiers or patriots or terrorists or whatever you want to
call them again, are armed. And you know, we we
we've talked about this before this UM. We've talked about
this in Waco, Texas, right, And how in the video

(33:46):
we talked about how well you know, listeners, some of
you are old enough to remember the events of Waco, Texas, right.
The FBI and the federal government certainly remember what a calamity,
what a disaster became. I would just like to say
it was a massively complicated issue. We have done an

(34:07):
audio episode on Waco. No, we've just done a video
on Waco. Well, maybe we'll have to bring that back.
It's it's a very complicated issue where you have God
and and belief mixing in with weapons and children and
families and all these things, and then also the federal
government trying to stamp down on things that they view

(34:30):
as illegal. And one could argue that the folks and
Oregon their belief in their right to do what they're
doing to protect their protecting is as strong and compelling
to them as some sort of religious belief. You know.
That's that's an interesting idea because it is ideology a
base isn't it. One of the things that you are

(34:51):
probably waiting for us to address regarding this situation will
be the existence or on existence of some sort of
double standard. And this surprised me when I read about this,
because both the supporters and the opponents of those folks
at the Wildlife Refuge believe there are double standards at play. Right.

(35:18):
You will see this in whatever flavor of social media
you enjoy, where someone will point out that this is
a country where children are shot, you know, for one
reason or another. Of what people will ask if these protesters,

(35:39):
these patriots, these terrorists were of a different skin color,
what would happen? Right? And some people is strange because
some people are saying everyone would be behind them if
they weren't white people, And some people are saying everyone
they would be raised to the ground and then and
the refuge would burn if if they weren't that demographic.

(36:05):
What's happening here? And I don't mean to be too conspiratorial, though,
I guess that is part of the reason you're listening today,
ladies and gentlemen. Whenever a story garners national attention like this,
I always wonder what the other stories are, you know,
what I mean, what's the news that's gonna what's the
news that's gonna go live at four this Friday? Oh

(36:29):
the Friday Surprise, buddy. Yeah, yeah, the Friday News sneaking
it in well, speaking to that double standard. UM, I
just found a story a little while agoats into this
is a new development. A guy named Jerry delimis m
who is an official in the Donald Trump presidential bid. UM.
He is actually connected in some way to the folks

(36:51):
doing this, uh, this occupation and burns and is visiting
with them now, um in an effort to, as he
puts it, get them and others home safely. And the
crux of this article is that he apparently warned some
of these militia members and their supporters to UM pay

(37:11):
attention to any misinformation the government is disseminating, essentially implying
there operating some sort of you know, psy ops campaign
against uh, these these occupiers. I wouldn't be surprised. I
wouldn't be surprised at all. That is a tremendously underestimated
and effective method, both in the court of public opinion

(37:34):
as well as you know, as well as for people
who were at a standoff or under siege. Marine Peltier,
a Washington Army National Guard staff sergeant, was speaking with
an outfit called The Oregonian, and she said it wasn't
really an armed group. She said, somewhere armed and others arn't.

(37:55):
I have a quote from her. There is absolutely no
armed standoff roads were we are going to and coming from.
They want us to know they are simply occupying land
and a building owned by air quotes We the people
our tax dollars, and that for them is a civil,
peaceful protest. So so these are occupied protesters. These are

(38:18):
occupied protesters. Nail on the head mat because you know,
you can see the logic here, right, Everyone who lives
in this country below a certain income or wealth level
pays taxes because they can't afford to not right, they
can't afford a tax haven. I mean, that's just the

(38:40):
honest truth. And if you're listening and you you do
have some shell accounts, bully for you. Great, right, But
the point being that most most people pay these federal
taxes with with um little very little control over how
the spec in ding is actually allocated. Right, Oh yes, yeah,

(39:05):
it's not taxation without representation, it's taxation without allocation these
days and somewhat representation and somewhat representation shout out to
d C, right, And I mean not to Congress, but
I mean to the people who live in d C
and have no representation. Yeah. I still can't believe that
that was something I had no idea. I was completely unaware.

(39:27):
I don't mean to throw back there, but yeah, if
you live in Washington, d C. There's nobody in the government.
Well there's, uh, I guess the president in a way,
but not really. Yeah, but you know, you can meet
senators at the at the five guys or something, right
and talk to them directly. That's something anyway, The point being,

(39:47):
we can follow this logic. People. Most people pay some
sort of tax, right, and those taxes are allocated to
differing things. And one of the things they were allocated
to was the construction and maintenance of this wildlife refuge
facility there in Oregon. And what what the logic of

(40:11):
this group is is that, well, we the people, the taxpayers,
paid for this. We built this, so it belongs to us,
and we can occupy it as we will. That's that's
the logic. So this is nodwin for us, guys, because
this is a story that is developing. It isn't done,

(40:34):
you know, and and listeners, I want to put out
this disclaimer. We do not know despite our earlier episode
on Prophecy, we do not know what will happen between
the time we are recording this, the time you're hearing it,

(40:55):
and the time people we the people whomever that might
be are allowed back into that facility or allowed out
of it without being arrested. So with these developments of minds,
we would like to hear from you. We want to
know if you are a survivalist, if you are a

(41:18):
member of a militia, if you feel safe talking about it,
and it is not illegal to be a member of
a militia, No it is not. You're not breaking the
law just by being a member of that club, right.
I would like to say I reached out to the
Georgia State Militia, at least on the official website for

(41:38):
the Georgia State Militia, and I wrote an email to
the pr email there, and I did twice, and I
was just trying to reach out and see if anyone
would talk with us, and I didn't hear back. So
if you are still out there and you can hear
this someone in the Georgia State militia. I would like
to hear from Yeah, you know what that would I
would love to get that of you. If you think also,

(42:01):
if you think this is just absolutely crazy talk, then
we'd like to hear from you as well. We want
to hear both sides of this, and we we also
want to know what you think is going to occur.
Is this the beginning of something much larger? Is it

(42:24):
an isolated incident of spoiler alert, it's not. Listeners, you
might be surprised by how many other times throughout this
country's history federal buildings have been occupied right or have
been attacked, sieged, destroyed. It's not just embassies in some

(42:47):
foreign country. It happens here. And another thing I want
to I just I want to go back to before
we leave, is if you live in the US or
just live in a time where this country is around,
you are living in the midst of a grand experiment,
a gigantic, gigantic place. Uh And in terms of reach,

(43:13):
it's it's a global thing. It's a superpower. It's a
grand experiment in that we being the human species, hasn't
really done something like this before. We've done similar things,
right British Empire, like the idea of how America functions

(43:37):
the empire. Yes, we do know one thing though there
is not an empire that has survived. Is humanity capable cognitively, socially,
fiscally and physically of sustaining It's a grand thing. Or

(43:59):
you know, we talk about un laps number and stuff
right or down laps number, the concept that our brains
are hard, hardwired to only acknowledge a certain number of
other people as peers are real people, right, And I
hope you listen to the episode Everybody, So I won't
tell you the number now, but I will tell you
it is far, far less than a million. Speaking of

(44:22):
ben and and bringing in the idea that there may
be things happening in the news right now that this
is kind of getting in the way of I don't
know if you guys saw the world stock markets over
the past few days, but it's been tumbling and tumbling
and tumbling, and uh, if you if you follow slash

(44:43):
r slash collapse on Reddit, um man, it's fascinating what's
going on right now. And I always feel like there's
kind of a smoke screen that goes on in the
world news that you know you'll you'll hear highlights of
they're like, oh my gosh, that was really bad. Everyone,
at least from my view, appears to want to kind

(45:04):
of shed their cover their eyes a little bit because
you just can't believe that your four oh one k
or wherever your money is allocated in the stock markets
in the world. You just have to pretend that it's
not actually collapsing, right, I mean there's because it feels
like if you look at it hard enough, you start

(45:24):
to see, oh, look at these imperfections. Oh wait, maybe
those numbers aren't real. Maybe those projections don't make any sense.
Oh wait a second, I should probably sell my stock.
I don't know the whole thing. It's just I think
that might be where people don't want you to look.
That's your point to go even bigger. There is a
there's a sense of perspective that is often lost on people.

(45:46):
It's lost on me. It's so easy for us, in
our brief span of time here as individuals and perhaps
as a species, to mistake the ephemeral ephemeral for the permanent. Yeah,
and uh, if you look at it, the great span
of the universe. We've barely begun to exist. Yes, and

(46:08):
so many things that seem to be concrete, unending institutions
are at best a house of cards in a windy room,
A glimmer, A glimmer, Yes, a flash in the pan. Uh.
And before this all burns down, we'd like to hear

(46:29):
from you, I should end more positive for a while. Yeah, No,
I just I found a really interesting article. Apparently, UM,
the folks and Oregon just last night allowed to Reuter's
reporters to join them and hang out. And there's a
pretty interesting article on raw story dot com and the
headline is Pizza, Paranoia and Psychological Warfare A night inside

(46:50):
the Oregon standoff. Um, there's some great photos and a
lot of information about UM, you know, how they're kind
of like using the facility and the compound that they
have their in different office of spaces and what they're
using them for. And there's a whole section on potential
in game scenarios. So I definitely recommend that for some
additional reading for for listeners out there. Fantastic, and we'd

(47:12):
like to also hear any additional reading that you would
like us to share with your fellow listeners. You can
find us on Facebook. You can find us on Twitter.
We are conspiracy Stuff at both of those and will
be providing updates uh both both from stuff we find
them from stuff you find. You can also find us

(47:33):
in other places where we are well. We can go
to Stuff they Don't want you to Know dot Com
for all of the podcast, videos, blog posts, you name it,
anything we've ever done, you can find it there um
And of course if you want to just send us
in an email, you can do that. We are conspiracy
at how stuff Works dot com. From more on this

(48:00):
topic and other unexplained phenomenon, visit YouTube dot com slash
conspiracy stuff. You can also get in touch on Twitter
at the handle at conspiracy Stuff.

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