Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is
riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or
learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A
production of I Heart Gradios How Stuff Works. Hello, welcome
(00:25):
back to the show. My name is Matt, my name
is Noel. They call me Ben. We are joined as
always with our super producer Paul, Mission controlled dec and
most importantly, you are you. You are here and that
makes this stuff they don't want you to know. Quick
check in as we want to do recently, how are
you guys? Feeling feeling good? Did some traveling now I'm back.
(00:46):
It's good to be with you, guys. Good to be
with you, dude. And the sacred space that is stuff
they don't want you to know. That's right. Hey, I
got to uh know, none of you will ever hear it,
but I got to be on an episode of Ridiculous
History this weekend. That's right, that's right. And the reason
that no one ever will ever hear is because we
forgot to record it. Yeah, who recorded a version of
(01:07):
it while you were on adventures? Man? Well, there we go. See,
it was just an ephemeral moment that occurred and I
thoroughly enjoyed it. I hope you guys did too. Oh gosh,
you saved the show. Okay, I don't accept to your
what you say, but it was it was a lot
of fun. Let's paint a picture real quick. Matt was
the voice of the super producer figure in the you
(01:29):
know scenario, uh like super much like Superproducer Paul Mission
Control Decca, but he was super Producer Matt the Madman Frederick,
and he decided it would be fun and ended up
being very fun if he was off stage like the
voice of God, like the man behind the curtain, and
he chimed in with great quotes and did voices and
sound effects and it was just a delight. Man. I
all I said were words written by Mr Ben Bullen.
(01:51):
A lot of those were quotations from Richard Warren Sears. Okay, well,
then big ups, Richard, and you did some great re enactments.
So we I hope you will be able to join
us for a recorded episode of that show one day.
Um you also, can we mention this on air? You
were in New Orleans? Yeah, I went to a crime
(02:12):
con and just hung out for a little bit, met
a wonderful couple the last names white and black. They
were they were really awesome and uh, I did some
montering of a panel. Yeah, it was. It was a
lot of fun. We've been doing more and more of
these paneled things recently. No, no, Paul, I know, I
know that despite trying to cajole you into talking on
(02:33):
the show, it's it's not really your bag. So maybe
for a check in with you, we can get a
thumb up or a thumb down. Is this a thumbs
up or thumbs down? Day? Oh, that's a vigorous thumbs up.
As a specific, uh follow up question, Paul, I saw
you at movies the other day going to see a film.
Was that thumbs up er thumbs down? Film? Double thumbs up?
(02:53):
You gotta remind me what it was called again? D
M and T now and it seemed like a really
kind of interesting twist d not sci fi, but kind
of an interesting, absurdist, weird kind of ride. I'm looking
forward to checking it out. Alright, alright, well here we
are again, folks, and we hope that your check in
with yourself has gone well. Uh, feel free to tell
(03:14):
us about it. If you've discovered something especially strange, you
can you don't have to wait. You can just pause
the episode and call us now because we have a
call in number. That's right, We're one eight three three
s C T W y t k A. All of
saying at once make it more or less intelligible more.
That's fun. People like rituals. Well, it feels like a ritual.
(03:36):
It feels like we're summoning something when we say that.
And here we are again, folks, Uh conspiracy realist. Long
time and first time listeners, thank you for tuning in.
We have spent several recent episodes diving into the true
crime aspects of this show. Proven conspiracies, many horrifying or
(03:58):
disquiet mean things that were acts of mundane human beings,
just kind of crappy people who were self important and
or had power and wanted more of it. That's kind
of how this stuff goes often. But don't worry. We
have never forgotten about the supernatural side of this show,
the world of the occults, the world of the hidden,
(04:20):
the esoteric, the unknown. Today we are delving into the
controversial world of what is called theistic Satanism and the
strange story of something called the order of nine angles
angles not angels. Well, what the heck is this thing?
You might ask. The best way to answer this question
(04:41):
is to begin laying down some groundwork first. So here
are the facts. Most people are cartoonishly wrong about Satanism.
It's just true, you know. Yeah, when you when you
hear satanism, you probably think about some of the imagery
that I myself have UH placed into videos about Satanism.
(05:02):
Robed figures, baffa mats everywhere, the horns of goats, and
certainly pentagrams, pentacles, all of those kinds of things. The
chanting yes is definitely one um and oh always almost
always black, like just black clothing with some hints of red,
(05:23):
or maybe all red with some hints of black. The
head of a goat, certainly heads of goats, black goat
with a thousand young yes, sacrifices both animal and human
right right. The idea here is there's a secretive group
of humans and maybe some not quite humans, opposed to
the more publicly dominant narrative, ideology or religious movements of Christianity, Judaism, Islam.
(05:50):
The people of the book right and the people who
worshiped this mon atheist to God who has uh in
this entity's past had a conflict with Uh, an adversary
sometimes called Lucifer more old scratch, the devil, el diablo. Um,
what are other good devil names like the actual devil
not demons? Yes, that's the one, yeah, and uh that
(06:15):
the morning Star and the morning Star two, the Lightbringer.
That's so yeah, it gets into that Promethean thing, right.
So the idea here is for for most people, when
they think of stereotypical Satan or devil worshippers, they're picturing
people who accept this sort of supernatural religious narrative, right,
(06:40):
that there is a God, and God had an adversary
of some sort who had all is known by these names.
This was once an angel, first among the angels, and
then it fell in rebellion and it took its fellow
mutineers with it. Uh. And now these people who worship
this fallen angel seek to spread this message and to
(07:01):
transform this the mundane world into something closer to his
infernal vision. They also, they also seem to UM usually
informally refer to Satan as a dude. Yeah. Absolutely, And
it's almost it's interesting how it's seen as and we
we actually talked to David I briefly about this. How
(07:22):
there are these two opposing forces, a force of light
and a force of darkness essentially, or corruption on the
other side, like creation and corruption. Something kind of duality
bounces around in a lot of things, right, and gnosticism
as well, and Star Wars movies, Star Wars movies, and
some animistic beliefs. I don't really know where I'm going
(07:43):
with them, just to say like that, that really is
such an old vision of how the universe functions within
these sects or within these groups. So how accurate are
these images that pop up when we hear the word,
you know, Satanism or seat wars or is luckily for us,
they are not very accurate at all. There there are
(08:05):
several let's call them genres of Satanism, right, and there
are multiple interpretations of things that could be called Satan
in the genres, or there are people's interpretation of what
this thing called Satan actually means or represents. And without
getting two into the weeds on old Boys identity, we'd
like to refer you to our earlier video episode. There
(08:26):
is all about the origins of Satan in Near Eastern
and Western ideology. Can we even have a show called
are There Real Satan? Worshippers or something. Oh we do,
we do have that as well. Yeah, and it tells
into almost all the questions you you might have like
at the beginning of this, So we're skipping all of that.
So if you pause today's episode to call us and
(08:47):
leave us a message telling us how you're doing, which,
thank you, by the way. If you did, uh, feel
free to posit again and watch those YouTube videos as
long as you're not you know, driving or or flying
a plane or something like that. Uh. So let's assume
you unpaused it, and now you know all about the
origins of satan and whether they are real Satan worshippers.
(09:08):
As with any religion or religious movement, Satanism has numerous branches.
It's more of a convenient umbrella term for some related
beliefs rather than any specific dogma because they they have
vastly different opinions, but they do have some commonalities, right
they have They have a couple of things that they
(09:29):
all generally agree on. Ye, largely an interest in magic
um that can be played out in several ways, either
like as some sort of psychodrama um, which to me
is a ritualized kind of performative kind of experience, is
that there are another way of looking at that. Well,
it's uh, yeah, it's it's one in which the you know,
(09:51):
we get catharsis, which is why people watch and participate
in plays. So it's sort of an empowerment of Catharsis
or a leverage gene of that. So now the person
who um the person the psychodramas everywhere, it's in Christianity,
it's an innocuous version of psychodrama. Would be the re
(10:11):
enactment of the Birth of the Christ child, got it,
which all the kids do in church. But in this
stuff they're like, I in this role, now am whatever deity.
So really a performative ritual is kind of a good
or there's another kind of ritual which is maybe less performative.
It would ascribe mystical events and much more of a magic,
(10:33):
magical power kind of to these acts as opposed to
the psychodrama. Wish to me, maybe it implies that you're
embodying it, but it's more a catharsist rather than some
kind of like spell the first or the second the psychodrama. Psychodrama, Yeah,
because the mystical event that would be that that is
more of a spell. That is more of like saying,
I am doing this to create this effect, you know,
in real time, and we can we can also explore
(10:56):
an instance of that, but we would want people to
know what's what's going on first. Yeah, so that's that's
one thing. Yes, this interest in in magic and and
the ritualized performance or an action of magic. But that's
not it, right, there's other stuff. There's also a sense
of community, the creation of a community that defines roles
in a hierarchy relationship between members somewhere between people who
(11:20):
share a mystical pursuit to those who live according to
a set of religious belief doctrine. And generally, when you're
talking about a lot of this stuff and how they're
forming their community, you're talking about people who really see
this philosophy of a symbolic lucifer or satan, which is
(11:41):
more about uh, your yourself, your own like um, the
single members, nonconformity to society in almost everywhere or as
many ways as are achievable, right, philosophy thriving on they
maybe instead of nonconformity, they might say something like the
benefits of being true to one's self. Yes, and in
(12:04):
that way it's it's a lot of times about breaking
your chains from a lot of societal's norms depending on
the type of Satanist. Okay, okay, right, because you know,
there can be conformity with there can be internal conformity,
uh strictly enforced in groups that are externally nonconforming, you
(12:24):
know what I mean. Yes, it's a little bit of
a a securitous way to put that point, but you're
right there the end of more of there's some that
focus a lot on individual like the individuality, others on
like the actual sect kind of and of course the
last commonality not a big spoiler, uh, some sort of
reference to Satan, if not worship of a singular entity.
(12:48):
And there are there are many many Satanist groups, the
best known of which are today are probably the Church
of Satan Anton lave A, right, and the spinoff of
that the I almost called it the sequel of Set,
the Temple of Set. Uh. It's sort of like how
Golden Girls was a spinoff of Maud, but with Satan
(13:09):
that's a deep cut for Golden Girls fans. So the
Church of Satan and the Temple of Set have this
sort of low level hierarchical leadership and kind of a
loosely agreed upon thing. Right, we we agree these following
things and then do as they'll wilt. So I want
(13:35):
to be very careful not to seem um disrespectful of
anyone's personal religious beliefs. If you were listening to this,
odds are you're probably not in the Church of Satan,
just because there's so many other religions with so many
other adherents out there. But your personal beliefs are your
own as long as you're not inflicting them on anyone else,
(13:58):
you know, are harming someone. It's it's our opinion that
you you can do what you want. You know, absolutely agreed.
So with that all in mind, here are some just
a few different types of Satanism. Right, there's one that
I think you were you're probably alluding to directly there, Matt.
Rational Satanism. It's secularized. It comes about in the nineteen sixties.
(14:20):
It's atheistic, meaning that there's not really a God, there's
not They calling it Satanism is sort of um using
satan as a stand in for something else. This was
under the direction of the famous Anton Leaves, an author
and occultist based in the States, who you can find
(14:41):
audio and video recordings of his voice. Sounds far less
sinister than one would initially, you know, assume it really does.
And I will never understand why he didn't begin going
like exclusively by Xander Lava because his I mean, having
sz Andert as a middle name, that's powerful stuff. Thought
he looked like Ming the Merciless from the Flash Gordon movie. Okay, wow,
(15:05):
he really does interesting. Yeah, okay, well, the Western society
has a thing with bald or shaved head guys and goateees.
It's a very pointy goateee. It's a particular type of gotee.
It's like that super angled kind of one. Yes and uh.
And this this gentleman, I'm just gonna call him Sander
or see that. That's the whole of the law. He
(15:26):
created the Satanic Bible. It still to this day remains available.
You can find it. It's one of the most um
at least most available books that you can find about
Satanism or the Satanic religion. And he formed this thing
known as the Church of Satan that we've already mentioned.
It is by far the most well known. It's the
thing that is mentioned. Oh, what's the what is that show.
(15:48):
Oh gosh, why can't I think of it on HBO?
It's a comedy about nerds. It's awesome. Freak. No that
the what is it? What's it called, Paul, It's the
Silicon Valley, Jesus Silicon Valley. You'll see it mentioned or
at least referenced heavily in Silicon Valley where there is
(16:11):
a Satanist character who talks about Anthon Levy all the time. Um.
And again, as you said, it's it's all about atheism,
it's about the individual essentially being empowered. And it really
does have this nice symbolic mirroring going on between you know,
satan rebelling against God or whatever the large God is
(16:32):
and then the Satanist rebelling against mainstream culture or or
mainstream religion. Right right, there is a nice symmetry to
the structure of the philosophy. Right And it's exactly as
you said. According to Levy, neither God nor Satan are
actual beings. And this is heretical to many people who
believe otherwise, even some Satanist or people who consider themselves such.
(16:56):
The only God in this sort of Satanism is the person,
the selves, the individual. So Satan quote unquote, Satan is
a symbol representing the qualities that Satanists embrace. So it's
kind of like they they took a character that they
thought was cool and didn't think was real, like Superman
(17:16):
or something, and they said, that's it. Those are the
those are the things you want to aspire to be.
Uh So invoking the name of Satan and other infernal
names is a tool in their rituals to focus one's
mind on on the manifestation of those qualities and those workings.
Tipping the hat to Alistair Crowley of course, no, right, yeah, yeah,
(17:40):
he's still in play. Have you guys seen Good Omens? Yeah,
the TV adaptation, I preferred it to the book. I
found the book whimsical in a way that didn't really
speak to me. But I know I'm gonna get some
heat for that. I found that about the show. I
couldn't make it three episode one. I thought it was
a little too Keetsie and the c G I really
called too much attention to itself. I'm gonna give another shot, though.
But Crowley is the name of the demon character, which
(18:01):
is based on the self styled most evil or wicked
man in the world. Alistair Crowley UH, famous um, famous
sexual predator, heroin addict uh and egoaniac. There you go
doing rituals in the middle of the Great Pyramid with
his wife. Well, okay, that's that's true. I am being
(18:25):
I am being a bit flippant about that because I
think that guy gets more credit than he deserves. But
but in some circles he is considered a pioneer. I've
never done that. No, no, I would be surprised if
you had. I don't know. It's just we can do
an episode on that. Maybe I need to be more
(18:46):
fair and come to terms with it. So the problem.
The problem is that at certain points in Crowley's life,
and this is a little bit of a soapbox for me,
at certain points in Crowley's life he demonstrably functions more
as a con artist than a true believer in someone's thing. Now,
if you're not if you're a true believer in something
(19:07):
and you're not hurting people, it doesn't matter what someone
else believes about it, you know what I mean, it's
your decision. But if you are an acting harm on
people who you know have not agreed to be in
your shenanigans, or if you are pretending to believe something
that you do not believe for the purposes of bilking
the credulous, Then what are you. You're not You're not
(19:30):
a leader of people. You're not you're not a holy being.
You're You're the same as anybody playing a crooked game
of three card Monty And just for the record, being
the Merciless and out they look exactly the same. I
just want to point that out. Simnel's holding this. Yeah,
I've got comics with mean the Merciless. That's them. That's
that's the Merciless, modeled it after after not just being
(19:55):
but several other ones. Yeah, because there there are other
characters that appear in um oh, what's that Flash Gordon comics?
Do you guys remember Flash Cordon comics from Okay? Yeah,
but there's a there's a predacess. Then maybe I'm thinking
of someone else, because I swear there's a predecessor in
the Encyclopedia of Supervillains. I was talking about the movie
and you know with the Queen soundtrack flash oh Master
(20:17):
out of a University. Oh yeah, that's good stuff. So
in comparison uh to or in contrast rather uh to
the Church of satan Uh philosophy. There are theistic Satanists.
These are what we think about, right, if we're the
average person, we're thinking about what a Satanist is uh.
Two members of this branch. Satan is not just some
(20:39):
symbol nor some clever useful metaphor. Instead, Satan is a genuine,
actual entity. These are the ones that you could refer
to as devil worshippers. Sure r. Yeah, they might worship
associated demons as well. Yeah. Different groups of theistic Satanists
may have differing interpretations about the nature of this being,
(21:00):
but they all agree it's real. It's similar in a
way to the process Church of the Final Judgment. How
they would have some lucifers and then they would have
some um where they sets Satan's I can't remember, but
they some worship this sort of light bringer Promethean aspect,
and others worshiped this punishment and fascist aspect. So examples
(21:24):
of this include things like the Temple of Set the
Golden Girls to the Maud of Church of Satan, and
then something called the Order of Nine Angles also known
as O n A or O nine A, and a
lot of the A lot of these sorts of UH
self styled organizations just like scientology or just like federal
(21:46):
government agencies. There's a huge emphasis placed on the on
initialisms and acronyms. So let's talk about how they were founded.
But let's do that after a quick word from our sponsor.
M alright, we're back. Let's talk about the Order of
(22:07):
the Nine Angles. So according to you know, one of
the I guess the common story that you can see
people within the Order of the Nine Angles, which are
we We're gonna get into it later. It's a bit
hard as an outsider to discern what is what, as
we'll find later in the episode within the Order of
the Nine Angles. But of the things that are publicly
(22:29):
facing in the virtual world, the common story is that
the organization itself was founded sometime in the nineteen sixties,
and then um as it continued along, it started to
gain more and more attention, especially in the nineteen eighties,
and a lot a lot of it had to do
with activism, specifically neo Nazi activism, which tied this group
(22:53):
into itself described traditional Satanism at times. The Order of
the Nine Angles has been just scribed as one of
the world's most extremist and dangerous of Satanic groups, and
it's known for its support of far right militant movements
overwhelmingly um, racially or religiously motivated. Vice called it the
(23:16):
most secret of Satanic groups as well, claiming that it
advocates for animal sacrifice, human sacrifice, and reshaping the world
entire to one's will. So what is the true story?
Where does the order of nine angles come from? And
how do the rumors stack up to the facts. Here's
(23:37):
where it gets crazy. First version, according to their story,
it's very much like like like you said now. First version,
it's established in the nineteen sixties by this shady lady
who's usually called not an intentional rhyme, usually called lady Master.
And she had previously, according to the story the tail
they spend, been involved in a quote secretive pre Christian
(24:00):
tradition that survived in the Welsh marches of western England.
So before the time or the rise of Christian ideology,
there was this secret mystery religion and this uh, this
person inherited the secrets passed down through um, through ritual,
through oral folklore, through rights and passages, unbeknownst to the
(24:24):
greater world and the oh nine a or Ona believe
that Satan is one of two a causual beings. A
causual being, Uh, something that is is not dependent upon
cause for it to exist, something that sort of prefigures
the uh if then reality of human existence. Uh. These
(24:47):
eternal beings are there are two of them, going back
to your thing about duality, right, One is Batha met
it was female in their mind, and one is Satan,
who is male in their mind. And then in nineteen
seventy three, guy calling himself Anton Long was initiated into
this group, eventually attaining the title of Grand Master, and
(25:07):
he really popularized the group with other groups because he
was quite prolific. He was the Alexander Hamilton's of his group.
He he wrote to wrote and wrote and wrote Man
the Kid is NonStop, etcetera. Other quotes from the Hamilton's
Broadway show. Because of this, you'll hear a lot of
(25:28):
people say that he was really the de facto founder. Uh.
It's suspected that the person who was the original they
called her the Lady Master, eventually had a child with
the person calling themselves Anton Long and relocated to Australia,
at which point Long began running the show. Here you go. Yeah,
you'll you'll find you'll find different versions of it. One
(25:51):
in this website called a cult dash study dot org
talks about how it was Anton Long who actually and
again this is probably likely from whoever is calling themselves
like you said, Ben anton Long, from the own his
own writings essentially where he brought together three different groups,
essentially three different um secret orders, Um what is it? Nocturalian's,
(26:15):
the Temple of the Sun, and the cam Lad tradition,
that this guy brought them all together and created this
thing called oh nine a UM. And again you'll find
various versions of it throughout the internet. Right. They expanded
on the orders, concepts and their ideas in all these
(26:35):
publications which will get into and and they tied it
into um some oh what should we call it, some
some contemporary politics of their time. In they made their
journal Thin Rear, which was another was another Um sort
of rung in the ladder of walking up to public prominence,
(26:58):
which is what they always wanted. With each publication, this
group sought to establish links with other neo Nazi Satanist groups,
which are totally a thing. And there there are more
than you might imagine, uh, and by that I mean
not just not just people who are being profiled because
they're fans of metal. People honestly do consider themselves Satanist. Yeah,
(27:22):
and this is where we get into the full society
and some of the strange occult beliefs and actions of
portions of the Nazi Party, or at least some of
the upper echelon of the Nazi Party. I'm really glad
that you mentioned that, because the Order at times has
preferred to describe its ideology as Nazi occult. And it's
(27:44):
strange the way these things become ephemeral. Right, the names
can be worn and discarded like old jackets, or reused
and reshaped, and now it means something completely different, redefined, right, Yeah,
like you know that mean that's also just a human thing,
that's just a mundane thing. There is some magical power
(28:04):
in names for people who are adherents of those belief systems.
But take the term neoliberal versus liberal. Liberal means something
very different in the international sphere than it does here.
And the leading conservative party in Australia, for instance, Australia
just how an election as we're recording this, the leading
conservative party is the Liberal Party. I believe there you go.
(28:27):
I don't know names. What are they? Maybe they are
all old jackets. So the Order prefers to describe itself, um,
what's ideology rather as Nazi occult. So that's promoting a
supernatural system of thoughts that condemns liberal Judeo Judeo Christian
society and longs for a new imperial age created by
(28:50):
a sub Nietzschean superman figure called the Vindex. And that
is not Windex is pronounced with a German accent to
the vindex, the V right they that's true, Yeah, it is,
and they ant on long to do that, right, Okay,
(29:10):
And ultimately the idea is to expand to the stars, uh,
and to bring this ideology outside of the terrestrial sphere. Yeah,
I mean, that's it's an ambitious belief system. It sounds
like they want to be stormtroopers, you know what I mean,
like full on the whatever the New Order is in
(29:34):
the new Star Wars systems. It feels like that to me.
And they also did some really disturbing stuff. The way
it's it's tied up in in this kind of love
of fascism and this this um again. I don't know
how sincere it is, this worship of characters like Adolph Hitler.
So that's the first version. The second version is a
(29:56):
little different and it dives into more mundane matters according
to observers and commentators, and you'll find a surprising amount
of literature on this. Uh. There is no real Anton Long.
This is a pseudonym used by a British uh former
neo Nazi named David Mayat. I think it's Mayatt M
(30:17):
y A T T who either used this organization to
further his own ends or created an elaborate hoax out
of whole cloth. Um. Yeah. He's known in Britain for
being a hardline national socialist or neo Nazi, advocating national
socialism as well as violence. In the past, he's been
implicated in physical beatings of people. And usually when these
(30:41):
sorts of characters are implicated in violence, they attack and packs,
you know what I mean. So like a group of
people jumping a single person. Uh, the oh nine a
grab national attention and the global war on terror. When
the organization was um second or even third hand associate
(31:02):
with series of murders. So then this order wanted to
you know, move up, get some more things like uh,
not really infiltrate just bring in other groups to grow
their own ranks. Right, So they attempted to infiltrate some
of these um non satanic Nazi groups or neo Nazi
movements such as there's one specifically this mentioned in several
(31:24):
publications called the atom Woffen Division, which is often atom
whatever it is, atom Offen, And it's a US based organization.
And this group, at least it's affiliates killed five people
in two thousand seventeen and two thousand eighteen. So this
is recent. This is very recent, and it is a
(31:45):
real group. It's just sounds it sounds odd from the
law enforcement side of things. Um, the all this esoterica
and occult ritual uh, doesn't really matter anymore than say
like a gang initiation or some kind of really heavy hazing. Yeah,
right exactly, because they're not going to It's useful in
(32:06):
that it can identify members of an organization, but to them.
You know, imagine, if your job is to stop organized
crime and game killings, you want to learn about these
groups so that you can to some degree predict and prevent,
predict their behavior and prevent further criminal acts. But you're
not you know, odds are if you're if you're in
(32:28):
the FBI or something, You're not going to stay up
at night worrying that these people may curse you. You're
more concerned about whether they have access to firearms and explosives.
It's a you know, it's it's kind of a more
grounded or mundane look at this. However, do you have
to say on a side note, I did find two
(32:49):
Freedom of Information Act request to the FBI about this
order of nine angles, and in both cases the FBI
responded by saying that they searched and they didn't have
anything there. You go, So maybe they're not a pic deal.
I don't know. Uh mayat for for his own his
own right, has also in addition to the nine things,
(33:12):
like the Holocaust, Uh denied that he ever went by
the name Anton long Uh. He also went through iterations
where he practiced as a Buddhist monk, and then he
embraced radical Islam, praising al Qaeda and attempting to unite
Nazis and Islamic terrorists. That's nightmare material. That's an odd couple,
(33:34):
isn't it. It seems strange, right, but so so we
already see in the origins of this thing there, there
is a bit of duplicity. The question is whether it's
an purposeful or whether it's just kind of bungling, you
know what I mean? Um, how much of this is
meant to be taken seriously? How much of it is
meant to be believed? I think we mentioned a little
(33:54):
bit about their process and you mentioned vindex. Uh what
what about the the rest of their beliefs? What what's
their plans? Yeah? So they believe that civilization has to
be destroyed from within, completely undermined and disassembled, dismantled. So
the adherents are actually encouraged to be pretty awful people, like,
(34:16):
as you know, part of their whole prescribed course of
making this happen. Um. So that includes things like committing
crimes and random acts of violence, sexual assaults, and even
this whole like genocide kind of idea, calling human victims.
They also embrace magic. They do share that same commonality
that we had mentioned at the top, right, But when
(34:38):
we talk about their magic, what what are we what
are we talking about? I guess that's part of why
they're called the Order of the Nine Angles. All right,
you ready for this? I got this from uh oh
nine a dot org. And it's just a post there,
and it's talking about what the nine angles actually represent.
So it says, quote, their nine angles refer to the
nine combinations of the three basic alchemical substances mercury, sulfur, salt.
(35:05):
And these nine angles slash combinations were first outlined in
this text. It's nine from nine four is called emanations
of Urania Urania Urania who knows and Uh. These nine
combinations can be used to symbolize how the causal and
a causal are manifest to us, as for instance, in
our psyche the nexion of causal a causal that we
(35:29):
are via archetypes personality types. And it just goes on
with stuff that I honestly am struggling to understand. And
and a lot of this, a lot of writing in
this fear, whether it's hawking left hand path, right hand path,
stuff does tend to be a little bit up touse. Uh.
They also practice something that they call the sevenfold Way.
(35:53):
So the sevenfold Way is a series of steps meant
to make someone a a practical master of all forms
of sorcery physically mentally fit. Uh. In this way is
divided into these seven stages. The stages are neophyte, initiative,
external adept, internal adept, master of temple or mistress of earth,
(36:16):
grand master or Grand mistress, and of course immortal. Uh.
Sometimes initiatives are described or called novices, and adepts are
called priest or priestess. It goes on majors, major strap.
It's also known as hebdomadry. Does that our word for today?
Met her? Or the sevenfold way? How does it? How's
(36:40):
it spelled? H G B D O M A D
R Y All right? Uh? Someone used that in a
sentence and call us. Uh. So it's strange when we
look at this, because what we're seeing quickly becomes a
rabbit hole of occult's philosophy and working again tied in
very much like the Thule Society or Toulife Society to
(37:03):
these um to these race based beliefs h and what
what we pointed out, however, should already be pretty disturbing.
The purpose here for the members of this society, by
their own statements, are to destroy what we know of
(37:24):
as civilization, up to and including human sacrifice, which they
do talk about at length, and which differentiates them from
a lot of other Satanic groups. Let's let's pause for
a moment, for a word from our sponsors, and then,
assuming that we have not been killed via magical means,
let's explore a little bit more about their work. We
(37:52):
made it. We're still here. Yes, no one has uh
gotten us by magical psyche or more traditional means. So
let's check the Paul. Oh he's there, he's in tact alright. Good.
I don't know when his eyes turned all black, but
you know it's it's it's it's it's called the Monday.
(38:14):
It's a Monday cometic. Yeah, these kids these days, so, uh,
they're not. This group, the Order of Nine Angles, is
not known for subtlety, especially um so they have a
book called the Black Book of Satan, comes in three volumes. Uh.
These are considered so extreme that they're kept in a
(38:36):
special section of the British Library or they're not available
to the general public. You have to ask for them
at a counter research purposes kind of thing. That's because
these books repeatedly talk about the idea of of culling
committee acts of violence and destabilization up to an including
terrorism and with with the active culling. What's fascinating is
(38:58):
one of the steps that they're they're told to do
is to groom someone to voluntarily submit to being sacrificed.
That's the ultimate, uh, the ultimate coup there. Uh. And
they also have a an interesting work study program for
lack of a better term, that they send their members on.
(39:19):
Would you believe I had looked up the Black Book
of Satan Amazon and there is one paperback available used
for eight hundred and sixty four dollars. Yeah, I would
believe that. I guess they're hard to get a hold of.
That happens with a lot of occult books. Yeah, I
mean it maybe two that someone has. Someone is either
like billoking someone, or they have multiple copies and they're
(39:40):
just putting them out one at a time. I saw
that before, you know, I wonder if anybody does have
a copy of the Black Book of Satan. I found
a free download pdf on a called boards dot com.
I'm sure it's the real deal. I don't know, Yeah, right,
getting a PDF of the Black Book of Satan. I
laugh at the So let's get into what is required
(40:03):
of oh and A members who are going along that
sevenfold path, trying to get into one of the noxioms
or whatever they're called. Yeah, that work study, I was
mentioning exactly one of these, one of these cells essentially,
so they they want people to spend six months either uh,
just traveling like hitchhiking the way you would traditional traveler
(40:26):
along that path, working as either you know, a burglar,
maybe working even as a police officer, or infiltrating some
some version of an extremist political group where you're just
kind of roaming and in working inside one of these
other organizations. Two things that that connect with this. This
(40:48):
is very inspiring for any of us horror writers in
the audience. There used to be a television show maybe
in the nineties barely two thousand's that was sort of
the scary anthology show called the Hitchhiker, Remember that and
the Hitchhiker. The frame was that someone picks up the
hitchhiker and terrible stuff happens, which was which was gold.
(41:12):
But it makes me, it makes me see how appealing
this could be, uh to people who are fearmongers in
the uh nineteen eighties Satanic panic scare here in the
United States, you could say Satanists are all around you.
They're low level criminals, they're hitchhikers, they're living off the grid.
You know, they're going to rainbow gatherings or you know,
(41:36):
they're hopping trains. They're avoiding the spotlight of mainstream America.
And with the fact that you know that seems like
that seems like just some something people would say to
sell headlines, right or get people to tune into sixty
minutes or something. But here we have a real group
saying yes, go do this for six months. Yeah. Especially
(42:00):
what baffles me is thinking that, at least on this list, um,
where it was mentioned saying a police officer would be
a good route for this, And I guess it's because
you're you're essentially practicing power over others. Um. I guess
there's reasons too that a police officer would be on
that list. Yeah, and one in one passage they said,
(42:22):
do something that is far outside your previous life experience,
but working in law enforcement will give you liam nice
and ask a certain set of skills. There you go,
you know, for physical altercation, the tactical thinking. Well that yeah,
and that's something we kind of talked about before in
this but when we're mentioning that sevenfold path that you
(42:43):
go down to join this group, you it is about
the psychological it's about the empowering that, it's about empowering
you psychically, it's about empowering you physically and all these things.
So I guess a police officer would be a really
good way to get there. And from their literature this
has uh, this is weird. I want to see you
(43:07):
guys think of this. So from their literature they attempt
to quote undertake the role of extreme political activists and
so champion heretical views by e g. Becoming involved in
extreme right wing activism. They demand this. In one of
their introductory books, they say, quote the aim is to
express fanaticism and action X and be seen by all
(43:28):
right thinking people as extremists and dangerous. So they want
to be the people who are I don't know. It
feels to me like they're talking about edginess for the
sake of edginess, you know, like they're gonna bust into
an all right meeting and someone's gonna say, well, you know,
I just I just don't think we should. They're gonna
(43:50):
bust into a tea party meeting. Maybe let's make it
even more innocuous than They'll say, I don't think we
should pay taxes, And they're like Yeah. Additionally, we should
burn all the money. Yea. Everybody's like, oh, those guys
are dangerous. So so they've they've kind of got this
idea of um again, very very motivated by racism. Uh,
(44:10):
they've kind of got this idea similar to um Joker
in the Dark Night, where they the heath Ledger Joker,
the good one, where they want to just so chaos
and discriminately. But unlike the Joker, who is a who's
a fictional character and exists only to spread chaos for
the sake of chaos itself. Uh, this group seeks to
(44:33):
spread chaos to make it easier to propagate their twisted
world and cosmic view. So let we see that's strange,
tragically not necessarily alien marriage of ideology. Here the Nazis
and the so called Satanist U nineteen to pursue goals
that are at least non mutually exclusive. So for the
(44:56):
oh nine a, fascism is actually seen as a means
to you, an end rather than an end in and
of itself, particularly this idea of a sinister dialect um
that's the key to the aonic evolution of human civilization
into a higher form. But the Maijian Nazarene distortion also
(45:18):
known as the Christians and the Jews UH is holding
back Western civilization. According to this doctrine, UM from reaching
its final step, some sort of evolutionary step, and must
be overthrown if humanity is to advance. So holy war
or unholy war. Absolutely, yeah. And the vision here goes
(45:39):
to that thing that you mentioned earlier, been that Vindex,
yes right, being led by Vindex deep into the cosmos
where um Gri mentioned, they'll establish a galactic Reich to
champion and make known our unique human destiny of galactic
exploration and the colonization of outer space. This is from
(46:03):
the Direki and Way d R E C C I A.
And Uh, we're not recommending that you check out these books.
Were just letting you know that these are these are
the the tenants, the goals, and the aims as self
described by this by this UH organization. Oh yeah, and
(46:24):
they really do want to you know. It's it's this
concept at least of creating a sinister world. And but
here's the thing. In order to have the world be sinister,
you've got to make the people that they were living
in that world or controlling and running that world sinister.
So they think this can happen through what they call
the practice of genuine modern heresies. I know, I like that.
(46:49):
I don't mean to poke fun at it, but genuine
modern heresies. Um, and this is you know, again taking yourself,
the individual person through all of these mental and physical
trials that you know, well, you're going through mental and
physical trials and at the same time, you're also practicing
magic with the k so ritualizations, things you're you're basically,
(47:13):
I don't know, you're you're honing yourself on all possible
fronts to become evil I guess in a way, or
maybe maybe not. The word evil is correct here, but uh,
to do the things that the group wants to do. Well,
here's a question. Do you think people that are adherence
to this kind of belief system do they see themselves
as evil? That's interesting in some In some cases there
(47:37):
would be people associating with this because they want to
they want to be seen as evil. But don't they
just think that the path of satan is the better path?
Then you probably do. Yeah, So I'm just wondering if
even if good and evil even enters into it at
this point, when you when it comes to your thinking
behind getting behind something like this. I guess that's why
(47:59):
I was hesitant to use the term. I guess when
I'm what I mean is adversarial to the status quo
and or the the ways in which society are set up,
in the institutions that hold that society up. I'm just
getting all big picture about it in my head. And
it's just interesting to think about the nature of good
and evil and this. Does true evil really see itself
that way? Or do they just believe that they're actually
(48:20):
doing what's best. It's an interesting question because in many cases, yeah,
in many cases, Uh, all great villains are the heroes
of their own stories. Right then say I'm doing terrible things,
but I'm doing it for a greater reason, right and
there you know, people have to die, but the world
will be better, etcetera, etcetera. The thing that's interesting about
(48:41):
some theistic satanism and why it can be so attractive
to people who are already um involved in something that
that puts the bulk of its emphasis on violence in
the short term, UH, is that there's not too much
of a leap to go to something else like this. UH.
(49:02):
And one thing that's interesting about the question about regarding
seeing oneself as good or evil is that you can
get a little bit of a sense, not a re
not a reliable sense. You can get a little bit
of a sense of how someone sees themselves by what
emphasis they place on things. Do they place the emphasis
(49:23):
on their ultimate end goal? Vision? Is that like sevent
of this you know, like most uh many religions spend
uh seventy percent or so of their time talking about
how to be a decent person now right, or do
they spend the majority of their time talking about the
violet things they will do to get a vaguely explained
(49:44):
thing in the past or in the sorry in the future. Y. Yeah,
I mean that's to me. It's tough because it probably
various case by case. But I'm sure in Satanism there
are a few people who think I am evil, I
embrace it, I'm the son of the beasts or whatever,
and they probably really believe it. Maybe they're misled, you know,
whatever does it for you, is what I say. Like
(50:04):
we're talking about the beginning of the show. If you
if you can use religion and maybe not ritualistically murder people,
but if this doesn't for you, you know, being evil,
the idea of being evil, and you're not gonna, you know,
call an entire population, then I say more power to you.
But unfortunately this particular idea involved a lot of these
random acts of murder and rape and violence and all
(50:25):
terrible stuff doing unto the innocent. So I can't get
behind the can't get behind the on nine A here, guys,
I'm sorry you cannot throw my endorsement at this, this order,
which is weird because it was your pitch. I know
it sure, and I think it was interesting because I
had never heard of this. And this leads us to
maybe one of our bigger questions which we always have
(50:46):
to ask with these sorts of groups. Is it a
case of Satan's military as Satanic army, or is it
a case more of internet bravery? You know, like the
Order has been referred to a Satan's military, But it
seem too more accurate to say that the order or
the people who claimed to be involved with it, because
(51:06):
we can't verify a whole bunch of people, seems accurate
to say that they are maybe militant in attitude more
than organized and violent in person. Because the crimes that
can be reasonably traced to OH nine A affiliates and
partner organizations seem to be crimes that were sort of
egged on by the group but not enacted by the
group directly. And Uh, the OH nine A was also
(51:29):
once dismissed by other occultists as the order of no
members because this one guy, David Meyatt and I think
another guy named Molt appeared to be the only visible
figures within the organization. So how much of it is
just them writing prolifically under different names? You know what
I mean? The pseudonym aspect I can see at work here. Um.
(51:53):
But again, we didn't point this out already a little bit,
but we have noticed, and it's been documented that their growth,
this this OH nine A growth has been right alongside
other like I guess what we would call right wing
extremist groups, sure, yeah, yeah, supremacist organizations would be a
big one, UH, Neo Nazi organizations. And this has led
(52:14):
to a couple of really strange conspiratorial thoughts, UH. One
being there was actually some infighting between UH members of
white supremacy groups and members of this OH nine A thing,
because there were people saying look, guys, I'm just here
because I'm a white supremacist. I don't like all this
(52:35):
weird hocus pocus stuff. I'm we've lost, We've lost our
way out of the game. And everyone's like, oh, well,
that guy doesn't get it. And then someone else said,
you know, I feel like I also fault more on
the supremacy now side, and like the magic stuff is cool. Like,
don't get me wrong, dude, I love metal or whatever.
(52:57):
I'm not I'm not knocking metal. I am slocking racist,
but I'm not knocking metal. It does make me feel
a little bit sad for the people who joined up
because they were all about that magic and all about
the that stuff, and they realized, oh, this is a
separatist group. Yeah. Right. There are other people who said,
I thought we were just doing rituals. I mean, I'm
(53:18):
down for our infernal Lord and Master, but I feel
like our infertile Lord and Master should be an equal
opportunity employer. So I mean, we're making a little bit
of light of this, but it's it's um, it's a
dangerous thing when we see this connection of ideologies and
these people are conspiring in secret. We don't know we
(53:39):
don't know how much of it is just bluff and
bluster on the on and a part we don't know
how much of it, even to some degree, has taken
seriously for all the people. Is it an elaborate hoax.
There's a lot of writing out there, but again it's
not as if there is a center that you can visit.
You know, there's not. There's not a our structure that
(54:01):
is readily apparent to a lot of people, and perhaps
that's they've just kept it internal. We do know that
at this point the organization is still considered to be
out there, but the views it espouses have have mainly
caught UH the attention of law enforcement and governments because
of the actions of its affiliates white supremacist hard right
(54:24):
wing UH terror groups terrorist groups. At a two thousand
three UNESCO conference in Paris concerning the growth of anti
Semitism in Europe and abroad, UH, they stated David Mayatt,
the leading hardline Nazi intellectual in Britain since the sixties,
who maybe what is it Anton long has converted to Islam.
(54:48):
This was true at the time. He praised Bin Laden
and al Qaeda, he called the nine eleven tax and
active heroism. He urged for the killing of all like
all Jewish people, and he also he used another name,
Abdul Laziz ibbin Mayattuh. He supported suicide missions. He has
one of the most thorough English language defenses of that. Uh.
(55:10):
He urged young Muslims to take up violent jihad, which
is not any Any actual Muslim will tell you that
the kind of thing he's calling jihad is not jihad. Uh.
Observers warned that he's a dangerous man, But since two
thousand ten, he claims to have changed. He says, I've
rejected Islam. My extreme has passed, and guys, it's all
(55:32):
about loving each other. Yeah, that's what he says now.
But the extremism seems to carry on. The question now
is whether it's legitimate, whether the people who claim to
believe it online actually practice it in person, or as
some have proposed, as the entire thing a hoax. Is
it a government front to monitor right wing groups? Let
(55:52):
us know what you think that's the most promising for me,
or the most silver lining answer for me. It's a
front group of some sort that's trying to stop some
of these other organizations. But people still got killed. So
they must not be doing that great of a job. Yeah,
you know you're you're probably right. So what do you
guys think front or legitimate like splinter group of real
(56:16):
deal Satanism. Let us know. You can hit us up
on our Facebook group we are called Here's where it
gets crazy. That's really the funnest way to interact with
the show. If you ask me. A lot of members
on their posting responses to every episode, like messageboard style
posting all kinds of memes and topics. It's just a
good group of folks. Yeah, and if you could reach
out and just give us, you know, if you've had
(56:37):
any interaction with this group whatsoever, if you have any
personal stories that you are are not um that you
don't mind telling us, Yeah, reach out, reach out to
us for sure about that stuff. You can give us
a call, like we said at the top one eight
three three std w y t K. It goes right
into the the hands of us, particularly to my phone.
(57:00):
So whenever you feel like calling, it doesn't matter what
time it is, it'll uh, it won't ring, but it
will say, hey, you got a message? Is that true? Yeah?
You gotta set up like that. Yeah, last night I
got a ton of messages. Can you set us? Can
can everybody get notifications? Yeah? If you guys download ring
Central and in and use it. We don't want to
burden just you with that. We should we should share
(57:22):
the well, we'll shoulder that for you time. I'm a
bit behind, so I need to get up. We had
maybe we had so many great messages too. I've actually
texted a few people back and I thought that that
was to my episode was a lot of fun, like
the column I mean there, I was just enamored listening
to the messages. Yeah, they're fantastic. I could have taken
our left are you know commentary, but the messages were
just great. Just as a quick story, we uh, one
(57:44):
person called in on Friday while I was in the hotel.
It was at night and I was working on Actually
I was looking over the ridiculous history outlined Ben that
you sent, and this person left four messages in a row,
and the fourth one that he sent was about monster
energy and how maybe there's out maybe some group out
(58:05):
there is trying to control us with monster energy. And
it was while I was finishing one, and it really
did uh give me the I don't know the feeling
what it is that the heb gbs give me the
spine tingling feeling like maybe someone is trying to control me.
Maybe it's you. That would be monstrous. You can also
(58:25):
find us on Instagram. You can also find us on Twitter. Hey,
you might be saying, I hate all that social media stuff.
It's twenty nineteen. I'm scared of phones. All I hey
do is use email? Then, boy, have we got some
good news for you. You can email us directly. We
are conspiracy at iHeart radio dot com. Ye Stuff they
(59:03):
Don't want you to Know is a production of I
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