October 16, 2020 • 64 mins
Everyone loves looking sharp - and saving money in the process. But what if there's a hidden cost to all this fast fashion and these trendy cosmetics? In the second part of this series, the guys return to the underbelly of the worldwide fashion and cosmetic industries, exploring how the global production process affects wildlife and spreads pollution -- and what these companies don't want you to know about the ultimate price of that next piece of clothing.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is
riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or
learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A
production of I Heart Radio. Hello, welcome back to the show.
(00:26):
My name is Matt, my name is Null. They call
me Ben. We are joined as always with our super
producer Paul. Mission Control deconds. Most importantly, you are you,
You are here, and that makes this stuff they don't
want you to know. This is part two of what
turned out to be a continuing series on fashion Dark
(00:47):
Side of Fashion UH. In our previous episode, we explored
the troubling underbelly of the fashion industry. We touched on
problems such as exploitation of labor, legislative loopholes around the world,
and cases of continuing outright slavery. In today's episode, we're
going to look at another aspect of the fashion industry.
(01:11):
It's effect on the natural world, which is something I
think escapes a lot of folks. I know it escaped
to me before we really dove into this. But let's
start with makeup, which is fascinating in itself. Here are
the facts. Yeah, the first use of early cosmetics generally
(01:31):
goes back to ancient Egypt, and it's not uncommon to
find Egyptian tombs that actually have makeup canisters or some
kind of uh, makeup inside of them. It's kind of
interesting stuff. Um, and Cleopatra, you may have heard this,
she used lipstick. They got it to you from ground
carmine beetles. Yeah, I mean, yeah, you get hues wherever
(01:55):
you can get them. Really, you can still get dies
from animals, you know what I mean. The beetles are
still are still a part of this industry exactly. And
you know, and that was very striking to use the beetles.
Cleopatra's used of the beatles was very striking because a
lot of other women at the time, It's just anyone
(02:16):
who was using makeup would have mixed clay essentially with
water to get coloring on their lips, which a red
clay kind of situation, perhaps seasonal. Yeah, yeah, but there
was other stuff that that people used to find color
and to use it on their bodies. Yeah, they were
(02:37):
super ahead of the curve. We're still talking about Egypt,
where um, you could use coal, which was a mix
of metal lead, copper, ash and burnt almond's and surprise, surprise,
wasn't particularly good good for you, good for your complexion, making,
you know, rubbing lead and copper mixtures on your face
probably not the best idea, but it sure looked cool.
(02:58):
Gave you this real irridescent kind of sh any i circles,
and both men and women were all about this style.
They painted these kind of raccoons circles around their eyes,
and the circles of call were meant to ward off
the evil eye, which is a thing you see often
in Egyptian hieroglyphs I'm not mistaken and dangerous spirits and
much like you'll see baseball players and football players with
(03:20):
those big, you know, kind of dark lines under their eyes. Um.
Turns out it's really good at deflecting the sun and
keeping it out of your eyes and keeping it from
it keeps you cooler, essentially, and it may have even
inadvertently helped some of the Egyptians ward off infectious diseases
because even though the lead's not good for you, and
(03:41):
on the one hand, it can kill off bacteria. Um.
But yeah, this wasn't necessarily as much of a thing
that we could see because Egyptians didn't have particularly long
lifespans anyway, they were like the hamsters of civilization. UM.
The it might have actually killed them off if they
continued to wear it, if they had had longer life
expanse Yep, lead is bad for you. It turns out,
(04:05):
as we've seen in the you know, the now infamous
UH studies correlating lead exposure in early childhood two problems
later in life. We talked about the Egyptians a lot
because it's the most is the most commonly known example
of what we call prototype cosmetics. UH. The ancient Greeks
(04:26):
and Romans also painted their faces with powders made up
of various minerals or ground stone. But we can't be
too Egyptian centric or Greco Roman centric, because if you
think about it, cosmetics appear in some form in virtually
every culture. Like we noted in the first part of
(04:49):
the series, UH. Fashion is sometimes dismissed as something purely decorative,
but it's also it can be a powerful statement. And
makeup is the same way as multi double uses across
the span of history, not just uh not just relegated
to the realm of decoration. Uh nol. I really appreciate
(05:09):
you pointing out that Cole served ko h l by
the way, served a practical purpose. Uh. Makeup has and
continues to uh serve as a symbol of religious significance
in some cases, or of social status, like your example,
Matt about the queen getting the good fancy lipstick with
(05:32):
beetles versus you know, the old clay water of the
working class and the prolls. So, just like fashion, of course,
makeup has gone and we'll go through multiple phases. Different
things go in and out of style. The origin story
of modern makeup, cosmetics, personal care products as we understand
(05:54):
it today, really starts at the dawn of the twentieth century.
That's when you see the emergence of things like nail polish,
is lipstick, Mascara's in again what we will call the
modern form and it there are a couple of really weird,
well really fascinating social and technological factors that coincided and
(06:16):
birthed modern makeup or popularized it. Well, yeah, I think
about it. Right around this time, for really the first
time in a popular way, you are probably having a
picture taken a view like a portrait, something that is
up close and personal. It's gonna show everything going on
(06:37):
up here right, So yeah, I mean, I mean seriously,
you'd have to you'd have to really save up your
money if you wanted to get one of these done,
and you'd have to sit there for a long time.
Is to be the one picture you got. This is it,
This is the this is your chance. You gotta make
sure you look the absolute best. It's not like you
(06:58):
take twenty eight of them and then decide, hey, I'm
going to post this to my eighteen hundreds Instagram. And
that that time factor is also why people you don't
see a ton of people smiling in those old photos,
because you would have to do this. We're so for
so very long. You know. I don't know about you guys,
but I grew up. When I was growing up, I
(07:20):
just thought everybody from that time was in a real mood. Totally.
Did I make this up? Or weren't there even devices
that would like hold their heads in place or something
like that, like some kind of little thing that they
could rest I swear to God, I know, for for
the photography that became popular that was like a photo
of a dead body after someone had passed, that kind
(07:41):
of apparatus was created, But I don't know about actual
like regular role a live human photography head bracers or
I don't know what you'd call it, a right, maybe
I'm getting Maybe I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm just
saying I've never heard of. No, I'm gonna go ahead
and come out and say it I'm wrong. You know.
There's something like that that happens though, especially with photographs
(08:06):
of infants, because their heads are really big. So there's
probably a mom or dad who's like, let me drop
of your nogging here. Uh, you don't worry about it,
will be gently prop up in yeah. Uh. The other factor,
another factor is that mirrors, true mirrors we would call them,
(08:27):
became much more affordable, so they were much more common
in the average person's home. But the big one, the
biggest badger in the makeup bag here, is the rise
of the motion picture fundamentally change the world, fundamentally change
uh makeup and the normalization of how people should look.
(08:47):
Because we have to remember that a lot of actors
who came into the early days of motion pictures were
wearing theatrical makeup for live stage. And that's very different
because you want some thing that exaggerates your facial feature.
So even the people way in the cheap seats can
see your emotions and the transformations you go through. Uh,
(09:10):
and that just looks screwy on film because you're really
close up. It's the same with acting styles being different
from stage to film. You have to act very large
and and in order for people to catch the vibes
that you're putting out there, and film you can act
much more daintily and subtly. And by the way, quick amendment,
I was not wrong. It's called a head brace and
(09:31):
it's absolutely a thing. Well there you go, okay, I was.
It's this weird medieval torture device looking thing on a
stand that sits behind you, and you can you can
lengthen or shorten it depending on you know, where you
want your head to be. And it's not like it
like it's a claw or something. It's something you sort
of lean your head back against because do you think
about it, even your neck muscles are gonna get tired
(09:51):
and you might drift from one side to the other,
forward to back. Where this thing just sort of it's
like a fancy head rest on an office chair, only
it's separate and you can't see it in the well, yeah,
I mean that's great. As long as the spirit glue
holds the mustache on your face, then will be okay.
I love it. And those are technological innovations that evolved
(10:13):
in step with this new media is what we're having.
We're having an increasing democratization of media. But it's nothing
like the break deck pace whereat today and fast forward.
Of course, makeup cosmetics are a huge part of this
and today the modern cosmetic industry, which is so huge
(10:34):
that it's tough to even call it a single industry,
is an economic titan. It is a financial leviathan. The
main categories are each you know, industries of their own skincare,
hair care, makeup, perfume, cologne, toiletries, deodorance. Things are called
oral cosmetics, which is an interesting kind of liminal space. Anyway.
(10:59):
Since the early twentieth century, the production of all these products,
beauty and cosmetic products has been controlled by a handful
of corporations that I won't call caballs, but I mean
they're just very huge and very successful. Uh. Some specialized
in these products, like Loreal. Others own a ton of
(11:21):
other things that are not associated with cosmetics, like you know,
Lever or Procter and Gamble, and then there's Este Lauder,
and and and so on. What we're saying is there's
some big fish at the top. And as of eighteen,
the US was considered and still is considered the most
(11:41):
valuable a K profitable beauty personal care market in the world.
In eighteen alone, this industry generated eighty nine point five
billion dollars just in the US in one year. That's
that's incredible. Um. Okay, well, let's talk about what the FDA,
(12:04):
the Food and Drug Administration, has to say. Uh. They
define cosmetics as quote articles intended to be applied to
the human body for cleansing, beautifying, promoting attractiveness, or altering
the appearance without affecting the body's structure or functions. Beautifying
and running attractiveness or two different things. Somehow, I don't
(12:26):
quite understand the difference, but they seem to be important
enough to be listed separately. I don't know. I to me,
that feels like one is for you and one is
for others. That's I don't know if that's correct or not. Um.
But again, we talked about a lot of these things.
We're talking about skin creams, perfumes, all that stuff. Um. Yeah,
but everything to even the shampoo things you may not
(12:47):
think about. UM. As weird as this sounds, there's there's
ocular cosmetics if you think about like context that you
can get specialized and all these other things to make
your eyes all black right right or whatever mostly just black. UM,
it's really interesting stuff. Before we go too much further,
(13:09):
I want to ask, do you guys know two people
named Shane Dawson and Jeffrey Starr and or familiar doesn't
ring a bell for me? Okay, my wife introduced me
to this these uh Jeffrey Starr is a well known
cosmetics designer. Uh. In this company manufactures a ton of
different cosmetics they put out. I'm gonna use their incorrect terminology.
(13:33):
I apologize to anybody who knows this stuff. But they
put out a makeup kit called Conspiracy and genuinely had
cool design and my wife happened to get one. UM.
But they were in crazy demand because these are these
are YouTubers. They're like social social media influence influencers whatever
(13:58):
that is, UM, and they are so popular. When they
got together and put this thing together, it they sold
out of everything that broke the Internet a little bit.
It's fascinating the way that that those two worlds are connecting.
And we can maybe talk about that a little later.
But social media influencers and the cosmetics industry. Oh yeah,
do you have I was hoping for a second math
(14:20):
that you would you would have a show and health
segment for us. But I'll just I'll check it out later.
Maybe I can go get it. I think she still
got it somewhere. I'll go have to look. Well, we'll
find it. Maybe maybe they'll sponsor us at some point.
Who knows they don't need us. They probably don't know that.
I don't think they do. But uh, but you're right,
(14:42):
there is a fascinating intersection, and this is this industry
is all about these fascinating, at times disturbing intersections. I
mentioned that liminal space earlier when we talked about oral cosmetics. Uh,
it's it's weird, and it goes back to the idea
of affecting the body structure or function being efficacious in
(15:03):
some physiological way. So any any ingredient used in a
cosmetic falls under that f D A definition that that
you gave us earlier. But what about products that have
a physiological claim? Toothpaste is a weird example. Sometimes toothpaste
is a cosmetic, but if toothpaste says that it does
(15:27):
a specific thing to alter your body, such as protecting
you from cavities or whitening your teeth, then the f
d A may classify it as a drug. So people
are still working out what this means and when, and
and it's an important question. I mean, makeup cosmetics are
(15:48):
a vital thing. There are numerous fascinating works on the
history of makeup alone. I'm sad we can't dive into
more of it. Uh. And there are thousands and thousands
of experts just like the ones you mentioned and back.
There innumerable tutorial sites. There are so many people working
in this industry or associated with the manufacturer, the sale,
(16:11):
the transportation of makeup. But it turns out that makeup
itself maybe covering something up. Get it, There may be
something sinister beneath the beautiful surface of all that concealer. Yes,
it may be concealed. Oh god, we're we have an
(16:33):
abundance of puns and embarrassment of makeup on abundance, an abundance. Yes,
break out the blush everyone and take some time. Let's
all let's all put our faces on as they say,
we'll pause for a word from our sponsor and we'll
be right back. Here's where it gets crazy. Makeup has problems,
(17:05):
no two ways about it. One of the biggest ones
I think a lot of ore, a lot of our
fellow listeners instantly thought of. As you saw the title
for this episode is animals play a big role. Uh,
and we have some returning tragedies to the stage today.
It's foreshadowing. Yeah, animal testing. I mean I think we've
(17:27):
we've we've all seen fern Gully, The Last rain Forest.
Remember Robin Williams character the bat Batty, who does a
really great rap talking about being an animal test subject
in laboratories for cosmetic departments. That's the thing. It's a
big deal, is the long standing arguments we made that
testing makeup ingredients on animals is a necessary evil. Um
(17:51):
because you know, imagine the fallout if there was some
kind of skin cream that hit the market and then
gave people insane hives or rashes or or worse. Um.
So this in mind, many of these products have been
tested on animals, and Ben correct me if I'm wrong.
We're literally talking about like a lab where somebody puts
lipstick on a bunny rabbit. Is that basically? Is it?
(18:12):
Is it that? Am I oversimplifying it? What? What does
this look like? It's changed a lot over the years,
and there are a lot of different examples of it applications,
and you know, you don't have to necessarily, like if
we're taking lipstick, for example, you don't have to necessarily
place it on an animal's lips to see if it
does the thing. You can place it just on skin
(18:33):
essentially of certain species to see if it's going to
have a reaction. Yeah, the testing is much worse than uh,
literal lipstick on a pig. Ha ha. That's from my
old English teachers and lovers of cliches. Yeah, when it
comes to the makeup in the animal world, there are
two primary issues. Animal products used as ingredients and animal testing.
(18:55):
There's still a big deal. Different countries have their own
sets of laws about this. There's not like some U
n declaration about whether or not you should test this
stuff on animals and how you should do it. In
the US, uh, the Federal Food, Drug and Cosmetic Act,
which is created and overseen by the f d A,
(19:17):
prohibits the sale of what they call adulterated cosmetics, but
they don't require the animal tests be conducted to demonstrate
that a cosmetic is safe. Instead, they kick the responsibility
to the manufacturer, saying that the manufacturer has to UH
perform whatever testing is necessary. Compare that to a country
(19:41):
like China, where the government conducts mandatory animal tests on
every single imported cosmetic product, doesn't matter what it is.
The government can also conduct animal tests on items that
have been pulled from any store shelf. The European Union
has had a ban on uh types of animal testing
(20:02):
and marketing and things were tested on animals since back
in two thousand and thirteen, so for seven years. And
then there's a laundry list of other countries that fall
somewhere in the middle they passed similar laws against animal testing. Um,
they're like some states have passed laws, like California or
different states in Brazil. So it's all over the place. Now.
(20:27):
To answer your question you asked earlier, what kinds of
tests are we talking about? Well, what kind of animals
are used in testing this? This is gonna bother a
lot of people. They're typically cute animals. They're mice, rats, rabbits,
guinea pigs, uh and they're they're used because they are
(20:47):
mammals and they have similarities with humans broadly speaking. So
the idea is that if we expose an animal that's
enough like us to a substance, then we'll be able
to bring dicked what will possibly happen to a human
who is exposed to this substance. So these tests are
tests can be pretty gruesome. Like you were talking about
(21:09):
Matt's skin and eye irritation test. That's where they'll shave
an animal skin and they'll expose its skin to a
certain chemical or substance or product. Usually it's the chemical
or the substance. This is usually before they get to
like the name brand stage and then uh. These substances
can also be dripped, like they'll restrain a rabbit for instance,
(21:33):
and they'll drip in a substance to its eye, to
the idea being that will see how the rabbit's eye
reacts and that will teach us what happens to a
human eye if somebody gets you know, mascara in their
eye or something. Yeah, and that's so that that's what
it's testing. If it gets on your skin or just
if you're using a normal use, or if it gets
(21:54):
in your eyes. But other times they are testing to
see what happens if a human ingests this chemical. So
if if maybe a child or an adventurous human gets
ahold of some of this makeup that has this chemical
in it and they just down a whole bunch of it,
how much does it take to cause serious harm to
(22:14):
this person, to cause what would be considered a poisoning,
or to even cause death to this person. So they
do it to the animals until it happens. Is it?
Animal testing illegal in a lot of places in the
States though, right, Yeah, As we said earlier, California is
probably the best example of that, But it does, it
(22:36):
does go state to state because again the f d
A has put the onus of responsibility on the manufacturer
to test what you need. And and that's uh, that's
how we get to go back to the test. That's
how we get things like you're describing that lethal dose test. Uh.
This this is similar to those tests you hear about
(22:59):
a sugar substitute, for instance, causing cancer and rats, uh
and force feeding stuff like at what threshold of ingestion
will insert things here give you cancer or cause birth defects?
But also like a lot of these companies obviously manufacture
(23:19):
their products in other countries, and there are different laws
in other countries. And I was just looking around, googling
around a little bit, and apparently in China, full on
animal testing is is still a thing, and companies like
est Lauder, Clinique, Mary kay Um, it's Mabeling brands, you know,
big brands, uh, still do full on animal testing in China. Yeah,
(23:42):
because it's the law they have to in China. So
uh there. You know, you can find a lot of
stats on this from various places. Institutions that admittedly have agendas,
like the Humane Society, I mean, it's their job to
be kind of biased in this regard because they want
(24:02):
to they advocate for the humane treatment of animals. So
according to the Humane Society, these animals are often killed
at the end of a testing process, typically bias phyxiation,
having their next broken, or being decapitated. Opponents of animal
testing argue one that it's unnecessarily cruel, but they also
(24:24):
point out that in many cases, the results of these
tests may not be near as accurate as we we
might want to believe. Different species respond differently to the
same chemicals. You know what, I mean like, you can
eat chocolate, but your dog probably shouldn't, right, And dogs
and humans are very similar, uh, and so results from
(24:45):
these tests may not always be relevant to humans. They
can overestimate or more dangerously underestimate possible hazardous effects for people.
So at the moment, there are a series of legal
and industry initiatives pushing to ban this kind of practice
(25:06):
and other related practices with UM. As you can tell
by the list of country you mentioned, pretty significant results.
And you know this does seem to be a widespread
thing where people are uncomfortable with this by and large,
UM but you know, outside of even like the pidas
and the humane societies of the world, not a good look.
(25:26):
I think your average person would probably not be okay
with this. But while we're on the subject of animal testing,
what about using animals themselves as ingredients? Well, let's I
do want to be fair and point out one one
thing we missed that we would be remiss if we
didn't say this. Proponents of animal testing do have an
(25:47):
historically solid argument, which is, isn't it better to harm
a non human animal than to risk harming a human being?
I think that's a a debate that I would have
a very hard time siding with and in it's not
because that my dog just barked. I love my dog.
I would never allow anything to happen in tour like that,
(26:08):
and I don't want anything to happen like this to
any other animals. Um, we're just gonna add the dog
barking as color was dr Bankman. It's it's also like,
I mean, you could also throw into the argument, it's
not like these are life saving drugs. These are essentially
what some might consider frivolous or extra or things that
(26:30):
are nice to have. But do we really need this stuff?
You know? I don't know many would say yes, God,
yes we need this, we need this. But you know,
but but I guess what I'm saying is internally just
as a I'm just gonna keep it in because it
really does make sense. Um, it does make sense to me.
The art the proponents of animal testing, their arguments made
complete sense to me. And I don't know how you
(26:53):
could make sure a chemical or a product is safe
unless you had that information, um, you know, for poison control,
for response, especially if you're thinking about a child that
ingests something like, how do you get that data without
this and I guess that's my big question um to
anybody who is completely against animal testing, which I think
(27:15):
I am, but I don't understand how we get that
data without it, So it's like a necessary evil argument
again there, Yeah, and and so this this kind of
why you know, while we're on the subject of animals,
because you set us up here, you know there are
(27:35):
numerous ingredients from animals that are used. And this is
a whole other uh ball of palm aide. I guess
because things changed since the age of Cleopatra and Beatle lipstick.
But maybe they didn't change as much as we might assume,
because let's consider people who practice a vegan lifestyle. By lifestyle,
(28:01):
we mean people who want to avoid what they see
as exploitation of animals in any possible sense. If you
practice this lifestyle, then it's crucial to know which types
of makeup or which brands of personal care products use
animal ingredients. And these ingredients this is what I was
(28:21):
talking about with a returning star. These ingredients include things
that may not sound like they come from animals when
you read them in like your list of ingredients. Retinal
is found in anti aging products. Estrogen. This is the
weird fact that I learned for today. Estrogen is obtained
(28:42):
often by extracting urine from pregnant horses. Doesn't really, I guess,
hurt the horses. It's just, uh, it probably weirds them out.
You know, I can understand being weirded out by that. Uh.
Ambergris is one you know, that's a waxy substance the
lines the stomachs of whales. And it's not used for
(29:05):
like your skin. It's used because it helps scent stay
in perfume. That's and that's a that's an historical thing
that's still used to day. A returning guest is squaling,
which we mentioned in an earlier episode. We're talking about
possible coronavirus vaccine and the deaths of sharks because squalenes
(29:29):
used in vaccines. We mentioned it's used in cosmetics. It's
extracted from the livers of sharks in a way that
is not super pleasant for the sharks. Uh. And then
it's added to I makeup and lipstick. Yeah, it's really strange.
And those are not all of the animal products that
can be found in in some cosmetics. Yeah, no way, um. Yeah,
(29:53):
And and and as you can tell just by what
Ben said, I mean these can be derived in a
lot of different ways, from extracting urine or from extracting
essentially livers. Right, it's um, there's a there's a wide
range of how much harm you're actually doing to an
animal individually in the process to get it. But also
(30:15):
when you're using an animal as a product like this,
it generally doesn't bode well for the animals well being afterwards,
no matter how you're getting it. Yeah, And the burden
of education is on you as the consumer. It's on
us as the end users. You're not going to uh,
You're you're not gonna go to your local uh makeup
(30:36):
store or something and see like, uh see an advertisement
for foundation that says we proudly use animal products. Here
they are with a picture of the animal or something
on there. That's that's just not the kind of pr
they're looking for. Now with more sally now more than
percent more squaling, uh and uh. You can, however, be
(31:00):
empowered by your own research. You can find multiple resources online,
multiple studies and databases indicating whether animals are used in
a given product, and companies are transparent parent about this.
You just have to ask, uh and they'll you know,
you'll be able to find usually whether this is for
(31:20):
testing purposes or whether it's as a source of an ingredient.
The testing purpose thing, again, as as I said earlier,
depends on the laws of a given region. So because
of that, because of this pastiche of laws, this can
all be completely legal, it can all be above board.
(31:42):
It doesn't. Uh, it's not like some cartel conspiracy necessarily.
And because of that, the decision to choose the cosmetics
you want to use is it remains a personal rather
than a legal matter. But regardless of what sort ingredients
or testing or involved makeup, and the fashion industry overall
(32:06):
has another secret, quite a dirty one, and that's pollution. Yes,
been literally dirty. M I love just that we're making
these concrete connections to words in this episode, and they
are puns, but they're also just exactly what we're talking
about here. Um, I guess we just have to talk
(32:28):
about something. What happens when an industry starts out as
pretty small, right that It's not like it's not like
the coal industry or the oil industry began as a
giant behemoth, right, or any other industry anything. Really, it
always starts starts small and it has to, that's just
the nature of it. But it begins to balloon in
(32:49):
balloon and more people are doing and more people are manufacturing,
more people are enjoying whatever the service or the product is,
and it just at some point it gets too big, right,
And when it's once it once, it becomes too big.
And that's that's my judgment, right, too big. Um, there
are going to be negative effects on everyone, because there's
(33:12):
going to be a negative effect on environments. You know,
both in in small areas right and controlled areas, you're
gonna have really bad effects there, but also overall to
the entire planet, there could be negative effects. Yes. Funny,
even in like you know, podcasting, we always talk about
scaling and like you know, starting from a smaller company
and then launching way more shows and etcetera, etcetera. And
(33:33):
I was thinking, like, oh, we're kind of lucky because
we're in sort of a zero pollution business. We don't
make products that like can end up in landfills. But
even that, like you know that when you scale on
that level, you start to having to add more server
capacity or like more computers, and then that can lead
to ways downstream. It's just interesting anytime. Just to your point, Matt,
that an industry balloons in this way, there's gonna be
(33:55):
collateral damage. And with the fashion industry, where things are
so seasonal, it's very easy to generate a massive amount
of waste, you know, on the clothing side of it alone,
let alone the come be cos maad X, the packaging,
all the plastics. We've been talking about that too much lately,
but it's absolutely a thing. Just to put this out
there before we move on. I would say that depending
(34:17):
on how you are listening to our voices right now,
we could be said to be creating noise pollution just
saying this is true, right because so many people uh
only only rolled down local main street with this going
through the subwoofers. So is that you rolling down Rodeo
(34:38):
Drive listening to this right now? Good shotgun? Yeah, So
so this is uh, this is a good point, Matt.
I would also say, we're talking to the point about podcasting.
We're talking about hidden cost right as it was often
as it would often be described in economics, Uhid, environmental
(35:00):
cost of something like podcasting would be, uh, the fact
that the technology is reliant on rare earth metals, you know, Uh,
the both for the creators and the audience. Uh, the
fact that plastic is used in the devices, the fact
that we're powered by electricity, right, and where is the
(35:21):
electricity generated? You know, you're right, And and all the
servers that are holding all the files that are being
sent across the world. Boy, there's this is the worse
than we thought all and the world of cosmetics, in
the world of fashion is no different. You know, there
is a really compelling argument that, uh, and I don't
(35:45):
want to sound jaded, but that an industry passed, any
industry past a certain threshold of size, uh, does endanger
what we call the commons, right, the public things and resources. So,
like we said, plastic, the personal care industry is like
ballpark five hundred billion dollars worth of stuff a year.
(36:10):
And and think about think about how much it relies
on plastic. Shampoo, body wash, lipstick, mess scary cases, deodorant.
You don't see this stuff in a ton of like
glass containers. The vast majority of these products are more
often than not sold in plastic containers, not all, but
a ton of them. Yeah, it's sort of the same
as with recycled plastic. We talked about how Um, it
(36:32):
becomes you pay a premium for getting goods made of
recycled plastic because it costs more to make. And it's
the same with more luxury goods. I mean perfume, like
fancy bottle of perfume from Gucci or you know, something
like that will still come in a glass bottle. Uh,
fancy soaps that you get bespoke type soaps on Pinterest
or other sites like that. You know they're gonna come
(36:52):
in bars and they're in crazy shapes and have like
wood chips inside of them and stuff rexfoliation. But yeah,
mass produced, that's the beauty of mass production. That is
for everybody. Everyone can afford to have these things, or
maybe in the past perfume would only be available for
those with lots of money. Um. But in order to
do that, you have to make the packaging cheaper and
(37:13):
easier to mass produce. Yeah. And you know, a lot
of a lot of what's seen as luxurious today, there's
a bit of nostalgia to it. There's a retro factor.
We're selling a concept as much as we're selling a product, right. Ultimately,
all advertising is selling an idea more so than a
tangible object or even a service. So that stuff you're
(37:37):
describing hearkens back to the not too distant past when
soap came in a bar form and perfume was luxurious.
Someone had to go out and scrape the inside of
a whale stomach. Yeah, they also have some class glass
or metal bottle. Well, no metal, but I have glass bottles. Uh.
And and hair care was packaged, you know, in little
(37:58):
tins and little jars. And now you can see you
can still see that stuff because it does it does
feel more elevated. Right, This isn't just your your plastic
store brand. Uh, shampoo or flippowder or whatever. I don't
know if flipowder is a cosmetic, it's probably a drug
(38:18):
if it fixes something. I want to see more glass
shampoo bottles just like up the antie when you're using
it in the shower, Like, do not drop this shampoo?
That's right? Wow, whenever having the soap on a rope
to guys, I think they we should bring that back.
Would that be a nostalgia thing? I'm pretty sure it's
still available in several novelty stores and places across the country.
(38:42):
Are they shaped like naughty things? Oh? I don't. I
don't know what they're shaped like I just know there's
ropes with soaps. There's a shop in the United Kingdom
that for some reason was obsessed with a number of
years ago called Labor and Wait, and they they sell
this kind of nostalgic stuff. They sell like cardboard boxes
(39:05):
of soap flakes and things like that. But but to
your point, to your point, Matt, this, I didn't even
think about that. That is such a compelling reason for
the use of plastick and shampoo bottle. I mean the
household injuries alone, honestly, so many people would hurt themselves.
But but but I totally here with the tin thing, right,
(39:26):
that's that's coming back. I've seen in several places where
it's a shampoo bar essentially. It'll come in a tin
or something, or it'll just be a shampoo bar that
stand alone. You put it in your hair, Okay, I
didn't mean just rub the bar across your head. You
gotta get a good lad. That going get a good
lad and then yeah, or like you know, palm aids
(39:48):
and stuff. Things that are sort of retro a lot
of times will come in tins or or or glass
jars because it's part of the vibe it's part of
like the the optics of the product. You know, again,
we're selling an idea as much as we're selling a product.
And how how did how did we get here? Well?
After World War One, the US became the most prolific
(40:13):
producer of personal care beauty products and also the biggest consumer.
And part of that is, uh, not that the US
was super special or had the you know, some federal
mandate to become this titan. It's because Europe was recovering
from a massive war, and things like, uh, things like
(40:34):
popularizing different esoteric or niche beauty products took a little
bit of an understandable back seat. Uh. There's a there's
a great article by writer named Alejandra Burunda in National
Geographic that examines the history here and and also the
(40:55):
rise of plastic. Here's a quote. During the war, the
military had imposed strict hygiene codes as a way to
prevent disease from spreading amongst the troops, and when those
soldiers returned home, they brought with them in grained habits
of washing, shaving, and toothbrushing. By the mid nineteen twenties,
a whole industry of personal care popped up in the
(41:17):
Lever company, which would later become Unilever, the major multinational
personal care product company, kicked off an ad campaign outlining
the damage body odor could do to one's career and
social prospects. What does that remind me of? What does
that prep Yeah, bernh These doctors say, the body odor
(41:45):
that you're sporting is really not going to be great
for you. So you should your job opportunity stink literally, yeah,
somewhere around here right right, And uh in what I
love about the that's written is there's this there's this
strange kind of implicit implication that before people came back
(42:08):
from World War One, no one was washing and shaving
or brushing their teeth. That's not true, but but this
military regimen, you know, became popularized and normalized. And at
that very same time, remember again, Hollywood is exploding. So
now we see these actors that we love, we worship,
(42:29):
these modern celebrities. We want to look like them. We
want to know what they use for a face cream,
we want to know what, uh you know, what they
put on their armpits before they go to a job interview.
So it's big business. And then when plastics come out,
this enables the industry to accelerate even more. Of course,
(42:49):
the beauty industry immediately jumps on plastic. How could you not.
It's amazing for this sort of stuff. It's durable, it's light,
it can Uh, as someone said early, you're it can scale.
So uh. That trend continues. Honestly, that trend continues largely
unabated in the modern day. There are steps. People are
(43:10):
taking steps to slow it down, of course and look
towards sustainability. And we'll find out why they're doing that
in just a minute. And it's a depressing answer, but yes,
plastic skiing because it works. Yeah, And it's not to
say this might not change over the next couple of
years because there, as we've seen, you know, with plastics,
there are some large players taking steps to combat the
(43:31):
plastic problem, like we talked about on that episode and
with Lego um pivoting to using paper to contain their
tiny plastic pieces. Yes, but it's step in the right direction.
But in the cosmetics universe, Loureale is a giant. UM
is aiming to make a of their packaging reusable, refillable
which I love, and or compostable um. And they also
(43:58):
are I wouldn't go so far as to stay committing,
but they would. Essentially, their goal is to source fifty
of that packaging from recycled materials. That's really good news.
And in addition to plastic, there are other cosmetic and
personal care products that actually can contain toxic chemicals that
the environment doesn't know what to do with. They can't
(44:19):
break them down, they they can create runoff that goes
into water supplies, um drain into rivers, infiltrate the water system.
It's bad news. So a whole another side of of this,
of this discussion, and that's just one of the many
aspects um that are difficult when it comes to pollution
(44:40):
and the world of fashion and cosmetics. And we're gonna
get into more of those when we returned from a
quick sponsor break. Yes, we've returned. There's yeah. There is
another facet to this, to the world of fashion and
our own beyond makeup, and it's one that many of
(45:03):
us have probably heard about in recent years. It's the
idea often reported that the fashion industry clothing in particular,
generates a great deal of pollution and waste. You may
recall hearing in particular breathless somewhat hyperbolic headlines claiming the
(45:23):
fashion industry is the second most bloting industry in the world.
There's like oil and then the clothes you like, and
that's a bummer, right. Uh, But but to find the truth,
we did some digging and there's a there's a great
article by an author named Alden Wicker writing for an
(45:44):
outfit called Eco Cult, And Uh, what what I love
about this if if Alden you happen to be listening,
is that you specifically say, don't go quoting me and
say that Alden said this on Eco Cult. But we
looked at your math and it's solid and it makes
an important distinction. Here. There's a thing called the Global
(46:07):
Fashion Agenda. In they partnered with a consulting group called
the Boston Consulting Group, and they wanted to do some
analysis and see whether there was truth to that claim.
They published this thing called the Pulse of the Fashion
Industry Report, and in that they found that the fashion
industry itself was responsible for the emission of one point
(46:31):
seven billion tons of c O two in. But that
is only four point three percent of the overall thirty
nine point nine billion tons of carbon emissions that the
US overall put out, so that's very far from second.
(46:52):
That makes it the tenth most polluting industry. Other things
beat at agriculture, transportation, all of all of the Captain
plane at villains. Basically, I I apologize when I did
not get a chance to look at this article. Is
it just relating to the US? Do we know? Or
(47:13):
is it is it global? Like? Um? Because I'm just
imagining all this fashion industry and all the you know,
different different plants that are producing all the stuff that's
used in fashion that are across the world in very
specific places. Because I'm it just makes you wonder if
they're looking at emissions that are actually taking place on
(47:33):
US soil, or if they're looking at all of the
emissions that the industry gives out. And there's that intersection again, right,
because these are global supply chains. If we look at
the emissions just in the US, and that's an excellent
question where that stat is centered, Uh, then we're not
looking at the emissions made by factories where many of
these pieces of clothing are manufactured. Uh, this industry, there
(47:59):
is there is another there's a more global snap snapshot,
a snack shot. Sorry guys, Uh, there's Uh, let's keep
it ahead. I like snack shot, start using that, but
there's there's a more global snapshot here. In August of
this year. Just last month, the same outfit, the Global
Fashion Agenda, partnered with another returning guest to our show,
(48:22):
the consulting group Mackenzie, which is a very powerful, very weird,
scary thing. Efficient efficient. Yes, yes, they are efficient. Uh.
They got together and they did a new estimate. They
calculated a new estimate, and they found that the fashion
(48:46):
industry contributes to overall four percent of greenhouse gas in
in the overall in the world. And there's a thing
that makes these numbers weird and significant. That's what we've
been kind of day seen around. The fashion industry is
an an aggregate industry. It's it's a culmination of multiple
(49:09):
other related industries, some that are obvious and some not
so much. That's right. I mean, think about the supply
chain of what goes into fashion. You know, there's agriculture involved.
We've got cotton, agricultural product. We've got uh, the fossil
fuels that are required to ship these raw materials to
(49:31):
the factories where there then spun into the material that
is then used to actually make the clothing. UM. Polyester
a durable fabric uh kind of maligned, but it's used
a lot, even if you don't know it because it's durable,
but it's made from plastic that's an additive in and electricity, leather,
(49:51):
you know, livestock is involved in part of the supply chain.
And there's just so many other industries that really play
like shipping all of this stuff that play a huge
role in here. And there's waste at every step of
the process. UM. So in terms of waste, the fashion
industry is responsible for ninety two million tons of solid
waste per year and that's across the entire planet. And
(50:14):
that represents four percent of the two point one two
billion tons of waste dumped each year. And that's even
more than incredibly toxic E waste who would be like
electronic components that are discarded uh and more than twice
as much as supermarkets uh create food waste. UM. And
(50:34):
that one in particular never sits right with me. And
I have a thing to bring up when we get
to UM some of the actual waste of products that
comes from the fashion industry. Yeah, there's definitely stuff there,
you guys. I never thought about plastic buttons and components
for garments and Chloe, I never thought about the amount
(50:56):
of plastic that exists just due to those things. Think
about that, the shipping constant container of Lego parts that's
spilled into the ocean, you know, I mean buttons would
be probably shipped to be a whole shipping container full
of millions of buttons and tiny little you know what
else would they be? A little you know, a little
kutman is a little like like highlight things like plastic zippers, aglets. Uh,
(51:23):
you know, which is a totally unnecessary word that I
love in English? Is that what that has been? The
little piece at the end of hoodie strings? That's correct? Yea.
So that's that's my show and tell. Not quite a
conspiracy makeup kit, but you know we're working semi live. Uh,
you're right, right, right, Uh. Most people listening to this
(51:45):
are probably wearing some form of plastic on the person.
You know, this stuff is everywhere, as we said, so
that's kind of the lay of the land. And so
our next question should logically be what are cosmetic and
fashion manufacturers doing to address these issues? To their credit,
multiple manufacturers have taken steps to combat one or more
(52:08):
of the specific issues described above. Makers of cosmetics have
responded to some of the demands of what are called
cruelty free movements, you know, and large clothing companies have
meticulously analyzed their supply chains. I'll say it often in
response to an outcry about exploitative labor or you know,
(52:32):
dodgy environmental practices. But it's good. It means your voice
matters right right, right again, it's empowerment. Uh. And in
some cases they have instituted sustainability programs of one sort
or another, like Loureal's goal to use more recycled substances. However,
(52:53):
at the same time, there's another factor at play. Some
companies some of the same come but he's actually or
accelerating this trend of pollution due in part to a
phenomenon I think everybody was waiting to hear us say,
fast fashion, the the idea that you can you don't
(53:14):
have to buy something and keep it for twenty five years.
You can buy the hottest look of that season, of
that moment, and then you can move on to the next.
It will be affordable, it will be disposal. That's right,
because the previous version of that would have been luxury
goods that were so expensive there would be a resale
market for them. Even if it's not you, You're gonna
(53:36):
sell it, you know, for hundreds of dollars potentially if
it's like a Gucci item, then maybe it's two seasons old,
but there's still a market for that, whereas like something
from Zara or H and M. You know, less of
an aftermarket for stuff like that. But that's the part
that drives me insane. I mean, every year, the world
consumes more than eighty billion items of clothing, and the
(53:58):
average individual in the US toss is eighty two pounds
of textile goods out each year, which adds up to
eleven million tons for the entire US. But like, in
the same way that waste, food waste makes no sense
to me because there there's the organizations that should be
able to funnel that to people that really need it.
Shouldn't that also be the case for a lot of this, uh,
(54:18):
clothing waste? Oh god, yeah, I was thinking about putting
this in or if we should save it for a
different episode, but it's it's it's a terrible point and
a very good one. Uh. A lot of times that
clothing that you donate if you live in a Western country,
that is supposed to go help other people who need clothing.
A lot of times that has a negative effect on
(54:41):
the population people are attempting to help. It can kill
local textile businesses because they can't compete with palette after
palette of free T shirts and pants and so on.
It's just it's the sustainable price versus virtually free. And
a lot of that stuff, by the way, doesn't get
straight up donated to people in need. It goes to
(55:03):
someone who sells it. So there's there are different rent
seekers and opportunists at at every corner of this and
and and you're right there, there is a lot of waste.
One time, I don't want to get too personal here,
but one time in our fair metropolis of Atlanta, I
almost got arrested for giving away bread, uh that that
(55:26):
I got day old bread from a bakery. I was
walking around like some kind of cut rate late summer
Santa Claus with a big old plastic bag of old
day old croissants and facasha and so on, and handing
it out to people who wanted bread and uh, and
the police found me. What do they say to you?
(55:47):
You have to have a license to give away bread. Yeah, man,
if it's if it's a food product. There are now
crazy regulations and stipulations. I might be poisoning people. I
don't have any kind of like health inspection, you know
what I mean. So I guess I guess it makes sense.
Been thinking about doing that right now, just having a
(56:10):
bag of bighetts and instead of you know, doing things
that you know, well known comedians talking about with bags
of bighetts, you are just taking them around and just
handing them to people, even if you've got gloves on,
even if you're masked up. I'm just trying to imagine
that I just wanted to walk around with snacks and
I didn't think about it, you know. So it's technically
illegal to like give someone your left over our food
(56:33):
or something like if you have, you know, a doggie
bag and then the homeless individual ask you for money
and instead you say, here, take my food. Is that
Could you get in trouble for doing that? That's a
good question. I would like to think that most people
wouldn't stop you from doing that because it's just a
basic gesture of human kindness. Maybe they would stop you
(56:54):
if it were if like there were reports of someone
purposefully poisoning people that way, and they were on the lookout.
But I don't think anybody's gotten stopped. You may have
been told perhaps don't feed these people, or you're not
helping them, you're accelerating a problem or something, but I
don't I don't see someone getting arrested for it, you know, Yeah, ye,
(57:17):
arrested seems a little harsh, but maybe find or warned
unless you're you're a chronic giver of your food. Oh yeah, well,
I guess it just depends on where you are, Like
what city, I bet you it changes, um city, country,
local area and all that. Let let us know your
stance on that, folks, Let us know your stance on
(57:39):
whether or not there are I give your own food,
give out your food laws on the books where in
your neck of the global woods. I do want to
say that that that statistic we just mentioned the idea
like a lot of people listening in to the US
are thinking, did I really throw out eighty two pounds
(58:04):
of clothing last year? We have to consider Yeah, that
average sounds crazy because we're talking about an average of
three eight something million people, So they're probably you know,
like any other average of that size. There's a very
small group at the top that is just like, why
would you wear the same clothes twice? What am I
(58:25):
a farmer? You know? People like there There are people
who live very different lives than most of the other people.
And then there are people on the other end of
the spectrum who are like, why would I own two shirts?
I have one Torso there's there's a lot of variants between.
But what's happening in in a way that's affecting everybody
in that span everybody who buys clothing, is that just
(58:49):
like the Just just like when the price of mirrors
dropped and they became more affordable, the price of what's
regarded as high fashion is dropping. That's a good thing,
it would seem for consumers. It means we hand buy
more stuff, and so we do. In fact, we buy
four more stuff like this than we did years ago.
(59:11):
And we don't wear it forever, of course, and it
doesn't magically disappear just because we can't see it. We're adults,
we have object permanence. We know things exist outside of
our vision. This stuff all goes somewhere, yeah, it does.
And just remember that dropping price of your fashion has
(59:31):
a great effect on your pockets, but it has a
terrible effect on the people attempting to manufacture it so
quickly in all of those places across the world who
are furiously trying to make as many pairs of pants
as possible as they can for almost nothing. So then
what should consumers do? Should we Should we posse up
(59:53):
and say we're going to collectively support more sustainable supply chains,
even if it's more expensive. Should we abby our government leaders,
as you point out Matt as an excellent observation that
does that does result and change, you know. Or should
we just now this is tough to say in a
capitalist economy. Should we just buy fewer things? Should we
(01:00:14):
just buy less stuff? I don't know. You can't do that.
I can't do that. You gotta buy everything, buy more
things that that Amazon Prime account you've got is just
sitting there waiting America the fire sale. Right, everything must go. Uh,
here's here's the fact of the matter. So companies are companies.
(01:00:36):
They're going to follow the most profitable business model. So logically,
these problems are a type of stuff. They don't want
you to know until solving these problems becomes more profitable
than ignoring them. And that's again, that's not to say
fashion companies are some kind of League of evil mutants,
league of well dressed supervillains or something. It's just that
(01:01:00):
your favorite fashion line is like any other business, They're
gonna ultimately follow wherever the bottom line leads. And there
really is no easy answer, as we alluded to earlier,
when just thinking about something like animal testing. That's one
tiny little aspect of this. All of these are our
debates really, and I think that's why important, why it's
important for us to talk about them. So we don't
(01:01:22):
want the conversation to end here. We don't want this
to just be you know, something that Ben and Nolan
I talked about and you and Paul listen to Mission control.
Of course, um, we wanted to be you know, let's
come up with some great ideas. Let's talk about this stuff.
You can begin the conversation with us or just amongst
you know, friend maybe family member, just talk about some
of this stuff. If you want to talk to us,
(01:01:44):
you can reach us on social media on Twitter and
Facebook we are Conspiracy Stuff. On Instagram we are Conspiracy
Stuff Show. And if you would like to uh talk
to us in semi person. Then please give us a
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(01:02:07):
reverb met and uh, you have three minutes. Let's know
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whether you are comfortable with us using your voice, sand
or name on the air. And if you don't want
to do that stuff, you can head on over to
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(01:02:33):
There's gonna be tons of videos there. It's gonna be
mostly us at least in the near future, talking like this,
but with cameras so you can look at us and
we can hang out that way. But there are other
surprises coming to so I don't know. Just make sure
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leave a friendly comment in the comments. Uh, and take
(01:02:54):
that same attitude and and bring it to iTunes and
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of up the profile of it in the magical Apple algorithm. Um.
You can also find us online. Here's where it gets crazy.
Are delightful Facebook group. Yeah, and uh, you know, yes,
we're gonna be honest. We're a little old school. We
(01:03:16):
still call it iTunes, just call a Apple podcast. I
don't know, so it's a learning curve. Yeah, but while
you're on the internet. If you hate phone calls, you
get it. You hate social media. We also clearly get
that you can always contact us, regardless of the time
and day, regardless of what you're wearing. Uh, we want
(01:03:39):
to hear from you. You can hit us up at
our good old fashioned email address where we are conspiracy
at iHeart radio dot com. Yeah. Stuff they don't want
(01:04:06):
you to know is a production of I heart Radio.
For more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the i
heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to
your favorite shows.
From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is
riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or
learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A
production of I Heart Radio. Hello, welcome back to the show.
(00:26):
My name is Matt, my name is Null. They call
me Ben. We are joined as always with our super
producer Paul. Mission Control deconds. Most importantly, you are you,
You are here, and that makes this stuff they don't
want you to know. This is part two of what
turned out to be a continuing series on fashion Dark
(00:47):
Side of Fashion UH. In our previous episode, we explored
the troubling underbelly of the fashion industry. We touched on
problems such as exploitation of labor, legislative loopholes around the world,
and cases of continuing outright slavery. In today's episode, we're
going to look at another aspect of the fashion industry.
(01:11):
It's effect on the natural world, which is something I
think escapes a lot of folks. I know it escaped
to me before we really dove into this. But let's
start with makeup, which is fascinating in itself. Here are
the facts. Yeah, the first use of early cosmetics generally
(01:31):
goes back to ancient Egypt, and it's not uncommon to
find Egyptian tombs that actually have makeup canisters or some
kind of uh, makeup inside of them. It's kind of
interesting stuff. Um, and Cleopatra, you may have heard this,
she used lipstick. They got it to you from ground
carmine beetles. Yeah, I mean, yeah, you get hues wherever
(01:55):
you can get them. Really, you can still get dies
from animals, you know what I mean. The beetles are
still are still a part of this industry exactly. And
you know, and that was very striking to use the beetles.
Cleopatra's used of the beatles was very striking because a
lot of other women at the time, It's just anyone
(02:16):
who was using makeup would have mixed clay essentially with
water to get coloring on their lips, which a red
clay kind of situation, perhaps seasonal. Yeah, yeah, but there
was other stuff that that people used to find color
and to use it on their bodies. Yeah, they were
(02:37):
super ahead of the curve. We're still talking about Egypt,
where um, you could use coal, which was a mix
of metal lead, copper, ash and burnt almond's and surprise, surprise,
wasn't particularly good good for you, good for your complexion, making,
you know, rubbing lead and copper mixtures on your face
probably not the best idea, but it sure looked cool.
(02:58):
Gave you this real irridescent kind of sh any i circles,
and both men and women were all about this style.
They painted these kind of raccoons circles around their eyes,
and the circles of call were meant to ward off
the evil eye, which is a thing you see often
in Egyptian hieroglyphs I'm not mistaken and dangerous spirits and
much like you'll see baseball players and football players with
(03:20):
those big, you know, kind of dark lines under their eyes. Um.
Turns out it's really good at deflecting the sun and
keeping it out of your eyes and keeping it from
it keeps you cooler, essentially, and it may have even
inadvertently helped some of the Egyptians ward off infectious diseases
because even though the lead's not good for you, and
(03:41):
on the one hand, it can kill off bacteria. Um.
But yeah, this wasn't necessarily as much of a thing
that we could see because Egyptians didn't have particularly long
lifespans anyway, they were like the hamsters of civilization. UM.
The it might have actually killed them off if they
continued to wear it, if they had had longer life
expanse Yep, lead is bad for you. It turns out,
(04:05):
as we've seen in the you know, the now infamous
UH studies correlating lead exposure in early childhood two problems
later in life. We talked about the Egyptians a lot
because it's the most is the most commonly known example
of what we call prototype cosmetics. UH. The ancient Greeks
(04:26):
and Romans also painted their faces with powders made up
of various minerals or ground stone. But we can't be
too Egyptian centric or Greco Roman centric, because if you
think about it, cosmetics appear in some form in virtually
every culture. Like we noted in the first part of
(04:49):
the series, UH. Fashion is sometimes dismissed as something purely decorative,
but it's also it can be a powerful statement. And
makeup is the same way as multi double uses across
the span of history, not just uh not just relegated
to the realm of decoration. Uh nol. I really appreciate
(05:09):
you pointing out that Cole served ko h l by
the way, served a practical purpose. Uh. Makeup has and
continues to uh serve as a symbol of religious significance
in some cases, or of social status, like your example,
Matt about the queen getting the good fancy lipstick with
(05:32):
beetles versus you know, the old clay water of the
working class and the prolls. So, just like fashion, of course,
makeup has gone and we'll go through multiple phases. Different
things go in and out of style. The origin story
of modern makeup, cosmetics, personal care products as we understand
(05:54):
it today, really starts at the dawn of the twentieth century.
That's when you see the emergence of things like nail polish,
is lipstick, Mascara's in again what we will call the
modern form and it there are a couple of really weird,
well really fascinating social and technological factors that coincided and
(06:16):
birthed modern makeup or popularized it. Well, yeah, I think
about it. Right around this time, for really the first
time in a popular way, you are probably having a
picture taken a view like a portrait, something that is
up close and personal. It's gonna show everything going on
(06:37):
up here right, So yeah, I mean, I mean seriously,
you'd have to you'd have to really save up your
money if you wanted to get one of these done,
and you'd have to sit there for a long time.
Is to be the one picture you got. This is it,
This is the this is your chance. You gotta make
sure you look the absolute best. It's not like you
(06:58):
take twenty eight of them and then decide, hey, I'm
going to post this to my eighteen hundreds Instagram. And
that that time factor is also why people you don't
see a ton of people smiling in those old photos,
because you would have to do this. We're so for
so very long. You know. I don't know about you guys,
but I grew up. When I was growing up, I
(07:20):
just thought everybody from that time was in a real mood. Totally.
Did I make this up? Or weren't there even devices
that would like hold their heads in place or something
like that, like some kind of little thing that they
could rest I swear to God, I know, for for
the photography that became popular that was like a photo
of a dead body after someone had passed, that kind
(07:41):
of apparatus was created, But I don't know about actual
like regular role a live human photography head bracers or
I don't know what you'd call it, a right, maybe
I'm getting Maybe I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm just
saying I've never heard of. No, I'm gonna go ahead
and come out and say it I'm wrong. You know.
There's something like that that happens though, especially with photographs
(08:06):
of infants, because their heads are really big. So there's
probably a mom or dad who's like, let me drop
of your nogging here. Uh, you don't worry about it,
will be gently prop up in yeah. Uh. The other factor,
another factor is that mirrors, true mirrors we would call them,
(08:27):
became much more affordable, so they were much more common
in the average person's home. But the big one, the
biggest badger in the makeup bag here, is the rise
of the motion picture fundamentally change the world, fundamentally change
uh makeup and the normalization of how people should look.
(08:47):
Because we have to remember that a lot of actors
who came into the early days of motion pictures were
wearing theatrical makeup for live stage. And that's very different
because you want some thing that exaggerates your facial feature.
So even the people way in the cheap seats can
see your emotions and the transformations you go through. Uh,
(09:10):
and that just looks screwy on film because you're really
close up. It's the same with acting styles being different
from stage to film. You have to act very large
and and in order for people to catch the vibes
that you're putting out there, and film you can act
much more daintily and subtly. And by the way, quick amendment,
I was not wrong. It's called a head brace and
(09:31):
it's absolutely a thing. Well there you go, okay, I was.
It's this weird medieval torture device looking thing on a
stand that sits behind you, and you can you can
lengthen or shorten it depending on you know, where you
want your head to be. And it's not like it
like it's a claw or something. It's something you sort
of lean your head back against because do you think
about it, even your neck muscles are gonna get tired
(09:51):
and you might drift from one side to the other,
forward to back. Where this thing just sort of it's
like a fancy head rest on an office chair, only
it's separate and you can't see it in the well, yeah,
I mean that's great. As long as the spirit glue
holds the mustache on your face, then will be okay.
I love it. And those are technological innovations that evolved
(10:13):
in step with this new media is what we're having.
We're having an increasing democratization of media. But it's nothing
like the break deck pace whereat today and fast forward.
Of course, makeup cosmetics are a huge part of this
and today the modern cosmetic industry, which is so huge
(10:34):
that it's tough to even call it a single industry,
is an economic titan. It is a financial leviathan. The
main categories are each you know, industries of their own skincare,
hair care, makeup, perfume, cologne, toiletries, deodorance. Things are called
oral cosmetics, which is an interesting kind of liminal space. Anyway.
(10:59):
Since the early twentieth century, the production of all these products,
beauty and cosmetic products has been controlled by a handful
of corporations that I won't call caballs, but I mean
they're just very huge and very successful. Uh. Some specialized
in these products, like Loreal. Others own a ton of
(11:21):
other things that are not associated with cosmetics, like you know,
Lever or Procter and Gamble, and then there's Este Lauder,
and and and so on. What we're saying is there's
some big fish at the top. And as of eighteen,
the US was considered and still is considered the most
(11:41):
valuable a K profitable beauty personal care market in the world.
In eighteen alone, this industry generated eighty nine point five
billion dollars just in the US in one year. That's
that's incredible. Um. Okay, well, let's talk about what the FDA,
(12:04):
the Food and Drug Administration, has to say. Uh. They
define cosmetics as quote articles intended to be applied to
the human body for cleansing, beautifying, promoting attractiveness, or altering
the appearance without affecting the body's structure or functions. Beautifying
and running attractiveness or two different things. Somehow, I don't
(12:26):
quite understand the difference, but they seem to be important
enough to be listed separately. I don't know. I to me,
that feels like one is for you and one is
for others. That's I don't know if that's correct or not. Um.
But again, we talked about a lot of these things.
We're talking about skin creams, perfumes, all that stuff. Um. Yeah,
but everything to even the shampoo things you may not
(12:47):
think about. UM. As weird as this sounds, there's there's
ocular cosmetics if you think about like context that you
can get specialized and all these other things to make
your eyes all black right right or whatever mostly just black. UM,
it's really interesting stuff. Before we go too much further,
(13:09):
I want to ask, do you guys know two people
named Shane Dawson and Jeffrey Starr and or familiar doesn't
ring a bell for me? Okay, my wife introduced me
to this these uh Jeffrey Starr is a well known
cosmetics designer. Uh. In this company manufactures a ton of
different cosmetics they put out. I'm gonna use their incorrect terminology.
(13:33):
I apologize to anybody who knows this stuff. But they
put out a makeup kit called Conspiracy and genuinely had
cool design and my wife happened to get one. UM.
But they were in crazy demand because these are these
are YouTubers. They're like social social media influence influencers whatever
(13:58):
that is, UM, and they are so popular. When they
got together and put this thing together, it they sold
out of everything that broke the Internet a little bit.
It's fascinating the way that that those two worlds are connecting.
And we can maybe talk about that a little later.
But social media influencers and the cosmetics industry. Oh yeah,
do you have I was hoping for a second math
(14:20):
that you would you would have a show and health
segment for us. But I'll just I'll check it out later.
Maybe I can go get it. I think she still
got it somewhere. I'll go have to look. Well, we'll
find it. Maybe maybe they'll sponsor us at some point.
Who knows they don't need us. They probably don't know that.
I don't think they do. But uh, but you're right,
(14:42):
there is a fascinating intersection, and this is this industry
is all about these fascinating, at times disturbing intersections. I
mentioned that liminal space earlier when we talked about oral cosmetics. Uh,
it's it's weird, and it goes back to the idea
of affecting the body structure or function being efficacious in
(15:03):
some physiological way. So any any ingredient used in a
cosmetic falls under that f D A definition that that
you gave us earlier. But what about products that have
a physiological claim? Toothpaste is a weird example. Sometimes toothpaste
is a cosmetic, but if toothpaste says that it does
(15:27):
a specific thing to alter your body, such as protecting
you from cavities or whitening your teeth, then the f
d A may classify it as a drug. So people
are still working out what this means and when, and
and it's an important question. I mean, makeup cosmetics are
(15:48):
a vital thing. There are numerous fascinating works on the
history of makeup alone. I'm sad we can't dive into
more of it. Uh. And there are thousands and thousands
of experts just like the ones you mentioned and back.
There innumerable tutorial sites. There are so many people working
in this industry or associated with the manufacturer, the sale,
(16:11):
the transportation of makeup. But it turns out that makeup
itself maybe covering something up. Get it, There may be
something sinister beneath the beautiful surface of all that concealer. Yes,
it may be concealed. Oh god, we're we have an
(16:33):
abundance of puns and embarrassment of makeup on abundance, an abundance. Yes,
break out the blush everyone and take some time. Let's
all let's all put our faces on as they say,
we'll pause for a word from our sponsor and we'll
be right back. Here's where it gets crazy. Makeup has problems,
(17:05):
no two ways about it. One of the biggest ones
I think a lot of ore, a lot of our
fellow listeners instantly thought of. As you saw the title
for this episode is animals play a big role. Uh,
and we have some returning tragedies to the stage today.
It's foreshadowing. Yeah, animal testing. I mean I think we've
(17:27):
we've we've all seen fern Gully, The Last rain Forest.
Remember Robin Williams character the bat Batty, who does a
really great rap talking about being an animal test subject
in laboratories for cosmetic departments. That's the thing. It's a
big deal, is the long standing arguments we made that
testing makeup ingredients on animals is a necessary evil. Um
(17:51):
because you know, imagine the fallout if there was some
kind of skin cream that hit the market and then
gave people insane hives or rashes or or worse. Um.
So this in mind, many of these products have been
tested on animals, and Ben correct me if I'm wrong.
We're literally talking about like a lab where somebody puts
lipstick on a bunny rabbit. Is that basically? Is it?
(18:12):
Is it that? Am I oversimplifying it? What? What does
this look like? It's changed a lot over the years,
and there are a lot of different examples of it applications,
and you know, you don't have to necessarily, like if
we're taking lipstick, for example, you don't have to necessarily
place it on an animal's lips to see if it
does the thing. You can place it just on skin
(18:33):
essentially of certain species to see if it's going to
have a reaction. Yeah, the testing is much worse than uh,
literal lipstick on a pig. Ha ha. That's from my
old English teachers and lovers of cliches. Yeah, when it
comes to the makeup in the animal world, there are
two primary issues. Animal products used as ingredients and animal testing.
(18:55):
There's still a big deal. Different countries have their own
sets of laws about this. There's not like some U
n declaration about whether or not you should test this
stuff on animals and how you should do it. In
the US, uh, the Federal Food, Drug and Cosmetic Act,
which is created and overseen by the f d A,
(19:17):
prohibits the sale of what they call adulterated cosmetics, but
they don't require the animal tests be conducted to demonstrate
that a cosmetic is safe. Instead, they kick the responsibility
to the manufacturer, saying that the manufacturer has to UH
perform whatever testing is necessary. Compare that to a country
(19:41):
like China, where the government conducts mandatory animal tests on
every single imported cosmetic product, doesn't matter what it is.
The government can also conduct animal tests on items that
have been pulled from any store shelf. The European Union
has had a ban on uh types of animal testing
(20:02):
and marketing and things were tested on animals since back
in two thousand and thirteen, so for seven years. And
then there's a laundry list of other countries that fall
somewhere in the middle they passed similar laws against animal testing. Um,
they're like some states have passed laws, like California or
different states in Brazil. So it's all over the place. Now.
(20:27):
To answer your question you asked earlier, what kinds of
tests are we talking about? Well, what kind of animals
are used in testing this? This is gonna bother a
lot of people. They're typically cute animals. They're mice, rats, rabbits,
guinea pigs, uh and they're they're used because they are
(20:47):
mammals and they have similarities with humans broadly speaking. So
the idea is that if we expose an animal that's
enough like us to a substance, then we'll be able
to bring dicked what will possibly happen to a human
who is exposed to this substance. So these tests are
tests can be pretty gruesome. Like you were talking about
(21:09):
Matt's skin and eye irritation test. That's where they'll shave
an animal skin and they'll expose its skin to a
certain chemical or substance or product. Usually it's the chemical
or the substance. This is usually before they get to
like the name brand stage and then uh. These substances
can also be dripped, like they'll restrain a rabbit for instance,
(21:33):
and they'll drip in a substance to its eye, to
the idea being that will see how the rabbit's eye
reacts and that will teach us what happens to a
human eye if somebody gets you know, mascara in their
eye or something. Yeah, and that's so that that's what
it's testing. If it gets on your skin or just
if you're using a normal use, or if it gets
(21:54):
in your eyes. But other times they are testing to
see what happens if a human ingests this chemical. So
if if maybe a child or an adventurous human gets
ahold of some of this makeup that has this chemical
in it and they just down a whole bunch of it,
how much does it take to cause serious harm to
(22:14):
this person, to cause what would be considered a poisoning,
or to even cause death to this person. So they
do it to the animals until it happens. Is it?
Animal testing illegal in a lot of places in the
States though, right, Yeah, As we said earlier, California is
probably the best example of that, But it does, it
(22:36):
does go state to state because again the f d
A has put the onus of responsibility on the manufacturer
to test what you need. And and that's uh, that's
how we get to go back to the test. That's
how we get things like you're describing that lethal dose test. Uh.
This this is similar to those tests you hear about
(22:59):
a sugar substitute, for instance, causing cancer and rats, uh
and force feeding stuff like at what threshold of ingestion
will insert things here give you cancer or cause birth defects?
But also like a lot of these companies obviously manufacture
(23:19):
their products in other countries, and there are different laws
in other countries. And I was just looking around, googling
around a little bit, and apparently in China, full on
animal testing is is still a thing, and companies like
est Lauder, Clinique, Mary kay Um, it's Mabeling brands, you know,
big brands, uh, still do full on animal testing in China. Yeah,
(23:42):
because it's the law they have to in China. So
uh there. You know, you can find a lot of
stats on this from various places. Institutions that admittedly have agendas,
like the Humane Society, I mean, it's their job to
be kind of biased in this regard because they want
(24:02):
to they advocate for the humane treatment of animals. So
according to the Humane Society, these animals are often killed
at the end of a testing process, typically bias phyxiation,
having their next broken, or being decapitated. Opponents of animal
testing argue one that it's unnecessarily cruel, but they also
(24:24):
point out that in many cases, the results of these
tests may not be near as accurate as we we
might want to believe. Different species respond differently to the
same chemicals. You know what, I mean like, you can
eat chocolate, but your dog probably shouldn't, right, And dogs
and humans are very similar, uh, and so results from
(24:45):
these tests may not always be relevant to humans. They
can overestimate or more dangerously underestimate possible hazardous effects for people.
So at the moment, there are a series of legal
and industry initiatives pushing to ban this kind of practice
(25:06):
and other related practices with UM. As you can tell
by the list of country you mentioned, pretty significant results.
And you know this does seem to be a widespread
thing where people are uncomfortable with this by and large,
UM but you know, outside of even like the pidas
and the humane societies of the world, not a good look.
(25:26):
I think your average person would probably not be okay
with this. But while we're on the subject of animal testing,
what about using animals themselves as ingredients? Well, let's I
do want to be fair and point out one one
thing we missed that we would be remiss if we
didn't say this. Proponents of animal testing do have an
(25:47):
historically solid argument, which is, isn't it better to harm
a non human animal than to risk harming a human being?
I think that's a a debate that I would have
a very hard time siding with and in it's not
because that my dog just barked. I love my dog.
I would never allow anything to happen in tour like that,
(26:08):
and I don't want anything to happen like this to
any other animals. Um, we're just gonna add the dog
barking as color was dr Bankman. It's it's also like,
I mean, you could also throw into the argument, it's
not like these are life saving drugs. These are essentially
what some might consider frivolous or extra or things that
(26:30):
are nice to have. But do we really need this stuff?
You know? I don't know many would say yes, God,
yes we need this, we need this. But you know,
but but I guess what I'm saying is internally just
as a I'm just gonna keep it in because it
really does make sense. Um, it does make sense to me.
The art the proponents of animal testing, their arguments made
complete sense to me. And I don't know how you
(26:53):
could make sure a chemical or a product is safe
unless you had that information, um, you know, for poison control,
for response, especially if you're thinking about a child that
ingests something like, how do you get that data without
this and I guess that's my big question um to
anybody who is completely against animal testing, which I think
(27:15):
I am, but I don't understand how we get that
data without it, So it's like a necessary evil argument
again there, Yeah, and and so this this kind of
why you know, while we're on the subject of animals,
because you set us up here, you know there are
(27:35):
numerous ingredients from animals that are used. And this is
a whole other uh ball of palm aide. I guess
because things changed since the age of Cleopatra and Beatle lipstick.
But maybe they didn't change as much as we might assume,
because let's consider people who practice a vegan lifestyle. By lifestyle,
(28:01):
we mean people who want to avoid what they see
as exploitation of animals in any possible sense. If you
practice this lifestyle, then it's crucial to know which types
of makeup or which brands of personal care products use
animal ingredients. And these ingredients this is what I was
(28:21):
talking about with a returning star. These ingredients include things
that may not sound like they come from animals when
you read them in like your list of ingredients. Retinal
is found in anti aging products. Estrogen. This is the
weird fact that I learned for today. Estrogen is obtained
(28:42):
often by extracting urine from pregnant horses. Doesn't really, I guess,
hurt the horses. It's just, uh, it probably weirds them out.
You know, I can understand being weirded out by that. Uh.
Ambergris is one you know, that's a waxy substance the
lines the stomachs of whales. And it's not used for
(29:05):
like your skin. It's used because it helps scent stay
in perfume. That's and that's a that's an historical thing
that's still used to day. A returning guest is squaling,
which we mentioned in an earlier episode. We're talking about
possible coronavirus vaccine and the deaths of sharks because squalenes
(29:29):
used in vaccines. We mentioned it's used in cosmetics. It's
extracted from the livers of sharks in a way that
is not super pleasant for the sharks. Uh. And then
it's added to I makeup and lipstick. Yeah, it's really strange.
And those are not all of the animal products that
can be found in in some cosmetics. Yeah, no way, um. Yeah,
(29:53):
And and and as you can tell just by what
Ben said, I mean these can be derived in a
lot of different ways, from extracting urine or from extracting
essentially livers. Right, it's um, there's a there's a wide
range of how much harm you're actually doing to an
animal individually in the process to get it. But also
(30:15):
when you're using an animal as a product like this,
it generally doesn't bode well for the animals well being afterwards,
no matter how you're getting it. Yeah, And the burden
of education is on you as the consumer. It's on
us as the end users. You're not going to uh,
You're you're not gonna go to your local uh makeup
(30:36):
store or something and see like, uh see an advertisement
for foundation that says we proudly use animal products. Here
they are with a picture of the animal or something
on there. That's that's just not the kind of pr
they're looking for. Now with more sally now more than
percent more squaling, uh and uh. You can, however, be
(31:00):
empowered by your own research. You can find multiple resources online,
multiple studies and databases indicating whether animals are used in
a given product, and companies are transparent parent about this.
You just have to ask, uh and they'll you know,
you'll be able to find usually whether this is for
(31:20):
testing purposes or whether it's as a source of an ingredient.
The testing purpose thing, again, as as I said earlier,
depends on the laws of a given region. So because
of that, because of this pastiche of laws, this can
all be completely legal, it can all be above board.
(31:42):
It doesn't. Uh, it's not like some cartel conspiracy necessarily.
And because of that, the decision to choose the cosmetics
you want to use is it remains a personal rather
than a legal matter. But regardless of what sort ingredients
or testing or involved makeup, and the fashion industry overall
(32:06):
has another secret, quite a dirty one, and that's pollution. Yes,
been literally dirty. M I love just that we're making
these concrete connections to words in this episode, and they
are puns, but they're also just exactly what we're talking
about here. Um, I guess we just have to talk
(32:28):
about something. What happens when an industry starts out as
pretty small, right that It's not like it's not like
the coal industry or the oil industry began as a
giant behemoth, right, or any other industry anything. Really, it
always starts starts small and it has to, that's just
the nature of it. But it begins to balloon in
(32:49):
balloon and more people are doing and more people are manufacturing,
more people are enjoying whatever the service or the product is,
and it just at some point it gets too big, right,
And when it's once it once, it becomes too big.
And that's that's my judgment, right, too big. Um, there
are going to be negative effects on everyone, because there's
(33:12):
going to be a negative effect on environments. You know,
both in in small areas right and controlled areas, you're
gonna have really bad effects there, but also overall to
the entire planet, there could be negative effects. Yes. Funny,
even in like you know, podcasting, we always talk about
scaling and like you know, starting from a smaller company
and then launching way more shows and etcetera, etcetera. And
(33:33):
I was thinking, like, oh, we're kind of lucky because
we're in sort of a zero pollution business. We don't
make products that like can end up in landfills. But
even that, like you know that when you scale on
that level, you start to having to add more server
capacity or like more computers, and then that can lead
to ways downstream. It's just interesting anytime. Just to your point, Matt,
that an industry balloons in this way, there's gonna be
(33:55):
collateral damage. And with the fashion industry, where things are
so seasonal, it's very easy to generate a massive amount
of waste, you know, on the clothing side of it alone,
let alone the come be cos maad X, the packaging,
all the plastics. We've been talking about that too much lately,
but it's absolutely a thing. Just to put this out
there before we move on. I would say that depending
(34:17):
on how you are listening to our voices right now,
we could be said to be creating noise pollution just
saying this is true, right because so many people uh
only only rolled down local main street with this going
through the subwoofers. So is that you rolling down Rodeo
(34:38):
Drive listening to this right now? Good shotgun? Yeah, So
so this is uh, this is a good point, Matt.
I would also say, we're talking to the point about podcasting.
We're talking about hidden cost right as it was often
as it would often be described in economics, Uhid, environmental
(35:00):
cost of something like podcasting would be, uh, the fact
that the technology is reliant on rare earth metals, you know, Uh,
the both for the creators and the audience. Uh, the
fact that plastic is used in the devices, the fact
that we're powered by electricity, right, and where is the
(35:21):
electricity generated? You know, you're right, And and all the
servers that are holding all the files that are being
sent across the world. Boy, there's this is the worse
than we thought all and the world of cosmetics, in
the world of fashion is no different. You know, there
is a really compelling argument that, uh, and I don't
(35:45):
want to sound jaded, but that an industry passed, any
industry past a certain threshold of size, uh, does endanger
what we call the commons, right, the public things and resources. So,
like we said, plastic, the personal care industry is like
ballpark five hundred billion dollars worth of stuff a year.
(36:10):
And and think about think about how much it relies
on plastic. Shampoo, body wash, lipstick, mess scary cases, deodorant.
You don't see this stuff in a ton of like
glass containers. The vast majority of these products are more
often than not sold in plastic containers, not all, but
a ton of them. Yeah, it's sort of the same
as with recycled plastic. We talked about how Um, it
(36:32):
becomes you pay a premium for getting goods made of
recycled plastic because it costs more to make. And it's
the same with more luxury goods. I mean perfume, like
fancy bottle of perfume from Gucci or you know, something
like that will still come in a glass bottle. Uh,
fancy soaps that you get bespoke type soaps on Pinterest
or other sites like that. You know they're gonna come
(36:52):
in bars and they're in crazy shapes and have like
wood chips inside of them and stuff rexfoliation. But yeah,
mass produced, that's the beauty of mass production. That is
for everybody. Everyone can afford to have these things, or
maybe in the past perfume would only be available for
those with lots of money. Um. But in order to
do that, you have to make the packaging cheaper and
(37:13):
easier to mass produce. Yeah. And you know, a lot
of a lot of what's seen as luxurious today, there's
a bit of nostalgia to it. There's a retro factor.
We're selling a concept as much as we're selling a product, right. Ultimately,
all advertising is selling an idea more so than a
tangible object or even a service. So that stuff you're
(37:37):
describing hearkens back to the not too distant past when
soap came in a bar form and perfume was luxurious.
Someone had to go out and scrape the inside of
a whale stomach. Yeah, they also have some class glass
or metal bottle. Well, no metal, but I have glass bottles. Uh.
And and hair care was packaged, you know, in little
(37:58):
tins and little jars. And now you can see you
can still see that stuff because it does it does
feel more elevated. Right, This isn't just your your plastic
store brand. Uh, shampoo or flippowder or whatever. I don't
know if flipowder is a cosmetic, it's probably a drug
(38:18):
if it fixes something. I want to see more glass
shampoo bottles just like up the antie when you're using
it in the shower, Like, do not drop this shampoo?
That's right? Wow, whenever having the soap on a rope
to guys, I think they we should bring that back.
Would that be a nostalgia thing? I'm pretty sure it's
still available in several novelty stores and places across the country.
(38:42):
Are they shaped like naughty things? Oh? I don't. I
don't know what they're shaped like I just know there's
ropes with soaps. There's a shop in the United Kingdom
that for some reason was obsessed with a number of
years ago called Labor and Wait, and they they sell
this kind of nostalgic stuff. They sell like cardboard boxes
(39:05):
of soap flakes and things like that. But but to
your point, to your point, Matt, this, I didn't even
think about that. That is such a compelling reason for
the use of plastick and shampoo bottle. I mean the
household injuries alone, honestly, so many people would hurt themselves.
But but but I totally here with the tin thing, right,
(39:26):
that's that's coming back. I've seen in several places where
it's a shampoo bar essentially. It'll come in a tin
or something, or it'll just be a shampoo bar that
stand alone. You put it in your hair, Okay, I
didn't mean just rub the bar across your head. You
gotta get a good lad. That going get a good
lad and then yeah, or like you know, palm aids
(39:48):
and stuff. Things that are sort of retro a lot
of times will come in tins or or or glass
jars because it's part of the vibe it's part of
like the the optics of the product. You know, again,
we're selling an idea as much as we're selling a product.
And how how did how did we get here? Well?
After World War One, the US became the most prolific
(40:13):
producer of personal care beauty products and also the biggest consumer.
And part of that is, uh, not that the US
was super special or had the you know, some federal
mandate to become this titan. It's because Europe was recovering
from a massive war, and things like, uh, things like
(40:34):
popularizing different esoteric or niche beauty products took a little
bit of an understandable back seat. Uh. There's a there's
a great article by writer named Alejandra Burunda in National
Geographic that examines the history here and and also the
(40:55):
rise of plastic. Here's a quote. During the war, the
military had imposed strict hygiene codes as a way to
prevent disease from spreading amongst the troops, and when those
soldiers returned home, they brought with them in grained habits
of washing, shaving, and toothbrushing. By the mid nineteen twenties,
a whole industry of personal care popped up in the
(41:17):
Lever company, which would later become Unilever, the major multinational
personal care product company, kicked off an ad campaign outlining
the damage body odor could do to one's career and
social prospects. What does that remind me of? What does
that prep Yeah, bernh These doctors say, the body odor
(41:45):
that you're sporting is really not going to be great
for you. So you should your job opportunity stink literally, yeah,
somewhere around here right right, And uh in what I
love about the that's written is there's this there's this
strange kind of implicit implication that before people came back
(42:08):
from World War One, no one was washing and shaving
or brushing their teeth. That's not true, but but this
military regimen, you know, became popularized and normalized. And at
that very same time, remember again, Hollywood is exploding. So
now we see these actors that we love, we worship,
(42:29):
these modern celebrities. We want to look like them. We
want to know what they use for a face cream,
we want to know what, uh you know, what they
put on their armpits before they go to a job interview.
So it's big business. And then when plastics come out,
this enables the industry to accelerate even more. Of course,
(42:49):
the beauty industry immediately jumps on plastic. How could you not.
It's amazing for this sort of stuff. It's durable, it's light,
it can Uh, as someone said early, you're it can scale.
So uh. That trend continues. Honestly, that trend continues largely
unabated in the modern day. There are steps. People are
(43:10):
taking steps to slow it down, of course and look
towards sustainability. And we'll find out why they're doing that
in just a minute. And it's a depressing answer, but yes,
plastic skiing because it works. Yeah, And it's not to
say this might not change over the next couple of
years because there, as we've seen, you know, with plastics,
there are some large players taking steps to combat the
(43:31):
plastic problem, like we talked about on that episode and
with Lego um pivoting to using paper to contain their
tiny plastic pieces. Yes, but it's step in the right direction.
But in the cosmetics universe, Loureale is a giant. UM
is aiming to make a of their packaging reusable, refillable
which I love, and or compostable um. And they also
(43:58):
are I wouldn't go so far as to stay committing,
but they would. Essentially, their goal is to source fifty
of that packaging from recycled materials. That's really good news.
And in addition to plastic, there are other cosmetic and
personal care products that actually can contain toxic chemicals that
the environment doesn't know what to do with. They can't
(44:19):
break them down, they they can create runoff that goes
into water supplies, um drain into rivers, infiltrate the water system.
It's bad news. So a whole another side of of this,
of this discussion, and that's just one of the many
aspects um that are difficult when it comes to pollution
(44:40):
and the world of fashion and cosmetics. And we're gonna
get into more of those when we returned from a
quick sponsor break. Yes, we've returned. There's yeah. There is
another facet to this, to the world of fashion and
our own beyond makeup, and it's one that many of
(45:03):
us have probably heard about in recent years. It's the
idea often reported that the fashion industry clothing in particular,
generates a great deal of pollution and waste. You may
recall hearing in particular breathless somewhat hyperbolic headlines claiming the
(45:23):
fashion industry is the second most bloting industry in the world.
There's like oil and then the clothes you like, and
that's a bummer, right. Uh, But but to find the truth,
we did some digging and there's a there's a great
article by an author named Alden Wicker writing for an
(45:44):
outfit called Eco Cult, And Uh, what what I love
about this if if Alden you happen to be listening,
is that you specifically say, don't go quoting me and
say that Alden said this on Eco Cult. But we
looked at your math and it's solid and it makes
an important distinction. Here. There's a thing called the Global
(46:07):
Fashion Agenda. In they partnered with a consulting group called
the Boston Consulting Group, and they wanted to do some
analysis and see whether there was truth to that claim.
They published this thing called the Pulse of the Fashion
Industry Report, and in that they found that the fashion
industry itself was responsible for the emission of one point
(46:31):
seven billion tons of c O two in. But that
is only four point three percent of the overall thirty
nine point nine billion tons of carbon emissions that the
US overall put out, so that's very far from second.
(46:52):
That makes it the tenth most polluting industry. Other things
beat at agriculture, transportation, all of all of the Captain
plane at villains. Basically, I I apologize when I did
not get a chance to look at this article. Is
it just relating to the US? Do we know? Or
(47:13):
is it is it global? Like? Um? Because I'm just
imagining all this fashion industry and all the you know,
different different plants that are producing all the stuff that's
used in fashion that are across the world in very
specific places. Because I'm it just makes you wonder if
they're looking at emissions that are actually taking place on
(47:33):
US soil, or if they're looking at all of the
emissions that the industry gives out. And there's that intersection again, right,
because these are global supply chains. If we look at
the emissions just in the US, and that's an excellent
question where that stat is centered, Uh, then we're not
looking at the emissions made by factories where many of
these pieces of clothing are manufactured. Uh, this industry, there
(47:59):
is there is another there's a more global snap snapshot,
a snack shot. Sorry guys, Uh, there's Uh, let's keep
it ahead. I like snack shot, start using that, but
there's there's a more global snapshot here. In August of
this year. Just last month, the same outfit, the Global
Fashion Agenda, partnered with another returning guest to our show,
(48:22):
the consulting group Mackenzie, which is a very powerful, very weird,
scary thing. Efficient efficient. Yes, yes, they are efficient. Uh.
They got together and they did a new estimate. They
calculated a new estimate, and they found that the fashion
(48:46):
industry contributes to overall four percent of greenhouse gas in
in the overall in the world. And there's a thing
that makes these numbers weird and significant. That's what we've
been kind of day seen around. The fashion industry is
an an aggregate industry. It's it's a culmination of multiple
(49:09):
other related industries, some that are obvious and some not
so much. That's right. I mean, think about the supply
chain of what goes into fashion. You know, there's agriculture involved.
We've got cotton, agricultural product. We've got uh, the fossil
fuels that are required to ship these raw materials to
(49:31):
the factories where there then spun into the material that
is then used to actually make the clothing. UM. Polyester
a durable fabric uh kind of maligned, but it's used
a lot, even if you don't know it because it's durable,
but it's made from plastic that's an additive in and electricity, leather,
(49:51):
you know, livestock is involved in part of the supply chain.
And there's just so many other industries that really play
like shipping all of this stuff that play a huge
role in here. And there's waste at every step of
the process. UM. So in terms of waste, the fashion
industry is responsible for ninety two million tons of solid
waste per year and that's across the entire planet. And
(50:14):
that represents four percent of the two point one two
billion tons of waste dumped each year. And that's even
more than incredibly toxic E waste who would be like
electronic components that are discarded uh and more than twice
as much as supermarkets uh create food waste. UM. And
(50:34):
that one in particular never sits right with me. And
I have a thing to bring up when we get
to UM some of the actual waste of products that
comes from the fashion industry. Yeah, there's definitely stuff there,
you guys. I never thought about plastic buttons and components
for garments and Chloe, I never thought about the amount
(50:56):
of plastic that exists just due to those things. Think
about that, the shipping constant container of Lego parts that's
spilled into the ocean, you know, I mean buttons would
be probably shipped to be a whole shipping container full
of millions of buttons and tiny little you know what
else would they be? A little you know, a little
kutman is a little like like highlight things like plastic zippers, aglets. Uh,
(51:23):
you know, which is a totally unnecessary word that I
love in English? Is that what that has been? The
little piece at the end of hoodie strings? That's correct? Yea.
So that's that's my show and tell. Not quite a
conspiracy makeup kit, but you know we're working semi live. Uh,
you're right, right, right, Uh. Most people listening to this
(51:45):
are probably wearing some form of plastic on the person.
You know, this stuff is everywhere, as we said, so
that's kind of the lay of the land. And so
our next question should logically be what are cosmetic and
fashion manufacturers doing to address these issues? To their credit,
multiple manufacturers have taken steps to combat one or more
(52:08):
of the specific issues described above. Makers of cosmetics have
responded to some of the demands of what are called
cruelty free movements, you know, and large clothing companies have
meticulously analyzed their supply chains. I'll say it often in
response to an outcry about exploitative labor or you know,
(52:32):
dodgy environmental practices. But it's good. It means your voice
matters right right, right again, it's empowerment. Uh. And in
some cases they have instituted sustainability programs of one sort
or another, like Loureal's goal to use more recycled substances. However,
(52:53):
at the same time, there's another factor at play. Some
companies some of the same come but he's actually or
accelerating this trend of pollution due in part to a
phenomenon I think everybody was waiting to hear us say,
fast fashion, the the idea that you can you don't
(53:14):
have to buy something and keep it for twenty five years.
You can buy the hottest look of that season, of
that moment, and then you can move on to the next.
It will be affordable, it will be disposal. That's right,
because the previous version of that would have been luxury
goods that were so expensive there would be a resale
market for them. Even if it's not you, You're gonna
(53:36):
sell it, you know, for hundreds of dollars potentially if
it's like a Gucci item, then maybe it's two seasons old,
but there's still a market for that, whereas like something
from Zara or H and M. You know, less of
an aftermarket for stuff like that. But that's the part
that drives me insane. I mean, every year, the world
consumes more than eighty billion items of clothing, and the
(53:58):
average individual in the US toss is eighty two pounds
of textile goods out each year, which adds up to
eleven million tons for the entire US. But like, in
the same way that waste, food waste makes no sense
to me because there there's the organizations that should be
able to funnel that to people that really need it.
Shouldn't that also be the case for a lot of this, uh,
(54:18):
clothing waste? Oh god, yeah, I was thinking about putting
this in or if we should save it for a
different episode, but it's it's it's a terrible point and
a very good one. Uh. A lot of times that
clothing that you donate if you live in a Western country,
that is supposed to go help other people who need clothing.
A lot of times that has a negative effect on
(54:41):
the population people are attempting to help. It can kill
local textile businesses because they can't compete with palette after
palette of free T shirts and pants and so on.
It's just it's the sustainable price versus virtually free. And
a lot of that stuff, by the way, doesn't get
straight up donated to people in need. It goes to
(55:03):
someone who sells it. So there's there are different rent
seekers and opportunists at at every corner of this and
and and you're right there, there is a lot of waste.
One time, I don't want to get too personal here,
but one time in our fair metropolis of Atlanta, I
almost got arrested for giving away bread, uh that that
(55:26):
I got day old bread from a bakery. I was
walking around like some kind of cut rate late summer
Santa Claus with a big old plastic bag of old
day old croissants and facasha and so on, and handing
it out to people who wanted bread and uh, and
the police found me. What do they say to you?
(55:47):
You have to have a license to give away bread. Yeah, man,
if it's if it's a food product. There are now
crazy regulations and stipulations. I might be poisoning people. I
don't have any kind of like health inspection, you know
what I mean. So I guess I guess it makes sense.
Been thinking about doing that right now, just having a
(56:10):
bag of bighetts and instead of you know, doing things
that you know, well known comedians talking about with bags
of bighetts, you are just taking them around and just
handing them to people, even if you've got gloves on,
even if you're masked up. I'm just trying to imagine
that I just wanted to walk around with snacks and
I didn't think about it, you know. So it's technically
illegal to like give someone your left over our food
(56:33):
or something like if you have, you know, a doggie
bag and then the homeless individual ask you for money
and instead you say, here, take my food. Is that
Could you get in trouble for doing that? That's a
good question. I would like to think that most people
wouldn't stop you from doing that because it's just a
basic gesture of human kindness. Maybe they would stop you
(56:54):
if it were if like there were reports of someone
purposefully poisoning people that way, and they were on the lookout.
But I don't think anybody's gotten stopped. You may have
been told perhaps don't feed these people, or you're not
helping them, you're accelerating a problem or something, but I
don't I don't see someone getting arrested for it, you know, Yeah, ye,
(57:17):
arrested seems a little harsh, but maybe find or warned
unless you're you're a chronic giver of your food. Oh yeah, well,
I guess it just depends on where you are, Like
what city, I bet you it changes, um city, country,
local area and all that. Let let us know your
stance on that, folks, Let us know your stance on
(57:39):
whether or not there are I give your own food,
give out your food laws on the books where in
your neck of the global woods. I do want to
say that that that statistic we just mentioned the idea
like a lot of people listening in to the US
are thinking, did I really throw out eighty two pounds
(58:04):
of clothing last year? We have to consider Yeah, that
average sounds crazy because we're talking about an average of
three eight something million people, So they're probably you know,
like any other average of that size. There's a very
small group at the top that is just like, why
would you wear the same clothes twice? What am I
(58:25):
a farmer? You know? People like there There are people
who live very different lives than most of the other people.
And then there are people on the other end of
the spectrum who are like, why would I own two shirts?
I have one Torso there's there's a lot of variants between.
But what's happening in in a way that's affecting everybody
in that span everybody who buys clothing, is that just
(58:49):
like the Just just like when the price of mirrors
dropped and they became more affordable, the price of what's
regarded as high fashion is dropping. That's a good thing,
it would seem for consumers. It means we hand buy
more stuff, and so we do. In fact, we buy
four more stuff like this than we did years ago.
(59:11):
And we don't wear it forever, of course, and it
doesn't magically disappear just because we can't see it. We're adults,
we have object permanence. We know things exist outside of
our vision. This stuff all goes somewhere, yeah, it does.
And just remember that dropping price of your fashion has
(59:31):
a great effect on your pockets, but it has a
terrible effect on the people attempting to manufacture it so
quickly in all of those places across the world who
are furiously trying to make as many pairs of pants
as possible as they can for almost nothing. So then
what should consumers do? Should we Should we posse up
(59:53):
and say we're going to collectively support more sustainable supply chains,
even if it's more expensive. Should we abby our government leaders,
as you point out Matt as an excellent observation that
does that does result and change, you know. Or should
we just now this is tough to say in a
capitalist economy. Should we just buy fewer things? Should we
(01:00:14):
just buy less stuff? I don't know. You can't do that.
I can't do that. You gotta buy everything, buy more
things that that Amazon Prime account you've got is just
sitting there waiting America the fire sale. Right, everything must go. Uh,
here's here's the fact of the matter. So companies are companies.
(01:00:36):
They're going to follow the most profitable business model. So logically,
these problems are a type of stuff. They don't want
you to know until solving these problems becomes more profitable
than ignoring them. And that's again, that's not to say
fashion companies are some kind of League of evil mutants,
league of well dressed supervillains or something. It's just that
(01:01:00):
your favorite fashion line is like any other business, They're
gonna ultimately follow wherever the bottom line leads. And there
really is no easy answer, as we alluded to earlier,
when just thinking about something like animal testing. That's one
tiny little aspect of this. All of these are our
debates really, and I think that's why important, why it's
important for us to talk about them. So we don't
(01:01:22):
want the conversation to end here. We don't want this
to just be you know, something that Ben and Nolan
I talked about and you and Paul listen to Mission control.
Of course, um, we wanted to be you know, let's
come up with some great ideas. Let's talk about this stuff.
You can begin the conversation with us or just amongst
you know, friend maybe family member, just talk about some
of this stuff. If you want to talk to us,
(01:01:44):
you can reach us on social media on Twitter and
Facebook we are Conspiracy Stuff. On Instagram we are Conspiracy
Stuff Show. And if you would like to uh talk
to us in semi person. Then please give us a
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(01:02:07):
reverb met and uh, you have three minutes. Let's know
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whether you are comfortable with us using your voice, sand
or name on the air. And if you don't want
to do that stuff, you can head on over to
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find videos, hopefully from this very podcast. Uh, we shall see.
(01:02:33):
There's gonna be tons of videos there. It's gonna be
mostly us at least in the near future, talking like this,
but with cameras so you can look at us and
we can hang out that way. But there are other
surprises coming to so I don't know. Just make sure
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(01:02:54):
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You can also find us online. Here's where it gets crazy.
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(01:03:16):
still call it iTunes, just call a Apple podcast. I
don't know, so it's a learning curve. Yeah, but while
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(01:03:39):
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