The Rise of the Agent Provocateur

Protests against systemic injustice and police brutality are sweeping the United States and the world at large. In the US, protesting isn't just a tactic -- it is a right, explicitly described in the first amendment of the U.S. Constitution. Protests can be powerful tools to push for change, but other forces, from corporations to militias, intelligence agencies and more also seek to use the power of protest against itself. Listen in to learn more about the history -- and future -- of the agent provocateur.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is
riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or
learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A
production of I Heart Brading. Hello, Welcome back to the

(00:25):
show today. We are recording this on June. My name
is Matt, my name is Nol. They call me Ben.
We are joined as always with our super producer, Paul
Mission controlled decades. Most importantly, you are you. You are here,
and that makes this stuff they don't want you to know.

(00:45):
As we record today, cities and towns across the United
States and the world are the staging ground for numerous
peaceful protests against ongoing police brutality and longstanding discrimination again
the Black community of the United States. Escalation has resulted
in violence as authorities resort to what are sometimes misleadingly

(01:09):
called less than lethal tactics to force these groups to disperse.
We are three mostly white dudes, and we stand in
solidarity with our fellow black citizens. Black lives matter. Anything
said to distract, from, discredit, or dilute that statement goes
squarely against the stated principles of this government in its

(01:33):
founding documents, and crucially it goes against what it means
to be a human being. We don't have all the answers,
it would be false to pretend that we do. The
good news is that there are many organizations and activists
out there now easy to find, with the resources to
help address injustice and what we can do on this show,

(01:54):
as has always been, our aim is to arm you
with information many and looting those in power do not
want you to know. With this in mind, we want
to give you and our fellow listeners crucial information about protest,
what they are, how they work, and most importantly, the
tactics used by opponents, legal and illegal to sabotage them.

(02:19):
So here are the facts. Well, to start off with, UM,
the act of protest is in fact your right as
a citizen of the United States, regardless of how you
might personally feel about these protests or protests in general.
It is something that from the very onset the establishment
of this country, in the U. S. Constitution UM, has

(02:41):
been a primary guiding principle for the United States as
a nation. UM. The right to protest is literally in
the first Amendment of the Constitution, UM, stating the obvious
here for many, but imagine that lawmakers of the time. Um,
the all two imperfect founding fathers, as we refer to them.

(03:01):
You know, we're sitting in that back room debating on
how to create a living document. Um. And when they
wrote the first part of the Constitution, Uh, they likely
were spitballing back and forth ways to make sure that
this could be adaptable to you know, changing circumstances. Um.

(03:21):
And when they wrote that very first amendment, they wrote
these words, Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment
of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, or abridging
the freedom of speech or of the press, or the
right of the people peaceably to assemble and to petition
the Government for a redress of grievances. There's definitely some

(03:47):
dated language in their right. Uh. And and it can
be a little bit to unpack, but it's fairly direct.
Right is fairly direct, especially for legal document. In essence,
the government here can legally interfere with your religion one.
I mean, that's part of why the US is a
great place to start a religion. That's a story for

(04:07):
another day. It also says that Uncle Sam has to
let you and the media say what you want, what
they want with a massive amount of fine print there
that we've covered in some other episodes. And there there's
that most important part that you hit Matt for today's show.
All people have the right to assemble peaceably or peacefully

(04:29):
as we would say. Now, that means this, think about this.
That means that literally, if everyone in this country decided
to drop what we're doing right now, walk outside to
the nearest parks, and we decided to seeing the entire
catalog of nickelback, then the constitution is down with that
ridiculous decision. And that also means that if you wish,

(04:50):
instead of joining some nationwide Nickelback tribute, you can publicly
press the government for change. Yeah. I mean you know,
certainly your fellow park attendees might look at you askance
if they're not as into nickelback as you are. Um,
And there might even be some cops there that would

(05:11):
look at you funny, but they certainly wouldn't stop you
from doing it. Uh. I love the idea of redress
of grievances. That's sort of part of that dated language
you were mentioning, Ben, but it's really simple. It's the
idea of expressing, uh change that you want to see
um in the status quo and addressing it peacefully in

(05:32):
a public setting, and the notion that you should not
be um interfered with, as long as that peacefully is
the key word there. Yeah, I mean on paper, top
notch right home, run on paper. This is a series
of rights that many, many, many people in many other
countries have historically not possessed. And it's a series of

(05:55):
rights that many countries do not grant in the modern day.
And that's because when everyone in charge of enforcing these
laws is in fact obeying the laws that they are
supposed to obey, this series of rights is a profoundly
powerful thing. But you know, the old adage holds true, right,

(06:17):
there's many a slip TwixT the cup and the lip,
and the US, again, like many places, has a terrible
abominable track record at obeying its own laws. And when
a protest is for one reason or another, something that
is not wanted by those in power. There are emergency

(06:38):
powers that can be deployed to do all kinds of things,
including right now that we're seeing to enforce curfews, which
you know, in in cities across the United States, there
are curfews that are are happening tonight, which is in
fact an hour earlier than it had been previously tonight. Again,
as we record this in Atlanta, can I can I

(06:58):
say really really quickly? Um? These curfews are tricky in
and of themselves because it's hard to know for folks
that are like at work. For example, like a friend
of mine, UM, was working at a restaurant they're back
at working in restaurants waiting tables, and her boss knew
about the curfew, but did not share that information with

(07:19):
his employees. Uh. And they are not allowed to have
their phones on them while they're working. So for something
like a curfew to be so heavily enforced, heavy handedly enforced,
is really tricky when the information isn't reaching the people
who need it. Um. And I've been moving for example, Uh,
while all of this has been going on in Atlanta,

(07:41):
and a couple of times I didn't get the notification
on my phone, and luckily Ben you texted me and
made sure I was safe and told me what the
curfew was, and I was about fifteen minutes away from
missing it. And I've been seeing, you know, a lot
of stuff in the news about people very much getting
into some difficult situation for missing this curfew, whatever their

(08:01):
race might be. And curfews are only one of the
tools within the belt of the people's in power and
that they could be used to quell protesting. And one
of the major components to this is that the people
who are in power, who are meant to actually enforce
the laws to keep law and order, they may have

(08:21):
their own agendas. Specifically, they may have an agenda that
is in complete opposition to the cause of the protesters
right right. Remember, back in the um in the days
of the nineties sixties protests, quite a few members of
law enforcement were themselves also members of militaristic supremacist organizations,

(08:47):
not the right people for the job. In other words, Also,
there's trickery in the enforcement of these kind of powers
or the deployment way, the way they're rolled out. The
first atlant To curfew, which was at nine pm, was
announced via text at about nine thirteen PM, and protesters

(09:08):
were also blocked from egress, so they were going to
be subject to violating a curfew that they were physically
unable to comply with. This these exact problems are why
protests matter. These situations themselves prove why protests should remain

(09:31):
a fundamental right in this country and why they are
so important. They are a direct method of expression that
can be used when other channels of expression have become
compromised or when they have failed, when they have collapsed entirely.
Look back at history, protests in this country led to
voting rights for women. Protests have led to policy change,

(09:54):
to the enactment or at least the writing of better laws,
and to the repeal of her rific ones. Protests lead
to more rights for more people, at least they have
the ability to do so. And if you look at
the history of protests in this country, you will see
that they have often been successful. I know. That's something

(10:14):
that you know, the mainstream media doesn't really talk about
when they talk about modern protests. It's safe to pat
yourself on the back when you look at history from
a distance. Well, and we'll we'll get into this as well.
But in the media right now, who are clearly grappling,
you know, on how to cover these protests in a

(10:36):
measured way. You know, typically journalism is an opinion based
so it needs to lean on facts. But the idea
of what is a protest, what is a revolt, What
is a revolution? What is an uprising? These things are
very much front and center in this conversation around what's
going on right now? Um, and very quickly a protest

(10:58):
can become something more are resembling an uprising um and
that does typically involve violence and destruction and behavior that
can be demonized by those in power and used to
discredit a movement. The cold heart fact is that protests,

(11:19):
not always, but generally are against something that is happening
within the current power structure, the current system, right, the
status quo that exists. And oftentimes when there are protests,
powerful people at the tops of you know, whatever food
chain you're you're thinking of, they won't want to have

(11:41):
that change whatever it is that the protester is seeking,
because it would mean they then they would have to
change the system itself, would have to change the things
that give them, you know, power and oftentimes money would
have to change. I mean, why why would someone who
was a part of that system, you know necessary really
want to have that done? Right? I mean this it's

(12:03):
kind of a tricky thing to to even talk about,
but giving away power and money and whatever that thing is,
those two would be the probably the highest things. That's
not something that happens very often. Willingly, no, and really quickly,
just to clarify my previous comment when I was talking
about the idea of an uprising versus a protest. Obviously,

(12:24):
so much of what we're seeing right now is absolutely
peaceful protest. But then you are hearing like I heard
a woman, a black woman on the radio the other day, uh,
talking about how she wants to just burn it all
down because nothing else has worked. Um. And the only
way to truly enact change is to mess with the

(12:44):
power holders money and to actually do things that will
that they will notice, because it's easy to just brush
off the idea of a peaceful protest if you're one
of those holders of the power that actually can can
affect change and you don't want to relinquish that, it's
when their money and their property and their infrastructure is threatened. UM.

(13:06):
And this is you know, I'm not trying to get
off the subject here because we are talking about something
a little different, but that is something that there is,
you know, and this notion that peaceful protests don't always work,
and some of the protests you're talking about them that
led to those changes did ultimately turn into something more
resembling a revolter and uprising. And while the times and

(13:28):
the circumstances may change, the people in power for a
very very long time have commonalities in the tactics that
they use to exploit and to exploit a movement, to
deepower protests and and to attempt to essentially hinder the

(13:48):
progress of the movements. Associate with those protests. Two put
them into maybe three broad categories. One, you want to
discredit a movement if if you're the person in power
who feels like, as you said, Matt, your uh, your
status as being one of the halves is threatened. This

(14:08):
takes a number of roots. For example, why not associate
a movement with something negative, focus media coverage on say,
rioters and looters or property damage rather than the message
of that movement. Also launch counter protest, whether astro turfed
or whether whipped up by um, discrediting movements online. All

(14:35):
all protests now also take place online. That's important to
remember and aim those counter protesters, whether they are paid
which definitely think or however they get their aim them
at the existing protest. All of that happens, and honestly,
it is highly unethical, but there are very few laws

(14:58):
constraining the use of those tactics. And that's that's like,
that does not even count what I what I would say,
or the other two officially known and condone tactics like
smear tactics. Yeah, this is a this is a a
big one that oftentimes isn't even known until years after

(15:18):
because this one involves well, really blackmail, specifically finding dirt
on you know, leaders within a movement. That is something
that really does happen, or you know, using connections within
the media, or you know, just again with now with
the access of social media, you can do it, you know,

(15:41):
with a single person and start a rumor to publicly
smear or gaslight or you know, like we said, blackmail
some leader of a movement, and we saw this with coentelpro,
where the government itself was attempting to blackmail Dr Martin
Luther King. And it doesn't even take like dirt or
mail necessarily. It can be just done with rhetoric by

(16:03):
reframing a leader of a movement as of radical or
as a terrorist or whatever. Like you know, people in
power with a very big megaphone and a very tall
bully pulpit can just use their words to reframe someone
that has good intentions um and has a very just
aim and discredit them just using words. And that word

(16:25):
gas lighting that you mentioned, I mean, that's what that
is is when you're making people who follow them think
maybe they're wrong, maybe that this person actually is a
bad person, and it makes you question your own motivations.
And that's a very powerful thing that people in power
are able to do just by speaking well, now, you're
absolutely right, and controlling how a protest is viewed by

(16:48):
the viewership or listenership within especially television. Right now, we've
seen it where you know, we see words like protest
and then also the same group of people doing something
described as you know, writers, the same group of people
described as looters, um. And oftentimes it's not the same

(17:11):
people that are being talked about. But you know, if
you look on your screen, it looks the same. You know. Um,
I guess just what I'm saying is that you can
depict the way an end user of media views a
group of people specifically in protest by the language you
use around those uh, those images. One of the tremendous

(17:32):
misconceptions in the modern world today is that there is
democratization of media that is not in fact the case.
What is collectively referred to as the media right now
has a lot in common with a taco bell menu.
I think I've made this comparison before. If you look at,
you know, the menu of a drive through a taco Bell.

(17:53):
I'm just picking on them because they're an excellent example.
Then you will see what twenty thirty different things on
the menu. They all have the same five to ten
ingredients there. These things are fingers on a hand and
they are meant to appear separate, and that is very
much by design. There are the groups who control what

(18:15):
you see and what you hear. They are They are
far fewer of them than you know. People would assume
that that's something that makes it so easy to do
the next category, which is to co opt the movement.
It's the next step in controlling the narrative. This is
something that you you may be hearing reports of in
Portland's recently. Why the logic is this? And it gets

(18:38):
slippery and illegal very quickly. Why bother attacking a leader
when you can have an agreement with one? A back
door quid quo quo scratching backs kind of deal, you know. Furthermore,
why make a deal when you can simply create a
leader to make the public moves within the protest while
also furthering your agenda. Very careful when you know there's

(19:03):
someone who, uh, who seems new to a community and
activist community, and they have a lot of grand, very
extreme ideas and also have a tendency to to tell you, uh,
if you're a veteran activist, what this is really about.
The narrative shift is real. I don't want to be alarmist,

(19:24):
but it happens. You can also again, because all of
this stuff is occurring online too, you can see the
creation of fake accounts meant to push the conversation, just
like in the election and other movements, you know, to
try and lead a protest in a direction that people
in power wanted to go. Russia has objectively had some

(19:46):
great programs with this, uh, and they're very old, like
Operation Infection it was called in the US UM decades
and decades and decades ago. It is naive to think
that's not happening now. But there's also massive elephant in
in the room right now. Uh, and it's one that's
often ignored by the mainstream media that we're talking about

(20:07):
those fingers on the same hand, those taco bell ingredients.
But common knowledge to folks who are veterans in the
protest game, and that's that whenever there's a peaceful gathering
of protesters, uh, that somehow becomes violent, no matter what
the scale of the violence is. Again, it's all about
those optics and the interpretation of Okay, this is now

(20:28):
giving us the cause to push the button to quell
said violence. These peacekeeping forces now have a reason to
pull the trigger on this idea of Okay, this is
now no longer a peaceable assembly um redressing grievances. Now
we are moving into go mode to quell that violence,

(20:50):
a k A shut down that protest. So the big
question today is how and why do peaceful protests and
cities across the entire planet, uh, but particularly in the
US so often result in these kinds of incidents that
involve destruction of property or violence. What what is there
to gain from this? Why is this happening? And we'll

(21:13):
talk about that right after a quick word from our sponsor.
Here's where it gets crazy. The first important point, Uh,
it is it is not it is not our aim

(21:33):
to tell anyone how to protest UH, and it would
be offensive to do so. This, however, is again a
mission to armu you with information, to arm you with
things that people in power do not want you to know.
And one of the things that people in power do

(21:54):
not want you to know about protests is that there
are numerous bad actors. There is enormous opportunity for people
on the ground to exploit, UH, to exploit the actual cause,
the actual motivating force of a protest or a movement,

(22:15):
for their own insidious Then the farriest ends this is
not a conspiracy theory. This is a conspiracy. Everything that
you are going to hear in this episode this point
on definitely is true and it should alarm you. We're
talking about infiltration. Long time listeners, you already know the

(22:39):
elephant in the room here is what it's called the
agent provocateur. But let's let's get some background first. Yes,
and just quick background on that search term. If you
put in agent provocateur without some other terms, you're going
to get alongso a company, So just be aware of that.
UM not not very helpful when research something like this.

(23:01):
For some of this, I kind of want to start
it with an article from The New York Times that
was written by Jim Dwyer in two thousand five, just
because it it gives some much needed background here and there.
This is a fairly long quote here, but we're gonna
go with it, and then we'll we'll build off of it.
Here's the quote. The federal courts have long held that

(23:23):
undercover officers can monitor political activities for a quote, legitimate
law enforcement purpose. While the police routinely conduct undercover operations
and plainly criminal circumstances the illegal sale of weapons, for example,
surveillance at political events is laden with ambiguity to retain cover.
In those settings, officers might take part in public dialogue, debate,

(23:45):
and demonstration at the risk of influencing others to alter
opinions or behavior. The authority of the police to conduct
surveillance of First Amendment activities has been shaped over the years,
not only by the law, but also by the politics
of the movement and the perception and of public safety needs.
In the nineteen seventy one class action lawsuit, New York

(24:05):
City acknowledged that the police department had used infiltraders, undercover agents,
and fake news reporters to spy on quote yippies, civil
rights advocates, anti war activists, labor organizers, and black power groups.
But all that was under like the auspices of like,
we just want to keep an eye on it in

(24:25):
case so that we can maintain law and order. It's
not necessarily to shut down protests, you know, on paper,
it is not necessarily to discredit any of these organizations
on paper. The idea was, we need to be able to,
you know, have our finger on the pulse of what's
going on with these types of organizations. Right perhaps, but
the important thing here is that law enforcement has infiltrated

(24:48):
these groups, perhaps prior to a protest taking place. Just
like several years ago, Uh, the FBI was caught out
because they had sent people to infiltrate uh Muslim communities
here in the United States, and these infiltrators were attempting

(25:10):
to radicalize people, it's called right, attempting to say, uh,
let's let's start building some bombs, let's start committing um,
you know, these felonious acts. And this disturbed the members
of these communities so much that they reported the FBI's
own agents to the FBI and said, please arrest these people.

(25:33):
It's like entrapment, right, yes, yeah, it's very it's very close.
There will be lawyers who disagree, but um, I would
say it's unethical to pretend that it's not. And this
this is like an agent provocateur. Think of it like
genre and sub genre. An agent provocateur is a genre

(25:54):
like category of this phenomenon. Not every protester is who
they purport to be, as noted in this earlier video
we have which is a little dated but still holds
up in terms of tactics, and you can find it
by the way. You have to search for Dirty Tricks
Agent Provocateur and it's on the Old House Stuff Works

(26:16):
YouTube channel. Just so everybody knows. Yeah, yeah, these these
protesters are These people purporting to be protesters have a
different underlying agenda, an ulterior motive, and this is known
as the agent provocateur. A couple examples, uh, someone who

(26:37):
is not associated with the movement but is present to incite,
you know, these acts of violence, to to push people there.
And again, this is not the same thing as saying
the only good protests is a peaceful one. We're just
presenting the facts. This is the aim of the agent provocateur.
They're the people who for some reason want citizens and

(26:59):
law enforcement to clash. And these these agent provocateur have
their own subcategories as well. They are not all the same.
Some are ideologically motivated, they're unpaid. Uh. They might be
someone like um an anarchist, which I think is of
course an umbrella term. I don't want to paint abroad
brush here. But there might be members of some anarchist

(27:22):
groups or factions of some anarchist groups who say, I
don't care what this protest is about, but I do
care uh to dismantle a system right or to or
to create chaos, to become an agent of chaos. You'll
also see people who are ideologically camouflaging themselves, like the

(27:43):
alt right proud boy groups uh, you know confirmed in
the Pacific Northwest, who participated in the recent protest with
the express cause of inciting violence. And there's also an
immediate example we could point to that just happened, uh
got a few days ago where an unknown person holding

(28:06):
an umbrella and wearing a gas mask came up and
just began smashing windows when there was a peaceful assembly occurring,
and it just seemed like it was for no reason.
And you know, there were all kinds of rumors on
social media and a couple of videos made of this
person where he was purported, uh, you know, allegedly to

(28:26):
be a police officer, then allegedly to be an anarchist.
And it's just at this point, unless you guys have
other knowledge, this person is unknown. But they certainly they
made it to where a report could go out to
the police then that vandalism had occurred in this one
specific area, which could potentially then send a police force

(28:48):
to that immediate area. And this, this tactic is older
than police forces. It is much much older than you
may think. It was something that the human species figured
out in ancient times. This happened, you know, this is
older than the US. The term, the reason the term
is French is it becomes it comes from modern undercover

(29:11):
operations that were instituted in France in the early eighteen hundreds.
But the reason people keep using agent provocateur tactics is
because they work. I mean, you mentioned co Intel Pro earlier, Matt,
just to be specific about that. During co Intel Pro,
which is arguably never ended, maybe just changed names. The

(29:34):
way that Blackwater became Academy became x C or whatever.
During co intel pros activities, FBI agents infiltrated groups and
they infiltrated protest. They were supposed to be monitoring these things,
but they also disrupted and sabotaged them. These groups include
things like the Ku Klux Klan, the KKK, but they

(29:57):
also include things like the Mayor Arican Indian Movement. They
include things like UH student groups that were considered UH
dangerously left wing by the people in power. And we
know this continues into the modern day easily. Yeah. I
mean the a c LU called for an investigation of
possible Denver uh PD agents attempting to inside violence against

(30:23):
police during the two thousand eight Democratic National Convention UM,
and someone who's a member of law enforcement or a
faction of the government UH could absolutely be considered an
agent provocateur. Undercover officers are often known to use tactics
UM to kind of escalate these protests, especially in the

(30:45):
United States. Officially, they're there to maintain the peace UH
and protect everyone involved, but that absolutely changes when someone
associated with the law UH purposefully tries to spark violence
by damaging property or urging peaceful protesters. To that point,
you made earlier ben about with the Muslim community um

(31:07):
trying to kind of in trap or in sight. I
guess in trap maybe as is too loaded a term.
Peaceful protesters to attack police or damage property. And we
saw an example of this in two thousand seven that's
included in our video where in Canada there were there
was a pretty large peaceful protests occurring and three men
who were wearing all black and covering their faces, and

(31:30):
at least one of them was carrying a rock, and they,
you know, appeared to be acting very aggressive towards police,
and they were called out by the peaceful protesters. And
you can watch videos on this right now, you can
check it out, and you can just see how those
men then crossed the police line and were it looked

(31:53):
like they were being arrested perhaps, but they were, you know,
just taken away to somewhere else, probably went back to
their post. Who knows theatrically arrested, I would say for sure.
And even right now, I mean, there's obviously so much
information and everyone's got a camera, you know, on their phone,
so there's there's there's a flood of videos and information

(32:14):
that's out there surrounding the protests that they're going on
right now. But I saw a video where it was
someone calling out the police for damaging their own car. Um.
It's it's a video where you can literally see a
police SUV type vehicle and gentlemen in police uniforms standing
on top of it and smashing the window themselves and

(32:34):
uh and damaging the car. Um. You know, it was
in the distance, perhaps, Uh, it's it's easy to misconstrue
what's what's actually going on, But that certainly was the
impression that the person making the video had. They called
them out and said, I see what you're doing. I
see what you're doing. One common question would be how
do piles of bricks conveniently end up on sidewalks approaching

(32:58):
you know, approaching a protests And you'll see people claiming
that it is in fact law enforcement that's doing that.
But there's another question here too that we need to outline.
Should be it may be painfully obvious, but we need
to outline it. What is the goal here for an
agent provocateur? Who are these people who are camouflaging themselves

(33:20):
physically and ideologically, uh, in order to perpetrate this counterintelligence,
these acts of de seek. Well, there can be more
than one aim. First, the first aim is, as as
you guys mentioned earlier, to somehow make incredibly violent crackdowns
by law enforcement seem not just justified but inevitable, to

(33:44):
make them seem to be the right sort of thing
to do. The police in this country are and have
been heavily militarized, uh, in a process that, by the way,
occurred in step with mass of defunding of education. Just
gonna point that out, uh. And the second goal would

(34:05):
be too discredit a movement because again, like we've said,
we can't see it enough watched, watch your local news.
And if if one thing happens that would be violent,
If one thing happens that fits the definition of you know,
that which bleeds is that which leads, then that is
what the media will tend to talk about. And they will, uh,

(34:29):
they will tend to it. Sounds like I'm paying with
a broad brush, but there is a common prevalence here
of focusing on that sort of stuff. And then when
that happens, that is all the news cycle talks about.
There's no more talk of what what the aims of
the protest were, what kind of what kind of change

(34:49):
with the protesters like to see what kind of world
do we want to live in? It's just a target
get robbed. Yeah, It's a very easy way of reframing
the narrative and bearing the lead um and changing the conversation.
It's a way of hijacking uh, that cause uh and
turning it into demonizing uh the byproducts of that cause,

(35:14):
which may very well have been entirely peaceful, but then
are completely reframed. Like we were talking about earlier, how
you can discredit a movement with purely just with rhetoric
and the way that you refer to things and with
the news cycle, uh, and that starts in positions of
power and often filters down to the news organizations. I

(35:35):
would just say, I'm in a position where I've been
looking at a lot of archival footage of the civil
rights movement in the assassination of Dr Martin Luther King,
and what you're talking about here, guys, is exactly what
you can see in the reporting that immediately follows the
assassination of Dr Martin Luther King, where there was such
anger and and fear and unrest that immediately all owed

(36:00):
that assassination, that there were massive protests there there was,
you know, to an extent um, some some a bit
of I don't know how you describe it. Just there
were a lot of people on the streets and there
was smashing of windows and breaking into stores that occurred.
But the framing on this, you know, very dated at

(36:24):
this point. Media and mass media that was coming out
and reporting about it, it's all framed on the you know,
quote looting and the in a very similar way that
you're seeing today looting and riots. Well, it's it's it's
it's a way of saying, oh, if you're gonna behave
like this, you don't deserve the change that you so
desperately seek, you know, because look at the way you're behaving.

(36:47):
You know, if you really deserved this thing that you want,
you would go about it a different way. That that's
me speaking like as the voice of you know, the
powers that be, and that's the way the conversation is
attempted to be steered. And speaking of steering the conversation,
I'm going to take us back to another aim of
agent provocateurs that needs to be said. Okay, and this

(37:09):
is something that uh, this this is something that is terrifying,
but it is also real at least in terms of
an aim, and that is the goal of not just
strengthening a rationalization for the actions of the oppositional forces,
but to spark a larger conflict. I'm not I'm not

(37:31):
talking about, you know, making a situation where innocent people
are arrested, which agent provocateurs do. I'm talking about creating
something that goes beyond the scope of a single protest,
widespread unrest and violence, a coup, a civil war. There
are groups. There are are groups now you can find
the Robert Evans has done some excellent reporting on this

(37:53):
where where they're there are groups that are openly advocating
to push things word a civil war. I cannot recommend
his podcast it could happen here enough. I do suggest
you check it out as soon as you at the time.
And these are just a few examples. We have war
specific examples, including first party confessions that said, yes, I

(38:17):
did this, I did this on purpose. Here's why, yeah,
I mean. In two thousand eleven, The Guardian reported that
a gentleman named Patrick Howley, who was the assistant editor
at the American Spectator, actually admitted to having infiltrated and
occupy Wall Street protest that was held at the Smithsonian's
National Air and Space Museum, uh, specifically with the aim

(38:38):
of discrediting it. And here's a quote directly from the
man himself. Uh quote, as far as anyone knew, I
was part of this cause, a cause that I had
infiltrated the day before in order to mock an undermine
in the pages of the American Spectator. And I wasn't
giving up before I had my story. Yeah, if you
continue reading on in this article, it just rives how

(39:01):
there were guards at the protest. Uh you know, um
officers essentially who used pepper spray on a lot of
the protesters who were attempting to enter into the museum.
And when you look at Howe's account, Um, you know,
he continues on and condemns the protesters, and this is
what he says. Quote, he condemns their lack of nerve

(39:22):
to confront authority. And um he he himself wanted to
escalate things like that was kind of the point. He
was was fully determined to do that, and he rushed,
he rushed past the security guards into the museum. And
it's it's crazy too if you go back and you
try and find his official accounting of it or the

(39:44):
story that he wrote about it, because I was unable
to find an undoctored version of it. We I can
only find it in this or I guess a version
of it like this in the Guardian, and just really quickly,
The American Spectator is a far right conservative public case. Yeah,
it appears the magazine uh so altered the story right

(40:07):
and then pulled it, tried to pull it entirely, but
it had already been reported in papers of note. Uh.
The Washington Post had been reported in um online sources
that are opposed to far right publications, places like Fire Dog, Lake,
Daily Coast. Uh. We mentioned the earlier example of agent

(40:29):
provocateur or undercovers in New York, but there's another specific instance,
uh that resulted in actual criminal charges. This person was convicted. Uh,
they went to prison. Yeah, it's true. An undercover motorcycle
officer and unnamed undercover motorcycle officer was caught on video
breaking into a car window and actually assaulting the driver

(40:52):
of a vehicle that had hit another motorcycle. Uh. And
in he was sent to prison for second degree assault
co or shan riot and criminal mischief. And just to
continue on here, we haven't finished talking about the different
kinds of Asia provocateurs. Here. There are different versions, and

(41:13):
one of them been you already mentioned, called or a
tactic at least called astroturfing. Astroturfing is when something that
appears to be a grassroots on the ground movement or
community is in fact the creation of um, often a
front company or political institution, uh that is funneling power

(41:37):
from the status quo in into their they're so called
protest again, it's it's camouflage. Some people who appear to
protest are paid to do so, where they're being organized
by front groups that are funded by powerful corporations, powerful institutions.
There's an article I quite like and recommend from the

(41:59):
l a time in this This tells the story of
this an old one to this from It tells the
story of a firm called crowds on Demands. Have you
guys heard of these people? No, Ben, I've never heard
of that. What what tell me about it? So, Crowds
on Demand is firm based or was at the time

(42:21):
of firm based in Beverly Hills that hires protesters. You
back in the day, you could go to its website
and you would see that it provides its clients would
quote protests, rallies, flash mobs, paparazzi events, other inventive pr stunts.
We provide everything, including the people, the materials, and even
the ideas. But what kind of stuff have they been

(42:43):
hired to do? They they're hiring actors to do things
like lobby the City Council of New Orleans on behalf
of power plants, or to act like fake fans for
Life coaches at conferences in l A. It runs the gamut.
There was also someone who you know, there was a

(43:04):
lawsuit filed that said the Crowds on Demand organization does
much more shady stuff. And you know, we can make
this an episode of its own, but it has to
be mentioned here. Yeah, I agree, this is an entire episode.
You have probably read things online, either rumors or purported

(43:28):
facts about various various powerful people using such organizations like
Crowds on Demand to get people either to political rallies
or to you know, stand outside of a building in Washington,
d C. Or something. You know, you undoubtedly have seen
that stuff going around. And let's just say we're going

(43:50):
to continue to to look into it. Again. These are facts.
This is happening. This is a for people who are
unconcerned with the ethics. This is a good business for
them to be in UH. They are a kind of
what is called an opportunist. That people who started crowds
on demand are opportunists, there's a different thing that I

(44:11):
think would qualify as opportunists in in this realm UH
of navigating what how protests work and how these bad
actors work in them bad actors then, I guess is
a poor choice of words given crowds on demand, But
of course there are opportunists involved when when you see

(44:31):
UH reports talking specifically to the people who for some
reasons say, you know, I don't support this cause because
I see it depicted as um you know, associated with
acts of violence. Opportunists are real. It's it's part of
human nature. And think about it. If you want to

(44:54):
rob a store, for instance, and there is a protest
going on or unrest, straw riot in in a neighborhood, right,
what better time? What better time to strike? Law enforcement
is distracted, possibly overwhelmed, possibly in the midst of harming civilians.
Typical response times are just going to be slower depending

(45:17):
on your location and if you want to rob a
store located in the same area as a protest, you
can potentially get the power of numbers on your side.
Then there there's a lot of videos. I don't know
if opportunities is the right word here, but um of
of folks that are doing graffiti, whether it's Black Lives
Matter graffiti or like you know, a cab you know

(45:38):
the term of abuse for all cops are bastards and
all of this kind of graffiti that we're seeing now, Um,
there's lots of video circulating where actual peaceful protesters are
walking up to these individuals doing this and saying, why
are you doing this? We didn't ask you to do this,
Like people of color are walking up to you know,
maybe white marchers or whatever who are doing this and saying,

(46:00):
who asked you to do this? This is not helpful.
And and there's a lot of these videos circulating where
you know, folks are getting in each other's faces because
they're saying, oh, well, I I did it because I
support the cause, And then they're basically saying, well, this
is not helping us, This is not supporting the cause.
So I don't know if you would lump those folks
in as opportunitists or if they're just maybe overstepping I

(46:21):
don't know, but it definitely some folks just want to
watch the world burn and want to get out there
and cause trouble. And what better opportunity to be able
to go out there and do that than, you know,
masquerading behind the cause. So there you have it. There
are just numerous examples of someone, some group, some individual

(46:42):
infiltrating a peaceful protest movement for one reason or another,
for varying you know, um, seeking varying outcomes for doing so.
So let's say that you find yourself in the midst
of a protest, peaceful or otherwise, what do you need
to do to prepare yourself. We're going to talk about

(47:04):
that right after a word from our sponsor, and at
the top of this section, it's important to thank everybody
who reached out to us or to the show, uh
to to ask about this information. Um, We're we're gonna

(47:25):
run through real quick, some basic things, uh, some basic
resources for protests. Again, this is not in any way
meant to tell anyone anything about how to protest. These
are safety tips that have been time tested, right and
protests are approved organizations like Amnesty International have these brilliant

(47:49):
handy checklists that you can and should consult before hitting
the streets. This is not the time for improvisation. Here
here a few tips. We've got a physical checklist, right,
some basic things you should consider when protesting clothing, right, Yeah,
Ideally you want some kind of sturdy boots, some shoes

(48:09):
they're in a a stand up to having to run,
and also be careful not to wear you know, maybe
military surplus boots that are often worn by undercover police officers,
because you you don't want to be accused of that
for sure. Sturdy pants are important. Long sleeve top is
going to be important, and something you can use to
cover your face your head in case tear gas or

(48:31):
something else is released that's gonna make it difficult for
you to breathe. Yeah, and and and you know, this
is almost like it reminds me of our go bag episode.
And you know, these are just very functional tips of
things that maybe you wouldn't necessarily think of, but that
are gonna, you know, go a long way for you.
Water in a plastic bottle seems obvious, but a squirt
top if possible, because you may be able to use

(48:52):
that to flush out chemicals from your eyes. That's gonna
be really important, and that giving that stream a little
more worse is going to help make that happen and
flush out tear gas potentially from your eyes, which, as
it turns out, is like a a powder that is
that is converted into a mist. It's not even a liquid.
So it's literally like washing out you know, solids that

(49:15):
have found their way into your eyes. So the only
way to do that is, you know, what better alternative
to an eye wash station like in a science lab
than a pressure you know, propelled uh stream of water
from a from a squirt top water bottle. Um. And
also a little additive would be to have some baking
soda on hand that you can add to that water

(49:36):
solution three teaspoons of powder for every eight and a
half ounces of liquid. And then you know, just stuff
like snacks to keep your energy up, you know, like uh,
like a kind bar like like you know those uh
what are this called cliff bars things like that anything
that like is very nutrient dense um in a small package.
One quick important note about whether or not you should

(49:59):
bring your eye D or an I D with you
to a protest. The laws may vary state by states,
so be sure to check in advance before you hit
the streets. We'll talk a little bit about this in organization,
but the one I always say one crucial point to
remember is to physically write a contact number on your

(50:21):
arm for legal assistance. Don't don't make the mistake of
thinking that you'll have a phone or that you'll have
your phone working, because you may be offered a chance
if you're arrested detained to make one phone call, and
if you don't have that number with you, you may
not be able to find it. So write it on yourself.
Definitely bring some kind of money in the United States,

(50:44):
it's going to be paper. You might need this for
some kind of emergency situation, transportation, food, whatever it is.
Just make sure you don't carry a bunch of cash
because as we said, there are going to be undoubtedly
some opportunists around, or at least in a lot of cases,
there will be some who may see that as an
opportunity to take your money. And to be clear that

(51:08):
that term could apply to unethical police officers or law
enforcement as well. Speaking of which, uh, you know you
want to have a watch, you want to have paper,
and a pen um. You don't want to necessarily rely
on your phone. But I also saw a really interesting
point where you may want to turn off face recognition
unlocking from your phone because a bad actor, um law

(51:31):
enforcement agent could just hold it up to your face
and then have access to your entire um, your your
entire contact list, any potential notes that you have, you know,
and and could just go through your whole um life
on your phone and use that information against you. I
I would say perhaps a track phone would be a
good idea rather than your actual phone, because you know,

(51:55):
as we've talked about in previous episodes, there is tracking
technology when there are a lot of people gathered in
something like this, especially if it's a political protest where
law enforcement of one kind or another, maybe tracking to
see who is there. An airplane mode doesn't really make
a difference, to be honest with you. The only thing
that would make a big difference it would be physically

(52:17):
removing the battery or placing a phone in a fair
day cage, essentially a basic first aid kid if you
have room. Remember you're there to support and help your
fellow protesters and help your cause, not there to get
some kind of congratulatory selfie. Last thing, eye protection. Don't

(52:39):
wear contacts. These are these are small, very basic things.
They're there to protect you. What about an organization? Really quickly,
just back to social media. I thought it was very
interesting how there was this blackout Tuesday situation where people
were posting these black squares on Instagram, and there was
very quickly a backlash against that because people were using
the hashtag black Lives adder. And it really, it is

(53:02):
so important these hashtags. It seems frivolous when you think about, Oh,
social media is all about you know, showing out and
and and being seen and and uh, you know, kind
of lifestyle stuff. But when it comes to stuff like this,
those kinds of hashtags are how that information is organized.
So if you co opt a hashtag like black Lives
Matter for a black square, that's sort of a you know,
I don't want to call it performative, it's definitely an

(53:24):
act of solidarity. And I did it myself, but very
quickly people started posting, yo, don't use that hashtag because
you're erasing other people's actually valuable information that is using
that hashtag, and it's organized uh you know, ways to
search for you know, up to the minute information. So
they created a you know, hashtag blackout Tuesday. Um So,

(53:46):
I just think that's interesting how important social media is
in all of this kind of stuff. Another another important
basic thing to be aware of his organization. You know,
as you said at the top of this, it's still
at the time for improvisation. When you set off, have
a timetable, have people who are not at the protest
aware of your location and where you plan to be afterwards.

(54:11):
You can also have have accountability with your groups that
you go with. Have a meeting spot that is outside
where you think the protests will be, so you can
confirm everyone's safety, and so you can have a destination
and a plan. Situational awareness at a protest is highly important.
We would recommend avoiding drugs or alcohol or anything else

(54:33):
that's going to impair you know, your judgment or reaction time,
and you always have to be able to react to
that danger immediately and you know, not not be held
back by whatever substance you're doing. Not not to mention
you don't want to have some contraband on you that
can be also used against you if you are searched,

(54:54):
and then that gives you know, law enforcement a reason
to lock you up. Yeah, print out or obtain what's
called a bust card. Uh. This is think of like
it's like a very small, easy to carry piece of
paper that bullet points out your legal rights. Uh. Some dudes,
and don't contact numbers. Uh. You know you can find

(55:16):
many examples of this from different countries. Uh. And and
it's a handy thing to have. Of course. You know
the question there's who as a printer, right, you may
be in a situation where you find people who are
distributing these four free and lastly, just at all times
to be ready to you know, help out someone who's
next to you who is protesting. You can provide support

(55:38):
for people in all sorts of different ways, you know,
especially if there's somebody who you know is getting tired,
who has some kind of metal medical condition, who is dehydrated,
or has been injured for one reason or another. Just
remember to you know, be there for for everyone, and
also to not not let bad actors go unnoticed. Let's

(55:59):
talk about being equally important, which is it may be
more important, which is what not to do. Uh. So
in some of our conversation, it's obvious that people have
different opinions, and everybody has the same specific answers, but
these things are pretty solid first, and I think this
answer is a lot of questions people have about what
they should or shouldn't bring. Don't carry things that you

(56:22):
cannot afford to lose. Do not assume everyone is there
for the same reason as you. Yeah, I think we've
more than covered. That's sort of the whole point of
this episode is that there are many reasons, many agendas
that might lead people to come to these types of events,
and and a lot of them are not in your
best interest. People are not aligned with what you are

(56:44):
there for a lot of the time. So just depth,
never assume, and and don't wear things that can easily
be grabbed. Um. You know, you might want to put
your hair up in a tight bun rather than wearing
it and pigtails or a ponytail, or something that can
be allowed used to drag you to the ground for example.
Um or you know, pieces of clothing that are very

(57:05):
baggy that could be grabbed as well, that that would
be something that that you would want to avoid. And
there are a lot of things you could put on
your body. A lot of them are moisturizers, or would
be used as some kind of moisturizers sometimes sunscreens, mineral
oils or vasilines. These things can actually trap some of
the chemicals that may be sprayed in your direction were

(57:25):
released uh and and hit you and it will stick
to your skin. Uh And you know it will essentially
amplify the effects. So do not don't do that. And
this is difficult, but do your best to think critically.
Be aware that misinformation as well as active disinformation. UM.

(57:45):
Misinformation is kind of something that's accidentally not true. Disinformation
is something that's purposely not true. That's the best way
to remember it. Both of these can proliferate at an
extremely quick rate, especially when we see lines of traditional
normal communication breaking down. And lastly, do not go alone

(58:06):
if you can help it. Yeah, I would say that's
that's pretty important. At the very least, if you have
to go alone, make sure someone's got your back remotely
and that they know where you are and that you
can reach somebody to let them know. Uh if if
things go south. We hope this information is helpful. Again,

(58:27):
there are more resources, many many organizations that have these
bus cards, that have these checklists, that have recommendations dues
and don't please do look into these And again, there
is one main takeaway from this episode, the conspiracy to
discredit and to escalate protests. Counter two, The aims of

(58:51):
a protest are real. This stuff does happen. Agent provocateurs
do exist. They're not some sort of mythical east. The
real ones can operate successfully and he can get away
with it and just just really quick to sew up
a couple of things that we sort of foreshadowed, like
you know there again, there's a lot of information moving
very quickly, especially right now as things have escalated with

(59:15):
our situation in the United States. But the notion of
you know, things like piles of bricks showing up um
and old model police cars being put out like as
bait or something, a lot of that has been largely discredited. Um.
That's not to say that it's not possible that these
things are are real. Uh. And it's also a slippery

(59:39):
slope when you talk about blaming a movement or a
protest on external forces that are not uh, you know
germane to that outcry that that that surrounds that particular protest.
It's a way of like kind of like neutering you know,
the power of that movement by saying, oh, it's actually

(01:00:00):
being caused not by the real reason that it's being caused,
but by something else. And I think we've done a
good job today of of of differentiating those things. But
I just want to make you know, make sure that
that that's clear. And we have to absolutely remember that
when we are on social media, whatever platform you use, UH,
you have to be extremely vigilant when analyzing and sharing stuff.

(01:00:23):
Whatever the post is, no matter how much you agree
with it, you just have to be careful and really
analyze it. Because there have been, as you said, there
know a lot of false reports that have come out
essentially as rumors that that have just spread across social media.
And you know, we kind of you mentioned the bricks.
There have been several examples posted out there that have

(01:00:46):
been proven to not have anything to do with uh,
you know, purposeful planting for uses with protesters or during
the protest to escalate things. Um. You know, I made
a note here just to call to call the one
that occurred in Sherman Oaks, California, where there were these
metal metal enclosures filled with stones, and BuzzFeed News and

(01:01:07):
some other people did some you know, looking into this
and found out that this was actually a security or
these were security structures for a Jewish community building in
Sherman Oaks, California, and they've been installed like a year ago,
prior to the protests. But that doesn't mean that every
instance where bricks have been found or some kind of

(01:01:28):
projectile heavy projectiles have been found stashed near protest area
doesn't mean that every one of those is just an
innocuous thing. It means you have to analyze each one
of them individually, especially because, as it said earlier, protests
nowadays occur in digital space. Please please please check out

(01:01:48):
the earlier work on the proliferation of bots. Russian and
non Russian alike. Foreign and domestic forces are gaming the system,
their muddying the waters. They're altering the narrative with great
success in the past, and the president is no different
and the future probably won't be either. I have a
lighthearted example of this. My favorite current example of this

(01:02:12):
phenomenon is the k pop fans online who are flooding
far right wing hashtags with some of their favorite Korean pop.
That is uh, it is fantastic to see. I recommend
checking that out. If you want a little bit of
a pick me up in these uh, these incredibly terrible times.

(01:02:36):
I mean this is these last few months have been
the longest year ever. Yeah, it really has been. Whoever
controls this whole timeline thing that we're living in this
multiverse is really piling on right now, cut it out,
whoever you are, Geez Louise. Yeah. And then just to
just you know, for a final note, and this is

(01:02:57):
something that I have a lot of questions around because
again were talking about, like with social media, so much
information is able to be kind of hijacked and used,
uh in a way that's it's very share able. Uh,
therefore it is proliferated, but it could absolutely and often
is misinformation. But one final example, UM is is you
know a lot of rumors going around, uh you know,

(01:03:20):
on on social media about groups such as UM what's
referred to collectively as antifa UM going out to suburban
areas or rural areas to carry out acts of violence.
And I just want to take this opportunity to clarify
UM something that I've personally been a little in the
dark about the notion of antifa I understand to mean
anti fascist, which sounds like a positive thing to me,

(01:03:43):
being anti fascist, but it's been kind of commodified as
a term of abuse and almost taken on the tone
of like this is a terrorist group, the Antifa. But
my understanding is that no such group per se exists.
Um It's not a monaker that is associated with like
a particular you know, mission statement or a group of people.

(01:04:05):
It's just kind of a a morphous collective. Um So,
can you we just talk a little bit about what
antifa means and how it's being used, just to give
folks a little perspective on that, um I. I would,
you know, with having limited understanding of this, I would
just say that has been used in the media recently,
and you know in the past couple of decades. Two

(01:04:29):
really represent any number of smaller groups that would consider
themselves perhaps anarchists or or people who are against the
the status quo systems that are set up and just
wish to see change there. But you know, it really
depends on which organization is reporting at the time or

(01:04:50):
who's who's talking about them. I believe that um I
man mentioned this earlier. The phrase has a lot in
common with the phrase anonymous, an earlier activist group that
has recently been back in the news. The Achilles heel
of this kind of grouping is that there is obviously

(01:05:10):
no official certification to be an anti fascist group UM.
And the key is there is also no official certification
to claim oneself a member of anonymous. I will say,
if you want to um, dehumanize or vilify, or you know,
use a thought terminating cliche to get past people's critical

(01:05:33):
thinking faculties, then of course you make a term, make
a term that is pretty short, is easy to understand,
and that itself, while being a portmanteau, is not you know,
an existing word or you change it right. Uh. And
this this is a tactic that's employed often. I would
like to I would like to note several things that

(01:05:55):
we have not covered in this episode. We've not covered
anti FA. I think the anti fascism organization, the evolution
of that term deserves its own episode, as do specific
instances of people attempting to capitalize on on a movement
or protest for their own ends. Splinter groups, you know,

(01:06:18):
militia are in there. There are a lot of Internet
warriors who are talking on a forum and a certain
amount of them are going uh into protests to attempt
to push their agenda. These are things that we we
have to cover in a future episode and we need
your help. Yeah, so let us know what you think.
You can write to us online UM in the various

(01:06:41):
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(01:07:01):
phone with you. Our number is one eight three three
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what you think about all of this stuff. And if

(01:07:22):
you don't want to do any of that stuff, but
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