June 6, 2015 • 41 mins
Assassins murdered President John F. Kennedy in 1963. Five years later, his brother Robert was assassinated. Coincidence? On the anniversary of RFK's murder, Ben, Matt and Noel take a closer look at the events surrounding the tragedy.
Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
From UFOs two, ghosts and government cover ups. History is
widdled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or
learn the stuff they don't want you to now. I
have a short announcement which I will read at this time.
Senator Robert Francis Kennedy died at one am today June six.
(00:24):
With Senator Kennedy at the time of his death was
his wife Ethel, his sisters Mrs Patricia Lawford and Mrs
Stephen Smith, his brother in law Stephen Smith, and his
sister in law Mrs John F. Kenning. He was forty
two years old. Frank make A was kennedy Press secretary,
as reported by The New York Times June six, Thank
(00:49):
you for that reading, Noel. Yeah, that was fantastic. Absolutely,
Welcome back to the show everyone. My name is matt
On Ben And that dramatic reading you heard at the
top of a podcast comes from, of course, our super
producer Null, the second Gunman Brown. Most importantly, however, you're here.
Welcome to stuff they don't want you to know. Yes,
(01:11):
welcome to you now. Forty seven years ago today, on
June five, Robert F. Kennedy was assassinated. And what what
you heard was Noel reading that announcement. Um, it was
a very somber day. And today we're gonna talk about
the this assassination. We're gonna look at the official stories.
(01:32):
We're gonna look at the alternative theories and also the
current theories about what really happened. Yes, some more recent stuff.
But as somebody said to Alice at the tea party,
let's start at the beginning. We'll go through the middle,
we'll stop at the end. That sounds great if this
story hasn't end. Did that also Wonderland reference work? You think?
(01:55):
I think so. I just I don't remember who said it,
the mad Hatter or the dormouse. That mormouse didn't do
that much. I know that because I played the dormouse
one time in a in a high school thing. Oh really,
yeah it was. It was a shining moment. Do you
have a video of that? Uh? No, absolutely not. Okay,
so no, Um, but we can always just stage our
(02:17):
own right. Absolutely, we're an Alice short I think. So. Uh,
let's go ahead and get some background here, just a
very high level thing. Now, this is an issue we
should disclaim first. This is an issue that you and
I have talked about uh. For for a while, we
had an earlier video that came out on this we did.
(02:38):
We had an earlier video specifically on Robert Kennedy's assassination
focused It focused on sire and sirehand and the idea
of a Enturian candidate, which we will get too later,
But we really want to start at the beginning here
and talk about who RFK was, why why it was
an extremely important and sad day when he was shocked,
(03:00):
And of course yes, it is an important and tragic
time every in every instance where someone dies by gunfire
or by violence. Absolutely, I guess I should say, um,
I don't know it. He had the possibility to make
large changes and and he even made in several of
(03:21):
his speeches. He spoke about this idea that a lot
of people can make a difference in their local area
and in small events, but very few people will have
the ability to make changes on a wide, almost worldwide basis. Right,
And this is such a this is such an involved
and examined topic, this assassination, that we want everybody to
(03:43):
know from the top that we're not going to be
able to get to everything. So instead of asking at
the end, we would like to ask here at the beginning,
and probably a little bit later for you guys to
reach out to us at our email address, our Facebook
and our Twitter conspiracy stuff at the Facebook and Twitter
conspiracy how stuff works for the email and let us
know if there's some other theories you think we should
(04:05):
bring up, let us know if there are some corrections,
and uh, let us let us know. You know what
you think personally, even if you don't have any proof,
that's okay. We just want to hear other opinions, all right.
So here with that long preamble, And I learned a
fancy word for that, by the way. It's such a
useless word, are you ready? Pro lagominon pro logominon like
(04:29):
pro lego manonic. It means brief introductory remarks, so almost prologue, huh,
like the phenomenon of a prologue. Very nice, and I
may be mispronouncing it, sorry everybody. So here we are.
Robert Francis Kennedy, whom we will refer to as RFK
(04:49):
for most of this podcast, was born in November of
nineteen Now, he was the son of privilege. There's no
way around that. He was born into the Kennedy dynasty,
which had risen from you know, bootlegging. Uh, that's that's
one of the big allegations and stories. But at the
(05:10):
time he was born, the Kennedy family was already pretty
well established, and he took one of them. He took
a fairly standard but uh, spotless well done trajectory that
you see a lot of young people born into political
dynasties or families with political aims taking right, Yeah, that's right.
(05:30):
He served in the U. S. Naval Reserve from nineteen
forty four to nineteen forty six. He went to Harvard
and the University of Virginia School of Law. He also
worked at the Boston Post and as an attorney in Washington,
d c. Right, And in nineteen fifty one he began
working for the Internal Security section of the U. S.
(05:52):
Department of Justice is Criminal Division, and by June of
the next year he resigned to manage his brother Jack
his payn for the Massachusetts Senate. Now, this was his
first and official launch into his political career, right, and
that campaign for the Senate seat in Massachusetts was successful.
(06:13):
There are there are a lot of Kennedy brothers here,
So we're going to refer to some of them as
first names. But there's one that you knew, of course
we had mentioned ladies and gentlemen, and that is John F. Kennedy.
When Robert's brother, John F. Kennedy won the nineteen sixty
presidential election, he John I mean appointed his brother Robert
to the position of attorney general, despite the fact that
(06:36):
Robert didn't have experience in state or federal court. Yeah,
that's right. Kind of a little strange, but I guess
expected when you have those kind of ties at that level. Yeah.
But then also, regardless of where you like to place
yourself in political ideology, it's I personally don't think it's
(06:59):
the best this for something purporting to be a republic
or meritocracy to uh, to to rely on nepotism, but
to be able to even do that, right, But this
is again, this is a story where we know very
little of the behind the scenes stuff. Sure, I just
wanted to make that absolutely and RFK didn't do a
bad job. That's what I wanted to get to. So,
(07:22):
even though there was some nepotism going on in his
appointment to this to this level, he made a name
for himself. He he went in there, he started fighting
organized crime, corruption, even institutionalized racism. Yeah, like prosecuting corrupt teamsters,
working with civil rights movements. You can find pictures of
him with Martin Luther King Jr. Yeah, he was basically
(07:44):
making a lot of enemies on all sorts of different fronts, right. Yes,
Also he was often seen in many social circles as
a hero of people who are typically marginal. Wise, there's
a twist here, of course, which you all see see coming.
(08:05):
In nineteen three, on November two, the standing President John F.
Kennedy was assassinated, and Robert Kennedy, like many other people
at the time, was certain that multiple folks were involved
in this murder, not just Lee Harvey Oswald. Oh. Yeah,
he was suspicious of the MOB, of the CIA, even
(08:29):
of LBJ, at least there that he was. He was
rumored to be suspicious of LBJ. Right, And there was
suspicion of possible Soviet involvement, uh anti Castro Cuban factions,
any of the groups you and I just named working together.
And you know, of course, we know that kind of
(08:49):
speculation thrives after an important death. There are people who
will tell you that Elvis was still alive until quite recently,
and I know that's not a great compare Sin, but
but I'm saying these opinions that he had, or these
beliefs were not by any means unreasonable at the time. No,
And and there are a lot of people who are
(09:10):
close to him at the time that have said that
he was he felt personally responsible for the death of
his brother because of the enemies he was making as
the Attorney general. It's fascinating stuff and for me, it's
it's kind of sad to think about that mind state
of where he must have been when you find out
found out about his brother. Yeah. So in nineteen sixty five,
(09:32):
Robert Kennedy became a senator, New York Senator, and in
nineteen sixty eight he launched the presidential campaign and it
seemed to be going pretty well. Um yeah, that's March sixteenth,
nineteen sixty eight, and it was going very well. He
looked like he had a serious shot. You know. I
I talked to my parents about Robert Kennedy when we
(09:53):
first made our our video about him. And I think
I've mentioned this before or maybe in the Mentoring in
Canada pot podcast, but how enamored they were with him
at the time because of he was, like you said,
giving the voice to people that hadn't really had one
in politics for a good long time, at least at
that level. And Uh, Man, I don't know. I'm I'm
(10:16):
not getting choked up. I was getting choked up earlier.
And I hate to admit that, but I was getting
choked up watching these videos of him online giving speeches
and it makes me wish. It kind of reminds me
of um the president President Obama's campaign when he was
running where I was just the ideas that were coming
out of that man's mouth made me want to believe
(10:37):
in something better and I think that's what RFK was
doing for that generation at the time. Well. And also
given the death of his brother as a president, Uh,
there's a great sense of purpose or righteousness that I
think transmits very well. So he he had UM he
(10:59):
had a decent shot at the presidency and we'll see
how close he came. But that stopped in June five,
and it stopped abruptly because Robert Kennedy was also assassinated.
He was shot by a young man at the time
named sir Han. Sir Han. So our question here and
a question that people asked in the wake of the tragedy,
(11:20):
and almost fifty years later, are still asking is this
what happened? Well, here's the official story. Like we said,
things were looking pretty good for our f k's presidential campaign.
The Democratic primary elections in California were on June four.
The results were in rfk's favor, that's fort to his
opponent McCarthy's. And this was this was the running for
(11:47):
the Democratic candidate spot. Yes, yes, uh and and just
so we just I hate to throw some cold water
on there, but also let's keep in mind that uh
Kennedy was facing what was considered an unrealistic race against
President Lyndon Johnson. Yes, because Lyndon Johnson was popular as
(12:10):
being seemed like carrying the torch and absolutely a wake
of the JFK assassination. But still he in terms of
the democratic stuff, he was he was cooking with gas.
So about four hours after the polls closed, UM Robert
went and spoke to his reporters at the Embassy Room
ballroom at the Ambassador Hotel in Los Angeles. And the
(12:33):
government provides this is this is really important. The government
provides secret Service protection for incumbents, right, but not for candidates. Right.
So if Lyndon B. Johnson is campaigning, then he has
Secret Service protection. But if his opponent Robert Kennedy or
Eugene mccarthyer campaigning, then they don't get that automatic protection. Instead,
(12:57):
RFK had three security people and FBI agent William Barry
and two former pro athletes who were sort of unofficial bodyguards. Now,
RFK was planning to mingle with some of his supporters
in the ballroom before going to this other gathering in
the same hotel. But journalists wanted this press conference. They
got deadlines. Well yeah, I mean, well, you want to
(13:18):
get a piece of just a little something, maybe one
or two lines from the guy who might win in
this election, and you know that's that's a big deal
for a journalist. Well, shure, it's a big deal, but
it's also expected. You don't get bonus credit for it.
You get fired if you don't do your job. That's
exactly right now. Our rfk's campaign Stafford Fred Dutton, asked
(13:42):
RFK to skip the second meeting, take a shortcut through
the hotel kitchen. But this basically behind the ballroom where
the employees travel, and he was gonna get there go
basically take a shortcut to meet the press. Okay, to
get to the press area. Now that's a great question
if you're asking it. Why didn't they just go the
right regular way? Why take the shortcut? Here's the thing.
(14:02):
RFK popular guy, always a people person, and apparently he
was always pausing to press the flesh, shake the hands,
kiss the babies as so it could be tough to
get him in and out places. You really had to
had to guide him as a handler. Yeah, you really
got to be hands on with him, right, And so
he was pausing to meet people as they were walking
(14:24):
through the kitchen, which you know, I think is cool,
is the idea of meeting somebody who might one day
be president. As he was shaking hands with an employee
named Juan Romero, a bus boy, uh, a guy rushed
from beside the ice machine, a young man named Sir
Hans sura Han firing a twenty two caliber Ivor Johnson
(14:45):
Cadet revolver. Now RFK got shot three times. One bullet
entered his head behind his right ear, the other two
at the rear of his right armpit, and the second
bullet exited his chest, but the third one stuck in
his neck, so he is conscious. He is lucid. The
first one of the first things he's asking when people
(15:05):
are talking to him, sir Han. Sirhan, by the way,
is instantly like tackled to the ground. Uh. They're asking
the first thing he asks everything is everyone safe? Are
they okay? Uh? He's rushed off to try to sit
in an attempt to save his life. Uh. They do
about four almost four hours of surgery on him. I
want to say, like three hours forty minutes. But despite
(15:26):
their efforts, he died on one am June six, about
twenty six hours later at two am. Uh. Frank Mankowitz,
the spokesperson for the campaign, made the official statement that
Noel interpreted for us at the top of the show. Searhan.
Searhan is as of this recording, currently sentenced to life
(15:48):
in prison the Richard J. Donovan Correctional Facility. So let's
get into this. What what's the motivation? Why would seer
Han Saran do this? What we know is that Sian
sire And was a Palestinian Christian with Georganian citizenship, and
investigators at the time believed that he murdered RFK or
at least shot RFK for because of the candidates support
(16:11):
of Israel, which he saw is endangering the population of Palestine.
He was very young at the time, he was only
twenty four. One of the chief pieces of evidence for
this that you can read is that his diary contained
evidence of pre meditation, including written phrases like RFK must
(16:32):
die over and over, Robert F. Kennedy must be assassinated
over and over uh, and sometimes citing specifically that this
murder must occur before the fifth of June ninety eight.
And here's the thing, guys, Assassinations can happen for all
sorts of reasons, and this is a perfectly believable one.
(16:53):
People have been shot historically for less, so why people
even today believe that this is the whole story. We'll
get to that in just a moment, but first we're
going to take a quick break for a word from
our sponsor. Here's where it gets crazy. Now, we can't
(17:15):
do all of these We talked about that earlier, so
we're gonna take a high level approach um, and like
Ben said, please write in for any more details or
any other conspiracies you think we missed here or you
would like to see us cover in the future. I'm
sure there are quite a few. Oh yeah, we could
probably make an entire separate podcast, not like an episode,
but a whole podcast. Yes stuff, RFK and JFKs killers
(17:38):
don't want you to know. Yeah, we could have a
new episode every week. But until that happens, if it does.
Here are a few of the most common, let's call them,
alternative theories to the story behind rfk's assassination, if not
both assassinations. So the first one is that the CIA,
(18:01):
the Central Intelligence Agency in the United States, is somehow involved.
There's a filmmaker named Shane O'Sullivan. He's made several pieces,
I believe on this on these subjects, and in one
of them he believes that or he he um, he
states with some evidence when he actually spoke with several
people who believe that CIA officers were present on the
(18:23):
night of rfk's assassination. Yeah right, I mean, I don't
mean like, yeah right sarcastically, but that's correct that O'Sullivan
says this. So these three guys, again allegedly were identified
as c i A officers, senior officers who had worked
at the main ant castro station out there in Miami.
(18:44):
The three men listed were the chief Officer of Operations,
a fellow named David Morales, the chief of Maritime Operations,
a guy named Gordon Campbell, and the chief of psychological
Warfare a guy named George Johannades. Also, we should point
out that it would seem that several of these claims
were incorrect, specifically the one about Gordon Campbell, because it
(19:09):
would seem that he Campbell died of a heart attack
six years prior to this assassination. At least there are
records stating that he did, yeah, and not reck not
records as in people's letters to each other, records as
in death so old. Sullivan's film also features an interview
with an attorney named Robert Walton, who apparently worked with
(19:31):
or for David Morales. At some point. Walton says in
the film, I quote, I was in Dallas when we
got The Son of A and I was in Los
Angeles when we got The Little Bastard. Oh sorry, no,
I I thought we could say bastard. Can we say bastard? Noel?
Of course you could say bastard come on and yeah,
(19:53):
that's yeah, Well we do. Our beefs live here. Interesting
thing about this film is the ci A to klimbed
to comment, There's an interesting note here too that I'd
like to make. It is true, ladies and gentlemen, that
one of the reasons the term conspiracy theory is so
popular in the mainstream is that shortly after the assassination
(20:14):
of JFK, the CIA propagated some memos, distributed some memos
advising people on how to handle folks who said the
official story wasn't true. And one of the big things
they said is call it a conspiracy theory, call them
conspiracy theorists. That's a fact, and you can check. I
think you can find that actual document or a copy
(20:35):
of it online, right yeah. And since then, if you
hear in the news someone using the phrase conspiracy theory
or theorist, it just equates with sure, right yeah, because
HSBC laundering money for drug cartels is the exact same
thing as a secret race of half reptile aliens. Yeah,
(20:58):
it's completely equivalent. Pretty much apples apples there. But O'Sullivan
didn't stop at that one film. He produced another film
or created another film in two thousand seven. Yes, that
one was called RFK Must Die, and that updated some
of those earlier erroneous claims, including most particularly the one
(21:18):
about Gordon Campbell. So that's the that's part of the
CIA involvement. You'll also hear stuff about a woman in
a polka dot dress, which which I think will be
familiar to a lot of people have looked at this. Uh,
there's the theory of a second gunman next, which is
not mutually exclusive. Right, No, no, not at all. Several
(21:39):
of these could be working together. Who knows, um. But
in this one, authorities say that eight bullets were fired,
three hitting Robert Kennedy and the rest striking five other victims,
all of whom survived. Lawyers William F. Pepper and Laurie
Dussick claim analysis of audio recordings actually show that there
(21:59):
are thirteen shots that were fired from multiple guns, and
that's five more shots than sir Han could fire from
the twenty two that he had in his possession. Yeah,
because of the clip side, So that all of that
makes me go, hume, Yeah, but it's it's an audio recording,
so it's not It is completely true that sir Han
(22:20):
Surhan was in there with a gun, fired it and
this politician died. That is inarguable. Sirhan and the defense
team have continuously or consistently appealed this stuff. Uh, the
Attorney General, Kamala Harris, was not persuaded by some of
these appeals, saying that the allegations fell short of dismantling
(22:42):
the prosecution's overwhelming case against him. And so, while we're
on the subject of sir Han Surhan, which could deserve
its own podcast alone, we want to just talk a
little bit briefly about this Manchurian candidate thing that you've
heard us throw around a long time, was yours? Well,
the show hasn't been on that long in the audio,
(23:03):
but well, I guess people have watched the videos for
a while too, are already familiar with this concept that
we did an audio show about the possibility of a
Manchurian candidate. What, Matt, what is that? What? What do
we mean when we say that? Well, the term itself
was popularized or even coined by Richard Condon in his
book from nineteen fifty nine, called maturing candidate or the
(23:25):
Maturian candidate. And we've again, we've talked about this a lot.
The definition really is an assassin who is kind of
an unwitting assassin who is unaware that they are an assassin.
Either with through brainwashing or some other technique, this person
is convinced by a third party to murder someone else,
(23:48):
and they're usually activated somehow, like with a woman with
a polka dot address. When you see this woman, you
will need you will go and kill your target. Right,
that's the idea that there's some sort of trigger word,
phrase or image. So do be cautious if a stranger
approaches you and whispers something very specific in your head.
(24:08):
But that's the thing. If you are a man Turing candidate,
you aren't aware that you are, and you will have
no idea when someone whispers the trigger words to you.
Write and for the vast majority of people, this is
filed under interesting yet complete bs because the thing here
is that it has not been proven in a scientific way.
(24:31):
There there's no solid, peer reviewed evidence that shows people
can be programmed to that level of sophistication. There is
evidence that shows you can easily influence people in ways
that don't understand. Like right now, I have a hot
cup of coffee in my hand, and there are a
(24:51):
couple of studies that show that if a stranger comes
in here right now and starts talking to Matt and
I and let's say Matt had a cold drink. What's
a kind of cold drink you would have? So okay,
So Matt has Matt has a soby ice cold delicious,
soby I've got a I've got a steaming cup of coffee.
Then this study showed that the temperature of the drink
(25:14):
we are holding has a measurable influence on our perception
of this stranger. Matt will be likely too. I know
it sounds so dumb. It does sound, but Matt will be,
according to this research, more likely to be objective, maybe
less likely to be to empathize with them, whereas I
(25:38):
will be much warmer, I'd be cold, you'd be There's
also okay, just while we're on it. This total tangent.
But if you are working at a job and you
don't know a lot of people and you want them
to think you're a team player, get a picture of
a dog, frame it and put it on your desk.
It won't work if it's a cat and it doesn't matter,
(26:00):
or if you're in the picture. I mean, if you
really want to be a moral and unethical about it,
it doesn't have to be your dog. Although I think
lying that way will come back to bite you, and
it's not a good practice. And apparently that picture of
a dog will prime people to think of you as
a trustworthy, loyal team player. Wait, Ben, what I was
(26:22):
thinking of some pictures on your desk? Yeah, yeah, that's no,
that's a real dog. It's a real dog. Is it
your dog? Moving on, So sir Han has actually gone
into this manchurion candidate territory. I guess you would call it, because,
as we said, he was sentenced to life in prison.
(26:43):
He did not receive the death penalty. Uh. And he
has continued his uh, the appeals process. He claims he
has no recollection of the murder whatsoever. In an appeal
in two thousand eleven, his lawyers repeated this previous assertion
and they had reports from people they said were experts
(27:05):
who said that sir Han Sarhan was programmed through hypnosis
to fire shots as a diversion for the real killer.
And that was in the latest appeal uh two thousand eleven,
I believe denied officially in two thousand twelve. That's that
is movie stuff right there. It sounds it sounds like
(27:25):
the plot of film. To write of a thriller of
political intrigue, film, the idea that someone could be programmed
to do that sort of stuff and then in the aftermath,
which sir Han Sarhan argued, Uh, in the aftermath have
their memory wiped so that they don't remember who told
them to do it or how. It just seems complicated.
(27:50):
It seems pretty convenient way, um for as a story. Yeah,
so that's a great that's a great point. Is this
a legitimate events? Is this evidence of mental instability? And
as as as other studies show, uh, spending your life
in prison is not conducive to one's mental health? Or
(28:12):
is this just a desperate, dishonest attempt to gain freedom? Right?
I mean maybe. Man, It's it's tough. It's so tough
to view from this angle, right, I want to believe
in some as it sounds horrible, but I want to
believe that something that fantastical could be real, right, that
(28:35):
there would be that sort of level of Um, I guess,
I guess science or technology to to be able to
do something like that. Don't get me wrong. He's terrifying. Yeah,
it's terrifying, and it's horrible the way if it's true,
the way it was used. But I wish I want
to live in a world where things like that are possible,
like things that are otherworldly. Almost uh. Some people would
(28:59):
say that you do. Unfortunately again at this point, or
maybe fortunately there's a better way to put it there,
there isn't any evidence that that level of influencing a
person can happen. Now. There's there is evidence, of course
of brainwashing, right, stuff like Stockholm syndrome, right, and Patty
(29:22):
Hurst joining the people who kidnapped her, right, or people
being members of cults or other organizations that are similar
to cults. And Darren Brown did well supposedly demonstrate that
he could create a Mansurian candidate. Yes, yes, he did, yeah,
and that is for television, for television, of course, and
(29:42):
that was a carefully controlled thing, so it's not like
he was setting this person out to be triggered and
assault people. However, what the big difference here in this
idea of a Manchurian candidate would be that the Manurion
candidate exists as a separate ums like a soft wear program,
like a hidden software program or protocol inside a larger
(30:05):
operating system of a human personality, whereas brainwashing usually the
when people are brainwashed, they still understand like they remember
what they're doing. They still understand the concept of the past,
the concept of the future. Right. Uh, They're not some
(30:26):
sort of automaton arguably, and we should. I would love
to talk to Occult the programmer or something like that.
What do you think so we've got well tell us
if you have any access to cult the programmers that
you think are legitimate, because we would like to get
their story out there. We have one last one here,
(30:50):
which is not not really fair, but it was all
a coincidence. Uh. When JFK was shot in sixty three
and when RFK was shot in sixty eight, these were
entirely unrelated incidents. Lone Madman, Lee Harvey Oswald, Sirhan Sirhan
assassinated these politicians and brothers for entirely separate reasons, and
(31:16):
they just happened to both be from the same political
dynasty very high in the ranks of US politics. For me,
one of the strangest things here is that we didn't
have presidential assassinations during the Great Wars in World War
One and World War Two in the US. But then
(31:39):
they there too. And Okay, RFK was not a president,
but he was a presidential candidate and having two of
them happen in just back to back and being brothers,
I don't know, right, And I think that's an interesting
point to make because we know that while there have
been numerous attempts to assassin senate presidents um more than
(32:03):
twenty if we count former presidents, uh, that that we
know of, at least, uh, there have been only four
presidents that were successfully assassinated. That's Lincoln, Garfield, McKinley, and Kennedy. Now,
other presidents were injured in attempted assassinations, the most recent
(32:24):
being Ronald Reagan, but the every single president has been
at least since John F. Kennedy has been threatened by
someone with an assassination. I think that just goes with
the job, honestly, in the way communication is changing. Right.
That's a really good point too, so is it? Is
(32:47):
it an entirely unrelated thing for some people? The those
different commonalities just are circumstantial but too strong to ignore.
But of course, you know, the truth is, regardless of
what happened, that both of these people were killed, and
it could have been a coincidence, at least according to
(33:09):
the official stories, which find no connection between the murders,
which comes back to um leads us to rather one
of my favorite parts of this show. Matt, I'm gonna
put you on the spot here. Okay, what do you think?
What do you think about this thing? Coincidence related motivations,
(33:30):
possible players. Well, I I find myself being swayed a
little too easily when I watched documentaries. But there is
a lot of information that I've been finding, both in
JFK's situation and rfk's situation that makes me suspicious of
(33:53):
Lyndon Johnson's administration. I'm not saying that he did it.
I am interested in connections between l vj's administration and
perhaps some of the people that RFK made enemies of
when he was Attorney General. And I don't know enough
about that right now, but I am That's where I'm
(34:13):
interested in looking. Yeah, he was anti War two, if
he ran on anti war platform, if I recall correctly. Yeah,
for me, it's it's difficult because I want to you know,
I want all of the information right, and it's still there.
There are still things that people don't agree on. But
(34:37):
in both cases, in both JFK's case and rf case case,
the official investigation is more or less close you know,
the Warren Commission did their bit. Um. There were investigations
into rfk's death, and they plan it squarely on Sir Hans.
Sir han Um. I'm just um, I'm perplexed. I think
(34:58):
most by h the fact that Sara and Saran is
still alive and imprisoned and filing appeals using the appeal process,
uh continually or when whenever the opportunity presents, and saying
that he was saying that he was brainwashed and then
(35:18):
brain white. You know that's spooky stuff. Yeah, but he's
just a conspiracy theorist. Ben He's well, people would say,
he's just a convicted murderer trying to trying to get out. Right.
So now we're going to pass the question to you,
ladies and gentlemen. What do you think about all this?
Do you have? Are there any people that we didn't
talk about in this episode? Oh there are a lot actually,
(35:40):
well yeah that you really think could be I don't know,
a suspect right to us, Please find us on Facebook,
find us on Twitter. Were conspiracy stuff at both of
those also, I mean, if you really want to, you
could send us an email. Ah. Yes, And while we're
on that subject, Matt, No, what do you guys think.
Let's do a little listener mail. Here's a message we
(36:06):
got from Kelly. Hey, guys, you should do a podcast
on the Avro Aero CF one oh five. This super
jet was amazing until the Canadian government canceled it in
nineteen fifty nine. The cancelation day is known as Black
Friday in Canadian aviation history. All planes, components, production, tooling, equipment,
and technical data was scrapped. The story is filled with
(36:28):
conspiracies regarding why the program was canceled. The story involves
Russian spies and the fallout leading leading to scientists involved
in NASA and the Concord Jet. Cheers and keep up
the great work, Kelly. So this is interesting, the super
jet Avro Aero CF one oh five. Do you know
anything about this? You know, it's funny. It's funny that
(36:50):
you say this, or that we're reading this letter because Kelly,
I believe that you also rode into car stuff to
ask us if we wanted to over this UM. I
have looked into it a little bit, but it is
definitely a pretty good suggestion. I you know, it kind
of spans both car stuff and stuff they don't want
(37:12):
you to know. Right, well, you know what that means.
We're gonna do a joint episode. Yeah, why not? We
maybe we can have Scott over on that on this show,
or maybe we can do a video about it. We'll
see what goes up with. There's one other thing, ladies
and gentlemen, you know what that sound means. It's time
(37:32):
for a moment with our super producer, No, the second
gun man Brown. Hey, no, pretty well, we just wanted
to check in with you. We uh, just got done
with the episode. So what's going on? No, nothing much,
you know, just the usual, just listening to you guys
editing on episode on mass extinction from a different show. What, yeah,
(37:56):
which one is it? Is it? Oh? Yeah? Yeah, yeah,
I'm looking forwards to that. It's a massive station because
we're in we're in the anthropos scene, right, the age
of man or something right for a little while longer,
for a little while longer. Well, I'm Noel, I'm glad
you could check in and want to keep you too long,
but I do want you to know that I want
(38:17):
both of you guys to know that. Based on our
earlier conversation last week about the nature of a euro
and what constitutes a sandwich. We received some tweets, so
I'm gonna just I'm just gonna give you a few
of these here. Get your responses, alright. So uh, Janelle
writes in to say I'm glad conspiracy stuff covers important topics.
(38:39):
A ero is so not a sandwich? Hashtag two slices
or bust um. Larry k writes in, so we did
a good job on the podcast on the Deep Web
where we interviewed Alex Winter said privacy is something that
needs to make a comeback. Also as Eiro is not
a sandwich. People are opinionated about this stuff and this
(39:02):
is this is the last one. Three um uh Kelsey
Edo says my vote is that it's a wrap. But
Wikipedia says it's a sandwich, and then tweets us again
and says here's where it's Here's where it gets crazy.
Did someone change the Wikipedia entrigue in order to get
people to say that it's a sandwich? Well, you guys,
(39:24):
I think I might be able to shed at least
a little bit of light on this. So I was
at lunch last week to a little Greek joint near
the office, and sure enough, on the menu it says
hero sandwich. WHOA right there? Well, you know what, you
guys are my friends, and I trust you, and I'm
(39:47):
It's more important to me to know the truth than
to feel like I'm right. So if a ro qualifies
as a sandwich in a Greek restaurant, I don't really
I don't really have the authority to contradict. I mean,
I see you're coming from. I do feel like it
exists in sort of a weird gray area between rap
and sandwich. I sort of think it's neither a rap
nor a sandwich. For the sake of the discussion, I'm
(40:10):
gonna call it a sandwich. And why do we need
labels anyways? Right, that's that's the best point so far,
I agreed. So I guess that's that's it for today.
Until next time, ladies and gentlemen, I have been met.
I'm still there, and we are changing our identities after this. Yeah,
(40:30):
I wasn't gonna say anything. We gonna wipe my brain.
I'm going to have a chat with you in a
darkened room with a projector Well before kit to that point,
let's assume that we will still be here next week.
Long listening videos coming out in the meantime, you can
see every podcast we've ever done at our website Stuff
they don't want you to note dot com. As we said,
(40:52):
you can tweak to us or send us a message
on Facebook, or check out some of the stories that
don't make it on the air. And if you would
like to take a page from Arvin and send us
an email directly, we'd love to hear from you. Our
addresses conspiracy at how stuff works dot com. From one
(41:14):
on this topic another unexplained phenomenon, visit YouTube dot com
slash conspiracy stuff. You can also get in touch on
Twitter at the handle at conspiracy stuff.
From UFOs two, ghosts and government cover ups. History is
widdled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or
learn the stuff they don't want you to now. I
have a short announcement which I will read at this time.
Senator Robert Francis Kennedy died at one am today June six.
(00:24):
With Senator Kennedy at the time of his death was
his wife Ethel, his sisters Mrs Patricia Lawford and Mrs
Stephen Smith, his brother in law Stephen Smith, and his
sister in law Mrs John F. Kenning. He was forty
two years old. Frank make A was kennedy Press secretary,
as reported by The New York Times June six, Thank
(00:49):
you for that reading, Noel. Yeah, that was fantastic. Absolutely,
Welcome back to the show everyone. My name is matt
On Ben And that dramatic reading you heard at the
top of a podcast comes from, of course, our super
producer Null, the second Gunman Brown. Most importantly, however, you're here.
Welcome to stuff they don't want you to know. Yes,
(01:11):
welcome to you now. Forty seven years ago today, on
June five, Robert F. Kennedy was assassinated. And what what
you heard was Noel reading that announcement. Um, it was
a very somber day. And today we're gonna talk about
the this assassination. We're gonna look at the official stories.
(01:32):
We're gonna look at the alternative theories and also the
current theories about what really happened. Yes, some more recent stuff.
But as somebody said to Alice at the tea party,
let's start at the beginning. We'll go through the middle,
we'll stop at the end. That sounds great if this
story hasn't end. Did that also Wonderland reference work? You think?
(01:55):
I think so. I just I don't remember who said it,
the mad Hatter or the dormouse. That mormouse didn't do
that much. I know that because I played the dormouse
one time in a in a high school thing. Oh really,
yeah it was. It was a shining moment. Do you
have a video of that? Uh? No, absolutely not. Okay,
so no, Um, but we can always just stage our
(02:17):
own right. Absolutely, we're an Alice short I think. So. Uh,
let's go ahead and get some background here, just a
very high level thing. Now, this is an issue we
should disclaim first. This is an issue that you and
I have talked about uh. For for a while, we
had an earlier video that came out on this we did.
(02:38):
We had an earlier video specifically on Robert Kennedy's assassination
focused It focused on sire and sirehand and the idea
of a Enturian candidate, which we will get too later,
But we really want to start at the beginning here
and talk about who RFK was, why why it was
an extremely important and sad day when he was shocked,
(03:00):
And of course yes, it is an important and tragic
time every in every instance where someone dies by gunfire
or by violence. Absolutely, I guess I should say, um,
I don't know it. He had the possibility to make
large changes and and he even made in several of
(03:21):
his speeches. He spoke about this idea that a lot
of people can make a difference in their local area
and in small events, but very few people will have
the ability to make changes on a wide, almost worldwide basis. Right,
And this is such a this is such an involved
and examined topic, this assassination, that we want everybody to
(03:43):
know from the top that we're not going to be
able to get to everything. So instead of asking at
the end, we would like to ask here at the beginning,
and probably a little bit later for you guys to
reach out to us at our email address, our Facebook
and our Twitter conspiracy stuff at the Facebook and Twitter
conspiracy how stuff works for the email and let us
know if there's some other theories you think we should
(04:05):
bring up, let us know if there are some corrections,
and uh, let us let us know. You know what
you think personally, even if you don't have any proof,
that's okay. We just want to hear other opinions, all right.
So here with that long preamble, And I learned a
fancy word for that, by the way. It's such a
useless word, are you ready? Pro lagominon pro logominon like
(04:29):
pro lego manonic. It means brief introductory remarks, so almost prologue, huh,
like the phenomenon of a prologue. Very nice, and I
may be mispronouncing it, sorry everybody. So here we are.
Robert Francis Kennedy, whom we will refer to as RFK
(04:49):
for most of this podcast, was born in November of
nineteen Now, he was the son of privilege. There's no
way around that. He was born into the Kennedy dynasty,
which had risen from you know, bootlegging. Uh, that's that's
one of the big allegations and stories. But at the
(05:10):
time he was born, the Kennedy family was already pretty
well established, and he took one of them. He took
a fairly standard but uh, spotless well done trajectory that
you see a lot of young people born into political
dynasties or families with political aims taking right, Yeah, that's right.
(05:30):
He served in the U. S. Naval Reserve from nineteen
forty four to nineteen forty six. He went to Harvard
and the University of Virginia School of Law. He also
worked at the Boston Post and as an attorney in Washington,
d c. Right, And in nineteen fifty one he began
working for the Internal Security section of the U. S.
(05:52):
Department of Justice is Criminal Division, and by June of
the next year he resigned to manage his brother Jack
his payn for the Massachusetts Senate. Now, this was his
first and official launch into his political career, right, and
that campaign for the Senate seat in Massachusetts was successful.
(06:13):
There are there are a lot of Kennedy brothers here,
So we're going to refer to some of them as
first names. But there's one that you knew, of course
we had mentioned ladies and gentlemen, and that is John F. Kennedy.
When Robert's brother, John F. Kennedy won the nineteen sixty
presidential election, he John I mean appointed his brother Robert
to the position of attorney general, despite the fact that
(06:36):
Robert didn't have experience in state or federal court. Yeah,
that's right. Kind of a little strange, but I guess
expected when you have those kind of ties at that level. Yeah.
But then also, regardless of where you like to place
yourself in political ideology, it's I personally don't think it's
(06:59):
the best this for something purporting to be a republic
or meritocracy to uh, to to rely on nepotism, but
to be able to even do that, right, But this
is again, this is a story where we know very
little of the behind the scenes stuff. Sure, I just
wanted to make that absolutely and RFK didn't do a
bad job. That's what I wanted to get to. So,
(07:22):
even though there was some nepotism going on in his
appointment to this to this level, he made a name
for himself. He he went in there, he started fighting
organized crime, corruption, even institutionalized racism. Yeah, like prosecuting corrupt teamsters,
working with civil rights movements. You can find pictures of
him with Martin Luther King Jr. Yeah, he was basically
(07:44):
making a lot of enemies on all sorts of different fronts, right. Yes,
Also he was often seen in many social circles as
a hero of people who are typically marginal. Wise, there's
a twist here, of course, which you all see see coming.
(08:05):
In nineteen three, on November two, the standing President John F.
Kennedy was assassinated, and Robert Kennedy, like many other people
at the time, was certain that multiple folks were involved
in this murder, not just Lee Harvey Oswald. Oh. Yeah,
he was suspicious of the MOB, of the CIA, even
(08:29):
of LBJ, at least there that he was. He was
rumored to be suspicious of LBJ. Right, And there was
suspicion of possible Soviet involvement, uh anti Castro Cuban factions,
any of the groups you and I just named working together.
And you know, of course, we know that kind of
(08:49):
speculation thrives after an important death. There are people who
will tell you that Elvis was still alive until quite recently,
and I know that's not a great compare Sin, but
but I'm saying these opinions that he had, or these
beliefs were not by any means unreasonable at the time. No,
And and there are a lot of people who are
(09:10):
close to him at the time that have said that
he was he felt personally responsible for the death of
his brother because of the enemies he was making as
the Attorney general. It's fascinating stuff and for me, it's
it's kind of sad to think about that mind state
of where he must have been when you find out
found out about his brother. Yeah. So in nineteen sixty five,
(09:32):
Robert Kennedy became a senator, New York Senator, and in
nineteen sixty eight he launched the presidential campaign and it
seemed to be going pretty well. Um yeah, that's March sixteenth,
nineteen sixty eight, and it was going very well. He
looked like he had a serious shot. You know. I
I talked to my parents about Robert Kennedy when we
(09:53):
first made our our video about him. And I think
I've mentioned this before or maybe in the Mentoring in
Canada pot podcast, but how enamored they were with him
at the time because of he was, like you said,
giving the voice to people that hadn't really had one
in politics for a good long time, at least at
that level. And Uh, Man, I don't know. I'm I'm
(10:16):
not getting choked up. I was getting choked up earlier.
And I hate to admit that, but I was getting
choked up watching these videos of him online giving speeches
and it makes me wish. It kind of reminds me
of um the president President Obama's campaign when he was
running where I was just the ideas that were coming
out of that man's mouth made me want to believe
(10:37):
in something better and I think that's what RFK was
doing for that generation at the time. Well. And also
given the death of his brother as a president, Uh,
there's a great sense of purpose or righteousness that I
think transmits very well. So he he had UM he
(10:59):
had a decent shot at the presidency and we'll see
how close he came. But that stopped in June five,
and it stopped abruptly because Robert Kennedy was also assassinated.
He was shot by a young man at the time
named sir Han. Sir Han. So our question here and
a question that people asked in the wake of the tragedy,
(11:20):
and almost fifty years later, are still asking is this
what happened? Well, here's the official story. Like we said,
things were looking pretty good for our f k's presidential campaign.
The Democratic primary elections in California were on June four.
The results were in rfk's favor, that's fort to his
opponent McCarthy's. And this was this was the running for
(11:47):
the Democratic candidate spot. Yes, yes, uh and and just
so we just I hate to throw some cold water
on there, but also let's keep in mind that uh
Kennedy was facing what was considered an unrealistic race against
President Lyndon Johnson. Yes, because Lyndon Johnson was popular as
(12:10):
being seemed like carrying the torch and absolutely a wake
of the JFK assassination. But still he in terms of
the democratic stuff, he was he was cooking with gas.
So about four hours after the polls closed, UM Robert
went and spoke to his reporters at the Embassy Room
ballroom at the Ambassador Hotel in Los Angeles. And the
(12:33):
government provides this is this is really important. The government
provides secret Service protection for incumbents, right, but not for candidates. Right.
So if Lyndon B. Johnson is campaigning, then he has
Secret Service protection. But if his opponent Robert Kennedy or
Eugene mccarthyer campaigning, then they don't get that automatic protection. Instead,
(12:57):
RFK had three security people and FBI agent William Barry
and two former pro athletes who were sort of unofficial bodyguards. Now,
RFK was planning to mingle with some of his supporters
in the ballroom before going to this other gathering in
the same hotel. But journalists wanted this press conference. They
got deadlines. Well yeah, I mean, well, you want to
(13:18):
get a piece of just a little something, maybe one
or two lines from the guy who might win in
this election, and you know that's that's a big deal
for a journalist. Well, shure, it's a big deal, but
it's also expected. You don't get bonus credit for it.
You get fired if you don't do your job. That's
exactly right now. Our rfk's campaign Stafford Fred Dutton, asked
(13:42):
RFK to skip the second meeting, take a shortcut through
the hotel kitchen. But this basically behind the ballroom where
the employees travel, and he was gonna get there go
basically take a shortcut to meet the press. Okay, to
get to the press area. Now that's a great question
if you're asking it. Why didn't they just go the
right regular way? Why take the shortcut? Here's the thing.
(14:02):
RFK popular guy, always a people person, and apparently he
was always pausing to press the flesh, shake the hands,
kiss the babies as so it could be tough to
get him in and out places. You really had to
had to guide him as a handler. Yeah, you really
got to be hands on with him, right, And so
he was pausing to meet people as they were walking
(14:24):
through the kitchen, which you know, I think is cool,
is the idea of meeting somebody who might one day
be president. As he was shaking hands with an employee
named Juan Romero, a bus boy, uh, a guy rushed
from beside the ice machine, a young man named Sir
Hans sura Han firing a twenty two caliber Ivor Johnson
(14:45):
Cadet revolver. Now RFK got shot three times. One bullet
entered his head behind his right ear, the other two
at the rear of his right armpit, and the second
bullet exited his chest, but the third one stuck in
his neck, so he is conscious. He is lucid. The
first one of the first things he's asking when people
(15:05):
are talking to him, sir Han. Sirhan, by the way,
is instantly like tackled to the ground. Uh. They're asking
the first thing he asks everything is everyone safe? Are
they okay? Uh? He's rushed off to try to sit
in an attempt to save his life. Uh. They do
about four almost four hours of surgery on him. I
want to say, like three hours forty minutes. But despite
(15:26):
their efforts, he died on one am June six, about
twenty six hours later at two am. Uh. Frank Mankowitz,
the spokesperson for the campaign, made the official statement that
Noel interpreted for us at the top of the show. Searhan.
Searhan is as of this recording, currently sentenced to life
(15:48):
in prison the Richard J. Donovan Correctional Facility. So let's
get into this. What what's the motivation? Why would seer
Han Saran do this? What we know is that Sian
sire And was a Palestinian Christian with Georganian citizenship, and
investigators at the time believed that he murdered RFK or
at least shot RFK for because of the candidates support
(16:11):
of Israel, which he saw is endangering the population of Palestine.
He was very young at the time, he was only
twenty four. One of the chief pieces of evidence for
this that you can read is that his diary contained
evidence of pre meditation, including written phrases like RFK must
(16:32):
die over and over, Robert F. Kennedy must be assassinated
over and over uh, and sometimes citing specifically that this
murder must occur before the fifth of June ninety eight.
And here's the thing, guys, Assassinations can happen for all
sorts of reasons, and this is a perfectly believable one.
(16:53):
People have been shot historically for less, so why people
even today believe that this is the whole story. We'll
get to that in just a moment, but first we're
going to take a quick break for a word from
our sponsor. Here's where it gets crazy. Now, we can't
(17:15):
do all of these We talked about that earlier, so
we're gonna take a high level approach um, and like
Ben said, please write in for any more details or
any other conspiracies you think we missed here or you
would like to see us cover in the future. I'm
sure there are quite a few. Oh yeah, we could
probably make an entire separate podcast, not like an episode,
but a whole podcast. Yes stuff, RFK and JFKs killers
(17:38):
don't want you to know. Yeah, we could have a
new episode every week. But until that happens, if it does.
Here are a few of the most common, let's call them,
alternative theories to the story behind rfk's assassination, if not
both assassinations. So the first one is that the CIA,
(18:01):
the Central Intelligence Agency in the United States, is somehow involved.
There's a filmmaker named Shane O'Sullivan. He's made several pieces,
I believe on this on these subjects, and in one
of them he believes that or he he um, he
states with some evidence when he actually spoke with several
people who believe that CIA officers were present on the
(18:23):
night of rfk's assassination. Yeah right, I mean, I don't
mean like, yeah right sarcastically, but that's correct that O'Sullivan
says this. So these three guys, again allegedly were identified
as c i A officers, senior officers who had worked
at the main ant castro station out there in Miami.
(18:44):
The three men listed were the chief Officer of Operations,
a fellow named David Morales, the chief of Maritime Operations,
a guy named Gordon Campbell, and the chief of psychological
Warfare a guy named George Johannades. Also, we should point
out that it would seem that several of these claims
were incorrect, specifically the one about Gordon Campbell, because it
(19:09):
would seem that he Campbell died of a heart attack
six years prior to this assassination. At least there are
records stating that he did, yeah, and not reck not
records as in people's letters to each other, records as
in death so old. Sullivan's film also features an interview
with an attorney named Robert Walton, who apparently worked with
(19:31):
or for David Morales. At some point. Walton says in
the film, I quote, I was in Dallas when we
got The Son of A and I was in Los
Angeles when we got The Little Bastard. Oh sorry, no,
I I thought we could say bastard. Can we say bastard? Noel?
Of course you could say bastard come on and yeah,
(19:53):
that's yeah, Well we do. Our beefs live here. Interesting
thing about this film is the ci A to klimbed
to comment, There's an interesting note here too that I'd
like to make. It is true, ladies and gentlemen, that
one of the reasons the term conspiracy theory is so
popular in the mainstream is that shortly after the assassination
(20:14):
of JFK, the CIA propagated some memos, distributed some memos
advising people on how to handle folks who said the
official story wasn't true. And one of the big things
they said is call it a conspiracy theory, call them
conspiracy theorists. That's a fact, and you can check. I
think you can find that actual document or a copy
(20:35):
of it online, right yeah. And since then, if you
hear in the news someone using the phrase conspiracy theory
or theorist, it just equates with sure, right yeah, because
HSBC laundering money for drug cartels is the exact same
thing as a secret race of half reptile aliens. Yeah,
(20:58):
it's completely equivalent. Pretty much apples apples there. But O'Sullivan
didn't stop at that one film. He produced another film
or created another film in two thousand seven. Yes, that
one was called RFK Must Die, and that updated some
of those earlier erroneous claims, including most particularly the one
(21:18):
about Gordon Campbell. So that's the that's part of the
CIA involvement. You'll also hear stuff about a woman in
a polka dot dress, which which I think will be
familiar to a lot of people have looked at this. Uh,
there's the theory of a second gunman next, which is
not mutually exclusive. Right, No, no, not at all. Several
(21:39):
of these could be working together. Who knows, um. But
in this one, authorities say that eight bullets were fired,
three hitting Robert Kennedy and the rest striking five other victims,
all of whom survived. Lawyers William F. Pepper and Laurie
Dussick claim analysis of audio recordings actually show that there
(21:59):
are thirteen shots that were fired from multiple guns, and
that's five more shots than sir Han could fire from
the twenty two that he had in his possession. Yeah,
because of the clip side, So that all of that
makes me go, hume, Yeah, but it's it's an audio recording,
so it's not It is completely true that sir Han
(22:20):
Surhan was in there with a gun, fired it and
this politician died. That is inarguable. Sirhan and the defense
team have continuously or consistently appealed this stuff. Uh, the
Attorney General, Kamala Harris, was not persuaded by some of
these appeals, saying that the allegations fell short of dismantling
(22:42):
the prosecution's overwhelming case against him. And so, while we're
on the subject of sir Han Surhan, which could deserve
its own podcast alone, we want to just talk a
little bit briefly about this Manchurian candidate thing that you've
heard us throw around a long time, was yours? Well,
the show hasn't been on that long in the audio,
(23:03):
but well, I guess people have watched the videos for
a while too, are already familiar with this concept that
we did an audio show about the possibility of a
Manchurian candidate. What, Matt, what is that? What? What do
we mean when we say that? Well, the term itself
was popularized or even coined by Richard Condon in his
book from nineteen fifty nine, called maturing candidate or the
(23:25):
Maturian candidate. And we've again, we've talked about this a lot.
The definition really is an assassin who is kind of
an unwitting assassin who is unaware that they are an assassin.
Either with through brainwashing or some other technique, this person
is convinced by a third party to murder someone else,
(23:48):
and they're usually activated somehow, like with a woman with
a polka dot address. When you see this woman, you
will need you will go and kill your target. Right,
that's the idea that there's some sort of trigger word,
phrase or image. So do be cautious if a stranger
approaches you and whispers something very specific in your head.
(24:08):
But that's the thing. If you are a man Turing candidate,
you aren't aware that you are, and you will have
no idea when someone whispers the trigger words to you.
Write and for the vast majority of people, this is
filed under interesting yet complete bs because the thing here
is that it has not been proven in a scientific way.
(24:31):
There there's no solid, peer reviewed evidence that shows people
can be programmed to that level of sophistication. There is
evidence that shows you can easily influence people in ways
that don't understand. Like right now, I have a hot
cup of coffee in my hand, and there are a
(24:51):
couple of studies that show that if a stranger comes
in here right now and starts talking to Matt and
I and let's say Matt had a cold drink. What's
a kind of cold drink you would have? So okay,
So Matt has Matt has a soby ice cold delicious,
soby I've got a I've got a steaming cup of coffee.
Then this study showed that the temperature of the drink
(25:14):
we are holding has a measurable influence on our perception
of this stranger. Matt will be likely too. I know
it sounds so dumb. It does sound, but Matt will be,
according to this research, more likely to be objective, maybe
less likely to be to empathize with them, whereas I
(25:38):
will be much warmer, I'd be cold, you'd be There's
also okay, just while we're on it. This total tangent.
But if you are working at a job and you
don't know a lot of people and you want them
to think you're a team player, get a picture of
a dog, frame it and put it on your desk.
It won't work if it's a cat and it doesn't matter,
(26:00):
or if you're in the picture. I mean, if you
really want to be a moral and unethical about it,
it doesn't have to be your dog. Although I think
lying that way will come back to bite you, and
it's not a good practice. And apparently that picture of
a dog will prime people to think of you as
a trustworthy, loyal team player. Wait, Ben, what I was
(26:22):
thinking of some pictures on your desk? Yeah, yeah, that's no,
that's a real dog. It's a real dog. Is it
your dog? Moving on, So sir Han has actually gone
into this manchurion candidate territory. I guess you would call it, because,
as we said, he was sentenced to life in prison.
(26:43):
He did not receive the death penalty. Uh. And he
has continued his uh, the appeals process. He claims he
has no recollection of the murder whatsoever. In an appeal
in two thousand eleven, his lawyers repeated this previous assertion
and they had reports from people they said were experts
(27:05):
who said that sir Han Sarhan was programmed through hypnosis
to fire shots as a diversion for the real killer.
And that was in the latest appeal uh two thousand eleven,
I believe denied officially in two thousand twelve. That's that
is movie stuff right there. It sounds it sounds like
(27:25):
the plot of film. To write of a thriller of
political intrigue, film, the idea that someone could be programmed
to do that sort of stuff and then in the aftermath,
which sir Han Sarhan argued, Uh, in the aftermath have
their memory wiped so that they don't remember who told
them to do it or how. It just seems complicated.
(27:50):
It seems pretty convenient way, um for as a story. Yeah,
so that's a great that's a great point. Is this
a legitimate events? Is this evidence of mental instability? And
as as as other studies show, uh, spending your life
in prison is not conducive to one's mental health? Or
(28:12):
is this just a desperate, dishonest attempt to gain freedom? Right?
I mean maybe. Man, It's it's tough. It's so tough
to view from this angle, right, I want to believe
in some as it sounds horrible, but I want to
believe that something that fantastical could be real, right, that
(28:35):
there would be that sort of level of Um, I guess,
I guess science or technology to to be able to
do something like that. Don't get me wrong. He's terrifying. Yeah,
it's terrifying, and it's horrible the way if it's true,
the way it was used. But I wish I want
to live in a world where things like that are possible,
like things that are otherworldly. Almost uh. Some people would
(28:59):
say that you do. Unfortunately again at this point, or
maybe fortunately there's a better way to put it there,
there isn't any evidence that that level of influencing a
person can happen. Now. There's there is evidence, of course
of brainwashing, right, stuff like Stockholm syndrome, right, and Patty
(29:22):
Hurst joining the people who kidnapped her, right, or people
being members of cults or other organizations that are similar
to cults. And Darren Brown did well supposedly demonstrate that
he could create a Mansurian candidate. Yes, yes, he did, yeah,
and that is for television, for television, of course, and
(29:42):
that was a carefully controlled thing, so it's not like
he was setting this person out to be triggered and
assault people. However, what the big difference here in this
idea of a Manchurian candidate would be that the Manurion
candidate exists as a separate ums like a soft wear program,
like a hidden software program or protocol inside a larger
(30:05):
operating system of a human personality, whereas brainwashing usually the
when people are brainwashed, they still understand like they remember
what they're doing. They still understand the concept of the past,
the concept of the future. Right. Uh, They're not some
(30:26):
sort of automaton arguably, and we should. I would love
to talk to Occult the programmer or something like that.
What do you think so we've got well tell us
if you have any access to cult the programmers that
you think are legitimate, because we would like to get
their story out there. We have one last one here,
(30:50):
which is not not really fair, but it was all
a coincidence. Uh. When JFK was shot in sixty three
and when RFK was shot in sixty eight, these were
entirely unrelated incidents. Lone Madman, Lee Harvey Oswald, Sirhan Sirhan
assassinated these politicians and brothers for entirely separate reasons, and
(31:16):
they just happened to both be from the same political
dynasty very high in the ranks of US politics. For me,
one of the strangest things here is that we didn't
have presidential assassinations during the Great Wars in World War
One and World War Two in the US. But then
(31:39):
they there too. And Okay, RFK was not a president,
but he was a presidential candidate and having two of
them happen in just back to back and being brothers,
I don't know, right, And I think that's an interesting
point to make because we know that while there have
been numerous attempts to assassin senate presidents um more than
(32:03):
twenty if we count former presidents, uh, that that we
know of, at least, uh, there have been only four
presidents that were successfully assassinated. That's Lincoln, Garfield, McKinley, and Kennedy. Now,
other presidents were injured in attempted assassinations, the most recent
(32:24):
being Ronald Reagan, but the every single president has been
at least since John F. Kennedy has been threatened by
someone with an assassination. I think that just goes with
the job, honestly, in the way communication is changing. Right.
That's a really good point too, so is it? Is
(32:47):
it an entirely unrelated thing for some people? The those
different commonalities just are circumstantial but too strong to ignore.
But of course, you know, the truth is, regardless of
what happened, that both of these people were killed, and
it could have been a coincidence, at least according to
(33:09):
the official stories, which find no connection between the murders,
which comes back to um leads us to rather one
of my favorite parts of this show. Matt, I'm gonna
put you on the spot here. Okay, what do you think?
What do you think about this thing? Coincidence related motivations,
(33:30):
possible players. Well, I I find myself being swayed a
little too easily when I watched documentaries. But there is
a lot of information that I've been finding, both in
JFK's situation and rfk's situation that makes me suspicious of
(33:53):
Lyndon Johnson's administration. I'm not saying that he did it.
I am interested in connections between l vj's administration and
perhaps some of the people that RFK made enemies of
when he was Attorney General. And I don't know enough
about that right now, but I am That's where I'm
(34:13):
interested in looking. Yeah, he was anti War two, if
he ran on anti war platform, if I recall correctly. Yeah,
for me, it's it's difficult because I want to you know,
I want all of the information right, and it's still there.
There are still things that people don't agree on. But
(34:37):
in both cases, in both JFK's case and rf case case,
the official investigation is more or less close you know,
the Warren Commission did their bit. Um. There were investigations
into rfk's death, and they plan it squarely on Sir Hans.
Sir han Um. I'm just um, I'm perplexed. I think
(34:58):
most by h the fact that Sara and Saran is
still alive and imprisoned and filing appeals using the appeal process,
uh continually or when whenever the opportunity presents, and saying
that he was saying that he was brainwashed and then
(35:18):
brain white. You know that's spooky stuff. Yeah, but he's
just a conspiracy theorist. Ben He's well, people would say,
he's just a convicted murderer trying to trying to get out. Right.
So now we're going to pass the question to you,
ladies and gentlemen. What do you think about all this?
Do you have? Are there any people that we didn't
talk about in this episode? Oh there are a lot actually,
(35:40):
well yeah that you really think could be I don't know,
a suspect right to us, Please find us on Facebook,
find us on Twitter. Were conspiracy stuff at both of
those also, I mean, if you really want to, you
could send us an email. Ah. Yes, And while we're
on that subject, Matt, No, what do you guys think.
Let's do a little listener mail. Here's a message we
(36:06):
got from Kelly. Hey, guys, you should do a podcast
on the Avro Aero CF one oh five. This super
jet was amazing until the Canadian government canceled it in
nineteen fifty nine. The cancelation day is known as Black
Friday in Canadian aviation history. All planes, components, production, tooling, equipment,
and technical data was scrapped. The story is filled with
(36:28):
conspiracies regarding why the program was canceled. The story involves
Russian spies and the fallout leading leading to scientists involved
in NASA and the Concord Jet. Cheers and keep up
the great work, Kelly. So this is interesting, the super
jet Avro Aero CF one oh five. Do you know
anything about this? You know, it's funny. It's funny that
(36:50):
you say this, or that we're reading this letter because Kelly,
I believe that you also rode into car stuff to
ask us if we wanted to over this UM. I
have looked into it a little bit, but it is
definitely a pretty good suggestion. I you know, it kind
of spans both car stuff and stuff they don't want
(37:12):
you to know. Right, well, you know what that means.
We're gonna do a joint episode. Yeah, why not? We
maybe we can have Scott over on that on this show,
or maybe we can do a video about it. We'll
see what goes up with. There's one other thing, ladies
and gentlemen, you know what that sound means. It's time
(37:32):
for a moment with our super producer, No, the second
gun man Brown. Hey, no, pretty well, we just wanted
to check in with you. We uh, just got done
with the episode. So what's going on? No, nothing much,
you know, just the usual, just listening to you guys
editing on episode on mass extinction from a different show. What, yeah,
(37:56):
which one is it? Is it? Oh? Yeah? Yeah, yeah,
I'm looking forwards to that. It's a massive station because
we're in we're in the anthropos scene, right, the age
of man or something right for a little while longer,
for a little while longer. Well, I'm Noel, I'm glad
you could check in and want to keep you too long,
but I do want you to know that I want
(38:17):
both of you guys to know that. Based on our
earlier conversation last week about the nature of a euro
and what constitutes a sandwich. We received some tweets, so
I'm gonna just I'm just gonna give you a few
of these here. Get your responses, alright. So uh, Janelle
writes in to say I'm glad conspiracy stuff covers important topics.
(38:39):
A ero is so not a sandwich? Hashtag two slices
or bust um. Larry k writes in, so we did
a good job on the podcast on the Deep Web
where we interviewed Alex Winter said privacy is something that
needs to make a comeback. Also as Eiro is not
a sandwich. People are opinionated about this stuff and this
(39:02):
is this is the last one. Three um uh Kelsey
Edo says my vote is that it's a wrap. But
Wikipedia says it's a sandwich, and then tweets us again
and says here's where it's Here's where it gets crazy.
Did someone change the Wikipedia entrigue in order to get
people to say that it's a sandwich? Well, you guys,
(39:24):
I think I might be able to shed at least
a little bit of light on this. So I was
at lunch last week to a little Greek joint near
the office, and sure enough, on the menu it says
hero sandwich. WHOA right there? Well, you know what, you
guys are my friends, and I trust you, and I'm
(39:47):
It's more important to me to know the truth than
to feel like I'm right. So if a ro qualifies
as a sandwich in a Greek restaurant, I don't really
I don't really have the authority to contradict. I mean,
I see you're coming from. I do feel like it
exists in sort of a weird gray area between rap
and sandwich. I sort of think it's neither a rap
nor a sandwich. For the sake of the discussion, I'm
(40:10):
gonna call it a sandwich. And why do we need
labels anyways? Right, that's that's the best point so far,
I agreed. So I guess that's that's it for today.
Until next time, ladies and gentlemen, I have been met.
I'm still there, and we are changing our identities after this. Yeah,
(40:30):
I wasn't gonna say anything. We gonna wipe my brain.
I'm going to have a chat with you in a
darkened room with a projector Well before kit to that point,
let's assume that we will still be here next week.
Long listening videos coming out in the meantime, you can
see every podcast we've ever done at our website Stuff
they don't want you to note dot com. As we said,
(40:52):
you can tweak to us or send us a message
on Facebook, or check out some of the stories that
don't make it on the air. And if you would
like to take a page from Arvin and send us
an email directly, we'd love to hear from you. Our
addresses conspiracy at how stuff works dot com. From one
(41:14):
on this topic another unexplained phenomenon, visit YouTube dot com
slash conspiracy stuff. You can also get in touch on
Twitter at the handle at conspiracy stuff.
Stuff They Don't Want You To Know News
Hosts And Creators
Matt Frederick
Ben Bowlin
Noel Brown
Show Links
RSSStoreAboutLive ShowsPopular Podcasts
United States of Kennedy
United States of Kennedy is a podcast about our cultural fascination with the Kennedy dynasty. Every week, hosts Lyra Smith and George Civeris go into one aspect of the Kennedy story.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.