Who was the Original Night Stalker?

From 1979 to 1986, an unknown serial killer assaulted and murdered at least 10 people. He remains uncaught to this day. So who was he? Is it possible to find the Original Night Stalker?

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is
riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or
learn the stuff they don't want you to know. Hello,

(00:21):
welcome back to the show. My name is Matt, my
name is Noel, and my name is Ben. You are you,
regardless of which name you happen to be wearing today,
and that makes this stuff they don't want you to know.
This week, we're looking into some more true crime ladies
and gentlemen across the US, across the globe. You had

(00:42):
asked us to cover some more true crime stuff, and
for our long time listeners, you're familiar with the earlier
episodes we've done on serial killers. Yeah, we've done some
on serial killers who have never been caught on things
kind of specific ranges of things like the Highway of
Tears or the Hand of Death, serial killer cults. We've

(01:06):
also looked at possibilities of serial murders associated with cults.
But this will be our first episode about a specific
serial killer. If you would like to hear the early
episodes we did, check them out on our website. Uh,
stuff they don't want you to know dot com. But
remember you don't have to listen to those before you

(01:27):
check out this one. So you may have heard of
a man named Richard Ramirez. He was known as the
night Stalker, and over the course of the eighties he
essentially reigned terror upon Los Angeles and San Francisco. There
was a series of break ins that he that he perpetrated.
He raped people, he murdered people, and thankfully he was

(01:51):
apprehended in August of nineteen five and ended up dying
on death row in two thousand thirteen due to be
cell lymphoma. But decade before that, there was another killer
in California, a serial rapist and killer known as the
East Area Rapist or also known as the Original night
Stalker or because I'm the Golden State Killer, A man

(02:14):
of many titles um. This killer was suspected and at
least fifty different rapes homicides from nineteen seventy six to six.
His methods that were professional, very very calculated, methodical killer,
and in the beginning, investigators believed that either these rapes
were unrelated or that there were two different killers operating. However,

(02:39):
DNA evidence later used proves that the East Aea Rapist
and the Original nights Stalker were not two different people,
they were the same individual in an increasingly escalating, uh,
increasingly escalating pattern of violence while likely accompanied by an
increasing increasingly dysfunctional cognitive state. Yeah. There, there's even a

(03:05):
period that occurred that that existed before the East Area
rapist was found that well we'll get to in the future.
That may have been the same person where they were
just burglarizing houses, right, the Vicelia ransacker. So yeah, what
what we're looking at here is a an escalating series

(03:26):
of events, like like you said, Ben, and let's look
at the timeline here. So a lot of the resources
were pulling from from a website called e A R
dash O n s dot com, which is set up
to which is set up to comb history and public
records for any clues or leads to this killer. We

(03:48):
know that on Junique teenth, nineteen seventies six, at four
am UH, an assailant attacked and sexually assaulted a woman
in Rancho, Cordova, California. This was the first recorded instance
of what we're originally known as the East Area rapist crimes,
but emphasis are recorded. Uh, there are earlier possible burglaries

(04:10):
attributed to this same character, as you had mentioned, matt
since the guy is believed to have started out as
a burglar graduating to rape or uh to if we
want to follow the rabbit hole a little bit further
than and may have started as a peeping tom thing
too exactly now. The first attempted murder that has attributed

(04:31):
to the original night stalker occurred on October one, nineteen
seventy nine, in Galita, California. The assailant breaks in ties
up a couple. He's walking around the house chanting, I'm
gonna kill him, I'm gonna kill him. However, momentarily when
he was I guess distracted or away from them, uh,
the couple was able to escape. The man went I

(04:52):
think and was able to escape and hid hide in
the backyard. The woman screamed her neighbors were alerted. UM
thankfully her name. He was an FBI agent that always
helps uh. The intruder then fled, and a neighbor pursued
on a bike. He ended up ditching the bike and
a knife, and he went through backyards to to just

(05:12):
get away from the situation and he wasn't apprehended. So
the first confirmed murder occurred on December of the same
exactly are also in Galena, and then May fourth, nineteen
eighty six was the last known murder, almost thirty years
ago to the day that we are recording this. Right,
we're recording this on May third, twenty sixteen, so in

(05:33):
just a few hours it will have been three decades.
So in nineteen six DNA testing confirmed that the Eastereo
rapist in the original night Stalker were the same individual.
But at this point, numerous other incidents are suspected to
be the work of this uh, this individual, but there

(05:53):
haven't been any real leads for a long time. Despite that,
there has been a recent resurgence event just in the case,
both professional investigators and internet sloops or combing through the
available information looking for any lead that could become a
breakthrough and possibly get some answers for the public and

(06:14):
some closure for the survivors. And it, like you said,
it arranges widely. The people who are getting back into
this case. A retired cold case investigator, Gary Kitzman, he
went back to work in two thousand ten after retiring
the previous year because he just wanted to focus on
this case and this case alone. He's been going over
all of the collected evidence from the seventies and eighties,

(06:36):
the times that we're talking about here, and he's trying
to close this thing. Then on the other end, you've
got the subreddit Unresolved Mysteries, which is keeping this case
alive as well. You if you searched through that subreddit,
you can find endless threads of people asking questions and
posting links and and trying to make connections between both

(06:57):
the East Area rapist and I mean, I guess it's
the same guy, but trying to to make connections between
who this possibly could be right and connecting other isolated
incidents or seemingly unrelated incidents like the Vicelia ransacker. Another
huge contributor to the story of the original night Stalker

(07:19):
was Michelle McNamara. Uh. She's the creator of the True
Crime Diary, which was a blog she made. She's also
a contributor to The l A magazine. Unfortunately, she died
last month. She's also the wife of Patton Oswalt, the
comedian um Her article in the Footsteps of a Killer
from is a must read for anybody who's kind of

(07:42):
gotten lost down in internet rabbit hole looking into this
kind of stuff, especially if you're interested in this case
in particular, and the list of victims, just the proven
confirmed victims that we know of is too long to
run through. Here we're talking about UH fifty plus rape
victim ten plus homicides minimum. UH. You can see, however,

(08:04):
full list of both suspected and confirmed victim names along
with details of each crime at the website that we
mentioned earlier. And what you'll notice if you sort through
this the way many people have is that there are
some commonalities in the UH in the demographics of the victims. UH.
This individual's primary targets were middle class and upper class neighborhoods,

(08:27):
usually homes that were in some sort of public area,
near schools, parks, creeks, you know, open areas were very prime.
The suspect sometimes impersonated a realtor, a building inspector, or
some other professional, maybe even a prospective home buyer. Right.
And we know some of this not just because of
discoveries of the victims in their location or the evidence

(08:50):
at the house or seen of the crime. We know
this because of the people who survived and described some
of these traits. That's how we also know a profile
of this or which we'll get into later, but first
before we continue tracing the history of this lesser known murderer.

(09:10):
Will pause for a word from our sponsors. Here's where
it gets crazy. This person, the East Area rapist, the

(09:31):
original night stalker, the Golden State killer. This guy is
still out there somewhere. Maybe at least he's never been caught.
He's certainly not been caught for these crimes. He's you know,
he's been linked to these other serial burglaries. Yet I'm proven.
We have difficulty knowing what what other uh sexual assaults

(09:57):
or murders he may have been involved in, but there
is no shortage of clues and speculation. So one of
the first ideas is the idea of this single suspect. Yeah,
and then and this just states that, you know, all
of the rapes, all the attacks and murders can be
attributed to a single human being, and that person is
the original night stalker. Uh. This one, this one seems

(10:20):
to be backed up by the DNA evidence that linked
the two the two together linked it to one person. Um,
you know, who's to say about some of the other
things that happened prior to the East Harry rapists attacks,
But this one seems to have the most evidence behind it.
We should probably add that a lot of cold cases
like this remain cold because of the fact that DNA

(10:43):
evidence was not a thing, right, that's absolutely true. In
this case, however, DNA evidence is somewhat of a thing,
and it still existed. I think, uh, in some of
the latest stuff, they're going back and and looking at
some of the evidence that they've got. The d N
evidence in this case may be relevant because they do
have a full profile. Oh, I guess what I mean

(11:05):
is the technology has just gotten so much better, so
it's easier to go back and look at things they
may have collected in these cases that at the time
they didn't know what the hell to do with exactly. Yeah.
And then also just collection methods and methodology have vastly improved.
So this there's there's another theory here to the idea
that there are multiple East Area rapists, that there were

(11:28):
two individuals committing these crimes, two men working together competing
in some sort of twisted way. What what's strange about
that is if there were a competition, if there are
multiple killers, they would almost certainly never meet because generally
these folks, unless there is an ideological thing, yeah, and

(11:51):
unless there's an ideological thing. They're gonna be working on
their own. Not only that, you'd think they would one
up each other and there wouldn't necessarily be as much
of a of a continuous pattern. There would be one
person trying to outdo the other if it was some
sort of competition, right, right, It's important to stay hear
this is specifically about the East Area rapist attacks and

(12:12):
not not the original night stalkers. Yeah, good point. And
the thing about that is that if there are multiple
similar murders results or robberies, and there's evidence that they
couldn't have all been committed by one person, historically, it's
much more likely that there's a copycat criminal who's taken

(12:34):
advantage of the current focus on this one person or
in some cases idolizes them. You know. Yeah, we're just, yeah,
like you said, using the opportunity to do something that
they usually wouldn't because they'll they'll be thrown off, the
investigators will be thrown off the trail. And so let's

(12:55):
let's look at the escalation. It's fairly certain that this
was a single individual, but let's look at the escalation
evolution of this person from I guess, uh, just a crappy,
disturbed schmuck to a violent and deranged killer. And I

(13:17):
know it might sound you know, it might sound rude
to just like say, this is a pathetic person. But
if they're alive and they're listening, I want them to
hear me say that. So how did this escalate? That's cold.
Let's talk a little bit about the Vizalea ransacker um
and the escalation that took place there. I was a
little confused by this myself. This in theory is the

(13:40):
idea that, um, this was this killer sort of learning
and starting to move towards more of a violent um trajectory. So,
an unidentified serial burglar broke into numerous houses in the Visalia,
California area, from April of set any four to December seventy. UM.

(14:02):
This person would destroy the interior of the home and
just you know, steal little knickknacks here and there with
the objects of sentimental value exactly exactly, um. But it
didn't really feel like it was about getting big ticket
items that might be resold. It was much more of
an impulsive kind of act. Yeah, So it's postulated that

(14:23):
this ransacker, who was never officially caught, became the East
Area rapist after the attempted kidnapping of a young lady
named Beth Snelling on September eleven. Yeah, that was the
the final escalation at least that's reported from this ransacker
when he tried to he tried to abduct a woman

(14:44):
whose father was also in the house. And then about
let's see, that's about a year later then that the
first uh East Area rapist recorded attempt at rape or
recorded rape excuse it occurs, that's assault occurs. So it
really is staggering to look at the list of victims
on the website that we referenced, the D A. R.

(15:07):
Dash Ons dot com. I mean, it's very very detailed,
and it you you can see the escalation just by
going down the spreadsheet. It's pretty Yeah, I know, it's
it's very disturbing, and if you think about it's also
so much more disturbing if you are a victim of
a home invasion to find that, you know, the TV

(15:29):
wasn't taken, or the VCR wasn't taken, or the PlayStation
wasn't taken, but what was taken was like a picture
of your grandmother, Yeah, your great grandmother's like humble dolls
or something like that that we're on the mantel and
so maybe some things were smashed, you know, like I said,
a very impulsive kind of one case, it was the
father's cuff links, right, and we have, um, we we

(15:51):
have some information about the m O because one thing
the killer did to prevent it from being a I
guess a fair fight and we'll talk about the profile
there later was to sneaking houses beforehand. And one of
the things he would do when he was stalking UH
these people is that he would try to locate any

(16:13):
weapons and disarmed them, like take the bullets out of
the gun, right all that hide knives where he could
know where they are in case because you know, obviously
this guy UH was not a good fighter and had
to plan. And he would even stash ropes and stuff
underneath cushions on sofas so we would have easy access

(16:34):
and know where they are. So what does what what
does our profile of this uh? What does our profile
this night stalker sound like? What comprises it? We know
that there was some work done by psychological profiling team
led by uh Leslie Dembrogia, and we also know that

(16:58):
there were extensive notes taken via survivors of these incidences.
And from there we've learned a couple of key points.
We are certain that it's a white male. And back
in nineteen seventy six, in the seventies when he was
being seen by people, he was twenty to thirty years old,
somewhere in that range. Pretty young. Right now, he would

(17:20):
be in his fifties or sixties. There are a couple
outlier descriptions that put him a little bit older in
his seventies now, but I think the average is going
to put him closer to his mid fifties. Currently. He
was about five eight to five eleven. He was definitely
physically fit, had broad shoulders. Yeah, he was able to
do all kinds of athletic things when evading police, MP

(17:42):
defences and stuff. Uh. He frequently wore ski mask or
something else to include his face. He either had blue
or hazel eyes according to witnesses, shoe size nine. And
here's an interesting thing. He had Type A blood. How
do we know this? Because he had non secrete your
bodily fluids, It means they didn't contain enough protein to

(18:04):
test for a blood match. Yeah, So that means when
Semen was found at a scene, you couldn't link it
up if you had um, let's say, a DNA sample
from someone from the sky's blood or someone else's blood.
There are several recordings, or at least alleged recordings, of
his voice that the authorities have, and on them he
has a what's described as a higher than average vocal

(18:26):
pitch and uh he speaking of averages. He was report
as this is a crass thing to say, but as
reported by the survivors, he was below average in terms
of his genitalious size, noticeably below this h and also

(18:46):
unable to achieve orgasm at certain parts. And I know,
ladies and gentlemen, that we're talking very frankly about some
disturbing things, but this is also this is a surprisingly
common trend in uh, in serial killers or in these
sexually motivated criminals. It is probably a better way to
say it. And so when he took and then you know,

(19:09):
of course on his profile, he would take small items
with personal value to the victims. He also knew a
lot about knots. Yeah, there's this one complicated knot called
the diamond knot. There are a couple other words for it.
It's it's crazy complicated. I watched a couple of videos
trying to show you how to make it, and I
don't think I could do it, even after being instructed

(19:31):
how to do it much less on the fly. Oh yeah, dude,
under dress like that. Um. This may point to some
kind of background in the military, perhaps scouting maritime like manching. Yeah,
anywhere where you're constantly tying knots um. It also may
hint at an interest in bondage in his personal sexual life. Right,

(19:55):
so he made changes to his procedures. Law enforcement began
noticing common parts of his commonalities in his m O,
like is not usage uh, And he began removing the
ligatures or the materials used to tie up his victims,
like sometimes it would be their shoelaces, sometimes he'd bring
his own stuff, uh, sometimes just from their bodies to
the floor nearby, and sometimes removing them from the crime

(20:16):
scene altogether. This shows us that this killer was watching
and attempting to switch things up. The investigators use this
to say this man is not um insane. I guess
he's very calculated in these things. He's learning each time
he commits one of these crimes, which is terrifying on

(20:37):
one hand, but it would be good for let's say
a prosecutor who could say this person is of their
own mind. There you know he wouldn't go to a
mental institution. Let's say he this person would end up
in prison. I see what you're saying. And then we
know about the background they thought possible law enforcement and
military training, maybe working struction or as a contract painter

(21:01):
or a handyman. Or you might also hear that you
worked in a scrap yard, which would give him access
to vehicles. Because of this character used different vehicles at times.
We know probably lived in Sacramento, Galita, or Irvine, California,
at least for a time. And we have a quotation
from the article that Matt mentioned earlier by Michelle McNamara

(21:24):
in the Footsteps of a Killer that describes the m
O and a little bit more detail. Quote to zero
in on a victim, he often entered into the home beforehand,
when no one was there, learning the layout, studying family pictures,
and memorizing names. Victims received hang up or disturbing phone
calls before and after they were attacked. He disabled porch

(21:45):
lights and unlocked windows. He emptied bullets from guns. He
hit shoelaces or rope under cushions to use his ligatures.
These maneuvers gave him a crucial advantage because when you
woke from a deep sleep to the blinding flashlight and
ski masked presence, he was always a stranger to you,
but you were not to him. Uh. That paints a

(22:05):
creepy picture of this man. And of course, along the
way law enforcement investigators professional and amateur like have been
attempting to find specific suspects in these crimes, you will
find mentions of people who have already been largely disproven
as possible suspects. Joe al sit Brett class by Paul

(22:29):
cornfed Schneider, which is an interesting middle name, at the
very least an interesting nickname. A lot of these guys
ended up having an alibi or something that basically discounted
them from being the person right. And then there's some
other suspects like you'll here mention them for hims sometimes
John Familaro, the cold storage killer. He's currently on California's

(22:52):
death row for the murder of Denise Huber. He would
have been twenty five or twenty six at the time
of these crimes. During the mid seventies, he worked as
contractor and a house painter. Yeah, this guy is a
little disturbing. He kept the body in a freezer on
his property, like a standalone freezer, just kept the body
there for I think three years before it was discovered.

(23:15):
And I don't know that that kind of thing. Almost
keeping a trophy on your property of a person that
you murdered. That's another potential suspect was a gentleman by
the name of Kevin Lee Gardner. According to an l
A Times article, Gardner um was arrested for the rape
of a woman with multiple sclerosis who employed his girlfriend

(23:36):
as a nurse, and this took place in Gardner was
thirty five at the time, which meant that he would
have been in his mid to late twenties around the
time of the East Area rapist original Knightstocker crimes. Another
gentleman brought up frequently in these forums is Glenn Edward Rogers.
He's known as the Cross County killer. Uh he was.

(23:57):
I think he's currently on death row in California. He
murdered Tina Marie Cribs. Like reports of the original Nights Soccer,
this man was blonde. He was reported to live in
the Southern California area at the time of the attacks
of the original night Stalker. Um. This guy he was
he was known as like I forget the actual name,
but he was like the good looking killer or whatever.

(24:19):
He would go to bars and just pick up women
and take them back to a hotel or something, and
then you'd find a dead woman in a bathtub. Right,
So this leads us to our conclusions. We should say
at this point the Vicelia Ransacker has in no way
been have concretely connected to the night Stalker Easteria rapist,

(24:41):
and none of the specific suspects we meet or we've
met in the course of the show have been again
concretely connected. This guy got really lucky. And also did
you read the poetry that he sent in to the
Sacramento b It already downloaded it for the video. I'm

(25:01):
going through. Its garbage is so terrible. It's like not
it's it's not well written, not even Charlie Manson's song. Right, yeah, no,
like it. We could take someone who didn't speak English,
hand them a picture with the letters of the alphabet
on it. You're really laying into this guy, and then
give him a give that person a pen and whatever

(25:23):
letters they randomly drew would still be just far superior aesthetically.
You're talking about the excitements cave. Yeah, you can look
it up if you wish, ladies and gentlemen, I mean,
if you want to waste your time. So this leads
the start of thing. What happened to this killer? Guys?
It's a ghost. Yeah, he's a ghost. We we don't

(25:45):
know where he is, if he's alive. We don't know
any of these things. So let's walk through what could
have happened. Well, it could have been caught, Okay, it
could have been arrested for something unrelated. I mean, this
is clearly an individual that I had no qualms about
break law. So there are numerous ways. Um, although you know,
did seem cautious relatively speaking to have gone away with

(26:07):
it for that long, so I'm maybe not leaning towards
this one. Could have been sitting in a jail cell
somewhere California, this is true, might not have had a
sample of his DNA taken upon being incarcerated to the
dj in California. UM have different rules about DNA sample collection. Yeah,
all of this. There are rules revolving around the year

(26:28):
that the felony was booked. You know, when the crime
was actually committed. Oh yeah, yeah, so okay, So in
the state of California, these these rules have changed over
the years. So depending on when, if he was arrested
and is in the correction system in California, he may
not have had a you know, a sample of his
DNA taken. So if he's in there for a long time,

(26:50):
he's got a life sentence for something else that's unrelated,
then maybe he's just sitting there. It's it's a possibility,
it's quite possible. Then there's uh, the idea that he
could have been murdered during an attempted crime. Right. The
profiling team that was working with Uncle Sam said that
recommendation to check out any prowling cases that are you know,

(27:13):
attempted Pete and Tom breaking stuff that resulted in the
death of a lone male prowler, especially around that at
that time, we should say the last, the last contact
that the original night stalker has provably had with the
member the public was a phone call to a phone

(27:35):
call to a victim, so also could have died of
an unrelated condition. I mean, despite the horrific things Richard
Ramirez did when he was caught, which is a hell
of a story in itself and put on death row
um the limphoma got to her before justice did. So
you know, we live in a world full of accident

(27:57):
and danger around every corner. Don't be frightened. But if
you're driving right now, just remember the only thing protecting
you from those cars hurtling toward you are some lines
painted on the road that we all pretend are real,
and your prowess and to not get in a crash.
Right So, even to the most stable, most capable people,

(28:19):
car accidents can happen, heart attacks could happen, people are
struck by lightning. A meteorite might hit you. I mean,
you're more likely to win the lottery, but a meteorite
might hit you. And just and here is the most terrifying.
He could be free. He could be living with a
family somewhere, just as a dad, as a husband to somebody,

(28:43):
maybe alone. Maybe he frequents a bookstore nearby somewhere. Maybe
he likes podcasts. In that case, we should note that
the investigation continues. In November, the FBI noted that there
are still on it, and that means that, as we said,
the killer, if alive, could be listening now to this show. Well,

(29:06):
one thing a lot of serial killers have in common
is that they're crazy narcissists. They make the mistake that
a lot of um relatively unintelligent people make, which is
where they assume that they're interesting and this like, if
I know that, I know that this individual is probably

(29:27):
not listening to our show. Now. However, given the rampant
narcissism that a lot of serial killers have, I'm sure
that many go back, especially if they feel like they've
gotten away, to listen to this kind of stuff and
and listen to people trying to figure out who they are.
Like b t K did that the buying torture kill

(29:50):
killer Dennis Radar. I'm sure he read everything written about himself.
I'm pretty sure Ted Caruse listens to stuff about the
Zodiott Killer all the time. Did you get yeah, wait,
what is okay? Can you explain that one time? I'm
completely kidding, Ted Cruiz is not the Zodiac Killer, but
it's a it's an entertaining meme that has gone around

(30:12):
that is pretty awful if you think about it. Um
to accuse someone of that. Uh. Larry Wilmore did a
great bit when he did the opening for the White
House Correspondence Enter where heat the whole thing where it's like,
who would do a thing like that except the Zodiac Killer? Wow?
Oh wow. And so with that we will end our

(30:34):
story for now on the original night Stalker met Uh
what should people do if they want to learn more?
If you want to continue down this rabbit hole, there
are a ton of places you can go. One of
them is the l A magazine. There are a ton
of articles there to uh gosh to the subredits that
we talked about unresolved mysteries. If you want to pick

(30:56):
up a physical book and read it, which I would recommend,
check out Sudden Terror by Larry Crompton, someone who actually
had some skin in the game in investigating this person.
You can also check out Hunting a Psychopath by Richard Shelby,
again to great sources of just more information than you
might actually want. And if you have more information you'd

(31:18):
like to share with your fellow listeners, uh, drop a
line with any recommended reading that comes up. It's the
end of the show, guys, and that means we have
time for just one more things. Shout out Corners. For
our first shout out today, we would like to shout
out Sergeant Blue, which is an assumed name when says

(31:41):
you who listens to the show before going to work
at a state Department of Children and Families, He suggest
that we look into the Toynbee tiles as well as
the pervasive belief in an old conspiracy that child protective
services sometimes removes children from homes for profit rather than
the safety of the child. Yeah, that's a dark one. Uh.

(32:02):
In the email that the sergeant sent, he was saying
that he's never seen any evidence of it in his workings,
but he said, like he said, pervasive, people just believe it.
And maybe it's just because of people who have to
deal with child protective services. Sometimes they're in a situation
that maybe leads them to see authorities in a bad light. Perhaps.

(32:27):
Our next shout out goes out to Claire from Calgary, Canada.
She said some really encouraging words, so thank you so
much for that. I'm gonna read this quote you guys
because I think it's worth it. She said, I never
want to stop hearing three cool dudes having a discussion
about witchcraft, ghosts or demonic possession. That's really nice. Who
are these guys she's talking? I have no idea who

(32:50):
they are, like a couple of stooges. She also suggested
that we make a show focused on the Builderberg group,
which we've we've done some shows around them and we
mentioned him a lot. Have we done an audio episode.
Maybe we should do that. That's a great idea. Thank
you for the suggestion, Claire from Calgary. Our third shout

(33:10):
out today goes to Alan at Bad Motor Finger, Uh
and the ohs and motor are zeros. If you're looking
him up on Twitter, uh and uh give us a
random shout out so we you know, we're thinking, like,
what's just something equally unpredictable and random that we could say?

(33:32):
So we'll take a different shot. We can each go
around the room. I guess I would point out that
doctor Awkward is a palindrome. That's really great. Doctor Octopus
is my favorite Spider Man villain. Dr Octopus is a
great villain. Dr Browner's Magic Soap is my favorite of
the peppermint scented soaps. It's a good one. How do

(33:53):
you pronounced it? Cast cast style soap. There's a it's
a wind with a name, the Fremantle Doctor, which I
think is such a cool name for a wind. You know, yeah,
I didn't know you could do that. How does that
wind have a cooler name than us? That knowles pretty good?
I agreed. Did you see we got a listener mail.
I think it's on Facebook though, so they mentioned you

(34:14):
as k N O L L. Yeah, I get that
sometimes the grassy the grassy one. Well that's a that's
a random enough response, I think, too bad, motor Finger.
We have one last thing that we want to tell
people about, and we want you to check this out
on our social media on Twitter and Facebook where we're
conspiracy stuff. We got a fascinating package last week earlier. Yeah,

(34:39):
we did so. Do you guys remember that conversation where
we were talking about I'm speaking to you, by the way,
not you know, not you've been, but to you, Uh,
the conversation we had about ben bucks and we're going
to start our own currency. We we talked about it.
We've been floating this idea for a minute, floating our currency.
I've it's been a personal dream of my for for

(35:00):
a while. Although it was slow and upkeep and uh
the you know when we when I first proposed the idea,
I thought you guys were gonna just tell me to
shut up. But you got behind it and someone else
did too, so Leanne took it upon herself to like
design and print out and send us via actual male

(35:21):
some bend bucks in different denominations. Right, yeah, we got
a one of five seven point seven point five aten
and violence and uh also the plates to make more
of these. Uh. Noel and Matt got promoted to uh
various high government governmental positions. Uh finally, finally, right. I

(35:44):
I don't think I actually have a have a position there,
but you know what, I'll take it. And in all seriousness,
this was this was such a cool thing to send,
So we'll put we'll post some pictures if you want
to check it out, and if you have an idea
for starting your own currency, we'd also like to hear it. Uh.
I I spent some time, like, uh like thinking of uh,

(36:06):
Matt and Noel money too, I mean Matt money obviously
obviously obviously writes itself. Noel Nichols, Noel Nichols, just Nichols.
That's all I mean. I pay for everything in Nichols.
It's true. I've seen it. It's weird. That's what's in
the backpack. Just Nichols. I bet you thought it was
a laptop. No, Nichols always wondered why it was so loud. Uh,

(36:28):
So we are we are going to head out. We
hope that I don't know if enjoy is the right
word for this kind of episode, but we hope that
you found it worth your time and we would love
to hear what you think about it. So, if you'd
like to check out our other episodes on earlier serial
killer topics, visit us at stuff they Want You to
Know dot com. As you said, find us on Facebook
and Twitter with input for us with some addendums to

(36:52):
the case that you think your photo listeners should know.
And of course, if you have an idea for an
upcoming topic, or you don't want to mess around with
social media, you can email us directly. Heck, you can
even send mail to us if you want. That's right.
But if you'd like to email us directly, we are
conspiracy at how Stuff Works dot com.