May 13, 2025 • 16 mins
George Noory and psychologist Caroline Fleck explore her research into validation and influence in relationships, the struggles in feeling truly understood by others, and the importance of parents validating and celebrating their children to ensure future success.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Now here's a highlight from Coast to Coast AM on iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
And welcome back George and Oria along with Caroline Fleck
as we talk about her work validation. Caroline, how important
would you say validation is compared to something like persuasion
or influencing?
Speaker 3 (00:19):
I mean it is a means of persuasion.
Speaker 4 (00:22):
I think this is going to sound controversial, but when
I think about other essential qualities of a relationship, like
trust or even love, I think validation is as if
not more important than some of those qualities that we
that we know are important, that we make. We make
(00:44):
We're mindful and intentional about attending to in our relationships.
And here's why, Like, what does it actually mean to
be loved if you're not accepted for who you are?
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Right?
Speaker 3 (00:58):
I think a lot of times we end up.
Speaker 4 (01:00):
Distorting ourselves and filtering and facades in an attempt to
get praise, and praise is often confused with validation.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
I think. I think that's typically what folks.
Speaker 4 (01:12):
When folks talk about external validation, what they really mean
is praise. Praise is a judgment. It says I like
the way you look, or I like how you perform.
Validation says, I accept you independent of how you look
or perform. And so again, if we're not showing up
authentically and being accepted on those terms, then I don't
(01:36):
know what it actually means to say that we love
another person that we don't really know or accept or Yeah,
that makes sense.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
Do we validate our friends?
Speaker 4 (01:49):
Yeah, I think it's I think it's important too, right,
I think sure, the more somebody feels accepted in their
relationship with you, the more they will gravitate to you.
And that's not just me saying that, I mean that
is the science of it.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
Right.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
What about parents and their kids? How does a parent
validate their child and what does it do for the kid?
Speaker 3 (02:13):
Well, one way to answer to that question is to
look at what invalidation does to our children. And we
know that emotional invalidation is one.
Speaker 4 (02:24):
Of the causes of severe psychopathology, so invalidating environments.
Speaker 3 (02:31):
Children raised in invalidating environments.
Speaker 4 (02:34):
Are significantly more likely to develop everything from narcissism to
borderline personality disorder to major depression. These are serious associations,
serious connections, and so I mean, if we think about
what happens there, right, when you invalidate a child's emotions.
(02:56):
You're basically saying, you're basically dismissing that case experience. You're saying,
this doesn't matter. I'll give you something to cry about.
That would be an example of an invalidating response, right,
Or boys don't cry.
Speaker 3 (03:10):
That's an invalidating response. Now, a one off.
Speaker 4 (03:14):
Reaction like that isn't going to maybe scar a child
for life, although some would argue it could. But if
every emotion a child expresses is responded to by being
either dismissed or minimized, that child does not learn to
trust their own emotions.
Speaker 3 (03:34):
Right.
Speaker 4 (03:34):
They've been taught that their emotions are wrong and that
they should defer to others to tell them how they
should feel or think. And that is that is what
is at the core of a lot of the dysfunction
that I see in my practice.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
Would that be the case, Caroline, if a kid came
home with an ace on his science paper and the
parents kind of pooted it away.
Speaker 3 (04:01):
Hooted away as if like it was like a good
job or a bad.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
Job, Like no big deal.
Speaker 4 (04:06):
Oh yeah, absolutely right, I think I mean invalidation is
the language of perfectionism. Perfectionism says this is so easy, Like,
what's the big deal right when the reality is that
obviously perfection is impossible and even trying to fake perfection,
even just creating facades is exhausting to keep up with.
(04:29):
And so you see a lot of perfectionistic standards in
kids with parents who are either very invalidating or have
very perfectionistic standards.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
How can we validate ourselves? Can we?
Speaker 3 (04:43):
Yeah? Yes we can.
Speaker 4 (04:46):
It is a skill just like the you know, the
same way that we need to work at it in
communicating validation to others. We need to be able to
look at ourselves and see what we call the kernel
of truth in the experience, Like there's a valid reason
that you are thinking or feeling something, Okay, The task
(05:09):
is just to find the validity in that. Where is
that coming from? What was the chain of cause and
effect that got you here. That doesn't mean that the
way you're handling it is necessarily valid or effective, but
some part of your experience is valid and you need
to be able to see that for yourself, especially if
(05:30):
you're in an environment where nobody else acknowledges.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
It is confidence the same as validation.
Speaker 4 (05:37):
Mmm, I think someone, In fact, I know someone who
is good at self validation will naturally have higher confidence,
right because they they're not as dependent on those external signals.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
Right.
Speaker 4 (05:52):
However, I don't think we can become completely divorced from it.
I think that's an illusion we have or something we
really aspire to. We want to just believe that we
can exist somehow independent of any concern for how other
people perceive us.
Speaker 3 (06:08):
And that's not how we're wired.
Speaker 4 (06:10):
We are joined to seek out acceptance into the tribe.
That is how we have survived, and so on a
very primal level, we desire that acceptance, and when we're
constantly getting signals from the environment that we're not accepted,
that does not sit well for us. We are in
those situations being deprived of what we need to survive
(06:34):
and what we have needed to survive evolutionarily.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
The person who does not validate a lot, what does
that tell you about them?
Speaker 3 (06:45):
Typically, it means that it was not modeled for them.
Speaker 4 (06:49):
It is not something that they have experienced, and it
is probably not how they talk to themselves. And so
in my work as a therapist, one of the reasons
I trained exhaustibly and how to communicate validation is because
I'm working with folks who are coming from highly invalidating environments.
(07:09):
They have no framework, no frame of reference for how
to do this for themselves, much less communicated to others,
and therefore, within that therapeutic relationship.
Speaker 3 (07:20):
I try and model that to some extent.
Speaker 2 (07:23):
The CEO who validates his employees often how is he
looked at.
Speaker 4 (07:30):
I think validation is one of the single greatest positive
reinforcements that's overlooked in the workplace.
Speaker 3 (07:37):
It just makes no sense.
Speaker 4 (07:41):
We've really approached our corporate settings in this very sterile way,
as if sterile and professional were one and the same.
We're comfortable praising the work, saying good job, nice presentation,
but we're not comfortable recognizing or acknowledging the person behind
(08:03):
the work.
Speaker 3 (08:04):
That's what validation does. Validation good, good.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
Job on the.
Speaker 4 (08:12):
You know the work you did over Christmas break you
you came in when everybody else was off and you
fixed it.
Speaker 3 (08:17):
It was great. Thank you so much for your hard work.
That's great.
Speaker 4 (08:22):
That's all praise and appreciation validation would say. And that
must have been so disappointing for you to have to
come in when everybody else was out. I imagine you're
feeling burnt out. Okay, that's that's validation, and you can
just feel there is something more there. There is a
(08:42):
sense of connection there that is incredibly valuable. It is
incredibly valuable. And so a lot of my corporate work
function focuses on helping, on helping executives and you know,
just everyday employees develop these skills so that they can
speak this language.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
How close does validation, Caroline echo compliments? It's they're close.
Speaker 4 (09:12):
Well, here's the difference. Compliments reflect a judgment, right, I
like the way you look, I like the way you perform.
By the way emojis I think also fall into this category.
So like the heart emoji, when someone pokes posts a
bikini pick or.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
Something, smile or a frown or something like that.
Speaker 3 (09:31):
Yeah, yeah, all of that is some form of praise.
Speaker 4 (09:35):
It's saying I like what I see right, I'm evaluating
this positively.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
Uh.
Speaker 4 (09:41):
Validation is really non judgmental. It just it just says,
I simply see right, I see what is I see
that you came in overbreak when everybody else didn't.
Speaker 3 (09:54):
I am mindful. And so the distinction is that.
Speaker 4 (09:59):
Praise and compliments, all of that is judgmental and at
its core validation is non judgmental.
Speaker 2 (10:08):
I'm going to give you an example and tell me
how you would validate this person. Employee comes into the
company and has just sold two million dollars worth of
something that the company performs and sells. Other people sold
fifty thousand dollars worth one hundred thousand dollars worth. This
(10:31):
individual sold two million dollars worth of material. How would
you validate that person?
Speaker 4 (10:39):
Well, it depends I would need perhaps a little bit
more information, so I've got When I look at validation,
there's three things I could validate in a person's response.
I could validate their behavior if their behavior makes sense
and is logical, their emotions or their thoughts. I don't
have to validate all of that, which is the the.
Speaker 3 (11:00):
Key here.
Speaker 4 (11:01):
But with this individual, based on what you're describing, the
only information I have is their behavior. They sold two million,
which should sounds like they did a great job. I
could infer from that that they must be excited, so
I could speak to that, you must be really excited.
Speaker 2 (11:17):
They could have been cutthroat to do it, could.
Speaker 4 (11:20):
Have been cut throughat right, so I might I could
take a stab there and see, wow, did you really
have to I wonder what you had to do to
get and make that happen. Right, I don't know if
that's going to land as validating, but if it's a
sideways not to what they.
Speaker 3 (11:38):
Did and they see that, then it could.
Speaker 4 (11:40):
But I'm trying to infer it would have to be
either thoughts or emotions, because I don't have that information.
Speaker 3 (11:46):
So thoughts could.
Speaker 4 (11:47):
Also be like, you must be really excited, you must
be thinking that things.
Speaker 3 (11:52):
Are going well like.
Speaker 4 (11:55):
Or I'm wondering if if you're worried that this is
now setting really high expectations for next time, that's great.
Speaker 2 (12:03):
Is validation easy or difficult.
Speaker 4 (12:07):
Depends on the circumstances. It can be as simple, like
I said, just very basic validation skills.
Speaker 3 (12:16):
If I can. If I don't.
Speaker 4 (12:18):
If I'm sitting across from like fierce, this political opponent
and I find what they say really offensive and threatening
to me, if I don't understand or empathize, then I
can just be mindful.
Speaker 3 (12:31):
And I have two validation skills.
Speaker 4 (12:32):
I use that copying one I talked about, and this
other one called attending. But to do those two skills,
I mean to copy, I just copy them.
Speaker 3 (12:40):
That's not very hard. The hard thing.
Speaker 4 (12:43):
The truly difficult thing is switching gears and the willingness
being willing to use those skills in situations where I
don't like.
Speaker 3 (12:54):
What the other person is saying or doing. That is hard.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
Right now, you went to the city of Michigan. I
went to the University of Detroit. Oh that I can
say that you went to a great school, and so
did I. Yeah, how do you How does one validate
something like that.
Speaker 4 (13:14):
That that that the school is quote unquote good. Yes, so
that would actually be praise.
Speaker 3 (13:19):
You went to a good.
Speaker 4 (13:20):
School, like I judge it. You judge it as a
good school. Okay, maybe that would be praise. To validate
my experience there, you could say something to the effect
of it must have been pretty challenging.
Speaker 3 (13:39):
It must have. You must have had a lot of
late nights at that school.
Speaker 4 (13:45):
Right. If that's true for me, then I feel seen like, oh, yeah,
you get it right. If it's not, then guess what.
You didn't validate me at all. You just struck out.
And that happens too no matter how hard you try.
Speaker 2 (13:55):
You had a great football team.
Speaker 3 (13:57):
Right, we praise? Yeah? Maybe you I.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
Don't want to. I don't want to aid you but
what year were you there? I didn't, oh for Oh yeah,
it was way after both Chambeckler the coach.
Speaker 3 (14:13):
You know what, though I never went to a football game.
Speaker 2 (14:16):
No, you were on the u of M campus and
never went to a football game.
Speaker 3 (14:22):
Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 4 (14:23):
It was the best time to study. There was no
one at the libraries.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
Well, I guess you validated yourself, didn't you.
Speaker 4 (14:31):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (14:32):
Well no, so actually that's really interesting.
Speaker 4 (14:34):
So when folks do bring up Michigan football to me, right, like,
that doesn't really map onto my experience in college very much.
And so the assumption that it would, with which folks
often make, I mean, if I for me, it doesn't
like I don't feel seen in that moment because that
that's not something that was specific to my experience.
Speaker 2 (14:55):
Should I be disappointed in you because you didn't go
to a U of M football game?
Speaker 3 (15:00):
I don't know, are you? I don't think you should be.
Speaker 2 (15:03):
I'm not not at all, But some people might be, Oh.
Speaker 3 (15:10):
Yeah, of course.
Speaker 4 (15:11):
I mean that's like a quintessential experience. For example, Yeah, yeah,
what can you do?
Speaker 2 (15:19):
How do you validate a relationship?
Speaker 4 (15:23):
Yeah, so again I think we need to incorporate validation
and think about it in the same way that we
think about trust, right Like, in the absence of trust,
it's you can't really have a solid relationship. Similarly, in
the absence of validation, you can't have trust, all right,
(15:45):
I don't trust somebody who doesn't know me like I.
I it's it's hard to feel trust in the absence
of feeling seen and accepted.
Speaker 1 (15:56):
Listen to more Coast to Coast am every weeknight at
one a m. Eastern and go to Coast to coastam
dot com for more
Now here's a highlight from Coast to Coast AM on iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
And welcome back George and Oria along with Caroline Fleck
as we talk about her work validation. Caroline, how important
would you say validation is compared to something like persuasion
or influencing?
Speaker 3 (00:19):
I mean it is a means of persuasion.
Speaker 4 (00:22):
I think this is going to sound controversial, but when
I think about other essential qualities of a relationship, like
trust or even love, I think validation is as if
not more important than some of those qualities that we
that we know are important, that we make. We make
(00:44):
We're mindful and intentional about attending to in our relationships.
And here's why, Like, what does it actually mean to
be loved if you're not accepted for who you are?
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Right?
Speaker 3 (00:58):
I think a lot of times we end up.
Speaker 4 (01:00):
Distorting ourselves and filtering and facades in an attempt to
get praise, and praise is often confused with validation.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
I think. I think that's typically what folks.
Speaker 4 (01:12):
When folks talk about external validation, what they really mean
is praise. Praise is a judgment. It says I like
the way you look, or I like how you perform.
Validation says, I accept you independent of how you look
or perform. And so again, if we're not showing up
authentically and being accepted on those terms, then I don't
(01:36):
know what it actually means to say that we love
another person that we don't really know or accept or Yeah,
that makes sense.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
Do we validate our friends?
Speaker 4 (01:49):
Yeah, I think it's I think it's important too, right,
I think sure, the more somebody feels accepted in their
relationship with you, the more they will gravitate to you.
And that's not just me saying that, I mean that
is the science of it.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
Right.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
What about parents and their kids? How does a parent
validate their child and what does it do for the kid?
Speaker 3 (02:13):
Well, one way to answer to that question is to
look at what invalidation does to our children. And we
know that emotional invalidation is one.
Speaker 4 (02:24):
Of the causes of severe psychopathology, so invalidating environments.
Speaker 3 (02:31):
Children raised in invalidating environments.
Speaker 4 (02:34):
Are significantly more likely to develop everything from narcissism to
borderline personality disorder to major depression. These are serious associations,
serious connections, and so I mean, if we think about
what happens there, right, when you invalidate a child's emotions.
(02:56):
You're basically saying, you're basically dismissing that case experience. You're saying,
this doesn't matter. I'll give you something to cry about.
That would be an example of an invalidating response, right,
Or boys don't cry.
Speaker 3 (03:10):
That's an invalidating response. Now, a one off.
Speaker 4 (03:14):
Reaction like that isn't going to maybe scar a child
for life, although some would argue it could. But if
every emotion a child expresses is responded to by being
either dismissed or minimized, that child does not learn to
trust their own emotions.
Speaker 3 (03:34):
Right.
Speaker 4 (03:34):
They've been taught that their emotions are wrong and that
they should defer to others to tell them how they
should feel or think. And that is that is what
is at the core of a lot of the dysfunction
that I see in my practice.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
Would that be the case, Caroline, if a kid came
home with an ace on his science paper and the
parents kind of pooted it away.
Speaker 3 (04:01):
Hooted away as if like it was like a good
job or a bad.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
Job, Like no big deal.
Speaker 4 (04:06):
Oh yeah, absolutely right, I think I mean invalidation is
the language of perfectionism. Perfectionism says this is so easy, Like,
what's the big deal right when the reality is that
obviously perfection is impossible and even trying to fake perfection,
even just creating facades is exhausting to keep up with.
(04:29):
And so you see a lot of perfectionistic standards in
kids with parents who are either very invalidating or have
very perfectionistic standards.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
How can we validate ourselves? Can we?
Speaker 3 (04:43):
Yeah? Yes we can.
Speaker 4 (04:46):
It is a skill just like the you know, the
same way that we need to work at it in
communicating validation to others. We need to be able to
look at ourselves and see what we call the kernel
of truth in the experience, Like there's a valid reason
that you are thinking or feeling something, Okay, The task
(05:09):
is just to find the validity in that. Where is
that coming from? What was the chain of cause and
effect that got you here. That doesn't mean that the
way you're handling it is necessarily valid or effective, but
some part of your experience is valid and you need
to be able to see that for yourself, especially if
(05:30):
you're in an environment where nobody else acknowledges.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
It is confidence the same as validation.
Speaker 4 (05:37):
Mmm, I think someone, In fact, I know someone who
is good at self validation will naturally have higher confidence,
right because they they're not as dependent on those external signals.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
Right.
Speaker 4 (05:52):
However, I don't think we can become completely divorced from it.
I think that's an illusion we have or something we
really aspire to. We want to just believe that we
can exist somehow independent of any concern for how other
people perceive us.
Speaker 3 (06:08):
And that's not how we're wired.
Speaker 4 (06:10):
We are joined to seek out acceptance into the tribe.
That is how we have survived, and so on a
very primal level, we desire that acceptance, and when we're
constantly getting signals from the environment that we're not accepted,
that does not sit well for us. We are in
those situations being deprived of what we need to survive
(06:34):
and what we have needed to survive evolutionarily.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
The person who does not validate a lot, what does
that tell you about them?
Speaker 3 (06:45):
Typically, it means that it was not modeled for them.
Speaker 4 (06:49):
It is not something that they have experienced, and it
is probably not how they talk to themselves. And so
in my work as a therapist, one of the reasons
I trained exhaustibly and how to communicate validation is because
I'm working with folks who are coming from highly invalidating environments.
(07:09):
They have no framework, no frame of reference for how
to do this for themselves, much less communicated to others,
and therefore, within that therapeutic relationship.
Speaker 3 (07:20):
I try and model that to some extent.
Speaker 2 (07:23):
The CEO who validates his employees often how is he
looked at.
Speaker 4 (07:30):
I think validation is one of the single greatest positive
reinforcements that's overlooked in the workplace.
Speaker 3 (07:37):
It just makes no sense.
Speaker 4 (07:41):
We've really approached our corporate settings in this very sterile way,
as if sterile and professional were one and the same.
We're comfortable praising the work, saying good job, nice presentation,
but we're not comfortable recognizing or acknowledging the person behind
(08:03):
the work.
Speaker 3 (08:04):
That's what validation does. Validation good, good.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
Job on the.
Speaker 4 (08:12):
You know the work you did over Christmas break you
you came in when everybody else was off and you
fixed it.
Speaker 3 (08:17):
It was great. Thank you so much for your hard work.
That's great.
Speaker 4 (08:22):
That's all praise and appreciation validation would say. And that
must have been so disappointing for you to have to
come in when everybody else was out. I imagine you're
feeling burnt out. Okay, that's that's validation, and you can
just feel there is something more there. There is a
(08:42):
sense of connection there that is incredibly valuable. It is
incredibly valuable. And so a lot of my corporate work
function focuses on helping, on helping executives and you know,
just everyday employees develop these skills so that they can
speak this language.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
How close does validation, Caroline echo compliments? It's they're close.
Speaker 4 (09:12):
Well, here's the difference. Compliments reflect a judgment, right, I
like the way you look, I like the way you perform.
By the way emojis I think also fall into this category.
So like the heart emoji, when someone pokes posts a
bikini pick or.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
Something, smile or a frown or something like that.
Speaker 3 (09:31):
Yeah, yeah, all of that is some form of praise.
Speaker 4 (09:35):
It's saying I like what I see right, I'm evaluating
this positively.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
Uh.
Speaker 4 (09:41):
Validation is really non judgmental. It just it just says,
I simply see right, I see what is I see
that you came in overbreak when everybody else didn't.
Speaker 3 (09:54):
I am mindful. And so the distinction is that.
Speaker 4 (09:59):
Praise and compliments, all of that is judgmental and at
its core validation is non judgmental.
Speaker 2 (10:08):
I'm going to give you an example and tell me
how you would validate this person. Employee comes into the
company and has just sold two million dollars worth of
something that the company performs and sells. Other people sold
fifty thousand dollars worth one hundred thousand dollars worth. This
(10:31):
individual sold two million dollars worth of material. How would
you validate that person?
Speaker 4 (10:39):
Well, it depends I would need perhaps a little bit
more information, so I've got When I look at validation,
there's three things I could validate in a person's response.
I could validate their behavior if their behavior makes sense
and is logical, their emotions or their thoughts. I don't
have to validate all of that, which is the the.
Speaker 3 (11:00):
Key here.
Speaker 4 (11:01):
But with this individual, based on what you're describing, the
only information I have is their behavior. They sold two million,
which should sounds like they did a great job. I
could infer from that that they must be excited, so
I could speak to that, you must be really excited.
Speaker 2 (11:17):
They could have been cutthroat to do it, could.
Speaker 4 (11:20):
Have been cut throughat right, so I might I could
take a stab there and see, wow, did you really
have to I wonder what you had to do to
get and make that happen. Right, I don't know if
that's going to land as validating, but if it's a
sideways not to what they.
Speaker 3 (11:38):
Did and they see that, then it could.
Speaker 4 (11:40):
But I'm trying to infer it would have to be
either thoughts or emotions, because I don't have that information.
Speaker 3 (11:46):
So thoughts could.
Speaker 4 (11:47):
Also be like, you must be really excited, you must
be thinking that things.
Speaker 3 (11:52):
Are going well like.
Speaker 4 (11:55):
Or I'm wondering if if you're worried that this is
now setting really high expectations for next time, that's great.
Speaker 2 (12:03):
Is validation easy or difficult.
Speaker 4 (12:07):
Depends on the circumstances. It can be as simple, like
I said, just very basic validation skills.
Speaker 3 (12:16):
If I can. If I don't.
Speaker 4 (12:18):
If I'm sitting across from like fierce, this political opponent
and I find what they say really offensive and threatening
to me, if I don't understand or empathize, then I
can just be mindful.
Speaker 3 (12:31):
And I have two validation skills.
Speaker 4 (12:32):
I use that copying one I talked about, and this
other one called attending. But to do those two skills,
I mean to copy, I just copy them.
Speaker 3 (12:40):
That's not very hard. The hard thing.
Speaker 4 (12:43):
The truly difficult thing is switching gears and the willingness
being willing to use those skills in situations where I
don't like.
Speaker 3 (12:54):
What the other person is saying or doing. That is hard.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
Right now, you went to the city of Michigan. I
went to the University of Detroit. Oh that I can
say that you went to a great school, and so
did I. Yeah, how do you How does one validate
something like that.
Speaker 4 (13:14):
That that that the school is quote unquote good. Yes, so
that would actually be praise.
Speaker 3 (13:19):
You went to a good.
Speaker 4 (13:20):
School, like I judge it. You judge it as a
good school. Okay, maybe that would be praise. To validate
my experience there, you could say something to the effect
of it must have been pretty challenging.
Speaker 3 (13:39):
It must have. You must have had a lot of
late nights at that school.
Speaker 4 (13:45):
Right. If that's true for me, then I feel seen like, oh, yeah,
you get it right. If it's not, then guess what.
You didn't validate me at all. You just struck out.
And that happens too no matter how hard you try.
Speaker 2 (13:55):
You had a great football team.
Speaker 3 (13:57):
Right, we praise? Yeah? Maybe you I.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
Don't want to. I don't want to aid you but
what year were you there? I didn't, oh for Oh yeah,
it was way after both Chambeckler the coach.
Speaker 3 (14:13):
You know what, though I never went to a football game.
Speaker 2 (14:16):
No, you were on the u of M campus and
never went to a football game.
Speaker 3 (14:22):
Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 4 (14:23):
It was the best time to study. There was no
one at the libraries.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
Well, I guess you validated yourself, didn't you.
Speaker 4 (14:31):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (14:32):
Well no, so actually that's really interesting.
Speaker 4 (14:34):
So when folks do bring up Michigan football to me, right, like,
that doesn't really map onto my experience in college very much.
And so the assumption that it would, with which folks
often make, I mean, if I for me, it doesn't
like I don't feel seen in that moment because that
that's not something that was specific to my experience.
Speaker 2 (14:55):
Should I be disappointed in you because you didn't go
to a U of M football game?
Speaker 3 (15:00):
I don't know, are you? I don't think you should be.
Speaker 2 (15:03):
I'm not not at all, But some people might be, Oh.
Speaker 3 (15:10):
Yeah, of course.
Speaker 4 (15:11):
I mean that's like a quintessential experience. For example, Yeah, yeah,
what can you do?
Speaker 2 (15:19):
How do you validate a relationship?
Speaker 4 (15:23):
Yeah, so again I think we need to incorporate validation
and think about it in the same way that we
think about trust, right Like, in the absence of trust,
it's you can't really have a solid relationship. Similarly, in
the absence of validation, you can't have trust, all right,
(15:45):
I don't trust somebody who doesn't know me like I.
I it's it's hard to feel trust in the absence
of feeling seen and accepted.
Speaker 1 (15:56):
Listen to more Coast to Coast am every weeknight at
one a m. Eastern and go to Coast to coastam
dot com for more
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