June 26, 2025 • 18 mins
George Noory and filmmaker L.A. Marzulli discuss the Shroud of Turin, the purported burial cloth of Jesus, how the realistic images of Jesus' wounds were transferred to the cloth, and the scientific tests to the shroud that he believes proves its authenticity.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Now here's a highlight from Coast to Coast AM on
iHeartRadio and.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Welcome back George Nori with you. You've got a great
couple hours coming up with you with La Marzuli, author
of a number of books, DVDs and films. He is
a supernaturalist and thinks humanity is headed for what he
has called to come, the coming Great Deception. La. Welcome back,
my friend.
Speaker 3 (00:21):
Have you been real good? George, thanks for having me on.
Good to hear your voice.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Looking forward to this and your trailer is fantastic. Holy
Thank you're out Holy Fire. We've got it linked up
at Coast tocoastam dot com.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
Thank you sir.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
When did you come out with this film?
Speaker 3 (00:36):
Well, it's only been released about a week at most.
It took us about a year. My business partner and I,
Gil Zimmerman, we sort of had to redirect and realized that, wow,
we need to hop on this when we started to
hear about this phenomenon that's been going on for seventeen
hundred years, i e. The Holy Fire, which has been
(00:57):
happening at the site in Jerusalem known as the Church
of the Holy Supulcher. So we kind of redirected our steps.
We were actually going to go across the pond, and
we had all these archaeologists and sites and museums and
storytellers and druids and everything else, and we pulled the
plug on it and focused on this film. And like
I said, it took us about a year from start
(01:19):
to finish to actually get it. But it's available Elimarzoli
dot com. You can stream it for under five bucks.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
You can't beat that. That's a great little weekend night. Huh.
There you go, the Shroud of Turan. Give me your
impression of what it is.
Speaker 3 (01:35):
Well, it's not a painting. It's not applied by the
hand of man. There's no die on it, there's no
paint on it. It's never been reproduced at all. I mean,
skeptics try to come up with something, but there doesn't
get anything like it. So we're looking. In my opinion,
and I've been on the show before talking about it
calling it God's calling card, because in my opinion, I
think that's what it is. I think it's forensic evidence
(01:58):
of the greatest event of history, the resurrection of the
fully god fully maned Jesus of Nazareth. And I mean
when scientists look at this thing. There's actually a there's
actually a clip in the film where Russ pray All,
who's a professional syndinologist, someone who studies the shroud. He's
written books on it. Joe Marino's same thing, written books
(02:20):
on it. These guys are a lot, way, way deeper
than I am. And I consider myself not in the
shallow end of the pool. But you know, Joe Marino's
written four hundred and five hundred pages on this thing,
so it's very very deep. And in the film, Russ
Praelle goes, it either is or it isn't, and if
it isn't, then what is it? And no one can
come up with it. There's actually right now a million
(02:42):
a million dollar reward for anyone who can show how
the show was made, and there are no takers because
something very enigmatic is on this cloth. And the cloth
is about three and a half feet by about fourteen feet.
It bears the image of a crucified man, but very
difficult to see, and in order to in order to
(03:02):
really see it, you got to step back about six
or seven feet. When you get up close to it,
it just it just fades away because it's on the
image is on the very very top most part of
the weave. It's a herringbone weave on a linen cloth,
very very top of the fibrils, and the image is
actually fading, which is kind of bizarre in itself, but
(03:23):
I mean it's it's the most studied artifact on the planet.
There's no doubt about that. And we can talk about
the carbon fourteen dating and how that was completely skewed
and and all the other things, but it's uh, I
call it God's calling card. And and the you know,
the deeper I go into it, the more I study it.
(03:44):
And let me just do a little sidebar here. When
I was in the edit booth working on the film,
and uh, you know, Gil and I are working on
this scene together and we got to the scourging and
that's where they spear. Right. Well, no, the scourging is different.
The scourging is when he's tied to a pillar and
(04:06):
the Romans are whipping him. Now, you know, I've been
a Christian for forty five years and I've read the Gospels,
but you know, okay, he scourge You think, well, maybe
it wasn't that bad. Then you look at the shroud
and it's like, oh, my gosh, he was beaten, with
him within an inch of his life. The scourging is very,
very brutal, extremely so there's not an inch on his
(04:27):
body that's not lacerated in some way. And the only
place that the Roman and these guys are professional tortures,
I mean, this is what they do. That The only
the only place that the whips didn't hit was right
where the heart is because if they hit him there
they could kill him. So he's he's basically scourged within
an inch of his life. I mean, it's brutal. The
(04:50):
scourging is really brutal, and all of that comes out
on the shroud. I mean people didn't realize it until
eighteen ninety eight. Was Sekundapia. We can talk about that,
but that's when that's when this whole thing opens up.
Eighteen ninety eight.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
Now the shroud was discovered when thirteen hundreds.
Speaker 3 (05:08):
Actually, no, it's been moved around. And remember you know
it has blood on it, number one, number two when
Jerusalem is sacked in a d seventy and this is
extra you know, apocryphal literature. But before the Romans came down,
many of the Christians left the city. They just went,
(05:30):
something's up and they left the city. So some of
its conjecture exactly you know where it went. But there's
pollen on it, and the pollen shows the trace of
the shroud from Jerusalem. Then it goes up up and
through the Middle East, winds up in Turkey for a while,
then it winds up in France then finally and touring Italy.
(05:51):
So you know, people make a big deal about well,
it's got to be a forgery, blah blah blah, but
this is this is what's so interesting about it. There's
never been a skeptic or a scientist that's been able
to reproduce the image at all on any level. And
there's actually and I remember watching this this is years
(06:12):
ago in the History channel, the shroud has three dimensional
information on it, So how is that done? I mean,
if it's a forgery, if it's from a thirteenth century,
then you know how how is that done? And then
the shroud is a negative image. And going back to
Secunda Pia eighteen ninety eight, you remember photography is sort
(06:34):
of in its infancy. You got these old box cameras.
It's not the iPhone where you go snap snapstap hey
look at this. It's not that these are wooden wooden
box cameras, you know, with a with a hood that
the guy gets under and focuses the lenses and puts
the glass plate in and it takes a while for
the image to come on the glass plate. Pulls that
glass plate out, puts it in the holder. Then he
(06:56):
goes into his dark room and he's mixing the chemicals
and and he's got he's looking at the headshop. That's
the first the first glass plate that he develops, and
he almost drops the plate. This is no, you know,
nothing apocryphal. This is s couldn't be his own words,
because what came up out of the negative, which should
(07:16):
have been a negative image, was actually a positive image.
So what's on the shroud is a negative image. And
when you when Sakunipia took that photograph, what he saw
was the face of Jesus. He almost dropped the plate.
And who wouldn't, I mean, how startling is that? Yeah,
And we show all this in the film and we
(07:38):
you know, really do a deep dive and talking about
Secundipia because he's the first man in two thousand years
to see the face of Jesus. And once once the
photography is there, this opens up the whole study of
the shroud, and and everybody, Jews, Catholics, Protestant, Theologian, skeptics,
(07:58):
everybody starts looking at this artifact and wondering about it.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
How bad was the damage dry a fire in fifteen
thirty two.
Speaker 3 (08:05):
The image, the dam the image is laid. George, forgive me.
The damage was. It was bad, but it didn't destroy
the image at all. And the fire you could actually
see the burn marks that are there. They're still in
the shroud today. The poor sisters of Claire and others
(08:27):
did repair work on the shout after the fifteenth century
fire which skewed the carbon fourteen to eighty. This is why.
And that's a whole conspiracy theory in itself. And Malay
Barry Schwartz talked about that in our Watchers film with
my ex business partner. Richard Challi passed away a number
of years ago, very untimely departure, massive, massive art attack.
(08:51):
Died on the operating table, and that was that was
very traumatic. But Barry Schwartz, you know, we're in his
house in Colorado. We're about ten twelve thousand feet up,
way up in the in the rockies, and Barry Schwartz was,
you know, quite a character. He actually had a picture,
(09:15):
a replica of the face in his bedroom, so you
know he was. He was really into it, really into it.
Speaker 2 (09:24):
I had him on one of my Beyond Belief television shows. Yeah,
b the depiction of the shroud and it's huge.
Speaker 3 (09:33):
Yeah it's Barry talks about the C fourteen dating and
how there was a million pounds reward given anonymously to
Oxford University for proving the shroud was a fake. And
what most people don't know, there were protocols that were
set up that the team that went in to do
(09:54):
the carbon fourteen dating, he just don't go, yeah, we'd
like to come in and take some you know, sample
from the shroud so we can do some CEA fourteen
to eighty. It doesn't work that way. It goes back
and forth and people are we're going to take it
from here, We're gonna take it from here. The protocols
were set in place, and then the day comes when
the scientists are there, they're gonna get the samples. The
guys in the suit, Steorge, they come walking in, well,
(10:16):
oh wait, stop, don't do anything and they show all
the all the C fourteen guys out, and then like
two or three hours later, everybody reassembles and they go,
you're going to take one sample from the bottom of
the shroud, the bottom corner of the shroud, and they
do that and it comes back, Oh, it's a medieval fake.
Those of us who were studying the shroud though something's
(10:37):
up here, something's wrong. Entered Joe Marino. When Barry Schwartz
passed away, he gave shroud dot com to Joe Marino.
Joe's in the film, and Joe is a monk in
a monastery studying the shroud, and he goes online and
meets this woman, Sue, and they fall in love and
he leaves the monastery and they get married and they
(10:57):
write this paper on the shroud. And basically the paper
was stating that because of the sample, they believed there
was a reweave that was done in the fifteenth century
which skewed the carbon fourteen dating. So Ray Rodgers, who
was on the original Shrouded Tour and Research Project or STIRP,
(11:17):
and he had samples of it. He had samples from
the ray of Samples, which is right next to where
the CEA fourteen dating was done later on. He actually
got leftover samples from the piece of cloth from the
sea fourteen dating. So Ray Rodgers goes down and he's
seeing himself, well, I can disprove this in five minutes,
and he takes the sample, puts it in the microscope
(11:38):
into his amazement. It's not linen. It's cotton, and it's
been dyed to look like the linen. So they went
with that. They published peer review papers showed that it
was a patch job or rewe wohich skew the carbon
fourteen dating? What's annoying to those of us who have
studied the shroud when you go on I won't name
the name, but most people know it. It begins with
(11:59):
a W. And they still tell the bogus C. Fourteen
dating and declare that the shroud was a medieval forgery.
And once again there's a million dollar a one million
dollar reward for anyone who can duplicate the shroud and
show how it was made, and nobody can do it.
Nobody can do it, purely remarkable.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
The modern photo of the face is amazing.
Speaker 3 (12:23):
Yeah, it is really is startling.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
Very well, what does that tell you about who Jesus
might have been.
Speaker 3 (12:31):
Well, you know, it's it's in all of history. He's
the only man that has risen from the dead. I mean,
that's it. There's a lot of people have been raised
from the dead. I get that. But you know, he's
in a tune. The tomb is seal. The Romans are
guarding this thing, and we believe that there's time and
space stopped as we know it. There was a singularity.
(12:52):
There was a moment of time where it just if
it had gone on any longer, the universe wouldn't exist.
To Dame Isabelle picks It, who's also deceased, is in
the film, and you know she talks about this because
what we see on the shroud is a frontal image
and then a dorsal image, and they're completely apart from
each other. They're they're not, they're not. There are two
(13:16):
separate distinct images on the shroud, the frontial image and
then the dorsal image. Because he was wrapped in the shroud,
it went over his body and then he was laying
on it. So when the body dematerializes like and and
who knows how many infinite points of light, there's some
(13:36):
sort of you know, you can call it radiation. There's
a burst of light. We don't know exactly what it is,
but that that creates the image on the shroud. It's
not a burn, by the way, it's not a burn
because it doesn't it doesn't fluoresce. Barry Schwartz did backlighting
on the shroud, and you can see the blood and
all this other stuff, but you don't you don't see
(13:57):
the image. So it's it wasn't earned on you know,
the forensics on this thing, George. I mean for a
thirteen fourteenth century forger to understand what Billy Ruben is
and the mixture of blood and watar coming out of
the room on the side which is there in the
shroud to show the nails don't go through the palms.
(14:20):
How many pictures have we seen where if the nails
are in the palms, they don't go through the palms,
they're at the base of the palm and they come
out the other side of the wrist. That's what pins
him to the cross. So it's like, you know, it's
it's just like God in a way he was tortured,
though this man was. I mean that there's no coming
(14:42):
down from this thing. And yet those around him. You know,
the crowd. He saved others, save himself. If your God,
come down. They're all waiting for him to come down.
This is this is where it gets really deep, really theologically,
it gets really deep because Mary's there, the two Mary'sry, Magalen,
Mary's mother, John, the Apostle. I mean, all these people
(15:04):
were there. They're waiting, and you know why they're waiting,
because how do you kill God? They know who he is.
I mean, there's no doubt that they know who he is.
They know he's God, he's fully God, he's fully man.
They're waiting for him to come down. That's why the
crowd is yelling, come down.
Speaker 1 (15:21):
You say that was saying.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
But he was in a human body, was.
Speaker 3 (15:25):
In a human body for the first time ever, first
and last time ever, by the way, And so he's
the prototype of the resurrection of where those of us
who believe in him, that's the prototype. That's where we're
all going.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
And the Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, all
four of them talk about how he was wrapped up,
the body was wrapped up in a linen after the crucifixion.
They all say that.
Speaker 3 (15:54):
Yeah, they do, and that's what's so interesting. I remember
the Gospels are written, you know, in some cases years
after the actual events. So the fact that it's mentioned
is starling. And there's another artifact, and I think you
know about it, the Sidarium of Oviedo. And the sdarium
of Oviedo is just this cloth and it's just got
(16:15):
blood and effusion. It's just it's a disgusting mess. Why
would anyone keep this? Jewish law stays that you know,
anything with blood from the victim goes into the tomb.
So that's the napkin that the Gospel of John records.
It's folded up and near the body where the body lay.
So the Sidarium of Oviedo has been in Oviedo, Spain
(16:36):
since the seventh century. This is where it gets really interesting.
And you can only do this in modernity with the
science that we have. So they look at the sidarium
and they place the sadarium. They do this all digitally
by the way they take they take, you know, pictures
of a sadarium and put it over the face. Because
(16:56):
when Jesus was taken down from the cross, his was
wrapped in this in this towel, in this cloth called
the Sodarium of Oviedo. And so when you take the
sidarium and you overlay it over the man on the shroud,
over the face. Get this, George, there's one hundred and
twenty points of congruency between the two artifacts. Now, how
(17:18):
is that possible? How? And we know it's been in
space since the seventh century we know that, I mean,
that's historically document it. So there's a connection. Same blood type,
by the way, ab So it's all there. And what's
interesting about the Sadarium. We show this in the film.
We show the shroud, the Scedarium, and then the Holy Fire.
We think what's called the Holy Fire was the uh,
(17:44):
the instrument if I can use that word, which created
the image. That's conjecture on our part, but that's how
we think it might have been done. It makes sense
because the holy you know, I'm getting ahead of myself here,
but the Holy Fire is something that that's quite amazing.
So when you look at the forensics on the shroud,
you look at the scourge and you look at it's
not a crown of thorn, it's this helmet of thorns,
(18:07):
and that itself would have caused anybody to go in
the shock because you know, you get to stuck them
right in his forehead, in the forehead, and you can
see all those wounds on the shroud itself. I mean
they're there. It's very graphic.
Speaker 1 (18:20):
Listen to more Coast to Coast AM every weeknight at
one a m. Eastern and go to Coast to coastam
dot com for more
Now here's a highlight from Coast to Coast AM on
iHeartRadio and.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Welcome back George Nori with you. You've got a great
couple hours coming up with you with La Marzuli, author
of a number of books, DVDs and films. He is
a supernaturalist and thinks humanity is headed for what he
has called to come, the coming Great Deception. La. Welcome back,
my friend.
Speaker 3 (00:21):
Have you been real good? George, thanks for having me on.
Good to hear your voice.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Looking forward to this and your trailer is fantastic. Holy
Thank you're out Holy Fire. We've got it linked up
at Coast tocoastam dot com.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
Thank you sir.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
When did you come out with this film?
Speaker 3 (00:36):
Well, it's only been released about a week at most.
It took us about a year. My business partner and I,
Gil Zimmerman, we sort of had to redirect and realized that, wow,
we need to hop on this when we started to
hear about this phenomenon that's been going on for seventeen
hundred years, i e. The Holy Fire, which has been
(00:57):
happening at the site in Jerusalem known as the Church
of the Holy Supulcher. So we kind of redirected our steps.
We were actually going to go across the pond, and
we had all these archaeologists and sites and museums and
storytellers and druids and everything else, and we pulled the
plug on it and focused on this film. And like
I said, it took us about a year from start
(01:19):
to finish to actually get it. But it's available Elimarzoli
dot com. You can stream it for under five bucks.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
You can't beat that. That's a great little weekend night. Huh.
There you go, the Shroud of Turan. Give me your
impression of what it is.
Speaker 3 (01:35):
Well, it's not a painting. It's not applied by the
hand of man. There's no die on it, there's no
paint on it. It's never been reproduced at all. I mean,
skeptics try to come up with something, but there doesn't
get anything like it. So we're looking. In my opinion,
and I've been on the show before talking about it
calling it God's calling card, because in my opinion, I
think that's what it is. I think it's forensic evidence
(01:58):
of the greatest event of history, the resurrection of the
fully god fully maned Jesus of Nazareth. And I mean
when scientists look at this thing. There's actually a there's
actually a clip in the film where Russ pray All,
who's a professional syndinologist, someone who studies the shroud. He's
written books on it. Joe Marino's same thing, written books
(02:20):
on it. These guys are a lot, way, way deeper
than I am. And I consider myself not in the
shallow end of the pool. But you know, Joe Marino's
written four hundred and five hundred pages on this thing,
so it's very very deep. And in the film, Russ
Praelle goes, it either is or it isn't, and if
it isn't, then what is it? And no one can
come up with it. There's actually right now a million
(02:42):
a million dollar reward for anyone who can show how
the show was made, and there are no takers because
something very enigmatic is on this cloth. And the cloth
is about three and a half feet by about fourteen feet.
It bears the image of a crucified man, but very
difficult to see, and in order to in order to
(03:02):
really see it, you got to step back about six
or seven feet. When you get up close to it,
it just it just fades away because it's on the
image is on the very very top most part of
the weave. It's a herringbone weave on a linen cloth,
very very top of the fibrils, and the image is
actually fading, which is kind of bizarre in itself, but
(03:23):
I mean it's it's the most studied artifact on the planet.
There's no doubt about that. And we can talk about
the carbon fourteen dating and how that was completely skewed
and and all the other things, but it's uh, I
call it God's calling card. And and the you know,
the deeper I go into it, the more I study it.
(03:44):
And let me just do a little sidebar here. When
I was in the edit booth working on the film,
and uh, you know, Gil and I are working on
this scene together and we got to the scourging and
that's where they spear. Right. Well, no, the scourging is different.
The scourging is when he's tied to a pillar and
(04:06):
the Romans are whipping him. Now, you know, I've been
a Christian for forty five years and I've read the Gospels,
but you know, okay, he scourge You think, well, maybe
it wasn't that bad. Then you look at the shroud
and it's like, oh, my gosh, he was beaten, with
him within an inch of his life. The scourging is very,
very brutal, extremely so there's not an inch on his
(04:27):
body that's not lacerated in some way. And the only
place that the Roman and these guys are professional tortures,
I mean, this is what they do. That The only
the only place that the whips didn't hit was right
where the heart is because if they hit him there
they could kill him. So he's he's basically scourged within
an inch of his life. I mean, it's brutal. The
(04:50):
scourging is really brutal, and all of that comes out
on the shroud. I mean people didn't realize it until
eighteen ninety eight. Was Sekundapia. We can talk about that,
but that's when that's when this whole thing opens up.
Eighteen ninety eight.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
Now the shroud was discovered when thirteen hundreds.
Speaker 3 (05:08):
Actually, no, it's been moved around. And remember you know
it has blood on it, number one, number two when
Jerusalem is sacked in a d seventy and this is
extra you know, apocryphal literature. But before the Romans came down,
many of the Christians left the city. They just went,
(05:30):
something's up and they left the city. So some of
its conjecture exactly you know where it went. But there's
pollen on it, and the pollen shows the trace of
the shroud from Jerusalem. Then it goes up up and
through the Middle East, winds up in Turkey for a while,
then it winds up in France then finally and touring Italy.
(05:51):
So you know, people make a big deal about well,
it's got to be a forgery, blah blah blah, but
this is this is what's so interesting about it. There's
never been a skeptic or a scientist that's been able
to reproduce the image at all on any level. And
there's actually and I remember watching this this is years
(06:12):
ago in the History channel, the shroud has three dimensional
information on it, So how is that done? I mean,
if it's a forgery, if it's from a thirteenth century,
then you know how how is that done? And then
the shroud is a negative image. And going back to
Secunda Pia eighteen ninety eight, you remember photography is sort
(06:34):
of in its infancy. You got these old box cameras.
It's not the iPhone where you go snap snapstap hey
look at this. It's not that these are wooden wooden
box cameras, you know, with a with a hood that
the guy gets under and focuses the lenses and puts
the glass plate in and it takes a while for
the image to come on the glass plate. Pulls that
glass plate out, puts it in the holder. Then he
(06:56):
goes into his dark room and he's mixing the chemicals
and and he's got he's looking at the headshop. That's
the first the first glass plate that he develops, and
he almost drops the plate. This is no, you know,
nothing apocryphal. This is s couldn't be his own words,
because what came up out of the negative, which should
(07:16):
have been a negative image, was actually a positive image.
So what's on the shroud is a negative image. And
when you when Sakunipia took that photograph, what he saw
was the face of Jesus. He almost dropped the plate.
And who wouldn't, I mean, how startling is that? Yeah,
And we show all this in the film and we
(07:38):
you know, really do a deep dive and talking about
Secundipia because he's the first man in two thousand years
to see the face of Jesus. And once once the
photography is there, this opens up the whole study of
the shroud, and and everybody, Jews, Catholics, Protestant, Theologian, skeptics,
(07:58):
everybody starts looking at this artifact and wondering about it.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
How bad was the damage dry a fire in fifteen
thirty two.
Speaker 3 (08:05):
The image, the dam the image is laid. George, forgive me.
The damage was. It was bad, but it didn't destroy
the image at all. And the fire you could actually
see the burn marks that are there. They're still in
the shroud today. The poor sisters of Claire and others
(08:27):
did repair work on the shout after the fifteenth century
fire which skewed the carbon fourteen to eighty. This is why.
And that's a whole conspiracy theory in itself. And Malay
Barry Schwartz talked about that in our Watchers film with
my ex business partner. Richard Challi passed away a number
of years ago, very untimely departure, massive, massive art attack.
(08:51):
Died on the operating table, and that was that was
very traumatic. But Barry Schwartz, you know, we're in his
house in Colorado. We're about ten twelve thousand feet up,
way up in the in the rockies, and Barry Schwartz was,
you know, quite a character. He actually had a picture,
(09:15):
a replica of the face in his bedroom, so you
know he was. He was really into it, really into it.
Speaker 2 (09:24):
I had him on one of my Beyond Belief television shows. Yeah,
b the depiction of the shroud and it's huge.
Speaker 3 (09:33):
Yeah it's Barry talks about the C fourteen dating and
how there was a million pounds reward given anonymously to
Oxford University for proving the shroud was a fake. And
what most people don't know, there were protocols that were
set up that the team that went in to do
(09:54):
the carbon fourteen dating, he just don't go, yeah, we'd
like to come in and take some you know, sample
from the shroud so we can do some CEA fourteen
to eighty. It doesn't work that way. It goes back
and forth and people are we're going to take it
from here, We're gonna take it from here. The protocols
were set in place, and then the day comes when
the scientists are there, they're gonna get the samples. The
guys in the suit, Steorge, they come walking in, well,
(10:16):
oh wait, stop, don't do anything and they show all
the all the C fourteen guys out, and then like
two or three hours later, everybody reassembles and they go,
you're going to take one sample from the bottom of
the shroud, the bottom corner of the shroud, and they
do that and it comes back, Oh, it's a medieval fake.
Those of us who were studying the shroud though something's
(10:37):
up here, something's wrong. Entered Joe Marino. When Barry Schwartz
passed away, he gave shroud dot com to Joe Marino.
Joe's in the film, and Joe is a monk in
a monastery studying the shroud, and he goes online and
meets this woman, Sue, and they fall in love and
he leaves the monastery and they get married and they
(10:57):
write this paper on the shroud. And basically the paper
was stating that because of the sample, they believed there
was a reweave that was done in the fifteenth century
which skewed the carbon fourteen dating. So Ray Rodgers, who
was on the original Shrouded Tour and Research Project or STIRP,
(11:17):
and he had samples of it. He had samples from
the ray of Samples, which is right next to where
the CEA fourteen dating was done later on. He actually
got leftover samples from the piece of cloth from the
sea fourteen dating. So Ray Rodgers goes down and he's
seeing himself, well, I can disprove this in five minutes,
and he takes the sample, puts it in the microscope
(11:38):
into his amazement. It's not linen. It's cotton, and it's
been dyed to look like the linen. So they went
with that. They published peer review papers showed that it
was a patch job or rewe wohich skew the carbon
fourteen dating? What's annoying to those of us who have
studied the shroud when you go on I won't name
the name, but most people know it. It begins with
(11:59):
a W. And they still tell the bogus C. Fourteen
dating and declare that the shroud was a medieval forgery.
And once again there's a million dollar a one million
dollar reward for anyone who can duplicate the shroud and
show how it was made, and nobody can do it.
Nobody can do it, purely remarkable.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
The modern photo of the face is amazing.
Speaker 3 (12:23):
Yeah, it is really is startling.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
Very well, what does that tell you about who Jesus
might have been.
Speaker 3 (12:31):
Well, you know, it's it's in all of history. He's
the only man that has risen from the dead. I mean,
that's it. There's a lot of people have been raised
from the dead. I get that. But you know, he's
in a tune. The tomb is seal. The Romans are
guarding this thing, and we believe that there's time and
space stopped as we know it. There was a singularity.
(12:52):
There was a moment of time where it just if
it had gone on any longer, the universe wouldn't exist.
To Dame Isabelle picks It, who's also deceased, is in
the film, and you know she talks about this because
what we see on the shroud is a frontal image
and then a dorsal image, and they're completely apart from
each other. They're they're not, they're not. There are two
(13:16):
separate distinct images on the shroud, the frontial image and
then the dorsal image. Because he was wrapped in the shroud,
it went over his body and then he was laying
on it. So when the body dematerializes like and and
who knows how many infinite points of light, there's some
(13:36):
sort of you know, you can call it radiation. There's
a burst of light. We don't know exactly what it is,
but that that creates the image on the shroud. It's
not a burn, by the way, it's not a burn
because it doesn't it doesn't fluoresce. Barry Schwartz did backlighting
on the shroud, and you can see the blood and
all this other stuff, but you don't you don't see
(13:57):
the image. So it's it wasn't earned on you know,
the forensics on this thing, George. I mean for a
thirteen fourteenth century forger to understand what Billy Ruben is
and the mixture of blood and watar coming out of
the room on the side which is there in the
shroud to show the nails don't go through the palms.
(14:20):
How many pictures have we seen where if the nails
are in the palms, they don't go through the palms,
they're at the base of the palm and they come
out the other side of the wrist. That's what pins
him to the cross. So it's like, you know, it's
it's just like God in a way he was tortured,
though this man was. I mean that there's no coming
(14:42):
down from this thing. And yet those around him. You know,
the crowd. He saved others, save himself. If your God,
come down. They're all waiting for him to come down.
This is this is where it gets really deep, really theologically,
it gets really deep because Mary's there, the two Mary'sry, Magalen,
Mary's mother, John, the Apostle. I mean, all these people
(15:04):
were there. They're waiting, and you know why they're waiting,
because how do you kill God? They know who he is.
I mean, there's no doubt that they know who he is.
They know he's God, he's fully God, he's fully man.
They're waiting for him to come down. That's why the
crowd is yelling, come down.
Speaker 1 (15:21):
You say that was saying.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
But he was in a human body, was.
Speaker 3 (15:25):
In a human body for the first time ever, first
and last time ever, by the way, And so he's
the prototype of the resurrection of where those of us
who believe in him, that's the prototype. That's where we're
all going.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
And the Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, all
four of them talk about how he was wrapped up,
the body was wrapped up in a linen after the crucifixion.
They all say that.
Speaker 3 (15:54):
Yeah, they do, and that's what's so interesting. I remember
the Gospels are written, you know, in some cases years
after the actual events. So the fact that it's mentioned
is starling. And there's another artifact, and I think you
know about it, the Sidarium of Oviedo. And the sdarium
of Oviedo is just this cloth and it's just got
(16:15):
blood and effusion. It's just it's a disgusting mess. Why
would anyone keep this? Jewish law stays that you know,
anything with blood from the victim goes into the tomb.
So that's the napkin that the Gospel of John records.
It's folded up and near the body where the body lay.
So the Sidarium of Oviedo has been in Oviedo, Spain
(16:36):
since the seventh century. This is where it gets really interesting.
And you can only do this in modernity with the
science that we have. So they look at the sidarium
and they place the sadarium. They do this all digitally
by the way they take they take, you know, pictures
of a sadarium and put it over the face. Because
(16:56):
when Jesus was taken down from the cross, his was
wrapped in this in this towel, in this cloth called
the Sodarium of Oviedo. And so when you take the
sidarium and you overlay it over the man on the shroud,
over the face. Get this, George, there's one hundred and
twenty points of congruency between the two artifacts. Now, how
(17:18):
is that possible? How? And we know it's been in
space since the seventh century we know that, I mean,
that's historically document it. So there's a connection. Same blood type,
by the way, ab So it's all there. And what's
interesting about the Sadarium. We show this in the film.
We show the shroud, the Scedarium, and then the Holy Fire.
We think what's called the Holy Fire was the uh,
(17:44):
the instrument if I can use that word, which created
the image. That's conjecture on our part, but that's how
we think it might have been done. It makes sense
because the holy you know, I'm getting ahead of myself here,
but the Holy Fire is something that that's quite amazing.
So when you look at the forensics on the shroud,
you look at the scourge and you look at it's
not a crown of thorn, it's this helmet of thorns,
(18:07):
and that itself would have caused anybody to go in
the shock because you know, you get to stuck them
right in his forehead, in the forehead, and you can
see all those wounds on the shroud itself. I mean
they're there. It's very graphic.
Speaker 1 (18:20):
Listen to more Coast to Coast AM every weeknight at
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Host
George Noory
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