November 18, 2024 • 50 mins
A very personal episode this week for Morgan. One of her favorite high school teachers Mrs. Manning comes on the episode as the guest AND expert. Mrs. Manning's classroom was a safe space for Morgan when she went through a really difficult bullying situation her senior year of high school. Not only that, Morgan's situation inspired Mrs. Manning to go back to school so she could switch paths from math teacher to high school counselor. The two talk about what happened over decade ago & how it shaped both of their lives forever. Mrs. Manning also provides insight for parents on how to best help their kids on topics related to bullying, suicide, anxiety, and mental health.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
Duel Space.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Well, hello, everybody, Welcome to another episode. I will be
making things personal this week, as I typically do within
most of the episodes, but this one is very personal.
If you've been listening from the beginning. In episode one,
I broke down some of the pivotal moments in my life,
one of them being that I got bullied really bad
in high school and I haven't really talked about the
(00:38):
details of it.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
Now.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Why this episode this week is so special is because
I am bringing on one of my high school teachers
who was a safe space for me when I was
going through this really, really horrible time. Her name is
missus Manning, and I've stayed in touch with her over
the years, and we've always wanted to do something to
help students never have to deal with something that I
dealt with, or if they do, at the very least
(01:01):
have the tools to do it. And I knew when
I created this podcast that I wanted her to be
one of the episodes. Now, in the interview, you're going
to hear me reference some of the things that happened
to me in high school and explain them a little bit.
But before we get into it, I wanted to give
you a little bit deeper knowledge of the story, so
you maybe feel a little bit more included as the
story is being told with missus Manning. So, I had
(01:22):
been on the cheerleading squad for my entire high school career.
I joined when I was a freshman. I did junior varsity,
and then I went on to be varsity. And I
had been friends with a group of girls for many years,
and we were all on the cheerleading team together, and
we had done cheer camps and all kinds of things.
We were all such great friends that we had multiple sleepovers.
I have photo albums upon photo albums of all of
(01:43):
the times and things we had done together. Well, it
was as if overnight they decided they no longer wanted
to be friends with me, which would have been fine,
but you know, girls in high school don't really know
how to handle things properly. So it wasn't handled as Okay,
we just don't want to be friends with her, and
we're going to gradually distance. Instead it was we're gonna
(02:03):
spread rumors and make her feel horrible about herself and
make her hate her life. So these girls who I
once trusted told all my secrets to who I believed
were great friends for life, all of a sudden became
my enemies, for lack of a better way to put it.
And when they decided that, that's when all the rumors
began and all the horrible things that they wanted to
say about me started. Around the school, I heard so
(02:25):
many different things about my life that were never true,
and I was made to believe that I was bad
and I was this horrible person and I didn't deserve
to have any friends. These were just some of the
things that started this whole wildfire of a horrible senior
year for me. Now, I was a flyer on our
cheerleading squad, and for anybody who's familiar with cheerleading or not,
(02:48):
that's the one that goes up in the air and
they are trusting the bases with their life. Anything that happens.
Anytime you see a fall, it is the basis and
flyer combined. And while I was up in the air
one day, I overheard my bullies aka previous friends say
I hope she falls on her face and dies. And
that particular phrase has been teared into my brain. I
(03:09):
couldn't forget it if I want to. Now, there are
many things I have tried to forget after I healed
from this whole situation that happened, But that particular phrase
has never ever left my brain, and I don't think
ever will. I'm not gonna sit here in detail every
single moment that happened, with the things that they said
about me or what happened. But this is just to
(03:30):
give some context into the situation that I was dealing with.
And on top of that, there was a new cheer
coach and she had a daughter that was joining the
team as a freshman, and for whatever reason, I became
the target. She wanted her daughter in my place, even
though it was my senior year. She wanted her daughter
on the varsity cheer squad in the flying position, and
(03:51):
I became the one that she was going to take
down to make that happen. So naturally, when you have
a group of girls and then an older woman who's
in a position of past all choose the same person
to go after. It was your perfect storm of a
literal tornado. And I use that kind of as a
pun because it was in Kansas. Now, this is where
(04:12):
I'm going to inter Missus Manning, who was one of
my teachers at the time, and she became my safe
space because as rumors were being spread about me, and
horrible things were being talked behind my back, and these
girls in this group of people were trying to turn
everyone that I used to know or believed as a
friend against me. I started to hide out in Missus
(04:32):
Manning's classroom for multiple periods of the day, and she
was the only place that really made me feel safe
at school. So that's a little peak into the story.
Now there's details, twist, turns and curves that I am
not including here, but it's a baseline to give you
context of why Missus Manning played such an important role
in my life and why I'm bringing her on to
(04:53):
not only speak to my situation, but also to help
parents of kids who have been bullied, or to help
people who've experienced this particular type of situation as they
were growing up or in different situations as they've gotten older.
And I would like to add that while this particular
part of my story is heartbreaking and something no one
(05:15):
should ever have to go through, I do acknowledge that
this is the reason why the second half of my
senior year I finished my high school education from home
and would go on to spend some of my extra
time in turning at a news station and a radio station,
and I would get college credits, and then I would
go on to graduate in three years from college and
(05:38):
end up on the Bobby Bone Show because of that timeline.
So there was a reason this all happened, although it
never should have and I never wish it for anyone.
I can look at my story now and realize what
a special position the universe put me in to be
able to be where I am today. And I do
want to put a trigger warning here just in case
(06:00):
we are going to talk about suicide later in the interview,
and I want anybody who that may be triggering to
to have a heads up that it's coming. And if
you're uncomfortable with that particular topic, maybe this isn't the
best interview to listen to, although I do implore anybody
else that even if the topic makes you uncomfortable, I
think it's a very important one that a lot of
(06:21):
people will need to hear. This is a really special
episode for me and one that has been an idea
(06:43):
of mine for so many years.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
Now.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
I am joined by Missus Manning, who was one of
my high school teachers, and as I like to say,
my angel in high school that really helped save my
life in a lot of ways. How are you, Missus Manning.
Speaker 3 (07:00):
I'm doing fabulous. I am so happy to get to
sit here and chat with you today. And you are
too kind. I just happened to be somebody who was
able to be in the right place at the right time.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
So I'm glad that you think of me that way.
But you might be a.
Speaker 2 (07:13):
Little too generous, no, I am not. I often connect
you to Have you seen the movie Matilda? Of course
you were Matilda's teacher for me. You were that person
in my life when I was going through high school.
Speaker 1 (07:26):
And Missus Honey, I love that.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
Yes, you know it is, and you are very special
in that way, not just because you were an incredible
human being, but Missus Manning was a safe space for
me when I was going through a really horrible bullying
situation in high school. These were girls who I had,
once upon a time thought were my friends and that
quickly changed and I didn't like being at school. It
(07:51):
was a really dark time for me. So we're going
to pull on some past memories here though, Missus Manny.
We're going to see if you recall things and kind
of similar way for me, but from your experience as
a teacher, and we're going to kind of walk this
back a little bit. At this time, you were a
math teacher, which was ironic because it was my most
horrible subject. And I still didn't stay I'm not good
at math.
Speaker 1 (08:10):
Stop that, stop that I want to go. Can you
still remember the distance formula song?
Speaker 2 (08:16):
No?
Speaker 1 (08:17):
Okay, now my heart's broken.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
And it was never a reflection of you as a teacher.
I just was never good at math. And you know this.
You know this because not only did I spend a
lot of time post all of this happening, but free
I was. And they're getting tutored often because it was
so bad at math.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
You have to quit this.
Speaker 3 (08:33):
You had straight a's in every class you ever took, ever,
like truly a real straight a all four years of
high school. So you may not have liked it, but
you were definitely better than you think.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
Okay, well, I'll try and start changing my narrative on that.
But it was rough for me. But from your experience
at this time, and we'll get to like the career
change that happened later. But when you were a math
teacher and you had your student who you know was
going through something and became this like safe haven classroom
for you. What was that experience like for you?
Speaker 3 (09:04):
You know, being in the classroom is so unique because
you've got twenty five different stories that are sitting right
there in front of you, and if you take the
time to really get to know each one of them, like,
what a privilege to get to be a part of
that small piece of that story and hopefully get to
be a bright spot in somebody's day. You, girlfriend, you
(09:25):
had a lot going on and a lot of people
may not see that on the outside. You obviously are
beautiful and always have been, but you had these leadership positions,
and you were involved, and you were athletic, and.
Speaker 1 (09:39):
You were smart.
Speaker 3 (09:40):
But all of those things are great, they don't necessarily
shield us or protect us.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
From some of the ugliness that's in the world.
Speaker 3 (09:46):
And so if you take the time to see what's
really going on underneath the surface, it's pretty special. If
you can try to do something to help make that
a better experience for somebody.
Speaker 2 (09:55):
Yeah, and you not only were this safe way in
the school when the bullying situation was happening for me,
there was often being rumors spread about me on multiple levels,
and the reason I would often find a safe haven
in your classroom it was because I didn't want to
be around people as the classes were changing and getting
looked at as a kid who's sixteen, seventeen years old.
(10:20):
I didn't want to be around three hundred people who
seemed to think that there was all these horrible things
happening in my life and none of them were true,
but I couldn't do anything about it. And so being
able to come to your classroom just between pretty much
every I guess I don't know what they're called anymore,
but every single break in between classes, I was just
like running. I would even be across the other entire
(10:41):
end of the school and come there for a few
minutes and then run back to the other side because
it was just that safe place for me. How did
you manage that where you're like, do I need to
do something about this or do I just need to
let her keep doing this? Until because I don't know
that you knew a lot of the stuff that was
happening until it kind of progressed further. What was that
for you where you were like, how do I navigate
(11:03):
this situation and still make her feel safe.
Speaker 3 (11:05):
You're right, I kind of came into it late, so
I don't know if you remember, but shocker to the
people who know me, I don't have a lot of
background and cheerleading. It was absolutely not my wheelhouse. But
I kind of got to step in and kind of
help finish out a season, and that is one of
the ways I got to learn a little bit more
about what was going on kind of with.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
You and just wow, just wow.
Speaker 3 (11:30):
Truly, I can attribute that one experience to why I
went back to school and I decided to get a
degree in counseling instead of administration because I looked at
what was happening within this group of girls and the
power struggle and the bullying that's not what a lot
of people think of as bullying, but that true relational
(11:50):
aggression that happened, and I went, I'm not prepared to
deal with this. I need to if there's somewhere I
can make a difference in how to do better by
my students, this is something I need to learn learn
more about. So, yeah, coaching cheer for me was a
real catalyst that shot me into this new career path
and I'm grateful that I was there, and I'm glad
that I could help you.
Speaker 1 (12:11):
I would never do it again.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
No chance to give you guys some more context. So
the bullying that happened in my situation with some girls
that I was friends with and we had all cheered together.
This was my senior year of high school, so people
I had gone through my entire high school career with,
and I thought we were all friends, and then it
was kind of like I woke up one day and
they said horrible things about them. One that still is
(12:36):
very ingrained into my brain is the I hope she
falls on her face and dies. And as a cheerleader
who was a flyer and had to trust the people
below me with my life and I'm seventeen, hormonal girl,
that's the last thing you want to hear. And that
was just the beginning. Then it spun and spiraled then
(12:58):
multiple different directions. But then miss missus Manning came in
as one of our coaches because one of the coaches
was involved in things that were happening to me, because
she had somebody on our team that she felt was
better suited for my role, and it became kind of
this whole nightmare of a scenario with adults and other
(13:19):
kids involved. And that's when missus Manning came in, took
the coaching role, and she was like, what am I doing?
What is happening here? And you got thrown into a
fire not only of a sport that you were unfamiliar with,
but of a whole situation that was never handled, And
there wasn't a lot of talk. There wasn't a lot
of like, do better with your mental health and understand
your feelings and talk to people or talk to somebody.
(13:42):
None of that was the case. So not only did
you get thrown in in multiple levels, but you also
got thrown into a situation that was ill equipped to
handle any type of situation like that.
Speaker 1 (13:53):
Well and complicate matters even further. The cyberbullying was all
pretty fresh. I mean, it was new.
Speaker 3 (14:00):
We haven't had a lot of experience with it at
the time, and so even Kansas law at the time
was fairly unclear about what you could do as far
as consequences within the school day. Nobody doubted that some
things were happening. It was just a matter of are
these things that the school can actually act on? And
I'm grateful to say that Kansa's law has come around,
(14:20):
and you've got a little more leeway there where if
those types of things are affecting the school day and
preventing students from being able to access their education, administration
has more power to step in and a responsibility even
to intervene, Whereas before it was really predicated on well
did this happen outside of the school day? What's the timestamp?
(14:40):
Well did it happen at school? Was it on the
school you know device or school computer? And it was
just so frustrating because, let's be honest, bullies know what
they're doing, Okay, they are smart, they are intentional about it.
That power struggle, especially among girls, that relational aggression that
I mentioned earlier. It can look so many different ways,
(15:01):
but it is all intentional and it is covert, so
you really have to be looking to see it if
you're somebody on the outside. And that was kind of
my goal, I guess at all of this, was just
to have eyes wide open and try to take in
everything and see everything and try to make that a
little bit safer space for everybody.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
And you did, and that's why I felt so much
comfort in being able to just spend time in your
classroom as a lot of this was happening, and to
your point of there are people who are experiencing bullies,
and gosh, I wish there was a right way to
handle any of it. It's all so based on a
situation and how many factors are involved. There was a
(15:45):
particular thing that I definitely do not suggest for any
school administration, teacher or anything that was listening. And I
cannot remember if you had gotten involved. At this point.
They had put me in the girl who had been
saying most of the bad things about me and these
topics of conversation in the same room and said you
guys should talk about this, and our entire group or
(16:10):
a squad I guess you could say, was also in
that room, so it wasn't just her and I, it
was everybody in a room, and said you guys should
should sort this out. And I remember looking around the
eyes and I just said, why do you keep saying
these things about me? Because I didn't know what else
to say. You're sitting here telling me to talk to
the person who's, basically, in my eyes at that point,
ruined my life, and say what did I do to
deserve this? Which nobody should ever have to do. And
(16:32):
she just looked at me and just said, I don't
like you. There was no reason, there was no this happened,
and this is why I feel this way, and we
can work on this. There was nothing I could have
done to change anything. It was just I don't like you.
Speaker 1 (16:45):
Yeah, I don't think I was involved at that point.
I'm curious. Was there an adult in the room?
Speaker 2 (16:49):
Yeah, I believe so. It was one of our higher
administration at that point.
Speaker 1 (16:53):
Interesting, okay, yeah, and I don't.
Speaker 2 (16:55):
Like I said. I don't think you had gotten there
yet at that point. But that is when a lot
of bad things happen after that, because when you put
somebody who's been in a victim position and then the
bully in the same position, and all you're doing is
making that victim feel more vulnerable, what do you think
is the outcome? You know, it's just gonna be worse.
There's gonna be more horrible things to happen. So while
I can sit here and say I don't know the
(17:15):
right way to handle it, which is why I brought
on an expert of someone who is now a counselor,
and that's why I want to shift that geared to that,
but I can say that is definitely not the right
way to ever approach a situation with a bully and
somebody who's been bullied. So all that to say.
Speaker 3 (17:33):
Well, I'm really sorry to hear that that happened the
way it did. I think that schools have come a
long way, society has come a long ways. I mean,
we can talk about mental health now and it is
not a happy subject like it used to be. Sure,
there are a lot of families who still kind of
have that ingrained that you keep these things to yourself,
you bottle it out and keep it within the family.
Speaker 1 (17:54):
But as a whole we're.
Speaker 3 (17:56):
Able to access mental health supports different ways. I think
you'd be happy to know. Here at the high school
now we even have therapists that are in the building
who can meet with students, So we're not just making
referrals out. We're actually bringing those services in and trying
hard to make some of those barriers that people have
in the way of accessing mental health services be eliminated
(18:19):
so that we can help more students. I do think, though,
we have to look at the root cause of why
a lot of people start to act this way. You
go from being friends one day to enemies the next,
And I feel like, I mean, you call me an expert.
I don't know that I am, but just in what
that I've seen over the past fifteen plus years, typically
people are mean when they're insecure. There's something within themselves
(18:41):
that they are insecure about, and they don't know how
to see their self value or their self worth, and
so they try to raise themselves higher by putting other
people down. And so we as a school system work
on SEL lessons starting in kindergarten and we're implementing those
every single grade all the way through high school. We
(19:02):
have to teach people about empathy. We have to change
the narrative that just because some specifically with girls, just
because someone else is successful or beautiful or intelligent, that
doesn't take away from my worth. Let's all celebrate each
other and continue to build each other up. But that's
a narrative that we have to keep working on. So
(19:23):
I do think that goal systems have a huge.
Speaker 1 (19:26):
Role in this, and we're trying. We're working hard. Are
we there yet?
Speaker 2 (19:29):
No?
Speaker 3 (19:29):
But again, I think when you're insecure, it can come
out as ugliness, whether it's to yourself or specifically to others.
So one of the things we have to do is
we have to start targeting, especially the people who are
maybe being the tormentors, and try to help them evaluate
where does their self worth and their self value come from?
Speaker 1 (19:47):
Not there, we have to build that.
Speaker 2 (19:49):
I love to hear that so many of these things
are being implemented now, and I'm not surprised either, because
to your point, we have grown so much as a
society and understanding that we can't just keep pushing these
things under the rug and moving past them. They have
to be addressed. So explain to me a little bit more.
You said, there's a program that you guys have in
place from kindergarten to high school. What is that?
Speaker 3 (20:10):
So we have sel social emotional lessons each level. So
our elementary school they break it down by grade level.
It's actually a class that the students have, counselors come.
Speaker 1 (20:20):
In and teach.
Speaker 3 (20:21):
We get informations at home in their backpacks, so I,
as a parent get to know that this week my
kids worked on forgiveness or they got to work on
grit and what does it look like to have grit
and to be resilient empathy specifically, So you know, these
keep circling back all the way through until high school.
And then in high school, you know, we have what
(20:42):
used to be your encore time. We call it flex
now kind of a study hall, and we've got sel
lessons that we do on Wednesdays during that time. So
we're just little reminders that you know, you may learn
it once or twice, but it's always a good idea
to be reminded of simple things like the golden rule.
You know, do you really want to treat other people
like that?
Speaker 1 (21:01):
What if it was you? And sometimes it sticks and
sometimes we just keep reteaching it.
Speaker 2 (21:06):
Also, having that as a lesson is really cool. You know,
we never had anything like that when I was going
through It was you just figured it out through life
and you got your feet thrown to the fire and
said figure it out and you learned by way of
other people, which I think we still have to do.
That's always going to be a thing no matter what.
But to have understandings of it because assuming that everybody
(21:27):
has the same experiences in their home and having those
lessons is not true unfortunately, you know, we wish it were,
but that's not the case. So being able to learn
that in a school that is a safe environment for that.
That's really awesome to hear, like as someone who did
go through what I went through, that it is starting
really young, and we're trying and we're doing different things
(21:49):
to help that process just emotionally, help people be better
humans and have more role models in their life.
Speaker 3 (21:56):
Well, the other thing that if I was going to
if you don't mind me, kind of going on a
tangent here, what I want to tell parents I think
we mentioned earlier. If your student or your kiddo is
going through bullying, please please please communicate with the school,
talk to us, let us know. Don't let your kids
suffer in silent. We have to know what's going on,
make a report. Bullying is usually persistent, consistent, it's targeted,
(22:19):
you know, severe, and so a lot of times it
does take we have to document. We can't just say
this one time Sally was mean, that's not necessarily bullying.
But once we have that documentation, that doesn't mean we
can't intervene at the very first time and say, hey,
how can we help Sally and make this be a
better situation. We can have eyes wide open and looking again.
(22:41):
Because sometimes bullying is not obvious and we have to
really be tuned in and watch to catch some of
those little things. Girls especially, they're tricky with the gossiping
and the rumors, the silent treatment. The big one for
middle school and high school girls I see is that
social exclusion where they're going to leave somebody out. Maybe
the group message goes to everybody except for that one person,
(23:04):
and that's hard. It's hard to see those things if
you're not paying attention and looking for it. So please
report to your school and let us know, give us
a chance to work. Trust the system, because I promise
there are people in the buildings who want to keep
your kids safe and happy, and we want them to
want to be here. There's more that we can be doing.
We need to be able to do everything we can
(23:25):
for your kiddo.
Speaker 2 (23:25):
I'm glad you said that because I do have a
lot of parents E listen, and I know that they
have a lot of their kids listen, and these messages
get ingrained and then hopefully passed down as people have
their own kids. The generations continue. There's something that reminded
me as you were saying this that if there are
any parents who are listening, I think the biggest message
that I often took away as I look back on
(23:48):
my high school time was that there is this huge,
huge life and world out there, and the bubble that
you're in in high school is not everything. It feels
like everything feels like anything that happens there. I cannot
tell you how many people in my life who've been
like I've been there. I felt high school like everything
was going to be over, and you feel like the
(24:09):
world is ending when things are happening there. But not
everybody finds their people in high school. Not everybody experiences
their high school sweetheart in high school. Not everybody goes
through these experiences, and if you're seeing them, there is
just this entirely huge world that has so many more
experiences waiting for you. And I so wish if there
(24:30):
is a message that I could communicate to students, it's
that because it takes the power away from what's happening
in high school to be this detrimental, world ending feeling.
Speaker 3 (24:41):
And I never felt that it's so hard because that
is your world, right. So when you graduate and go
to college, or when you finish college and you're on
your own, you get to have so much more choice
of who you spend time around. In high school, your
schedule is pre built for you. You've got this first
block class with these people and there's not really a.
Speaker 1 (25:01):
Way around it.
Speaker 3 (25:02):
So you've got kind of more walls and boundaries around
you that you have to figure out how to make
it work. But once you have the choice of who
you spend your time with, choose people wisely. Be around
those who build you up and energize you, not the
people who drain you. And that doesn't mean you can't
be friends with someone or love them. I mean, let's
be honest, there are people whose family members they have
(25:25):
to love at a distance. It doesn't mean they don't
love them, but maybe they need a little more space, right.
And I think that when it comes to friends, we
have to always focus more on quality over quantity. I
don't care how many friends you have. Really, all anybody
needs is one. You need one solid go to. I've
always got your back. You can tell me anything, your
(25:46):
secrets save with me. You need that friend. Just one
can save a life.
Speaker 2 (25:50):
It's tough with high school too, because we, as much
as we would love to say that the stereotypes aren't there,
they are there. Everybody wants to be loved everybody wants
to be popular. Everybody wants that power in high school.
It's the dream. You see it in movies, you see
it in TV shows. You want to be that person.
And I think there's something so beautiful as I look
back on it, and I just I wish that I
(26:12):
realized as a person going through those experiences that there
was so much more to life outside of that bubble
and understanding that even if you didn't have a bad experience,
maybe you had a great experience in high school and
then you went off and you did your own thing
and you made these incredible friends in your adult world.
Then you're like, oh, well I have my high school friends.
You can have both. It's just this understanding that is
(26:34):
just a season of your life in this world is
a season. It's not the whole story. It's not the
whole book that you're going to write. And I wish
that was a message that I understood better. I'm sure
I heard it, and I'm sure people tried to convince
me of that, But when you're in it, and when
you're in the thick of that and understanding and going
(26:54):
through that, there's no chance that you're going to see
it for what it is.
Speaker 1 (26:58):
You can't comprehend with you.
Speaker 2 (27:00):
I've been experienced yet there's beauty and history and there's
a lot of knowledge when you've experienced life. I do
call you an expert. I wanted to touch on a
little bit more. You shared a little bit at the beginning.
But this experience that you had with me transitioned you
to becoming a counselor. You went from math teacher to
a counselor. What has that been like for you and
are you glad that that transition ended up happening?
Speaker 3 (27:22):
YEA, so I love my job. I will be the
first one to tell you. I'm a huge nerd. Math
is my jam.
Speaker 1 (27:28):
Like I'll still write my budget with paper and pencil
just to get that little sensation of math, because I'm
just that person.
Speaker 3 (27:34):
I never had a chance. I come from a family
of educators. My dad's a math teacher, my sister is
the math teacher. So I'm just kind of one of
those sick people.
Speaker 2 (27:42):
But I love very intelligent, I think is the word
we're looking for.
Speaker 3 (27:47):
You had talked in a previous episode about which side
of the brain really works well for you.
Speaker 1 (27:52):
I've always been that analytical thinker, so I.
Speaker 3 (27:55):
Like rules, Switching over to counseling has been a very
rewarding experience. Not everybody had a similar experience to you,
but I've had a lot of students who shared with
me some really personal important things in their life, and
at the time as a teacher, I would do what
I could, kind of put a band aid on it
in the short term until I could get them down
(28:16):
to a counselor and then refer them over and kind
of hand them off to those experts and say, Okay,
here's what I've brought. You work your magic. And for me,
I wanted to know how the story ended. I needed
to know that they got the resources that they needed.
I needed to know that a report was filed if
it needed to be. You know, we do a little
bit that as a teacher, but I wanted to see
(28:39):
the family resolution come to pass.
Speaker 1 (28:41):
I just needed more.
Speaker 3 (28:43):
And so based on the experiences that I'd had with
students being willing to talk with me and share, I
felt like this was something I needed to pursue further.
So yes, my experience working I Joke with Cheer helped
me start that path.
Speaker 1 (28:57):
But really it was an absolute blessed and.
Speaker 3 (29:01):
Each day we get to start something fresh, and you know,
I might have a to do list of what I'd
like to get done in a day, but you never
know what's going to walk in your door. We do
a lot of things like provide breakfast or snacks.
Speaker 1 (29:13):
We do a lot of meeting basic needs.
Speaker 3 (29:16):
Even in the high school that we're in, I think
a lot of people view it as a very affluent school,
we still have all kinds of diversity.
Speaker 1 (29:23):
We still have students living in poverty.
Speaker 3 (29:26):
We have students whose basic needs are being met, So
we get to fill those gaps first. And once those
basic needs are met, then we have the ability to
dig a little deeper and you know, work on some
of maybe their emotional needs, and then.
Speaker 1 (29:41):
We get to the academics.
Speaker 3 (29:43):
Because you have to have those basic needs met. You
have to be in a ready to learn state before
the education piece can really sink in and stick.
Speaker 1 (29:52):
So it's a privilege to be a school counselor you're so.
Speaker 2 (29:55):
Good at it, you were born to be in the
educational field, There's no doubt about I'm very well aware
of that. I think anybody who's ever been in your presence,
worked with you can attest to that, and as someone
who was one of your students, I absolutely can. So
you can see it just in you talking about it.
Speaker 1 (30:12):
Well, thank you. I appreciate that when.
Speaker 2 (30:14):
You mentioned too, how you never know what's going to
walk in, something that I am a huge advocate for
because in my experiences of this time in high school,
for me, I was severely depressed and unfortunately had a
lot of thoughts of suicide. This was my first experience
with having a therapist, which unfortunately also for me, was
(30:36):
not the best therapy experience because again, there wasn't a
whole prolethora of therapists back then. Now you have so
many options and people to fit specific needs. This was
more like there was five and this seemed to be
the best, and nobody knew. We were just kinda she
needs help, what do we do? And that was something
that was very present in my life and continued throughout
(30:57):
the course of my life. But I I want to
talk about this because this is a topic that people
do not like to talk about. It is scary, it
is uncomfortable. The idea that people have thoughts of suicide
is turn it off. I don't want to hear about this.
But as a counselor, I imagine that this is a
topic for you, and it's experienced in schools often, and
(31:18):
I want to be able to help parents help their
kids if they are experiencing this, So as a counselor
maybe you can provide some further insight into that.
Speaker 3 (31:28):
Yes, we hope that in all situations the students really
comfortable in talking to their family and their parents. But
the truth is, oftentimes students feel their responsibility to kind
of shield their parents from the pain that they're feeling
because they're worried it's going to upset their parents. So
having somebody in the building that they can talk to,
whether it's a teacher, a coach, a counselor having somebody
(31:50):
that they feel safe with and is willing to have
these direct conversations with is so important. And then we
can help the students facilitate that conversation with parents, or
if the student doesn't feel like they can do it,
we can call and do it for them. But I
guess what I would tell people is don't be afraid
to use the word suicide. I think a lot of people,
like you said, are afraid of it the word itself
(32:11):
and asking the question are you feeling suicidal is not
going to plant any kind of an idea in somebody's
head if it wasn't already there. What you're doing is
you're saying, I am willing to ask a very difficult question,
and I will hold space for you no matter what
the answer is to that. So don't be afraid of
the word, ask the question. And then from there, we're
(32:33):
trained teachers and counselors alike anybody within the building to
go through and have a series of questions to decide
whether or not this is something, you know, we need
to act on immediately, or is it something that we
can process a little bit more. We do get parents
involved and make sure that they're comfortable with us having
these conversations, but we question and then we persuade that
(32:57):
person to get some help, whatever that looks like, whether
it's from an outside therapist, whether it's to go immediately
to your community crisis center where they have twenty four
to seven help available, to do an evaluation and potentially
find placement and make those referrals as needed to go
a little bit further. You know, if somebody were to
say yes and we want to decide severity, that's where
(33:19):
people who are very trained will start asking questions that
are maybe more like, do you have a plan? How
often do you think about this? If you do have
a plan, do you have access to what it is
that you would utilize? But first things first, parents, if
you're worried about this, you need to take action and
get help right away. And then don't think just because
(33:42):
you've got help and the next morning we wake up
and everybody seems fine that it's over. It's going to
be an ongoing process. So take precautions within your home.
Lock up your pills, make sure guns are put away,
locked away.
Speaker 2 (33:55):
If you have.
Speaker 3 (33:55):
Anybody in your family who's self harmed, you might have
to go a step further and put away some of
the show objects. But there are steps that we take
as schools and as parents to just make the people
around us know we care about them and to keep
them safe.
Speaker 1 (34:09):
Sorry, that was a lot, wasn't it.
Speaker 2 (34:10):
No, no, no, no, no no. It was important, is what
it was. And I wanted to give the space for
that to be important because it is a hard topic,
but it's one that I just I don't think people
realize how prevalent it is amongst so many people. And
I also want you if you feel comfortable to share.
(34:31):
For me, when I was experiencing that I had so
much shame associated with it, I was really disappointed in
myself that I felt that way, that I had these
experiences and I couldn't just get it together and be okay.
What are some things that maybe you would tell parents
if their kid is experiencing this, how they can support
their kids to not feel that shame, Because I think
(34:52):
the reason why it's so difficult to talk about is
because you feel horrible that you feel this way on
top of already feeling what you feel. Maybe if they're
tools for parents to open that door a little bit further,
that maybe it doesn't feel so heavy.
Speaker 3 (35:06):
So a couple of things that I would recommend. It's
not easy and your team won't love it, but get
them away from their cell phone for a while. There
are a lot of great tools that are available, and
I know the world has changed, but the amount of
issues that I see stem from having a cell phone
in their hand twenty four to seven all the time
(35:27):
is so overwhelming. The constant information, the constant notifications, the
inability to just be present and in the moment, the
fomo right, there's so much that's tied to that. If
we can just distance, put it away, don't let them
have it in their room at night, have them charge
their phones upstairs away from their bedroom, and just let
(35:48):
that become a pattern. Give them some distance and some
freedom from that cell phone. They may not see it
as freedom, but it is exercise and it doesn't have
to be intense. So for a walk with your kid
and just talk with them. Make that a habit if
you can, be preemptive. So if you're listening to this
and thinking, oh, I'm so grateful my child doesn't have
(36:09):
this going on, be proactive and keep those lines of
communication open. Build those healthy habits now that can help
prevent getting to this point then. And I think you
just over communicate. If there's such a thing to your
child that you love them no matter what, there's nothing
ever that they could say or do that would stop
that love, and that they can tell you anything. That
(36:31):
doesn't mean that there won't be consequences for your action,
but it just ensures that unconditional love and positive regard
that I'm going to help you through anything, and there's
nothing that we can't get through together.
Speaker 2 (36:42):
Those are really good pieces of advice and very thankful
that I had parents who were that for me. That's why, truthfully,
I made it through. A lot of what I made
it through was not only the support system that I
had in you and I had a few people who
rallied around me at school, but my family who just
allowed me to go through what I was going through
and were they were my biggest cheerleaders and being like,
(37:04):
we're here whatever you need, and that line of communication
was always open even when it was really hard, and
even when it I did feel that shame. So I'm
glad you said all of that. But also the tip
about the cell phone. I cannot imagine the experiences that
teens are having with cell phones. Now, you know this
is coming from somebody who I have an entire job
(37:26):
based around social media. I see everything, I know what's
happening on those platforms, and I know, as a fully grown,
healthy adult, there are days I want to throw my
phone in an ocean and run away from everything. And
I have that capability because I'm an adult, because I
am in my own life and I can see things
for what they are. But as a teenager, having the
(37:46):
access to the things that I have access to and
the things that I see every day. I cannot imagine
what that has added onto them. This is like a
little bit off topic, but I do from your experience
in the educational field, what has that been like, that
transition of not only social media but cell phones. Everybody
has one, in how it's kind of played a role
in these experiences for kids.
Speaker 3 (38:07):
There's so much research out there and you can see
the trends are coming where schools are starting to pull back.
For the longest time, it was oh, let them have it,
It'll be okay, And now we're seeing the attention span I.
Speaker 1 (38:20):
Mean is gone.
Speaker 3 (38:22):
Yeah, students, who are I mean, I'm guilty of it.
I say that as if it's not me. I can't
tell you how many times I grab my phone and
touch it just to see if something new has come up, right,
I'd hate to see how many times really touched my screen.
Speaker 2 (38:34):
The notification high that you get yes, and.
Speaker 3 (38:37):
So our students are trying to navigate that. But they're
also supposed to be learning the quadratic equation. What would
they rather learn? I know what I'd rather learn, But
most people like, yeah, you're unique, and so I know.
So we have gotten to where we have students maybe
put their phones in pocket at the front of the
class and that way, they leave it there during class,
(38:57):
pick it up on their way out. But schools all
over are really starting to go back and they're seeing
how much it is affecting mental health, self esteem, attention span. Parents, please,
please don't let your kids think that it's their cell phone.
It's your cell phone that you're letting them use, and
(39:18):
you have control over it, and you should be all
up in it. I don't mean to give parenting advice,
but I will just from the sake of please. There
are so many apps out there, there's so much station
that can take place. Even just knowing that mom and
dad might look at what I have going on in
my phone can be enough to prevent some of those
(39:40):
those ugly things from outside the world coming inside your house.
Speaker 2 (39:43):
And it's hard because we are living in a space where,
you know, kids want their parents to be their best friend.
And I can't attest that my parents are my best
friends now. But when I was in high school and
I was a kid, no no, no, no, we got
in fights regularly because I knew that I was not
in control, you know, and I was fighting against that
(40:05):
and I'm better for that. Of course, you're in that
experience and you don't feel that way again. Everything that's
happening then is everything is against you. The world is
against you, and there's nothing outside of that bubble. But
it is important, and I can attest to what you're saying,
but not just that. You are also a mom too.
You're not just a teacher, an educator, a counselor, you're
(40:26):
also a mom. You're having these experiences in real time.
Speaker 1 (40:29):
My kids get a lot of early lectures. I think so.
Speaker 3 (40:34):
My sixth grader does not have a cell phone. He's
probably one of the only ones. I just recently gave
him a watch that he can text, I think for
people and call me. And that's it, because I get it.
You want to be able to reach your kids. But
there's just a whole world out there, and it's not
all safe and it's not all pretty. And the second
(40:54):
you put that phone in a kid's hand and you
don't have any kind of parameters, locks, blocks, protection, you're
opening them up to all of the scariest things that
are out there. And if you think people aren't praying
on our young are vulnerable, our low self esteem, they
are they know what they're doing, and it happens not
(41:16):
just to kids but to adults.
Speaker 1 (41:18):
And we have to protect our kids.
Speaker 3 (41:20):
And that cell phone is like opening the door to
so many of the hurtful and hateful things that are
in this world. So just it's not the devil, but
I mean protect them from it anyway.
Speaker 2 (41:31):
Which is one of those things that less is more
as they're growing up, be involved. Yeah, that's really important.
It's also tough, I am sure as a mom, and
someone who does have a full time jump can attest
that you have eighty million plates you're juggling at any
given time, and having to also balance and control a
thing that's in their hands twenty four to seven is
(41:52):
also really hard. So there's grace in that too, but
it's also what's the balance at the end of the day,
what's the most important level here? That is that you
don't want them to experience these things? And I do
think too. Had I gone through we had phones, but
they were the flip phones and they weren't the smartphones.
We didn't have a lot of the social media MySpace maybe,
(42:14):
and gosh, even just people to their top eight friends
was dramatic and we hated people for that experience, you know,
like that was not well for us, and that was
just top eight friends. So I cannot imagine, especially seeing
the way that people talk to each other online. Have
you experienced a lot of things that have translated. Maybe
(42:35):
they started online and then they come into the school,
or they start in school and then they translate online.
Is that still happening.
Speaker 3 (42:41):
Yeah, it happens. And there aren't lines anymore. I mean
there's very little out there and in here right like
it's all one. So yeah, when that is happening online
and it's think about a girl who doesn't understand why
so and so said something bad about them? Or they're
not talking to me. That's what they're thinking about. That's
the thing that like, well, did I say something wrong?
(43:02):
Why are they mad at me? They're not able to
focus on other things. That's really hard for anybody to navigate,
but especially we're talking about teenagers and they've got all
these emotions and hormones and outside social factors. They're just
learning time management. It might be the first time in
their life they have real stress. Anxiety is huge. I
see so many students who struggle with anxiety right now.
(43:26):
I'd like to see the narrative on that change a
little bit. Some anxiety is actually very healthy. Anxiety in
and of itself is not necessarily bad. It's when it
becomes uncontrolled you aren't able to cope with it. But
if you have some anxiety because you have a test tomorrow,
that's okay, that's your brain telling you, hey, remember we
need to study for that. But when it becomes so
(43:47):
crippling that you miss three days of school in a
row because you're so nervous about going for whatever reason,
whether it's social or academic or whatever, you know, you
let your kids stay home because they're struggle. Well, now
they're just even more behind and it compounds and that
anxiety isn't getting any better, it's getting worse, and it
(44:07):
makes it more and more difficult to return. So I think,
as hard as it is, we have to get our
kids in school. That was a huge thing post COVID, right,
like a lot of people returning just back into everyday
life was difficult. We saw a lot of that in
students and trying to get back into school regularly. So
if you have a kiddo who's maybe struggling with that
high anxiety and avoiding school, call us, let us talk
(44:30):
with you. Let's make a plan and try to figure
out how to get them back here, so that we
can put some different supports in place and make it easier.
Because the only thing that happens when you continue to
miss and get further and further behind is that anxiety
to shoot that higher and higher.
Speaker 2 (44:45):
I like that you said too, that some of that
anxiety is good because we have in a great way,
we have learned so much, and we're so aware of
so many things that we do forget that there are
levels of that that are helpful to us as human beings.
Because when you say the word anxiety, it's oh, gosh,
you have that. I'm so sorry. That's a whole experience,
but it is still a natural human experience to have
(45:07):
an anxiety about a situation, and because it's also very
closely assimilated to excitement and life happening to you, because
you're getting all these nervousness around that anxiety. So I
really love that you mentioned those two kind of comparisons. Yeah, well,
is there anything else, missus manning you? Gosh, I am
just so glad that you came on and shared so
(45:30):
many things, not only just the experiences that we've had
mutually together. But you and I also have talked several
times about both of our desire to want to help kids,
me in the space of not having them experience the
things that I experienced and having tools to deal with that,
and you wanting to just help all the kids be
(45:52):
able to be kids and live in the school system
and feel safe. So is there any other topics or
things that like you want to talk about her? This
is your moment, you can you can share whatever you
want to say.
Speaker 3 (46:04):
Well, I think you know, we talked quite a bit
on a lot of topics, but when we touched on suicide,
and I know that that's a hot topic for a
lot of people. I just want to make sure everybody
knows about nine eight eight. Okay, So that is your
that's your hotline for calling for mental health. You know,
nine to one one is emergency situation and nine eight
eight is your go to if you have somebody who's struggling,
(46:26):
if you're not sure you just need some additional resources,
that's an easy quick phone call and get some help.
So I want to make sure people are aware of that.
I want to thank you. This is right here in
my desk.
Speaker 1 (46:38):
Hold on, this.
Speaker 3 (46:41):
Beautiful lady right here has been such an amazing success story,
and I know you had to go through it to
get where you are today, and it was painful, and
it was it was ugly, and it was hard. But
there are few things that make me happier than seeing
(47:02):
how successful you are and just being kind of that
model that shows us, yes, there's more to life outside
high school. I can overcome this, I can do hard things.
You've got this thick skin, and.
Speaker 1 (47:13):
Look where you are now. I'd be like, how cool
is this? And just we're all so proud of you.
We're so proud.
Speaker 2 (47:21):
I cannot you still have that on your desk. Also
the fact that you have my senior picture just sitting
on your desk.
Speaker 1 (47:26):
Still no, right here. Absolutely, yes, you.
Speaker 2 (47:30):
Are too grand to say all that genuinely, but it
has I. As they say, I was forged in fire
and I am grateful for that now and I can
speak to those experiences now. I still wish nobody ever
has to experience them. Despite how it has made me
who I am, I still hope that not. I think
we can do better. I think we can be better,
(47:51):
and I think there's a world that these things don't
have to exist, and people can still be forged in
fire without having those experiences. And that's why I appreciate
people like you, not just as a human being, but
also as an educator, because you're in a field that's
directly impacting them from the ground up. And it's not
an easy job. You guys. You know, you get love
(48:12):
sometimes or once a year in teach your appreciation, but
you should get all the time what you guys do.
And in that system, I have two sisters who are
in the educational field, and what you guys do matters,
and how you guys interact on a day to day
basis with people, You were changing lives and you changed
mine in so many more ways that I know, not
(48:32):
even you recalling things. I know that I even warned
you ahead of the thing I said, I'm probably going
to forget a lot of things. There's probably stuff that
I blocked out. But there's one thing that I do
know and I'm so certain of, is that you were
always a safe space for me and you were someone
that I still to this day cannot speak highly enough of.
So what you do matters, what you continue to do matters,
(48:52):
and how you've taken that and run with that is
an incredible thing for me to see an experience, and
I'm just glad I exist at the same time as
you do.
Speaker 3 (49:01):
I cannot thank you enough for your kind words. It
is a it's a battlefield some days, but it is
so worth it, and having moments like this is just
so affirming and reminds us why we get up and
come to work every day, because you never know when
you're going to have an opportunity to make a big difference.
So I'm just so proud of you, and I'm so
grateful that you let me come on and chat with
(49:22):
you a little bit.
Speaker 2 (49:23):
Thank you. I appreciate it so much. You're the best.
I want to think any of you who made it
to the end of the episode and you're hearing this
right now for listening to the episode, supporting this podcast,
because you're allowing me to have conversations like these that
I feel are so important and they really matter in
the world right now. And I hope you really liked
this episode and we're able to take something from it.
(49:45):
And I want to give a shout out to all
the educators out there again, because what you do matters
and the impact you're bringing to the world is so
important and I appreciate you and I see you. Please
remember to rate, review, and subscribe to the podcast if
you've been enjoying this and you're liking all the episodes,
and follow the Instagram at Take This Personally. Also, you
(50:06):
can watch episodes on my YouTube page at web GROLM Morgan.
And you can also email me Take This Personally Podcast
at gmail dot com if you want advice or there's
a particular topic you want me to address. That is
all for me right now. I will talk to you
guys next week.
Duel Space.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Well, hello, everybody, Welcome to another episode. I will be
making things personal this week, as I typically do within
most of the episodes, but this one is very personal.
If you've been listening from the beginning. In episode one,
I broke down some of the pivotal moments in my life,
one of them being that I got bullied really bad
in high school and I haven't really talked about the
(00:38):
details of it.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
Now.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Why this episode this week is so special is because
I am bringing on one of my high school teachers
who was a safe space for me when I was
going through this really, really horrible time. Her name is
missus Manning, and I've stayed in touch with her over
the years, and we've always wanted to do something to
help students never have to deal with something that I
dealt with, or if they do, at the very least
(01:01):
have the tools to do it. And I knew when
I created this podcast that I wanted her to be
one of the episodes. Now, in the interview, you're going
to hear me reference some of the things that happened
to me in high school and explain them a little bit.
But before we get into it, I wanted to give
you a little bit deeper knowledge of the story, so
you maybe feel a little bit more included as the
story is being told with missus Manning. So, I had
(01:22):
been on the cheerleading squad for my entire high school career.
I joined when I was a freshman. I did junior varsity,
and then I went on to be varsity. And I
had been friends with a group of girls for many years,
and we were all on the cheerleading team together, and
we had done cheer camps and all kinds of things.
We were all such great friends that we had multiple sleepovers.
I have photo albums upon photo albums of all of
(01:43):
the times and things we had done together. Well, it
was as if overnight they decided they no longer wanted
to be friends with me, which would have been fine,
but you know, girls in high school don't really know
how to handle things properly. So it wasn't handled as Okay,
we just don't want to be friends with her, and
we're going to gradually distance. Instead it was we're gonna
(02:03):
spread rumors and make her feel horrible about herself and
make her hate her life. So these girls who I
once trusted told all my secrets to who I believed
were great friends for life, all of a sudden became
my enemies, for lack of a better way to put it.
And when they decided that, that's when all the rumors
began and all the horrible things that they wanted to
say about me started. Around the school, I heard so
(02:25):
many different things about my life that were never true,
and I was made to believe that I was bad
and I was this horrible person and I didn't deserve
to have any friends. These were just some of the
things that started this whole wildfire of a horrible senior
year for me. Now, I was a flyer on our
cheerleading squad, and for anybody who's familiar with cheerleading or not,
(02:48):
that's the one that goes up in the air and
they are trusting the bases with their life. Anything that happens.
Anytime you see a fall, it is the basis and
flyer combined. And while I was up in the air
one day, I overheard my bullies aka previous friends say
I hope she falls on her face and dies. And
that particular phrase has been teared into my brain. I
(03:09):
couldn't forget it if I want to. Now, there are
many things I have tried to forget after I healed
from this whole situation that happened, But that particular phrase
has never ever left my brain, and I don't think
ever will. I'm not gonna sit here in detail every
single moment that happened, with the things that they said
about me or what happened. But this is just to
(03:30):
give some context into the situation that I was dealing with.
And on top of that, there was a new cheer
coach and she had a daughter that was joining the
team as a freshman, and for whatever reason, I became
the target. She wanted her daughter in my place, even
though it was my senior year. She wanted her daughter
on the varsity cheer squad in the flying position, and
(03:51):
I became the one that she was going to take
down to make that happen. So naturally, when you have
a group of girls and then an older woman who's
in a position of past all choose the same person
to go after. It was your perfect storm of a
literal tornado. And I use that kind of as a
pun because it was in Kansas. Now, this is where
(04:12):
I'm going to inter Missus Manning, who was one of
my teachers at the time, and she became my safe
space because as rumors were being spread about me, and
horrible things were being talked behind my back, and these
girls in this group of people were trying to turn
everyone that I used to know or believed as a
friend against me. I started to hide out in Missus
(04:32):
Manning's classroom for multiple periods of the day, and she
was the only place that really made me feel safe
at school. So that's a little peak into the story.
Now there's details, twist, turns and curves that I am
not including here, but it's a baseline to give you
context of why Missus Manning played such an important role
in my life and why I'm bringing her on to
(04:53):
not only speak to my situation, but also to help
parents of kids who have been bullied, or to help
people who've experienced this particular type of situation as they
were growing up or in different situations as they've gotten older.
And I would like to add that while this particular
part of my story is heartbreaking and something no one
(05:15):
should ever have to go through, I do acknowledge that
this is the reason why the second half of my
senior year I finished my high school education from home
and would go on to spend some of my extra
time in turning at a news station and a radio station,
and I would get college credits, and then I would
go on to graduate in three years from college and
(05:38):
end up on the Bobby Bone Show because of that timeline.
So there was a reason this all happened, although it
never should have and I never wish it for anyone.
I can look at my story now and realize what
a special position the universe put me in to be
able to be where I am today. And I do
want to put a trigger warning here just in case
(06:00):
we are going to talk about suicide later in the interview,
and I want anybody who that may be triggering to
to have a heads up that it's coming. And if
you're uncomfortable with that particular topic, maybe this isn't the
best interview to listen to, although I do implore anybody
else that even if the topic makes you uncomfortable, I
think it's a very important one that a lot of
(06:21):
people will need to hear. This is a really special
episode for me and one that has been an idea
(06:43):
of mine for so many years.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
Now.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
I am joined by Missus Manning, who was one of
my high school teachers, and as I like to say,
my angel in high school that really helped save my
life in a lot of ways. How are you, Missus Manning.
Speaker 3 (07:00):
I'm doing fabulous. I am so happy to get to
sit here and chat with you today. And you are
too kind. I just happened to be somebody who was
able to be in the right place at the right time.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
So I'm glad that you think of me that way.
But you might be a.
Speaker 2 (07:13):
Little too generous, no, I am not. I often connect
you to Have you seen the movie Matilda? Of course
you were Matilda's teacher for me. You were that person
in my life when I was going through high school.
Speaker 1 (07:26):
And Missus Honey, I love that.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
Yes, you know it is, and you are very special
in that way, not just because you were an incredible
human being, but Missus Manning was a safe space for
me when I was going through a really horrible bullying
situation in high school. These were girls who I had,
once upon a time thought were my friends and that
quickly changed and I didn't like being at school. It
(07:51):
was a really dark time for me. So we're going
to pull on some past memories here though, Missus Manny.
We're going to see if you recall things and kind
of similar way for me, but from your experience as
a teacher, and we're going to kind of walk this
back a little bit. At this time, you were a
math teacher, which was ironic because it was my most
horrible subject. And I still didn't stay I'm not good
at math.
Speaker 1 (08:10):
Stop that, stop that I want to go. Can you
still remember the distance formula song?
Speaker 2 (08:16):
No?
Speaker 1 (08:17):
Okay, now my heart's broken.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
And it was never a reflection of you as a teacher.
I just was never good at math. And you know this.
You know this because not only did I spend a
lot of time post all of this happening, but free
I was. And they're getting tutored often because it was
so bad at math.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
You have to quit this.
Speaker 3 (08:33):
You had straight a's in every class you ever took, ever,
like truly a real straight a all four years of
high school. So you may not have liked it, but
you were definitely better than you think.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
Okay, well, I'll try and start changing my narrative on that.
But it was rough for me. But from your experience
at this time, and we'll get to like the career
change that happened later. But when you were a math
teacher and you had your student who you know was
going through something and became this like safe haven classroom
for you. What was that experience like for you?
Speaker 3 (09:04):
You know, being in the classroom is so unique because
you've got twenty five different stories that are sitting right
there in front of you, and if you take the
time to really get to know each one of them, like,
what a privilege to get to be a part of
that small piece of that story and hopefully get to
be a bright spot in somebody's day. You, girlfriend, you
(09:25):
had a lot going on and a lot of people
may not see that on the outside. You obviously are
beautiful and always have been, but you had these leadership positions,
and you were involved, and you were athletic, and.
Speaker 1 (09:39):
You were smart.
Speaker 3 (09:40):
But all of those things are great, they don't necessarily
shield us or protect us.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
From some of the ugliness that's in the world.
Speaker 3 (09:46):
And so if you take the time to see what's
really going on underneath the surface, it's pretty special. If
you can try to do something to help make that
a better experience for somebody.
Speaker 2 (09:55):
Yeah, and you not only were this safe way in
the school when the bullying situation was happening for me,
there was often being rumors spread about me on multiple levels,
and the reason I would often find a safe haven
in your classroom it was because I didn't want to
be around people as the classes were changing and getting
looked at as a kid who's sixteen, seventeen years old.
(10:20):
I didn't want to be around three hundred people who
seemed to think that there was all these horrible things
happening in my life and none of them were true,
but I couldn't do anything about it. And so being
able to come to your classroom just between pretty much
every I guess I don't know what they're called anymore,
but every single break in between classes, I was just
like running. I would even be across the other entire
(10:41):
end of the school and come there for a few
minutes and then run back to the other side because
it was just that safe place for me. How did
you manage that where you're like, do I need to
do something about this or do I just need to
let her keep doing this? Until because I don't know
that you knew a lot of the stuff that was
happening until it kind of progressed further. What was that
for you where you were like, how do I navigate
(11:03):
this situation and still make her feel safe.
Speaker 3 (11:05):
You're right, I kind of came into it late, so
I don't know if you remember, but shocker to the
people who know me, I don't have a lot of
background and cheerleading. It was absolutely not my wheelhouse. But
I kind of got to step in and kind of
help finish out a season, and that is one of
the ways I got to learn a little bit more
about what was going on kind of with.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
You and just wow, just wow.
Speaker 3 (11:30):
Truly, I can attribute that one experience to why I
went back to school and I decided to get a
degree in counseling instead of administration because I looked at
what was happening within this group of girls and the
power struggle and the bullying that's not what a lot
of people think of as bullying, but that true relational
(11:50):
aggression that happened, and I went, I'm not prepared to
deal with this. I need to if there's somewhere I
can make a difference in how to do better by
my students, this is something I need to learn learn
more about. So, yeah, coaching cheer for me was a
real catalyst that shot me into this new career path
and I'm grateful that I was there, and I'm glad
that I could help you.
Speaker 1 (12:11):
I would never do it again.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
No chance to give you guys some more context. So
the bullying that happened in my situation with some girls
that I was friends with and we had all cheered together.
This was my senior year of high school, so people
I had gone through my entire high school career with,
and I thought we were all friends, and then it
was kind of like I woke up one day and
they said horrible things about them. One that still is
(12:36):
very ingrained into my brain is the I hope she
falls on her face and dies. And as a cheerleader
who was a flyer and had to trust the people
below me with my life and I'm seventeen, hormonal girl,
that's the last thing you want to hear. And that
was just the beginning. Then it spun and spiraled then
(12:58):
multiple different directions. But then miss missus Manning came in
as one of our coaches because one of the coaches
was involved in things that were happening to me, because
she had somebody on our team that she felt was
better suited for my role, and it became kind of
this whole nightmare of a scenario with adults and other
(13:19):
kids involved. And that's when missus Manning came in, took
the coaching role, and she was like, what am I doing?
What is happening here? And you got thrown into a
fire not only of a sport that you were unfamiliar with,
but of a whole situation that was never handled, And
there wasn't a lot of talk. There wasn't a lot
of like, do better with your mental health and understand
your feelings and talk to people or talk to somebody.
(13:42):
None of that was the case. So not only did
you get thrown in in multiple levels, but you also
got thrown into a situation that was ill equipped to
handle any type of situation like that.
Speaker 1 (13:53):
Well and complicate matters even further. The cyberbullying was all
pretty fresh. I mean, it was new.
Speaker 3 (14:00):
We haven't had a lot of experience with it at
the time, and so even Kansas law at the time
was fairly unclear about what you could do as far
as consequences within the school day. Nobody doubted that some
things were happening. It was just a matter of are
these things that the school can actually act on? And
I'm grateful to say that Kansa's law has come around,
(14:20):
and you've got a little more leeway there where if
those types of things are affecting the school day and
preventing students from being able to access their education, administration
has more power to step in and a responsibility even
to intervene, Whereas before it was really predicated on well
did this happen outside of the school day? What's the timestamp?
(14:40):
Well did it happen at school? Was it on the
school you know device or school computer? And it was
just so frustrating because, let's be honest, bullies know what
they're doing, Okay, they are smart, they are intentional about it.
That power struggle, especially among girls, that relational aggression that
I mentioned earlier. It can look so many different ways,
(15:01):
but it is all intentional and it is covert, so
you really have to be looking to see it if
you're somebody on the outside. And that was kind of
my goal, I guess at all of this, was just
to have eyes wide open and try to take in
everything and see everything and try to make that a
little bit safer space for everybody.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
And you did, and that's why I felt so much
comfort in being able to just spend time in your
classroom as a lot of this was happening, and to
your point of there are people who are experiencing bullies,
and gosh, I wish there was a right way to
handle any of it. It's all so based on a
situation and how many factors are involved. There was a
(15:45):
particular thing that I definitely do not suggest for any
school administration, teacher or anything that was listening. And I
cannot remember if you had gotten involved. At this point.
They had put me in the girl who had been
saying most of the bad things about me and these
topics of conversation in the same room and said you
guys should talk about this, and our entire group or
(16:10):
a squad I guess you could say, was also in
that room, so it wasn't just her and I, it
was everybody in a room, and said you guys should
should sort this out. And I remember looking around the
eyes and I just said, why do you keep saying
these things about me? Because I didn't know what else
to say. You're sitting here telling me to talk to
the person who's, basically, in my eyes at that point,
ruined my life, and say what did I do to
deserve this? Which nobody should ever have to do. And
(16:32):
she just looked at me and just said, I don't
like you. There was no reason, there was no this happened,
and this is why I feel this way, and we
can work on this. There was nothing I could have
done to change anything. It was just I don't like you.
Speaker 1 (16:45):
Yeah, I don't think I was involved at that point.
I'm curious. Was there an adult in the room?
Speaker 2 (16:49):
Yeah, I believe so. It was one of our higher
administration at that point.
Speaker 1 (16:53):
Interesting, okay, yeah, and I don't.
Speaker 2 (16:55):
Like I said. I don't think you had gotten there
yet at that point. But that is when a lot
of bad things happen after that, because when you put
somebody who's been in a victim position and then the
bully in the same position, and all you're doing is
making that victim feel more vulnerable, what do you think
is the outcome? You know, it's just gonna be worse.
There's gonna be more horrible things to happen. So while
I can sit here and say I don't know the
(17:15):
right way to handle it, which is why I brought
on an expert of someone who is now a counselor,
and that's why I want to shift that geared to that,
but I can say that is definitely not the right
way to ever approach a situation with a bully and
somebody who's been bullied. So all that to say.
Speaker 3 (17:33):
Well, I'm really sorry to hear that that happened the
way it did. I think that schools have come a
long way, society has come a long ways. I mean,
we can talk about mental health now and it is
not a happy subject like it used to be. Sure,
there are a lot of families who still kind of
have that ingrained that you keep these things to yourself,
you bottle it out and keep it within the family.
Speaker 1 (17:54):
But as a whole we're.
Speaker 3 (17:56):
Able to access mental health supports different ways. I think
you'd be happy to know. Here at the high school
now we even have therapists that are in the building
who can meet with students, So we're not just making
referrals out. We're actually bringing those services in and trying
hard to make some of those barriers that people have
in the way of accessing mental health services be eliminated
(18:19):
so that we can help more students. I do think, though,
we have to look at the root cause of why
a lot of people start to act this way. You
go from being friends one day to enemies the next,
And I feel like, I mean, you call me an expert.
I don't know that I am, but just in what
that I've seen over the past fifteen plus years, typically
people are mean when they're insecure. There's something within themselves
(18:41):
that they are insecure about, and they don't know how
to see their self value or their self worth, and
so they try to raise themselves higher by putting other
people down. And so we as a school system work
on SEL lessons starting in kindergarten and we're implementing those
every single grade all the way through high school. We
(19:02):
have to teach people about empathy. We have to change
the narrative that just because some specifically with girls, just
because someone else is successful or beautiful or intelligent, that
doesn't take away from my worth. Let's all celebrate each
other and continue to build each other up. But that's
a narrative that we have to keep working on. So
(19:23):
I do think that goal systems have a huge.
Speaker 1 (19:26):
Role in this, and we're trying. We're working hard. Are
we there yet?
Speaker 2 (19:29):
No?
Speaker 3 (19:29):
But again, I think when you're insecure, it can come
out as ugliness, whether it's to yourself or specifically to others.
So one of the things we have to do is
we have to start targeting, especially the people who are
maybe being the tormentors, and try to help them evaluate
where does their self worth and their self value come from?
Speaker 1 (19:47):
Not there, we have to build that.
Speaker 2 (19:49):
I love to hear that so many of these things
are being implemented now, and I'm not surprised either, because
to your point, we have grown so much as a
society and understanding that we can't just keep pushing these
things under the rug and moving past them. They have
to be addressed. So explain to me a little bit more.
You said, there's a program that you guys have in
place from kindergarten to high school. What is that?
Speaker 3 (20:10):
So we have sel social emotional lessons each level. So
our elementary school they break it down by grade level.
It's actually a class that the students have, counselors come.
Speaker 1 (20:20):
In and teach.
Speaker 3 (20:21):
We get informations at home in their backpacks, so I,
as a parent get to know that this week my
kids worked on forgiveness or they got to work on
grit and what does it look like to have grit
and to be resilient empathy specifically, So you know, these
keep circling back all the way through until high school.
And then in high school, you know, we have what
(20:42):
used to be your encore time. We call it flex
now kind of a study hall, and we've got sel
lessons that we do on Wednesdays during that time. So
we're just little reminders that you know, you may learn
it once or twice, but it's always a good idea
to be reminded of simple things like the golden rule.
You know, do you really want to treat other people
like that?
Speaker 1 (21:01):
What if it was you? And sometimes it sticks and
sometimes we just keep reteaching it.
Speaker 2 (21:06):
Also, having that as a lesson is really cool. You know,
we never had anything like that when I was going
through It was you just figured it out through life
and you got your feet thrown to the fire and
said figure it out and you learned by way of
other people, which I think we still have to do.
That's always going to be a thing no matter what.
But to have understandings of it because assuming that everybody
(21:27):
has the same experiences in their home and having those
lessons is not true unfortunately, you know, we wish it were,
but that's not the case. So being able to learn
that in a school that is a safe environment for that.
That's really awesome to hear, like as someone who did
go through what I went through, that it is starting
really young, and we're trying and we're doing different things
(21:49):
to help that process just emotionally, help people be better
humans and have more role models in their life.
Speaker 3 (21:56):
Well, the other thing that if I was going to
if you don't mind me, kind of going on a
tangent here, what I want to tell parents I think
we mentioned earlier. If your student or your kiddo is
going through bullying, please please please communicate with the school,
talk to us, let us know. Don't let your kids
suffer in silent. We have to know what's going on,
make a report. Bullying is usually persistent, consistent, it's targeted,
(22:19):
you know, severe, and so a lot of times it
does take we have to document. We can't just say
this one time Sally was mean, that's not necessarily bullying.
But once we have that documentation, that doesn't mean we
can't intervene at the very first time and say, hey,
how can we help Sally and make this be a
better situation. We can have eyes wide open and looking again.
(22:41):
Because sometimes bullying is not obvious and we have to
really be tuned in and watch to catch some of
those little things. Girls especially, they're tricky with the gossiping
and the rumors, the silent treatment. The big one for
middle school and high school girls I see is that
social exclusion where they're going to leave somebody out. Maybe
the group message goes to everybody except for that one person,
(23:04):
and that's hard. It's hard to see those things if
you're not paying attention and looking for it. So please
report to your school and let us know, give us
a chance to work. Trust the system, because I promise
there are people in the buildings who want to keep
your kids safe and happy, and we want them to
want to be here. There's more that we can be doing.
We need to be able to do everything we can
(23:25):
for your kiddo.
Speaker 2 (23:25):
I'm glad you said that because I do have a
lot of parents E listen, and I know that they
have a lot of their kids listen, and these messages
get ingrained and then hopefully passed down as people have
their own kids. The generations continue. There's something that reminded
me as you were saying this that if there are
any parents who are listening, I think the biggest message
that I often took away as I look back on
(23:48):
my high school time was that there is this huge,
huge life and world out there, and the bubble that
you're in in high school is not everything. It feels
like everything feels like anything that happens there. I cannot
tell you how many people in my life who've been
like I've been there. I felt high school like everything
was going to be over, and you feel like the
(24:09):
world is ending when things are happening there. But not
everybody finds their people in high school. Not everybody experiences
their high school sweetheart in high school. Not everybody goes
through these experiences, and if you're seeing them, there is
just this entirely huge world that has so many more
experiences waiting for you. And I so wish if there
(24:30):
is a message that I could communicate to students, it's
that because it takes the power away from what's happening
in high school to be this detrimental, world ending feeling.
Speaker 3 (24:41):
And I never felt that it's so hard because that
is your world, right. So when you graduate and go
to college, or when you finish college and you're on
your own, you get to have so much more choice
of who you spend time around. In high school, your
schedule is pre built for you. You've got this first
block class with these people and there's not really a.
Speaker 1 (25:01):
Way around it.
Speaker 3 (25:02):
So you've got kind of more walls and boundaries around
you that you have to figure out how to make
it work. But once you have the choice of who
you spend your time with, choose people wisely. Be around
those who build you up and energize you, not the
people who drain you. And that doesn't mean you can't
be friends with someone or love them. I mean, let's
be honest, there are people whose family members they have
(25:25):
to love at a distance. It doesn't mean they don't
love them, but maybe they need a little more space, right.
And I think that when it comes to friends, we
have to always focus more on quality over quantity. I
don't care how many friends you have. Really, all anybody
needs is one. You need one solid go to. I've
always got your back. You can tell me anything, your
(25:46):
secrets save with me. You need that friend. Just one
can save a life.
Speaker 2 (25:50):
It's tough with high school too, because we, as much
as we would love to say that the stereotypes aren't there,
they are there. Everybody wants to be loved everybody wants
to be popular. Everybody wants that power in high school.
It's the dream. You see it in movies, you see
it in TV shows. You want to be that person.
And I think there's something so beautiful as I look
back on it, and I just I wish that I
(26:12):
realized as a person going through those experiences that there
was so much more to life outside of that bubble
and understanding that even if you didn't have a bad experience,
maybe you had a great experience in high school and
then you went off and you did your own thing
and you made these incredible friends in your adult world.
Then you're like, oh, well I have my high school friends.
You can have both. It's just this understanding that is
(26:34):
just a season of your life in this world is
a season. It's not the whole story. It's not the
whole book that you're going to write. And I wish
that was a message that I understood better. I'm sure
I heard it, and I'm sure people tried to convince
me of that, But when you're in it, and when
you're in the thick of that and understanding and going
(26:54):
through that, there's no chance that you're going to see
it for what it is.
Speaker 1 (26:58):
You can't comprehend with you.
Speaker 2 (27:00):
I've been experienced yet there's beauty and history and there's
a lot of knowledge when you've experienced life. I do
call you an expert. I wanted to touch on a
little bit more. You shared a little bit at the beginning.
But this experience that you had with me transitioned you
to becoming a counselor. You went from math teacher to
a counselor. What has that been like for you and
are you glad that that transition ended up happening?
Speaker 3 (27:22):
YEA, so I love my job. I will be the
first one to tell you. I'm a huge nerd. Math
is my jam.
Speaker 1 (27:28):
Like I'll still write my budget with paper and pencil
just to get that little sensation of math, because I'm
just that person.
Speaker 3 (27:34):
I never had a chance. I come from a family
of educators. My dad's a math teacher, my sister is
the math teacher. So I'm just kind of one of
those sick people.
Speaker 2 (27:42):
But I love very intelligent, I think is the word
we're looking for.
Speaker 3 (27:47):
You had talked in a previous episode about which side
of the brain really works well for you.
Speaker 1 (27:52):
I've always been that analytical thinker, so I.
Speaker 3 (27:55):
Like rules, Switching over to counseling has been a very
rewarding experience. Not everybody had a similar experience to you,
but I've had a lot of students who shared with
me some really personal important things in their life, and
at the time as a teacher, I would do what
I could, kind of put a band aid on it
in the short term until I could get them down
(28:16):
to a counselor and then refer them over and kind
of hand them off to those experts and say, Okay,
here's what I've brought. You work your magic. And for me,
I wanted to know how the story ended. I needed
to know that they got the resources that they needed.
I needed to know that a report was filed if
it needed to be. You know, we do a little
bit that as a teacher, but I wanted to see
(28:39):
the family resolution come to pass.
Speaker 1 (28:41):
I just needed more.
Speaker 3 (28:43):
And so based on the experiences that I'd had with
students being willing to talk with me and share, I
felt like this was something I needed to pursue further.
So yes, my experience working I Joke with Cheer helped
me start that path.
Speaker 1 (28:57):
But really it was an absolute blessed and.
Speaker 3 (29:01):
Each day we get to start something fresh, and you know,
I might have a to do list of what I'd
like to get done in a day, but you never
know what's going to walk in your door. We do
a lot of things like provide breakfast or snacks.
Speaker 1 (29:13):
We do a lot of meeting basic needs.
Speaker 3 (29:16):
Even in the high school that we're in, I think
a lot of people view it as a very affluent school,
we still have all kinds of diversity.
Speaker 1 (29:23):
We still have students living in poverty.
Speaker 3 (29:26):
We have students whose basic needs are being met, So
we get to fill those gaps first. And once those
basic needs are met, then we have the ability to
dig a little deeper and you know, work on some
of maybe their emotional needs, and then.
Speaker 1 (29:41):
We get to the academics.
Speaker 3 (29:43):
Because you have to have those basic needs met. You
have to be in a ready to learn state before
the education piece can really sink in and stick.
Speaker 1 (29:52):
So it's a privilege to be a school counselor you're so.
Speaker 2 (29:55):
Good at it, you were born to be in the
educational field, There's no doubt about I'm very well aware
of that. I think anybody who's ever been in your presence,
worked with you can attest to that, and as someone
who was one of your students, I absolutely can. So
you can see it just in you talking about it.
Speaker 1 (30:12):
Well, thank you. I appreciate that when.
Speaker 2 (30:14):
You mentioned too, how you never know what's going to
walk in, something that I am a huge advocate for
because in my experiences of this time in high school,
for me, I was severely depressed and unfortunately had a
lot of thoughts of suicide. This was my first experience
with having a therapist, which unfortunately also for me, was
(30:36):
not the best therapy experience because again, there wasn't a
whole prolethora of therapists back then. Now you have so
many options and people to fit specific needs. This was
more like there was five and this seemed to be
the best, and nobody knew. We were just kinda she
needs help, what do we do? And that was something
that was very present in my life and continued throughout
(30:57):
the course of my life. But I I want to
talk about this because this is a topic that people
do not like to talk about. It is scary, it
is uncomfortable. The idea that people have thoughts of suicide
is turn it off. I don't want to hear about this.
But as a counselor, I imagine that this is a
topic for you, and it's experienced in schools often, and
(31:18):
I want to be able to help parents help their
kids if they are experiencing this, So as a counselor
maybe you can provide some further insight into that.
Speaker 3 (31:28):
Yes, we hope that in all situations the students really
comfortable in talking to their family and their parents. But
the truth is, oftentimes students feel their responsibility to kind
of shield their parents from the pain that they're feeling
because they're worried it's going to upset their parents. So
having somebody in the building that they can talk to,
whether it's a teacher, a coach, a counselor having somebody
(31:50):
that they feel safe with and is willing to have
these direct conversations with is so important. And then we
can help the students facilitate that conversation with parents, or
if the student doesn't feel like they can do it,
we can call and do it for them. But I
guess what I would tell people is don't be afraid
to use the word suicide. I think a lot of people,
like you said, are afraid of it the word itself
(32:11):
and asking the question are you feeling suicidal is not
going to plant any kind of an idea in somebody's
head if it wasn't already there. What you're doing is
you're saying, I am willing to ask a very difficult question,
and I will hold space for you no matter what
the answer is to that. So don't be afraid of
the word, ask the question. And then from there, we're
(32:33):
trained teachers and counselors alike anybody within the building to
go through and have a series of questions to decide
whether or not this is something, you know, we need
to act on immediately, or is it something that we
can process a little bit more. We do get parents
involved and make sure that they're comfortable with us having
these conversations, but we question and then we persuade that
(32:57):
person to get some help, whatever that looks like, whether
it's from an outside therapist, whether it's to go immediately
to your community crisis center where they have twenty four
to seven help available, to do an evaluation and potentially
find placement and make those referrals as needed to go
a little bit further. You know, if somebody were to
say yes and we want to decide severity, that's where
(33:19):
people who are very trained will start asking questions that
are maybe more like, do you have a plan? How
often do you think about this? If you do have
a plan, do you have access to what it is
that you would utilize? But first things first, parents, if
you're worried about this, you need to take action and
get help right away. And then don't think just because
(33:42):
you've got help and the next morning we wake up
and everybody seems fine that it's over. It's going to
be an ongoing process. So take precautions within your home.
Lock up your pills, make sure guns are put away,
locked away.
Speaker 2 (33:55):
If you have.
Speaker 3 (33:55):
Anybody in your family who's self harmed, you might have
to go a step further and put away some of
the show objects. But there are steps that we take
as schools and as parents to just make the people
around us know we care about them and to keep
them safe.
Speaker 1 (34:09):
Sorry, that was a lot, wasn't it.
Speaker 2 (34:10):
No, no, no, no, no no. It was important, is what
it was. And I wanted to give the space for
that to be important because it is a hard topic,
but it's one that I just I don't think people
realize how prevalent it is amongst so many people. And
I also want you if you feel comfortable to share.
(34:31):
For me, when I was experiencing that I had so
much shame associated with it, I was really disappointed in
myself that I felt that way, that I had these
experiences and I couldn't just get it together and be okay.
What are some things that maybe you would tell parents
if their kid is experiencing this, how they can support
their kids to not feel that shame, Because I think
(34:52):
the reason why it's so difficult to talk about is
because you feel horrible that you feel this way on
top of already feeling what you feel. Maybe if they're
tools for parents to open that door a little bit further,
that maybe it doesn't feel so heavy.
Speaker 3 (35:06):
So a couple of things that I would recommend. It's
not easy and your team won't love it, but get
them away from their cell phone for a while. There
are a lot of great tools that are available, and
I know the world has changed, but the amount of
issues that I see stem from having a cell phone
in their hand twenty four to seven all the time
(35:27):
is so overwhelming. The constant information, the constant notifications, the
inability to just be present and in the moment, the
fomo right, there's so much that's tied to that. If
we can just distance, put it away, don't let them
have it in their room at night, have them charge
their phones upstairs away from their bedroom, and just let
(35:48):
that become a pattern. Give them some distance and some
freedom from that cell phone. They may not see it
as freedom, but it is exercise and it doesn't have
to be intense. So for a walk with your kid
and just talk with them. Make that a habit if
you can, be preemptive. So if you're listening to this
and thinking, oh, I'm so grateful my child doesn't have
(36:09):
this going on, be proactive and keep those lines of
communication open. Build those healthy habits now that can help
prevent getting to this point then. And I think you
just over communicate. If there's such a thing to your
child that you love them no matter what, there's nothing
ever that they could say or do that would stop
that love, and that they can tell you anything. That
(36:31):
doesn't mean that there won't be consequences for your action,
but it just ensures that unconditional love and positive regard
that I'm going to help you through anything, and there's
nothing that we can't get through together.
Speaker 2 (36:42):
Those are really good pieces of advice and very thankful
that I had parents who were that for me. That's why, truthfully,
I made it through. A lot of what I made
it through was not only the support system that I
had in you and I had a few people who
rallied around me at school, but my family who just
allowed me to go through what I was going through
and were they were my biggest cheerleaders and being like,
(37:04):
we're here whatever you need, and that line of communication
was always open even when it was really hard, and
even when it I did feel that shame. So I'm
glad you said all of that. But also the tip
about the cell phone. I cannot imagine the experiences that
teens are having with cell phones. Now, you know this
is coming from somebody who I have an entire job
(37:26):
based around social media. I see everything, I know what's
happening on those platforms, and I know, as a fully grown,
healthy adult, there are days I want to throw my
phone in an ocean and run away from everything. And
I have that capability because I'm an adult, because I
am in my own life and I can see things
for what they are. But as a teenager, having the
(37:46):
access to the things that I have access to and
the things that I see every day. I cannot imagine
what that has added onto them. This is like a
little bit off topic, but I do from your experience
in the educational field, what has that been like, that
transition of not only social media but cell phones. Everybody
has one, in how it's kind of played a role
in these experiences for kids.
Speaker 3 (38:07):
There's so much research out there and you can see
the trends are coming where schools are starting to pull back.
For the longest time, it was oh, let them have it,
It'll be okay, And now we're seeing the attention span I.
Speaker 1 (38:20):
Mean is gone.
Speaker 3 (38:22):
Yeah, students, who are I mean, I'm guilty of it.
I say that as if it's not me. I can't
tell you how many times I grab my phone and
touch it just to see if something new has come up, right,
I'd hate to see how many times really touched my screen.
Speaker 2 (38:34):
The notification high that you get yes, and.
Speaker 3 (38:37):
So our students are trying to navigate that. But they're
also supposed to be learning the quadratic equation. What would
they rather learn? I know what I'd rather learn, But
most people like, yeah, you're unique, and so I know.
So we have gotten to where we have students maybe
put their phones in pocket at the front of the
class and that way, they leave it there during class,
(38:57):
pick it up on their way out. But schools all
over are really starting to go back and they're seeing
how much it is affecting mental health, self esteem, attention span. Parents, please,
please don't let your kids think that it's their cell phone.
It's your cell phone that you're letting them use, and
(39:18):
you have control over it, and you should be all
up in it. I don't mean to give parenting advice,
but I will just from the sake of please. There
are so many apps out there, there's so much station
that can take place. Even just knowing that mom and
dad might look at what I have going on in
my phone can be enough to prevent some of those
(39:40):
those ugly things from outside the world coming inside your house.
Speaker 2 (39:43):
And it's hard because we are living in a space where,
you know, kids want their parents to be their best friend.
And I can't attest that my parents are my best
friends now. But when I was in high school and
I was a kid, no no, no, no, we got
in fights regularly because I knew that I was not
in control, you know, and I was fighting against that
(40:05):
and I'm better for that. Of course, you're in that
experience and you don't feel that way again. Everything that's
happening then is everything is against you. The world is
against you, and there's nothing outside of that bubble. But
it is important, and I can attest to what you're saying,
but not just that. You are also a mom too.
You're not just a teacher, an educator, a counselor, you're
(40:26):
also a mom. You're having these experiences in real time.
Speaker 1 (40:29):
My kids get a lot of early lectures. I think so.
Speaker 3 (40:34):
My sixth grader does not have a cell phone. He's
probably one of the only ones. I just recently gave
him a watch that he can text, I think for
people and call me. And that's it, because I get it.
You want to be able to reach your kids. But
there's just a whole world out there, and it's not
all safe and it's not all pretty. And the second
(40:54):
you put that phone in a kid's hand and you
don't have any kind of parameters, locks, blocks, protection, you're
opening them up to all of the scariest things that
are out there. And if you think people aren't praying
on our young are vulnerable, our low self esteem, they
are they know what they're doing, and it happens not
(41:16):
just to kids but to adults.
Speaker 1 (41:18):
And we have to protect our kids.
Speaker 3 (41:20):
And that cell phone is like opening the door to
so many of the hurtful and hateful things that are
in this world. So just it's not the devil, but
I mean protect them from it anyway.
Speaker 2 (41:31):
Which is one of those things that less is more
as they're growing up, be involved. Yeah, that's really important.
It's also tough, I am sure as a mom, and
someone who does have a full time jump can attest
that you have eighty million plates you're juggling at any
given time, and having to also balance and control a
thing that's in their hands twenty four to seven is
(41:52):
also really hard. So there's grace in that too, but
it's also what's the balance at the end of the day,
what's the most important level here? That is that you
don't want them to experience these things? And I do
think too. Had I gone through we had phones, but
they were the flip phones and they weren't the smartphones.
We didn't have a lot of the social media MySpace maybe,
(42:14):
and gosh, even just people to their top eight friends
was dramatic and we hated people for that experience, you know,
like that was not well for us, and that was
just top eight friends. So I cannot imagine, especially seeing
the way that people talk to each other online. Have
you experienced a lot of things that have translated. Maybe
(42:35):
they started online and then they come into the school,
or they start in school and then they translate online.
Is that still happening.
Speaker 3 (42:41):
Yeah, it happens. And there aren't lines anymore. I mean
there's very little out there and in here right like
it's all one. So yeah, when that is happening online
and it's think about a girl who doesn't understand why
so and so said something bad about them? Or they're
not talking to me. That's what they're thinking about. That's
the thing that like, well, did I say something wrong?
(43:02):
Why are they mad at me? They're not able to
focus on other things. That's really hard for anybody to navigate,
but especially we're talking about teenagers and they've got all
these emotions and hormones and outside social factors. They're just
learning time management. It might be the first time in
their life they have real stress. Anxiety is huge. I
see so many students who struggle with anxiety right now.
(43:26):
I'd like to see the narrative on that change a
little bit. Some anxiety is actually very healthy. Anxiety in
and of itself is not necessarily bad. It's when it
becomes uncontrolled you aren't able to cope with it. But
if you have some anxiety because you have a test tomorrow,
that's okay, that's your brain telling you, hey, remember we
need to study for that. But when it becomes so
(43:47):
crippling that you miss three days of school in a
row because you're so nervous about going for whatever reason,
whether it's social or academic or whatever, you know, you
let your kids stay home because they're struggle. Well, now
they're just even more behind and it compounds and that
anxiety isn't getting any better, it's getting worse, and it
(44:07):
makes it more and more difficult to return. So I think,
as hard as it is, we have to get our
kids in school. That was a huge thing post COVID, right,
like a lot of people returning just back into everyday
life was difficult. We saw a lot of that in
students and trying to get back into school regularly. So
if you have a kiddo who's maybe struggling with that
high anxiety and avoiding school, call us, let us talk
(44:30):
with you. Let's make a plan and try to figure
out how to get them back here, so that we
can put some different supports in place and make it easier.
Because the only thing that happens when you continue to
miss and get further and further behind is that anxiety
to shoot that higher and higher.
Speaker 2 (44:45):
I like that you said too, that some of that
anxiety is good because we have in a great way,
we have learned so much, and we're so aware of
so many things that we do forget that there are
levels of that that are helpful to us as human beings.
Because when you say the word anxiety, it's oh, gosh,
you have that. I'm so sorry. That's a whole experience,
but it is still a natural human experience to have
(45:07):
an anxiety about a situation, and because it's also very
closely assimilated to excitement and life happening to you, because
you're getting all these nervousness around that anxiety. So I
really love that you mentioned those two kind of comparisons. Yeah, well,
is there anything else, missus manning you? Gosh, I am
just so glad that you came on and shared so
(45:30):
many things, not only just the experiences that we've had
mutually together. But you and I also have talked several
times about both of our desire to want to help kids,
me in the space of not having them experience the
things that I experienced and having tools to deal with that,
and you wanting to just help all the kids be
(45:52):
able to be kids and live in the school system
and feel safe. So is there any other topics or
things that like you want to talk about her? This
is your moment, you can you can share whatever you
want to say.
Speaker 3 (46:04):
Well, I think you know, we talked quite a bit
on a lot of topics, but when we touched on suicide,
and I know that that's a hot topic for a
lot of people. I just want to make sure everybody
knows about nine eight eight. Okay, So that is your
that's your hotline for calling for mental health. You know,
nine to one one is emergency situation and nine eight
eight is your go to if you have somebody who's struggling,
(46:26):
if you're not sure you just need some additional resources,
that's an easy quick phone call and get some help.
So I want to make sure people are aware of that.
I want to thank you. This is right here in
my desk.
Speaker 1 (46:38):
Hold on, this.
Speaker 3 (46:41):
Beautiful lady right here has been such an amazing success story,
and I know you had to go through it to
get where you are today, and it was painful, and
it was it was ugly, and it was hard. But
there are few things that make me happier than seeing
(47:02):
how successful you are and just being kind of that
model that shows us, yes, there's more to life outside
high school. I can overcome this, I can do hard things.
You've got this thick skin, and.
Speaker 1 (47:13):
Look where you are now. I'd be like, how cool
is this? And just we're all so proud of you.
We're so proud.
Speaker 2 (47:21):
I cannot you still have that on your desk. Also
the fact that you have my senior picture just sitting
on your desk.
Speaker 1 (47:26):
Still no, right here. Absolutely, yes, you.
Speaker 2 (47:30):
Are too grand to say all that genuinely, but it
has I. As they say, I was forged in fire
and I am grateful for that now and I can
speak to those experiences now. I still wish nobody ever
has to experience them. Despite how it has made me
who I am, I still hope that not. I think
we can do better. I think we can be better,
(47:51):
and I think there's a world that these things don't
have to exist, and people can still be forged in
fire without having those experiences. And that's why I appreciate
people like you, not just as a human being, but
also as an educator, because you're in a field that's
directly impacting them from the ground up. And it's not
an easy job. You guys. You know, you get love
(48:12):
sometimes or once a year in teach your appreciation, but
you should get all the time what you guys do.
And in that system, I have two sisters who are
in the educational field, and what you guys do matters,
and how you guys interact on a day to day
basis with people, You were changing lives and you changed
mine in so many more ways that I know, not
(48:32):
even you recalling things. I know that I even warned
you ahead of the thing I said, I'm probably going
to forget a lot of things. There's probably stuff that
I blocked out. But there's one thing that I do
know and I'm so certain of, is that you were
always a safe space for me and you were someone
that I still to this day cannot speak highly enough of.
So what you do matters, what you continue to do matters,
(48:52):
and how you've taken that and run with that is
an incredible thing for me to see an experience, and
I'm just glad I exist at the same time as
you do.
Speaker 3 (49:01):
I cannot thank you enough for your kind words. It
is a it's a battlefield some days, but it is
so worth it, and having moments like this is just
so affirming and reminds us why we get up and
come to work every day, because you never know when
you're going to have an opportunity to make a big difference.
So I'm just so proud of you, and I'm so
grateful that you let me come on and chat with
(49:22):
you a little bit.
Speaker 2 (49:23):
Thank you. I appreciate it so much. You're the best.
I want to think any of you who made it
to the end of the episode and you're hearing this
right now for listening to the episode, supporting this podcast,
because you're allowing me to have conversations like these that
I feel are so important and they really matter in
the world right now. And I hope you really liked
this episode and we're able to take something from it.
(49:45):
And I want to give a shout out to all
the educators out there again, because what you do matters
and the impact you're bringing to the world is so
important and I appreciate you and I see you. Please
remember to rate, review, and subscribe to the podcast if
you've been enjoying this and you're liking all the episodes,
and follow the Instagram at Take This Personally. Also, you
(50:06):
can watch episodes on my YouTube page at web GROLM Morgan.
And you can also email me Take This Personally Podcast
at gmail dot com if you want advice or there's
a particular topic you want me to address. That is
all for me right now. I will talk to you
guys next week.
Host
Morgan Huelsman
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