August 12, 2025 • 38 mins
In this energizing episode of Beyond Confidence, host Divya Parekh sits down with workplace well-being strategist Lindsay Barnett to explore a powerful truth: you don’t have to burn out to succeed. This conversation dives into how today’s leaders and teams can break free from outdated work models by embracing sustainable, flexible practices that support both people and performance.
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Beyond Confidence is broadcast live Tuesdays at 10AM ET on W4WN Radio - Women 4 Women Network (www.w4wn.com) part of Talk 4 Radio (www.talk4radio.com) on the Talk 4 Media Network (www.talk4media.com). Beyond Confidence TV Show is viewed on Talk 4 TV (www.talk4tv.com).
Beyond Confidence Podcast is also available on Talk 4 Media (www.talk4media.com), Talk 4 Podcasting (www.talk4podcasting.com), iHeartRadio, Amazon Music, Pandora, Spotify, Audible, and over 100 other podcast outlets.
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/beyond-confidence--1885197/support.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
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(00:20):
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Speaker 2 (00:25):
This is Beyond Confidence with your host dvpark. Do you
want to live a more fulfilling life? Do you want
to live your legacy and achieve your personal, professional, and
financial goals? Well? Coming up on ZVO Parks Beyond Confidence,
you will hear real stories of leaders, entrepreneurs, and achievers
who have stepped into discomfort, shattered their status quo, and
(00:45):
are living the life they want. You will learn how
relationships are the key to achieving your aspirations and financial goals.
Moving your career business forward does not have to happen
at the expense of your personal or family life or
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dvpark dot com. This is beyond Confidence and now here's
(01:08):
your host, w Park.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
Good morning listeners, It's Tuesday, and of course you know
I'd love to be here with you. So awesome to
be here and we are going to have some great
conversation today and just wanted to share. Yes, I've finished, finished,
finished my first draft on about the book on artificial
(01:34):
Intelligence and super excited about it now going through the
editing piece and of course that is never fun when
you go back and read your draft. So remember that
all of us go through those pain points and the
key is coming out of it, like you know, staying
(01:55):
with the discomfort, because the key that opens the door
of development goes through discomfort. So just excited to be
here with you, and let's bring in our guests. MELIKLM.
Speaker 4 (02:12):
Lindsay, Hi, Divia, thank you for having me.
Speaker 3 (02:17):
Oh, it's awesome to have you on this show. So Lindsey,
tell us if you're a call a moment from your
childhood youth where it was a remarkable positive moment where
a person or an incident something happened that left a
mark on you.
Speaker 4 (02:36):
Wow, there are so many issues from I'm very grateful
for having that kind of childhood and you know, I
think it's interesting just since you mentioned development, I'm you know,
very lucky the loving parents. And I think one of
(02:58):
the things that I really learned from my mom was
when I would come home from school and I would
not you know, be upset because I didn't do well
on a test or didn't get a grade that I wanted.
My mom would always ask me, but if you did
it again, would you do better next time? And there
(03:21):
was such This was probably really before growth mindset was
a thing, and it doesn't make sense because my mom
was an educator, but there there was such a gift
in that it's it's okay, there's that you'll get it
next time or maybe you don't have it yet right,
(03:44):
And so I think that is something that has really
stayed with me just in my life, especially because I'm
oftentimes in a learning and development role. So how can
I support people in their own growth mindset of like
you'll get you better next time? What did you learn
(04:07):
and what would you do differently? So I think that
probably if you know, resonates in terms of something that
has really stuck with me through my life.
Speaker 3 (04:18):
Mmm. Yeah, so that is really powerful and it opens
a door for growth and you're bringing it back to
the growth mindset. So as you grew, did you have
any aspirations like you wanted to become or go in
sudden direction.
Speaker 4 (04:40):
I have always had a lot of interests. I'm a
pretty naturally curious person. I've reinvented myself career wise several
times now. But you know, it's it's funny to think
of the things that I thought that I wanted when
I was young versus where I am now. But there
(05:04):
is kind of a thread within it. You know, when
I was really little, I thought I wanted to be
an actress. So I grew up in LA and you know,
being around Hollywood, you you know, it's in the water
here a little bit, and uh, it's But it's funny though,
because in a lot of ways in my corporate life
(05:26):
and even now as an entrepreneur, a lot of what
I do is facilitation public speaking things like that. So
I found my way. I do do the occasional community theater,
which I love, but you know, I found my professional
way of getting that need met.
Speaker 3 (05:48):
Yeah, that is that is powerful. So you talk about
like that. You have reinvented yourself a few times, so
tell us, like, you know a couple of tonkey points
in your life like that.
Speaker 4 (06:02):
Yeah. So one story that I often share with people
is I actually studied anthropology in college, and when I graduated,
I thought it was going to be an archaeologist. So
I went on this archaeological dig and what I found
is that while I was there, the dig leaders kept
(06:23):
saying to me, Hey, lindsay, these people aren't getting along.
Can you talk to them? So I had this realization
that my gifts are for working with living people, not
the dead. And so from there I kind of pivoted
(06:45):
into advertising. And so I worked in advertising for a
little bit. And while I was in advertising, I was
working on the client side, supporting, you know, our various accounts.
But in my space time, you know, I would find
that I would volunteer. Oh i'll help with that recruiting,
(07:06):
Oh I'll help with training, Oh I'll help with a
variety of things. And so that then pivoted me eventually
into human resources. So, you know, a lot of times
it was these little whispers of you're actually better over here,
or you know, you're really good over here, all of
(07:30):
the things have have built on each other, and kind
of similar to the original story, I keep learning and
taking what I've learned, and you know, moved that with
me as a skill set. Right, So even though I
didn't work in client service and advertising anymore, I still
(07:50):
like to apply that client service mindset in my role
in human resources. So all of these things kind of
build on one another.
Speaker 3 (08:01):
That's so powerful because so many times what happens is
that the people have studied in one discipline and then
they kind of feel like their stock they cannot move around.
But just opening yourself to learning can open up so
many doors. So what was it about the HR that
(08:23):
you really enjoyed?
Speaker 4 (08:27):
So I think, you know, again, all of these things
are an interconnected web. But you know, I studied anthropology
because I was really interested in human behavior. I was
interested in culture, you know, I was interested in rituals
(08:48):
and you know how people came together in community and
in a lot of ways. I feel like I just
translated that into being a corporate anthropologist. So it all
comes together and for me to feel like I was
(09:08):
in a place of supporting both the business and the
organization in doing well by hopefully fostering people's gifts and
growth and you know, connection and community. We spend a
lot of time at work, so how can I use
(09:30):
my strengths to hopefully make the work experience as good
as it can be for people?
Speaker 3 (09:38):
Absolutely so. So many HR professionals are sometimes caught in
the tug of war that they have to look out
for the employees and yet there are directives from leaders.
So like then, the HR leaders are caught in that situation. Yeah,
(10:01):
what are some of the ways that they can balance.
Speaker 4 (10:03):
It, balance it for themselves or balance it right all around? Yeah, yeah,
it is, you know, and I think that is one
of the skills that I think a lot of the
best human resources professionals have is they're able to really
(10:26):
look at the needs of the business. You know, how
do the people or resources need to be able to
support the strategy and the business. How do we work
with the leaders who are oftentimes taking that strategy and
putting it into execution, you know, and helping them work
(10:52):
with the people on their teams to be able to
translate those those messages. So, you know, one of the
things that I really loved being able to do when
I was in the corporate role is you know, take
all of that in balance and try to figure out what,
(11:14):
you know, what's going to work best for as many
people as possible and for the people that maybe it's
not as good of a fit for or whatnot. How
do I help coach them, coach their leaders? How do
we find a way to again come back to this
place of you know, eliciting people's gifts, because that's really
(11:38):
when businesses thrive, when people are able to grow and
develop and be recognized for all of their impact and
their contribution.
Speaker 3 (11:51):
Right, definitely, So sometimes it does happen just kind of
that the leaders pushing and then the business needs them more.
Where HR professionals HR leaders may not be able to
take care of the employees, how can the balance that,
are there any practical strategies tactics that work for you?
Speaker 4 (12:15):
I think this is not to deflect at all, but
I think there's different ways that people think about taking
care of others. Right So, I think we are unfortunately
past that stage of employee employer contract where people expect
(12:39):
companies to take care of them. And so that has
been a series of events in at least in corporate
America that has unfortunately, you know, whittled down that trust
that at least employees have that that you know, I'm
going to work here for twenty five years. I know
(13:00):
you had a previous guest who had this situation where
you know, after twenty five years you're without a job.
You know, the layoffs, unfortunately, are a de facto business
strategy now, and it's it's not what I want. I
think a lot of value creation walks out the door.
(13:23):
So there are a lot of things that people think
HR can do, but they can't. You know, HR is
not all powerful in a lot of ways. For me,
at least where when I was, you know, in a
situation where business wasn't good. I know I tried to
(13:46):
focus on you know, look, I don't want to have
to lay anybody off or you know, fire anyone or
or whatnot. But can I make sure that if I
was the person being fired or laid off, that it
is the best possible experience it can be. It's done
(14:08):
with kindness and respect and integrity. You know, if I'm
not in the place to influence the decision or to
you know, change a decision, you know, sometimes things have
to happen. So how can we do it in a
way that is, you know, most respectful and kind I
(14:31):
think is really.
Speaker 3 (14:33):
Critical, absolutely, and it's a tough place. A lot of
landscape has changed in past several decades where it used
to be that people are assets, and now with the
advent of AI, we are even hearing that, you know,
we have brought an efficiency and letting go of people
(14:57):
is almost a badge of honor. Now you've been a
leader in the corporation and you are outside, if you
were to sit with the CEO, what advice would you
give them?
Speaker 4 (15:13):
I feel like there's a you can still do well by.
Speaker 5 (15:20):
Being well and you know, if if you focus on
the well being of your employees.
Speaker 4 (15:33):
There's a lot of data, particularly from the World Well
Being Movement out of Oxford, that actually gives data to
show that when we are focused on the well being
of our employees, our profits are better, our stocks are higher. Like,
(15:56):
there's an incredible amount of data that focuses on that
that and you can't do everything you think you can do. Yeah,
And I think that is one of the things that
I have seen in the burnout epidemic is that you know,
(16:19):
you fire someone and then you just give somebody else
an entire job like people are doing multiple jobs and
what that means is they're probably not doing any one
of them very well. So how can you find a
way to make peace with these wild aspirations that often
(16:43):
get CEOs or founders in the role or in the
seat that they're in, but also recognize there's a space
of how can I do less better? How can I
do fewer things, you know, faster, stronger, et cetera, versus well,
(17:04):
you know, we're just going to do it all and
we're going to get there this way. If you're burning
people out, you're not going to likely end up with
the long term value creation that your aspirations are wanting.
Speaker 3 (17:25):
So value creation definitely is the key. And as you mentioned,
their studies after studies that have shown that the invest
in the well being of employees it's directly correlational to
the company profits. So so many times, like you mentioned
that you lay off somebody, now you're transferring that job
(17:47):
to somebody else. They already have their own job. Now
they have doubled the job, so they feel like that
the work is joining them. What could they do so
that they could go from just being existing in the
survival or panic mode to having self form off driving mode.
Speaker 4 (18:08):
So I think one of the things that I try
to advocate for in my book is that there are options,
like we have choices, more than we often think that
we do. And so you know, it does take courage.
You've got to negotiate. This is where a little bit
(18:32):
of my hope for AI is not that we're all
still working sixty to eighty hour weeks and AI, but
actually we're working a more reasonable week, and AI is
supporting us in having better work life harmony, supporting us
(18:54):
in you know, being able to really do the most
most innovative creative thinking, and you know AI does the
transactional stuff. But now I've lost your question.
Speaker 3 (19:11):
What was the.
Speaker 4 (19:13):
Went down my AI path?
Speaker 3 (19:15):
It's okay, like you answered partly about it that you
know many are feeling yes, yes, you're feeling drained. How
can you move towards the driving site?
Speaker 4 (19:28):
Yeah? So so for me, I think a lot of
it comes down to how do you create a little
bit more space time? We all have twenty four hours
in a day, even Beyonce it sorry for hours in
a day, right there, there is that Oftentimes we focus
(19:50):
just on the time element, but there are a few
other elements that you can play with. One is your energy.
So you know, oftentimes it feels like, you know, I
don't have time, I don't you know, and we're just
in this routine mode. But if you can have even
(20:12):
for a day a week, just do a many time
audit for yourself of just how did I spend my time?
What was my energy? Like, you can start to identify
the activities that feel really good, you know. I mean
there are times where I am in the flow of
(20:35):
my work, right when I'm when I am designing and
in my really creative space, time flies by. I don't
even I'm like, oh my god, it's five o'clock already,
and I don't feel drained. Right, So there's something about
acknowledging in a lot of ways that you know, we
(20:56):
can operate like a human battery of it's not that
the time as much as it is the energy that
you know is expended in that time. How much are
we recharging ourselves or keeping our battery charged versus you know,
(21:19):
just in that draining mode.
Speaker 3 (21:23):
Yeah, no, absolutely, So energy mapping really works well because
it's kind of telling you what are the tasks or
what are the areas that are draining your energy and
what are the tasks that is replenishing or recharging your energy.
And also, as you mentioned that AI can be used
to do the grunt work if the company. I think
(21:45):
so mostly like now most companies have transitioned into the
AI area where some form of shape it is happening. Yeah.
So now, like you know, as you talked about the
well being in today's day and age, it's all about
the hustle culture. And when we talk about the hustle culture,
it's like, Okay, you've got to do multitasking. And yet
(22:06):
there are studies out there that show that you know,
when you're working on one project or one task, the
brain works really well. So in so many like you know,
hundreds of context switching, how can somebody work well whils
staying focused?
Speaker 4 (22:27):
It's really hard. I mean, this is this is I
think beyond you know. So I'm a gen xer, you know,
I look at my kids who are Gen Alpha, and
I really feel like our brains are rewiring in a
(22:51):
different way where we all have a lot of just
crisis of focus, crisis of presence. So one of the
things that I talk about in my book is just
the concept of working mindfully, so we are always going
to be multitasking, you know. I mean I remember talking
(23:14):
to a client who told me about he was sitting
in a meeting with people with his laptop open, answering emails,
answering chats or slack, and also texting on his phone.
I don't know how he was processing anything happening in
(23:35):
that meeting. And so, you know, some of it is
what are ways that we can work more mindfully so
that we can be present. What are some of the
things that we can do to I think, really foster
(23:56):
body awareness. So you know, part of either hustle culture
or lack of focus is we just keep going, right,
We're just in this loop of putting out fires, putting
out fires, putting ou fires, putting out fires, and we
don't have a lot of time to focus. But if
we can really start to create some mindful practices, it
(24:18):
creates that little bit of pause for us to really
think about how to respond versus just react. And so
getting out of that cycle of responsiveness, getting out of
that hustle mentality, I'm just going to power through, even
(24:39):
though you know, I know for me, I now can
feel in my body like you know what I need
to just step away from my computer. I'm not going
to come up with that LinkedIn post or that you know,
program design, because my body is telling me you need
(24:59):
to get up, need to take a walk, you need
to clear your head and come back so that you
can be fully present and focused. So lots of different
ways to work mindfully to create more space for pause
and reflection.
Speaker 3 (25:16):
Definitely that that makes a huge, huge difference that when
you're allowing that dress time, that pause time between. So
tell us a bit about your transition from being in
the corporate and stepping out to become an entrepreneur.
Speaker 4 (25:34):
Yeah, so it's interesting because I actually really always wanted
to be an entrepreneur someday. You know, I knew I
was going to get some jobs and get some experience.
But when I went to business school, I you know,
(25:54):
really focused on you know, both organization behavior but also entrepreneurship.
So I've tried to take a lot of classes to
do that. And yeah, it's funny flash forward twenty years later.
I didn't think that I would still be in corporate America.
(26:15):
But really it was the gift of a layoff that
allowed me to pursue my entrepreneurial dreams. So I had
already been in a lot of ways seeding this for
myself and imagining and focusing on what are some of
the skills that I could, you know, bring to bear
(26:36):
as an entrepreneur. What do I want to do as
an entrepreneur? Do I want a product or a platform?
I don't want to be, you know, consulting. So I
think for me, what ended up happening was, you know,
I received the gift of a layoff. It was an
(26:57):
opportunity to make a pivot, throw some spaghetti against the wall.
See if anything stucks, see if I liked it. And
you know, here I am twenty months into the journey,
and you know, I'm loving it. I you know, it
is hard. There are days when you know, I feel
(27:20):
the old adage of entrepreneurs are the only people who
work eighty hours to avoid working forty. So you know,
there are those days, but I really try to practice
what I preach about, you know, working well. And yeah,
I'm just enjoying all of the learning and growth that
(27:44):
that's part of this new identity.
Speaker 3 (27:50):
Fantastic. So congratulations on making the transition, and that's really
going because it's so important to know that there are
different options in life, and of course, you know different
options would be different for everyone sitting down and exploring les.
It's such an important thing. So how did you get
into the book writing?
Speaker 5 (28:13):
So?
Speaker 4 (28:14):
I don't you know, it's funny when I I think
I've always just felt there was a book in me,
which I know sounds super cliche, But there were things
that were starting to germinate. In my last couple of
years in corporate America, I had the great fortune of
(28:36):
being able to shift to a part time schedule, and
while I was working part time, it was like my
mind was just opened so much to wow, there are
all these practices and new habits that I am creating
(28:59):
that are making me away from being really the workaholic
that I had started to become. And as a coach,
I was starting to see, Wow, some of my clients
who aren't working part time are also practicing some of
these habits and ways of being that are supporting them
(29:22):
in not being a workaholic and finding great work life harmony.
And so all of these patterns, you know, maybe from
my anthropologist days of being able to spot patterns, were
really starting to sink and come together. And again the
beauty of the layoff was I knew I knew I
(29:42):
would never get time like this again. So you know,
I knew that it would take at least six months
for me to really ramp up into getting paid work.
So I was given that gift of this window of
having per and focus and at the same time time.
(30:06):
So that really is what started me on the journey.
And I was contacted by a publisher that had a
fabulous black for ideal that I just could not take
advantage of knowing that I was going to have this time.
So you know, sometimes you have to put structures and
(30:26):
systems in place to support you in these places of newness.
Speaker 3 (30:33):
Absolutely, and that is structures that are flexible are so
important to have it, especially as an entrepreneur, because it's
very easy to become the drift wood just going in
so many different directions. I think those futures are very helpful.
(30:54):
So congratulations on your book, and why don't you share
a few techniques that our audience is going to blend
their lives to bring in developing.
Speaker 4 (31:07):
Yeah, so there's a lot in the book. The name
of the book is working hell to working well, making
your company work for you, and I think for me
some of what you know, some of my experience that
I'm bringing forward in the book is that oftentimes we
(31:28):
are either in this place of you know, I'm just
going to quit, or you know, unfortunately we are let go,
But they're the grass isn't always greener on the other side.
So how do I make where I am right now,
where I have a network, where I have relationships, where
(31:51):
I have knowledge and experience to bring to bear, how
can I make my company really work for me? And
so one of the things that I talk about in
my book is, you know, in addition to working mindfully,
taking some of that self awareness and identifying what are
(32:14):
your needs? What is it that you want to be
able to get out of work?
Speaker 3 (32:20):
Right?
Speaker 4 (32:20):
We spend a lot of hours there. What are the
needs that we need to be met? And actually this
concept of needs, while I have other research that also
speaks to it, from my personal experience, I really came
to understand what my needs at work were when I
(32:42):
left the corporate world and moved to Australia for a
family adventure for a couple of years with a toddler,
and my daughter was born there, and I really had
to reinvent myself again. I wasn't going to be able
to really find a job there. But I went from
being a working mom who had a you know, many
(33:06):
years as a career professional to being a stay at
home mom, and I just was like, Okay, I don't
know how many times I can just say here and
watch ants on the sidewalk, like I need to figure
out something as much as I love it, and I
miss that. I needed to find something that was really
(33:29):
going to help me still feel like me or still
feel like that's part of me. And so I was
able to identify my three eyes. So the first one,
after spending a lot of time with young children, I
knew I needed interaction in the form of adult interaction.
(33:50):
So that's my first eye. I knew I needed intellectual challenge,
and I knew I needed to feel like I was
having an impact. And so those were really the three
core needs that I got out of work. And so
I took those needs and I started thinking, well, what
else can I do? What other choices do I have,
(34:12):
What possibilities are there that might scratch those itches? And
so I ended up I was reading a lot of
children's books, and I was getting tired of reading a
monkey truck over and over again, and so I decided, well, let's,
you know, let's learn about writing children's books. You know,
I have time and space to be able to do that.
(34:34):
I have research every day, and so I took a class,
you know, I went to conferences, so that intellectual development
and challenge was there, and I knew I needed the interaction.
So I started a writer's group of other children's book authors.
And so, you know, while the impact piece of my
(34:58):
job per se as a children's book writer wasn't there
unfortunately never got published, but you know, I still felt
like I was doing something. I was getting a lot
of satisfaction out of that that you know, sense of
purpose and connection. So you know, in a lot of ways,
(35:21):
I feel like that experience really helped support me on
the current book writing journey as well. It also supported
me as I went back to work to think about
what is it that I need to get from my job.
When we returned from Australia and make those various pivots.
(35:42):
As you know, my career progressed, you know, post expat.
Speaker 3 (35:48):
Life absolutely and that's powerful that you were able to
look at what your needs are and then pivot. Even
in that entrepreneurship. So where can people find your book
and where can they connect with you?
Speaker 4 (36:03):
Yeah? So I love to connect with people on LinkedIn.
That's my primary social media platform. I also have a
couple of websites you can find me on it from
a book perspective, working hell to working well. Dot com
has a lot of free resources on there also upcoming
(36:25):
events that if people want to attend or hear more.
And then my business website is Barnett with two t's
Coaching dot com And yeah, so, lots of different ways
to connect. And you know, hopefully what people are walking
(36:46):
away from this today is that there are a lot
of choices. There are a lot of possibilities for us
for you know, kind of job crafting to make our
roles work better for us. There's also a lot of
choices we can make to find greater work life harmony.
Speaker 3 (37:07):
Absolutely well, thank you for joining us, Lindsey.
Speaker 4 (37:11):
Thank you for shoving me.
Speaker 3 (37:14):
Absolutely Thank you wonderful audience, because without you, the show
would not be possible. Reach out to us, let us
know how can we serve and support you to live
the life you deserve. And thank you one for making
the show technically possible. Be well, and take care until
next time.
Speaker 2 (37:33):
Thank you for being part of Beyond Confidence with your host,
d v Park, we hope you have learned more about
how to start living the life you want. Each week
on Beyond Confidence, you hear stories of real people who've
experienced growth by overcoming their fears and building meaningful relationships.
During Beyond Confidence, v Park shares what happened to her
when she stepped down of her comfort zone to work
(37:54):
directly with people across the globe. She not only coaches
people how to form hard connections, but also transform relationships
to mutually beneficial partnerships as they strive to live the
life they want. If you are ready to live the
life you want and leverage your strengths, learn more at
www dot dwpark dot com and you can connect with
DWT contact at dvpark dot com. We look forward to
(38:18):
you're joining us next week.
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(00:20):
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Speaker 2 (00:25):
This is Beyond Confidence with your host dvpark. Do you
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(00:45):
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dvpark dot com. This is beyond Confidence and now here's
(01:08):
your host, w Park.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
Good morning listeners, It's Tuesday, and of course you know
I'd love to be here with you. So awesome to
be here and we are going to have some great
conversation today and just wanted to share. Yes, I've finished, finished,
finished my first draft on about the book on artificial
(01:34):
Intelligence and super excited about it now going through the
editing piece and of course that is never fun when
you go back and read your draft. So remember that
all of us go through those pain points and the
key is coming out of it, like you know, staying
(01:55):
with the discomfort, because the key that opens the door
of development goes through discomfort. So just excited to be
here with you, and let's bring in our guests. MELIKLM.
Speaker 4 (02:12):
Lindsay, Hi, Divia, thank you for having me.
Speaker 3 (02:17):
Oh, it's awesome to have you on this show. So Lindsey,
tell us if you're a call a moment from your
childhood youth where it was a remarkable positive moment where
a person or an incident something happened that left a
mark on you.
Speaker 4 (02:36):
Wow, there are so many issues from I'm very grateful
for having that kind of childhood and you know, I
think it's interesting just since you mentioned development, I'm you know,
very lucky the loving parents. And I think one of
(02:58):
the things that I really learned from my mom was
when I would come home from school and I would
not you know, be upset because I didn't do well
on a test or didn't get a grade that I wanted.
My mom would always ask me, but if you did
it again, would you do better next time? And there
(03:21):
was such This was probably really before growth mindset was
a thing, and it doesn't make sense because my mom
was an educator, but there there was such a gift
in that it's it's okay, there's that you'll get it
next time or maybe you don't have it yet right,
(03:44):
And so I think that is something that has really
stayed with me just in my life, especially because I'm
oftentimes in a learning and development role. So how can
I support people in their own growth mindset of like
you'll get you better next time? What did you learn
(04:07):
and what would you do differently? So I think that
probably if you know, resonates in terms of something that
has really stuck with me through my life.
Speaker 3 (04:18):
Mmm. Yeah, so that is really powerful and it opens
a door for growth and you're bringing it back to
the growth mindset. So as you grew, did you have
any aspirations like you wanted to become or go in
sudden direction.
Speaker 4 (04:40):
I have always had a lot of interests. I'm a
pretty naturally curious person. I've reinvented myself career wise several
times now. But you know, it's it's funny to think
of the things that I thought that I wanted when
I was young versus where I am now. But there
(05:04):
is kind of a thread within it. You know, when
I was really little, I thought I wanted to be
an actress. So I grew up in LA and you know,
being around Hollywood, you you know, it's in the water
here a little bit, and uh, it's But it's funny though,
because in a lot of ways in my corporate life
(05:26):
and even now as an entrepreneur, a lot of what
I do is facilitation public speaking things like that. So
I found my way. I do do the occasional community theater,
which I love, but you know, I found my professional
way of getting that need met.
Speaker 3 (05:48):
Yeah, that is that is powerful. So you talk about
like that. You have reinvented yourself a few times, so
tell us, like, you know a couple of tonkey points
in your life like that.
Speaker 4 (06:02):
Yeah. So one story that I often share with people
is I actually studied anthropology in college, and when I graduated,
I thought it was going to be an archaeologist. So
I went on this archaeological dig and what I found
is that while I was there, the dig leaders kept
(06:23):
saying to me, Hey, lindsay, these people aren't getting along.
Can you talk to them? So I had this realization
that my gifts are for working with living people, not
the dead. And so from there I kind of pivoted
(06:45):
into advertising. And so I worked in advertising for a
little bit. And while I was in advertising, I was
working on the client side, supporting, you know, our various accounts.
But in my space time, you know, I would find
that I would volunteer. Oh i'll help with that recruiting,
(07:06):
Oh I'll help with training, Oh I'll help with a
variety of things. And so that then pivoted me eventually
into human resources. So, you know, a lot of times
it was these little whispers of you're actually better over here,
or you know, you're really good over here, all of
(07:30):
the things have have built on each other, and kind
of similar to the original story, I keep learning and
taking what I've learned, and you know, moved that with
me as a skill set. Right, So even though I
didn't work in client service and advertising anymore, I still
(07:50):
like to apply that client service mindset in my role
in human resources. So all of these things kind of
build on one another.
Speaker 3 (08:01):
That's so powerful because so many times what happens is
that the people have studied in one discipline and then
they kind of feel like their stock they cannot move around.
But just opening yourself to learning can open up so
many doors. So what was it about the HR that
(08:23):
you really enjoyed?
Speaker 4 (08:27):
So I think, you know, again, all of these things
are an interconnected web. But you know, I studied anthropology
because I was really interested in human behavior. I was
interested in culture, you know, I was interested in rituals
(08:48):
and you know how people came together in community and
in a lot of ways. I feel like I just
translated that into being a corporate anthropologist. So it all
comes together and for me to feel like I was
(09:08):
in a place of supporting both the business and the
organization in doing well by hopefully fostering people's gifts and
growth and you know, connection and community. We spend a
lot of time at work, so how can I use
(09:30):
my strengths to hopefully make the work experience as good
as it can be for people?
Speaker 3 (09:38):
Absolutely so. So many HR professionals are sometimes caught in
the tug of war that they have to look out
for the employees and yet there are directives from leaders.
So like then, the HR leaders are caught in that situation. Yeah,
(10:01):
what are some of the ways that they can balance.
Speaker 4 (10:03):
It, balance it for themselves or balance it right all around? Yeah, yeah,
it is, you know, and I think that is one
of the skills that I think a lot of the
best human resources professionals have is they're able to really
(10:26):
look at the needs of the business. You know, how
do the people or resources need to be able to
support the strategy and the business. How do we work
with the leaders who are oftentimes taking that strategy and
putting it into execution, you know, and helping them work
(10:52):
with the people on their teams to be able to
translate those those messages. So, you know, one of the
things that I really loved being able to do when
I was in the corporate role is you know, take
all of that in balance and try to figure out what,
(11:14):
you know, what's going to work best for as many
people as possible and for the people that maybe it's
not as good of a fit for or whatnot. How
do I help coach them, coach their leaders? How do
we find a way to again come back to this
place of you know, eliciting people's gifts, because that's really
(11:38):
when businesses thrive, when people are able to grow and
develop and be recognized for all of their impact and
their contribution.
Speaker 3 (11:51):
Right, definitely, So sometimes it does happen just kind of
that the leaders pushing and then the business needs them more.
Where HR professionals HR leaders may not be able to
take care of the employees, how can the balance that,
are there any practical strategies tactics that work for you?
Speaker 4 (12:15):
I think this is not to deflect at all, but
I think there's different ways that people think about taking
care of others. Right So, I think we are unfortunately
past that stage of employee employer contract where people expect
(12:39):
companies to take care of them. And so that has
been a series of events in at least in corporate
America that has unfortunately, you know, whittled down that trust
that at least employees have that that you know, I'm
going to work here for twenty five years. I know
(13:00):
you had a previous guest who had this situation where
you know, after twenty five years you're without a job.
You know, the layoffs, unfortunately, are a de facto business
strategy now, and it's it's not what I want. I
think a lot of value creation walks out the door.
(13:23):
So there are a lot of things that people think
HR can do, but they can't. You know, HR is
not all powerful in a lot of ways. For me,
at least where when I was, you know, in a
situation where business wasn't good. I know I tried to
(13:46):
focus on you know, look, I don't want to have
to lay anybody off or you know, fire anyone or
or whatnot. But can I make sure that if I
was the person being fired or laid off, that it
is the best possible experience it can be. It's done
(14:08):
with kindness and respect and integrity. You know, if I'm
not in the place to influence the decision or to
you know, change a decision, you know, sometimes things have
to happen. So how can we do it in a
way that is, you know, most respectful and kind I
(14:31):
think is really.
Speaker 3 (14:33):
Critical, absolutely, and it's a tough place. A lot of
landscape has changed in past several decades where it used
to be that people are assets, and now with the
advent of AI, we are even hearing that, you know,
we have brought an efficiency and letting go of people
(14:57):
is almost a badge of honor. Now you've been a
leader in the corporation and you are outside, if you
were to sit with the CEO, what advice would you
give them?
Speaker 4 (15:13):
I feel like there's a you can still do well by.
Speaker 5 (15:20):
Being well and you know, if if you focus on
the well being of your employees.
Speaker 4 (15:33):
There's a lot of data, particularly from the World Well
Being Movement out of Oxford, that actually gives data to
show that when we are focused on the well being
of our employees, our profits are better, our stocks are higher. Like,
(15:56):
there's an incredible amount of data that focuses on that
that and you can't do everything you think you can do. Yeah,
And I think that is one of the things that
I have seen in the burnout epidemic is that you know,
(16:19):
you fire someone and then you just give somebody else
an entire job like people are doing multiple jobs and
what that means is they're probably not doing any one
of them very well. So how can you find a
way to make peace with these wild aspirations that often
(16:43):
get CEOs or founders in the role or in the
seat that they're in, but also recognize there's a space
of how can I do less better? How can I
do fewer things, you know, faster, stronger, et cetera, versus well,
(17:04):
you know, we're just going to do it all and
we're going to get there this way. If you're burning
people out, you're not going to likely end up with
the long term value creation that your aspirations are wanting.
Speaker 3 (17:25):
So value creation definitely is the key. And as you mentioned,
their studies after studies that have shown that the invest
in the well being of employees it's directly correlational to
the company profits. So so many times, like you mentioned
that you lay off somebody, now you're transferring that job
(17:47):
to somebody else. They already have their own job. Now
they have doubled the job, so they feel like that
the work is joining them. What could they do so
that they could go from just being existing in the
survival or panic mode to having self form off driving mode.
Speaker 4 (18:08):
So I think one of the things that I try
to advocate for in my book is that there are options,
like we have choices, more than we often think that
we do. And so you know, it does take courage.
You've got to negotiate. This is where a little bit
(18:32):
of my hope for AI is not that we're all
still working sixty to eighty hour weeks and AI, but
actually we're working a more reasonable week, and AI is
supporting us in having better work life harmony, supporting us
(18:54):
in you know, being able to really do the most
most innovative creative thinking, and you know AI does the
transactional stuff. But now I've lost your question.
Speaker 3 (19:11):
What was the.
Speaker 4 (19:13):
Went down my AI path?
Speaker 3 (19:15):
It's okay, like you answered partly about it that you
know many are feeling yes, yes, you're feeling drained. How
can you move towards the driving site?
Speaker 4 (19:28):
Yeah? So so for me, I think a lot of
it comes down to how do you create a little
bit more space time? We all have twenty four hours
in a day, even Beyonce it sorry for hours in
a day, right there, there is that Oftentimes we focus
(19:50):
just on the time element, but there are a few
other elements that you can play with. One is your energy.
So you know, oftentimes it feels like, you know, I
don't have time, I don't you know, and we're just
in this routine mode. But if you can have even
(20:12):
for a day a week, just do a many time
audit for yourself of just how did I spend my time?
What was my energy? Like, you can start to identify
the activities that feel really good, you know. I mean
there are times where I am in the flow of
(20:35):
my work, right when I'm when I am designing and
in my really creative space, time flies by. I don't
even I'm like, oh my god, it's five o'clock already,
and I don't feel drained. Right, So there's something about
acknowledging in a lot of ways that you know, we
(20:56):
can operate like a human battery of it's not that
the time as much as it is the energy that
you know is expended in that time. How much are
we recharging ourselves or keeping our battery charged versus you know,
(21:19):
just in that draining mode.
Speaker 3 (21:23):
Yeah, no, absolutely, So energy mapping really works well because
it's kind of telling you what are the tasks or
what are the areas that are draining your energy and
what are the tasks that is replenishing or recharging your energy.
And also, as you mentioned that AI can be used
to do the grunt work if the company. I think
(21:45):
so mostly like now most companies have transitioned into the
AI area where some form of shape it is happening. Yeah.
So now, like you know, as you talked about the
well being in today's day and age, it's all about
the hustle culture. And when we talk about the hustle culture,
it's like, Okay, you've got to do multitasking. And yet
(22:06):
there are studies out there that show that you know,
when you're working on one project or one task, the
brain works really well. So in so many like you know,
hundreds of context switching, how can somebody work well whils
staying focused?
Speaker 4 (22:27):
It's really hard. I mean, this is this is I
think beyond you know. So I'm a gen xer, you know,
I look at my kids who are Gen Alpha, and
I really feel like our brains are rewiring in a
(22:51):
different way where we all have a lot of just
crisis of focus, crisis of presence. So one of the
things that I talk about in my book is just
the concept of working mindfully, so we are always going
to be multitasking, you know. I mean I remember talking
(23:14):
to a client who told me about he was sitting
in a meeting with people with his laptop open, answering emails,
answering chats or slack, and also texting on his phone.
I don't know how he was processing anything happening in
(23:35):
that meeting. And so, you know, some of it is
what are ways that we can work more mindfully so
that we can be present. What are some of the
things that we can do to I think, really foster
(23:56):
body awareness. So you know, part of either hustle culture
or lack of focus is we just keep going, right,
We're just in this loop of putting out fires, putting
out fires, putting ou fires, putting out fires, and we
don't have a lot of time to focus. But if
we can really start to create some mindful practices, it
(24:18):
creates that little bit of pause for us to really
think about how to respond versus just react. And so
getting out of that cycle of responsiveness, getting out of
that hustle mentality, I'm just going to power through, even
(24:39):
though you know, I know for me, I now can
feel in my body like you know what I need
to just step away from my computer. I'm not going
to come up with that LinkedIn post or that you know,
program design, because my body is telling me you need
(24:59):
to get up, need to take a walk, you need
to clear your head and come back so that you
can be fully present and focused. So lots of different
ways to work mindfully to create more space for pause
and reflection.
Speaker 3 (25:16):
Definitely that that makes a huge, huge difference that when
you're allowing that dress time, that pause time between. So
tell us a bit about your transition from being in
the corporate and stepping out to become an entrepreneur.
Speaker 4 (25:34):
Yeah, so it's interesting because I actually really always wanted
to be an entrepreneur someday. You know, I knew I
was going to get some jobs and get some experience.
But when I went to business school, I you know,
(25:54):
really focused on you know, both organization behavior but also entrepreneurship.
So I've tried to take a lot of classes to
do that. And yeah, it's funny flash forward twenty years later.
I didn't think that I would still be in corporate America.
(26:15):
But really it was the gift of a layoff that
allowed me to pursue my entrepreneurial dreams. So I had
already been in a lot of ways seeding this for
myself and imagining and focusing on what are some of
the skills that I could, you know, bring to bear
(26:36):
as an entrepreneur. What do I want to do as
an entrepreneur? Do I want a product or a platform?
I don't want to be, you know, consulting. So I
think for me, what ended up happening was, you know,
I received the gift of a layoff. It was an
(26:57):
opportunity to make a pivot, throw some spaghetti against the wall.
See if anything stucks, see if I liked it. And
you know, here I am twenty months into the journey,
and you know, I'm loving it. I you know, it
is hard. There are days when you know, I feel
(27:20):
the old adage of entrepreneurs are the only people who
work eighty hours to avoid working forty. So you know,
there are those days, but I really try to practice
what I preach about, you know, working well. And yeah,
I'm just enjoying all of the learning and growth that
(27:44):
that's part of this new identity.
Speaker 3 (27:50):
Fantastic. So congratulations on making the transition, and that's really
going because it's so important to know that there are
different options in life, and of course, you know different
options would be different for everyone sitting down and exploring les.
It's such an important thing. So how did you get
into the book writing?
Speaker 5 (28:13):
So?
Speaker 4 (28:14):
I don't you know, it's funny when I I think
I've always just felt there was a book in me,
which I know sounds super cliche, But there were things
that were starting to germinate. In my last couple of
years in corporate America, I had the great fortune of
(28:36):
being able to shift to a part time schedule, and
while I was working part time, it was like my
mind was just opened so much to wow, there are
all these practices and new habits that I am creating
(28:59):
that are making me away from being really the workaholic
that I had started to become. And as a coach,
I was starting to see, Wow, some of my clients
who aren't working part time are also practicing some of
these habits and ways of being that are supporting them
(29:22):
in not being a workaholic and finding great work life harmony.
And so all of these patterns, you know, maybe from
my anthropologist days of being able to spot patterns, were
really starting to sink and come together. And again the
beauty of the layoff was I knew I knew I
(29:42):
would never get time like this again. So you know,
I knew that it would take at least six months
for me to really ramp up into getting paid work.
So I was given that gift of this window of
having per and focus and at the same time time.
(30:06):
So that really is what started me on the journey.
And I was contacted by a publisher that had a
fabulous black for ideal that I just could not take
advantage of knowing that I was going to have this time.
So you know, sometimes you have to put structures and
(30:26):
systems in place to support you in these places of newness.
Speaker 3 (30:33):
Absolutely, and that is structures that are flexible are so
important to have it, especially as an entrepreneur, because it's
very easy to become the drift wood just going in
so many different directions. I think those futures are very helpful.
(30:54):
So congratulations on your book, and why don't you share
a few techniques that our audience is going to blend
their lives to bring in developing.
Speaker 4 (31:07):
Yeah, so there's a lot in the book. The name
of the book is working hell to working well, making
your company work for you, and I think for me
some of what you know, some of my experience that
I'm bringing forward in the book is that oftentimes we
(31:28):
are either in this place of you know, I'm just
going to quit, or you know, unfortunately we are let go,
But they're the grass isn't always greener on the other side.
So how do I make where I am right now,
where I have a network, where I have relationships, where
(31:51):
I have knowledge and experience to bring to bear, how
can I make my company really work for me? And
so one of the things that I talk about in
my book is, you know, in addition to working mindfully,
taking some of that self awareness and identifying what are
(32:14):
your needs? What is it that you want to be
able to get out of work?
Speaker 3 (32:20):
Right?
Speaker 4 (32:20):
We spend a lot of hours there. What are the
needs that we need to be met? And actually this
concept of needs, while I have other research that also
speaks to it, from my personal experience, I really came
to understand what my needs at work were when I
(32:42):
left the corporate world and moved to Australia for a
family adventure for a couple of years with a toddler,
and my daughter was born there, and I really had
to reinvent myself again. I wasn't going to be able
to really find a job there. But I went from
being a working mom who had a you know, many
(33:06):
years as a career professional to being a stay at
home mom, and I just was like, Okay, I don't
know how many times I can just say here and
watch ants on the sidewalk, like I need to figure
out something as much as I love it, and I
miss that. I needed to find something that was really
(33:29):
going to help me still feel like me or still
feel like that's part of me. And so I was
able to identify my three eyes. So the first one,
after spending a lot of time with young children, I
knew I needed interaction in the form of adult interaction.
(33:50):
So that's my first eye. I knew I needed intellectual challenge,
and I knew I needed to feel like I was
having an impact. And so those were really the three
core needs that I got out of work. And so
I took those needs and I started thinking, well, what
else can I do? What other choices do I have,
(34:12):
What possibilities are there that might scratch those itches? And
so I ended up I was reading a lot of
children's books, and I was getting tired of reading a
monkey truck over and over again, and so I decided, well, let's,
you know, let's learn about writing children's books. You know,
I have time and space to be able to do that.
(34:34):
I have research every day, and so I took a class,
you know, I went to conferences, so that intellectual development
and challenge was there, and I knew I needed the interaction.
So I started a writer's group of other children's book authors.
And so, you know, while the impact piece of my
(34:58):
job per se as a children's book writer wasn't there
unfortunately never got published, but you know, I still felt
like I was doing something. I was getting a lot
of satisfaction out of that that you know, sense of
purpose and connection. So you know, in a lot of ways,
(35:21):
I feel like that experience really helped support me on
the current book writing journey as well. It also supported
me as I went back to work to think about
what is it that I need to get from my job.
When we returned from Australia and make those various pivots.
(35:42):
As you know, my career progressed, you know, post expat.
Speaker 3 (35:48):
Life absolutely and that's powerful that you were able to
look at what your needs are and then pivot. Even
in that entrepreneurship. So where can people find your book
and where can they connect with you?
Speaker 4 (36:03):
Yeah? So I love to connect with people on LinkedIn.
That's my primary social media platform. I also have a
couple of websites you can find me on it from
a book perspective, working hell to working well. Dot com
has a lot of free resources on there also upcoming
(36:25):
events that if people want to attend or hear more.
And then my business website is Barnett with two t's
Coaching dot com And yeah, so, lots of different ways
to connect. And you know, hopefully what people are walking
(36:46):
away from this today is that there are a lot
of choices. There are a lot of possibilities for us
for you know, kind of job crafting to make our
roles work better for us. There's also a lot of
choices we can make to find greater work life harmony.
Speaker 3 (37:07):
Absolutely well, thank you for joining us, Lindsey.
Speaker 4 (37:11):
Thank you for shoving me.
Speaker 3 (37:14):
Absolutely Thank you wonderful audience, because without you, the show
would not be possible. Reach out to us, let us
know how can we serve and support you to live
the life you deserve. And thank you one for making
the show technically possible. Be well, and take care until
next time.
Speaker 2 (37:33):
Thank you for being part of Beyond Confidence with your host,
d v Park, we hope you have learned more about
how to start living the life you want. Each week
on Beyond Confidence, you hear stories of real people who've
experienced growth by overcoming their fears and building meaningful relationships.
During Beyond Confidence, v Park shares what happened to her
when she stepped down of her comfort zone to work
(37:54):
directly with people across the globe. She not only coaches
people how to form hard connections, but also transform relationships
to mutually beneficial partnerships as they strive to live the
life they want. If you are ready to live the
life you want and leverage your strengths, learn more at
www dot dwpark dot com and you can connect with
DWT contact at dvpark dot com. We look forward to
(38:18):
you're joining us next week.
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