June 4, 2025 • 47 mins
After Hurricane Sandy devastated her community, Kathleen Biggins, a garden club enthusiast, pivoted from a career in advertising, and created a nonprofit, C-Change Conversations, to help bridge divides about climate change and stimulate productive, non-partisan conversations on the topic. Biggins' acclaimed Primer series has inspired over 20,000 people in communities across 33 states to understand how climate change is a shared challenge and not a divisive issue. www.c-changeconversations.org
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
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(00:20):
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Speaker 2 (00:41):
Welcome to Fearless Fabulous You. I am your host, Melanie Young,
and if you follow me regularly, you know I love
to introduce you to inspiring women who have created amazing
second acts. I think I'm on my third act at
this point in my life, so I support all women
who find new purpose and passion at new stages of
(01:03):
our life. And that is really what my guest today
is doing. We're kind of soul sisters in other ways
because I live now in New Orleans and she was
born and raised in New Orleans, and she is doing
amazing things in an area that we are all very
concerned about, and that is climate change. Now that I've
moved to New Orleans. It's like in my face every
(01:24):
day because we just started hurricane season. But you know,
even in Tennessee, where I used to live. In New York,
where I lived for much of my life, we were
hit by hurricanes quite often. The worst one in New
York when I lived there was Hurricane Sandy, which was
just incredibly destructive. We were talking about that last night
at an event. It is a global situation. As I
(01:48):
travel the world visiting wineries for my life as a
wine and food writer, I talked to farmers all the
time who are being impacted by climate change. This is
not your backyard, it is our global backyard. And Kathleen
Biggins is changing the conversation and really moving the conversation
(02:09):
forward in this area. And we're going to talk to
her about this.
Speaker 3 (02:12):
So.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
Kathleen Biggins, founder and president of Sea Change Conversations, a
nonprofit dedicated to expanding the conversation in a very constructive
way about climate change. Welcome to Fearless, Fabulous you.
Speaker 3 (02:27):
Oh, it's such a pleasure to be with you.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
Well, Kathleen, we're going to start with your backstory. As
I mentioned, you were born and raised in New Orleans.
Tell us our listeners about your life here and what
your early interests were and where you ended up as
pursuing your education.
Speaker 4 (02:46):
Sure, so, as you said, I grew up in New Orleans.
I was the youngest of three girls. I used to
take the street car to school every day and loved
growing up in New Orleans. Just thought it was the
most interesting place on the planet, and indeed it still
(03:09):
is in many ways to me. I had the opportunity
to go to college at the University of Virginia, and
then afterwards I spent a year as a rotary scholar
in Europe, traveling around and being exposed to so many
different types of cultures.
Speaker 3 (03:28):
And no matter where I went.
Speaker 4 (03:30):
Though, there was no place like New Orleans, and it
always has held such an important place in my heart.
And that actually has helped kind of propel me because,
just as you said, if you're living in New Orleans,
climate change is a really big threat. And I will
say that my love for my home city is part
of what really pushed me to start this outreach.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
Well, it's interesting because you, actually, like me, were in
a communications spell for many years. I had a public
relations business in New York and young Communications, and you
worked for Ogilvie and Mail. Like me, you knew you
wanted to move to New York and pursue the life
because you make it there, you make it anywhere. And
I was the same way. I left Atlanta and Chattanooga
(04:14):
where I was from, to Tedson, New York, and like you,
slept on friends sofas and until I got that land
of that job. How long did you work in that
field in advertising and marketing?
Speaker 4 (04:30):
So I worked at Ogilvie probably around nine years, and
then I moved to Princeton, New Jersey, which is where
I reside now, and worked for a marketing company there
for several years until I had my second child, And
so then I took some time out and really did
volunteer work as I raised my two sons, but was
always quite involved in a wide range of things. I
(04:52):
was on the board of our local symphony as well
as the Watershed Institute, which is a environmental group in
the area. So always wanted to give back to the
community and always wanted to have the opportunity to continue
to learn and contribute.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
That's wonderful that you were able to do that. What
in you're Marriorg How long have you been married to
your husband and what does he do? Oh wow, so
we've obviously you had a supportive husband to do that.
Speaker 4 (05:24):
Indeed, we have been married now for thirty seven years.
Thirty eight years, congratulations. And he is very supportive of
this outreach because believes in it as well. But he
actually runs a consulting business that helps companies relocate big
(05:46):
chunks of jobs. It's called location economics. So it's been
really intriguing for me to have that lens on this
issue because he's helping so many companies decide where to
move in to help me understand how kind of movers
and shakers within the business world are factoring in climate
(06:06):
change or factoring in some of the there are needs
that are being impacted by climate change. So it's been
a great partnership in a marriage and also in what
we do, I would think.
Speaker 2 (06:19):
So it's a big topic because people relocate. You know,
housing is important, and I know here in Louisiana the
cost of insurance is through this roof, and our friends
in California they're struggling right now with this because of
the fires, and insurance is becoming a huge issue. That's
why I rent, not by I've learned. I was fascinated
(06:40):
by the fact, and I think it's wonderful that you
did step away. I think it's important to underscore to
my women listeners that it is perfectly okay to step
away from your career and do the you know, take
time off to be with your family, and do it
without any regrets or worries. I mean fortunate at a
supportive husband, but it is important. A lot of women
struggle with this. I didn't have to because I never
(07:01):
had children, but I think it's great that you did,
and then it provided you the time to pursue interest
in your talents. In other ways, what was interesting is
you became involved with garden clubs, and that really was
the jumping off point to where you are now with
one of them. There were several going with sea Change conversation,
(07:25):
so give us a little backstory on that.
Speaker 4 (07:29):
Sure, as you said, it's often really important to have
the ability to pursue new passions and to strive for
new talents or new accomplishments, and so gardening with always
one that I wanted to be better at and that
(07:50):
I felt I was not that knowledgeable and was a
little intimidated by it. So I joined a local garden club,
the Garden Club of Princeton, which is part of the
Garden Club of America, and I learned quite a lot
through that association.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
But one of the.
Speaker 4 (08:06):
Things is the fact that many people don't know is
a Golden Club of America has a very strong environmental platform.
They believe very much that we should protect the natural
world and that we should be educated on the natural world.
And yet they are in no way a partisan group
or a left leaning group, or even what you would
(08:27):
call an environmental group. They have a very reasonable and
I would say passionate, but not partisan voice in this arena.
And one of the things they do every year is
hold the conference in Washington, d C. Where they bring
in delegates from all over the country to learn about
(08:47):
the priorities and to hear from people on the hill,
people in the administration about issues that were wending through
that were topical to these times. And I attended one
of these conferences representing my club, again, the Garden Club
of Princeton, and I heard from a military person and
(09:07):
from a business leader that climate change was real.
Speaker 3 (09:12):
And almost knocked my socks off.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
I was like, it's not real.
Speaker 4 (09:14):
What and yet these two really illustrious, smart, articulate leaders
within their fields were saying that it indeed was true.
And that was kind of my first awakening. And then
a couple of years later, Hurricane Sandy hit our region
(09:35):
caused a great devastation, and I heard that climate chain
has kind of exacerbated the amount of damage that had
been done. And so I went back down to this
conference and learned that in fact, climate change was coming faster,
and it was going to hit us harder, and it
was going to be much more expensive and painful if
we didn't get in.
Speaker 3 (09:55):
Front of it.
Speaker 4 (09:57):
And that was kind of a wake up call for
me something I had been just intellectually interested in and
kind of following became a calling, became a desire to
wake up my colleagues and friends and loved ones who
really didn't think of climate change as a true threat
or something that was pertinent to them or that they
(10:19):
had to worry about. And yet I knew we were
all collectively really on a dangerous trajectory. And it was
a communications challenge, if you will, how can we wake
people up without turning them off because it was a
topic people didn't want to hear about and didn't want
to speak to others about.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
It's so interesting, you know a couple of things. First
of all, I had no idea that garden clubs were
that active in you know, kept I think about my grandmother.
She was the garden club. But they were a little
white gloves and they you know, looked at camellias. But
it's not that. And I'm already telling about a story
to write about that. It's very interesting. I have to ask,
(10:57):
what about Katrina? You didn't mention herk King Katrina? How
was and that was two thousand and five and this
light bulb was two thousand and six. Sandy was later?
Was your family? How was your family impacted by Hurricane Katrina?
Was your family here?
Speaker 4 (11:12):
So my parents moved out the year of Hurricane Katrina,
so right before the storm. So so I did not
have direct family here. I did have cousins and aunts here,
and they obviously suffered as well.
Speaker 3 (11:28):
But Katrina was an.
Speaker 4 (11:30):
Interesting challenge because so much of the damage really was
because the levees failed, which many say is more of
a man made issue than the fact that the hurricane
was so powerful it overwhelmed us. It was more that
our defenses failed, and so I haven't linked that as
closely to climate though I do think that my understanding
(11:56):
that nature can overwhelm us, that the power can be
so strong and something that humans can't control, that many
Americans haven't experience, though they are more frequently now. But
growing up with hurricanes as part of your I won't
say daily life, but part of your consistent fear and
(12:19):
concern and changes your perspective on nature and humanity, human's
relationship with her interesting.
Speaker 2 (12:28):
And I'm glad your family was lucky. We live on
in Lakeview where it was underwater, and the streets are
still a mess. I think they're finally fixing them. How
long has it been?
Speaker 3 (12:37):
You know?
Speaker 2 (12:37):
Here's how climate change has really impacted me, and I
think everybody you know, I think once you explain it
as how it impacts your day to day life. You
know the cost of food, food, in agriculture. I travel
a lot to Europe and I talked, as I said earlier,
to wine producers. They're having to alter vineyards and adapt
(13:01):
because of mold, mildew, excessive rain, excessive heat. The grapes
you're sensitive. It's not just grapes, it's all agriculture. Is
being impacted by it, and that's why your food prices
are up. So that's where it hurts the pocket book.
It hurts the pocketbook when the insurance companies want to
raise your policy rates because of more natural disasters that
(13:26):
keep be happy, whether it's earthquakes, floods, rains. I think
about my friends in Asheville, North Carolina, who in their
lives never thought their talent would be hit and it did.
Speaker 3 (13:39):
You're absolutely right.
Speaker 4 (13:39):
So just to clarify for your readers for a second,
one of the things that we try to do is
bring that reality that climate change is hitting things you
care about right now, right your insurance or the stability
of your community exactly, but also that we shouldn't see
(14:02):
it within a partisan perspective, but in fact it's a
human issue because it impacts our jobs and economy, our
health and safety, and geopolitical stability, things that all Americans
care about. And then we try to localize our messaging
because we travel all over the country doing this and
I think it's thirty three states now, about twenty two
thousand people reaching out towards moderates and conservatives who may
(14:25):
not see that climate change is impacting them already and
may not believe still that it's a conversation that they
need to or want to have. And you're absolutely right
by translating it down to how it matters today individuals.
It's an important way in and its important way for
people to open their perspective on the issue.
Speaker 2 (14:46):
You've got to address the nimbi's and not in my
backyards and the not in my lifetimes, like that's the
next generation, but it does impact everybody today. And you
underscore at See Change Conversation, which is a nonprofit that
you are nonpartisan, non political, and you avoid the word
environmental activism, which I think is really important. Why is
(15:09):
that important to underscore and your mission at Sea Change Conversation.
Speaker 4 (15:15):
Because I think it's so easy to pigeonhole it if
you say it's an environmental issue, and obviously it has
environmental impacts, clear, but the fact of the matter is
these impacts are now cascading outside of the natural world
into our human systems, our economy, our communities, and whether
(15:36):
we can be strong even as a society, our health systems,
and so all of a sudden, if you pigeonhole it,
it seems something small and it's easier to identify as
something that is appropriate for the left, because they're the
ones that are the Greenies, they are over there. But
when instead you position it as well, this is impacting
our geopolitical security, or hey, this is impacting my wallet,
(15:59):
this is impact acting what I have to pay for
your health, my health exactly, and then it becomes, as
I said, a human issue. And we drive so hard
to help people understand that we're all in this boat
together and we all need to care.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
So when did you you established Sea Change Conversations in
twenty fourteen, you decided to create the nonprofit? What were
the steps to do that and why you decided to
You know, there are many ways to create a nonprofit
and its purpose, right, why give us the why in
(16:38):
terms of we know what propelled you to it, But
why did you decide to focus on conversations and really
what becomes education and awareness building? Ah?
Speaker 4 (16:53):
So, we, as I said, we wanted to find a
way to wake people up with turning them off. And
originally we were just focused on our home community of
Princeton Right Garden Club.
Speaker 3 (17:08):
And we realized that there are many people.
Speaker 4 (17:10):
Again, colleagues, friends, even loved ones who weren't really in
the group who didn't want to hear about it, didn't
want us to talk about it to the met a
cocktail party or over dinner or waiting in the school line.
Speaker 3 (17:25):
It's like a no go.
Speaker 4 (17:27):
And so we were like, Okay, how can we get
them into the conversation. And we realized that if we
replicated what had happened to us down in Washington, d C.
At these conferences where these outside experts came in and
talked about it and we listened because they weren't greenies,
they weren't environmentalists, they were someone different talking about it,
(17:50):
that maybe we'd have a chance.
Speaker 3 (17:51):
And so we started.
Speaker 4 (17:53):
Off just doing speaker series in Princeton and we served
really good wine and really good food and then invited
people to come and they came, and we had speakers
like the former governor Christine Whitman, who had also been
the head of the EPA, who was a Republican governor
who was very very savvy on climate change, in climate policy.
(18:13):
We had a rear admiral come in and talk about
the military perspective. We had had a risk strategy from
Gloman Sachs come in and talk about risk strategy assessment
and how we're not doing that well in the realm
of climate, and we had many others, but it created
that safe route in in Princeton. However, I was getting very,
(18:36):
very frustrated that people who came were not coming to
all of them and we're getting kind of a deep
dive in a specific SLVER issue, but not a three
sixty view. And that's when I wrote, with climate experts
and energy experts this PowerPoint primer or primmer if you will,
Yees brought forward and we originally showed it to the
(18:58):
garden clubs. They asked this to bring it to National.
We showed it to National and they were like, oh,
we really like this. We want you to open our
conferences down in DC for several years running because they
felt it set the table. It framed the issue in
a nonpartisan way, in an inclusive way that other speakers
could then build off of, and people who were there
(19:20):
as delegates hurt us and then invited us to come
to their communities and bring this conversation there.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
And at that time we.
Speaker 4 (19:29):
Decided we really need to expand and become a not
for profit because we needed to fundraise and able to
afford to travel the country even though those speakers are
all volunteers.
Speaker 3 (19:40):
Just we needed to be able.
Speaker 4 (19:42):
To maintain what we were doing, and so that kind
of led us to are not for profit status.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
So you raise money which basically funds the speaking programs,
right the primer and you have three levels of primers
from what I see on the website, which for our
listeners to see change conversations dot org. But why don't
you explain that more?
Speaker 3 (20:07):
So we.
Speaker 4 (20:10):
Raise the funds for several things. Now, we definitely to
help us get out to places that don't have the
budgets to really pay to bring us. So for our
travel costs, we often stay with our hosts to keep
the costs down.
Speaker 3 (20:25):
So we really do this.
Speaker 4 (20:26):
As I said, our volunteers speakers are all volunteers, and
so we do everything we can to keep our costs down.
But we also spend a lot of time on creating
follow up information that will continue the dialogue, continue that
conversation with audience members after we leave that market.
Speaker 3 (20:45):
So we have.
Speaker 4 (20:45):
Monthly newsletters of news of hope, news of concern. We
do blogs, we do webinars, We do all sorts of
education materials even in schools and for other groups. Again
and to bring this kind of non partisan, inclusive voice
to the to the broader discussion, if you will. So
(21:08):
we definitely do that. We also do tailor our primers.
We have different types of primers. We have those that
use health and focus just on how climate change impacts
our health and safety, because that's a really important way in.
And we also have primers that focus more on business
for business audiences because we've also been asked by many
(21:31):
companies to come in and talk to their employees to
help them understand why perhaps that company is pivoting to
a new strategy because of the realities of climate change.
And so, yes, we have the ability to tailor, and
we have several already tailored that we are currently presented presenting.
Speaker 2 (21:52):
So climate change is a big topic and then there's
a lot of little topics in it. You know what
I'm going to ask you, how you define I think
this is important Probace should have done in the beginning,
But how you define climate change? Because there are people
who deny it. Some people have called it global warming.
It's climate change. Who it's not. We're warming. There are
(22:14):
places that are raining more or muddy more. It's not
just about heat. It's about a lot of other things.
It involves food waste, which is a big topic with me.
I've covered it a lot. So it's you know, how
it's you said, it's a lifestyle. How would you define
it to someone who says it's not my problem. I
(22:36):
don't know if it's really true or not.
Speaker 4 (22:39):
Well, the way we define it often in our presentations
is it's simply the changes in our long term weather
patterns are hot, are cold, our rain or snow, even
our wind and water currents. And when we talk about it,
we talk about really the changes that we have started
to feel since the mid twentieth century. So think about
what was normal that then. It's very different than what
(23:02):
is normal today. And I think most people, even deniers,
are noticing that things are different, that the weather is
much less predictable, that it's kind of gotten on steroids.
Things that happened before are happening in a much more
powerful and dangerous way. Many people say natural cycles. Our
(23:26):
presentation addresses that straight on and helps them understand why
it's not. Many people say, oh, the climate's always been changing,
and we help them understand why today's changes is at
a rate that is really unprecedented and is being caused
by human activity, and.
Speaker 3 (23:44):
It's really straightforward.
Speaker 4 (23:47):
Once you lay out the science in a very nonpartisan,
comprehensive way, that part of climate change isn't that complicated.
Speaker 3 (23:56):
The part that is complicated.
Speaker 4 (23:58):
Is how the fact that we are changing our composition
of our atmosphere by putting up more greenhouse gases, primarily
by burning fossil fuels, and how that is cascating across
the natural systems, and how those changes are impacting, as
I said before, our human systems. And that gets quite complicated,
(24:20):
and there's lots of room for disagreement and pushback, and
we recognize that.
Speaker 3 (24:26):
But the science is.
Speaker 4 (24:27):
Pretty darn clear, and what we can see and experience
with our own eyes and in our own backyards is
getting clear as well. And so I think that really
helps us that once we lay it out in a
very welcoming, nonpartisan, here's the fact kind of way, we
really can get people to open their minds and go, wow,
(24:51):
this is something I need to care about.
Speaker 2 (24:54):
I think those are really good points. I mean, you know,
it becomes a hotbed because you've got companies that you know,
I grew up in Chattanooga examples. I grew up in Chattanooga, Tennessee.
When I grew up there in the seventies, it was
named one of the most polluted cities in the United States.
There was, you know, the Chicken poultry farm. The whole
city smelled, the processing farm. There was Schultz Tannery smell.
(25:17):
There was the Cisco. There was every kind of manufacturing
and they were dumping into the water and they were
admitting into the air, and it was filthy, and as
a result, many people moved away. Chattanooga had a bad reputation.
Nobody cared about it, and finally people woke up and
invested in turning things around to with the mission and
(25:41):
goal which they have succeeded doing to make it green
and invest in environmental programs and also invest in fest internet,
the things to make life make it more smoothly. And
now it is a very hot destination in Many people,
including a lot of Californians, are relocating there because it's
considered safer to live there now than California seems to
(26:03):
be burning up or falling into the ocean. And I
love California. So that's an example of cities and communities
becoming realizing there's a problem. But it took the bad
publicity to say, oh, we got to do something because
everybody was leaving, including me. That's an example.
Speaker 4 (26:21):
Well, I was just in Chattanooga this year. Presently, maybe
it was the last fall, but recently we were just
in Chattanooga, and it is a happening place. It is place,
and people are so proud of it and about the
fact it's becoming more of an economic powerhouse and a
place that people want to live. So you're absolutely right.
(26:43):
These things are tied directly to our quality of life
and quality of our local economy.
Speaker 3 (26:49):
I do think.
Speaker 4 (26:50):
I think that in the realm of climate change, though,
one of the misperceptions is that climate action has to
be painful in a sacrifice, and it's just not the
case anymore, right, And so you know, taking climate action
is actually super smart economically that yields so much in
(27:13):
return that it's really short sighted and expensive not to
And that's a message that we've been able to also
get out there that I think many people don't get
because they just get hammered, Oh it's going to cost
me more money. Oh it's going to drive up my
energy costs, And that's just a tiny sliver that's not
really the full picture at all.
Speaker 2 (27:32):
Well, also, you said your husband's in the relocation business.
It also impacts where companies set up their businesses and
where they relocate people and where people move. New Orleans
is suffering because it's lost a lot of people. It
lost a lot of people after Katrina, but it has
continued to have a declining population because it has an
image problem. It has a part, the good part of
(27:54):
the image, but the negative part is you know, hurricanes dirty.
We just had a massive blackout in the middle Memorial
Day weekend, one hundred thousand people out energy because they're
load shedding. You know, there are so many factors and
you see it and they need, you know, and the
government is a bit discombobulated on how to funnel those
(28:17):
funds to make it happen, and they're gonna have to.
It's going to be a wake up call. We thought
Katrina was. It wasn't and it has to be. But
I think one of the reasons it's going to be
a wake up call is that economically, people are leaving
and businesses aren't coming in. And that sometimes is the
spark when you realize the population is exiting and investment
is not coming in that's when people say we need
(28:38):
to do something, it should be other reasons as well,
like health and wellness and whatnot. But that's what I think,
that's what spurred Chad Nigga.
Speaker 4 (28:47):
Yeah, you know, and you're also absolutely right that businesses
are making decisions based on what is best for their
bottom line, where their facilities will be safe.
Speaker 3 (29:05):
And also where.
Speaker 4 (29:10):
Where they can get the type of energy that is
being mandated by many of their stakeholders, and especially if
they're international companies that they're mandated on the global scale
or by Europe and other people that are at the
forefront that are forcing these global companies to raise their standards.
(29:32):
And so companies have embraced clean energy and many of
the climate strategies that make sense. Unfortunately, we are still
in a place where it is a partisan hot potato
and tend to use it to whip up their base
(29:54):
on both sides, and that's just not helpful. But it
definitely still is not. As I mean we phrase this,
the vast majority of Americans are concerned about climate change.
The vast majority of Americans, like almost eighty percent, want
more support of clean energy, but we aren't seeing that
(30:15):
reflected in the political actions right, both at the federal
level today and at the state level in many areas.
Speaker 3 (30:23):
So there's a lag.
Speaker 4 (30:24):
There's a political lag from where the constituents really are,
where the action is.
Speaker 2 (30:30):
And the sad thing about that is that people give
up and they go, I give up. I can't you know,
they move into their little bubble and do nothing, and
you don't want that. So I here's my question to you.
What when you you and your volunteers go talking to
communities and you're in large communities and small I think
(30:50):
a lot of the people in the underschool what can
I really do? Is it really it's above anything I
can control because of the unfortunately the bureaucracy of layers
that change policy. What can people, individual people do or
small groups of people do in their own communities, because
(31:12):
there's really grassroots this is where you can make the
biggest steps. What can they do? What simple steps? Would
you say?
Speaker 4 (31:23):
So while you say that people are eager to do
things that I would say that while people are concerned,
they rank it quite low on their hierarchy of what
when they go to vote, So it may be fourteenth, seventeenth,
twenty ninth, so hello, it needs to get high.
Speaker 3 (31:40):
It needs to be one of the first.
Speaker 4 (31:42):
Things that you say is important to you when go
to vote, because it impacts the things that you do
care about most. Your family's health, your job, you know,
the safety and viability of your community. Immigration is greatly
impacted by climate change. So anything you care about almost
I mean, I know, I'm making a blanket statement is
(32:03):
impacted by climate joints, and we have to help people
connect those dots and bring it much further forward. It's
also a topic that's not spoken about a lot. Most
people don't hear it spoken about very much at all,
and so they aren't aware of just how strong the
support is amongst others to have climate action to become
(32:25):
a safer situation, and so raising your voice talking about
it is one of the most important things you can do.
Taking action on a local basis. There's all sorts of
ways of getting involved in helping smart smart and I'm
gonna say smart not just willy nilly action at the
(32:46):
local basis, from helping to ensure there's enough of a
green canopy and areas that currently are more exposed because
that is one way of mitigating that extraordinary heat that's coming,
to helping local regulations on water and land usage and
(33:07):
even on clean energy access and construction to enable that transition,
because sometimes we need to do an investment up front
to have a lot of savings on the other side,
and that's been a real hiccup for people who aren't
willing to make that investment in order to get those savings.
But that's where governments and policymakers can really play an
important part. But only if you raise your voice and
(33:29):
say it's important. And I want to just call out
Texas for a minute, because in Texas is a really
interesting place right now. They are the number one producer
of renewables. It's like they are the powerhouse of the
country right now, which is kind of shocking. But in
solar and when batteries, they are just making it happen.
(33:50):
And part of that is that they are deregulated energy
market and they really allow the market to push things forward,
and when solar and battery are pretty darn and expensive
and in many places less expensive than the fossil fuels.
So there was a real move a foot this just
last month to kind of corral the growth of renewables, saying, whoa,
(34:13):
we can't let that happen. We have to boost fossil
fuels and hinder renewables. And it passed one part of
their legislator, but didn't make it over the finish line.
And at the same time, what did make it over
the finish line, and let's see if it gets vetoed
is support of clean energy for distributed energy on rooftops.
Speaker 2 (34:36):
So interesting?
Speaker 3 (34:37):
What made that happen?
Speaker 4 (34:39):
That had to be pushed back from businesses and rate
payers and numbers are saying, hey.
Speaker 3 (34:45):
It's going to be more expensive. What are you doing? Stop?
Speaker 2 (34:49):
And it's the pocketbook.
Speaker 4 (34:50):
It matters economics, and there's the bottom line, and the
constituents' desire to have this.
Speaker 3 (34:56):
Energy was strong enough to stop this political push.
Speaker 2 (35:01):
It's interesting, correct.
Speaker 3 (35:02):
And we'll see if it's stay stout next year it
could be back.
Speaker 4 (35:05):
But I thought it was a fascinating tale because I
don't know that that could have happened five years ago,
ten years ago. I think it's because clean energy now
it's something people desire and is less expensive and gives
all these added benefits, and people are recognizing it.
Speaker 2 (35:20):
I think people just need to realize and understand the
benefits and that it's not beyond them that they have
to be part of a you know, part of solving it.
I mean, you know, apathy goes nowhere, advocacy does. And
you don't have to be an activist. You can be
an advocate and say I support it, but you know,
it's important to have awareness. I think that what might
(35:41):
be helpful on your website. It would be really good
to see some books suggested reading on this topic. I am,
as we were talking, one of the people I wish
and I'm going to ask you about environmental people in
time you'd love to have met. I would love to
have met Rachel Carson, Oh, yeah, who wrote Silent Spring,
and she ended up about pesticides and the impact on
(36:04):
health and later died of cancer. And we know that
the use of pesticides does directly impact your health. And
I have you know, I am a breast cancer survivor,
so I always wonder, you know, even though I have
the genetic gene if the air in New York after
(36:25):
September eleventh augmented the situation because it was very toxic
air and a lot of people developed cancer after that.
And I always wonder because I was living fairly close
to ground zero on fourteenth Street, So you wonder about that,
but I'd like to have met her. But I think
you know, I've made a note to read that book.
I've actually never read it. I've only heard about it,
(36:48):
which is why I thought reading lists would be helpful
to understand the impact. Who what, Who in the world
of environmental advocacy or activism would you like to meet
and why or do you respect? Right now? Why?
Speaker 4 (37:03):
Wow, that's a tough question.
Speaker 3 (37:04):
Well, one I would.
Speaker 4 (37:05):
Say is Heyhoe, Catherine Hayho Okay, the chief scientist of
the Nature CONCERNCY. Now, she is a climate scientist who
is also an evangelical that she hails from Texas. I
think she was Canadian originally, but now she's been living
in Texas and she is one of those people who
(37:28):
can connect the dots in a really great way. I mean,
she's a scientist, but be she has the compassion to
reach across the aisle, to reach people who see things differently,
and to even reach to and evangelicals, which is a
group that has historically uh to embrace climate change. Yeah,
(37:51):
and in some cases reticent to even believe that. You know,
the Earth is as old as many scientists say it is.
But think it'stead that I believe started like around two
thousand years ago. Any of your evangelical listeners can correct me,
which which makes it hard for some of our slides,
because we go back and rush, you know, eight hundred
thousand years ago, twenty thousand goes to how aberrant today
(38:13):
is to help them understand. But Katherine Hahoe has a
book called Saving Nature, which is a wonderful book. And
Catherine herself is just a force of nature and one
that is so well respected on the international stage, so
she would definitely be someone I interested.
Speaker 2 (38:32):
I'll look her up. I'm not familiar with her.
Speaker 4 (38:35):
And if you think about what we're doing, fossil fuels
are just bits of plant and animal manner that fell
to the earth millions of years ago, got silted over
and with time heat and pressure pulled deep underground and
turned into pools of elemental carbon, which we call oil,
natural gas, and coal. It was deep underground, and then
(38:57):
humans came and said, really rich and energy portable, really storable,
I'm going to use it, and they created this vibrant
economy that we all have benefited from. But they were
taking in that carbon that was deep underground over millions
and millions of years. I started pumping it up in
the atmosphere at alarmingly fast rates, as much as forty
tons of carbon every single year. So that is upsetting
(39:20):
the balance that always existed, and I don't think people
have computed that in their brains that what we've done
is kind of push nature out of the balance that
has existed since human civilization has been on the planet.
Speaker 2 (39:32):
Actually, it's a simple in summarizing that. It's an imbalance
of nature when nature becomes inbound, and if you look
at it, it's like your body. When your body becomes
toxic and imbalanced, you get sick.
Speaker 4 (39:51):
Yeah, I guess you would would say that. I guess
what I would say is we're putting it into a
different balance, and one that our species isn't suited for,
because nature goes in and out of different balances all
the time. And the fact that she happens to have
lingered at the sixty degrees fahrenheit kind of typical temperature
for the last ten thousand years was lucky for us
(40:14):
because it's really good for our species. But it's not
like that's where nature wants to revert back to. So
if we knock the temperatures up to higher temperatures. It's
not like nature wants to come back to that balance point.
So I guess, I guess you're right and thinking that
(40:34):
we're making her sick, But I think it's more that
we're knocking her into a space that is no longer
suitable for us.
Speaker 2 (40:44):
But that's a great way to explain it to people
that it's beyond them for some when you get into
science and the word fossil fuel, which I quickly looked
up while you were talking, because there are a lot
of people who don't know what fossil fuel is. It's
you know, there are terms that are confusing, which also
would be helpful, is like what the terms mean, because
I looked up a few while we were talking, because
(41:07):
you want to use them correctly, but you want to
better understand what carbon emissions is. You know, it's bad,
but what really is it? You know, how is it?
How is it created? And why is it bad? You know,
because people talk about cows and the carbon emission, you know,
on and on and on, and I think, uh, delineating
it and explaining it, which you can do through communication,
(41:28):
is critical because otherwise people kind of shut down because
they don't understand right, well.
Speaker 4 (41:35):
So let me let me then give your audience a
tiny little bit of knowledge on that. So, sure, greenhouse
gases are critically important to making the planet habitable. Without them,
were totally frozen. But they only make up a teeny
tiny portion of our atmosphere, less than one percent. And
(41:59):
when we talk about green house gases, primarily are talking
about carbon dioxide, methane, nitrous oxide, and even water vapor,
which goes up and down really really fast. So without
these greenhouse gases, as I said, we wouldn't have enough
of the solar radiance captured to make us livable. And
(42:21):
because there's so few of them, when we add to
them by burning fossil feels really fast.
Speaker 3 (42:29):
We're kind of we call it thickening the.
Speaker 4 (42:32):
Blanket, making them more insulating, if you will, so let
me rephrase this, Let me stop.
Speaker 3 (42:41):
This isn't good. Let me rephrase this.
Speaker 4 (42:43):
Okay, So let me explain what greenhouse gases are.
Speaker 3 (42:47):
Greenhouse gases are literally a tiny.
Speaker 4 (42:51):
Portion of our atmosphere that is comprised of these specific
gases like carbon dioxide, methane, nitros oxide, and even vapor.
Out of them, we would have a frozen planet. But
when we add to them, they simply do their jobs
too well, and that heats up the earth further and
(43:12):
adds energy into our climate systems.
Speaker 2 (43:14):
You did a very good job explaining it, and I
think you know we were cutting towards the end of
the conversation here, but I think it's important to underscore
a couple of things. Kathleen begins you. You had a
prior life. It was successful. You chose to move into
another dimension of it through your volunteerism, which I think
(43:36):
is really in your community activities that you did after
you left your full time job to care for your family.
You found a purpose and passion to help create conversations
around something that is important to all of us, which
is climate change. It's not political, it's not actism. Its
awareness and advocacy to help people in different communities understand
(44:02):
that climate change is going to impact you everyone, all
of us, whether it's your health, your safety, your environment,
your pocket book, your ability to find work if you
are going somewhere and the jobs are ount because people
go elsewhere, it basically affects your life. And if you
(44:25):
think it doesn't, you really are mistaken. And it's time
to understand it. Even if you understand it in the
basic way, like you explain that, it is important because
even long after you and I are gone, you've got children.
It will impact them. And really, at the end of
the day, you know, you want to leave the world
in a better place.
Speaker 4 (44:47):
Yes, indeed, I think all of us want to leave
the world at least as good as we were given
it for our kids exactly. And that's a universal feeling
really across the island and across the and I think
that is one of the driving forces that gets people
to the table to understand this risk.
Speaker 2 (45:05):
Right well, you know, thank you for making the comedy,
pushing the conversation forward, because without that important skill of communication,
it would just go under the you know, into the heap,
as they say, with with other waste and things that
people do. Oh, that's messy. I don't want to talk
(45:26):
about it. No, it's not. It is messy, and you
do want to talk about it. And sometimes it's very
important to talk about very messy, difficult things so that
we can understand how they impact us. So we've been
talking to we're going to you know, Kathleen Biggins, who
has founded Sea Change, It's Sea Dash Change Conversations dot org.
It is a nonprofit and you can actually go on
(45:46):
the site and ask to have a speaker come to you.
You've talked to twenty two thousand people in thirty thirty
three states. It looks like it looks like Alabama needs
some work here, Alabama and most of the Midway in
the Rocky Mountains could use some help. But it's good
to see how far you have come. Congratulations on this,
(46:07):
and I wish you all the best moving the conversation
forward even more.
Speaker 3 (46:12):
Oh, thank you, Melanie. It's been a.
Speaker 2 (46:14):
Pleasure, absolutely so you've been listening to Fearless Fabulous you.
I will post this show on my site, my page
and on LinkedIn and everywhere else to share it with
you as well. And I hope this has really raised
your awareness but also your idea of why it matters.
(46:35):
Because it does. And as I always like to say
on the show at the end, you know you have
one life. You can choose to live it on your
terms or on terms that people set for you. I
chose a long time ago to live on my terms
and I choose fearless and fabulous, and I hope you
do too. Thank you, Thank you.
Speaker 4 (47:00):
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We make no recommendations or endorsements for radio show programs, services,
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(00:20):
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Speaker 2 (00:41):
Welcome to Fearless Fabulous You. I am your host, Melanie Young,
and if you follow me regularly, you know I love
to introduce you to inspiring women who have created amazing
second acts. I think I'm on my third act at
this point in my life, so I support all women
who find new purpose and passion at new stages of
(01:03):
our life. And that is really what my guest today
is doing. We're kind of soul sisters in other ways
because I live now in New Orleans and she was
born and raised in New Orleans, and she is doing
amazing things in an area that we are all very
concerned about, and that is climate change. Now that I've
moved to New Orleans. It's like in my face every
(01:24):
day because we just started hurricane season. But you know,
even in Tennessee, where I used to live. In New York,
where I lived for much of my life, we were
hit by hurricanes quite often. The worst one in New
York when I lived there was Hurricane Sandy, which was
just incredibly destructive. We were talking about that last night
at an event. It is a global situation. As I
(01:48):
travel the world visiting wineries for my life as a
wine and food writer, I talked to farmers all the
time who are being impacted by climate change. This is
not your backyard, it is our global backyard. And Kathleen
Biggins is changing the conversation and really moving the conversation
(02:09):
forward in this area. And we're going to talk to
her about this.
Speaker 3 (02:12):
So.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
Kathleen Biggins, founder and president of Sea Change Conversations, a
nonprofit dedicated to expanding the conversation in a very constructive
way about climate change. Welcome to Fearless, Fabulous you.
Speaker 3 (02:27):
Oh, it's such a pleasure to be with you.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
Well, Kathleen, we're going to start with your backstory. As
I mentioned, you were born and raised in New Orleans.
Tell us our listeners about your life here and what
your early interests were and where you ended up as
pursuing your education.
Speaker 4 (02:46):
Sure, so, as you said, I grew up in New Orleans.
I was the youngest of three girls. I used to
take the street car to school every day and loved
growing up in New Orleans. Just thought it was the
most interesting place on the planet, and indeed it still
(03:09):
is in many ways to me. I had the opportunity
to go to college at the University of Virginia, and
then afterwards I spent a year as a rotary scholar
in Europe, traveling around and being exposed to so many
different types of cultures.
Speaker 3 (03:28):
And no matter where I went.
Speaker 4 (03:30):
Though, there was no place like New Orleans, and it
always has held such an important place in my heart.
And that actually has helped kind of propel me because,
just as you said, if you're living in New Orleans,
climate change is a really big threat. And I will
say that my love for my home city is part
of what really pushed me to start this outreach.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
Well, it's interesting because you, actually, like me, were in
a communications spell for many years. I had a public
relations business in New York and young Communications, and you
worked for Ogilvie and Mail. Like me, you knew you
wanted to move to New York and pursue the life
because you make it there, you make it anywhere. And
I was the same way. I left Atlanta and Chattanooga
(04:14):
where I was from, to Tedson, New York, and like you,
slept on friends sofas and until I got that land
of that job. How long did you work in that
field in advertising and marketing?
Speaker 4 (04:30):
So I worked at Ogilvie probably around nine years, and
then I moved to Princeton, New Jersey, which is where
I reside now, and worked for a marketing company there
for several years until I had my second child, And
so then I took some time out and really did
volunteer work as I raised my two sons, but was
always quite involved in a wide range of things. I
(04:52):
was on the board of our local symphony as well
as the Watershed Institute, which is a environmental group in
the area. So always wanted to give back to the
community and always wanted to have the opportunity to continue
to learn and contribute.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
That's wonderful that you were able to do that. What
in you're Marriorg How long have you been married to
your husband and what does he do? Oh wow, so
we've obviously you had a supportive husband to do that.
Speaker 4 (05:24):
Indeed, we have been married now for thirty seven years.
Thirty eight years, congratulations. And he is very supportive of
this outreach because believes in it as well. But he
actually runs a consulting business that helps companies relocate big
(05:46):
chunks of jobs. It's called location economics. So it's been
really intriguing for me to have that lens on this
issue because he's helping so many companies decide where to
move in to help me understand how kind of movers
and shakers within the business world are factoring in climate
(06:06):
change or factoring in some of the there are needs
that are being impacted by climate change. So it's been
a great partnership in a marriage and also in what
we do, I would think.
Speaker 2 (06:19):
So it's a big topic because people relocate. You know,
housing is important, and I know here in Louisiana the
cost of insurance is through this roof, and our friends
in California they're struggling right now with this because of
the fires, and insurance is becoming a huge issue. That's
why I rent, not by I've learned. I was fascinated
(06:40):
by the fact, and I think it's wonderful that you
did step away. I think it's important to underscore to
my women listeners that it is perfectly okay to step
away from your career and do the you know, take
time off to be with your family, and do it
without any regrets or worries. I mean fortunate at a
supportive husband, but it is important. A lot of women
struggle with this. I didn't have to because I never
(07:01):
had children, but I think it's great that you did,
and then it provided you the time to pursue interest
in your talents. In other ways, what was interesting is
you became involved with garden clubs, and that really was
the jumping off point to where you are now with
one of them. There were several going with sea Change conversation,
(07:25):
so give us a little backstory on that.
Speaker 4 (07:29):
Sure, as you said, it's often really important to have
the ability to pursue new passions and to strive for
new talents or new accomplishments, and so gardening with always
one that I wanted to be better at and that
(07:50):
I felt I was not that knowledgeable and was a
little intimidated by it. So I joined a local garden club,
the Garden Club of Princeton, which is part of the
Garden Club of America, and I learned quite a lot
through that association.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
But one of the.
Speaker 4 (08:06):
Things is the fact that many people don't know is
a Golden Club of America has a very strong environmental platform.
They believe very much that we should protect the natural
world and that we should be educated on the natural world.
And yet they are in no way a partisan group
or a left leaning group, or even what you would
(08:27):
call an environmental group. They have a very reasonable and
I would say passionate, but not partisan voice in this arena.
And one of the things they do every year is
hold the conference in Washington, d C. Where they bring
in delegates from all over the country to learn about
(08:47):
the priorities and to hear from people on the hill,
people in the administration about issues that were wending through
that were topical to these times. And I attended one
of these conferences representing my club, again, the Garden Club
of Princeton, and I heard from a military person and
(09:07):
from a business leader that climate change was real.
Speaker 3 (09:12):
And almost knocked my socks off.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
I was like, it's not real.
Speaker 4 (09:14):
What and yet these two really illustrious, smart, articulate leaders
within their fields were saying that it indeed was true.
And that was kind of my first awakening. And then
a couple of years later, Hurricane Sandy hit our region
(09:35):
caused a great devastation, and I heard that climate chain
has kind of exacerbated the amount of damage that had
been done. And so I went back down to this
conference and learned that in fact, climate change was coming faster,
and it was going to hit us harder, and it
was going to be much more expensive and painful if
we didn't get in.
Speaker 3 (09:55):
Front of it.
Speaker 4 (09:57):
And that was kind of a wake up call for
me something I had been just intellectually interested in and
kind of following became a calling, became a desire to
wake up my colleagues and friends and loved ones who
really didn't think of climate change as a true threat
or something that was pertinent to them or that they
(10:19):
had to worry about. And yet I knew we were
all collectively really on a dangerous trajectory. And it was
a communications challenge, if you will, how can we wake
people up without turning them off because it was a
topic people didn't want to hear about and didn't want
to speak to others about.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
It's so interesting, you know a couple of things. First
of all, I had no idea that garden clubs were
that active in you know, kept I think about my grandmother.
She was the garden club. But they were a little
white gloves and they you know, looked at camellias. But
it's not that. And I'm already telling about a story
to write about that. It's very interesting. I have to ask,
(10:57):
what about Katrina? You didn't mention herk King Katrina? How
was and that was two thousand and five and this
light bulb was two thousand and six. Sandy was later?
Was your family? How was your family impacted by Hurricane Katrina?
Was your family here?
Speaker 4 (11:12):
So my parents moved out the year of Hurricane Katrina,
so right before the storm. So so I did not
have direct family here. I did have cousins and aunts here,
and they obviously suffered as well.
Speaker 3 (11:28):
But Katrina was an.
Speaker 4 (11:30):
Interesting challenge because so much of the damage really was
because the levees failed, which many say is more of
a man made issue than the fact that the hurricane
was so powerful it overwhelmed us. It was more that
our defenses failed, and so I haven't linked that as
closely to climate though I do think that my understanding
(11:56):
that nature can overwhelm us, that the power can be
so strong and something that humans can't control, that many
Americans haven't experience, though they are more frequently now. But
growing up with hurricanes as part of your I won't
say daily life, but part of your consistent fear and
(12:19):
concern and changes your perspective on nature and humanity, human's
relationship with her interesting.
Speaker 2 (12:28):
And I'm glad your family was lucky. We live on
in Lakeview where it was underwater, and the streets are
still a mess. I think they're finally fixing them. How
long has it been?
Speaker 3 (12:37):
You know?
Speaker 2 (12:37):
Here's how climate change has really impacted me, and I
think everybody you know, I think once you explain it
as how it impacts your day to day life. You
know the cost of food, food, in agriculture. I travel
a lot to Europe and I talked, as I said earlier,
to wine producers. They're having to alter vineyards and adapt
(13:01):
because of mold, mildew, excessive rain, excessive heat. The grapes
you're sensitive. It's not just grapes, it's all agriculture. Is
being impacted by it, and that's why your food prices
are up. So that's where it hurts the pocket book.
It hurts the pocketbook when the insurance companies want to
raise your policy rates because of more natural disasters that
(13:26):
keep be happy, whether it's earthquakes, floods, rains. I think
about my friends in Asheville, North Carolina, who in their
lives never thought their talent would be hit and it did.
Speaker 3 (13:39):
You're absolutely right.
Speaker 4 (13:39):
So just to clarify for your readers for a second,
one of the things that we try to do is
bring that reality that climate change is hitting things you
care about right now, right your insurance or the stability
of your community exactly, but also that we shouldn't see
(14:02):
it within a partisan perspective, but in fact it's a
human issue because it impacts our jobs and economy, our
health and safety, and geopolitical stability, things that all Americans
care about. And then we try to localize our messaging
because we travel all over the country doing this and
I think it's thirty three states now, about twenty two
thousand people reaching out towards moderates and conservatives who may
(14:25):
not see that climate change is impacting them already and
may not believe still that it's a conversation that they
need to or want to have. And you're absolutely right
by translating it down to how it matters today individuals.
It's an important way in and its important way for
people to open their perspective on the issue.
Speaker 2 (14:46):
You've got to address the nimbi's and not in my
backyards and the not in my lifetimes, like that's the
next generation, but it does impact everybody today. And you
underscore at See Change Conversation, which is a nonprofit that
you are nonpartisan, non political, and you avoid the word
environmental activism, which I think is really important. Why is
(15:09):
that important to underscore and your mission at Sea Change Conversation.
Speaker 4 (15:15):
Because I think it's so easy to pigeonhole it if
you say it's an environmental issue, and obviously it has
environmental impacts, clear, but the fact of the matter is
these impacts are now cascading outside of the natural world
into our human systems, our economy, our communities, and whether
(15:36):
we can be strong even as a society, our health systems,
and so all of a sudden, if you pigeonhole it,
it seems something small and it's easier to identify as
something that is appropriate for the left, because they're the
ones that are the Greenies, they are over there. But
when instead you position it as well, this is impacting
our geopolitical security, or hey, this is impacting my wallet,
(15:59):
this is impact acting what I have to pay for
your health, my health exactly, and then it becomes, as
I said, a human issue. And we drive so hard
to help people understand that we're all in this boat
together and we all need to care.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
So when did you you established Sea Change Conversations in
twenty fourteen, you decided to create the nonprofit? What were
the steps to do that and why you decided to
You know, there are many ways to create a nonprofit
and its purpose, right, why give us the why in
(16:38):
terms of we know what propelled you to it, But
why did you decide to focus on conversations and really
what becomes education and awareness building? Ah?
Speaker 4 (16:53):
So, we, as I said, we wanted to find a
way to wake people up with turning them off. And
originally we were just focused on our home community of
Princeton Right Garden Club.
Speaker 3 (17:08):
And we realized that there are many people.
Speaker 4 (17:10):
Again, colleagues, friends, even loved ones who weren't really in
the group who didn't want to hear about it, didn't
want us to talk about it to the met a
cocktail party or over dinner or waiting in the school line.
Speaker 3 (17:25):
It's like a no go.
Speaker 4 (17:27):
And so we were like, Okay, how can we get
them into the conversation. And we realized that if we
replicated what had happened to us down in Washington, d C.
At these conferences where these outside experts came in and
talked about it and we listened because they weren't greenies,
they weren't environmentalists, they were someone different talking about it,
(17:50):
that maybe we'd have a chance.
Speaker 3 (17:51):
And so we started.
Speaker 4 (17:53):
Off just doing speaker series in Princeton and we served
really good wine and really good food and then invited
people to come and they came, and we had speakers
like the former governor Christine Whitman, who had also been
the head of the EPA, who was a Republican governor
who was very very savvy on climate change, in climate policy.
(18:13):
We had a rear admiral come in and talk about
the military perspective. We had had a risk strategy from
Gloman Sachs come in and talk about risk strategy assessment
and how we're not doing that well in the realm
of climate, and we had many others, but it created
that safe route in in Princeton. However, I was getting very,
(18:36):
very frustrated that people who came were not coming to
all of them and we're getting kind of a deep
dive in a specific SLVER issue, but not a three
sixty view. And that's when I wrote, with climate experts
and energy experts this PowerPoint primer or primmer if you will,
Yees brought forward and we originally showed it to the
(18:58):
garden clubs. They asked this to bring it to National.
We showed it to National and they were like, oh,
we really like this. We want you to open our
conferences down in DC for several years running because they
felt it set the table. It framed the issue in
a nonpartisan way, in an inclusive way that other speakers
could then build off of, and people who were there
(19:20):
as delegates hurt us and then invited us to come
to their communities and bring this conversation there.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
And at that time we.
Speaker 4 (19:29):
Decided we really need to expand and become a not
for profit because we needed to fundraise and able to
afford to travel the country even though those speakers are
all volunteers.
Speaker 3 (19:40):
Just we needed to be able.
Speaker 4 (19:42):
To maintain what we were doing, and so that kind
of led us to are not for profit status.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
So you raise money which basically funds the speaking programs,
right the primer and you have three levels of primers
from what I see on the website, which for our
listeners to see change conversations dot org. But why don't
you explain that more?
Speaker 3 (20:07):
So we.
Speaker 4 (20:10):
Raise the funds for several things. Now, we definitely to
help us get out to places that don't have the
budgets to really pay to bring us. So for our
travel costs, we often stay with our hosts to keep
the costs down.
Speaker 3 (20:25):
So we really do this.
Speaker 4 (20:26):
As I said, our volunteers speakers are all volunteers, and
so we do everything we can to keep our costs down.
But we also spend a lot of time on creating
follow up information that will continue the dialogue, continue that
conversation with audience members after we leave that market.
Speaker 3 (20:45):
So we have.
Speaker 4 (20:45):
Monthly newsletters of news of hope, news of concern. We
do blogs, we do webinars, We do all sorts of
education materials even in schools and for other groups. Again
and to bring this kind of non partisan, inclusive voice
to the to the broader discussion, if you will. So
(21:08):
we definitely do that. We also do tailor our primers.
We have different types of primers. We have those that
use health and focus just on how climate change impacts
our health and safety, because that's a really important way in.
And we also have primers that focus more on business
for business audiences because we've also been asked by many
(21:31):
companies to come in and talk to their employees to
help them understand why perhaps that company is pivoting to
a new strategy because of the realities of climate change.
And so, yes, we have the ability to tailor, and
we have several already tailored that we are currently presented presenting.
Speaker 2 (21:52):
So climate change is a big topic and then there's
a lot of little topics in it. You know what
I'm going to ask you, how you define I think
this is important Probace should have done in the beginning,
But how you define climate change? Because there are people
who deny it. Some people have called it global warming.
It's climate change. Who it's not. We're warming. There are
(22:14):
places that are raining more or muddy more. It's not
just about heat. It's about a lot of other things.
It involves food waste, which is a big topic with me.
I've covered it a lot. So it's you know, how
it's you said, it's a lifestyle. How would you define
it to someone who says it's not my problem. I
(22:36):
don't know if it's really true or not.
Speaker 4 (22:39):
Well, the way we define it often in our presentations
is it's simply the changes in our long term weather
patterns are hot, are cold, our rain or snow, even
our wind and water currents. And when we talk about it,
we talk about really the changes that we have started
to feel since the mid twentieth century. So think about
what was normal that then. It's very different than what
(23:02):
is normal today. And I think most people, even deniers,
are noticing that things are different, that the weather is
much less predictable, that it's kind of gotten on steroids.
Things that happened before are happening in a much more
powerful and dangerous way. Many people say natural cycles. Our
(23:26):
presentation addresses that straight on and helps them understand why
it's not. Many people say, oh, the climate's always been changing,
and we help them understand why today's changes is at
a rate that is really unprecedented and is being caused
by human activity, and.
Speaker 3 (23:44):
It's really straightforward.
Speaker 4 (23:47):
Once you lay out the science in a very nonpartisan,
comprehensive way, that part of climate change isn't that complicated.
Speaker 3 (23:56):
The part that is complicated.
Speaker 4 (23:58):
Is how the fact that we are changing our composition
of our atmosphere by putting up more greenhouse gases, primarily
by burning fossil fuels, and how that is cascating across
the natural systems, and how those changes are impacting, as
I said before, our human systems. And that gets quite complicated,
(24:20):
and there's lots of room for disagreement and pushback, and
we recognize that.
Speaker 3 (24:26):
But the science is.
Speaker 4 (24:27):
Pretty darn clear, and what we can see and experience
with our own eyes and in our own backyards is
getting clear as well. And so I think that really
helps us that once we lay it out in a
very welcoming, nonpartisan, here's the fact kind of way, we
really can get people to open their minds and go, wow,
(24:51):
this is something I need to care about.
Speaker 2 (24:54):
I think those are really good points. I mean, you know,
it becomes a hotbed because you've got companies that you know,
I grew up in Chattanooga examples. I grew up in Chattanooga, Tennessee.
When I grew up there in the seventies, it was
named one of the most polluted cities in the United States.
There was, you know, the Chicken poultry farm. The whole
city smelled, the processing farm. There was Schultz Tannery smell.
(25:17):
There was the Cisco. There was every kind of manufacturing
and they were dumping into the water and they were
admitting into the air, and it was filthy, and as
a result, many people moved away. Chattanooga had a bad reputation.
Nobody cared about it, and finally people woke up and
invested in turning things around to with the mission and
(25:41):
goal which they have succeeded doing to make it green
and invest in environmental programs and also invest in fest internet,
the things to make life make it more smoothly. And
now it is a very hot destination in Many people,
including a lot of Californians, are relocating there because it's
considered safer to live there now than California seems to
(26:03):
be burning up or falling into the ocean. And I
love California. So that's an example of cities and communities
becoming realizing there's a problem. But it took the bad
publicity to say, oh, we got to do something because
everybody was leaving, including me. That's an example.
Speaker 4 (26:21):
Well, I was just in Chattanooga this year. Presently, maybe
it was the last fall, but recently we were just
in Chattanooga, and it is a happening place. It is place,
and people are so proud of it and about the
fact it's becoming more of an economic powerhouse and a
place that people want to live. So you're absolutely right.
(26:43):
These things are tied directly to our quality of life
and quality of our local economy.
Speaker 3 (26:49):
I do think.
Speaker 4 (26:50):
I think that in the realm of climate change, though,
one of the misperceptions is that climate action has to
be painful in a sacrifice, and it's just not the
case anymore, right, And so you know, taking climate action
is actually super smart economically that yields so much in
(27:13):
return that it's really short sighted and expensive not to
And that's a message that we've been able to also
get out there that I think many people don't get
because they just get hammered, Oh it's going to cost
me more money. Oh it's going to drive up my
energy costs, And that's just a tiny sliver that's not
really the full picture at all.
Speaker 2 (27:32):
Well, also, you said your husband's in the relocation business.
It also impacts where companies set up their businesses and
where they relocate people and where people move. New Orleans
is suffering because it's lost a lot of people. It
lost a lot of people after Katrina, but it has
continued to have a declining population because it has an
image problem. It has a part, the good part of
(27:54):
the image, but the negative part is you know, hurricanes dirty.
We just had a massive blackout in the middle Memorial
Day weekend, one hundred thousand people out energy because they're
load shedding. You know, there are so many factors and
you see it and they need, you know, and the
government is a bit discombobulated on how to funnel those
(28:17):
funds to make it happen, and they're gonna have to.
It's going to be a wake up call. We thought
Katrina was. It wasn't and it has to be. But
I think one of the reasons it's going to be
a wake up call is that economically, people are leaving
and businesses aren't coming in. And that sometimes is the
spark when you realize the population is exiting and investment
is not coming in that's when people say we need
(28:38):
to do something, it should be other reasons as well,
like health and wellness and whatnot. But that's what I think,
that's what spurred Chad Nigga.
Speaker 4 (28:47):
Yeah, you know, and you're also absolutely right that businesses
are making decisions based on what is best for their
bottom line, where their facilities will be safe.
Speaker 3 (29:05):
And also where.
Speaker 4 (29:10):
Where they can get the type of energy that is
being mandated by many of their stakeholders, and especially if
they're international companies that they're mandated on the global scale
or by Europe and other people that are at the
forefront that are forcing these global companies to raise their standards.
(29:32):
And so companies have embraced clean energy and many of
the climate strategies that make sense. Unfortunately, we are still
in a place where it is a partisan hot potato
and tend to use it to whip up their base
(29:54):
on both sides, and that's just not helpful. But it
definitely still is not. As I mean we phrase this,
the vast majority of Americans are concerned about climate change.
The vast majority of Americans, like almost eighty percent, want
more support of clean energy, but we aren't seeing that
(30:15):
reflected in the political actions right, both at the federal
level today and at the state level in many areas.
Speaker 3 (30:23):
So there's a lag.
Speaker 4 (30:24):
There's a political lag from where the constituents really are,
where the action is.
Speaker 2 (30:30):
And the sad thing about that is that people give
up and they go, I give up. I can't you know,
they move into their little bubble and do nothing, and
you don't want that. So I here's my question to you.
What when you you and your volunteers go talking to
communities and you're in large communities and small I think
(30:50):
a lot of the people in the underschool what can
I really do? Is it really it's above anything I
can control because of the unfortunately the bureaucracy of layers
that change policy. What can people, individual people do or
small groups of people do in their own communities, because
(31:12):
there's really grassroots this is where you can make the
biggest steps. What can they do? What simple steps? Would
you say?
Speaker 4 (31:23):
So while you say that people are eager to do
things that I would say that while people are concerned,
they rank it quite low on their hierarchy of what
when they go to vote, So it may be fourteenth, seventeenth,
twenty ninth, so hello, it needs to get high.
Speaker 3 (31:40):
It needs to be one of the first.
Speaker 4 (31:42):
Things that you say is important to you when go
to vote, because it impacts the things that you do
care about most. Your family's health, your job, you know,
the safety and viability of your community. Immigration is greatly
impacted by climate change. So anything you care about almost
I mean, I know, I'm making a blanket statement is
(32:03):
impacted by climate joints, and we have to help people
connect those dots and bring it much further forward. It's
also a topic that's not spoken about a lot. Most
people don't hear it spoken about very much at all,
and so they aren't aware of just how strong the
support is amongst others to have climate action to become
(32:25):
a safer situation, and so raising your voice talking about
it is one of the most important things you can do.
Taking action on a local basis. There's all sorts of
ways of getting involved in helping smart smart and I'm
gonna say smart not just willy nilly action at the
(32:46):
local basis, from helping to ensure there's enough of a
green canopy and areas that currently are more exposed because
that is one way of mitigating that extraordinary heat that's coming,
to helping local regulations on water and land usage and
(33:07):
even on clean energy access and construction to enable that transition,
because sometimes we need to do an investment up front
to have a lot of savings on the other side,
and that's been a real hiccup for people who aren't
willing to make that investment in order to get those savings.
But that's where governments and policymakers can really play an
important part. But only if you raise your voice and
(33:29):
say it's important. And I want to just call out
Texas for a minute, because in Texas is a really
interesting place right now. They are the number one producer
of renewables. It's like they are the powerhouse of the
country right now, which is kind of shocking. But in
solar and when batteries, they are just making it happen.
(33:50):
And part of that is that they are deregulated energy
market and they really allow the market to push things forward,
and when solar and battery are pretty darn and expensive
and in many places less expensive than the fossil fuels.
So there was a real move a foot this just
last month to kind of corral the growth of renewables, saying, whoa,
(34:13):
we can't let that happen. We have to boost fossil
fuels and hinder renewables. And it passed one part of
their legislator, but didn't make it over the finish line.
And at the same time, what did make it over
the finish line, and let's see if it gets vetoed
is support of clean energy for distributed energy on rooftops.
Speaker 2 (34:36):
So interesting?
Speaker 3 (34:37):
What made that happen?
Speaker 4 (34:39):
That had to be pushed back from businesses and rate
payers and numbers are saying, hey.
Speaker 3 (34:45):
It's going to be more expensive. What are you doing? Stop?
Speaker 2 (34:49):
And it's the pocketbook.
Speaker 4 (34:50):
It matters economics, and there's the bottom line, and the
constituents' desire to have this.
Speaker 3 (34:56):
Energy was strong enough to stop this political push.
Speaker 2 (35:01):
It's interesting, correct.
Speaker 3 (35:02):
And we'll see if it's stay stout next year it
could be back.
Speaker 4 (35:05):
But I thought it was a fascinating tale because I
don't know that that could have happened five years ago,
ten years ago. I think it's because clean energy now
it's something people desire and is less expensive and gives
all these added benefits, and people are recognizing it.
Speaker 2 (35:20):
I think people just need to realize and understand the
benefits and that it's not beyond them that they have
to be part of a you know, part of solving it.
I mean, you know, apathy goes nowhere, advocacy does. And
you don't have to be an activist. You can be
an advocate and say I support it, but you know,
it's important to have awareness. I think that what might
(35:41):
be helpful on your website. It would be really good
to see some books suggested reading on this topic. I am,
as we were talking, one of the people I wish
and I'm going to ask you about environmental people in
time you'd love to have met. I would love to
have met Rachel Carson, Oh, yeah, who wrote Silent Spring,
and she ended up about pesticides and the impact on
(36:04):
health and later died of cancer. And we know that
the use of pesticides does directly impact your health. And
I have you know, I am a breast cancer survivor,
so I always wonder, you know, even though I have
the genetic gene if the air in New York after
(36:25):
September eleventh augmented the situation because it was very toxic
air and a lot of people developed cancer after that.
And I always wonder because I was living fairly close
to ground zero on fourteenth Street, So you wonder about that,
but I'd like to have met her. But I think
you know, I've made a note to read that book.
I've actually never read it. I've only heard about it,
(36:48):
which is why I thought reading lists would be helpful
to understand the impact. Who what, Who in the world
of environmental advocacy or activism would you like to meet
and why or do you respect? Right now? Why?
Speaker 4 (37:03):
Wow, that's a tough question.
Speaker 3 (37:04):
Well, one I would.
Speaker 4 (37:05):
Say is Heyhoe, Catherine Hayho Okay, the chief scientist of
the Nature CONCERNCY. Now, she is a climate scientist who
is also an evangelical that she hails from Texas. I
think she was Canadian originally, but now she's been living
in Texas and she is one of those people who
(37:28):
can connect the dots in a really great way. I mean,
she's a scientist, but be she has the compassion to
reach across the aisle, to reach people who see things differently,
and to even reach to and evangelicals, which is a
group that has historically uh to embrace climate change. Yeah,
(37:51):
and in some cases reticent to even believe that. You know,
the Earth is as old as many scientists say it is.
But think it'stead that I believe started like around two
thousand years ago. Any of your evangelical listeners can correct me,
which which makes it hard for some of our slides,
because we go back and rush, you know, eight hundred
thousand years ago, twenty thousand goes to how aberrant today
(38:13):
is to help them understand. But Katherine Hahoe has a
book called Saving Nature, which is a wonderful book. And
Catherine herself is just a force of nature and one
that is so well respected on the international stage, so
she would definitely be someone I interested.
Speaker 2 (38:32):
I'll look her up. I'm not familiar with her.
Speaker 4 (38:35):
And if you think about what we're doing, fossil fuels
are just bits of plant and animal manner that fell
to the earth millions of years ago, got silted over
and with time heat and pressure pulled deep underground and
turned into pools of elemental carbon, which we call oil,
natural gas, and coal. It was deep underground, and then
(38:57):
humans came and said, really rich and energy portable, really storable,
I'm going to use it, and they created this vibrant
economy that we all have benefited from. But they were
taking in that carbon that was deep underground over millions
and millions of years. I started pumping it up in
the atmosphere at alarmingly fast rates, as much as forty
tons of carbon every single year. So that is upsetting
(39:20):
the balance that always existed, and I don't think people
have computed that in their brains that what we've done
is kind of push nature out of the balance that
has existed since human civilization has been on the planet.
Speaker 2 (39:32):
Actually, it's a simple in summarizing that. It's an imbalance
of nature when nature becomes inbound, and if you look
at it, it's like your body. When your body becomes
toxic and imbalanced, you get sick.
Speaker 4 (39:51):
Yeah, I guess you would would say that. I guess
what I would say is we're putting it into a
different balance, and one that our species isn't suited for,
because nature goes in and out of different balances all
the time. And the fact that she happens to have
lingered at the sixty degrees fahrenheit kind of typical temperature
for the last ten thousand years was lucky for us
(40:14):
because it's really good for our species. But it's not
like that's where nature wants to revert back to. So
if we knock the temperatures up to higher temperatures. It's
not like nature wants to come back to that balance point.
So I guess, I guess you're right and thinking that
(40:34):
we're making her sick, But I think it's more that
we're knocking her into a space that is no longer
suitable for us.
Speaker 2 (40:44):
But that's a great way to explain it to people
that it's beyond them for some when you get into
science and the word fossil fuel, which I quickly looked
up while you were talking, because there are a lot
of people who don't know what fossil fuel is. It's
you know, there are terms that are confusing, which also
would be helpful, is like what the terms mean, because
I looked up a few while we were talking, because
(41:07):
you want to use them correctly, but you want to
better understand what carbon emissions is. You know, it's bad,
but what really is it? You know, how is it?
How is it created? And why is it bad? You know,
because people talk about cows and the carbon emission, you know,
on and on and on, and I think, uh, delineating
it and explaining it, which you can do through communication,
(41:28):
is critical because otherwise people kind of shut down because
they don't understand right, well.
Speaker 4 (41:35):
So let me let me then give your audience a
tiny little bit of knowledge on that. So, sure, greenhouse
gases are critically important to making the planet habitable. Without them,
were totally frozen. But they only make up a teeny
tiny portion of our atmosphere, less than one percent. And
(41:59):
when we talk about green house gases, primarily are talking
about carbon dioxide, methane, nitrous oxide, and even water vapor,
which goes up and down really really fast. So without
these greenhouse gases, as I said, we wouldn't have enough
of the solar radiance captured to make us livable. And
(42:21):
because there's so few of them, when we add to
them by burning fossil feels really fast.
Speaker 3 (42:29):
We're kind of we call it thickening the.
Speaker 4 (42:32):
Blanket, making them more insulating, if you will, so let
me rephrase this, Let me stop.
Speaker 3 (42:41):
This isn't good. Let me rephrase this.
Speaker 4 (42:43):
Okay, So let me explain what greenhouse gases are.
Speaker 3 (42:47):
Greenhouse gases are literally a tiny.
Speaker 4 (42:51):
Portion of our atmosphere that is comprised of these specific
gases like carbon dioxide, methane, nitros oxide, and even vapor.
Out of them, we would have a frozen planet. But
when we add to them, they simply do their jobs
too well, and that heats up the earth further and
(43:12):
adds energy into our climate systems.
Speaker 2 (43:14):
You did a very good job explaining it, and I
think you know we were cutting towards the end of
the conversation here, but I think it's important to underscore
a couple of things. Kathleen begins you. You had a
prior life. It was successful. You chose to move into
another dimension of it through your volunteerism, which I think
(43:36):
is really in your community activities that you did after
you left your full time job to care for your family.
You found a purpose and passion to help create conversations
around something that is important to all of us, which
is climate change. It's not political, it's not actism. Its
awareness and advocacy to help people in different communities understand
(44:02):
that climate change is going to impact you everyone, all
of us, whether it's your health, your safety, your environment,
your pocket book, your ability to find work if you
are going somewhere and the jobs are ount because people
go elsewhere, it basically affects your life. And if you
(44:25):
think it doesn't, you really are mistaken. And it's time
to understand it. Even if you understand it in the
basic way, like you explain that, it is important because
even long after you and I are gone, you've got children.
It will impact them. And really, at the end of
the day, you know, you want to leave the world
in a better place.
Speaker 4 (44:47):
Yes, indeed, I think all of us want to leave
the world at least as good as we were given
it for our kids exactly. And that's a universal feeling
really across the island and across the and I think
that is one of the driving forces that gets people
to the table to understand this risk.
Speaker 2 (45:05):
Right well, you know, thank you for making the comedy,
pushing the conversation forward, because without that important skill of communication,
it would just go under the you know, into the heap,
as they say, with with other waste and things that
people do. Oh, that's messy. I don't want to talk
(45:26):
about it. No, it's not. It is messy, and you
do want to talk about it. And sometimes it's very
important to talk about very messy, difficult things so that
we can understand how they impact us. So we've been
talking to we're going to you know, Kathleen Biggins, who
has founded Sea Change, It's Sea Dash Change Conversations dot org.
It is a nonprofit and you can actually go on
(45:46):
the site and ask to have a speaker come to you.
You've talked to twenty two thousand people in thirty thirty
three states. It looks like it looks like Alabama needs
some work here, Alabama and most of the Midway in
the Rocky Mountains could use some help. But it's good
to see how far you have come. Congratulations on this,
(46:07):
and I wish you all the best moving the conversation
forward even more.
Speaker 3 (46:12):
Oh, thank you, Melanie. It's been a.
Speaker 2 (46:14):
Pleasure, absolutely so you've been listening to Fearless Fabulous you.
I will post this show on my site, my page
and on LinkedIn and everywhere else to share it with
you as well. And I hope this has really raised
your awareness but also your idea of why it matters.
(46:35):
Because it does. And as I always like to say
on the show at the end, you know you have
one life. You can choose to live it on your
terms or on terms that people set for you. I
chose a long time ago to live on my terms
and I choose fearless and fabulous, and I hope you
do too. Thank you, Thank you.
Speaker 4 (47:00):
The St.
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