October 4, 2023 • 41 mins
The U.S. First Amendment protects freedom of speech in all forms of communication. Yet public-school book bans have increased by 33% according to PEN America. Reading improves a child's language and literacy skills and grade averages. Reading books on a diverse range of topics helps nurture an open mind, a greater connection and a healthy curiosity. Kyle Zimmer, cofounder/CEO of nonprofit First Book, discusses the organization's work distributing books to children in under-resourced communities.
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Fearless Fabulous You Radio Show is broadcast on W4WN Radio - Women 4 Women Network (www.w4wn.com) part of Talk 4 Radio (www.talk4radio.com) on the Talk 4 Media Network (www.talk4media.com).
Fearless Fabulous You Podcast is also available on Talk 4 Podcasting (www.talk4podcasting.com), iHeartRadio, Amazon Music, Pandora, Spotify, Audible, and over 100 other podcast outlets.
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W four WN Radio. Hello,and welcome to Fearless Fabulous You. I
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am your host, Melanio And thisis a beautiful October day, twenty twenty
three. We are in the firstweek of October, which is a very
big month in my life because it'sBreast cancer Awareness Month, is mental health
awareness, Suicide Awareness month. It'sin the world of wine, it's the
super Bowl of the wine world becauseeverybody's finishing harvest and out selling wines.
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And I'm heading to New York shortly. And it's also this week October one
through seven, Mark's band Books Week. Let me just talk about this because
I'm the daughter of two authors.I am an author I'm a passionate reader.
I started reading as a young girlat h two, believe it or
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not, phonetically, and spend alot of time in my local public library.
Very proud of my library card.So get this. What are these
celebrated authors have in common? EllenHopkins a New York Times bestseller, Tony
Morrison a Nobel Prize winner, JohnGreen a Michael L. Prince Award winner
and New York Times bestseller, andSarah Moss Moss also a New York Times
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bestseller. This is just a fewauthors. Their books were among the top
eleven most books of the twenty twentytwo to twenty twenty three school year,
according to penn America. In fact, this organization reports that the number of
public school bands across the country increasedby thirty three percent in the twenty twenty
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two to twenty three school year comparedto twenty twenty one twenty two. That's
over three thousand books, three thousandand three hundred and sixty two books,
accurately affecting one hundred and fifty onethousand, five hundred and fifty seven unique
titles. It impacts the work ofone thousand, four hundred and eighty authors,
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illustrators, and translators. So it'snot just about banning books. It's
a banning freedom of speech, whichis the First Amendment, and it's affecting
people's livelihoods. So guess what stateis now the number one state for book
bans? Sunny Florida. Yeah,Sunny Florida has a very cloudy of impact
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on books and it now exceeds Texasfor the most banned books in school.
Don't you ever wonder why in anation where we have a constitution where the
First Amendment protects freedom of speech,that we're banning books. That's censorship and
the First Amendment doesn't. While itisn't very specific about freedom of speech,
it basically guarantees the right to expressthat disent information on a basic level.
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That means you can express opinion,even if unpopular. But it protects all
forms of communication, from speech toart to other media. Okay, this
is from the American Library Association,And I love librarians. Like I said,
I spent my early and very formativeyears hanging out alone or with groups
in libraries while my mother taught classand she was a communications specialist, and
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we all wrote books in my familyand reread. And I'm a big believer
that children need to be reading atan early age and reading from a booklist
that is diverse and expands their minds. So we're going to dress this today
why reading is, as they say, fundamental, and why it needs to
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happen at an early age, andhow we as concerned active women can make
sure that freedom of speech is protected, that we have access to good books
for children of all ages and adults, because this is just a children's thing.
My guest is Kyle Zimmer. Sheis a co founder and key principle
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for First Book. It's a Firstbookdot org. It's a nonprofit she created
and co found in nineteen ninety twoto help further equal access to quality education.
And it is goal is well,she'll discuss it, but it is
about getting books to more children inlow income areas so they have the fundamental
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right to be able to read andread books that can be available to the
of all topics. And I haveother people deciding what you can and can't
read. So Kyle Zimmer, welcometo Fearless Fabulous. You thank you so
much, Melanie. It's lovely tobe here. I think your whole background
is interesting each Obviously you can tellI'm passionate about this topic because I am
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an author, I am a reader, and I do believe highly education is
the best form of getting people tobe their best. You are actually come
from the law background. You havea really amazing career, and you had
an AHA moment in nineteen eighty volunteeringat a soup kitchen. Thank you for
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doing that in Washington, d C. What was that aha moment? Yeah,
it was actually in the late,very late eighties, and it was
I was a lawyer here in Washington, as you say, and I was,
you know, and the town wasunder siege, the crack epidemic had
hit, and violence was on therise. And I was raised that you
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don't sit a fight like that out, that you roll your sleeves up and
you go help your hometown. SoI as you as you indicated, I
started reading with kids after work ata soup kitchen and really just wanted to
be part of, you know,strengthening the community. But what I began
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to understand is that is how scarcebooks are in the lives of kids in
need, obviously not just in Washingtonbut nationwide, and and it you know,
it's obviously it turned into my wholelife. Well, it's a it's
a good luck to turn into becauseI've lived all over I lived in Washington,
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I think before the crowd was therein the early eighties, and I've
lived in New York for many manyyears, lived in the rural South and
the not so rural South, andI think, you know, my concern
about I'm missing a linger on theband books thing now is that it seems
to be it is on the increase. The American Library Association documented one two
hundred and sixty nine demands to censorlibrary books and resources in twenty twenty two
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that there were that's like huge.It's also doubles the doubles the number of
books reported in twenty twenty one.So we're seeing fairly large increases in censorship.
And of those titles, the massmajority were written by members of the
lgbt QIA community or about black people, indigenous and people of color. And
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when I read I read, Iwent on pan America. I actually joined
pen America recently because I was verythinking about this whole topic. Great organization,
yeah it is, and you knowthey're doing great things, and you
know it concerns me because it basicallyskews how we think we are not providing
equal access to an open mind.Open mind to me, and open mind
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is an open book, is opento mind. Open a book, open
to mind, and by shutting abook, you're closing a mind. And
it's clearly skewed. I was readingsome of the titles, which are fairly
well known, some of them soshocking, and it's everything from a curse
word to a use of a drugto basically a sexual You know what's fairly
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scary about it is that a lotof these books reflect the reality of life.
So, yeah, people are doingdrugs, people are living in poverty,
people are doing a lot of notgreat things right now, but they're
also doing good things, but we'renot allowing that to go on paper.
And a lot of these books reflectour therapeutic memoirs that people are writing to
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share their life and how they cameout of it. So what are your
thoughts on all this? Well,I think you know, let me say
right up front, I am aparent and I have two great young men
who are my sons, and Irecognize and honor a parent's right to oversee
what their kids are reading and doing. Of course, but where that right
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ends is when it intersects with otherpeople's rights to oversee their children and what
they're reading and doing. And sofor me, at the sort of fundamental
level, you know, I thinkthat book bands limit parental rights because it's
a small number of parents making makingdecisions for the entire school or the entire
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community in the case of the library. And that is patently wrong, you
know, and flies in the faceas you rightly reported the First Amendment.
This is not how this country wasformed. And and frankly, when you
look back over human history, thepeople who have book bands are not censorship
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or either of those. They're notnew. This is not a new thing.
But every time there's a group ofpeople that takes up that particular banner,
they are never on the side ofelevating humanity and of equal access to
education, to quality education, andequal opportunity. It's never that's never hand
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in glove with a book ban SoI think for a lot of reasons,
fundamentally, it goes against who weare as a country and who we want
to be, you know. SoI'm with you, heart and soul,
Melanie. It's interesting my mother,when she was bedridden and dying, asked
me to order she read book.I mean, I come from a seriously
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big reading family. One hundreds andhundreds of books here that I've got to
now donate. And I'm holding myhand mouse Art Spiegelman's Mouse, which is
about the Holocaust. Okay, youknow, because there are people who don't
want that books about the Holocaust,and one movies because I don't want to.
And you know, it's messy,it's dirty, it's awful, but
it happens. Life is messy,right, It certainly is. It certainly
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is. And and you know,one one thing, if I may,
I think there's uh, there's partof this narrative that is that that is
false. It becomes a false narrative, and that is that there's pornography.
You know, that word is thrownaround and that's just not true. Like
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you can you know, there isno there is no responsible adult who is
suggesting that pornography is appropriate for children. There's no one responsible who's saying that.
And so, but that's one ofthe sort of Molotov cocktail words that
gets thrown into this debate even thoughit doesn't apply, it's not real,
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but it shuts down the debate,and I think we have to be strong
and vocal on our side of thisconversation to say, of course pornography is
not appropriate for kids, but whatyou determine is over a line does not
make it pornographic, and that kidsand their families and very highly trained,
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committed educators, that's who should beinvolved in this discussion. That's who should
be driving it. And so Ido think we have to get better as
individuals in stepping up and calling itout, because I think we've all been
to quiet and thinking that, well, it's just a small number of people
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or a small number of communities.And I've got some research that we've performed
that I want to share with youand your listeners because I think it speaks
very much to to you know,to this set of issues. Sure Ted,
I'd love to hear about it.Sure What. We ran to two
studies, and we really spent alot of time and consideration on this,
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because you know, the debate oftenis may I just say fact free,
you know when you're listening to advocatesof book bands, and so we really
wanted to inject actual data of what'sgoing on in classrooms, and so in
one study that we released just recentlyat Clinton Global Initiative two weeks ago is
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a six month nationwide pilot study wherewe identified four hundred and fifty classrooms and
we infused those classrooms with very highquality, diverse children's books, and then
we sat back and watched what happenedfor those kids, and the results are
very, very compelling. What welearned is that the collectively the number of
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hours that kids spent reading in thoseclassroom rooms jumped up by four hours per
week, and their academics improved.In fact, the classrooms we studied,
the average reading scores jumped up bythree percent over nationally expected averages. And
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so what we see, even duringa six month window is that kids are
more engaged in reading, their academicsare beginning to show an upward turn,
you know. And this is ina country where we have you know,
fourth graders who are African American,Latino and Native who are eighty four percent
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non proficient in their reading. It'sthe line goes between eighty percent and eighty
four percent. This is a fivealarm fire. We should be using every
tool we have to engage kids inreading to capture their me imagination it's critical
to them, to our communities,to our democracy, and our economy.
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So you can tell I'm just aspassionate as you are about these things.
I feel like we, each oneof us has a critical stake in the
future of this absolutely. And youknow it's funny. Parents will allow their
kids to be on social media andway too much social media, and I
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think that's also impacting quality reading time. There should be more reading and discussion
time in schools and around the table, but that doesn't seem to be happening
because we've all been to I'm nota parent, but I've been to plenty
of dinner parties where I see thekids just like you know, bowed down,
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their postures, already disappearing over theirtheir iPhones or whatever their mobile phone
is. You see it everywhere,and it's like, I get my heart
warms when I travel, and Itravel a lot and I see a child
holding a book. I'll tell yousomething interesting, Kyle. I travel to
Europe a lot, and I andto rule like wine areas, and I've
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seen more children. Sometimes the parentswill bring their children with them because you
know, there's not childcare, andthe kids will be reading books interesting and
I'm wondering, and I don't know, but I would be curious to find
out where the United States sits.I know, I know overall adult literacy
is very high in the United States, souse. I was reading up before
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the show. But I'm curious howwe compared to other countries in terms of
promoting and nurturing reading among children.You know, I don't know that I
have the answer for you on that, on the comparative analysis. It is
a fascinating question. Oh, becausealso it translates into productivity down the road.
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So I'm curious about that. Soyou co founded first book, and
i'd love to know you talked aboutyour research study, talk about some of
the other initiatives that you have beendoing since the founding. And I mean
this is like twenty years. Well, no, it's that's what he is,
like forty years. We just arein our thirty second year. I'm
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amazed to report and we've done alot of great work. Only you know
what we it's a five. It'sa nonprofit social enterprise, which means that
it's a nonprofit and we steal somestrategies from the for profit side of the
universe to make sure that our workis efficient and as effective as it possibly
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can be, and we we reallylook at our work. The centerpiece is
listening. It's listening. We havea community, an online community of over
five hundred and seventy five thousand members. These are educators in Title I schools,
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they are or Title one eligible schools. They're in preschools and after schools
and healthcare settings and libraries and homelessshelters in every imaginable place. Because we
believe that educational equity requires three hundredand sixty degree surround sound for kids,
and we want to be supporting existingorganizations in communities all over the country.
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So this community is the largest ofits kind of adults in the lives of
kids in need. It's the largestin North America. And we really listen
to what they need, what they'reworried about, what's keeping them up at
night, and responding to that.We have built three major pillars. One
is called First Book Research and Insights, and it's our research arm and the
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study I just described to you aboutthe impact of diverse books in the classroom
that's a product of First Book Researchand Insights. We do about twenty studies
a year and for a huge rangeof topics also to guide our work and
make sure that our work is effectiveand that it's we're doing as much as
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we possibly can. The second iscalled the Accelerator, the First Book Accelerator,
and it's a program where as wehear from our community that, for
example, they do not feel trainedin mental health issues, and you know,
post COVID, all of us areaware that kids are struggling with mental
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health issues, and educators that's notusually part of their fundamental training when they're
getting their degree. So we recognizethat we listen to them, and through
the Accelerator, we reach outside xwho are really the thought leaders in those
critical topics, and we build resourcesand connections between our community and these thought
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leaders to make sure that they're gettingas much as we can give them the
on the challenges they have. Thethird pillar is called the First Book Marketplace
and it's a nonprofit e commerce site. We are we move fifteen sixteen million
books annually through this site. Theyare either for free or they're at very
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low cost. In addition to inaddition to books, we do ebooks.
Of course, we do backpacks andart supplies and you know, all kinds
of things that we make available forfree or at the lowest possible cost.
And that's sort of a flyover ofall of our programs. I think that's
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great, you know, I wishyou know it. It starts obviously with
the parenting and encouraging reading, whichthe parents don't read, the kids are
not going to read. Here's aproblem. And then obviously in in in
schools we're reading was you know essential, I mean that was part of what
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you learned or I mean when Iwas at school, reading was a big
deal. I don't know what it'slike now because everybody's a computers, but
I, you know, love computersand whatnot. But I still love the
smell and feel of a library book. You know, whenever I get I
get pitched books all the time.Here's here's the PDIA And I'm like,
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you know what, I don't enjoysitting in my bed with my computer reading
a book. That just doesn't workwith me. I have to hold a
book and hit the feel and writing, and I like to tag the pages
and you know, and you know, I feel that we had newspapers too,
even though it has seemed to haveany But I think it's so important
to not give up on certain things. It also hurts authors and it's noted,
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it hurts illustrated. I mean there'sa whole industry behind it that gets
impacted with bank books. It's reallyquite And the sad thing is the banned
books are all as I said,you know, they're all topics that are
They're all topics that you can findon Netflix and many come in streaming channels.
Yeah yeah, yeah. As Ithink about it, I mean I
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get scarier. You know, there'sfair issues more available in other areas,
including social media. So we're takingsomething that really is in a better place
to learn and putting it aside.And I'm amazed by it, because who
are we to be, you know. I mean it's true parents can just
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you know, have a say intheir children's lives. But this is about
public opinion and community and and andbanning things that should be available to all.
Uh. And that's a problem,and it's a big, it's a
scary problem, and I think weneed to underscore this isn't this isn't about
politics. This is about That's right. I think that's really important. Some
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people go all your you know,it's not about politics, everybody, It's
about common sense and freedom of speechand education. And you know, Melanie,
if I made the uh, there'sone group of people who on your
list of people to worry about.In addition to authors and illustrators and others,
UH is teachers and first book.Just yesterday we first Book Research and
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Insights, we released a second studythat was a survey of fifteen hundred educators
and we asked them, in part, how do you know, how do
you feel about book bands and whatimpact are they having on your teaching,
on your profession, on your youknow, on the kids in your classroom.
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And while only one third of themof the respondents said that there were
book bands in their districts, seventyone person of them said that they feel
that book banning undermines their expertise andmakes them feel distrusted and increases their stress.
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So that means that the splash effect, the chilling effects of this kind
of message, this kind of movement, if you will, on book banning,
it is undercutting our kids because asI said, the earlier study showed
that that you know is a powertool for children, but it's also undercutting
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the teachers who are dedicated, underpaid, and who are it's already a profession
that's in crisis, and we're onemore time throwing something like this at them.
It's a big distraction. It's notgood. Yeah, you know,
the teachers. You know, I'vealways felt that every high paid CEO should
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be tithing a percentage of his highpaid salary to teachers. Don't get me
started on billionaires who spend all theirmoney going to the moon, sending rockets
to the moon when they need todeal with situations on Earth. You know,
I don't get it. I'll neverget it. I don't have to
say it, and I mean myvoices are very swallowing. Called vote but
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doesn't really matter because these are billionairesand they seem to do whatever they want.
But we should be supporting public education, all education, but specific public
education, but teachers. You know, I'm constantly amazed, Kyle when I
hear that teachers are buying supplies outof their own pocket. I how about
that? Yeah? Yeah, Ilive in I now live in I lived
in New York for many years cityand I live in Chattanooga, Tennessee.
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As I said, my mother wasa longtime educator and we have she died
and we have lots of things Tozoni, and I'm donating a lot of stuff
to the Hamilton County Schools because,you know, anything I can to help
them, and I have. I'vebeen blessed with large collection of books,
and it's so funny. There's alittle pub, there's one of those little
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those little library you neighborhood libraries.I go with an armload of books and
stock it. Every time I tryto work out. My husband's like,
really it's empty. I'm gonna gopull some more books because I'm swimming for
books. It's tabulous, so thatmeans people are picking them up and reading
them. Yeah, I'm a bigsupporter of those little I love big libraries.
I don't neighborhood wines. You know. Yeah, yes, it's like
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so, you know, this isa great enterprise. What can people who
are listening most of my audiences women, They may or man you mothers,
but they're women, and women havea powerful voice now in this country.
What can we all be doing tomove the dial forward on this topic?
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Well, I think there are anumber of things. Uh. First of
all, I think we all andI am including myself in this, we
need to collectively get up off ourcouches and make our voices heard. And
I think, you know, Ithink people are hesitant because they don't want
to be part of a fistfight,you know, in front of the board
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of education or whatever. But thisis what happens in schools. And I've
poked around on this and I knowit to be true. Principles for example,
or school board. People they hearfrom let's say five or ten people
who are adamant about book bands promotingbook bands, and they do not hear
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from the other side of the ledgerare they don't hear, And so they're
standing there with ten phone calls onone side of the balance and dead silence
on the other. And that isa problem because the loudest voice in this
case, the only voice, isgoing to be the one that takes the
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day. And you don't have tohave a kid in the school. You
don't have to like you can callthe principle, you can call the board
of education, folks, and whoeverthe authorities are up the line, and
each you know, districts are organizedin different ways, and just say I
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want to lob in, I wantto register that I live in your area.
I oppose book bands, And becauseI know that these books are critical
for our children. It's critical forthem to see themselves, it's critical for
them to see others. And that'sabout all you have to say. But
I think we collectively need to actand we need our voices to be heard.
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So that's one. Secondly, ifI can promote First Book for a
minute. We as proud as Iam of having over five hundred and seventy
five thousand educators signed up with us. It's not nearly an enough. So
if any of your listeners, excuseme, if any of your listeners have
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people in their lives who are teachersor involved in public schools that are Title
one or Title one eligible, orthey're volunteering perhaps through their church in a
homeless shelter or in a soup kitchenor anything like that, please ask them
to get those organizations signed up withus. It's free, there is no
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obligation, and it takes about sevenminutes online to sign up. And so
because the bigger we are, themore we can bring that market strength and
lower the cost of the great booksthat we're talking about. And you can
find us at firstbook dotorg. That'sgreat. You know, let's face it,
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words matter, whether you speak them, write them. And you know,
not taking action and not listening andnot speaking up is a powerful statement
right there. You know, it'sreally important if you feel something or see
something, say something, and Iwant to you know, I mentioned that,
you know, Florida is out passedTexas as book band, but this
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is not just about Florida and Texas. And again it's not about politics.
I'm living in tennis. It's everystate. So I'm living in Tennessee now
and the Tennessee and Nashville, Tennesseeand reported in July that in Tennessee there's
about five hundred band books, soit's across the nation and they tend to
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be similar in in topics, basicallyanything that's perceived as going against conventional norm,
which is like a lot of things, because we are also supposed to
be promoting being yourself and being anindividual. But you know, unfortunately some
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people they can't share that. It'sso interesting, Kyle. I've had this
show now for it's ten years,okay, and I've interviewed a lot of
authors who have shared gripping, frighteningstories about their lives in books ranging from
sexual abuse to suicide attempts to recoveringfrom drug use to you name it,
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and they the books have by writingwhat they went through, they have become
stronger people and it helps with otherpeople going through similar situations who are not
ready to speak up. So,you know, books are so important for
children to opening their minds but alsodeveloping language skills. Yeah, and we
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are sadly. My mother was aspeech of communications specialist and language skills.
She bemoaned the fact that language skillsare worse than ever now and I think
we forget how important the ability tospeak and communicate is and how books can
really make that happen and further thatin a very positive way. Well,
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I think it's also important, andI'm sure that you agree with this,
that people who kids who are notfrom those cultures, or people who've been
fortunate enough not to have catastrophic lifeexperiences. You know, I think it's
it's critically important because it gives usthat window into another person's experience, another
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person's race or culture or just life, you know, life tragedies in some
cases. And I think sometimes weas a country, we when we can
divide a problem into a US versusthem, we're never very good at solving
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those very quickly, you know.And in this case, some of the
narrative I have seen has been sortof people suggesting that this that Latia I'm
making up an example, Latino authorsare important only for Latino kids, and
they are certainly important for Latino kids, of course they are, yes,
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yes, But the truth is isthat any child from any ethnic background,
from any financial background, who growsup without being exposed to other people's lives,
other people's cultures, they are goingto be at a huge disadvantage when
they step out onto the grander stagebecause our country and our world is getting
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dramatically more diverse in experience and inculture and ability and everything else. And
imagine if you have no connection toany of that and you are trying to
start your life as a young person, that's a huge disadvantage. So I
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desperately want those diverse books in thehands of kids who are who have been
underrepresented, so they can see theircultures and their families. Of course,
but oh my goodness, we allneed to be more empathetic, We need
to be more graceful with each other, and this is a prime way for
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us to share those experiences. Absolutely, and I think these are such important
points. So, Kyle, you'redoing some great work. You know,
we have a little bit of timeleft. I have three questions. One,
what was the first book you readas a child that really resonated with
you? Isn't that such a greatquestion? You know, I distinctly I
(34:58):
was lucky like you to have alot of books in my home growing up,
and I spent a big chunk ofmy childhood on the linoleum floor in
the public library. Like you,I very distinctly remember reading The Adventures of
Winnie the Pooh, the original one, the big thick one, and I
was determined to go page by pagewhen I was quite little on that and
(35:22):
I still have that copy. Ohyou know what, I'm so endeared by
that, Kyle, because I'm movedinto my mother's house to care for and
I'm sleeping in my childhood bedroom still, and the only books I kept after
we had to pack up hundreds ofbooks are all my Winny the Poos.
I have my original Winnyo. Andbecause I believe everybody is a character in
(35:45):
Pooh, my husband is Quary forRobin, and I think I'm big Litter,
the wise old owl, but Ithink everybody is a character Winny the
Pooh. I think it's a seminalbooks. The other ones I have or
not is when I was six,I found that and all my Mary Poppin's
books and My Wizard of Oz,which The Wizard of Oz is the book
(36:08):
that probably has affected me more thanany other book in life. Fabulous.
Yeah, because when I wrote mybook on getting through cancer, it was
basically envisioned by the Wizard of OzWaiting to get out of You know,
why do I go back to Kansasas an adult? What are you reading
that is exciting you? You know, I read. I'm kind of all
(36:30):
over the map with my reading.I just finished a book about the history
of Ireland called We Didn't Know Ourselvesand it was the history of Ireland from
like nineteen fifty to present, andthat was stunning. My family has deep
(36:51):
Virush roots, so I was interestedin that. And I'll tell you I
reread The Good Earth by Pearl recently, and I have a great copy of
that book. It's always been oneof my favorites, and I reread it
and it's a wonderful thing to do. Because, of course, at sixty
(37:13):
two, I have a very differentslant on the way that book plays in
my mind than I did when Iwas nineteen, So it's kind of fun
to go back to those stories.For me, I think we're reading is
important. I have that book inthis library in my office. The book
that when I became older, Iwas still in high school, but that's
still resonated with me and I actuallytalked about on last week's show was Iron
(37:38):
Rand's The Virtue of Selfishness. AlsoThe Fountainhead, which resonated with me even
today when I created Envision this showand Fearless Fabulous you about how individuality is
so important versus conventionality, and thatbeing selfish is not a bad thing because
(37:59):
you need to tell of yourself andyour self care. So those books stay
with me forever. And Your ErroneousZones by doctor Dwayne Weyer, you know,
sometimes you go back and reread them. But I do encourage everybody listening
to if you have childhood books,go back and read them. When my
(38:20):
mother died, I referenced The GivingTree. Oh uh huh, another book
that I reread frequently because it's sucha learning lesson in there about giving but
you know, taking and giving.So I think everybody needs to go back
and reread certain books at different stagesof your life. It's very interesting.
(38:42):
Absolutely, well, we're at theend of the show. It's really been
a pleasure. Again. We've beentalking with Kyle Zimmer. The organization is
firstbook dot org and you can getinvolved by visiting that website. There's no
cost. But what you're doing isyou're supporting the fundamentals of freedom of speech,
literacy, education and opening people's mindsbecause, as I say, read
(39:05):
my lips, open a book andyou'll open a mind and start young with
children because it stays with you forever. Kyle and I just talked about books
that we were reading as children,as young girls that still resonate with us.
Reading is such an important form ofeducation, communication, enlightenment and helping
(39:25):
people grow. So we need tonurture that and make sure that we protect
those rights. Yeah always, Kyle, thank you so much for joining me.
Kyle Zimmer, first book on Fearlessfabulous you thank you so much.
Melanie, what a wonderful time.Well, I think it's such an important
(39:46):
topic and for all of you listening, go get a library card. They're
free, and sit down and curlup and read a book and do it
and encourage your kids as well,because you will find peace and calm and
relaxation. And it's better than justconstantly clicking and clicking and streaming and scrolling.
(40:07):
It really is. I do itall the time away from everything to
relax. You've been listening to anotheredition of Fearless Fabulous You as usual.
My message is that you have thechoice in life to live how you want
and not live by other people's terms. Choose life on your terms and choose
fearless and fabulous, and do itin a way that helps lift others up
(40:28):
with you. Thank you. I'mMelanie Young, follow me, I'm Melanie
Fabulous. And you can listen tothis show on your favorite podcast platform,
including all the ones that are hugelike iHeart Spotify, Apple. So do
it and share it and thank youand thank you again, Kyle. Thanks
so much they had with the Fam.
The topics and opinions expressed on thefollowing show are solely those of the hosts
and their guests, and not thoseof W four WN Radio It's employees or
affiliates. We make no recommendations orendorsement for radio show programs, services,
or products mentioned on air or onour web. No liability, explicit or
implied shall be extended to W fourWN Radio It's employees or affiliates. Any
questions or comment should be directed tothose show hosts. Thank you for choosing
(00:22):
W four WN Radio. Hello,and welcome to Fearless Fabulous You. I
(00:47):
am your host, Melanio And thisis a beautiful October day, twenty twenty
three. We are in the firstweek of October, which is a very
big month in my life because it'sBreast cancer Awareness Month, is mental health
awareness, Suicide Awareness month. It'sin the world of wine, it's the
super Bowl of the wine world becauseeverybody's finishing harvest and out selling wines.
(01:11):
And I'm heading to New York shortly. And it's also this week October one
through seven, Mark's band Books Week. Let me just talk about this because
I'm the daughter of two authors.I am an author I'm a passionate reader.
I started reading as a young girlat h two, believe it or
(01:32):
not, phonetically, and spend alot of time in my local public library.
Very proud of my library card.So get this. What are these
celebrated authors have in common? EllenHopkins a New York Times bestseller, Tony
Morrison a Nobel Prize winner, JohnGreen a Michael L. Prince Award winner
and New York Times bestseller, andSarah Moss Moss also a New York Times
(01:53):
bestseller. This is just a fewauthors. Their books were among the top
eleven most books of the twenty twentytwo to twenty twenty three school year,
according to penn America. In fact, this organization reports that the number of
public school bands across the country increasedby thirty three percent in the twenty twenty
(02:16):
two to twenty three school year comparedto twenty twenty one twenty two. That's
over three thousand books, three thousandand three hundred and sixty two books,
accurately affecting one hundred and fifty onethousand, five hundred and fifty seven unique
titles. It impacts the work ofone thousand, four hundred and eighty authors,
(02:36):
illustrators, and translators. So it'snot just about banning books. It's
a banning freedom of speech, whichis the First Amendment, and it's affecting
people's livelihoods. So guess what stateis now the number one state for book
bans? Sunny Florida. Yeah,Sunny Florida has a very cloudy of impact
(02:57):
on books and it now exceeds Texasfor the most banned books in school.
Don't you ever wonder why in anation where we have a constitution where the
First Amendment protects freedom of speech,that we're banning books. That's censorship and
the First Amendment doesn't. While itisn't very specific about freedom of speech,
it basically guarantees the right to expressthat disent information on a basic level.
(03:22):
That means you can express opinion,even if unpopular. But it protects all
forms of communication, from speech toart to other media. Okay, this
is from the American Library Association,And I love librarians. Like I said,
I spent my early and very formativeyears hanging out alone or with groups
in libraries while my mother taught classand she was a communications specialist, and
(03:46):
we all wrote books in my familyand reread. And I'm a big believer
that children need to be reading atan early age and reading from a booklist
that is diverse and expands their minds. So we're going to dress this today
why reading is, as they say, fundamental, and why it needs to
(04:10):
happen at an early age, andhow we as concerned active women can make
sure that freedom of speech is protected, that we have access to good books
for children of all ages and adults, because this is just a children's thing.
My guest is Kyle Zimmer. Sheis a co founder and key principle
(04:30):
for First Book. It's a Firstbookdot org. It's a nonprofit she created
and co found in nineteen ninety twoto help further equal access to quality education.
And it is goal is well,she'll discuss it, but it is
about getting books to more children inlow income areas so they have the fundamental
(04:55):
right to be able to read andread books that can be available to the
of all topics. And I haveother people deciding what you can and can't
read. So Kyle Zimmer, welcometo Fearless Fabulous. You thank you so
much, Melanie. It's lovely tobe here. I think your whole background
is interesting each Obviously you can tellI'm passionate about this topic because I am
(05:16):
an author, I am a reader, and I do believe highly education is
the best form of getting people tobe their best. You are actually come
from the law background. You havea really amazing career, and you had
an AHA moment in nineteen eighty volunteeringat a soup kitchen. Thank you for
(05:36):
doing that in Washington, d C. What was that aha moment? Yeah,
it was actually in the late,very late eighties, and it was
I was a lawyer here in Washington, as you say, and I was,
you know, and the town wasunder siege, the crack epidemic had
hit, and violence was on therise. And I was raised that you
(06:00):
don't sit a fight like that out, that you roll your sleeves up and
you go help your hometown. SoI as you as you indicated, I
started reading with kids after work ata soup kitchen and really just wanted to
be part of, you know,strengthening the community. But what I began
(06:20):
to understand is that is how scarcebooks are in the lives of kids in
need, obviously not just in Washingtonbut nationwide, and and it you know,
it's obviously it turned into my wholelife. Well, it's a it's
a good luck to turn into becauseI've lived all over I lived in Washington,
(06:43):
I think before the crowd was therein the early eighties, and I've
lived in New York for many manyyears, lived in the rural South and
the not so rural South, andI think, you know, my concern
about I'm missing a linger on theband books thing now is that it seems
to be it is on the increase. The American Library Association documented one two
hundred and sixty nine demands to censorlibrary books and resources in twenty twenty two
(07:08):
that there were that's like huge.It's also doubles the doubles the number of
books reported in twenty twenty one.So we're seeing fairly large increases in censorship.
And of those titles, the massmajority were written by members of the
lgbt QIA community or about black people, indigenous and people of color. And
(07:30):
when I read I read, Iwent on pan America. I actually joined
pen America recently because I was verythinking about this whole topic. Great organization,
yeah it is, and you knowthey're doing great things, and you
know it concerns me because it basicallyskews how we think we are not providing
equal access to an open mind.Open mind to me, and open mind
(07:54):
is an open book, is opento mind. Open a book, open
to mind, and by shutting abook, you're closing a mind. And
it's clearly skewed. I was readingsome of the titles, which are fairly
well known, some of them soshocking, and it's everything from a curse
word to a use of a drugto basically a sexual You know what's fairly
(08:16):
scary about it is that a lotof these books reflect the reality of life.
So, yeah, people are doingdrugs, people are living in poverty,
people are doing a lot of notgreat things right now, but they're
also doing good things, but we'renot allowing that to go on paper.
And a lot of these books reflectour therapeutic memoirs that people are writing to
(08:37):
share their life and how they cameout of it. So what are your
thoughts on all this? Well,I think you know, let me say
right up front, I am aparent and I have two great young men
who are my sons, and Irecognize and honor a parent's right to oversee
what their kids are reading and doing. Of course, but where that right
(09:00):
ends is when it intersects with otherpeople's rights to oversee their children and what
they're reading and doing. And sofor me, at the sort of fundamental
level, you know, I thinkthat book bands limit parental rights because it's
a small number of parents making makingdecisions for the entire school or the entire
(09:26):
community in the case of the library. And that is patently wrong, you
know, and flies in the faceas you rightly reported the First Amendment.
This is not how this country wasformed. And and frankly, when you
look back over human history, thepeople who have book bands are not censorship
(09:52):
or either of those. They're notnew. This is not a new thing.
But every time there's a group ofpeople that takes up that particular banner,
they are never on the side ofelevating humanity and of equal access to
education, to quality education, andequal opportunity. It's never that's never hand
(10:18):
in glove with a book ban SoI think for a lot of reasons,
fundamentally, it goes against who weare as a country and who we want
to be, you know. SoI'm with you, heart and soul,
Melanie. It's interesting my mother,when she was bedridden and dying, asked
me to order she read book.I mean, I come from a seriously
(10:41):
big reading family. One hundreds andhundreds of books here that I've got to
now donate. And I'm holding myhand mouse Art Spiegelman's Mouse, which is
about the Holocaust. Okay, youknow, because there are people who don't
want that books about the Holocaust,and one movies because I don't want to.
And you know, it's messy,it's dirty, it's awful, but
it happens. Life is messy,right, It certainly is. It certainly
(11:07):
is. And and you know,one one thing, if I may,
I think there's uh, there's partof this narrative that is that that is
false. It becomes a false narrative, and that is that there's pornography.
You know, that word is thrownaround and that's just not true. Like
(11:28):
you can you know, there isno there is no responsible adult who is
suggesting that pornography is appropriate for children. There's no one responsible who's saying that.
And so, but that's one ofthe sort of Molotov cocktail words that
gets thrown into this debate even thoughit doesn't apply, it's not real,
(11:52):
but it shuts down the debate,and I think we have to be strong
and vocal on our side of thisconversation to say, of course pornography is
not appropriate for kids, but whatyou determine is over a line does not
make it pornographic, and that kidsand their families and very highly trained,
(12:18):
committed educators, that's who should beinvolved in this discussion. That's who should
be driving it. And so Ido think we have to get better as
individuals in stepping up and calling itout, because I think we've all been
to quiet and thinking that, well, it's just a small number of people
(12:41):
or a small number of communities.And I've got some research that we've performed
that I want to share with youand your listeners because I think it speaks
very much to to you know,to this set of issues. Sure Ted,
I'd love to hear about it.Sure What. We ran to two
studies, and we really spent alot of time and consideration on this,
(13:05):
because you know, the debate oftenis may I just say fact free,
you know when you're listening to advocatesof book bands, and so we really
wanted to inject actual data of what'sgoing on in classrooms, and so in
one study that we released just recentlyat Clinton Global Initiative two weeks ago is
(13:30):
a six month nationwide pilot study wherewe identified four hundred and fifty classrooms and
we infused those classrooms with very highquality, diverse children's books, and then
we sat back and watched what happenedfor those kids, and the results are
very, very compelling. What welearned is that the collectively the number of
(13:56):
hours that kids spent reading in thoseclassroom rooms jumped up by four hours per
week, and their academics improved.In fact, the classrooms we studied,
the average reading scores jumped up bythree percent over nationally expected averages. And
(14:18):
so what we see, even duringa six month window is that kids are
more engaged in reading, their academicsare beginning to show an upward turn,
you know. And this is ina country where we have you know,
fourth graders who are African American,Latino and Native who are eighty four percent
(14:43):
non proficient in their reading. It'sthe line goes between eighty percent and eighty
four percent. This is a fivealarm fire. We should be using every
tool we have to engage kids inreading to capture their me imagination it's critical
to them, to our communities,to our democracy, and our economy.
(15:07):
So you can tell I'm just aspassionate as you are about these things.
I feel like we, each oneof us has a critical stake in the
future of this absolutely. And youknow it's funny. Parents will allow their
kids to be on social media andway too much social media, and I
(15:30):
think that's also impacting quality reading time. There should be more reading and discussion
time in schools and around the table, but that doesn't seem to be happening
because we've all been to I'm nota parent, but I've been to plenty
of dinner parties where I see thekids just like you know, bowed down,
(15:50):
their postures, already disappearing over theirtheir iPhones or whatever their mobile phone
is. You see it everywhere,and it's like, I get my heart
warms when I travel, and Itravel a lot and I see a child
holding a book. I'll tell yousomething interesting, Kyle. I travel to
Europe a lot, and I andto rule like wine areas, and I've
(16:15):
seen more children. Sometimes the parentswill bring their children with them because you
know, there's not childcare, andthe kids will be reading books interesting and
I'm wondering, and I don't know, but I would be curious to find
out where the United States sits.I know, I know overall adult literacy
is very high in the United States, souse. I was reading up before
(16:36):
the show. But I'm curious howwe compared to other countries in terms of
promoting and nurturing reading among children.You know, I don't know that I
have the answer for you on that, on the comparative analysis. It is
a fascinating question. Oh, becausealso it translates into productivity down the road.
(17:00):
So I'm curious about that. Soyou co founded first book, and
i'd love to know you talked aboutyour research study, talk about some of
the other initiatives that you have beendoing since the founding. And I mean
this is like twenty years. Well, no, it's that's what he is,
like forty years. We just arein our thirty second year. I'm
(17:22):
amazed to report and we've done alot of great work. Only you know
what we it's a five. It'sa nonprofit social enterprise, which means that
it's a nonprofit and we steal somestrategies from the for profit side of the
universe to make sure that our workis efficient and as effective as it possibly
(17:45):
can be, and we we reallylook at our work. The centerpiece is
listening. It's listening. We havea community, an online community of over
five hundred and seventy five thousand members. These are educators in Title I schools,
(18:07):
they are or Title one eligible schools. They're in preschools and after schools
and healthcare settings and libraries and homelessshelters in every imaginable place. Because we
believe that educational equity requires three hundredand sixty degree surround sound for kids,
and we want to be supporting existingorganizations in communities all over the country.
(18:32):
So this community is the largest ofits kind of adults in the lives of
kids in need. It's the largestin North America. And we really listen
to what they need, what they'reworried about, what's keeping them up at
night, and responding to that.We have built three major pillars. One
is called First Book Research and Insights, and it's our research arm and the
(18:56):
study I just described to you aboutthe impact of diverse books in the classroom
that's a product of First Book Researchand Insights. We do about twenty studies
a year and for a huge rangeof topics also to guide our work and
make sure that our work is effectiveand that it's we're doing as much as
(19:18):
we possibly can. The second iscalled the Accelerator, the First Book Accelerator,
and it's a program where as wehear from our community that, for
example, they do not feel trainedin mental health issues, and you know,
post COVID, all of us areaware that kids are struggling with mental
(19:42):
health issues, and educators that's notusually part of their fundamental training when they're
getting their degree. So we recognizethat we listen to them, and through
the Accelerator, we reach outside xwho are really the thought leaders in those
critical topics, and we build resourcesand connections between our community and these thought
(20:08):
leaders to make sure that they're gettingas much as we can give them the
on the challenges they have. Thethird pillar is called the First Book Marketplace
and it's a nonprofit e commerce site. We are we move fifteen sixteen million
books annually through this site. Theyare either for free or they're at very
(20:34):
low cost. In addition to inaddition to books, we do ebooks.
Of course, we do backpacks andart supplies and you know, all kinds
of things that we make available forfree or at the lowest possible cost.
And that's sort of a flyover ofall of our programs. I think that's
(20:56):
great, you know, I wishyou know it. It starts obviously with
the parenting and encouraging reading, whichthe parents don't read, the kids are
not going to read. Here's aproblem. And then obviously in in in
schools we're reading was you know essential, I mean that was part of what
(21:17):
you learned or I mean when Iwas at school, reading was a big
deal. I don't know what it'slike now because everybody's a computers, but
I, you know, love computersand whatnot. But I still love the
smell and feel of a library book. You know, whenever I get I
get pitched books all the time.Here's here's the PDIA And I'm like,
(21:37):
you know what, I don't enjoysitting in my bed with my computer reading
a book. That just doesn't workwith me. I have to hold a
book and hit the feel and writing, and I like to tag the pages
and you know, and you know, I feel that we had newspapers too,
even though it has seemed to haveany But I think it's so important
to not give up on certain things. It also hurts authors and it's noted,
(21:59):
it hurts illustrated. I mean there'sa whole industry behind it that gets
impacted with bank books. It's reallyquite And the sad thing is the banned
books are all as I said,you know, they're all topics that are
They're all topics that you can findon Netflix and many come in streaming channels.
Yeah yeah, yeah. As Ithink about it, I mean I
(22:19):
get scarier. You know, there'sfair issues more available in other areas,
including social media. So we're takingsomething that really is in a better place
to learn and putting it aside.And I'm amazed by it, because who
are we to be, you know. I mean it's true parents can just
(22:41):
you know, have a say intheir children's lives. But this is about
public opinion and community and and andbanning things that should be available to all.
Uh. And that's a problem,and it's a big, it's a
scary problem, and I think weneed to underscore this isn't this isn't about
politics. This is about That's right. I think that's really important. Some
(23:02):
people go all your you know,it's not about politics, everybody, It's
about common sense and freedom of speechand education. And you know, Melanie,
if I made the uh, there'sone group of people who on your
list of people to worry about.In addition to authors and illustrators and others,
UH is teachers and first book.Just yesterday we first Book Research and
(23:26):
Insights, we released a second studythat was a survey of fifteen hundred educators
and we asked them, in part, how do you know, how do
you feel about book bands and whatimpact are they having on your teaching,
on your profession, on your youknow, on the kids in your classroom.
(23:48):
And while only one third of themof the respondents said that there were
book bands in their districts, seventyone person of them said that they feel
that book banning undermines their expertise andmakes them feel distrusted and increases their stress.
(24:10):
So that means that the splash effect, the chilling effects of this kind
of message, this kind of movement, if you will, on book banning,
it is undercutting our kids because asI said, the earlier study showed
that that you know is a powertool for children, but it's also undercutting
(24:33):
the teachers who are dedicated, underpaid, and who are it's already a profession
that's in crisis, and we're onemore time throwing something like this at them.
It's a big distraction. It's notgood. Yeah, you know,
the teachers. You know, I'vealways felt that every high paid CEO should
(24:57):
be tithing a percentage of his highpaid salary to teachers. Don't get me
started on billionaires who spend all theirmoney going to the moon, sending rockets
to the moon when they need todeal with situations on Earth. You know,
I don't get it. I'll neverget it. I don't have to
say it, and I mean myvoices are very swallowing. Called vote but
(25:18):
doesn't really matter because these are billionairesand they seem to do whatever they want.
But we should be supporting public education, all education, but specific public
education, but teachers. You know, I'm constantly amazed, Kyle when I
hear that teachers are buying supplies outof their own pocket. I how about
that? Yeah? Yeah, Ilive in I now live in I lived
in New York for many years cityand I live in Chattanooga, Tennessee.
(25:38):
As I said, my mother wasa longtime educator and we have she died
and we have lots of things Tozoni, and I'm donating a lot of stuff
to the Hamilton County Schools because,you know, anything I can to help
them, and I have. I'vebeen blessed with large collection of books,
and it's so funny. There's alittle pub, there's one of those little
(25:59):
those little library you neighborhood libraries.I go with an armload of books and
stock it. Every time I tryto work out. My husband's like,
really it's empty. I'm gonna gopull some more books because I'm swimming for
books. It's tabulous, so thatmeans people are picking them up and reading
them. Yeah, I'm a bigsupporter of those little I love big libraries.
I don't neighborhood wines. You know. Yeah, yes, it's like
(26:25):
so, you know, this isa great enterprise. What can people who
are listening most of my audiences women, They may or man you mothers,
but they're women, and women havea powerful voice now in this country.
What can we all be doing tomove the dial forward on this topic?
(26:49):
Well, I think there are anumber of things. Uh. First of
all, I think we all andI am including myself in this, we
need to collectively get up off ourcouches and make our voices heard. And
I think, you know, Ithink people are hesitant because they don't want
to be part of a fistfight,you know, in front of the board
(27:12):
of education or whatever. But thisis what happens in schools. And I've
poked around on this and I knowit to be true. Principles for example,
or school board. People they hearfrom let's say five or ten people
who are adamant about book bands promotingbook bands, and they do not hear
(27:37):
from the other side of the ledgerare they don't hear, And so they're
standing there with ten phone calls onone side of the balance and dead silence
on the other. And that isa problem because the loudest voice in this
case, the only voice, isgoing to be the one that takes the
(28:00):
day. And you don't have tohave a kid in the school. You
don't have to like you can callthe principle, you can call the board
of education, folks, and whoeverthe authorities are up the line, and
each you know, districts are organizedin different ways, and just say I
(28:21):
want to lob in, I wantto register that I live in your area.
I oppose book bands, And becauseI know that these books are critical
for our children. It's critical forthem to see themselves, it's critical for
them to see others. And that'sabout all you have to say. But
I think we collectively need to actand we need our voices to be heard.
(28:45):
So that's one. Secondly, ifI can promote First Book for a
minute. We as proud as Iam of having over five hundred and seventy
five thousand educators signed up with us. It's not nearly an enough. So
if any of your listeners, excuseme, if any of your listeners have
(29:07):
people in their lives who are teachersor involved in public schools that are Title
one or Title one eligible, orthey're volunteering perhaps through their church in a
homeless shelter or in a soup kitchenor anything like that, please ask them
to get those organizations signed up withus. It's free, there is no
(29:30):
obligation, and it takes about sevenminutes online to sign up. And so
because the bigger we are, themore we can bring that market strength and
lower the cost of the great booksthat we're talking about. And you can
find us at firstbook dotorg. That'sgreat. You know, let's face it,
(29:52):
words matter, whether you speak them, write them. And you know,
not taking action and not listening andnot speaking up is a powerful statement
right there. You know, it'sreally important if you feel something or see
something, say something, and Iwant to you know, I mentioned that,
you know, Florida is out passedTexas as book band, but this
(30:15):
is not just about Florida and Texas. And again it's not about politics.
I'm living in tennis. It's everystate. So I'm living in Tennessee now
and the Tennessee and Nashville, Tennesseeand reported in July that in Tennessee there's
about five hundred band books, soit's across the nation and they tend to
(30:38):
be similar in in topics, basicallyanything that's perceived as going against conventional norm,
which is like a lot of things, because we are also supposed to
be promoting being yourself and being anindividual. But you know, unfortunately some
(30:59):
people they can't share that. It'sso interesting, Kyle. I've had this
show now for it's ten years,okay, and I've interviewed a lot of
authors who have shared gripping, frighteningstories about their lives in books ranging from
sexual abuse to suicide attempts to recoveringfrom drug use to you name it,
(31:29):
and they the books have by writingwhat they went through, they have become
stronger people and it helps with otherpeople going through similar situations who are not
ready to speak up. So,you know, books are so important for
children to opening their minds but alsodeveloping language skills. Yeah, and we
(31:57):
are sadly. My mother was aspeech of communications specialist and language skills.
She bemoaned the fact that language skillsare worse than ever now and I think
we forget how important the ability tospeak and communicate is and how books can
really make that happen and further thatin a very positive way. Well,
(32:22):
I think it's also important, andI'm sure that you agree with this,
that people who kids who are notfrom those cultures, or people who've been
fortunate enough not to have catastrophic lifeexperiences. You know, I think it's
it's critically important because it gives usthat window into another person's experience, another
(32:45):
person's race or culture or just life, you know, life tragedies in some
cases. And I think sometimes weas a country, we when we can
divide a problem into a US versusthem, we're never very good at solving
(33:05):
those very quickly, you know.And in this case, some of the
narrative I have seen has been sortof people suggesting that this that Latia I'm
making up an example, Latino authorsare important only for Latino kids, and
they are certainly important for Latino kids, of course they are, yes,
(33:28):
yes, But the truth is isthat any child from any ethnic background,
from any financial background, who growsup without being exposed to other people's lives,
other people's cultures, they are goingto be at a huge disadvantage when
they step out onto the grander stagebecause our country and our world is getting
(33:54):
dramatically more diverse in experience and inculture and ability and everything else. And
imagine if you have no connection toany of that and you are trying to
start your life as a young person, that's a huge disadvantage. So I
(34:15):
desperately want those diverse books in thehands of kids who are who have been
underrepresented, so they can see theircultures and their families. Of course,
but oh my goodness, we allneed to be more empathetic, We need
to be more graceful with each other, and this is a prime way for
(34:36):
us to share those experiences. Absolutely, and I think these are such important
points. So, Kyle, you'redoing some great work. You know,
we have a little bit of timeleft. I have three questions. One,
what was the first book you readas a child that really resonated with
you? Isn't that such a greatquestion? You know, I distinctly I
(34:58):
was lucky like you to have alot of books in my home growing up,
and I spent a big chunk ofmy childhood on the linoleum floor in
the public library. Like you,I very distinctly remember reading The Adventures of
Winnie the Pooh, the original one, the big thick one, and I
was determined to go page by pagewhen I was quite little on that and
(35:22):
I still have that copy. Ohyou know what, I'm so endeared by
that, Kyle, because I'm movedinto my mother's house to care for and
I'm sleeping in my childhood bedroom still, and the only books I kept after
we had to pack up hundreds ofbooks are all my Winny the Poos.
I have my original Winnyo. Andbecause I believe everybody is a character in
(35:45):
Pooh, my husband is Quary forRobin, and I think I'm big Litter,
the wise old owl, but Ithink everybody is a character Winny the
Pooh. I think it's a seminalbooks. The other ones I have or
not is when I was six,I found that and all my Mary Poppin's
books and My Wizard of Oz,which The Wizard of Oz is the book
(36:08):
that probably has affected me more thanany other book in life. Fabulous.
Yeah, because when I wrote mybook on getting through cancer, it was
basically envisioned by the Wizard of OzWaiting to get out of You know,
why do I go back to Kansasas an adult? What are you reading
that is exciting you? You know, I read. I'm kind of all
(36:30):
over the map with my reading.I just finished a book about the history
of Ireland called We Didn't Know Ourselvesand it was the history of Ireland from
like nineteen fifty to present, andthat was stunning. My family has deep
(36:51):
Virush roots, so I was interestedin that. And I'll tell you I
reread The Good Earth by Pearl recently, and I have a great copy of
that book. It's always been oneof my favorites, and I reread it
and it's a wonderful thing to do. Because, of course, at sixty
(37:13):
two, I have a very differentslant on the way that book plays in
my mind than I did when Iwas nineteen, So it's kind of fun
to go back to those stories.For me, I think we're reading is
important. I have that book inthis library in my office. The book
that when I became older, Iwas still in high school, but that's
still resonated with me and I actuallytalked about on last week's show was Iron
(37:38):
Rand's The Virtue of Selfishness. AlsoThe Fountainhead, which resonated with me even
today when I created Envision this showand Fearless Fabulous you about how individuality is
so important versus conventionality, and thatbeing selfish is not a bad thing because
(37:59):
you need to tell of yourself andyour self care. So those books stay
with me forever. And Your ErroneousZones by doctor Dwayne Weyer, you know,
sometimes you go back and reread them. But I do encourage everybody listening
to if you have childhood books,go back and read them. When my
(38:20):
mother died, I referenced The GivingTree. Oh uh huh, another book
that I reread frequently because it's sucha learning lesson in there about giving but
you know, taking and giving.So I think everybody needs to go back
and reread certain books at different stagesof your life. It's very interesting.
(38:42):
Absolutely, well, we're at theend of the show. It's really been
a pleasure. Again. We've beentalking with Kyle Zimmer. The organization is
firstbook dot org and you can getinvolved by visiting that website. There's no
cost. But what you're doing isyou're supporting the fundamentals of freedom of speech,
literacy, education and opening people's mindsbecause, as I say, read
(39:05):
my lips, open a book andyou'll open a mind and start young with
children because it stays with you forever. Kyle and I just talked about books
that we were reading as children,as young girls that still resonate with us.
Reading is such an important form ofeducation, communication, enlightenment and helping
(39:25):
people grow. So we need tonurture that and make sure that we protect
those rights. Yeah always, Kyle, thank you so much for joining me.
Kyle Zimmer, first book on Fearlessfabulous you thank you so much.
Melanie, what a wonderful time.Well, I think it's such an important
(39:46):
topic and for all of you listening, go get a library card. They're
free, and sit down and curlup and read a book and do it
and encourage your kids as well,because you will find peace and calm and
relaxation. And it's better than justconstantly clicking and clicking and streaming and scrolling.
(40:07):
It really is. I do itall the time away from everything to
relax. You've been listening to anotheredition of Fearless Fabulous You as usual.
My message is that you have thechoice in life to live how you want
and not live by other people's terms. Choose life on your terms and choose
fearless and fabulous, and do itin a way that helps lift others up
(40:28):
with you. Thank you. I'mMelanie Young, follow me, I'm Melanie
Fabulous. And you can listen tothis show on your favorite podcast platform,
including all the ones that are hugelike iHeart Spotify, Apple. So do
it and share it and thank youand thank you again, Kyle. Thanks
so much they had with the Fam.
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