August 7, 2025 • 47 mins
An absorbing talk with America’s foremost political street artist, Robbie Conal, who has received countless accolades from many of the country’s leading publications. His art has been the subject of museum & gallery exhibits & nat'l grants. He is also a guerrilla artist: his posters placed on the streets of most major cities. The purpose is to create awareness and exposure of critical concerns through art to as many as possible. His humor and wordplay make the messages that much more effective.
It's Your Voice is broadcast live Wednesdays at 8PM ET Music on W4CY Radio (www.w4cy.com) part of Talk 4 Radio (www.talk4radio.com) on the Talk 4 Media Network (www.talk4media.com). It's Your Voice is viewed on Talk 4 TV (www.talk4tv.com).
It's Your Voice Podcast is also available on Talk 4 Media (www.talk4media.com), Talk 4 Podcasting (www.talk4podcasting.com), iHeartRadio, Amazon Music, Pandora, Spotify, Audible, and over 100 other podcast outlets.
It's Your Voice is broadcast live Wednesdays at 8PM ET Music on W4CY Radio (www.w4cy.com) part of Talk 4 Radio (www.talk4radio.com) on the Talk 4 Media Network (www.talk4media.com). It's Your Voice is viewed on Talk 4 TV (www.talk4tv.com).
It's Your Voice Podcast is also available on Talk 4 Media (www.talk4media.com), Talk 4 Podcasting (www.talk4podcasting.com), iHeartRadio, Amazon Music, Pandora, Spotify, Audible, and over 100 other podcast outlets.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
The topics and opinions expressed in the following show are
solely those of the hosts and their guests and not
those of W four c Y Radio. It's employees are affiliates.
We make no recommendations or endorsements for radio show programs, services,
or products mentioned on air or on our web. No
liability explicitor implied shall be extended to W four c
Y Radio or it's employees or affiliates. Any questions or
comments should be directed to those show hosts. Thank you
(00:20):
for choosing W four c Y Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
LOCHI, Let's speech, not check, Let's beak, show in Lot,
Let's breech in Lot, Let's breach, Lot, Let's brich and
(00:47):
lot let.
Speaker 3 (00:54):
In a lot.
Speaker 4 (00:56):
Hello, and welcome to It's Your Voice, the show that
hosts and riching conversations in diversity. My name is Bihia Yaxon.
I am a core alignment coach and a diversity educator,
which means I support train and coach groups, organizations, individuals
and helping them identify how to align their actions with
(01:18):
their values. Often it means that are identifying patterns that
are not serving them and building neuropathways to patterns that
are far more inclusive, create more belonging, and actually make
everyone happier.
Speaker 5 (01:33):
If you're interested in.
Speaker 4 (01:34):
Checking out my website, it's what you want coaching dot
WordPress dot com.
Speaker 5 (01:39):
I'm super excited about the conversation.
Speaker 4 (01:41):
We're going to have tonight with a street artist, Robbie Kanal,
and I wanted to just read a little bit of
his background information and then bring them on and then
finish reading it when you see him on camera, because
it's fascinating.
Speaker 5 (01:56):
And you got to check out his website.
Speaker 4 (01:59):
That's a Robbieconnell and spelled conal dot com. But let
me just tell you who he is and then we'll
get started. So Robbie Kanal grew up on the Upper
West Side of Manhattan, New York, raised by union organizers.
Considered the major arts or major art museums to be
his daycare center. He attended High School of Music and
(02:22):
Art and received a BFA at San Francisco State University
in sixty nine and his Master of Fine Arts in
seventy eight. In nineteen eighty six, angered by the Reagan
administration's rabid abuse of political power in the name of
representative democracy, he began making satirical oil portraits of politicians
(02:42):
and bureaucrats, turning them into street posters. He developed an
irregular guerrilla army of volunteers who helped him poster the
streets of major cities around the country. Over the past
thirty five years, Robbie has made more than one hundred
street posters, satirizing politicians, all stripes, elvangelists, you name it,
(03:04):
the news, entertainment media, global capitalists, and with his unique
brand of humor and insight, he has also taken on
heavier subjects like censorship or social justice and environmental issues
and not to be understood too quickly, He's recently began
applying his wit with great success, on celebratory portraits of
(03:26):
his personal heroes Nelson, Mandela Dundee, the Donnie Lama, Martin,
Luther King, Junior, James Baldwin, Madame Marie Curie, Albert Einstein,
Greta Tunberg with Better Ginsburg, and my angelous. So, Robbie,
come on, I just your website's amazing. H your bio
is amazing, and I just want to read a little
(03:47):
bit more while they can see you here.
Speaker 3 (03:50):
Let me add let me add one little thing to
my resume that maybe is important, maybe, isn't I got
my MFA from Stanford. And I only tell you this
because when I got into the graduate program at Stanford,
my father told me, you got him to make a mistake,
take advantage of it, do everything, and so Stafford was
(04:12):
very good to me. So I just want to get
that in there.
Speaker 5 (04:16):
Nice, thank you? Is it okay? If I just read
a little bit more, because you've.
Speaker 3 (04:20):
Been do anything you want to me, okay.
Speaker 4 (04:26):
I just for listeners and viewers to know. The Washington
Post has called Robbie America's foremost street artist. His work
has been featured on CBS This Morning, Charlie Rose and
in Time Magazine, Newsweek, The New York Times, Los Angeles Times,
Wall Street Journal, The Nation, Vanity Fair, Rolling Stones, People Magazine,
(04:48):
and if You've appeared.
Speaker 5 (04:49):
On numerous TV shows and networks.
Speaker 4 (04:54):
Point you received the National Dominant for the Arts Individual
Art Artist Grant Getty, Individual Artist Grant and Los Angeles
Cultural Affairs Individual Artists Grant.
Speaker 5 (05:05):
No small feats and.
Speaker 3 (05:09):
We get them from mistakes. It's part of my job.
Speaker 4 (05:14):
And your work has been collected by and featured in
exhibitions at the Metropolitan Museum of Art at New York,
the Los Angeles County Museum of Art, the Museum of
Contemporary Art in Los Angeles, and the San Jose Museum
of Art.
Speaker 5 (05:28):
And I love this. Get this. He has also been
a cartoon character on The Simpsons.
Speaker 3 (05:33):
Yeah, that has my one minute of being annoyed in
the United States.
Speaker 5 (05:42):
Well, and I'll just jump to that.
Speaker 4 (05:45):
You have books which include Art Attack, great name, The
Midnight Politics of a Gorilla poster artist art Burn not
your typical political animal, with your wife, Deborah Ross, who
I want to thank who's been so helpful.
Speaker 3 (06:01):
I want to every day every.
Speaker 5 (06:07):
And you got you you know, you two live in
Los Osos, California.
Speaker 3 (06:11):
Now yep, luckily nobody knows where that is fighting out
well except from you.
Speaker 5 (06:20):
Okay, oh great, thank you. It's lucky to meet you too.
Speaker 4 (06:24):
And uh it was Yeah, it was at a rally
or march and where there were all kinds of signs
and like incredible wit and humor and a profound perspective
just on these short little signs, and yours stood out
your stand out and I'm just yeah, just grateful to
(06:46):
have you here.
Speaker 5 (06:47):
And I just want to ask you.
Speaker 3 (06:49):
Let me just say something about those signs uh, okay,
mine are real production numbers, and you know they're from
original art that I make in the studio, like this
guy back here. But then they go through a production
process and finally there are thousands and thousands of them
printed on giant Heielberg presses at Typecraft Ink in Pasadena.
(07:12):
But my favorite thing about going to and we go
to every protest we can, of course got to represent,
but is all the homemade signs that we see, and
and there's a panopley of them. There are more than
I've ever seen in demonstrations before. And my image is
always of little old ladies in their kitchen, at the
(07:34):
kitchen table with their crayons working on these cardboard signs,
you know, handmade and witty and sweet and you know,
so sincere and angry. And I feel the same way.
But I love them very much. And if I were
to collect anything, and I'm not a collector except you know,
(07:56):
like a bad people, I would collec those signs if
they would let me have them. They're fantastic, I agree,
and they agreed. Sign They're a good sign for us
that really doing it, you know what I mean. Yeah,
just yeah, so just yeah.
Speaker 5 (08:13):
Yeah, definitely yeah.
Speaker 4 (08:15):
But yeah, respect and admiration for all the sign makers
out there, and it's so such solidarity and gives us
so much hope. It's just incredible elation. It can be
pretty uh upsetting and depressing. I feel like I feel
isolated when there's heavy issues dropping down. But I want
(08:36):
to ask you for folks who aren't familiar, I love
that in the he said the bio I just read,
I mentioned of a gorilla army, and I looked at
your website and you talked about uh gorilla etiquette. And
for folks, I like to start with kind of definitions,
and I love like, I love what you read about
I wrote about gorilla etiquette, like how you know, be polite, calm, quick,
(09:00):
police approach, you just do what they say, uh leave,
be respectful. But for folks who aren't sure what is
a gorilla artist or political street artists, can you just
like give us a definition?
Speaker 3 (09:11):
Well, I can tell you that you know. My personal
mantra for what I do is apply what you do
best to what you care about most. And so I
could do three things in my life. I could play baseball.
I can't anymore, but I could. I could draw. I
still can do that and I could talk smack, which
(09:32):
I also can still do. So two out of three
ain't bad. And uh, one thing I learned and making,
you know, satirical portraits of very bad people who I think,
you know, have done serious damage to you know, my
favorite subject democracy in America and just in America mostly,
(09:54):
you know, almost exclusively, because that's all I know well
enough to critique. Is that if I just were to
show in art galleries and I do, you know, around
the country, that would be a very limited audience for
(10:15):
my public concerns about very serious public issues that I
care about. And what I wanted to do was somehow
engage in the national conversation about social and political issues
that I care about. And I grew up in New
York and my parents had me, you know, go to
(10:38):
all the major museums as daycare centers. Like you said,
some kids, you know, go to the park and play,
Some polical kids go to their violin lesson. I went
to the Met, the Modern, and the Whitney and hung
out with Guernica at the Modern, who was there then?
And I so, I know, I knew more about art
(10:58):
about social and political issues then I even knew I knew,
and when I got really upset and Ronald Reagan kind
of made me do it about what was going on
and how unforthcoming he and his minions were about what
they were doing to American democracy, I remembered, you know,
the history of street postering, which I had seen in
(11:20):
the museums and you know, around the streets a little
bit but not much, and uh, you know, like Jose
Guadalupe Pasada in Mexico and the great Mexican muralists, and
uh even you know, going back to Domier and Goya
and all that stuff. I knew all that stuff. I
(11:40):
knew about posters and know how to make one. But I
realized that I could translate these nasty little black and
white portraits I was doing I was doing about all
these people I really was concerned about into street posters.
If I could figure out how to make them and
maybe put them up on the streets where I would
(12:01):
have some kind of interaction, my work would have some
kind of interaction, My concerns would have some kind of
interaction with regular people who didn't necessarily go to galleries
or museums but were just going about their daily lives.
And if I make maybe I could like using humor
as my sword, and you know, satirical sword, which there's
(12:26):
also a great history of tickle them into thinking along
with me about subjects that I really cared about and
was concerned about. So I finally, you know, figured out.
I was playing in a co ed softball league in
mar Vista in Los Angeles, and I was complaining about
(12:47):
this while I was at shortstop, and our first baseman
told me, would you please shut up? I have a
small printing company. I'll come after work and I'll show
you how to make a poster, you know. So I
made the pathetic little poster which was about Reagan and
three members of his cabinet called men with No Lips
(13:09):
because it's a terrible almost haiku, but it was referencing
how unforthcoming they were about what they were doing, you know,
like Iran Contra and uh, you know, deregulating everything and
all kinds of stuff that I objected to and I
felt was hurting our democracy. So that's how I started,
(13:34):
and just talk to my best friend. It's kind of
like a Tom Sawyer Huck Finn kind of thing. You know,
you're gonna love going out in the middle of the
night in one of the most dangerous urban areas in
the country, and you know, putting up these posters and
you're gonna be really good at it too, you know. Like,
so we did that. And my second one was women
with Teeth, which was Nancy Reagan and Margaret Thatcher, you know,
(14:00):
and Joan Rivers and Jean Kirkpatrick who was the mother
of the New Right actually in America at the time
she had she was our representative at the un but uh,
it's the only portrait known of her smiling, I think, uh.
And it was women with teeth, you know, being a feminist,
I thought I would have to represent uh, and women
(14:24):
express their power differently from men anyway, sometimes often more effectively,
so men with no lips, women with teeth. And then
I got into specifics. Oh. The other thing was so
I was doing that around LA and then I realized,
wait a minute, I got all my friends in New York.
I could roll up posters, get on a plane. My
(14:46):
friends are all artists. They got nothing to do. You know,
there's glue and brushes in New York. Uh. Maybe I
could list some volunteer guerrillas and put up posters in
New York and when I was in New York. So
wait a minute, that's not very far from Washington, d C,
which is, you know, where all my subjects are. You know,
(15:08):
that's ground zero for.
Speaker 5 (15:10):
My subject Yeah.
Speaker 3 (15:11):
And we knew enough people you know, around d C
as well, and I got to meet some people around
d C so that we enlisted some local volunteers from there.
And then I realized I could go to major cities
around the country with locals, you know, and do Chicago,
(15:33):
do the Bay Area? Of course, Seattle, went to Austin.
I'm not really big ongoing to the South, but I've
been to the South a little bit. Never works out,
but still I almost Kathy Whitmyer, who was the mayor
of Houston, almost got me when I was down there
in the late eighties. But I've had, you know, relatively
(15:58):
contentious relationships with scipalities around the country, including l A.
But uh, it's a form minor form of civil disobedience,
so they're you know, so there. It ain't Martin Luther
King Jr. Or nothing, but it's a little bit of something,
a little bit of good trouble maybe yeah, and then
good yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4 (16:19):
Definitely good trouble. And they and you're you emphasize nonviolence
on your website.
Speaker 3 (16:25):
Oh yeah, we you know. Uh, the idea is to
get them up so people will see them. The idea
is that the police are not our enemy, you know,
like they might think we're their enemies, but I don't
think they are. And and uh, part of guerrilla etiquette,
as you were asking, is to be cosmo polite, you know,
(16:45):
especially with people in dark blue uniforms with shiny accessories
in the middle of the night. Yeah. And I had
lots of conversations with lots of those people. And you know,
the first like when I give talks around the country,
or at least I did, and the first questions I
would always get asked were how many times have you
been arrested? Man? You know? And enough enough times? And
(17:08):
the other is what kind of glue do you use?
Speaker 4 (17:10):
So well, uh they ever asked pointed out, I should
ask you to just say more about like how you
use humor.
Speaker 3 (17:20):
Oh yeah, well so. Colloquial American English is one of
the most subsor subversive forms of communication on the planet. English,
American English especially, but also uh, you know, great British
English can really be turned upside down and shaken for
(17:40):
loose change, and you know, like say Cockney English and
Cockney slang. And Americans are terrific at taking phrases and
taking situations and applying linguistic humor linguish stick. I would
call it to those situations. I'll give you an example,
(18:04):
like the San Diego I'm a baseball fan Dodgers all
my life, but when the San Diego Padres built a
new stadium in downtown San Diego, I happened to go
to a game. I have friends at the Salk Institute
for Biological Studies down there, and I will go down
(18:26):
there quite a bit. And I went to a bar
after a game, after one of the first games at
this new stadium, and it turns out that Petco, the
food you know, like pet food company big had paid
(18:48):
like fifteen million dollars or something to name the stadium Petco,
like the new stadium they you know, they as a
part of their advertising. And I was in a bar
with the people after the game, and they didn't seem
to like the stadium. I said, what don't you like
about it? And I said, well, we're calling it the
litter box perfect, you know, like just bang. And Americans
(19:14):
are very good at that, and I'm pretty into that
as well. So the combination of images and texts, there's
a and text in art, you know, there's a long
tradition of that. And I was inspired by things like
headlines in the tabloids in New York when I was
growing up there, you know, like the New York Post
(19:36):
and the Daily News. They would have you know, like
three or four words like and blaring out at every newsstand.
And I I could do that, you know, like add text,
some kind of punning, humorous short text with these satirical portraits,
(19:56):
and maybe it would make a double whammy, you know,
like uh, maybe they'd work together to make more than
some of its parts. And occasionally that works out, you know.
Speaker 5 (20:07):
I've occasionally.
Speaker 3 (20:12):
Like, so, this is Stephen Miller back here.
Speaker 5 (20:16):
Do you recognize who that is?
Speaker 3 (20:18):
Panta Monica apologizes for him. He went to sam Ohai
and I spent a lot of time in La so
I did the portrait and then the text. You know,
he was on Trump's staff. He still is. So I
called him staff infection, and he is infecting you know,
America and the world with quite the disease. So just
(20:42):
a little bit of humor you know. Yeah, uh yeah,
slice a bad guy down to size maybe a little bit.
So there you go. Okay, so, oh did you get that?
Speaker 5 (20:54):
Uh here's another window.
Speaker 3 (20:56):
Yeah, this is a riff off of the last street
poster I did, which was Trump as Dictator and so
his you know, vice president is Dictator todd like little Dictator.
So we're going to make that. There you go, there's Dictator,
our buddy. And those are posters that have been put
(21:19):
up on phone core and we bring to demonstrations and stuff,
but usually they're put up in the middle of the
night on traffic lights, switching boxes around a city or
construction site walls and stuff like that. Yep, oh my goodness.
Nineteen eighty eight. That's that's about Iran Contra. And that's
(21:40):
the poster where I met my darling wife, Debora Ross
is a great graphic designer and motion and movie title designer.
And yeah the Supreme Court, oh my injustices, yeah, yeah, injustice.
Speaker 5 (21:56):
That's that's powerful.
Speaker 3 (21:58):
Well, here's some of the original art. That's Shepherd Fairies
Gallery in Los Angeles. We had a big show before
the election, and there's little old of me, but you
get to see the scale of them. And I've done
I think I did about eighty of them. You know,
I had nothing to do during COVID anyway, you know,
(22:19):
couldn't go anywhere, just in my studio, playing with my crayons.
And I made more art in those two and a
half years, in that two and a half year period
than any other two and a half year period in
my life.
Speaker 4 (22:33):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (22:34):
And it was all bad, and it is pretty bad.
So I've got a lot of it around here. But
you know, some of it shows shows up on the street,
and most of it shows up on Instagram, you know,
where we can put up you know, one a week
or something, depending on what's going It's always got to
(22:56):
be in response to something that's going on, you know,
in the kind of tree in the culture, in politics.
But I think you mentioned it that Debbie you know whatever.
Once in a while get annoyed with me and say,
can't you do anything positive? You know, like you know,
this is really depressing, and uh, I see, well, like
(23:17):
what you know? And she would say, like whoa who
do you like? How about some inspirational women? You know? Oh, okay, okay,
So a few of those, you know, her being the
first of many, are several and I think the first
one I did was Ruth Bader Ginsburg definitely hero Yeah.
(23:41):
And then I did AOC who I just love, Alexandro
a Cassio Cortez and Gretathunberg, who's the youngest, Yeah, and
a bunch of I did a bunch of them, you know,
and I'm I'm still doing them. But now I have
(24:02):
another thing that I do. I don't know if she
told you about this, and I don't know if it's
very well known, probably not about me, that when I really,
like at three in the morning, when I just can't
I've been painting all day and all night and I
just can't take it anymore, I do knuckleheads, which are
skulls with a word underneath, kind of happy skulls, like
(24:26):
crazy sculls. So I have one that I just did
because I needed a break. We all need a break,
we all need a little positivity. And you can see
him here. He is fun guy and he's a sugar skull,
glitter skull with mushrooms popping out of his head. Happy mushrooms.
(24:48):
So I did a We're doing an addition of Little
Fun Guys, an edition that will probably sell, you know,
like on my website or something in the next few weeks.
But and I'm also working on fun gal because you know,
just like.
Speaker 5 (25:06):
With equity, just like the conclusion, I see, you.
Speaker 3 (25:11):
Know, we got to have some fun. We've got to
have some fun guys and gals get together and do
some stuff. So I'm working. Well, she's over there, just
coming up on the in the studio wall.
Speaker 5 (25:23):
Oh cool. Well, let me ask you a couple of more.
Speaker 4 (25:25):
I want to actually look at a couple more questions
that never pointed out, and then I then I have
a couple that I am uh coming from listening to
you already said. Okay, so let's see if we talked
about it. Yeah, you talked about why humor is so
important in this devor and endeavor. Yes, a great one too.
Speaker 5 (25:46):
Well, a couple here people you.
Speaker 3 (25:47):
Know, like, uh, we've got very depressing subjects. So candy
coating it with a little bit of humor, a little
a little needling, you know, goes a long way. It
ain't John Stewart, but it's something.
Speaker 5 (26:01):
It's definitely something.
Speaker 4 (26:05):
Yeah, I'm curious about how how it feels like afterwards,
Like how is it like cathartic, like like say, like
whether it's the first one that you were angered by,
like what the Reagan administration was doing, or you're angered
about what this like.
Speaker 5 (26:21):
Each time you think of one and produce it, do.
Speaker 4 (26:25):
You feel uplifted, relieved or like Laddie, how do you feel?
And maybe it's not until you have the posters distributed
out on the streets, but like, I'm just curious what it.
Speaker 5 (26:36):
Does for it.
Speaker 3 (26:36):
It is cathartic and it's also addictive. Shepherd Fairy is
a good buddy of mine and we've gone out postering together,
his posters, my posters. We've known each other a long
time and when we talk about this, you know, he
still will has like a bucket of glue and a
(26:57):
roller in the back of his old toota, which drives
his wife Amanda crazy. But we both say, you know,
there's nothing like analog going out in the streets and
doing it yourself or with other people. And the way
I do it a little different from Shepherd, but when
we're out together it's the same. But in Los Angeles,
(27:22):
for those of you who know or don't know, La
Canter's Delhi is kind of the center of Los Angeles.
It's a Jewish delicatest and that's open twenty four to seven.
Everybody knows it. So when we gather up our volunteer
crews in Los Angeles, we meet at Canter's Deli and
I have my own section called Robbie's Hole probably, and
(27:46):
we gather there and you know, fire up on matsa ball,
soup and milkshakes, and I give a little talk about
the particular poster and you know, what we're going to
do and why we're doing it, and then take everybody
out to the parking lot and I have give every
crew of two or three people a roll of posters,
(28:10):
a bucket of glue and a brush or two and
send them out wherever they want to go in the city.
I used to have like this demographic plan, you know,
where I wanted people to go to put up posters
or I thought that would have the most effect. And
then I realized these people are so enthusiastic, you know,
to make a little mischief for something that they believe in.
(28:31):
And actually it's kind of slightly illegal, like being slightly
pregnant to do this because we don't ask for permission.
It's minor civil disobedience, so they're risking something going out
in the middle of the night, not just because it's dangerous,
but because they could get arrested, and they're doing this
for the cause. Let them go where the hell they want,
(28:53):
you know, and usually they just go to their own
neighborhood to tell you the truth. They're like, or they
have a plan, you know, arbeit for me to impose
a plan on them. This is all about a certain
kind of freedom of expression. And so then we send
them out and then we meet if they want to.
We meet at the end of the night at an
(29:15):
all night place, not Cantors, because we've already been there.
There are a couple of Thai restaurants that are open
till three in the morning or so. And then they
get to tell their war stories, you know, like so
we were out there and that the bloody a lot
of this happened, and that happened, and of course we
also one of the things that's very important to me
(29:36):
that I've been trying to that I try to tell
all my street art and graffiti buddies who I know
that you need a good lawyer, you know, you have
to be prepared, especially these days any day, but especially
these days, and have them on call, you know. So
(29:56):
we have the National Lawyer's Guild helps us all over
the country. They have offices chapters all over the country,
and I let them know I'm coming and asked them
if they would look out for us. And you know,
if somebody gets arrested, somebody has some trouble, would they
represent us? And usually they do it pro bono, which
is terrific. And we've been helped immeasurably by them, especially
(30:22):
in places like North Carolina in the South and well
and Boston. Actually, Shepherd mere One and I a mere One,
was a great street artist from Echo Park. In two
thousand and four, we did a national anti Bush, anti
Iraq war poster campaign and went all around the country
(30:45):
putting these things up before the election. And Mirror got
busted in Boston and I didn't because my car was
right behind him and I saw what was happening. But
we went and bailed them out in the morning. But
I mean, of course it's illegal everywhere, so and it
(31:05):
just also depends sometimes on the personal interaction you have
with any officer of the law. At that moment, I've
been sent busted and taken to jail in New York
by Rudy Giuliani's anti graffiti task Force, where the head
of the task force who had me in handcuffs in
(31:26):
the back of his fake taxicab, grumbling that this is
not what he wants to do. He didn't sign up
for this kind of you know, duty busting some little
old guy from California who's putting up posters of Gandhi,
the Dalai Lama and Martin Luther King. You know, like,
he said, this is bullshit. I said, well, we agree
(31:47):
on that. As he takes me to jail.
Speaker 4 (31:51):
I bet there are a lot of officers right now
who are not happy with the pressure on them.
Speaker 3 (31:57):
I think you're right. I think you're right. In the
National Guard people even Marines, like, what are we doing
standing around l A doing nothing for nothing? Yeah? Well sorry,
go ahead, hundreds of them.
Speaker 5 (32:10):
Yeah, nothing sent with no plan, no communication.
Speaker 3 (32:14):
Show, just for show.
Speaker 5 (32:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (32:16):
Anyway, So, what what do you like if you when
you're personally, let's say, confronted by an authority figure.
Speaker 5 (32:26):
Saying that you can't do this, what is like, what
do you do?
Speaker 3 (32:30):
Well? It just depends, you know, like sometimes they'll ask
us to take them down, so we'll do our best
to do that for them and then just go out
there next night and put them back up. Sometimes I
just explained myself, you know, as best I can without
raising any tackles, you know, say, expressing myself in public
(32:53):
about public issues that I care about. And I'm just
one little old person, you know. This is I can't
afford like newspaper ads or TV ads. This is like
the only way I could figure to do it. And
you know, I understand that it's a misdemeanor. And you know,
if you want to write me up, I get it,
(33:15):
you know. And they sometimes they do, sometimes they don't,
you know, like I just copped to it. There's nothing.
I'll tell you a story like I was in Washington,
D C. With a bunch of volunteers in a car
and we were driving around. We put stuff up. I
think it was Jim and Tammy Baker, the televangelists.
Speaker 5 (33:36):
It was.
Speaker 3 (33:37):
A diptych false prophet and we got stopped. Uh. There
are five different kinds of police in Washington, D C.
Just in case you were counting. H And we got
stopped by federal police on the mall and they they
told us to take them down and you know, shut
(33:59):
up and go home. And pay your taxes. Later that night,
we were stopped by District of Columbia police and they
said to me, so you're the guy, you know, like
I'm driving in cars all full of glue and posters
and people, and they said, so you're the Are you
the guy who like putting these posters up all over DC?
I said, yeah, yeah, okay, we have two for the
(34:22):
station house with no glu please, so you never.
Speaker 4 (34:28):
You know, there's one benefit of copying to it? Yeah, yeah,
Well no, it's because you have integrity and compassion.
Speaker 5 (34:41):
Well it is me, you know, like, yeah, put good
with it.
Speaker 3 (34:46):
I'm not myself. I haven't been myself lately for about
forty years because I started this in eighty six, so
it's about thirty nine years now, and I was late.
I could have done it sooner, I would have, you know.
It just took me a while to come around because
I was a stone cold hippie at San Francisco State.
I got kicked out of San Francisco State in sixty
(35:08):
nine by Si Hayakawa for me and a hundred of
my closest friends occupying the Administration building protesting the Vietnam War.
Lost my draft deferment for that, but I wasn't making
art about social and political issues at that time. I
was totally cosmic, you know, still against the war. Wars
(35:33):
are no good for the cosmos either.
Speaker 5 (35:36):
Oh yeah, yeah, it was totally yeah, But.
Speaker 3 (35:40):
I really didn't really, I really didn't really you know,
like get it all together in terms of making art
about specific issues and then you know, presenting it in
public until the early mid eighties. And the person who
helped me the most. The two people who helped me
(36:02):
the most were Leon Gallop and Nancy Sperrow. Leon gallob
probably the greatest political American artist of his generation, and
Nancy Sparrow probably the greatest feminist artists of her generation.
They're married couple from Chicago, but when I met them,
they were living in the West Village in New York,
and they helped me. They were never my teachers, but
(36:26):
they are my mentors. And they helped me, hone my
art down to the basics of like an ugly all
white guy in a suit and tie and two or
three words. I was making these big twelve foot long
canvases with all kinds of stuff in them, and Leon
(36:47):
just told me, you know, like just do the bad guys.
Speaker 4 (36:51):
Wow, that's really interesting to hear because one of my questions,
like the big question I've been wanting to ask you,
is how to help others, Like so many people are
struggling to find their voice, to find their expression, to
find a way to communicate what matters to them and
feel like they can have an impact.
Speaker 3 (37:12):
Well, now there's a question that I would prefer to
do a little dance around, because I only because I mean,
I would never discourage anybody, you know, from trying to
do that. Of course, you know, I've taught all my
adult life, and usually no matter what I'm teaching. I
taught at USC for many years, and you see Santa
(37:35):
Barbara and other places, and no matter what I'm teaching,
I'm usually teaching Robbie one oh one. That's just what
comes out, even if it's figure drawing. You know, it
just comes out Robbie one on one. I had students
who would actually time me, Like figure drawing classes are
usually three or four hours, and so I had groups
(37:56):
of students who would be betting on when I would
go off, you know, when I would jump up on
a table and start ranting about politics. But as for
making any claims about my art, like speaking for myself,
like or even the goal of making art to change
(38:19):
other people's minds about stuff that they care about or
that you care about. I'm not so sure about that,
you know, I'm not sure that. I think it's a
better way to put it is. If you're determined to
express yourself in public or you know, pick an audience
that you want to receive whatever it is you're concerned
(38:41):
about in the world through your art, do that. But
I never go about doing this thinking I'm going to
change anybody's mind, that my art's going to change anybody's mind.
That's hubris, I think, you know, come on, you know,
it's just just a picture with a couple of words.
(39:04):
Although one of the yeah, we could leave it there,
but uh, I'm it's not to discourage anybody, you know,
from wanting to make art, uh that expresses their views
on serious subjects or fun subject whatever the subject is,
and having other people see it. Instagram is fantastic for that.
(39:27):
These days, you know, there are many ways, more than
ever to deliver your expression to an audience. And that's
a wonderful thing, you know, Shepherd and I happened. I mean,
he's like, you know, he's he's like Sherwin william paints,
(39:48):
you know, he covers the earth. His distribution is the
key to the kind of effect that he and I
are looking for in street art, you know, like if
you can get a threshold of enough images up around
within in you know, like a city or a particular
(40:10):
area so that it works like this, Like if somebody
sees one of my posters on a traffic light switching
box when they're driving around let's say LA or New
York or wherever, walking around New York or you know,
on the l in Chicago, whatever, if they see one,
they go, what the hell is that? You know, like,
(40:32):
because it's not supposed to be there. It doesn't say
it's not an advertisement for anything, it doesn't have a
website go to this and give me money or for
more information, blah blah blah, none of that. Isn't that
my name, nothing, just the image and two or three
satirical words, So what the hell is that? And then
they're going around they see another one on the street
(40:55):
and they go, wait a minute, I just saw well, uh,
you know, and then they see another one, and another
one they go, wait a minute, something is going on here,
I'm surrounded and they get more of a chance to absorb.
Oh so that's Donald Trump, you know, like, oh so
it says dick. Oh so Donald Trump is a dick.
(41:16):
Oh wait, there's another one. It says dictator. So he's
a potato. No, he's a dictator. You know. Oh, okay,
that happens to be true. You know, it happens to
be what he wants to be. Oh, that's pretty funny,
you know, but it it takes a certain saturation of
(41:37):
urban space, public space to get that point across that.
You know, it's it's not just one little thing, it's
a thing. And he's the greatest at that, and I've
been pretty good at it now. However, as I was saying,
there are lots of other ways you might not have
(41:58):
to go out in the street and you know, expose
yourself to all kinds of dangers and stuff unless you're
in it for the thrill, and there is a thrill.
You can do it on social media on many platforms,
not to mention, you know, like in art galleries and whatever.
(42:20):
And you know, if you're up for selling your art,
and that's the other thing, this kind of distribution, although
It's a very very good form of advertising in a way,
old school advertising, you know, like billboards and you know,
advertisements on bus shelters and all that stuff. It's really
(42:41):
not about selling. It's about disseminating ideas and tickling people.
You know.
Speaker 4 (42:50):
Yeah, it definitely like stimulates the brain like oh wait,
wait what does that mean?
Speaker 3 (42:56):
Hopefully? Yeah, or you know, people a little bit angry
with me, you know, like if everybody liked it, I
wouldn't be doing my job, you know, like have to
take up accounting or some other job. Like I'd be
very depressed. But I also get things wrong. Like in
Los Angeles there was a rampart scandal where the police
(43:18):
at the rampart district of Los Angeles had their own
little gang and they would uh talk about deporting people.
They would uh set people up who they wanted to
get off the streets and you know with cocaine, with
drugs and stuff and say oh they've got drugs and
blah blah blah.
Speaker 2 (43:38):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (43:39):
So, so they had their own little gang. They actually
uh had a little logo of a guy uh with
a dead man's poker hand and they would have it
on T shirts. They had a tattoos and stuff, and
they were terrible, are really terrible. So I did a
(44:01):
post street poster called Disbelief and it was two police
batons crossed and on fire with a policeman lapd badge melting,
you know, so it's like skulling crossbones. And I put
it up all around Rampart, Me and my little gorilla
army put it up all around Rampart, all around LA.
(44:22):
And there was one place in Los Angeles, a bookstore
in Santa Monica that actually sold my street posters, and
Margie who ran it, it was called Midnight Special Books.
And some people, old people from LA will remember it fondly.
I hope. She calls me up and she says, I've
got a guy here who wants to buy a hundred
(44:45):
of your disbelief posters. Do you have them? I said, well,
I have enough to line my crypt you know, like
I have a lot of them. Who is he? And
she says, she asked. His name is Chavez, and I'm going,
oh my god, maybe he's late. That says, oh as
the great, you know, farm workers and a very progressive guy.
(45:05):
This is terrific. And she says, well, he's got twelve
hundred dollars in cash. You know, can you do it?
I said, well, ask him, ask him, you know, like
is he related? And and she comes back to he says, no,
he's a cop from Rampart. They loved the poster if
they think it makes them look tough.
Speaker 4 (45:23):
Oh gosh, that's interesting, Robbie. I did not do a
good job letting you know it's time to wrap up
the show.
Speaker 5 (45:30):
But for that story, and.
Speaker 3 (45:32):
It's always going to their viewers.
Speaker 5 (45:36):
We we are.
Speaker 4 (45:37):
We do have one more minute. But I want to
just say your website again and to spell Robbie R
O B B I E the O N A L
dot com. There's a lot of good information on there.
It's so great to talk to you. And and thanks
for the stories because they always teach us something too.
Speaker 3 (45:56):
Well, it's fun. Those are Thanks for doing what you do.
And you know people are well theme to write me anytime,
uh and I'll try my best to answer them no
matter what they have to say to me.
Speaker 5 (46:11):
Wow, okay, yeah, great, pleasure.
Speaker 3 (46:15):
All part of the service, you know, like we're not
here for nothing. We're here for the American people and
everybody else in the world and all creatures. Great and
small I have all over my face so well.
Speaker 4 (46:28):
Thank you for your for your open mind and your
open heart and and how much inspiration and uplifting you
do for so many people. It's really appreciated, and we
would mistreat art if it weren't out there.
Speaker 5 (46:40):
And I.
Speaker 3 (46:42):
Think there's more out there than ever before and it's great.
Probably thank Trump for that too.
Speaker 4 (46:48):
Yeah, yeah, bringing a lot of stuff up and out.
Thanks for listeners, you power to the people.
Speaker 3 (46:55):
Thank Yousity, Robbie.
Speaker 4 (46:57):
To you awesome solidarity, Thanks for viewers, our listeners, to
rebel our producer Dean and this is always archived on
you foo YouTube.
Speaker 3 (47:10):
And the last name.
Speaker 4 (47:12):
I don't know, you have to find out. Thank you
again everybody. I'm sorry we have to wrap up. We'll
see you next Wednesday at a PM and talk for
TV and W four c Y and maybe all having
riching conversations this week.
Speaker 3 (47:26):
Thank you so much for doing what you do.
Speaker 2 (47:30):
Let's beech, let's speak show in, let's speech in lot, let'spreach,
in let's beach, lot, let's breech
The topics and opinions expressed in the following show are
solely those of the hosts and their guests and not
those of W four c Y Radio. It's employees are affiliates.
We make no recommendations or endorsements for radio show programs, services,
or products mentioned on air or on our web. No
liability explicitor implied shall be extended to W four c
Y Radio or it's employees or affiliates. Any questions or
comments should be directed to those show hosts. Thank you
(00:20):
for choosing W four c Y Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
LOCHI, Let's speech, not check, Let's beak, show in Lot,
Let's breech in Lot, Let's breach, Lot, Let's brich and
(00:47):
lot let.
Speaker 3 (00:54):
In a lot.
Speaker 4 (00:56):
Hello, and welcome to It's Your Voice, the show that
hosts and riching conversations in diversity. My name is Bihia Yaxon.
I am a core alignment coach and a diversity educator,
which means I support train and coach groups, organizations, individuals
and helping them identify how to align their actions with
(01:18):
their values. Often it means that are identifying patterns that
are not serving them and building neuropathways to patterns that
are far more inclusive, create more belonging, and actually make
everyone happier.
Speaker 5 (01:33):
If you're interested in.
Speaker 4 (01:34):
Checking out my website, it's what you want coaching dot
WordPress dot com.
Speaker 5 (01:39):
I'm super excited about the conversation.
Speaker 4 (01:41):
We're going to have tonight with a street artist, Robbie Kanal,
and I wanted to just read a little bit of
his background information and then bring them on and then
finish reading it when you see him on camera, because
it's fascinating.
Speaker 5 (01:56):
And you got to check out his website.
Speaker 4 (01:59):
That's a Robbieconnell and spelled conal dot com. But let
me just tell you who he is and then we'll
get started. So Robbie Kanal grew up on the Upper
West Side of Manhattan, New York, raised by union organizers.
Considered the major arts or major art museums to be
his daycare center. He attended High School of Music and
(02:22):
Art and received a BFA at San Francisco State University
in sixty nine and his Master of Fine Arts in
seventy eight. In nineteen eighty six, angered by the Reagan
administration's rabid abuse of political power in the name of
representative democracy, he began making satirical oil portraits of politicians
(02:42):
and bureaucrats, turning them into street posters. He developed an
irregular guerrilla army of volunteers who helped him poster the
streets of major cities around the country. Over the past
thirty five years, Robbie has made more than one hundred
street posters, satirizing politicians, all stripes, elvangelists, you name it,
(03:04):
the news, entertainment media, global capitalists, and with his unique
brand of humor and insight, he has also taken on
heavier subjects like censorship or social justice and environmental issues
and not to be understood too quickly, He's recently began
applying his wit with great success, on celebratory portraits of
(03:26):
his personal heroes Nelson, Mandela Dundee, the Donnie Lama, Martin,
Luther King, Junior, James Baldwin, Madame Marie Curie, Albert Einstein,
Greta Tunberg with Better Ginsburg, and my angelous. So, Robbie,
come on, I just your website's amazing. H your bio
is amazing, and I just want to read a little
(03:47):
bit more while they can see you here.
Speaker 3 (03:50):
Let me add let me add one little thing to
my resume that maybe is important, maybe, isn't I got
my MFA from Stanford. And I only tell you this
because when I got into the graduate program at Stanford,
my father told me, you got him to make a mistake,
take advantage of it, do everything, and so Stafford was
(04:12):
very good to me. So I just want to get
that in there.
Speaker 5 (04:16):
Nice, thank you? Is it okay? If I just read
a little bit more, because you've.
Speaker 3 (04:20):
Been do anything you want to me, okay.
Speaker 4 (04:26):
I just for listeners and viewers to know. The Washington
Post has called Robbie America's foremost street artist. His work
has been featured on CBS This Morning, Charlie Rose and
in Time Magazine, Newsweek, The New York Times, Los Angeles Times,
Wall Street Journal, The Nation, Vanity Fair, Rolling Stones, People Magazine,
(04:48):
and if You've appeared.
Speaker 5 (04:49):
On numerous TV shows and networks.
Speaker 4 (04:54):
Point you received the National Dominant for the Arts Individual
Art Artist Grant Getty, Individual Artist Grant and Los Angeles
Cultural Affairs Individual Artists Grant.
Speaker 5 (05:05):
No small feats and.
Speaker 3 (05:09):
We get them from mistakes. It's part of my job.
Speaker 4 (05:14):
And your work has been collected by and featured in
exhibitions at the Metropolitan Museum of Art at New York,
the Los Angeles County Museum of Art, the Museum of
Contemporary Art in Los Angeles, and the San Jose Museum
of Art.
Speaker 5 (05:28):
And I love this. Get this. He has also been
a cartoon character on The Simpsons.
Speaker 3 (05:33):
Yeah, that has my one minute of being annoyed in
the United States.
Speaker 5 (05:42):
Well, and I'll just jump to that.
Speaker 4 (05:45):
You have books which include Art Attack, great name, The
Midnight Politics of a Gorilla poster artist art Burn not
your typical political animal, with your wife, Deborah Ross, who
I want to thank who's been so helpful.
Speaker 3 (06:01):
I want to every day every.
Speaker 5 (06:07):
And you got you you know, you two live in
Los Osos, California.
Speaker 3 (06:11):
Now yep, luckily nobody knows where that is fighting out
well except from you.
Speaker 5 (06:20):
Okay, oh great, thank you. It's lucky to meet you too.
Speaker 4 (06:24):
And uh it was Yeah, it was at a rally
or march and where there were all kinds of signs
and like incredible wit and humor and a profound perspective
just on these short little signs, and yours stood out
your stand out and I'm just yeah, just grateful to
(06:46):
have you here.
Speaker 5 (06:47):
And I just want to ask you.
Speaker 3 (06:49):
Let me just say something about those signs uh, okay,
mine are real production numbers, and you know they're from
original art that I make in the studio, like this
guy back here. But then they go through a production
process and finally there are thousands and thousands of them
printed on giant Heielberg presses at Typecraft Ink in Pasadena.
(07:12):
But my favorite thing about going to and we go
to every protest we can, of course got to represent,
but is all the homemade signs that we see, and
and there's a panopley of them. There are more than
I've ever seen in demonstrations before. And my image is
always of little old ladies in their kitchen, at the
(07:34):
kitchen table with their crayons working on these cardboard signs,
you know, handmade and witty and sweet and you know,
so sincere and angry. And I feel the same way.
But I love them very much. And if I were
to collect anything, and I'm not a collector except you know,
(07:56):
like a bad people, I would collec those signs if
they would let me have them. They're fantastic, I agree,
and they agreed. Sign They're a good sign for us
that really doing it, you know what I mean. Yeah,
just yeah, so just yeah.
Speaker 5 (08:13):
Yeah, definitely yeah.
Speaker 4 (08:15):
But yeah, respect and admiration for all the sign makers
out there, and it's so such solidarity and gives us
so much hope. It's just incredible elation. It can be
pretty uh upsetting and depressing. I feel like I feel
isolated when there's heavy issues dropping down. But I want
(08:36):
to ask you for folks who aren't familiar, I love
that in the he said the bio I just read,
I mentioned of a gorilla army, and I looked at
your website and you talked about uh gorilla etiquette. And
for folks, I like to start with kind of definitions,
and I love like, I love what you read about
I wrote about gorilla etiquette, like how you know, be polite, calm, quick,
(09:00):
police approach, you just do what they say, uh leave,
be respectful. But for folks who aren't sure what is
a gorilla artist or political street artists, can you just
like give us a definition?
Speaker 3 (09:11):
Well, I can tell you that you know. My personal
mantra for what I do is apply what you do
best to what you care about most. And so I
could do three things in my life. I could play baseball.
I can't anymore, but I could. I could draw. I
still can do that and I could talk smack, which
(09:32):
I also can still do. So two out of three
ain't bad. And uh, one thing I learned and making,
you know, satirical portraits of very bad people who I think,
you know, have done serious damage to you know, my
favorite subject democracy in America and just in America mostly,
(09:54):
you know, almost exclusively, because that's all I know well
enough to critique. Is that if I just were to
show in art galleries and I do, you know, around
the country, that would be a very limited audience for
(10:15):
my public concerns about very serious public issues that I
care about. And what I wanted to do was somehow
engage in the national conversation about social and political issues
that I care about. And I grew up in New
York and my parents had me, you know, go to
(10:38):
all the major museums as daycare centers. Like you said,
some kids, you know, go to the park and play,
Some polical kids go to their violin lesson. I went
to the Met, the Modern, and the Whitney and hung
out with Guernica at the Modern, who was there then?
And I so, I know, I knew more about art
(10:58):
about social and political issues then I even knew I knew,
and when I got really upset and Ronald Reagan kind
of made me do it about what was going on
and how unforthcoming he and his minions were about what
they were doing to American democracy, I remembered, you know,
the history of street postering, which I had seen in
(11:20):
the museums and you know, around the streets a little
bit but not much, and uh, you know, like Jose
Guadalupe Pasada in Mexico and the great Mexican muralists, and
uh even you know, going back to Domier and Goya
and all that stuff. I knew all that stuff. I
(11:40):
knew about posters and know how to make one. But I
realized that I could translate these nasty little black and
white portraits I was doing I was doing about all
these people I really was concerned about into street posters.
If I could figure out how to make them and
maybe put them up on the streets where I would
(12:01):
have some kind of interaction, my work would have some
kind of interaction, My concerns would have some kind of
interaction with regular people who didn't necessarily go to galleries
or museums but were just going about their daily lives.
And if I make maybe I could like using humor
as my sword, and you know, satirical sword, which there's
(12:26):
also a great history of tickle them into thinking along
with me about subjects that I really cared about and
was concerned about. So I finally, you know, figured out.
I was playing in a co ed softball league in
mar Vista in Los Angeles, and I was complaining about
(12:47):
this while I was at shortstop, and our first baseman
told me, would you please shut up? I have a
small printing company. I'll come after work and I'll show
you how to make a poster, you know. So I
made the pathetic little poster which was about Reagan and
three members of his cabinet called men with No Lips
(13:09):
because it's a terrible almost haiku, but it was referencing
how unforthcoming they were about what they were doing, you know,
like Iran Contra and uh, you know, deregulating everything and
all kinds of stuff that I objected to and I
felt was hurting our democracy. So that's how I started,
(13:34):
and just talk to my best friend. It's kind of
like a Tom Sawyer Huck Finn kind of thing. You know,
you're gonna love going out in the middle of the
night in one of the most dangerous urban areas in
the country, and you know, putting up these posters and
you're gonna be really good at it too, you know. Like,
so we did that. And my second one was women
with Teeth, which was Nancy Reagan and Margaret Thatcher, you know,
(14:00):
and Joan Rivers and Jean Kirkpatrick who was the mother
of the New Right actually in America at the time
she had she was our representative at the un but uh,
it's the only portrait known of her smiling, I think, uh.
And it was women with teeth, you know, being a feminist,
I thought I would have to represent uh, and women
(14:24):
express their power differently from men anyway, sometimes often more effectively,
so men with no lips, women with teeth. And then
I got into specifics. Oh. The other thing was so
I was doing that around LA and then I realized,
wait a minute, I got all my friends in New York.
I could roll up posters, get on a plane. My
(14:46):
friends are all artists. They got nothing to do. You know,
there's glue and brushes in New York. Uh. Maybe I
could list some volunteer guerrillas and put up posters in
New York and when I was in New York. So
wait a minute, that's not very far from Washington, d C,
which is, you know, where all my subjects are. You know,
(15:08):
that's ground zero for.
Speaker 5 (15:10):
My subject Yeah.
Speaker 3 (15:11):
And we knew enough people you know, around d C
as well, and I got to meet some people around
d C so that we enlisted some local volunteers from there.
And then I realized I could go to major cities
around the country with locals, you know, and do Chicago,
(15:33):
do the Bay Area? Of course, Seattle, went to Austin.
I'm not really big ongoing to the South, but I've
been to the South a little bit. Never works out,
but still I almost Kathy Whitmyer, who was the mayor
of Houston, almost got me when I was down there
in the late eighties. But I've had, you know, relatively
(15:58):
contentious relationships with scipalities around the country, including l A.
But uh, it's a form minor form of civil disobedience,
so they're you know, so there. It ain't Martin Luther
King Jr. Or nothing, but it's a little bit of something,
a little bit of good trouble maybe yeah, and then
good yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4 (16:19):
Definitely good trouble. And they and you're you emphasize nonviolence
on your website.
Speaker 3 (16:25):
Oh yeah, we you know. Uh, the idea is to
get them up so people will see them. The idea
is that the police are not our enemy, you know,
like they might think we're their enemies, but I don't
think they are. And and uh, part of guerrilla etiquette,
as you were asking, is to be cosmo polite, you know,
(16:45):
especially with people in dark blue uniforms with shiny accessories
in the middle of the night. Yeah. And I had
lots of conversations with lots of those people. And you know,
the first like when I give talks around the country,
or at least I did, and the first questions I
would always get asked were how many times have you
been arrested? Man? You know? And enough enough times? And
(17:08):
the other is what kind of glue do you use?
Speaker 4 (17:10):
So well, uh they ever asked pointed out, I should
ask you to just say more about like how you
use humor.
Speaker 3 (17:20):
Oh yeah, well so. Colloquial American English is one of
the most subsor subversive forms of communication on the planet. English,
American English especially, but also uh, you know, great British
English can really be turned upside down and shaken for
(17:40):
loose change, and you know, like say Cockney English and
Cockney slang. And Americans are terrific at taking phrases and
taking situations and applying linguistic humor linguish stick. I would
call it to those situations. I'll give you an example,
(18:04):
like the San Diego I'm a baseball fan Dodgers all
my life, but when the San Diego Padres built a
new stadium in downtown San Diego, I happened to go
to a game. I have friends at the Salk Institute
for Biological Studies down there, and I will go down
(18:26):
there quite a bit. And I went to a bar
after a game, after one of the first games at
this new stadium, and it turns out that Petco, the
food you know, like pet food company big had paid
(18:48):
like fifteen million dollars or something to name the stadium Petco,
like the new stadium they you know, they as a
part of their advertising. And I was in a bar
with the people after the game, and they didn't seem
to like the stadium. I said, what don't you like
about it? And I said, well, we're calling it the
litter box perfect, you know, like just bang. And Americans
(19:14):
are very good at that, and I'm pretty into that
as well. So the combination of images and texts, there's
a and text in art, you know, there's a long
tradition of that. And I was inspired by things like
headlines in the tabloids in New York when I was
growing up there, you know, like the New York Post
(19:36):
and the Daily News. They would have you know, like
three or four words like and blaring out at every newsstand.
And I I could do that, you know, like add text,
some kind of punning, humorous short text with these satirical portraits,
(19:56):
and maybe it would make a double whammy, you know,
like uh, maybe they'd work together to make more than
some of its parts. And occasionally that works out, you know.
Speaker 5 (20:07):
I've occasionally.
Speaker 3 (20:12):
Like, so, this is Stephen Miller back here.
Speaker 5 (20:16):
Do you recognize who that is?
Speaker 3 (20:18):
Panta Monica apologizes for him. He went to sam Ohai
and I spent a lot of time in La so
I did the portrait and then the text. You know,
he was on Trump's staff. He still is. So I
called him staff infection, and he is infecting you know,
America and the world with quite the disease. So just
(20:42):
a little bit of humor you know. Yeah, uh yeah,
slice a bad guy down to size maybe a little bit.
So there you go. Okay, so, oh did you get that?
Speaker 5 (20:54):
Uh here's another window.
Speaker 3 (20:56):
Yeah, this is a riff off of the last street
poster I did, which was Trump as Dictator and so
his you know, vice president is Dictator todd like little Dictator.
So we're going to make that. There you go, there's Dictator,
our buddy. And those are posters that have been put
(21:19):
up on phone core and we bring to demonstrations and stuff,
but usually they're put up in the middle of the
night on traffic lights, switching boxes around a city or
construction site walls and stuff like that. Yep, oh my goodness.
Nineteen eighty eight. That's that's about Iran Contra. And that's
(21:40):
the poster where I met my darling wife, Debora Ross
is a great graphic designer and motion and movie title designer.
And yeah the Supreme Court, oh my injustices, yeah, yeah, injustice.
Speaker 5 (21:56):
That's that's powerful.
Speaker 3 (21:58):
Well, here's some of the original art. That's Shepherd Fairies
Gallery in Los Angeles. We had a big show before
the election, and there's little old of me, but you
get to see the scale of them. And I've done
I think I did about eighty of them. You know,
I had nothing to do during COVID anyway, you know,
(22:19):
couldn't go anywhere, just in my studio, playing with my crayons.
And I made more art in those two and a
half years, in that two and a half year period
than any other two and a half year period in
my life.
Speaker 4 (22:33):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (22:34):
And it was all bad, and it is pretty bad.
So I've got a lot of it around here. But
you know, some of it shows shows up on the street,
and most of it shows up on Instagram, you know,
where we can put up you know, one a week
or something, depending on what's going It's always got to
(22:56):
be in response to something that's going on, you know,
in the kind of tree in the culture, in politics.
But I think you mentioned it that Debbie you know whatever.
Once in a while get annoyed with me and say,
can't you do anything positive? You know, like you know,
this is really depressing, and uh, I see, well, like
(23:17):
what you know? And she would say, like whoa who
do you like? How about some inspirational women? You know? Oh, okay, okay,
So a few of those, you know, her being the
first of many, are several and I think the first
one I did was Ruth Bader Ginsburg definitely hero Yeah.
(23:41):
And then I did AOC who I just love, Alexandro
a Cassio Cortez and Gretathunberg, who's the youngest, Yeah, and
a bunch of I did a bunch of them, you know,
and I'm I'm still doing them. But now I have
(24:02):
another thing that I do. I don't know if she
told you about this, and I don't know if it's
very well known, probably not about me, that when I really,
like at three in the morning, when I just can't
I've been painting all day and all night and I
just can't take it anymore, I do knuckleheads, which are
skulls with a word underneath, kind of happy skulls, like
(24:26):
crazy sculls. So I have one that I just did
because I needed a break. We all need a break,
we all need a little positivity. And you can see
him here. He is fun guy and he's a sugar skull,
glitter skull with mushrooms popping out of his head. Happy mushrooms.
(24:48):
So I did a We're doing an addition of Little
Fun Guys, an edition that will probably sell, you know,
like on my website or something in the next few weeks.
But and I'm also working on fun gal because you know,
just like.
Speaker 5 (25:06):
With equity, just like the conclusion, I see, you.
Speaker 3 (25:11):
Know, we got to have some fun. We've got to
have some fun guys and gals get together and do
some stuff. So I'm working. Well, she's over there, just
coming up on the in the studio wall.
Speaker 5 (25:23):
Oh cool. Well, let me ask you a couple of more.
Speaker 4 (25:25):
I want to actually look at a couple more questions
that never pointed out, and then I then I have
a couple that I am uh coming from listening to
you already said. Okay, so let's see if we talked
about it. Yeah, you talked about why humor is so
important in this devor and endeavor. Yes, a great one too.
Speaker 5 (25:46):
Well, a couple here people you.
Speaker 3 (25:47):
Know, like, uh, we've got very depressing subjects. So candy
coating it with a little bit of humor, a little
a little needling, you know, goes a long way. It
ain't John Stewart, but it's something.
Speaker 5 (26:01):
It's definitely something.
Speaker 4 (26:05):
Yeah, I'm curious about how how it feels like afterwards,
Like how is it like cathartic, like like say, like
whether it's the first one that you were angered by,
like what the Reagan administration was doing, or you're angered
about what this like.
Speaker 5 (26:21):
Each time you think of one and produce it, do.
Speaker 4 (26:25):
You feel uplifted, relieved or like Laddie, how do you feel?
And maybe it's not until you have the posters distributed
out on the streets, but like, I'm just curious what it.
Speaker 5 (26:36):
Does for it.
Speaker 3 (26:36):
It is cathartic and it's also addictive. Shepherd Fairy is
a good buddy of mine and we've gone out postering together,
his posters, my posters. We've known each other a long
time and when we talk about this, you know, he
still will has like a bucket of glue and a
(26:57):
roller in the back of his old toota, which drives
his wife Amanda crazy. But we both say, you know,
there's nothing like analog going out in the streets and
doing it yourself or with other people. And the way
I do it a little different from Shepherd, but when
we're out together it's the same. But in Los Angeles,
(27:22):
for those of you who know or don't know, La
Canter's Delhi is kind of the center of Los Angeles.
It's a Jewish delicatest and that's open twenty four to seven.
Everybody knows it. So when we gather up our volunteer
crews in Los Angeles, we meet at Canter's Deli and
I have my own section called Robbie's Hole probably, and
(27:46):
we gather there and you know, fire up on matsa ball,
soup and milkshakes, and I give a little talk about
the particular poster and you know, what we're going to
do and why we're doing it, and then take everybody
out to the parking lot and I have give every
crew of two or three people a roll of posters,
(28:10):
a bucket of glue and a brush or two and
send them out wherever they want to go in the city.
I used to have like this demographic plan, you know,
where I wanted people to go to put up posters
or I thought that would have the most effect. And
then I realized these people are so enthusiastic, you know,
to make a little mischief for something that they believe in.
(28:31):
And actually it's kind of slightly illegal, like being slightly
pregnant to do this because we don't ask for permission.
It's minor civil disobedience, so they're risking something going out
in the middle of the night, not just because it's dangerous,
but because they could get arrested, and they're doing this
for the cause. Let them go where the hell they want,
(28:53):
you know, and usually they just go to their own
neighborhood to tell you the truth. They're like, or they
have a plan, you know, arbeit for me to impose
a plan on them. This is all about a certain
kind of freedom of expression. And so then we send
them out and then we meet if they want to.
We meet at the end of the night at an
(29:15):
all night place, not Cantors, because we've already been there.
There are a couple of Thai restaurants that are open
till three in the morning or so. And then they
get to tell their war stories, you know, like so
we were out there and that the bloody a lot
of this happened, and that happened, and of course we
also one of the things that's very important to me
(29:36):
that I've been trying to that I try to tell
all my street art and graffiti buddies who I know
that you need a good lawyer, you know, you have
to be prepared, especially these days any day, but especially
these days, and have them on call, you know. So
(29:56):
we have the National Lawyer's Guild helps us all over
the country. They have offices chapters all over the country,
and I let them know I'm coming and asked them
if they would look out for us. And you know,
if somebody gets arrested, somebody has some trouble, would they
represent us? And usually they do it pro bono, which
is terrific. And we've been helped immeasurably by them, especially
(30:22):
in places like North Carolina in the South and well
and Boston. Actually, Shepherd mere One and I a mere One,
was a great street artist from Echo Park. In two
thousand and four, we did a national anti Bush, anti
Iraq war poster campaign and went all around the country
(30:45):
putting these things up before the election. And Mirror got
busted in Boston and I didn't because my car was
right behind him and I saw what was happening. But
we went and bailed them out in the morning. But
I mean, of course it's illegal everywhere, so and it
(31:05):
just also depends sometimes on the personal interaction you have
with any officer of the law. At that moment, I've
been sent busted and taken to jail in New York
by Rudy Giuliani's anti graffiti task Force, where the head
of the task force who had me in handcuffs in
(31:26):
the back of his fake taxicab, grumbling that this is
not what he wants to do. He didn't sign up
for this kind of you know, duty busting some little
old guy from California who's putting up posters of Gandhi,
the Dalai Lama and Martin Luther King. You know, like,
he said, this is bullshit. I said, well, we agree
(31:47):
on that. As he takes me to jail.
Speaker 4 (31:51):
I bet there are a lot of officers right now
who are not happy with the pressure on them.
Speaker 3 (31:57):
I think you're right. I think you're right. In the
National Guard people even Marines, like, what are we doing
standing around l A doing nothing for nothing? Yeah? Well sorry,
go ahead, hundreds of them.
Speaker 5 (32:10):
Yeah, nothing sent with no plan, no communication.
Speaker 3 (32:14):
Show, just for show.
Speaker 5 (32:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (32:16):
Anyway, So, what what do you like if you when
you're personally, let's say, confronted by an authority figure.
Speaker 5 (32:26):
Saying that you can't do this, what is like, what
do you do?
Speaker 3 (32:30):
Well? It just depends, you know, like sometimes they'll ask
us to take them down, so we'll do our best
to do that for them and then just go out
there next night and put them back up. Sometimes I
just explained myself, you know, as best I can without
raising any tackles, you know, say, expressing myself in public
(32:53):
about public issues that I care about. And I'm just
one little old person, you know. This is I can't
afford like newspaper ads or TV ads. This is like
the only way I could figure to do it. And
you know, I understand that it's a misdemeanor. And you know,
if you want to write me up, I get it,
(33:15):
you know. And they sometimes they do, sometimes they don't,
you know, like I just copped to it. There's nothing.
I'll tell you a story like I was in Washington,
D C. With a bunch of volunteers in a car
and we were driving around. We put stuff up. I
think it was Jim and Tammy Baker, the televangelists.
Speaker 5 (33:36):
It was.
Speaker 3 (33:37):
A diptych false prophet and we got stopped. Uh. There
are five different kinds of police in Washington, D C.
Just in case you were counting. H And we got
stopped by federal police on the mall and they they
told us to take them down and you know, shut
(33:59):
up and go home. And pay your taxes. Later that night,
we were stopped by District of Columbia police and they
said to me, so you're the guy, you know, like
I'm driving in cars all full of glue and posters
and people, and they said, so you're the Are you
the guy who like putting these posters up all over DC?
I said, yeah, yeah, okay, we have two for the
(34:22):
station house with no glu please, so you never.
Speaker 4 (34:28):
You know, there's one benefit of copying to it? Yeah, yeah,
Well no, it's because you have integrity and compassion.
Speaker 5 (34:41):
Well it is me, you know, like, yeah, put good
with it.
Speaker 3 (34:46):
I'm not myself. I haven't been myself lately for about
forty years because I started this in eighty six, so
it's about thirty nine years now, and I was late.
I could have done it sooner, I would have, you know.
It just took me a while to come around because
I was a stone cold hippie at San Francisco State.
I got kicked out of San Francisco State in sixty
(35:08):
nine by Si Hayakawa for me and a hundred of
my closest friends occupying the Administration building protesting the Vietnam War.
Lost my draft deferment for that, but I wasn't making
art about social and political issues at that time. I
was totally cosmic, you know, still against the war. Wars
(35:33):
are no good for the cosmos either.
Speaker 5 (35:36):
Oh yeah, yeah, it was totally yeah, But.
Speaker 3 (35:40):
I really didn't really, I really didn't really you know,
like get it all together in terms of making art
about specific issues and then you know, presenting it in
public until the early mid eighties. And the person who
helped me the most. The two people who helped me
(36:02):
the most were Leon Gallop and Nancy Sperrow. Leon gallob
probably the greatest political American artist of his generation, and
Nancy Sparrow probably the greatest feminist artists of her generation.
They're married couple from Chicago, but when I met them,
they were living in the West Village in New York,
and they helped me. They were never my teachers, but
(36:26):
they are my mentors. And they helped me, hone my
art down to the basics of like an ugly all
white guy in a suit and tie and two or
three words. I was making these big twelve foot long
canvases with all kinds of stuff in them, and Leon
(36:47):
just told me, you know, like just do the bad guys.
Speaker 4 (36:51):
Wow, that's really interesting to hear because one of my questions,
like the big question I've been wanting to ask you,
is how to help others, Like so many people are
struggling to find their voice, to find their expression, to
find a way to communicate what matters to them and
feel like they can have an impact.
Speaker 3 (37:12):
Well, now there's a question that I would prefer to
do a little dance around, because I only because I mean,
I would never discourage anybody, you know, from trying to
do that. Of course, you know, I've taught all my
adult life, and usually no matter what I'm teaching. I
taught at USC for many years, and you see Santa
(37:35):
Barbara and other places, and no matter what I'm teaching,
I'm usually teaching Robbie one oh one. That's just what
comes out, even if it's figure drawing. You know, it
just comes out Robbie one on one. I had students
who would actually time me, Like figure drawing classes are
usually three or four hours, and so I had groups
(37:56):
of students who would be betting on when I would
go off, you know, when I would jump up on
a table and start ranting about politics. But as for
making any claims about my art, like speaking for myself,
like or even the goal of making art to change
(38:19):
other people's minds about stuff that they care about or
that you care about. I'm not so sure about that,
you know, I'm not sure that. I think it's a
better way to put it is. If you're determined to
express yourself in public or you know, pick an audience
that you want to receive whatever it is you're concerned
(38:41):
about in the world through your art, do that. But
I never go about doing this thinking I'm going to
change anybody's mind, that my art's going to change anybody's mind.
That's hubris, I think, you know, come on, you know,
it's just just a picture with a couple of words.
(39:04):
Although one of the yeah, we could leave it there,
but uh, I'm it's not to discourage anybody, you know,
from wanting to make art, uh that expresses their views
on serious subjects or fun subject whatever the subject is,
and having other people see it. Instagram is fantastic for that.
(39:27):
These days, you know, there are many ways, more than
ever to deliver your expression to an audience. And that's
a wonderful thing, you know, Shepherd and I happened. I mean,
he's like, you know, he's he's like Sherwin william paints,
(39:48):
you know, he covers the earth. His distribution is the
key to the kind of effect that he and I
are looking for in street art, you know, like if
you can get a threshold of enough images up around
within in you know, like a city or a particular
(40:10):
area so that it works like this, Like if somebody
sees one of my posters on a traffic light switching
box when they're driving around let's say LA or New
York or wherever, walking around New York or you know,
on the l in Chicago, whatever, if they see one,
they go, what the hell is that? You know, like,
(40:32):
because it's not supposed to be there. It doesn't say
it's not an advertisement for anything, it doesn't have a
website go to this and give me money or for
more information, blah blah blah, none of that. Isn't that
my name, nothing, just the image and two or three
satirical words, So what the hell is that? And then
they're going around they see another one on the street
(40:55):
and they go, wait a minute, I just saw well, uh,
you know, and then they see another one, and another
one they go, wait a minute, something is going on here,
I'm surrounded and they get more of a chance to absorb.
Oh so that's Donald Trump, you know, like, oh so
it says dick. Oh so Donald Trump is a dick.
(41:16):
Oh wait, there's another one. It says dictator. So he's
a potato. No, he's a dictator. You know. Oh, okay,
that happens to be true. You know, it happens to
be what he wants to be. Oh, that's pretty funny,
you know, but it it takes a certain saturation of
(41:37):
urban space, public space to get that point across that.
You know, it's it's not just one little thing, it's
a thing. And he's the greatest at that, and I've
been pretty good at it now. However, as I was saying,
there are lots of other ways you might not have
(41:58):
to go out in the street and you know, expose
yourself to all kinds of dangers and stuff unless you're
in it for the thrill, and there is a thrill.
You can do it on social media on many platforms,
not to mention, you know, like in art galleries and whatever.
(42:20):
And you know, if you're up for selling your art,
and that's the other thing, this kind of distribution, although
It's a very very good form of advertising in a way,
old school advertising, you know, like billboards and you know,
advertisements on bus shelters and all that stuff. It's really
(42:41):
not about selling. It's about disseminating ideas and tickling people.
You know.
Speaker 4 (42:50):
Yeah, it definitely like stimulates the brain like oh wait,
wait what does that mean?
Speaker 3 (42:56):
Hopefully? Yeah, or you know, people a little bit angry
with me, you know, like if everybody liked it, I
wouldn't be doing my job, you know, like have to
take up accounting or some other job. Like I'd be
very depressed. But I also get things wrong. Like in
Los Angeles there was a rampart scandal where the police
(43:18):
at the rampart district of Los Angeles had their own
little gang and they would uh talk about deporting people.
They would uh set people up who they wanted to
get off the streets and you know with cocaine, with
drugs and stuff and say oh they've got drugs and
blah blah blah.
Speaker 2 (43:38):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (43:39):
So, so they had their own little gang. They actually
uh had a little logo of a guy uh with
a dead man's poker hand and they would have it
on T shirts. They had a tattoos and stuff, and
they were terrible, are really terrible. So I did a
(44:01):
post street poster called Disbelief and it was two police
batons crossed and on fire with a policeman lapd badge melting,
you know, so it's like skulling crossbones. And I put
it up all around Rampart, Me and my little gorilla
army put it up all around Rampart, all around LA.
(44:22):
And there was one place in Los Angeles, a bookstore
in Santa Monica that actually sold my street posters, and
Margie who ran it, it was called Midnight Special Books.
And some people, old people from LA will remember it fondly.
I hope. She calls me up and she says, I've
got a guy here who wants to buy a hundred
(44:45):
of your disbelief posters. Do you have them? I said, well,
I have enough to line my crypt you know, like
I have a lot of them. Who is he? And
she says, she asked. His name is Chavez, and I'm going,
oh my god, maybe he's late. That says, oh as
the great, you know, farm workers and a very progressive guy.
(45:05):
This is terrific. And she says, well, he's got twelve
hundred dollars in cash. You know, can you do it?
I said, well, ask him, ask him, you know, like
is he related? And and she comes back to he says, no,
he's a cop from Rampart. They loved the poster if
they think it makes them look tough.
Speaker 4 (45:23):
Oh gosh, that's interesting, Robbie. I did not do a
good job letting you know it's time to wrap up
the show.
Speaker 5 (45:30):
But for that story, and.
Speaker 3 (45:32):
It's always going to their viewers.
Speaker 5 (45:36):
We we are.
Speaker 4 (45:37):
We do have one more minute. But I want to
just say your website again and to spell Robbie R
O B B I E the O N A L
dot com. There's a lot of good information on there.
It's so great to talk to you. And and thanks
for the stories because they always teach us something too.
Speaker 3 (45:56):
Well, it's fun. Those are Thanks for doing what you do.
And you know people are well theme to write me anytime,
uh and I'll try my best to answer them no
matter what they have to say to me.
Speaker 5 (46:11):
Wow, okay, yeah, great, pleasure.
Speaker 3 (46:15):
All part of the service, you know, like we're not
here for nothing. We're here for the American people and
everybody else in the world and all creatures. Great and
small I have all over my face so well.
Speaker 4 (46:28):
Thank you for your for your open mind and your
open heart and and how much inspiration and uplifting you
do for so many people. It's really appreciated, and we
would mistreat art if it weren't out there.
Speaker 5 (46:40):
And I.
Speaker 3 (46:42):
Think there's more out there than ever before and it's great.
Probably thank Trump for that too.
Speaker 4 (46:48):
Yeah, yeah, bringing a lot of stuff up and out.
Thanks for listeners, you power to the people.
Speaker 3 (46:55):
Thank Yousity, Robbie.
Speaker 4 (46:57):
To you awesome solidarity, Thanks for viewers, our listeners, to
rebel our producer Dean and this is always archived on
you foo YouTube.
Speaker 3 (47:10):
And the last name.
Speaker 4 (47:12):
I don't know, you have to find out. Thank you
again everybody. I'm sorry we have to wrap up. We'll
see you next Wednesday at a PM and talk for
TV and W four c Y and maybe all having
riching conversations this week.
Speaker 3 (47:26):
Thank you so much for doing what you do.
Speaker 2 (47:30):
Let's beech, let's speak show in, let's speech in lot, let'spreach,
in let's beach, lot, let's breech
Popular Podcasts
NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal
Gregg Rosenthal and a rotating crew of elite NFL Media co-hosts, including Patrick Claybon, Colleen Wolfe, Steve Wyche, Nick Shook and Jourdan Rodrigue of The Athletic get you caught up daily on all the NFL news and analysis you need to be smarter and funnier than your friends.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com