January 22, 2025 • 47 mins
Maayan, Naomi, & Leah talk about the history of Israeli Folk Dance, its significance to the story of the Jewish struggle for dignity & liberty, its role in Jewish Cultural Practice, & goals of the Mayim Dance Troupe begun in 2024. They share experiences as Jews in Davis, where Maayan and Naomi grew up & are active members of the Israeli & Jewish communities. Leah is a professor, active in the community, as well as a member of the Countering Antisemitism Committee. Her son is in the dance Troupe.
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It's Your Voice is broadcast live Wednesdays at 8PM ET Music on W4CY Radio (www.w4cy.com) part of Talk 4 Radio (www.talk4radio.com) on the Talk 4 Media Network (www.talk4media.com). It's Your Voice is viewed on Talk 4 TV (www.talk4tv.com).
It's Your Voice Podcast is also available on Talk 4 Media (www.talk4media.com), Talk 4 Podcasting (www.talk4podcasting.com), iHeartRadio, Amazon Music, Pandora, Spotify, Audible, and over 100 other podcast outlets.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
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(00:20):
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Speaker 2 (00:29):
Chic, Let's Speak show in Lotte, Let's breech in Lot,
Let's breach in a lot, Let's get a lot.
Speaker 3 (00:49):
Let's lot.
Speaker 4 (00:56):
Hello, and welcome to It's Your Voice, the show that
hosts enriching conversations in diversity. My name is Bihia Yaxon.
I'm a diversity educator and a core alignment coach, which
means I train teams and organizations to learn how to
identify and disrupt patterns of bias that cause harm to everyone,
(01:16):
and then further to develop new patterns, new attitudes that
lead to more inclusive actions that make life better for everyone.
And if you want to see samples of my workshops
or courses. You can go to my website Know what
you Want Coaching dot WordPress dot com. Today's episode is
called We Will Dance Again with the I Dance Troupe.
(01:40):
I have three guests today, Ion and Naomi and Leah,
but before I fully introduce them, I want to thank
our sponsor. This program is brought to you by the
City of Davis Arts and Cultural Affairs Program and the
California Creative Core Pilot Program, funded by the City's Sacramento's
Office of Arts and Culture and the California Arts Culled Council,
(02:03):
a state agency, as an engagement campaign designed to increase
public awareness about issues of social justice, climate resiliency, and more.
The Creative Core Program, backs by Governor Gavin Newsom and
the state legislature, books to increase public awareness on topics
such as health and safety, water and energy conservation, climate mitigation,
(02:26):
emergency preparedness, social justice, and civic and community engagement. I
went to now introduced Mayan and Naomi and Leah a
little more fully. Mayan and Naomi both grew up in Davis, California,
and both have young children. There are active members of
the Israeli and Jewish communities and started the Miaim Dance
(02:50):
Troupe in twenty twenty four. Leah is a member of
the Davis Jewish Community and her son is a member
of the Miim Dance Troupe. Welcome all three of you.
Thank you so much for being.
Speaker 5 (02:59):
Here, Thank you for having us, Thank you so much.
Speaker 4 (03:04):
You're welcome. So I wanted to first I always like
to hear the origin of my project, someone's group people
have created. So can we start by you letting us
know why you started them Iim Dance Troupe.
Speaker 5 (03:18):
Sure, and we could just go.
Speaker 6 (03:21):
Yeah, So this is my un and I will say
I started this troop in kind of the twofold reasons.
So the first reason was part of my personal transformation
as an Israelian American. I've lived on various cutscenes. So
(03:41):
after the massacre of October seventh.
Speaker 7 (03:44):
I was six months postpartum and I really felt a
lot of fear.
Speaker 5 (03:48):
There was a lot of like very clear messaging.
Speaker 7 (03:52):
There was the day of Global Ghad just a few
days after, and we were actually recommended to close our synagogue.
And then I started doing some advocacy work and I
really felt like, you know, I could be a voice
in our community.
Speaker 6 (04:07):
And then I started going on a personal journey connecting
to my roots, learning more about Judaism and Jewish culture.
Speaker 7 (04:16):
So this was really part of a project of.
Speaker 6 (04:19):
My own relearning and connecting to Israeli folk dancing as
a really quintessential part of modern Jewish culture, as well
as recognizing a need in our community. I was seeing
that there really wasn't very many people that knew deeply
about Jewish culture, neither about anti Semitism, nor about our
(04:44):
culture to people.
Speaker 7 (04:46):
So I don't know if anyone wants to add on
to that.
Speaker 5 (04:50):
Yeah, I mean I can.
Speaker 3 (04:51):
I can say that I grew up with a really
strong background and Israeli folk dance.
Speaker 7 (04:57):
My parents were both folk.
Speaker 3 (04:58):
Dancers, and some of my earliest memories are of like
being a toddler on the side of the folk kancing
circle late at night as my parents would.
Speaker 4 (05:08):
Just again and dance.
Speaker 3 (05:10):
Yeah, And of course, as a child and teen I
rebelled against that and I thought it was lame, But
it's part of who I am, and so I think
part of like part of my desire to join the
dance troupe and my kind of attraction to it is
(05:31):
to create spaces in the Jewish community and the Israeli
American community where we can celebrate our like f cultural
heritage together in a positive and empowering way.
Speaker 5 (05:48):
So much my story is a little bit different because
I didn't really grow up in a lot of Jewish culture,
and it's something that I've worked had to work really
hard to incorporate into my family's life because my aunt
(06:09):
sort of talked about this like her own journey and
her own spiritual journey, and I have very much felt
to be on my own journey as well, and when
you're a parent, that involves kind of bringing your family
along as well. So wanting to find these pieces that
(06:32):
I can share with my children that they will find
joyous and celebratory and connect in ways that sort of
go beyond book learning. I guess right to be fully
in the culture and dance and music is just it's
(06:53):
so universal it sucks everybody in. Can I add a
lot more? Sorry this is now.
Speaker 3 (07:01):
I just wanted to add one more thing, which is
that I think for myself, like following the trauma of
October seventh that myann already mentioned, I was holding so
much panic in my body, like so much sight of
panic and this kind of kind of working through using
(07:24):
our body and using movement in kind of a somatic.
Speaker 5 (07:28):
Way to move through these feelings.
Speaker 7 (07:32):
What has been huge for.
Speaker 4 (07:34):
Me that totally makes sense, heeling through movement in this
form of art. Well, thank you, Thank you for sharing
you know, deeply personal, very painful experiences in the part
of your personal transformation. And just for people listening and
(07:56):
for the ease of knowing who's talking. Can we just
continue going kind of in this order with may aunt
and then knowing me and then uh leah and the
answering questions okay, try yeah or whatever just in case yeah, yeah,
(08:17):
we'll just let it flow. We'll just let it flow.
But that way I won't have to say okay you next, Right.
So what are besides like the you know, the response
to trauma which is completely understandable and yeah, acted so
many people so many ways, and the healing aspect and
(08:39):
connecting to like ruts and ancestry and sharing with your family.
What what else are what are the goals of the
dance troupe any additional goals you might have.
Speaker 7 (08:50):
So I think this idea of connecting to the younger generations.
Speaker 6 (08:54):
At our first performance there were actually three generations, which
was really incorrect edible, and it was really a big
part of who we are as Jews is about teaching
the next generation. And there's a very interesting conversation that
we had after the first performance about resisting assimilation and
(09:19):
kind of how do we.
Speaker 7 (09:21):
Engage in society as a people as Americans and not
lose who we are.
Speaker 6 (09:27):
So there were people from many different cultures, both in
the audience and in the performance.
Speaker 7 (09:33):
And this is something that Jews have done really well
over time, and then we're finding in recent generations, probably
even I would say just the last few decades, that
there are.
Speaker 6 (09:46):
A lot of people in the Jewish community who don't
really know our history and we don't really know what
we've gone through.
Speaker 7 (09:53):
But also the beautiful parts the wisdom that we have.
Speaker 6 (09:58):
And one thing that I really love about Jewish folksance
in particular is that it incorporates.
Speaker 7 (10:05):
Cultures from all over the world.
Speaker 6 (10:07):
So it's a really essential part both of our celebrations
at weddings, it's really an important part at our mitzvah's,
even at Jewish summer camps. But it's also this beautiful
thing where people from all over the world came together
and could learn these dances from all different cultures. Anyone
(10:28):
else want to add, sure, Yeah, go ahead.
Speaker 4 (10:32):
Sorry, I'm sorry, but that's just like you know, that
in and of itself is just interesting to think about.
Like well, you know, of course there's a whole wide
spect there's different sects of Judaism and a homeworde spectrum
of who's Jewish and what is Jewish and then the
cultural influence depending on where right where you grew up,
where you live. So I appreciate you know, just that
(10:56):
including cultures from all over the world. Thanks for letting
me interject that.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
Yeah, and I mean.
Speaker 5 (11:03):
Mayan put it beautifully, this is this is Naomi.
Speaker 3 (11:07):
You know, I think part of it for me, part
of the goals for me a is, yeah, educating our
community about who we are and where we come from,
and also educating.
Speaker 5 (11:20):
Kind of the larger community we live in.
Speaker 3 (11:23):
You know, Jews are only two percent of the population
of the glow of the US and point two percent
of the global population, and so and we're not a
proselytizing religion.
Speaker 5 (11:37):
So I think historically, like people.
Speaker 7 (11:41):
Don't know a lot about Jews, and you know, we're
not just a religion.
Speaker 3 (11:47):
We're an ethno religious tribe and like I think a
lot of Americans.
Speaker 7 (11:53):
Relate to Jews just as a religious This is just as.
Speaker 5 (11:58):
A religion, but we're really not that. We're best understood
as the tribal peoples.
Speaker 3 (12:02):
And you know, after the exile from Jerusalem many thousands
of years ago, Jews were really dispersed all over the
world through different immigration patterns.
Speaker 5 (12:16):
And part of the really cool.
Speaker 3 (12:18):
Thing about Israeli folk dances it combines Russian folk dances
that Jews did in well in the former you know,
Soviet Union and even prior to that, and you know
Yemenite traditional Yemenite dances that Jews from Yemen brought with them,
and just it's a really interesting way to learn about
(12:42):
the history of Jews in the world through.
Speaker 5 (12:45):
An art form.
Speaker 7 (12:46):
This is Mayan again.
Speaker 6 (12:48):
I just wanted to add also that one thing that
I was realizing over this year is.
Speaker 8 (12:53):
That if we don't tell our story, other people will,
And I think this is probably true a lot of
other minorities, right like we.
Speaker 6 (13:04):
We need to be the ones to tell our story.
So this was another opportunity for that. So yeah, again,
thank you for including us on the podcast. And I'm
sure I'm not the only guest to say that we
really appreciate being seen. So I think that's a really
that's a really important part of what this is about
as well.
Speaker 4 (13:26):
I appreciate you being here, Yes, be seen.
Speaker 7 (13:31):
This is this is now.
Speaker 5 (13:35):
I really resonate, you know, with both what Mayan and
Naomi said about sort of the cultural piece and the
you know, resisting assimilation and resisting other other people's definitions
(13:55):
or descriptions of you and thinking about getting my it's involved.
I think in Naomi was talking about this in terms
of the sort of tribal identity, is that we Jews
consider ourselves part of a peoplehood. Our identity is deeply
(14:16):
tied within that sense of community, a small community, a
small global community, and we are even smaller when you're
talking about Davis, right, Davis has a really small Jewish community,
And so instilling that sense of peoplehood you have to
really do it in a concerted way.
Speaker 7 (14:39):
It's not going to happen naturally.
Speaker 5 (14:42):
Your kids are not going to just end up with
a Jewish identity by growing up in Davis. It's something
that you need to immerse them in. And I want
my kids to understand and connect with jew Wish people
in the peoplehood and Jewish identity beyond sort of walking
(15:06):
into a synagogue, which is an important part but a
small part of who we are.
Speaker 4 (15:16):
Yeah, that makes sense all aspects and just emphasizing it's
not just a religion, it's a tribe, it's ethnicity, culture.
So what else does it mean to be a part
of this project? For Leah, I appreciate you mentioning children.
(15:36):
What does it mean for your families to be a
part of this project?
Speaker 8 (15:41):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (15:41):
For me, and this is sorry, this is I mean
we're going to go out of order because everyone's looking
at me.
Speaker 4 (15:46):
Oh, no problem. I just wanted people to I just
want to clear I just wanted people to clarify who's speaking.
It doesn't matter the order, so people know.
Speaker 3 (15:59):
Is the me And for me, it's like really coming
full circle to my family's kind of history.
Speaker 7 (16:06):
I mean, my.
Speaker 3 (16:07):
Parents met at an Israeli folk dancing night in New
York in the seventies, and Israeli folk dance has been
has like shaped their lives. It's probably the reason I'm
here right, And so's it's like an art form that
(16:28):
I you know, it's I mean my like I said,
I have memories of it from an early child, when
I was a teenager and I was going to summer camp.
Speaker 5 (16:39):
We would like my.
Speaker 3 (16:40):
Favorite memories are folk dancing Friday night and Saturday night,
the whole camp, and.
Speaker 5 (16:48):
It's just like really coming full circle.
Speaker 3 (16:51):
And honoring you know, my mom and my dad and
even their parents who were folk dancing in the in
the early early days of Israel.
Speaker 4 (17:01):
So wow, that's nice. That's nice, nice image memories.
Speaker 7 (17:07):
I guess there is one more aspect too.
Speaker 6 (17:09):
This is my un speaking, this idea of kind of
grief and joy being intertwined in Judaism, that you know,
despite the grief, despite.
Speaker 5 (17:23):
The pain, we go forward enjoy. So you know, at
a wedding, we'll.
Speaker 7 (17:29):
Break the glass, right then the man will step on.
Speaker 5 (17:33):
A glass and break it.
Speaker 6 (17:35):
We we we are remembering that we are not a whole,
we are not returned to our temple. So there are
so many different aspects.
Speaker 7 (17:45):
Of the other way around too.
Speaker 6 (17:47):
Right where it's been this very devastating, devastating year. You know,
anyone connected with Israeli family, which both of us have,
know someone who was a lot in October seventh or
the month since, and you know, I know that that's
an experience that a lot of us have had who
(18:08):
have family in the Middle East, and it was something
that I really felt like, we have this opportunity.
Speaker 7 (18:18):
To dance again.
Speaker 5 (18:19):
Right.
Speaker 6 (18:20):
We talked about the Nova Festival, which was this place
where just so many young people were slaughtered, and both
Naomi and I have been to parties in Israel in
the desert.
Speaker 7 (18:30):
You know, it felt very close to home.
Speaker 6 (18:32):
And as we came upon the year anniversary of the
October seventh massacre, there was this question of do we celebrate? Right,
it was on Suhat Torah where we danced with the
Torah and can you know, can we be joyous?
Speaker 7 (18:50):
Can we be joyous at such a dark time? And
I think it's a really important.
Speaker 6 (18:54):
Part of who we are as Jews that we have
to continue going forward. And you know, maybe maybe it's
not even just a Jewish maybe it's really as human beings.
Speaker 7 (19:05):
We have to be able to set aside our grief
and come back together.
Speaker 6 (19:11):
So there's there's also an aspect of Israeli folk dance
that's that's a lot of it is a circle.
Speaker 7 (19:19):
So there was something also very healing. I think Naomi
touched on that as well.
Speaker 6 (19:23):
There was something very healing about coming together and kind
of moving as one with this in breath and out
breath kind of gesture that was really amazing.
Speaker 4 (19:33):
So it is amazing, And that's yeah, that's really really
well put. And like you said, I appreciate how you,
you know, touch on the universal aspect, how we can
both definitely within you know, from your own culture and
your own people and try but also recognizing the need
(19:54):
to be able to keep moving forward. And I'm just
trying to be as articulate as you were. What did
you say, like, can we celebrate again? Do we celebrate
again at dark times that as human beings we have
to set aside our grief and come together again?
Speaker 7 (20:12):
Right?
Speaker 8 (20:12):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (20:13):
Can I piggyback on that? Myan this is name? I mean,
I was just like.
Speaker 3 (20:17):
Thinking even broader about how important it is for marginalized
communities too, like speak for themselves and show their colors
and not maths, and kind of like my own experience
and and how that relates to dance to Israeli folk dance,
like I think that as a as.
Speaker 7 (20:39):
A child, like like any marginalized community.
Speaker 3 (20:44):
I definitely experienced my fair share of anti Semitism, whether
it was just friends, even friends in my social circle
making like low key anti Semitic comments about like trope
classical anti Semitic tropes about me being too stingy, or
(21:05):
making Holocaust jokes even and then you know, in nineteen
ninety nine, I'm not sure if you're aware of this,
but in nineteen ninety ninety nine, several synagogues in Sacramento
or firebomb, including the one that my family went to.
So like, I experienced, you know, everything from just day
to day, like anti anti Semitic speech from people.
Speaker 7 (21:29):
Who I was supposed to from people who were supposed.
Speaker 3 (21:32):
To have my back, to actual violence, you know, pretty
pretty serious violence. And so I think a lot of
like as I grew as a teenager, I think I
really leaned into masking the fact.
Speaker 5 (21:45):
That I was Jewish, because then I just wouldn't have
to deal with it, you know. And as an adult, and.
Speaker 3 (21:52):
As like having young kids and looking at them and
struggling with what Leah touched on, like how am I
going to pass down an identity there and a Jewish
identity to them that was both meaningful and and joyous
and and this dancing endeavor and this art form is
(22:14):
to me a way to show pride, to show pride
in who we are, and hopefully to share something beautiful
with others about who we are.
Speaker 5 (22:26):
This is this is Leah. I everything that Naomi just said,
I like snaps. I totally agree with.
Speaker 7 (22:36):
It's you know, I I moved around a lot as
a kid.
Speaker 5 (22:39):
I lived in three different countries, on three different continents,
and it didn't matter where I lived, you know, I
always faced anti Semitism. My synagogue was also firebombed. I
went to preschool there. I was I was younger, but
(23:02):
that's that's like a seared memory for me. And you know,
the comments from teachers, the comments from peers, holocaust jokes,
it's you hear. You hear a lot. And you know,
(23:24):
my my kids have have faced it, you know when
we when we moved here, I actually didn't assume that
we would face it to the same degree, you know,
and you get the the micro aggressions or the insensitive
sort of comments, and you sort of expect that that's
(23:46):
sort of a level of you know, maybe ignorance or
you know, for from kids, curiosity or just trying to
figure out what's what you you you expect that at
at some level, but I didn't expect the level of
anti Semitism that my kids have based in this year. Davis,
(24:11):
I think has such an ethos of inclusivity, one that
we really gravitated to and moving here, right, That's part
of the attraction of living in Davis is the community here,
the bike paths and this really wonderful community. And shortly
(24:33):
after October seventh and my son used to used to
always wear a star of David and a kid looked
at his started David. This was maybe November twenty twenty three,
so again shortly after October seventh, and a kid looked
at him and he said, are you Jewish and then
threatened to kill him. When my son said yes, and
(24:55):
I'm so sorry, thank you.
Speaker 3 (24:58):
It you know it.
Speaker 5 (25:00):
It shook my son and he wore star a little
bit after that and then hasn't since. And I want
him to know that there is joy in being Jewish, right, Like, yes,
(25:20):
being Jewish does come. Unfortunately in this society with anti Semitism,
it does, and so we have to prepare kids for that.
Part of raising Jewish kids is preparing them for anti Semitism.
And I know that that's not a uniquely Jewish thing, right,
that's a uniquely minor identity experience of having those conversations
(25:44):
with your kid. But it can't it can't just be
that otherwise, you know, That's what it was talking about
that you you push back, you reject, you want to hide,
Like what is there to come to in this identity
if it is just scary and hateful? Like why step
(26:05):
into that space? And you know, when I told my
son about this dance troupe, I actually wasn't sure what
his response was going to be, but I was so
relieved that he was so excited and all the way through,
(26:26):
like he just loved being a part of the dance troupe.
It was something that absolutely brought him joy. He knows
that like this is a unique cultural piece of him,
This is part of his identity, and it is all
mixed up in those pieces that are difficult, but it's
(26:47):
it's so important that we instill those those pieces of
joy and pride as well. And I'm just really thankful
to Mayan and Naomi for providing this experience for him.
Speaker 4 (27:01):
Well, that's so important. I'm so glad that he has
that's the place, this community, this art form that's healing
and embraces him and reflects the beauty of himself and
his family and his people. Yeah, that's such an important
(27:22):
I'm sorry. I'm just appreciating how important that is.
Speaker 5 (27:26):
Yeah, and you know, they're just back to my son.
When when it got around, right, kids here about these things.
When it got around that a kid with the Star
of David was threatened, everybody knew it was my son because,
(27:49):
as another little Jewish girl said, he's the only one
brave enough to wear it.
Speaker 4 (27:57):
Yeah, this is a lot. Yeah, yeah, it's it's Yeah,
I've seen it, seen it and heard it and not
not just in schools. But yeah, I'm so sorry.
Speaker 8 (28:07):
I hurts. Yeah.
Speaker 5 (28:10):
Yeah, you want to you want to protect your kids,
but there's so much that you can do.
Speaker 6 (28:18):
Well, I'll just talk about that a little bit too,
because that was a really big part of my own transformation.
Speaker 7 (28:25):
Was actually well just going back to to my upbringing.
So I grew up in Davis, and I don't really
remember facing a lot of anti Semitism in the traditional sense.
Speaker 6 (28:39):
I I overheard a Holocaust choke some kids were saying
outside in elementary school, but I don't really remember.
Speaker 7 (28:47):
A lot of overt incidents other than.
Speaker 6 (28:49):
Hearing about the fire bombings and Sacramento. You know, so
I was always nervous in the synagogue, But what I
did experience was a lot of anti Zionism. So it
was a really interesting process that I feel like I've
been learning about a lot over the past year. Where
(29:13):
it got to the point where people would ask me
where my name is from, and I would say that
it's Hebrew because I didn't want to.
Speaker 7 (29:18):
Say it's Israeli and it's not a biblical name.
Speaker 6 (29:21):
It is specifically a new kind of nature hippie Israeli
name that I just it was such a hot button
issue for so many people growing up in Davis and
going to university in Santa Cruz, I just learned sometimes
it was easier to avoid it, and that was something,
(29:44):
you know, I've also there was one incident where I
was applying to a housing co op and it was
going wonderfully, and then they found out that I had
done some volunteer work in Israel and very quickly showed
me off the door. So there was Yeah, there were
a few incidents where it was very clearly not about my.
Speaker 7 (30:06):
Politics, because my politics, so it's been very left you know,
very progressive.
Speaker 6 (30:11):
It really was specifically about my identity as in Israeli,
as an Israeli American, and I found that over the
last year, especially people who are kind of politically progressive
have faced such an upheaval of loss of friendships.
Speaker 7 (30:33):
Loss of community. You know, people who have disabilities feeling unsafe.
Speaker 6 (30:41):
There are people who are in the queer you know,
LGBTQ communities really facing.
Speaker 7 (30:47):
A lot of isolation.
Speaker 6 (30:51):
On the back of all these anti Semitic events that
we were hearing about. There was also the personal loss
and experience of Isola. So I've actually become friends with
both Naomi and Lia over the last you know whatever,
it is a year and a half, almost since October seventh,
(31:12):
where I really recognized that I can be a part of.
Speaker 7 (31:18):
These spaces that make me feel safe and make me
feel welcome. I guess the other thing that I wanted
to add was this fear that I mentioned.
Speaker 6 (31:29):
Earlier, where I just felt so much hate, I felt
so much aggression.
Speaker 7 (31:34):
There was actually a number of messages that.
Speaker 6 (31:40):
We should be fearful, that we should you know, there
was a professor at UC Davis or an assistant professor
who said that we have addresses and children, and we
should fear our bosses, but we should fear them more.
Speaker 5 (31:54):
That was about Zionus.
Speaker 7 (31:56):
So it was really like a lot of messaging around violence.
Speaker 5 (32:01):
And hate, and I was really shocked when.
Speaker 7 (32:05):
Those messages weren't countered in our communities.
Speaker 6 (32:09):
And that was something that I just really feel like,
it's so important that we stand up against bigotry and hate,
no matter who it's directed at.
Speaker 7 (32:21):
So, yeah, I just let me say I'm sorry. I
was trailing into too many different thoughts. I want to say,
I'm matteric oh no, no, oh, yeah.
Speaker 6 (32:29):
So the last thing that I wanted to say was
that it was very important to me, Like we were
talking about how it's important that we define ourselves and
not let other people define us. So one thing that
I really had no idea how prevalent.
Speaker 7 (32:50):
Misinformation about the Jewish people are.
Speaker 6 (32:53):
So one thing that I've really been recognizing is that
people think that there are multiple definitions for Zionus, but
actually only the Jewish people get to define Zionism, right,
Only Zionists get to define.
Speaker 5 (33:06):
Who they are, right.
Speaker 7 (33:08):
So this is something that I feel like people are creating.
Speaker 6 (33:13):
False definitions and then categorizing Zionists as something to be hated.
Speaker 7 (33:20):
So I just wanted to define Zionism for a second,
if that's all right.
Speaker 6 (33:25):
It's the belief of wanting Israel to exist as a
Jewish state and supporting the existence of the Jewish state.
Speaker 7 (33:31):
It has nothing to do with the policies. It has
nothing to.
Speaker 6 (33:34):
Do with current events, you know, I think, especially for
those of us who are progressive, there's a.
Speaker 7 (33:40):
Huge range in what we think about what's happening.
Speaker 6 (33:43):
It just simply means that we think that we have
a right to and not even just Jews, right, it's
a right to self determination in our ancestral lands.
Speaker 7 (33:55):
And it's not a zero sumbol right.
Speaker 3 (33:57):
So it's not it's not a belief that they're shouldn't
be a Palestinian state. It doesn't apply as to what
the borders of Israel should be or should look like.
It's just a belief that Jews have the right to
self determination in their ancestral homelands, just like everyone else.
And it doesn't it doesn't, you know, institute someone's indigenoity
(34:18):
as being more important than in other people's at all.
Speaker 7 (34:21):
I mean, so many people are indigenous.
Speaker 3 (34:23):
To that piece of land, right, So when other people
start putting alternative definitions, it's really hard.
Speaker 7 (34:32):
Like I had a parent in my daycare say ask me,
are you a Zionist? And I was like, I'm not
sure what it is that you've heard, right, So that
was something that I've really just been kind of slapped
in the face this year with this idea.
Speaker 6 (34:46):
Of like everyone thinks that they get to define, you know,
and really we need to ask people who identify.
Speaker 7 (34:54):
I don't know if you have a better kind of
anti bias way of explaining that, but I feel like,
you know, we really need to let people find themselves
and speak for themselves. Anyway, Yeah, it's been it's been this, Naomi.
Speaker 5 (35:07):
Again, it's been like.
Speaker 3 (35:08):
Super perturbing for me to see in all of these
like amazing creative spaces that I have been a part of,
like places in the university where signs have gone up
that say no homophobes, no racist, no Zionists, and it's
equating Zionism with those terms. And it's just so disheartening
(35:32):
to see other people try to kind of co opt
how we define our own belief system as Jews and
then weaponize it against us.
Speaker 7 (35:42):
And I think part of it is just this lack
of education too, where people.
Speaker 3 (35:46):
Don't know a lot about Jews, Like a lot of
people can't even point to Israel on a map, and
yet it's this hot button issue, and so it's so
important I think for all of us to just like
make a beat, make a paw u feasible, remember how
to engage. We're trying to have a society.
Speaker 6 (36:09):
But I just wanted to say again how much I
appreciate this podcast because there's really so few spaces to
engage with people that we don't necessarily agree with, and
I feel like so many things that we agree about right,
there's so so many shared values and really having an opportunity.
Speaker 7 (36:28):
To listen to someone that you might not listen to otherwise,
or to speak in a space that you know.
Speaker 5 (36:38):
Even even at the art Fest.
Speaker 7 (36:40):
When we were performing, one of the teenagers said, I'm
really scared. I'm really scared, Like there's really jodancing, is
there going to this? Is someone going to come? It
was not political, it was just just the term. And
so I think it's really it's really appreciated to have
these spaces where.
Speaker 6 (37:01):
We can just kind of just talk together again and
answer questions and you know, I think, you know, cancel
culture is another issue where people are so scared to
ask the wrong question, they're so scared to use them
that they just end up not talking. And I think
it's really important that we have opportunities like this where
we can talk again.
Speaker 4 (37:23):
Yes we're Yeah, our brain freeze up so many times
and conversations don't happen, and that's that's why. That's why
I think, and I know conversations are so so so important.
I know that teaching history in the United States has
been very lacking and very narrow, and I don't thank
God that it's getting better over time in some schools
(37:48):
in some places, but we've always had a problem with ignorance,
and in course misinformation is like a thousand times of
course more and ongoing now. But I just like, I
just think every conversation is it's so important too. I
every conversation it's so helpful to like what what does
(38:11):
that word mean to you? Like, what's my definition, what's
your definition, what's my understanding? What's your understanding? And usually
if we're like you know, actually present and opening our hearts,
we're learning more like oh okay, that's oh okay, Well,
that's not what I was told or that's what I learned,
or that's not what I thought. And and you know,
(38:34):
and frankly, I have heard a number of definitions of
sism and ill and I just feel like, as as
I hope my listeners know, for me, it's about cultivating understanding.
And it mean it might be like in a dialogue
with someone like conversation three, I'm like, that's not I
(38:55):
don't think that. I don't agree, like that's okay, But
if you're like, one thing I remember learning from the
I used to from it's Marshall Rosenberg's Non Violent Communication.
When one thing I remember a principle I remember from
that book years ago, years ago, was what's more important
(39:17):
to you to be right or to connect? And it
doesn't mean we don't want to learn or grow or
be clear about what my experience is of whatever the
word whatever we're talking about. Of course I want to
be able to convey what I think and what I
feel and what you think and what you feel. But
I think it's building relationship and then the process of
(39:40):
understanding each other. There's moments where like I might not
think the same thing, but that's of course we're not
carbon copies of each other.
Speaker 7 (39:50):
Opportunities for you to be like, when you say that
this is what I hear, can you clarify? And if
we're not, if we're not engaging with someone who disagrees
with us, when.
Speaker 9 (40:00):
Are we ever given that opportunity, right, even just to
have that echo of just like, oh, I didn't realize
that's what you that's what you were hearing.
Speaker 7 (40:11):
Right, let me let me be more specific, let me
give you an example, right.
Speaker 6 (40:16):
And that's something that I think is really important too,
is is being aware of the messaging. Like, we have
a lot of issues on social media where we're getting
these echo chambers, especially with AI, right, we're kind of
getting these echo chambers of what we think the other
thinks about us and what we think.
Speaker 5 (40:35):
The other things we think.
Speaker 6 (40:38):
Right, So I think it's really important to have those
actual in person conversations just be like, wait a second.
Speaker 7 (40:45):
Let's let's clarify that, let's let's break that down a
little bit and not loving lumping together the other.
Speaker 4 (40:54):
He wants and that that's making me. Remember I think
it was my first phone conversation and with you Lea,
when we were talking about how our like society at
large has it, you know, pits people together, right, the
divide and conquer and don't get to know, don't get
(41:15):
to know the other person, because we want to have
If you work collectively and together, you might create peace
instead of giving a small select authoritarian government control. And
we have authoritarian government several places. But you and I
were talking about we were through the culture air people
(41:36):
and Jewish people are supposed to not get to know
each other, and how like that's so unfair and so
harmful and so purtful and destructive for everybody, and how
do how do we so, how do we step out
of that norm? Well, we get to know each other
when we had I'm sorry, I just want to add
(41:58):
one more thing. And we also acknowledge that for the
most part, I don't know how much. For the most part,
I grew up in the country. For the most part,
I grew up and lived and was able to have
the privilege of not being in a war zone and
being safe. And I remember you and I said, you know,
a privilege of being safe and not not shot at,
(42:21):
not bomb not being in a context of violence constantly.
It's not only a we have the privilege of reaching
out and trying to connect and develop relationships and understand
where each other's coming from. Do you want to add
to that, Leah, Do you remember that conversation?
Speaker 5 (42:39):
Yeah, you know, I just our society is so incredibly
polarized in this you know, where we exactly what you
were saying of just pushing us away from each other.
And and you know, I think that that erodes at
our democracy. If we're not able to sit and work
(43:02):
through hard things together, then it will be you know,
fascist or authoritarian takeover. Right Like if you if you
cannot work together as a society, then it will just
be one side strong arming the other side. You know,
we are democracy depends on being able to to connect
(43:25):
and work together. And you know, I think that anti
Semitism in particular breeds in in this space of societal conflict,
in polarization, because a lot of anti Semitism can just
(43:45):
be boiled down to conspiracy theory, the you know, the
the all powerful Jew that is the source of all
of your problems, Right, that's sort of the myth of
anti Semitism, which is why it's so appealing on both
ends of the are all ends of a of the
political spectrum. And you know, when when we see this
(44:09):
rise in polarization, we see this rise and and anti semitism,
which I know you were you were not going in
that direction, so a different direction, but no, I think
you know what what you were saying is that in
all sorts of of fashions and places in society, we're
(44:30):
not connecting. I mean, socioeconomically, we're incredibly segregated, and so
just so many space.
Speaker 4 (44:39):
I'm sorry, I'm cutting off because we have only one minute.
It just like flew by, I'm sorry. And also, yeah,
that we learned different histories, like we also talked about
there are different histories about the Middle East, and so let's.
Speaker 5 (44:51):
Talk about them, right, So I'm sorry.
Speaker 4 (44:54):
You guys have, like, you know, just a few seconds
to say your closing thought. Do you want to start
with Maya?
Speaker 8 (45:01):
Sure?
Speaker 7 (45:02):
I just again wanted to thank you for this.
Speaker 6 (45:04):
I think it was a really important conversation and I
really hope that there will be more.
Speaker 7 (45:10):
I hope.
Speaker 6 (45:10):
I don't know if your listeners are mostly local, but
I really I really hope that people start reaching out,
whether it's online or in person, and.
Speaker 7 (45:20):
Start reaching out. You know, I've actually had.
Speaker 6 (45:22):
A number of people in the Arab community, come and
talk about how similar their dances are to the dances that.
Speaker 5 (45:30):
We were doing.
Speaker 6 (45:31):
Right, Like, even among people who we feel so divided
at this particular time, we can still find where we
have commonalities.
Speaker 7 (45:42):
So yeah, like, find people that.
Speaker 6 (45:45):
Are in your community, that are in your friend's circle,
that are in your classes, find people that you can
connect to and try to figure out what you have
more in common about and what you.
Speaker 7 (45:57):
Have difference is about. You know, start atre adding curiosity
to that.
Speaker 4 (46:02):
We do you have a closing thought, just.
Speaker 10 (46:04):
Just deep gratitude for the opportunity to have open and
open heart and open mind conversations with each other and
to continue that.
Speaker 7 (46:15):
So just a big thanks to you and your your podcast.
Speaker 2 (46:20):
Thank you.
Speaker 4 (46:21):
You have a couple of words, Leah, just give you
one word.
Speaker 5 (46:24):
Thank you so much, and hopefully the conversation will continue.
Thank you, Thank you, Thank you all.
Speaker 4 (46:30):
Maybe everyone tune in next Wednesday at eight pm Eastern
Time at W four c Y dot com or talk
for TV and maybe we all have enriching conversations diversity
this week. Thank you.
Speaker 2 (46:43):
Let's speech, Let's speak sure in lot, let's speech in lot,
Let's reach all a logic galletwich a largic gallets pitched
(47:05):
a high
The topics and opinions express in the following show are
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We make no recommendations or endorsements for radio show programs, services,
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(00:20):
for choosing W four c Y Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Chic, Let's Speak show in Lotte, Let's breech in Lot,
Let's breach in a lot, Let's get a lot.
Speaker 3 (00:49):
Let's lot.
Speaker 4 (00:56):
Hello, and welcome to It's Your Voice, the show that
hosts enriching conversations in diversity. My name is Bihia Yaxon.
I'm a diversity educator and a core alignment coach, which
means I train teams and organizations to learn how to
identify and disrupt patterns of bias that cause harm to everyone,
(01:16):
and then further to develop new patterns, new attitudes that
lead to more inclusive actions that make life better for everyone.
And if you want to see samples of my workshops
or courses. You can go to my website Know what
you Want Coaching dot WordPress dot com. Today's episode is
called We Will Dance Again with the I Dance Troupe.
(01:40):
I have three guests today, Ion and Naomi and Leah,
but before I fully introduce them, I want to thank
our sponsor. This program is brought to you by the
City of Davis Arts and Cultural Affairs Program and the
California Creative Core Pilot Program, funded by the City's Sacramento's
Office of Arts and Culture and the California Arts Culled Council,
(02:03):
a state agency, as an engagement campaign designed to increase
public awareness about issues of social justice, climate resiliency, and more.
The Creative Core Program, backs by Governor Gavin Newsom and
the state legislature, books to increase public awareness on topics
such as health and safety, water and energy conservation, climate mitigation,
(02:26):
emergency preparedness, social justice, and civic and community engagement. I
went to now introduced Mayan and Naomi and Leah a
little more fully. Mayan and Naomi both grew up in Davis, California,
and both have young children. There are active members of
the Israeli and Jewish communities and started the Miaim Dance
(02:50):
Troupe in twenty twenty four. Leah is a member of
the Davis Jewish Community and her son is a member
of the Miim Dance Troupe. Welcome all three of you.
Thank you so much for being.
Speaker 5 (02:59):
Here, Thank you for having us, Thank you so much.
Speaker 4 (03:04):
You're welcome. So I wanted to first I always like
to hear the origin of my project, someone's group people
have created. So can we start by you letting us
know why you started them Iim Dance Troupe.
Speaker 5 (03:18):
Sure, and we could just go.
Speaker 6 (03:21):
Yeah, So this is my un and I will say
I started this troop in kind of the twofold reasons.
So the first reason was part of my personal transformation
as an Israelian American. I've lived on various cutscenes. So
(03:41):
after the massacre of October seventh.
Speaker 7 (03:44):
I was six months postpartum and I really felt a
lot of fear.
Speaker 5 (03:48):
There was a lot of like very clear messaging.
Speaker 7 (03:52):
There was the day of Global Ghad just a few
days after, and we were actually recommended to close our synagogue.
And then I started doing some advocacy work and I
really felt like, you know, I could be a voice
in our community.
Speaker 6 (04:07):
And then I started going on a personal journey connecting
to my roots, learning more about Judaism and Jewish culture.
Speaker 7 (04:16):
So this was really part of a project of.
Speaker 6 (04:19):
My own relearning and connecting to Israeli folk dancing as
a really quintessential part of modern Jewish culture, as well
as recognizing a need in our community. I was seeing
that there really wasn't very many people that knew deeply
about Jewish culture, neither about anti Semitism, nor about our
(04:44):
culture to people.
Speaker 7 (04:46):
So I don't know if anyone wants to add on
to that.
Speaker 5 (04:50):
Yeah, I mean I can.
Speaker 3 (04:51):
I can say that I grew up with a really
strong background and Israeli folk dance.
Speaker 7 (04:57):
My parents were both folk.
Speaker 3 (04:58):
Dancers, and some of my earliest memories are of like
being a toddler on the side of the folk kancing
circle late at night as my parents would.
Speaker 4 (05:08):
Just again and dance.
Speaker 3 (05:10):
Yeah, And of course, as a child and teen I
rebelled against that and I thought it was lame, But
it's part of who I am, and so I think
part of like part of my desire to join the
dance troupe and my kind of attraction to it is
(05:31):
to create spaces in the Jewish community and the Israeli
American community where we can celebrate our like f cultural
heritage together in a positive and empowering way.
Speaker 5 (05:48):
So much my story is a little bit different because
I didn't really grow up in a lot of Jewish culture,
and it's something that I've worked had to work really
hard to incorporate into my family's life because my aunt
(06:09):
sort of talked about this like her own journey and
her own spiritual journey, and I have very much felt
to be on my own journey as well, and when
you're a parent, that involves kind of bringing your family
along as well. So wanting to find these pieces that
(06:32):
I can share with my children that they will find
joyous and celebratory and connect in ways that sort of
go beyond book learning. I guess right to be fully
in the culture and dance and music is just it's
(06:53):
so universal it sucks everybody in. Can I add a
lot more? Sorry this is now.
Speaker 3 (07:01):
I just wanted to add one more thing, which is
that I think for myself, like following the trauma of
October seventh that myann already mentioned, I was holding so
much panic in my body, like so much sight of
panic and this kind of kind of working through using
(07:24):
our body and using movement in kind of a somatic.
Speaker 5 (07:28):
Way to move through these feelings.
Speaker 7 (07:32):
What has been huge for.
Speaker 4 (07:34):
Me that totally makes sense, heeling through movement in this
form of art. Well, thank you, Thank you for sharing
you know, deeply personal, very painful experiences in the part
of your personal transformation. And just for people listening and
(07:56):
for the ease of knowing who's talking. Can we just
continue going kind of in this order with may aunt
and then knowing me and then uh leah and the
answering questions okay, try yeah or whatever just in case yeah, yeah,
(08:17):
we'll just let it flow. We'll just let it flow.
But that way I won't have to say okay you next, Right.
So what are besides like the you know, the response
to trauma which is completely understandable and yeah, acted so
many people so many ways, and the healing aspect and
(08:39):
connecting to like ruts and ancestry and sharing with your family.
What what else are what are the goals of the
dance troupe any additional goals you might have.
Speaker 7 (08:50):
So I think this idea of connecting to the younger generations.
Speaker 6 (08:54):
At our first performance there were actually three generations, which
was really incorrect edible, and it was really a big
part of who we are as Jews is about teaching
the next generation. And there's a very interesting conversation that
we had after the first performance about resisting assimilation and
(09:19):
kind of how do we.
Speaker 7 (09:21):
Engage in society as a people as Americans and not
lose who we are.
Speaker 6 (09:27):
So there were people from many different cultures, both in
the audience and in the performance.
Speaker 7 (09:33):
And this is something that Jews have done really well
over time, and then we're finding in recent generations, probably
even I would say just the last few decades, that
there are.
Speaker 6 (09:46):
A lot of people in the Jewish community who don't
really know our history and we don't really know what
we've gone through.
Speaker 7 (09:53):
But also the beautiful parts the wisdom that we have.
Speaker 6 (09:58):
And one thing that I really love about Jewish folksance
in particular is that it incorporates.
Speaker 7 (10:05):
Cultures from all over the world.
Speaker 6 (10:07):
So it's a really essential part both of our celebrations
at weddings, it's really an important part at our mitzvah's,
even at Jewish summer camps. But it's also this beautiful
thing where people from all over the world came together
and could learn these dances from all different cultures. Anyone
(10:28):
else want to add, sure, Yeah, go ahead.
Speaker 4 (10:32):
Sorry, I'm sorry, but that's just like you know, that
in and of itself is just interesting to think about.
Like well, you know, of course there's a whole wide
spect there's different sects of Judaism and a homeworde spectrum
of who's Jewish and what is Jewish and then the
cultural influence depending on where right where you grew up,
where you live. So I appreciate you know, just that
(10:56):
including cultures from all over the world. Thanks for letting
me interject that.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
Yeah, and I mean.
Speaker 5 (11:03):
Mayan put it beautifully, this is this is Naomi.
Speaker 3 (11:07):
You know, I think part of it for me, part
of the goals for me a is, yeah, educating our
community about who we are and where we come from,
and also educating.
Speaker 5 (11:20):
Kind of the larger community we live in.
Speaker 3 (11:23):
You know, Jews are only two percent of the population
of the glow of the US and point two percent
of the global population, and so and we're not a
proselytizing religion.
Speaker 5 (11:37):
So I think historically, like people.
Speaker 7 (11:41):
Don't know a lot about Jews, and you know, we're
not just a religion.
Speaker 3 (11:47):
We're an ethno religious tribe and like I think a
lot of Americans.
Speaker 7 (11:53):
Relate to Jews just as a religious This is just as.
Speaker 5 (11:58):
A religion, but we're really not that. We're best understood
as the tribal peoples.
Speaker 3 (12:02):
And you know, after the exile from Jerusalem many thousands
of years ago, Jews were really dispersed all over the
world through different immigration patterns.
Speaker 5 (12:16):
And part of the really cool.
Speaker 3 (12:18):
Thing about Israeli folk dances it combines Russian folk dances
that Jews did in well in the former you know,
Soviet Union and even prior to that, and you know
Yemenite traditional Yemenite dances that Jews from Yemen brought with them,
and just it's a really interesting way to learn about
(12:42):
the history of Jews in the world through.
Speaker 5 (12:45):
An art form.
Speaker 7 (12:46):
This is Mayan again.
Speaker 6 (12:48):
I just wanted to add also that one thing that
I was realizing over this year is.
Speaker 8 (12:53):
That if we don't tell our story, other people will,
And I think this is probably true a lot of
other minorities, right like we.
Speaker 6 (13:04):
We need to be the ones to tell our story.
So this was another opportunity for that. So yeah, again,
thank you for including us on the podcast. And I'm
sure I'm not the only guest to say that we
really appreciate being seen. So I think that's a really
that's a really important part of what this is about
as well.
Speaker 4 (13:26):
I appreciate you being here, Yes, be seen.
Speaker 7 (13:31):
This is this is now.
Speaker 5 (13:35):
I really resonate, you know, with both what Mayan and
Naomi said about sort of the cultural piece and the
you know, resisting assimilation and resisting other other people's definitions
(13:55):
or descriptions of you and thinking about getting my it's involved.
I think in Naomi was talking about this in terms
of the sort of tribal identity, is that we Jews
consider ourselves part of a peoplehood. Our identity is deeply
(14:16):
tied within that sense of community, a small community, a
small global community, and we are even smaller when you're
talking about Davis, right, Davis has a really small Jewish community,
And so instilling that sense of peoplehood you have to
really do it in a concerted way.
Speaker 7 (14:39):
It's not going to happen naturally.
Speaker 5 (14:42):
Your kids are not going to just end up with
a Jewish identity by growing up in Davis. It's something
that you need to immerse them in. And I want
my kids to understand and connect with jew Wish people
in the peoplehood and Jewish identity beyond sort of walking
(15:06):
into a synagogue, which is an important part but a
small part of who we are.
Speaker 4 (15:16):
Yeah, that makes sense all aspects and just emphasizing it's
not just a religion, it's a tribe, it's ethnicity, culture.
So what else does it mean to be a part
of this project? For Leah, I appreciate you mentioning children.
(15:36):
What does it mean for your families to be a
part of this project?
Speaker 8 (15:41):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (15:41):
For me, and this is sorry, this is I mean
we're going to go out of order because everyone's looking
at me.
Speaker 4 (15:46):
Oh, no problem. I just wanted people to I just
want to clear I just wanted people to clarify who's speaking.
It doesn't matter the order, so people know.
Speaker 3 (15:59):
Is the me And for me, it's like really coming
full circle to my family's kind of history.
Speaker 7 (16:06):
I mean, my.
Speaker 3 (16:07):
Parents met at an Israeli folk dancing night in New
York in the seventies, and Israeli folk dance has been
has like shaped their lives. It's probably the reason I'm
here right, And so's it's like an art form that
(16:28):
I you know, it's I mean my like I said,
I have memories of it from an early child, when
I was a teenager and I was going to summer camp.
Speaker 5 (16:39):
We would like my.
Speaker 3 (16:40):
Favorite memories are folk dancing Friday night and Saturday night,
the whole camp, and.
Speaker 5 (16:48):
It's just like really coming full circle.
Speaker 3 (16:51):
And honoring you know, my mom and my dad and
even their parents who were folk dancing in the in
the early early days of Israel.
Speaker 4 (17:01):
So wow, that's nice. That's nice, nice image memories.
Speaker 7 (17:07):
I guess there is one more aspect too.
Speaker 6 (17:09):
This is my un speaking, this idea of kind of
grief and joy being intertwined in Judaism, that you know,
despite the grief, despite.
Speaker 5 (17:23):
The pain, we go forward enjoy. So you know, at
a wedding, we'll.
Speaker 7 (17:29):
Break the glass, right then the man will step on.
Speaker 5 (17:33):
A glass and break it.
Speaker 6 (17:35):
We we we are remembering that we are not a whole,
we are not returned to our temple. So there are
so many different aspects.
Speaker 7 (17:45):
Of the other way around too.
Speaker 6 (17:47):
Right where it's been this very devastating, devastating year. You know,
anyone connected with Israeli family, which both of us have,
know someone who was a lot in October seventh or
the month since, and you know, I know that that's
an experience that a lot of us have had who
(18:08):
have family in the Middle East, and it was something
that I really felt like, we have this opportunity.
Speaker 7 (18:18):
To dance again.
Speaker 5 (18:19):
Right.
Speaker 6 (18:20):
We talked about the Nova Festival, which was this place
where just so many young people were slaughtered, and both
Naomi and I have been to parties in Israel in
the desert.
Speaker 7 (18:30):
You know, it felt very close to home.
Speaker 6 (18:32):
And as we came upon the year anniversary of the
October seventh massacre, there was this question of do we celebrate? Right,
it was on Suhat Torah where we danced with the
Torah and can you know, can we be joyous?
Speaker 7 (18:50):
Can we be joyous at such a dark time? And
I think it's a really important.
Speaker 6 (18:54):
Part of who we are as Jews that we have
to continue going forward. And you know, maybe maybe it's
not even just a Jewish maybe it's really as human beings.
Speaker 7 (19:05):
We have to be able to set aside our grief
and come back together.
Speaker 6 (19:11):
So there's there's also an aspect of Israeli folk dance
that's that's a lot of it is a circle.
Speaker 7 (19:19):
So there was something also very healing. I think Naomi
touched on that as well.
Speaker 6 (19:23):
There was something very healing about coming together and kind
of moving as one with this in breath and out
breath kind of gesture that was really amazing.
Speaker 4 (19:33):
So it is amazing, And that's yeah, that's really really
well put. And like you said, I appreciate how you,
you know, touch on the universal aspect, how we can
both definitely within you know, from your own culture and
your own people and try but also recognizing the need
(19:54):
to be able to keep moving forward. And I'm just
trying to be as articulate as you were. What did
you say, like, can we celebrate again? Do we celebrate
again at dark times that as human beings we have
to set aside our grief and come together again?
Speaker 7 (20:12):
Right?
Speaker 8 (20:12):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (20:13):
Can I piggyback on that? Myan this is name? I mean,
I was just like.
Speaker 3 (20:17):
Thinking even broader about how important it is for marginalized
communities too, like speak for themselves and show their colors
and not maths, and kind of like my own experience
and and how that relates to dance to Israeli folk dance,
like I think that as a as.
Speaker 7 (20:39):
A child, like like any marginalized community.
Speaker 3 (20:44):
I definitely experienced my fair share of anti Semitism, whether
it was just friends, even friends in my social circle
making like low key anti Semitic comments about like trope
classical anti Semitic tropes about me being too stingy, or
(21:05):
making Holocaust jokes even and then you know, in nineteen
ninety nine, I'm not sure if you're aware of this,
but in nineteen ninety ninety nine, several synagogues in Sacramento
or firebomb, including the one that my family went to.
So like, I experienced, you know, everything from just day
to day, like anti anti Semitic speech from people.
Speaker 7 (21:29):
Who I was supposed to from people who were supposed.
Speaker 3 (21:32):
To have my back, to actual violence, you know, pretty
pretty serious violence. And so I think a lot of
like as I grew as a teenager, I think I
really leaned into masking the fact.
Speaker 5 (21:45):
That I was Jewish, because then I just wouldn't have
to deal with it, you know. And as an adult, and.
Speaker 3 (21:52):
As like having young kids and looking at them and
struggling with what Leah touched on, like how am I
going to pass down an identity there and a Jewish
identity to them that was both meaningful and and joyous
and and this dancing endeavor and this art form is
(22:14):
to me a way to show pride, to show pride
in who we are, and hopefully to share something beautiful
with others about who we are.
Speaker 5 (22:26):
This is this is Leah. I everything that Naomi just said,
I like snaps. I totally agree with.
Speaker 7 (22:36):
It's you know, I I moved around a lot as
a kid.
Speaker 5 (22:39):
I lived in three different countries, on three different continents,
and it didn't matter where I lived, you know, I
always faced anti Semitism. My synagogue was also firebombed. I
went to preschool there. I was I was younger, but
(23:02):
that's that's like a seared memory for me. And you know,
the comments from teachers, the comments from peers, holocaust jokes,
it's you hear. You hear a lot. And you know,
(23:24):
my my kids have have faced it, you know when
we when we moved here, I actually didn't assume that
we would face it to the same degree, you know,
and you get the the micro aggressions or the insensitive
sort of comments, and you sort of expect that that's
(23:46):
sort of a level of you know, maybe ignorance or
you know, for from kids, curiosity or just trying to
figure out what's what you you you expect that at
at some level, but I didn't expect the level of
anti Semitism that my kids have based in this year. Davis,
(24:11):
I think has such an ethos of inclusivity, one that
we really gravitated to and moving here, right, That's part
of the attraction of living in Davis is the community here,
the bike paths and this really wonderful community. And shortly
(24:33):
after October seventh and my son used to used to
always wear a star of David and a kid looked
at his started David. This was maybe November twenty twenty three,
so again shortly after October seventh, and a kid looked
at him and he said, are you Jewish and then
threatened to kill him. When my son said yes, and
(24:55):
I'm so sorry, thank you.
Speaker 3 (24:58):
It you know it.
Speaker 5 (25:00):
It shook my son and he wore star a little
bit after that and then hasn't since. And I want
him to know that there is joy in being Jewish, right, Like, yes,
(25:20):
being Jewish does come. Unfortunately in this society with anti Semitism,
it does, and so we have to prepare kids for that.
Part of raising Jewish kids is preparing them for anti Semitism.
And I know that that's not a uniquely Jewish thing, right,
that's a uniquely minor identity experience of having those conversations
(25:44):
with your kid. But it can't it can't just be
that otherwise, you know, That's what it was talking about
that you you push back, you reject, you want to hide,
Like what is there to come to in this identity
if it is just scary and hateful? Like why step
(26:05):
into that space? And you know, when I told my
son about this dance troupe, I actually wasn't sure what
his response was going to be, but I was so
relieved that he was so excited and all the way through,
(26:26):
like he just loved being a part of the dance troupe.
It was something that absolutely brought him joy. He knows
that like this is a unique cultural piece of him,
This is part of his identity, and it is all
mixed up in those pieces that are difficult, but it's
(26:47):
it's so important that we instill those those pieces of
joy and pride as well. And I'm just really thankful
to Mayan and Naomi for providing this experience for him.
Speaker 4 (27:01):
Well, that's so important. I'm so glad that he has
that's the place, this community, this art form that's healing
and embraces him and reflects the beauty of himself and
his family and his people. Yeah, that's such an important
(27:22):
I'm sorry. I'm just appreciating how important that is.
Speaker 5 (27:26):
Yeah, and you know, they're just back to my son.
When when it got around, right, kids here about these things.
When it got around that a kid with the Star
of David was threatened, everybody knew it was my son because,
(27:49):
as another little Jewish girl said, he's the only one
brave enough to wear it.
Speaker 4 (27:57):
Yeah, this is a lot. Yeah, yeah, it's it's Yeah,
I've seen it, seen it and heard it and not
not just in schools. But yeah, I'm so sorry.
Speaker 8 (28:07):
I hurts. Yeah.
Speaker 5 (28:10):
Yeah, you want to you want to protect your kids,
but there's so much that you can do.
Speaker 6 (28:18):
Well, I'll just talk about that a little bit too,
because that was a really big part of my own transformation.
Speaker 7 (28:25):
Was actually well just going back to to my upbringing.
So I grew up in Davis, and I don't really
remember facing a lot of anti Semitism in the traditional sense.
Speaker 6 (28:39):
I I overheard a Holocaust choke some kids were saying
outside in elementary school, but I don't really remember.
Speaker 7 (28:47):
A lot of overt incidents other than.
Speaker 6 (28:49):
Hearing about the fire bombings and Sacramento. You know, so
I was always nervous in the synagogue, But what I
did experience was a lot of anti Zionism. So it
was a really interesting process that I feel like I've
been learning about a lot over the past year. Where
(29:13):
it got to the point where people would ask me
where my name is from, and I would say that
it's Hebrew because I didn't want to.
Speaker 7 (29:18):
Say it's Israeli and it's not a biblical name.
Speaker 6 (29:21):
It is specifically a new kind of nature hippie Israeli
name that I just it was such a hot button
issue for so many people growing up in Davis and
going to university in Santa Cruz, I just learned sometimes
it was easier to avoid it, and that was something,
(29:44):
you know, I've also there was one incident where I
was applying to a housing co op and it was
going wonderfully, and then they found out that I had
done some volunteer work in Israel and very quickly showed
me off the door. So there was Yeah, there were
a few incidents where it was very clearly not about my.
Speaker 7 (30:06):
Politics, because my politics, so it's been very left you know,
very progressive.
Speaker 6 (30:11):
It really was specifically about my identity as in Israeli,
as an Israeli American, and I found that over the
last year, especially people who are kind of politically progressive
have faced such an upheaval of loss of friendships.
Speaker 7 (30:33):
Loss of community. You know, people who have disabilities feeling unsafe.
Speaker 6 (30:41):
There are people who are in the queer you know,
LGBTQ communities really facing.
Speaker 7 (30:47):
A lot of isolation.
Speaker 6 (30:51):
On the back of all these anti Semitic events that
we were hearing about. There was also the personal loss
and experience of Isola. So I've actually become friends with
both Naomi and Lia over the last you know whatever,
it is a year and a half, almost since October seventh,
(31:12):
where I really recognized that I can be a part of.
Speaker 7 (31:18):
These spaces that make me feel safe and make me
feel welcome. I guess the other thing that I wanted
to add was this fear that I mentioned.
Speaker 6 (31:29):
Earlier, where I just felt so much hate, I felt
so much aggression.
Speaker 7 (31:34):
There was actually a number of messages that.
Speaker 6 (31:40):
We should be fearful, that we should you know, there
was a professor at UC Davis or an assistant professor
who said that we have addresses and children, and we
should fear our bosses, but we should fear them more.
Speaker 5 (31:54):
That was about Zionus.
Speaker 7 (31:56):
So it was really like a lot of messaging around violence.
Speaker 5 (32:01):
And hate, and I was really shocked when.
Speaker 7 (32:05):
Those messages weren't countered in our communities.
Speaker 6 (32:09):
And that was something that I just really feel like,
it's so important that we stand up against bigotry and hate,
no matter who it's directed at.
Speaker 7 (32:21):
So, yeah, I just let me say I'm sorry. I
was trailing into too many different thoughts. I want to say,
I'm matteric oh no, no, oh, yeah.
Speaker 6 (32:29):
So the last thing that I wanted to say was
that it was very important to me, Like we were
talking about how it's important that we define ourselves and
not let other people define us. So one thing that
I really had no idea how prevalent.
Speaker 7 (32:50):
Misinformation about the Jewish people are.
Speaker 6 (32:53):
So one thing that I've really been recognizing is that
people think that there are multiple definitions for Zionus, but
actually only the Jewish people get to define Zionism, right,
Only Zionists get to define.
Speaker 5 (33:06):
Who they are, right.
Speaker 7 (33:08):
So this is something that I feel like people are creating.
Speaker 6 (33:13):
False definitions and then categorizing Zionists as something to be hated.
Speaker 7 (33:20):
So I just wanted to define Zionism for a second,
if that's all right.
Speaker 6 (33:25):
It's the belief of wanting Israel to exist as a
Jewish state and supporting the existence of the Jewish state.
Speaker 7 (33:31):
It has nothing to do with the policies. It has
nothing to.
Speaker 6 (33:34):
Do with current events, you know, I think, especially for
those of us who are progressive, there's a.
Speaker 7 (33:40):
Huge range in what we think about what's happening.
Speaker 6 (33:43):
It just simply means that we think that we have
a right to and not even just Jews, right, it's
a right to self determination in our ancestral lands.
Speaker 7 (33:55):
And it's not a zero sumbol right.
Speaker 3 (33:57):
So it's not it's not a belief that they're shouldn't
be a Palestinian state. It doesn't apply as to what
the borders of Israel should be or should look like.
It's just a belief that Jews have the right to
self determination in their ancestral homelands, just like everyone else.
And it doesn't it doesn't, you know, institute someone's indigenoity
(34:18):
as being more important than in other people's at all.
Speaker 7 (34:21):
I mean, so many people are indigenous.
Speaker 3 (34:23):
To that piece of land, right, So when other people
start putting alternative definitions, it's really hard.
Speaker 7 (34:32):
Like I had a parent in my daycare say ask me,
are you a Zionist? And I was like, I'm not
sure what it is that you've heard, right, So that
was something that I've really just been kind of slapped
in the face this year with this idea.
Speaker 6 (34:46):
Of like everyone thinks that they get to define, you know,
and really we need to ask people who identify.
Speaker 7 (34:54):
I don't know if you have a better kind of
anti bias way of explaining that, but I feel like,
you know, we really need to let people find themselves
and speak for themselves. Anyway, Yeah, it's been it's been this, Naomi.
Speaker 5 (35:07):
Again, it's been like.
Speaker 3 (35:08):
Super perturbing for me to see in all of these
like amazing creative spaces that I have been a part of,
like places in the university where signs have gone up
that say no homophobes, no racist, no Zionists, and it's
equating Zionism with those terms. And it's just so disheartening
(35:32):
to see other people try to kind of co opt
how we define our own belief system as Jews and
then weaponize it against us.
Speaker 7 (35:42):
And I think part of it is just this lack
of education too, where people.
Speaker 3 (35:46):
Don't know a lot about Jews, Like a lot of
people can't even point to Israel on a map, and
yet it's this hot button issue, and so it's so
important I think for all of us to just like
make a beat, make a paw u feasible, remember how
to engage. We're trying to have a society.
Speaker 6 (36:09):
But I just wanted to say again how much I
appreciate this podcast because there's really so few spaces to
engage with people that we don't necessarily agree with, and
I feel like so many things that we agree about right,
there's so so many shared values and really having an opportunity.
Speaker 7 (36:28):
To listen to someone that you might not listen to otherwise,
or to speak in a space that you know.
Speaker 5 (36:38):
Even even at the art Fest.
Speaker 7 (36:40):
When we were performing, one of the teenagers said, I'm
really scared. I'm really scared, Like there's really jodancing, is
there going to this? Is someone going to come? It
was not political, it was just just the term. And
so I think it's really it's really appreciated to have
these spaces where.
Speaker 6 (37:01):
We can just kind of just talk together again and
answer questions and you know, I think, you know, cancel
culture is another issue where people are so scared to
ask the wrong question, they're so scared to use them
that they just end up not talking. And I think
it's really important that we have opportunities like this where
we can talk again.
Speaker 4 (37:23):
Yes we're Yeah, our brain freeze up so many times
and conversations don't happen, and that's that's why. That's why
I think, and I know conversations are so so so important.
I know that teaching history in the United States has
been very lacking and very narrow, and I don't thank
God that it's getting better over time in some schools
(37:48):
in some places, but we've always had a problem with ignorance,
and in course misinformation is like a thousand times of
course more and ongoing now. But I just like, I
just think every conversation is it's so important too. I
every conversation it's so helpful to like what what does
(38:11):
that word mean to you? Like, what's my definition, what's
your definition, what's my understanding? What's your understanding? And usually
if we're like you know, actually present and opening our hearts,
we're learning more like oh okay, that's oh okay, Well,
that's not what I was told or that's what I learned,
or that's not what I thought. And and you know,
(38:34):
and frankly, I have heard a number of definitions of
sism and ill and I just feel like, as as
I hope my listeners know, for me, it's about cultivating understanding.
And it mean it might be like in a dialogue
with someone like conversation three, I'm like, that's not I
(38:55):
don't think that. I don't agree, like that's okay, But
if you're like, one thing I remember learning from the
I used to from it's Marshall Rosenberg's Non Violent Communication.
When one thing I remember a principle I remember from
that book years ago, years ago, was what's more important
(39:17):
to you to be right or to connect? And it
doesn't mean we don't want to learn or grow or
be clear about what my experience is of whatever the
word whatever we're talking about. Of course I want to
be able to convey what I think and what I
feel and what you think and what you feel. But
I think it's building relationship and then the process of
(39:40):
understanding each other. There's moments where like I might not
think the same thing, but that's of course we're not
carbon copies of each other.
Speaker 7 (39:50):
Opportunities for you to be like, when you say that
this is what I hear, can you clarify? And if
we're not, if we're not engaging with someone who disagrees
with us, when.
Speaker 9 (40:00):
Are we ever given that opportunity, right, even just to
have that echo of just like, oh, I didn't realize
that's what you that's what you were hearing.
Speaker 7 (40:11):
Right, let me let me be more specific, let me
give you an example, right.
Speaker 6 (40:16):
And that's something that I think is really important too,
is is being aware of the messaging. Like, we have
a lot of issues on social media where we're getting
these echo chambers, especially with AI, right, we're kind of
getting these echo chambers of what we think the other
thinks about us and what we think.
Speaker 5 (40:35):
The other things we think.
Speaker 6 (40:38):
Right, So I think it's really important to have those
actual in person conversations just be like, wait a second.
Speaker 7 (40:45):
Let's let's clarify that, let's let's break that down a
little bit and not loving lumping together the other.
Speaker 4 (40:54):
He wants and that that's making me. Remember I think
it was my first phone conversation and with you Lea,
when we were talking about how our like society at
large has it, you know, pits people together, right, the
divide and conquer and don't get to know, don't get
(41:15):
to know the other person, because we want to have
If you work collectively and together, you might create peace
instead of giving a small select authoritarian government control. And
we have authoritarian government several places. But you and I
were talking about we were through the culture air people
(41:36):
and Jewish people are supposed to not get to know
each other, and how like that's so unfair and so
harmful and so purtful and destructive for everybody, and how
do how do we so, how do we step out
of that norm? Well, we get to know each other
when we had I'm sorry, I just want to add
(41:58):
one more thing. And we also acknowledge that for the
most part, I don't know how much. For the most part,
I grew up in the country. For the most part,
I grew up and lived and was able to have
the privilege of not being in a war zone and
being safe. And I remember you and I said, you know,
a privilege of being safe and not not shot at,
(42:21):
not bomb not being in a context of violence constantly.
It's not only a we have the privilege of reaching
out and trying to connect and develop relationships and understand
where each other's coming from. Do you want to add
to that, Leah, Do you remember that conversation?
Speaker 5 (42:39):
Yeah, you know, I just our society is so incredibly
polarized in this you know, where we exactly what you
were saying of just pushing us away from each other.
And and you know, I think that that erodes at
our democracy. If we're not able to sit and work
(43:02):
through hard things together, then it will be you know,
fascist or authoritarian takeover. Right Like if you if you
cannot work together as a society, then it will just
be one side strong arming the other side. You know,
we are democracy depends on being able to to connect
(43:25):
and work together. And you know, I think that anti
Semitism in particular breeds in in this space of societal conflict,
in polarization, because a lot of anti Semitism can just
(43:45):
be boiled down to conspiracy theory, the you know, the
the all powerful Jew that is the source of all
of your problems, Right, that's sort of the myth of
anti Semitism, which is why it's so appealing on both
ends of the are all ends of a of the
political spectrum. And you know, when when we see this
(44:09):
rise in polarization, we see this rise and and anti semitism,
which I know you were you were not going in
that direction, so a different direction, but no, I think
you know what what you were saying is that in
all sorts of of fashions and places in society, we're
(44:30):
not connecting. I mean, socioeconomically, we're incredibly segregated, and so
just so many space.
Speaker 4 (44:39):
I'm sorry, I'm cutting off because we have only one minute.
It just like flew by, I'm sorry. And also, yeah,
that we learned different histories, like we also talked about
there are different histories about the Middle East, and so let's.
Speaker 5 (44:51):
Talk about them, right, So I'm sorry.
Speaker 4 (44:54):
You guys have, like, you know, just a few seconds
to say your closing thought. Do you want to start
with Maya?
Speaker 8 (45:01):
Sure?
Speaker 7 (45:02):
I just again wanted to thank you for this.
Speaker 6 (45:04):
I think it was a really important conversation and I
really hope that there will be more.
Speaker 7 (45:10):
I hope.
Speaker 6 (45:10):
I don't know if your listeners are mostly local, but
I really I really hope that people start reaching out,
whether it's online or in person, and.
Speaker 7 (45:20):
Start reaching out. You know, I've actually had.
Speaker 6 (45:22):
A number of people in the Arab community, come and
talk about how similar their dances are to the dances that.
Speaker 5 (45:30):
We were doing.
Speaker 6 (45:31):
Right, Like, even among people who we feel so divided
at this particular time, we can still find where we
have commonalities.
Speaker 7 (45:42):
So yeah, like, find people that.
Speaker 6 (45:45):
Are in your community, that are in your friend's circle,
that are in your classes, find people that you can
connect to and try to figure out what you have
more in common about and what you.
Speaker 7 (45:57):
Have difference is about. You know, start atre adding curiosity
to that.
Speaker 4 (46:02):
We do you have a closing thought, just.
Speaker 10 (46:04):
Just deep gratitude for the opportunity to have open and
open heart and open mind conversations with each other and
to continue that.
Speaker 7 (46:15):
So just a big thanks to you and your your podcast.
Speaker 2 (46:20):
Thank you.
Speaker 4 (46:21):
You have a couple of words, Leah, just give you
one word.
Speaker 5 (46:24):
Thank you so much, and hopefully the conversation will continue.
Thank you, Thank you, Thank you all.
Speaker 4 (46:30):
Maybe everyone tune in next Wednesday at eight pm Eastern
Time at W four c Y dot com or talk
for TV and maybe we all have enriching conversations diversity
this week. Thank you.
Speaker 2 (46:43):
Let's speech, Let's speak sure in lot, let's speech in lot,
Let's reach all a logic galletwich a largic gallets pitched
(47:05):
a high
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