April 8, 2024 • 49 mins
Looking for an off-the beaten track wine glamping getaway in Italy? Consider Abruzzo. Azienda Agricola Cirelli is an organically farmed winery located in the Gran Sasso Park, home to one of the highest peaks in the Appennine Mountains. Stay in one of two well-appointed cabins surrounded by vineyards, olive trees and jaw-dropping views. Founder Francesco Cirelli is a talented "new generation" Abruzzo producer making amphora-fermented wines with minimal intervention. www.agricolacirelli.com
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The Connected Table Radio Show is broadcast on W4CY Radio (www.w4cy.com) part of Talk 4 Radio (www.talk4radio.com) on the Talk 4 Media Network (www.talk4media.com).
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(00:00):
The topics and opinions expressed and thefollowing show are solely those of the hosts
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(00:21):
W FOURCY Radio. Welcome to theConnected Table Live where your hosts Melanie Young
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and David Ransom. You're insatiably curiousculinary couple. We bring you the dynamic
people who work front and center andbehind the scenes in wine, food,
spirits and hospitality around the world.We enjoy traveling, enjoy bringing their stories
to you or listeners, and wehope you'll take our suggestions and theres as
well and go out and try theirwines, visit their restaurants, visit their
(01:07):
wineries, and be adventurous because wealways believe life is about eating, drinking,
exploring, and inspiring. And speakingof inspiring, we have a guest
joining us from a region. Werecently visited a bruzso right, David,
absolutely Melanie, a place that wehad not been to before. So it
was an eye opener for us ina lot of ways. And lovely wines,
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wonderful people and of course a greatcoastline. So just a little visualization
about where is a Bruso. Itis on the Adriatic side of Italy.
And what's neat about a Bruso ison one side is bordered by the Apennine
Mountains, which are really like thespine of Italy. They travel down the
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center and they're very steep and it'svery dramatic drive actually, which we did
from the coast of a Bruzzo toRome through the Apenninis and then on the
seaside it's Adriatic which has very calmwaves. It's very placid there. It's
a popular vacation spot, very lowkey. We stated a lovely you know,
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tourist hotel, lots of fun restaurants, obviously seafood, but also this
area is known for its meat dishesas well as seafood. Because you've got
the mountains and you've got the sea. So our trip was to learn about
the wines of a Bruzzo and wehad an incredible experience, and so our
guest today is one of the winerieswe visited, and this is a i
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think, a young producer doing alot of things that we're seeing happening or
starting to happen around Italy. Heworks with Mphora. His name is Francesco
Chirelli and he and his wife Mikolaown an organic farm surrounded about twenty three
hectars more inland near the Grand SassoNational Park, which we'll talk about.
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As we said, he works inAmphora, which is his thought process.
He is Demeter certified and fairly ayoung producer and we're really excited to have
Francesco Chirelli join us on the Connectedtable. Bim Venuto grad Semi, thank
you so much for this invitation.I appreciate that well, Francisca, we're
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happy to have you on and wereally enjoyed visiting your winery as well.
It was, as Melanie said,you create your wines in amphora, which
is kind of a growing trend ina lot of places in Italy and around
the world these days to use Amphorato make some of the wines, but
you actually make all your wines inm fora so you've gone a step further,
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and we were really happy to tastethe wines too. They were just
delicious. Let's start with location.We kind of set you up, but
I'll have to say it was quitethe ride in our bus to Agricolo,
which is really more inland and ina very dramatic area. So set the
stage by describing where you are inthe region of a briot cell. Yes,
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sure, thanks for this opportunity.I always love to talk about the
region and the place where we are. So we are. I can say
that we are almost in the middleof nowhere, but only like I mean,
just thirteen thirteen kilometres from the seaand forty kilometrus from the Grand Stasso,
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which is the highest peak of theItalian Apennines. And so yeah,
we are in the hilly area,right inside a natural reserve called Reserve at
Kalankidiatri, which is under the patronageof the w WF. It was a
very dramatic place, Melanie. Wewent down a number of very small and
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potholed roads to get there. Itwas kind of fun and it was pouring
rain when we got there, butthen the sun came out and everything opened
up and we had a beautiful visitwith you. They have in that valley
that Francesco's winery and Melanie, theyalso have some bad lands, a steep
slope that you really can't grow anythingon. So it was really very dramatic.
It's really quite beautiful, like theColuncus. We're curious, Francesca,
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what brought you to this area?Did you come here as a young boy
and you were driving? Yeah,nice question. Actually it was really it
just happened. So at that time, when I was twenty three years old,
I was almost on my way toget my graduation in business administration at
the Italian University. But at thesame time I was dreaming about being involved
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at some level in agriculture, infarming, because my grandparents were both sides
coming from the land, from thesoil, and so I started dreaming and
sharing this dream with my parents.And one day it happened that we just
get lost there, I mean,driving the car trying to see beautiful places
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and looking for properties tool to tobuy. We ended up in that place.
We just stepped down the car andwe had uh this dramatic view in
front of us, the bad lengthsand the up and lines and the sea
on the on the on the westside, on the east side actually,
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and we felt in love immediately,and we were lucky enough that there was
a ticket with our whole number,thinking that that property was on sale.
And that night, I mean,I just came back home and the first
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thing I did was calling this thefamily and yeah, And after one month
the deal was done, and Ichanged totally my life and I moved back
to Bruts and I started my uhyeah, my drink. That's serendipity.
It was, wasn't it amazing?So this was two thousand and three.
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And then you said about obviously youbought the property, and you said about
planting vineyards. There was a veryold vineyard, which I wasn't able to
say it because it was it wasplanted at that time, I mean in
the in a bad place, soit was not suitable for a high quality
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project which I had, like theone I had in my mind, and
so I had to destroy it.And we've replanted from scratch. So when
I pushes the land, there wasonly this old vineyard and one actor of
olive trees and that's all. Sothere was almost nothing and vines take time.
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So you produced your first wine inI believe twenty eleven, right,
Yeah, because the first vineyard Iplanted was in two thousand and six,
I had to wait five years beforegetting good fruit and yourself taught. So
we just want to talk about that. So during this time, did you
apprentice with it? You know,obviously from a business standpoint, that's a
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long time to wait to start producingyour inventory. Did you during that time
study or apprentice with anybody or kindof give us that sense of how you
became the winemaker as well as abusiness person. Yeah. Well, actually
that was one of the craziest thingsI've done, so starting everything from scratch
without any knowledgeable about wine making.So at that time I had this good
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friend who was a winemaker and alsovery interesting small producer of wines in a
brutsom, and I remember that thefirst day of the harvest, I brought
all the grapes in the garage becauseat that time I haven't had, I
mean, a real wanery. SoI was making my first attempts with my
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first three am fours in my garagand I called him and I almost pray
him, just please explain me howto start the press. So I didn't
know even how to start the machine. So it was like I don't know
how to call it. Actually itwas something crazy, but it works,
so I'm happy. That's great.You know, you actually learn from the
ground up, as they say,Yeah, I say that I learned.
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I learned by mistaking. I don'tknow if that makes sense in English,
but we have this word in Italian. So learning about with a lot of
mistakes, thanks to thanks to alot of mistakes and failures. And now
I mean in the last years,of course we grow up. We're doing
some more more bottled, and Idecided to hire a full time winemaker with
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my right hand, and we aredoing everything together. So at a certain
point it's important to recognize your limitand build a team that can manage every
thing better than what you can dowell. You have the divide and conquer
is in business and to build yourteam. Otherwise you're doing it all yourself
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and that doesn't get you anywhere exceptin you know, circles. So a
couple of things. You are onehundred percent organic, minimal intervention. And
as we said at the beginning,you do your venification and everything in amphora.
Why is this important to you.And let's talk about your philosophy.
Yeah, my philosophy is very it'svery simple. Less is more, And
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I truly believe that I'm fora reallyhelped me to get to this point where
the less we make, the betterit is. So we try to respect
the fruit and we try to dothe less during the wine making in order
to put in the bottle a realauthentic picture of our there are and I'm
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for I mean, really it's sohelpful because it doesn't it doesn't give any
flavor, an external flavor to thewine. It respects the original flavor and
the original taste of the wine.It just helps the wine to refine.
Respecting is authenticity. We have hada lot of conversations with Vennor's about amphora,
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from the size, to the shapeto the material made. You have
different amphora at Chiarelli. How dothese elements impact the wine? And I
mean, I guess we equate itmuch like barrels. You know, different
sizes and materials impact the wine.So give us an example with the employer
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use the different kinds. So thebest example is the fact that I mean
mpora works like exactly like Barrique,So Budden cask. But I mean because
it allows the wine to breathe andto get the oxygen from the outside it,
but it doesn't give any added flowerSo this is the magic about Amphora.
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And also it really helps the wineto moderate the tangents because of the
oxygen and because of its form anddimension so and size. So it's it's
a it's a great container. Imean, I'm so happy about that.
That's why I'm only working with themfor since the real beginning, since in
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the twenty eleven and never changing andI don't think I will never change them.
Two other questions, and what Davidasked, you know you get your
you specifically sourced from Amphora in Tuscany, and it's I think this producer is
fairly producing producer. So why isthat? And is it a more expensive
process to do this? M MYeah, I'm sourcing, Yeah, yeah,
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I'm sourcing. I'm sourcing them forus mostly nineteen nine percent from Artenova
in Tuscany because at that time ineleven, when I start studying and analyzing
the market of the forest, itwas the first result I got on Google
lesson and they were, i meanthe only one doing I mean in a
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professional way. So I called themand I visited them and I was just
impressed by the quality of their oftheir work. And also in the last
years I found another producer from adifferent area, but I only had one
one and from from this guy fromAlla, which is in up north north
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in Italy, in Trentino. Andthe cost of production, yes, it's
tremendously more expensive because I mean youreally need to you can only work by
hand, and everything has been byhand, and you have to be sot
t dear when it comes to cleaning, and so you have to spend a
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lot of water and a lot ofsteam. So yeah, the final I
mean at the end of the year, the cost is pretty bigger. You
know, I'm curious, Francesco.One of the one of the things that
people pay attention to a lot inwine making is temperature control, which is
why the sameless steel tanks are jacketedwith the cooling unit. But you can't
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do that with them for us.So how do you control the temperature in
the winery when you're making wine tomake sure that you're getting the best one
that you can out of the mfora Yeah, so there are solution also
if you work with them for us. So there are some ways more let's
say, artisanal way to control thetemperatures. But actually we excavated and we
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we build this kind of amphor aya, so the place where all them for
us are and we covered them withsand and and stones to keep the temperature
as stable as possible. And wedo have very good results, especially with
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the with the whites and the rosette, and sometimes we can suffer a little
bit with the with the red,with the multipl I mean, so far,
so good. We saw the sandand stone, it was like they
were buried, and that's how theydo. And also in Georgia we've seen
the and for a buried in theground. I've seen them a couple other
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wineries in Italy as well. Yeah, and and and it's funny on your
So we want to just let ourlisteners know that zev Rovine Rovine Selections as
your importer and on their site theytalk you talk about how you have to
wear a bathing suit to get insideand for the clean it because of course
it's all about you know, keepingeverything clean. I'm trying to visualize that.
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Yeah, that's the funniest. Whatare some of the challenges of you
know, it's a great philosophy,but with every pro there's also a challenge.
What are your challenges starting with yourlocation to your approach. Well,
yeah, I mean we face manychallenges over here. That's that's our that's
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our job. So we always saythat we are under the sky underfore I
mean, we cannot forecast, andso whatever it comes from the sky,
we need to try to react inthe best way possible so that the first
challenge that we are fitting in thoseyears is for sure that the climate.
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Because for example, I mean thisyear we had the most rainy year ever
if we compare with the last fortyforty five years in a brute saw and
you experience that that because when youcame, I mean the weather was not
that nice at all, So it'stoo much train and of course problems in
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the the min yards, uh andand and and in the country. Last
year, in the last three orfour years, we faced i mean draft
and very hot temperature. So everyyear is different. There is not uh
consistent weather and so yeah, wehave to adapt to that. I think
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that this is the most difficult thingto manage because I mean, if we
have problems in the in the cellarour I mean logistics warehouse whatever. I
mean, we can always fix it. But with the weather there is nothing
to do unfortunately, so it's prettypretty pretty difficult. We'll see what's gonna
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happen in the last in the nextyear. Oh, everybody is experiencing that.
It seems like RT David everywhere,Yeah, everywhere. Yeah. So
Bruto is known for very specific grapes. First of all, are all your
grapes a stake grown or do yousource from elsewhere? Francesca. And when
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it comes to the wines that weproduce in anforum, we hardly make them
out of our property buyings. Butthen we also have a kind of a
second line, which I mean it'stotally outsourced from organic certified producers. We're
working with them since like ten yearsnow, and we produce more entry level
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daily kind of a daily drinking stylewine Stainley steel tanks, fermented and refined,
but still I mean a tedt wardriven authenticity and simplicity, which is
from our side, I mean anothervalue. So when we were there we
did the tasting. It's probably whatLacarina Biological is and how it relates to
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La Biological. Yeah, thank youfor the for this, I mean La
Colina biologica is like it's a negos. So a negos is I mean a
way to produce wine outsourcing the grapes. So it's a brand that we established
to delivered to the one to themarkets more entry level wines, but still
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with a with authentic t and asense of a great sense of place.
So that's that's La colinabiological. Whereasthe four wines are under the brand Francisco
because as I was saying before,and they're made out of our They're exclusively
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made out of our property, minesand property grapes. Thank you for that
clarification. And and just for ourlisteners, if you're shopping for these,
you can't miss the label because it'slike a thumbprint of color in an amphora,
like a big splot, you know, drop a wine splash an amphor
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of white, red and and exactly, and and I think it's a very
simple, but it actually the thelabel kind of reflects the simplicity. And
it's a minimal intervention label. Thankyou. So as I told you before,
I mean we are minimal, andwe we are I mean we really
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believe the less is more so theless we put in the label and the
battery. It is also for theconsumer. Well, let's talk about some
of the native grapes that you workwith in your amphora, starting with uh.
You know there's two in particular thatbrutso is most well known for.
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We'll start with the white trebiano thebrutso. Now, as we all know,
there's many tribuanos. It's a prolificrape, but it has its own
unique style in a brutso, andit's a signature. Yes, indeed,
I think, I mean, ofcourse, I mean I'm totally involved in
that, but I really find thetribuana to be one of the most interesting
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ray because it has been under valuedfor us so many years. And even
though I mean it has I meanall the quality uh and all the characteristics
tool to shine for drinkability but alsofor elegance and for for aging. So
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we have iconic one where is ina brutso, showing that tribuano can be
a real and I can't again aniconic wine all over the world, and
we are so proud of that.But it's like I mean everything, I
mean, it always it always depends, I mean, how you work with
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that grape. So you can makestupid wine with a grape, with that
grape, but it can even makeI mean, if you really believe and
if you have strong identity and clearideas, you can really make great wine.
You know, I always wonder Davidand Francesco why Trepiano is malaligin,
because we've it's prolific. It's everywhere. It's like the vine, the krops
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and crawls everywhere, but so different, and some regions respect it more than
others, don't you think, Francesca, Yes, totally, totally. Then
it really depends from the tradition ofthis place. You know, Italy has,
like I mean nineteen or twenty Idon't even remember, different regions,
and every region shows its own traditionalhistory. This tradition and history reflects also
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the idea that they have for thatspecific rape. So in a brutto we
change it. I mean the commonsense about the Tribuano and I mean I
say we, but actually again,I mean if many producers did, I
mean a great job before I meanmy before, my my wines, my
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my starting in this world. Soit really it really depends. I mean,
what do you want to what doyou wanna do? Some regions.
I mean they they are still focusedon tribiano as a through it suitable for
bulk wines only or for blending otherother wines in a bruto. In the
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last twenty years we wanted to it'sa kind of a renaissance. It's a
new wave. And you you saythat at the beginning. There is a
new generation of wind makers, especiallysmall one or second generation winer is that
are really changing the uh the wayand are really changing I mean the the
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wine itself and and the and thenthe tribuano. So they are working differently
in the in the vineyards and workingdifferently in the during the wine making in
order to produce super authentic There aredriven wines like them, didn't you I
did? Yeah, I like thema lot. Francisco another one of the
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grapes that you make wine with isactually kind of a favorite of mind from
the region Pecorino. Another white Let'stalk about the pegna you make, Yeah,
Pecrino. I mean it's uh,let's say that it has been the
one of Yeah, I would say, the last uh, this caldary in
a brute. So it's like againtwenty years that when makers started to replant
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it and and experimenting with that.With this grape, it's more aromatic than
Tribiano. It delivers more alcohol.It's pretty difficult to harvest this grape and
the right moment. And I wouldsay that. I mean, in my
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opinion, I don't think it hasmore complex than Tribiano, because I mean,
I'm a truly lover and a true, true fan of Tripiano. So
if I had to choose between thetwo, my heart would choose definitely Tribiano.
I think as Pecorino as a moreI would say more. How can
(25:56):
I say that? More? Notstandardized, but I mean I think that
it please wider range of consumer.Let's put this way. Tribiano is a
little bit more niche, I wouldsay Pecorino. No, the Tribriano is
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more niche in the Pecorino. Nowthat's interesting. Yeah, that's my that's
my personal opinion. I mean,I'm sure, I mean, there are
thirty wind makers from a bruts soready to what I'm saying, because I
mean, that's the magic of wine. I mean, it's so personal,
it's so subjective. So yeah,I believe that I believe that the Tribiano,
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for me, it's more elegant andmore refined. It's more Yeah,
so I'm just reading about it justfor listeners. It's Pecorino is really in
the it's a bruto the market.It's a very regionalized grape. Not to
be confused with the cheese Pecorino cheese, even though the name is derived from
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the sheep, but they're very different. Though sheep used to eat the grapes
on the ground. I'm reading herein a wine business. It's had a
little bit of a renaissance in theUnited States, which is kind of interesting.
But as you said, it wasrediscovered and making its way. We
liked it a lot. You saidit's difficult to work with. Why is
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that because, I mean, it'svery because it believers sugar so fast and
if you miss the right day,I mean, if you miss one the
right day of harvest, the dayafter you will get i mean one or
one point five halcore percentage more thanthe previous day. And so it's very
(27:47):
difficult to deliver drinkability because it tendsto produce a lot of sugar and for
a lot of alcohol. Okay,that makes sense. Should we move on
the reins. Well, let's talkabout the chair. I thought we'd start
with the Montys that the cheris ismade with, right, So let's start
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with the elephant, the big,the biggie, the Monte Bruzzo, which
is the red which has a longhistory, a lot of misconceptions still and
is the foundation for the chair swallow, the Brusto, which we'll talk about
next. Yeah. Well, inmy opinion, I mean, Monte Bruzzo
is ah, it's like a Mustang, So it's I mean, it's it's
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when I think, when I thinkmont Bruzzo, I imagine a power and
very h very powerful, powerful grapeand therefore powerful wine. So it's very
it's very hard from my side tobeliever my style of Monteano, which is
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more which is mostly based on drinkability, acidity and elegance. So and that's
why I mean, there was amisconception about this great because it's always it
has been always used as a blendto reinforce weak wines from different areas of
(29:23):
Italy and Europe as well. Soit's almost the same story of Tregiano.
Many years of bulk wine, lowprices, bad images on the markets,
and it's only the last twenty twentyfive years that I mean again, iconic
(29:44):
wine makers and wineries were able toestablish a new idea of Mutts as one
of the candidate to produce. Imean, for sure one of the best
wine in Europe. I love thehe calls it the Mustang because you know,
(30:06):
it's strong on hard and drive itfast and drink it fast. And
in the United States it was it'sless. It's an inexpensive wine in the
United States and probably let few peopleunaware of its potential because as you said,
it was like you said with Trepianobulk wine, which is like a
lot of Italy. You know,for a long time, Italian wine produers
(30:29):
needed to make money and they neededto just sell wine, so they went
bulk versus quality. And then there'shuge shift started happening about twenty years ago
to go focus on quality and loweryields to do finer wines. It's all
a philosophical approach to business, rightexactly. It's all about your philosophic approach.
How would you compare? I alwaysliked doing this because I you know,
(30:52):
again, this is a podcast,so I try to help our listeners
visualized or I think in a tactileway. How would you can pair or
what grape would you compare trebiana jabruzzotoo if someone was thinking, I'd like
to try it, But what isit like? What is it compare to?
Wow, that's a differ, verydifficult, it is, But that's
(31:15):
how a lot of Americans think Francisco. Yeah, yeah, yeah, well,
I mean Tribiano. What can beTribriano? If people channel is a
is a mustang, Uh, Tribrianocould be I would say a dolphin because
(31:38):
I mean it reminds me of freshness, acidity, drinkability, smoothness, and
also elegance. So if you wantto continue using this animal symbolism, I
think that dolphin can really fit intomy idea of Tribriano. Well, we
(31:59):
can't it often, but I getthe idea in terms of a grape on
the spot. But in terms ofgrapes, I mean, it's the magic
of the wine is the fact thatevery drape I mean tastes different. So
it's it's very almost impossible to comparetrebiano to any other grape of the world.
(32:24):
There are some genetical similarities to theUni blanc in France, and yeah,
but if we take if we thinkabout flavored nests, one of the
best descriptor if the is the greenalmond. But again, just think about
(32:46):
very drinkable yet elegant wine and Imean, uh, taste it. That's
the best way. What about Mountthe Brute Sawo, I mean, it's
it's read through, it's it's wildberries and incredibly, even though I don't
(33:13):
make any usage of wooden cast ata certain point of its life, my
Montepu channels start delivering like chocolate andcoffee and olds that I love totally.
But when I tasted them, Igot a lot of earthy, branblely BlackBerry
herbal notes. You said, youknow, sometimes it's you think about when
(33:36):
you taste wine. You think aboutwhere the grapes are grown in the mountains
and the forests and the trees andthe foliage, and it all kind of
builds into the character the terr wa. Yeah, yeah, that's true.
So let's talk about the chairs wallowwine that uh huh. We don't get
a lot of in the United Statesbecause it's a rose first of all,
but most of the rose that comesinto this country is is much lighter in
(34:01):
color, dry incidity, et cetera, et cetera. So it's a style
that you make in a bruto thecerre azulla that we really don't get a
lot of. But it was justdelicious and it's a very gastronomic wine in
my opinion, so let's talk aboutit. And it's unique to a brutal
charastolla. The bruce is a doocg. It's a dec yes exactly. So
(34:21):
yeah, it's I mean, Imust admit that I'm I'm great fan of
chers. It's probably the my bestpreferred wine. So it's also and it's
also because I mean it was forus the most difficult wine to produce in
a forum because it was so sensitiveto the oxygen and it was so hard
(34:45):
to find the right balance during theduring the wine making, but also a
hard job. We had to workhardly in the beginner to get the perfect
mass maturation time. And that's why, I mean, I love him.
And it's also the wine that Ialways say that it's the wine that express
(35:12):
the real, uh, the realsoul of a brutzo because it's a simple
wine. It could be rustic somesome way, but I mean with a
lot of passion, with a greatheart and and and very gastronomic. I
mean, I just love him.With everything we produce in a Bruteso and
(35:36):
it's and it's also I always saythat it's the wine that the best,
that the express our traditions and ourhistory because when it when when it comes
to the cuisine, we have threemajor culture with within our region, we
(35:58):
have I mean the cuisine from thesea, the cusine from the hill and
from the mountain, from the mountains. Sorry, and Chruso is the only
one fitting perfectly these three different cuisineand that's why it's it's so magic and
(36:21):
that's why we love him. Welove it here in a Bruts. So
unfortunately it's so I mean, Ithink that the ninety percent of the chers
bruts so you see that we produceis sold within the region. But it's
a huge pity because again I reallymuch with a lot of different cuisine from
(36:42):
all over the world. Well withall a lot of that, we did
a master class. Fine, wedid do that. They were it was
interesting and I think you agree,David, you know the the cherso the
routs is a deeper, deeper coloredrose. I think you do your maceration
for six hours to crack with I'mwrong, exactly right, and uh,
(37:06):
but the range was very different.They were different. He's different flavors,
much like other styles of rose.And if there's a rose for everybody,
what do you feel the ideal quintessentialcheriswollo to brutzo. What would the ideal
characteristics be like if you were awine director talking to a customer or someone's
trying to sell it to someone whoit's not familiar with that Yeah, I
(37:30):
would definitely say versatility. So again, its versatility when it comes to one
foot pairing is uncomparable. Well,it's certainly a wine that you know,
can take you through a meal.I don't know if I would hang out
(37:51):
drink it sipping on at the beachas much as I would with a really
great piece of meat or chicken ora fish. You know what, we
do need a shout out about thecuisine of a brute, So we went
to the Troboki restaurants. Yeah,yeah, why don't you? Because you
mentioned cuisine and pairing, this isa great segue about some of the unique
(38:16):
cuisines of a brute. So let'sstart with the trobocci and what those are.
Well, Troboki, I'm not sureyou you tasted the fish soup with
the tomato sauce with the different kindof fishes that you can fish from a
(38:39):
troboco, which is a very oldsystem of fishing. It's called paranza.
So they have these huge nets thatthey go underwater and then they just hang
up and take them in. Allthe all the fishes that have been entrapped
(38:59):
by this huge net. So yeah, fish fish soup, for example,
is one of the best food pairingfor me. So when you go to
these they're old fishermen processing huts,I guess they're really hots facilities. They
(39:20):
look like somebody described them as theylook like spiders standing in the water.
Yeah, and you cross, SoI mean they're very rustic. When we
dined at one, the water wasjust below us and and the facilities were
a long way away, and thefood just kept coming out and coming out
(39:44):
and coming out, and it wasreally interesting. Yeah, it's it's one
of the places where I always bringthem in my imporders or clients from from
from from especially from from US andalso from other nations. So, I
mean they often come to visit usand they just mean love the troubleco thile
(40:05):
and and the guide of the lifewe have. This is a surprise isn't
it now? Speaking of coming there, you took us to show us you're
clamping, uh, your two glampinglittle cabins. Talk to us about the
experience. It was another dream,a dream into the dream, a dream
(40:31):
and a dream. Uh. Threeyears ago, we were just bored by
the COVID period. We were lockedin our house and together with my wife
Michaela, we start thinking about thefirst thing we will do after the COVID
and we start dreaming about visiting imin super cool countries and do some outside
(41:00):
life and camping. And we startwatching i mean following like Instagram accounts of
these super cool and super Nordic designedcabins that are that we mostly have in
the Nordic countries in Europe, andwe said, wow, I mean,
(41:21):
we have a good spot, wehave a great natural whether we make these
I mean in our state, inour property, and so we started.
I mean it was almost like themfor us. I mean we fell we
fell in love with something and wetry to apply to our and we try
to do that in in our inour property, and it's working. We
(41:45):
are so happy. Of course,it's so demanding because I mean, hosting
people is a it's a kind ofa mission, so you have truly believe
in that, and they had thevalue of hosting people and welcome people in
your house, and we really doour best. The cabins are super comfortable
(42:08):
with the air conditioning and outstanding viewon the valley. Come back soon and
spend a few nights in our cabin. Now they really are out there.
I mean again, as you said, sometimes the most amazing things you take
a lot more distance and effort toget to. And definitely Trellie is an
(42:30):
example. How would people go aboutfinding your winery and the glamping experience?
How, yeah, do you workwith a book company or did you just
go your website? Yes, yes, exactly through our website or booking or
Airbnb. We are almost on allthe European platform for booking. But of
(42:55):
course, I mean we have ourwebsite www. Dot agriculturally dot com and
you can just lug into and youfind all the there's also the twelve tour
of the cabins, so you canstep inside and see the furnitures and the
(43:15):
view. And we went on weactually took a little tour of those clamping
cabins too. They're kind of they'rekind of like safari tents and really just
well, let's at their cabins.I know that's but they're really really nice.
I mean they're well appointed. Imean there's and let me just say
air conditioning. Air conditioning is ararity and you're so that's like a big
(43:35):
bonus. And hair dryer. Soit has all the modern conveniences that one
would want and need. But you'restill way out there and the views are
amazing. There's olive groves, there'sfines, there are these colomkis uh and
valleys and hills. It's quite quitespectacular. We have two final questions we'd
(43:59):
like to ask you. First ofall, who do you most admire in
this industry? And why? Imean, you're self taught, so it's
always interesting too. You know,you interview a lot of people that apprentice
here and there, and they're bornin wine families, et cetera. Being
self taught and an entrepreneur, it'sinteresting to say who you admire and why.
(44:23):
M Well, there are many peoplethat I admire because I'm very humiled,
so I mean, I know whatmy limits are and I can easily
recognize of my colleagues. But I'llgive you as smart as well. I
(44:45):
must admire some areas in Europe theywere able to really change the image of
their wines, and there are forexample, I'll give you the sample of
the Beaujolais or or Juha. Sothey were really able to change the common
(45:05):
sense and all the prejudice about theirwines. And they did it like in
twenty years or even less. Andthis is what I really wish for my
region. It would be great tobe able to make what they've done.
Just think about Bourjolet and Mokgon.I mean their wines are now I mean
(45:30):
in all the coolest wine list inall over the world, and they were
known or just for I mean thenew wine I mean every year in this
gamet that no one was attentioning,and they totally revolutionated I mean the idea.
(45:50):
And so I admire, I meanI mostly admire. I mean these
places where they were able to worka team on the international markets. That's
a really neat comparison and a goodone for Bruso. I mean, we
were so impressed. We can't waitto go back. I mean the wineries.
I say we were kind of hitthe we hit the lucky draw when
(46:13):
it came to the wineries we visitedso amazing, including yours, and definitely
have earmarked a brutso to go backbecause it is a vast region. I
think a lot of people don't realizebecause they think it's a beachside community on
the Adriatic. But the much ofSicily. As we went, you go
into that mountainous area of each areaand you're blown away by the style and
(46:38):
quality of the wines produced, becausethere's something about mountain wines that just screamed
hair wide. All that tension anddealing with the different elements of weather that
those elements can create some amazing winesand soils. Right. Definitely, definitely,
I mean I love my region andI always by everybody to come and
(47:00):
visit us. I mean it's it'sa great place still still to discover,
so a little adventurous, great nature, great to great people. I mean
truly spiritual place where you can recoverand and at the same time I mean
(47:25):
get I mean the best out fromfrom our from our land. We have
the sea, we have mountains,we can we can ski in forty five
minutes from Pescata, from the airport. In forty five minutes, you can
go up on the mountain and uhand reach the first ski resorts. We
have beautiful sea, fantastic hills.So we are pretty complete and we are
(47:52):
still pleased and so happy when peoplefrom outside come and visitals, so please
do well. We plan to comeback again and we encourage our listeners to
do the same again. We havebeen speaking with Francesco Chiarelli, who's will
he represents the new image of aBruso, the dynamic energy, the commitment
(48:15):
to the soil and the earth,and minimal intervention and bringing out the true
Tewan character of some wines that arevery native to this area. You've got
the Monte Pulcian de Bruzzo, You'vegot Trebiano de Bruzzo, You've got the
Pecerino and of course Chiosuola de Bruzzo. These are very unique to the region
(48:37):
and definitely worth seeking out when youdine out or go to your retail.
Ask. You know, I alwayssay to people ask, ask and you'll
get. Thank you for joining us. We just want to again give your
website at Gricola Chiarelli C I RE L l I dot com. Thank
(48:58):
you for joining us on the Connectedtable. Thank you, Melanie, Thank
you, David, and thank youfor your to all your listeners our pleasure,
and as usual, we hope thatyou enjoyed this. We hope we've
transported you somewhere new to discover,because we want you to stay insatiably curious
The topics and opinions expressed and thefollowing show are solely those of the hosts
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(00:21):
W FOURCY Radio. Welcome to theConnected Table Live where your hosts Melanie Young
(00:44):
and David Ransom. You're insatiably curiousculinary couple. We bring you the dynamic
people who work front and center andbehind the scenes in wine, food,
spirits and hospitality around the world.We enjoy traveling, enjoy bringing their stories
to you or listeners, and wehope you'll take our suggestions and theres as
well and go out and try theirwines, visit their restaurants, visit their
(01:07):
wineries, and be adventurous because wealways believe life is about eating, drinking,
exploring, and inspiring. And speakingof inspiring, we have a guest
joining us from a region. Werecently visited a bruzso right, David,
absolutely Melanie, a place that wehad not been to before. So it
was an eye opener for us ina lot of ways. And lovely wines,
(01:30):
wonderful people and of course a greatcoastline. So just a little visualization
about where is a Bruso. Itis on the Adriatic side of Italy.
And what's neat about a Bruso ison one side is bordered by the Apennine
Mountains, which are really like thespine of Italy. They travel down the
(01:51):
center and they're very steep and it'svery dramatic drive actually, which we did
from the coast of a Bruzzo toRome through the Apenninis and then on the
seaside it's Adriatic which has very calmwaves. It's very placid there. It's
a popular vacation spot, very lowkey. We stated a lovely you know,
(02:14):
tourist hotel, lots of fun restaurants, obviously seafood, but also this
area is known for its meat dishesas well as seafood. Because you've got
the mountains and you've got the sea. So our trip was to learn about
the wines of a Bruzzo and wehad an incredible experience, and so our
guest today is one of the winerieswe visited, and this is a i
(02:38):
think, a young producer doing alot of things that we're seeing happening or
starting to happen around Italy. Heworks with Mphora. His name is Francesco
Chirelli and he and his wife Mikolaown an organic farm surrounded about twenty three
hectars more inland near the Grand SassoNational Park, which we'll talk about.
(03:00):
As we said, he works inAmphora, which is his thought process.
He is Demeter certified and fairly ayoung producer and we're really excited to have
Francesco Chirelli join us on the Connectedtable. Bim Venuto grad Semi, thank
you so much for this invitation.I appreciate that well, Francisca, we're
(03:21):
happy to have you on and wereally enjoyed visiting your winery as well.
It was, as Melanie said,you create your wines in amphora, which
is kind of a growing trend ina lot of places in Italy and around
the world these days to use Amphorato make some of the wines, but
you actually make all your wines inm fora so you've gone a step further,
(03:43):
and we were really happy to tastethe wines too. They were just
delicious. Let's start with location.We kind of set you up, but
I'll have to say it was quitethe ride in our bus to Agricolo,
which is really more inland and ina very dramatic area. So set the
stage by describing where you are inthe region of a briot cell. Yes,
(04:04):
sure, thanks for this opportunity.I always love to talk about the
region and the place where we are. So we are. I can say
that we are almost in the middleof nowhere, but only like I mean,
just thirteen thirteen kilometres from the seaand forty kilometrus from the Grand Stasso,
(04:24):
which is the highest peak of theItalian Apennines. And so yeah,
we are in the hilly area,right inside a natural reserve called Reserve at
Kalankidiatri, which is under the patronageof the w WF. It was a
very dramatic place, Melanie. Wewent down a number of very small and
(04:47):
potholed roads to get there. Itwas kind of fun and it was pouring
rain when we got there, butthen the sun came out and everything opened
up and we had a beautiful visitwith you. They have in that valley
that Francesco's winery and Melanie, theyalso have some bad lands, a steep
slope that you really can't grow anythingon. So it was really very dramatic.
It's really quite beautiful, like theColuncus. We're curious, Francesca,
(05:08):
what brought you to this area?Did you come here as a young boy
and you were driving? Yeah,nice question. Actually it was really it
just happened. So at that time, when I was twenty three years old,
I was almost on my way toget my graduation in business administration at
the Italian University. But at thesame time I was dreaming about being involved
(05:32):
at some level in agriculture, infarming, because my grandparents were both sides
coming from the land, from thesoil, and so I started dreaming and
sharing this dream with my parents.And one day it happened that we just
get lost there, I mean,driving the car trying to see beautiful places
(05:57):
and looking for properties tool to tobuy. We ended up in that place.
We just stepped down the car andwe had uh this dramatic view in
front of us, the bad lengthsand the up and lines and the sea
on the on the on the westside, on the east side actually,
(06:20):
and we felt in love immediately,and we were lucky enough that there was
a ticket with our whole number,thinking that that property was on sale.
And that night, I mean,I just came back home and the first
(06:41):
thing I did was calling this thefamily and yeah, And after one month
the deal was done, and Ichanged totally my life and I moved back
to Bruts and I started my uhyeah, my drink. That's serendipity.
It was, wasn't it amazing?So this was two thousand and three.
(07:06):
And then you said about obviously youbought the property, and you said about
planting vineyards. There was a veryold vineyard, which I wasn't able to
say it because it was it wasplanted at that time, I mean in
the in a bad place, soit was not suitable for a high quality
(07:29):
project which I had, like theone I had in my mind, and
so I had to destroy it.And we've replanted from scratch. So when
I pushes the land, there wasonly this old vineyard and one actor of
olive trees and that's all. Sothere was almost nothing and vines take time.
(07:49):
So you produced your first wine inI believe twenty eleven, right,
Yeah, because the first vineyard Iplanted was in two thousand and six,
I had to wait five years beforegetting good fruit and yourself taught. So
we just want to talk about that. So during this time, did you
apprentice with it? You know,obviously from a business standpoint, that's a
(08:11):
long time to wait to start producingyour inventory. Did you during that time
study or apprentice with anybody or kindof give us that sense of how you
became the winemaker as well as abusiness person. Yeah. Well, actually
that was one of the craziest thingsI've done, so starting everything from scratch
without any knowledgeable about wine making.So at that time I had this good
(08:37):
friend who was a winemaker and alsovery interesting small producer of wines in a
brutsom, and I remember that thefirst day of the harvest, I brought
all the grapes in the garage becauseat that time I haven't had, I
mean, a real wanery. SoI was making my first attempts with my
(08:58):
first three am fours in my garagand I called him and I almost pray
him, just please explain me howto start the press. So I didn't
know even how to start the machine. So it was like I don't know
how to call it. Actually itwas something crazy, but it works,
so I'm happy. That's great.You know, you actually learn from the
ground up, as they say,Yeah, I say that I learned.
(09:22):
I learned by mistaking. I don'tknow if that makes sense in English,
but we have this word in Italian. So learning about with a lot of
mistakes, thanks to thanks to alot of mistakes and failures. And now
I mean in the last years,of course we grow up. We're doing
some more more bottled, and Idecided to hire a full time winemaker with
(09:48):
my right hand, and we aredoing everything together. So at a certain
point it's important to recognize your limitand build a team that can manage every
thing better than what you can dowell. You have the divide and conquer
is in business and to build yourteam. Otherwise you're doing it all yourself
(10:09):
and that doesn't get you anywhere exceptin you know, circles. So a
couple of things. You are onehundred percent organic, minimal intervention. And
as we said at the beginning,you do your venification and everything in amphora.
Why is this important to you.And let's talk about your philosophy.
Yeah, my philosophy is very it'svery simple. Less is more, And
(10:35):
I truly believe that I'm fora reallyhelped me to get to this point where
the less we make, the betterit is. So we try to respect
the fruit and we try to dothe less during the wine making in order
to put in the bottle a realauthentic picture of our there are and I'm
(11:00):
for I mean, really it's sohelpful because it doesn't it doesn't give any
flavor, an external flavor to thewine. It respects the original flavor and
the original taste of the wine.It just helps the wine to refine.
Respecting is authenticity. We have hada lot of conversations with Vennor's about amphora,
(11:20):
from the size, to the shapeto the material made. You have
different amphora at Chiarelli. How dothese elements impact the wine? And I
mean, I guess we equate itmuch like barrels. You know, different
sizes and materials impact the wine.So give us an example with the employer
(11:41):
use the different kinds. So thebest example is the fact that I mean
mpora works like exactly like Barrique,So Budden cask. But I mean because
it allows the wine to breathe andto get the oxygen from the outside it,
but it doesn't give any added flowerSo this is the magic about Amphora.
(12:09):
And also it really helps the wineto moderate the tangents because of the
oxygen and because of its form anddimension so and size. So it's it's
a it's a great container. Imean, I'm so happy about that.
That's why I'm only working with themfor since the real beginning, since in
(12:33):
the twenty eleven and never changing andI don't think I will never change them.
Two other questions, and what Davidasked, you know you get your
you specifically sourced from Amphora in Tuscany, and it's I think this producer is
fairly producing producer. So why isthat? And is it a more expensive
process to do this? M MYeah, I'm sourcing, Yeah, yeah,
(12:56):
I'm sourcing. I'm sourcing them forus mostly nineteen nine percent from Artenova
in Tuscany because at that time ineleven, when I start studying and analyzing
the market of the forest, itwas the first result I got on Google
lesson and they were, i meanthe only one doing I mean in a
(13:18):
professional way. So I called themand I visited them and I was just
impressed by the quality of their oftheir work. And also in the last
years I found another producer from adifferent area, but I only had one
one and from from this guy fromAlla, which is in up north north
(13:41):
in Italy, in Trentino. Andthe cost of production, yes, it's
tremendously more expensive because I mean youreally need to you can only work by
hand, and everything has been byhand, and you have to be sot
t dear when it comes to cleaning, and so you have to spend a
(14:03):
lot of water and a lot ofsteam. So yeah, the final I
mean at the end of the year, the cost is pretty bigger. You
know, I'm curious, Francesco.One of the one of the things that
people pay attention to a lot inwine making is temperature control, which is
why the sameless steel tanks are jacketedwith the cooling unit. But you can't
(14:26):
do that with them for us.So how do you control the temperature in
the winery when you're making wine tomake sure that you're getting the best one
that you can out of the mfora Yeah, so there are solution also
if you work with them for us. So there are some ways more let's
say, artisanal way to control thetemperatures. But actually we excavated and we
(14:50):
we build this kind of amphor aya, so the place where all them for
us are and we covered them withsand and and stones to keep the temperature
as stable as possible. And wedo have very good results, especially with
(15:13):
the with the whites and the rosette, and sometimes we can suffer a little
bit with the with the red,with the multipl I mean, so far,
so good. We saw the sandand stone, it was like they
were buried, and that's how theydo. And also in Georgia we've seen
the and for a buried in theground. I've seen them a couple other
(15:33):
wineries in Italy as well. Yeah, and and and it's funny on your
So we want to just let ourlisteners know that zev Rovine Rovine Selections as
your importer and on their site theytalk you talk about how you have to
wear a bathing suit to get insideand for the clean it because of course
it's all about you know, keepingeverything clean. I'm trying to visualize that.
(15:58):
Yeah, that's the funniest. Whatare some of the challenges of you
know, it's a great philosophy,but with every pro there's also a challenge.
What are your challenges starting with yourlocation to your approach. Well,
yeah, I mean we face manychallenges over here. That's that's our that's
(16:18):
our job. So we always saythat we are under the sky underfore I
mean, we cannot forecast, andso whatever it comes from the sky,
we need to try to react inthe best way possible so that the first
challenge that we are fitting in thoseyears is for sure that the climate.
(16:45):
Because for example, I mean thisyear we had the most rainy year ever
if we compare with the last fortyforty five years in a brute saw and
you experience that that because when youcame, I mean the weather was not
that nice at all, So it'stoo much train and of course problems in
(17:07):
the the min yards, uh andand and and in the country. Last
year, in the last three orfour years, we faced i mean draft
and very hot temperature. So everyyear is different. There is not uh
consistent weather and so yeah, wehave to adapt to that. I think
(17:30):
that this is the most difficult thingto manage because I mean, if we
have problems in the in the cellarour I mean logistics warehouse whatever. I
mean, we can always fix it. But with the weather there is nothing
to do unfortunately, so it's prettypretty pretty difficult. We'll see what's gonna
(17:57):
happen in the last in the nextyear. Oh, everybody is experiencing that.
It seems like RT David everywhere,Yeah, everywhere. Yeah. So
Bruto is known for very specific grapes. First of all, are all your
grapes a stake grown or do yousource from elsewhere? Francesca. And when
(18:18):
it comes to the wines that weproduce in anforum, we hardly make them
out of our property buyings. Butthen we also have a kind of a
second line, which I mean it'stotally outsourced from organic certified producers. We're
working with them since like ten yearsnow, and we produce more entry level
(18:45):
daily kind of a daily drinking stylewine Stainley steel tanks, fermented and refined,
but still I mean a tedt wardriven authenticity and simplicity, which is
from our side, I mean anothervalue. So when we were there we
did the tasting. It's probably whatLacarina Biological is and how it relates to
(19:08):
La Biological. Yeah, thank youfor the for this, I mean La
Colina biologica is like it's a negos. So a negos is I mean a
way to produce wine outsourcing the grapes. So it's a brand that we established
to delivered to the one to themarkets more entry level wines, but still
(19:36):
with a with authentic t and asense of a great sense of place.
So that's that's La colinabiological. Whereasthe four wines are under the brand Francisco
because as I was saying before,and they're made out of our They're exclusively
(19:57):
made out of our property, minesand property grapes. Thank you for that
clarification. And and just for ourlisteners, if you're shopping for these,
you can't miss the label because it'slike a thumbprint of color in an amphora,
like a big splot, you know, drop a wine splash an amphor
(20:18):
of white, red and and exactly, and and I think it's a very
simple, but it actually the thelabel kind of reflects the simplicity. And
it's a minimal intervention label. Thankyou. So as I told you before,
I mean we are minimal, andwe we are I mean we really
(20:41):
believe the less is more so theless we put in the label and the
battery. It is also for theconsumer. Well, let's talk about some
of the native grapes that you workwith in your amphora, starting with uh.
You know there's two in particular thatbrutso is most well known for.
(21:03):
We'll start with the white trebiano thebrutso. Now, as we all know,
there's many tribuanos. It's a prolificrape, but it has its own
unique style in a brutso, andit's a signature. Yes, indeed,
I think, I mean, ofcourse, I mean I'm totally involved in
that, but I really find thetribuana to be one of the most interesting
(21:25):
ray because it has been under valuedfor us so many years. And even
though I mean it has I meanall the quality uh and all the characteristics
tool to shine for drinkability but alsofor elegance and for for aging. So
(21:51):
we have iconic one where is ina brutso, showing that tribuano can be
a real and I can't again aniconic wine all over the world, and
we are so proud of that.But it's like I mean everything, I
mean, it always it always depends, I mean, how you work with
(22:12):
that grape. So you can makestupid wine with a grape, with that
grape, but it can even makeI mean, if you really believe and
if you have strong identity and clearideas, you can really make great wine.
You know, I always wonder Davidand Francesco why Trepiano is malaligin,
because we've it's prolific. It's everywhere. It's like the vine, the krops
(22:37):
and crawls everywhere, but so different, and some regions respect it more than
others, don't you think, Francesca, Yes, totally, totally. Then
it really depends from the tradition ofthis place. You know, Italy has,
like I mean nineteen or twenty Idon't even remember, different regions,
and every region shows its own traditionalhistory. This tradition and history reflects also
(23:03):
the idea that they have for thatspecific rape. So in a brutto we
change it. I mean the commonsense about the Tribuano and I mean I
say we, but actually again,I mean if many producers did, I
mean a great job before I meanmy before, my my wines, my
(23:30):
my starting in this world. Soit really it really depends. I mean,
what do you want to what doyou wanna do? Some regions.
I mean they they are still focusedon tribiano as a through it suitable for
bulk wines only or for blending otherother wines in a bruto. In the
(23:52):
last twenty years we wanted to it'sa kind of a renaissance. It's a
new wave. And you you saythat at the beginning. There is a
new generation of wind makers, especiallysmall one or second generation winer is that
are really changing the uh the wayand are really changing I mean the the
(24:21):
wine itself and and the and thenthe tribuano. So they are working differently
in the in the vineyards and workingdifferently in the during the wine making in
order to produce super authentic There aredriven wines like them, didn't you I
did? Yeah, I like thema lot. Francisco another one of the
(24:42):
grapes that you make wine with isactually kind of a favorite of mind from
the region Pecorino. Another white Let'stalk about the pegna you make, Yeah,
Pecrino. I mean it's uh,let's say that it has been the
one of Yeah, I would say, the last uh, this caldary in
a brute. So it's like againtwenty years that when makers started to replant
(25:10):
it and and experimenting with that.With this grape, it's more aromatic than
Tribiano. It delivers more alcohol.It's pretty difficult to harvest this grape and
the right moment. And I wouldsay that. I mean, in my
(25:33):
opinion, I don't think it hasmore complex than Tribiano, because I mean,
I'm a truly lover and a true, true fan of Tripiano. So
if I had to choose between thetwo, my heart would choose definitely Tribiano.
I think as Pecorino as a moreI would say more. How can
(25:56):
I say that? More? Notstandardized, but I mean I think that
it please wider range of consumer.Let's put this way. Tribiano is a
little bit more niche, I wouldsay Pecorino. No, the Tribriano is
(26:18):
more niche in the Pecorino. Nowthat's interesting. Yeah, that's my that's
my personal opinion. I mean,I'm sure, I mean, there are
thirty wind makers from a bruts soready to what I'm saying, because I
mean, that's the magic of wine. I mean, it's so personal,
it's so subjective. So yeah,I believe that I believe that the Tribiano,
(26:41):
for me, it's more elegant andmore refined. It's more Yeah,
so I'm just reading about it justfor listeners. It's Pecorino is really in
the it's a bruto the market.It's a very regionalized grape. Not to
be confused with the cheese Pecorino cheese, even though the name is derived from
(27:03):
the sheep, but they're very different. Though sheep used to eat the grapes
on the ground. I'm reading herein a wine business. It's had a
little bit of a renaissance in theUnited States, which is kind of interesting.
But as you said, it wasrediscovered and making its way. We
liked it a lot. You saidit's difficult to work with. Why is
(27:25):
that because, I mean, it'svery because it believers sugar so fast and
if you miss the right day,I mean, if you miss one the
right day of harvest, the dayafter you will get i mean one or
one point five halcore percentage more thanthe previous day. And so it's very
(27:47):
difficult to deliver drinkability because it tendsto produce a lot of sugar and for
a lot of alcohol. Okay,that makes sense. Should we move on
the reins. Well, let's talkabout the chair. I thought we'd start
with the Montys that the cheris ismade with, right, So let's start
(28:08):
with the elephant, the big,the biggie, the Monte Bruzzo, which
is the red which has a longhistory, a lot of misconceptions still and
is the foundation for the chair swallow, the Brusto, which we'll talk about
next. Yeah. Well, inmy opinion, I mean, Monte Bruzzo
is ah, it's like a Mustang, So it's I mean, it's it's
(28:33):
when I think, when I thinkmont Bruzzo, I imagine a power and
very h very powerful, powerful grapeand therefore powerful wine. So it's very
it's very hard from my side tobeliever my style of Monteano, which is
(28:56):
more which is mostly based on drinkability, acidity and elegance. So and that's
why I mean, there was amisconception about this great because it's always it
has been always used as a blendto reinforce weak wines from different areas of
(29:23):
Italy and Europe as well. Soit's almost the same story of Tregiano.
Many years of bulk wine, lowprices, bad images on the markets,
and it's only the last twenty twentyfive years that I mean again, iconic
(29:44):
wine makers and wineries were able toestablish a new idea of Mutts as one
of the candidate to produce. Imean, for sure one of the best
wine in Europe. I love thehe calls it the Mustang because you know,
(30:06):
it's strong on hard and drive itfast and drink it fast. And
in the United States it was it'sless. It's an inexpensive wine in the
United States and probably let few peopleunaware of its potential because as you said,
it was like you said with Trepianobulk wine, which is like a
lot of Italy. You know,for a long time, Italian wine produers
(30:29):
needed to make money and they neededto just sell wine, so they went
bulk versus quality. And then there'shuge shift started happening about twenty years ago
to go focus on quality and loweryields to do finer wines. It's all
a philosophical approach to business, rightexactly. It's all about your philosophic approach.
How would you compare? I alwaysliked doing this because I you know,
(30:52):
again, this is a podcast,so I try to help our listeners
visualized or I think in a tactileway. How would you can pair or
what grape would you compare trebiana jabruzzotoo if someone was thinking, I'd like
to try it, But what isit like? What is it compare to?
Wow, that's a differ, verydifficult, it is, But that's
(31:15):
how a lot of Americans think Francisco. Yeah, yeah, yeah, well,
I mean Tribiano. What can beTribriano? If people channel is a
is a mustang, Uh, Tribrianocould be I would say a dolphin because
(31:38):
I mean it reminds me of freshness, acidity, drinkability, smoothness, and
also elegance. So if you wantto continue using this animal symbolism, I
think that dolphin can really fit intomy idea of Tribriano. Well, we
(31:59):
can't it often, but I getthe idea in terms of a grape on
the spot. But in terms ofgrapes, I mean, it's the magic
of the wine is the fact thatevery drape I mean tastes different. So
it's it's very almost impossible to comparetrebiano to any other grape of the world.
(32:24):
There are some genetical similarities to theUni blanc in France, and yeah,
but if we take if we thinkabout flavored nests, one of the
best descriptor if the is the greenalmond. But again, just think about
(32:46):
very drinkable yet elegant wine and Imean, uh, taste it. That's
the best way. What about Mountthe Brute Sawo, I mean, it's
it's read through, it's it's wildberries and incredibly, even though I don't
(33:13):
make any usage of wooden cast ata certain point of its life, my
Montepu channels start delivering like chocolate andcoffee and olds that I love totally.
But when I tasted them, Igot a lot of earthy, branblely BlackBerry
herbal notes. You said, youknow, sometimes it's you think about when
(33:36):
you taste wine. You think aboutwhere the grapes are grown in the mountains
and the forests and the trees andthe foliage, and it all kind of
builds into the character the terr wa. Yeah, yeah, that's true.
So let's talk about the chairs wallowwine that uh huh. We don't get
a lot of in the United Statesbecause it's a rose first of all,
but most of the rose that comesinto this country is is much lighter in
(34:01):
color, dry incidity, et cetera, et cetera. So it's a style
that you make in a bruto thecerre azulla that we really don't get a
lot of. But it was justdelicious and it's a very gastronomic wine in
my opinion, so let's talk aboutit. And it's unique to a brutal
charastolla. The bruce is a doocg. It's a dec yes exactly. So
(34:21):
yeah, it's I mean, Imust admit that I'm I'm great fan of
chers. It's probably the my bestpreferred wine. So it's also and it's
also because I mean it was forus the most difficult wine to produce in
a forum because it was so sensitiveto the oxygen and it was so hard
(34:45):
to find the right balance during theduring the wine making, but also a
hard job. We had to workhardly in the beginner to get the perfect
mass maturation time. And that's why, I mean, I love him.
And it's also the wine that Ialways say that it's the wine that express
(35:12):
the real, uh, the realsoul of a brutzo because it's a simple
wine. It could be rustic somesome way, but I mean with a
lot of passion, with a greatheart and and and very gastronomic. I
mean, I just love him.With everything we produce in a Bruteso and
(35:36):
it's and it's also I always saythat it's the wine that the best,
that the express our traditions and ourhistory because when it when when it comes
to the cuisine, we have threemajor culture with within our region, we
(35:58):
have I mean the cuisine from thesea, the cusine from the hill and
from the mountain, from the mountains. Sorry, and Chruso is the only
one fitting perfectly these three different cuisineand that's why it's it's so magic and
(36:21):
that's why we love him. Welove it here in a Bruts. So
unfortunately it's so I mean, Ithink that the ninety percent of the chers
bruts so you see that we produceis sold within the region. But it's
a huge pity because again I reallymuch with a lot of different cuisine from
(36:42):
all over the world. Well withall a lot of that, we did
a master class. Fine, wedid do that. They were it was
interesting and I think you agree,David, you know the the cherso the
routs is a deeper, deeper coloredrose. I think you do your maceration
for six hours to crack with I'mwrong, exactly right, and uh,
(37:06):
but the range was very different.They were different. He's different flavors,
much like other styles of rose.And if there's a rose for everybody,
what do you feel the ideal quintessentialcheriswollo to brutzo. What would the ideal
characteristics be like if you were awine director talking to a customer or someone's
trying to sell it to someone whoit's not familiar with that Yeah, I
(37:30):
would definitely say versatility. So again, its versatility when it comes to one
foot pairing is uncomparable. Well,it's certainly a wine that you know,
can take you through a meal.I don't know if I would hang out
(37:51):
drink it sipping on at the beachas much as I would with a really
great piece of meat or chicken ora fish. You know what, we
do need a shout out about thecuisine of a brute, So we went
to the Troboki restaurants. Yeah,yeah, why don't you? Because you
mentioned cuisine and pairing, this isa great segue about some of the unique
(38:16):
cuisines of a brute. So let'sstart with the trobocci and what those are.
Well, Troboki, I'm not sureyou you tasted the fish soup with
the tomato sauce with the different kindof fishes that you can fish from a
(38:39):
troboco, which is a very oldsystem of fishing. It's called paranza.
So they have these huge nets thatthey go underwater and then they just hang
up and take them in. Allthe all the fishes that have been entrapped
(38:59):
by this huge net. So yeah, fish fish soup, for example,
is one of the best food pairingfor me. So when you go to
these they're old fishermen processing huts,I guess they're really hots facilities. They
(39:20):
look like somebody described them as theylook like spiders standing in the water.
Yeah, and you cross, SoI mean they're very rustic. When we
dined at one, the water wasjust below us and and the facilities were
a long way away, and thefood just kept coming out and coming out
(39:44):
and coming out, and it wasreally interesting. Yeah, it's it's one
of the places where I always bringthem in my imporders or clients from from
from from especially from from US andalso from other nations. So, I
mean they often come to visit usand they just mean love the troubleco thile
(40:05):
and and the guide of the lifewe have. This is a surprise isn't
it now? Speaking of coming there, you took us to show us you're
clamping, uh, your two glampinglittle cabins. Talk to us about the
experience. It was another dream,a dream into the dream, a dream
(40:31):
and a dream. Uh. Threeyears ago, we were just bored by
the COVID period. We were lockedin our house and together with my wife
Michaela, we start thinking about thefirst thing we will do after the COVID
and we start dreaming about visiting imin super cool countries and do some outside
(41:00):
life and camping. And we startwatching i mean following like Instagram accounts of
these super cool and super Nordic designedcabins that are that we mostly have in
the Nordic countries in Europe, andwe said, wow, I mean,
(41:21):
we have a good spot, wehave a great natural whether we make these
I mean in our state, inour property, and so we started.
I mean it was almost like themfor us. I mean we fell we
fell in love with something and wetry to apply to our and we try
to do that in in our inour property, and it's working. We
(41:45):
are so happy. Of course,it's so demanding because I mean, hosting
people is a it's a kind ofa mission, so you have truly believe
in that, and they had thevalue of hosting people and welcome people in
your house, and we really doour best. The cabins are super comfortable
(42:08):
with the air conditioning and outstanding viewon the valley. Come back soon and
spend a few nights in our cabin. Now they really are out there.
I mean again, as you said, sometimes the most amazing things you take
a lot more distance and effort toget to. And definitely Trellie is an
(42:30):
example. How would people go aboutfinding your winery and the glamping experience?
How, yeah, do you workwith a book company or did you just
go your website? Yes, yes, exactly through our website or booking or
Airbnb. We are almost on allthe European platform for booking. But of
(42:55):
course, I mean we have ourwebsite www. Dot agriculturally dot com and
you can just lug into and youfind all the there's also the twelve tour
of the cabins, so you canstep inside and see the furnitures and the
(43:15):
view. And we went on weactually took a little tour of those clamping
cabins too. They're kind of they'rekind of like safari tents and really just
well, let's at their cabins.I know that's but they're really really nice.
I mean they're well appointed. Imean there's and let me just say
air conditioning. Air conditioning is ararity and you're so that's like a big
(43:35):
bonus. And hair dryer. Soit has all the modern conveniences that one
would want and need. But you'restill way out there and the views are
amazing. There's olive groves, there'sfines, there are these colomkis uh and
valleys and hills. It's quite quitespectacular. We have two final questions we'd
(43:59):
like to ask you. First ofall, who do you most admire in
this industry? And why? Imean, you're self taught, so it's
always interesting too. You know,you interview a lot of people that apprentice
here and there, and they're bornin wine families, et cetera. Being
self taught and an entrepreneur, it'sinteresting to say who you admire and why.
(44:23):
M Well, there are many peoplethat I admire because I'm very humiled,
so I mean, I know whatmy limits are and I can easily
recognize of my colleagues. But I'llgive you as smart as well. I
(44:45):
must admire some areas in Europe theywere able to really change the image of
their wines, and there are forexample, I'll give you the sample of
the Beaujolais or or Juha. Sothey were really able to change the common
(45:05):
sense and all the prejudice about theirwines. And they did it like in
twenty years or even less. Andthis is what I really wish for my
region. It would be great tobe able to make what they've done.
Just think about Bourjolet and Mokgon.I mean their wines are now I mean
(45:30):
in all the coolest wine list inall over the world, and they were
known or just for I mean thenew wine I mean every year in this
gamet that no one was attentioning,and they totally revolutionated I mean the idea.
(45:50):
And so I admire, I meanI mostly admire. I mean these
places where they were able to worka team on the international markets. That's
a really neat comparison and a goodone for Bruso. I mean, we
were so impressed. We can't waitto go back. I mean the wineries.
I say we were kind of hitthe we hit the lucky draw when
(46:13):
it came to the wineries we visitedso amazing, including yours, and definitely
have earmarked a brutso to go backbecause it is a vast region. I
think a lot of people don't realizebecause they think it's a beachside community on
the Adriatic. But the much ofSicily. As we went, you go
into that mountainous area of each areaand you're blown away by the style and
(46:38):
quality of the wines produced, becausethere's something about mountain wines that just screamed
hair wide. All that tension anddealing with the different elements of weather that
those elements can create some amazing winesand soils. Right. Definitely, definitely,
I mean I love my region andI always by everybody to come and
(47:00):
visit us. I mean it's it'sa great place still still to discover,
so a little adventurous, great nature, great to great people. I mean
truly spiritual place where you can recoverand and at the same time I mean
(47:25):
get I mean the best out fromfrom our from our land. We have
the sea, we have mountains,we can we can ski in forty five
minutes from Pescata, from the airport. In forty five minutes, you can
go up on the mountain and uhand reach the first ski resorts. We
have beautiful sea, fantastic hills.So we are pretty complete and we are
(47:52):
still pleased and so happy when peoplefrom outside come and visitals, so please
do well. We plan to comeback again and we encourage our listeners to
do the same again. We havebeen speaking with Francesco Chiarelli, who's will
he represents the new image of aBruso, the dynamic energy, the commitment
(48:15):
to the soil and the earth,and minimal intervention and bringing out the true
Tewan character of some wines that arevery native to this area. You've got
the Monte Pulcian de Bruzzo, You'vegot Trebiano de Bruzzo, You've got the
Pecerino and of course Chiosuola de Bruzzo. These are very unique to the region
(48:37):
and definitely worth seeking out when youdine out or go to your retail.
Ask. You know, I alwayssay to people ask, ask and you'll
get. Thank you for joining us. We just want to again give your
website at Gricola Chiarelli C I RE L l I dot com. Thank
(48:58):
you for joining us on the Connectedtable. Thank you, Melanie, Thank
you, David, and thank youfor your to all your listeners our pleasure,
and as usual, we hope thatyou enjoyed this. We hope we've
transported you somewhere new to discover,because we want you to stay insatiably curious
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