Author Matt Moore Shares Stories of Butchers in Latest Book

Matt Moore's book, "Butcher on the Block" (William Morrow) cuts close to the heart. His grandfather, Abraham Samuel Dennis, owned Dennis Food Store in Valdosta, Georgia, where Matt recalls Abe's butchering skills and family dishes. Matt shares stories and expert tips from local butchers in the U.S. and France. A Nashville resident. Matt is an author, cook and airplane pilot whose other books include: "The South's Best Butts," "Serial Griller" and "A Southern Gentleman's Kitchen."

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Episode Transcript

(00:00):
The topics and opinions expressed in thefollowing show are solely those of the hosts
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(00:21):
W FORCY Radio. Welcome to theConnected Table Live. We're your hosts,

(00:44):
Melanie Young and David Ransom, yourinsatiably curious culinary couple. We enjoy bringing
you our listeners the amazing people wemeet during our travels, both in the
United States and around the world.We love sharing their back stories and what
they're doing with you, and hopeit gets too excited to drink their wines,
by their books, and eat theirfood because we enjoy doing it.

(01:08):
We are state side today, actuallypractically in our backyard in Tennessee, right
David. Yes, we aren't fullsummertime right now, and we're kind of
enjoying the summer lifestyle doing a littlebit of rose wine, drinking white wine,
drinking not as much red right now. But we're also doing a lot
of cooking and one of the thingswe're doing is breaking out the grill.

(01:29):
Yes, yes, And so we'reexcited to have our current guest, who's
actually we very rarely repeat guests,but we love him so much and we
have such a kinship for him thathe's back to talk about what he's been
doing in life since we last spoketo him, which is well before the
pandemic. And he has a newbook as well. I love introducing Matt
Moore as author, entrepreneur, cook, musician, pilot, adventure father,

(01:57):
husband, and Southern gentleman. Heis in Nashville. We are in Cha
Nuga. We could practically touch eachother. He is author of I think
it's five books, so correct meif I'm wrong. We've had on Serial
Griller that was probably one of ourfavorites. He's done terrific books. The
South's bet Spots is my favorite.Yes, this is his third appearance on

(02:19):
the show. Yeah, so thisis the third. And I did like
The South's Best, but I actuallywrote some barbecue articles inspired by that.
You like sereal Griller This book isa completely interesting approach and innovative in a
lot of ways. It's called Butcheron the Block everyday recipes, stories,
inspirations from your local butcher and beyond. Hey, David, can you tell

(02:40):
me the name of your local butcherwhen you were growing up? It was
Bill from Rossetti's Bedford Market in westwesternNew York. Bill the butcher, I'm
pretty impressed. And the other onewas Claude. Well, Claude made the
bacon, Bill cut the meat.Well, you know, my family wasn't
as wonderful about those things as yours, but they knew all the local people

(03:01):
at the supermarket, which I haveto give Matt a lot of credit.
He gives a shout out to hislocal butcher at Kroger's. It was endearing
to me. Anyway, we're goingto bring him on to share first his
back story and then we'll talk aboutButcher on the Block. Hey, Matt
Moore, welcome. Hey, thanksso much for having me. So we
introduced you, but for our listenerswho have not heard our other shows with

(03:23):
you, give us a little bitof your back story and how you came
to be in Nashville, because youactually were born and raised elsewhere. Yeah,
I grew up a suburb of Atlanta, great city, even better university
and went to school at University ofGeorgia, so have to say, go
dogs. And I was in aband at that time, a seven man

(03:44):
circus, a jam band playing theEastern Seaboard, And grew up in a
family. We're cooking was at theheart and soul of what we did.
My grandmother was probably one of thegreatest cooks I've known, and my second
book of Southern Gentleman's Kitchen, Ihad the opportunity to kind of pay a
manage to her and to my grandfatherand my father's side, who was in
the cattle business. You know.Ultimately, when I moved to Nashville for
writing music and writing songs and greattown to be in, but I don't

(04:08):
think the country music publishers and executivesappreciated my approach for writing songs like the
Grateful Dad, and that kind oftuned me more into writing cookbooks. Did
a lot of fun things in music, and toured and played with a lot
of folks that are great and hadsuccessful careers today, and I decided I
wanted to write a cookbook teaching guyshad a cook for girls, and ultimately

(04:29):
that book was called Have Her Overfor Dinner. It was turned down by
every publisher an agent in New Yorkbecause I wasn't a celebrity and I wasn't
a chef, and quite honestly,I didn't really know what I was doing.
But I decided to put that bookout, spent a lot of time
working on it, and self publishedthe book, and eventually it was named
one of the year's best cookbooks bythe New York Times. And that led
me to the second book, whichwas called A Southern Gentleman's Kitchen, again

(04:50):
an opportunity to pay homage to myfamily, to the South, to our
cuisine, but more broadly to thisidea that you can become a better man
through food, so you can asterthe qualities of chivalry and hospitality and generosity
and intellectual curiosity through cooking. Andthen I like to say that I sort
of ruined it by writing a bookcalled the South's Best Spots. By the

(05:11):
time, my publisher was Southern Living, and it's just such an iconic dream
to be able to work with abrand like that, And they said,
why don't you go on the roadand tell other people's stories, and that's
really kind of kicked off really thelast three books. So South's Best Butts
was a grand tour of the barbecuebelt, you know, the heart and
soul of the pitmaster and tracing downtheir stories and secrets of what barbecue is

(05:33):
in the South and how it's evolving. Followed that in twenty twenty with my
homage to live fire grilling. SerialGriller was the title of that book,
and we traveled the entire country andfeatured folks like Michael Solomon off It's a
hob or Ashley Christiansen and Raleigh evenCadillac, who cooks outside of an adult

(05:54):
entertainment club in Atlanta. You know, just the diverse cast of folks and
crew. And now here we aretwenty twenty three Butcher on the Block,
and again it was an opportunity forme to travel not just the United States,
but to the south of France,where I spent a lot of time
in other worlds in business and kindof combine the art of barbecue and grilling

(06:15):
by starting at the butcher and thebutcher shop is something that's continuously evolving and
at the same time as a chancefor me to pay homage to my to
my own family, as my grandfatheron my mother's side was a butcher in
Valdosta, Georgia. Yeah. Yeah, that's a big reveal in The Butcher
on the Block and we had wewere talking about well, first of at
Valdosta, Georgia. I told Davidthis morning, that's like when we were
doing road trips to Fort Lauderdale forspring break. When you hit Valdosta,

(06:40):
it was like, we're almost there. I mean, you're it's like the
halfway point to go to Florida,and it was our pit stop every spring
break. You share a really greatstory about your great i think your great
great grandfather, his service to thecountry and where he came from it.
And we learned that, you know, there's some Lebanese roots there which you

(07:01):
pay homage to as well in TheButcher on the Block. So tell us,
you know, because you start withfamily, talk to us about your
family and how they got into butcheringand how they came to the United States.
Yeah. So really that was oneof the most interesting parts of researching
this book is kind of turning thelens back on my own family, my

(07:23):
parents and cousins and uncles, andin my mom's family, actually everybody is
an uncle there. There's no cousins, uncle and aunt, even though they're
actually cousins, So that was alwaysconfusing as a kid. But it was
my great great grandfather who came overfirst. He was in Beirut Lebanon,
and first went to France obviously there'sa lot of history between those two countries,

(07:45):
and then decided to come to theUnited States through Ellis Island. And
as we were always told my mom'sside of the family, their last name
was Dennis, but really it wasNazarella, and he changed the name in
the line at Ellis Island because hewanted it to sound more American. And
he made his way from New Yorkdown through the South, spent some time

(08:07):
in Tennessee, and then ultimately woundup in Valdosta and Lebanese culture there's kind
of hot spots Jacksonville, Florida,Birmingham, Alabama as a word, of
those communities you know, would goas we still see with immigration patterns today.
And he just had a fruit standand a gas station is how things
started. Eventually, his son Samwho's my great great grandfather, kind of

(08:28):
took that over and built that andMy grandfather was born here in the United
States, you know, grew upduring the Great Depressions, left them the
floors in the back of the store, and then he ultimately with his brother,
went to serve in World War Two. He was a mess sergeant in
the United States Army Air Corps.This was before the Air Force. And

(08:48):
you know, the book starts offthe first line of the book is,
technically this is not a book aboutbutchering, or say it is about the
butcher. And for my mom,my grandfather had always told her a story
that when he was in the service, a few weeks in October of nineteen
forty one, he was going tobe deployed. Back then, it was
a place that probably most folks hadnever heard of, called Pearl Harbor.

(09:11):
And you know, I can onlyimagine, you know, the son of
a first generation Elebanese immigrant who fromValdosta, Florida or Georgia, you know,
sleeping on wooden floors signing up forthe service. You know, the
war was going on in Europe,but it really wasn't a real thing.
And the fact that he was goingto go see pula skirts and rip curls

(09:31):
and pig roasts probably had to bequite exciting, but ultimately he was pulled
off of that deployment and in Decemberseventh, nineteen forty one, I think
history kind of changed forever. Heultimately made his way to Pearl Harbor at
the end of the war, butmost of his service was was kind of
peace peaceful service, kind of behindthe front lines, if you will.
Speaking of interviewing family members, mycousin Sam, who's named after my great

(09:56):
grandfather. He's the son of mygrandfather's brother and he's still alive. He's
an attorney in South Georgia. He'severything you want him to be, you
know, my cousin Vinnie kind ofstyle. And I spent a lot of
time with Valdosta retracing these stories andfamily history. And one night, ever
Bourbon, Sam was telling me thestory of my great uncle David, and

(10:16):
he served in the Army Air Corpsas well, but he was in New
Guinea and before he passed away,Sam, being the attorney that he is,
he deposed his father. He said, I want to get you on
tape to tell us all these grandstories. And we listened to a story
that he was in the foxholes inNew Guinea and every afternoon, the Japanese
zeros would come and straight to thefields just to let everybody know, hey,

(10:37):
we're here, we're not engaged inbattles. And one day my great
uncle David said that an airmail packagecame with blue Mason jars, and if
you're from the South, you knowthe blue Mason jar, especially the thirty
two ounce size. And accordingly,my great great grandmother Sophie had fried chicken
and Valdosta, Georgia stuffed it inblue Mason jars with newspaper and somehow it

(11:00):
made its way across the Pacific toNew Guinea. And we just got a
huge laugh over that story because hetold a lot of tall tales, but
I left the line that if you'veever had her family's fried chicken, it
can make you believe in the impossible. And so it was those kind of
stories that I had not known thatwere really serendipous to come across by writing

(11:20):
this book. Well, in oneof the sections you talk about Abraham Samuel
Dennis and the Dennis Food Store,and the story is so great because my
family came over to Ellis Island aswell, Matt, and they started as
peddlers like your ancestors and eventually settledin Tennessee. I was fascinated by this
immigration and didn't know, David,did you know that there was a Lebanese

(11:45):
community in Birmingham and Valdosa. Ididn't know that anything. But in the
book you have dishes dedicated to yourfamily heritage and looked really good. Kibba
Is it called kibba? Yeah?Kid it? So we feature kibe ya,

(12:05):
which is well, kida is kindof a catch all term for essentially
a ground a raw served meats,not raw, but a ground meat,
bulgar, wheat, and then typicallyonion, salt, and pepper, and
you've got different versions. So kibeandya is the raw version. And I
always kind of explain to people likein Lebanese culture, kibenia is sort of

(12:28):
like for Southerners, that's like ourbarbecue or our fried chicken, or if
you're from Louisiana, it's sort oflike your gumbo. It's it's a celebratory
dish. It is in the nayafashion or the raw fashion. It's ground
just top round, which is avery lean, typically tough cut, but
there's no fat, and you grindthat and you combine it with bulgar wheat.

(12:50):
Number one is the grain on that, so it's a really fine grain.
And then you just combine it witha lot of grated onion, salt,
and pepper, and that's a dishthat I grew up on every holiday.
It is raw meat. I didn'tknow until maybe I was thirteen or
fourteen years old that I was eatingraw meat, but I just loved it,
and it was one of those flavorsthat's just so iconic. And I

(13:11):
have to tell you just a fewweeks ago, we were doing a shoot
here at the house and we madethe kidbe nia and the Old World tradition.
My grandparents were Catholic, so itwas always a customary to place a
cross on top of it before youserved it, and you drizzle it with
olive oil and serve it with rawonion and flatbread. We used to refer

(13:31):
to it as Syrian bread. Askids and I came back inside, I
had the kids over. After theshoot. We had some adults were hanging
out in the front porch and there'sfive or six kids hanging out and we
had the plate of it sitting there, and I guess one of the kids
came in off the trampoline. Theygot a taste for it, and all
the other kids came in. Wehad no idea this was going on,
and I had planned to make thebaked version of the dish a few hours

(13:54):
later, which we also featured inthe books. So you serve it raw
first after a couple of hours,then you might put in the fridge over
night and then bake it or fryit off. And I came back in
and there was probably two pounds ofthis with bread, and these kids probably
I think there was five kids.They all arrange an age between six and
eight years old. One of themgot a taste, told the other ones,
and by the time I came inside, it was all gone. And

(14:16):
you know, our friends that wereever were apologizing for the fact that they
had devoured this, and I said, this is just it, Like my
grandparents are here in a sense thatthey're eating this raw baked you know,
excuse me, raw KiB a dish. And they fell in love with it
because it's good flavor. And atthe end of the day, I think
that's what good food is all about. Let's get a little bit of cinnamon
in it, so that kind oflike intrigues the kids I'm sure. Yeah,

(14:37):
there's always like some warm notes ina lot of Lebanese cooking. You
know. When we make our rice, we even feature my grandfather's kind of
shish kebab, which we utilize topstertloine, which is a dish that I
make in this house on a weeklybasis. We constantly entertained here in Nashville.
When you entertain, it can beexpensive, and I love the shish
kebab. I love using that topsterloin with the mare made am by cutting

(15:01):
it into kebabs and then cooking ithot and fast on a grill and serving
it in that mid rare temperature.I have people that come over and they
always ask, is this ribi isa tenderline? Or how do you get
it so tender? And you know, sometimes it's those alternative cuts and the
methods around them, or the butchercuts, if you will. And that's
one of the things I did wantto sort of highlight in this book is
it's not just the call brands,but it's the alternatives and the ways that

(15:22):
you approach those throughout different types ofcuisines and cultures, which I think is
pretty fascinating. Ye know. MattLet's talk about the book a little bit,
and also let's talk about butchering.Because it is an art form,
it's primal. It's the basis ofpreparing meat or vegetables or fish or whatever
you may have and then cooking it. What makes it such a personal experience
for somebody, you know, Ithink if there's a running theme of this

(15:43):
book, it is community. Youknow, the butcher is one of those
individuals that you're going to see.I'm in in my world, I see
a couple of times a day,but I have a fascination with going to
my own local purveyors. But atleast once a week or twice a week,
you have an opportunity to foster communitywith an expert. And I often
tell people remember the butcher's own businesstoo. You know, they've got a
responsibility. Their job is to give. And that's kind of the theme that

(16:07):
I saw throughout the book is youknow, if you're in the Bronx and
you've got the old Italian butchers,to the Kroger grocery store, to the
more artisanal style shops where they mayspecialize in dry aging or something along those
lines. I just think it's ultimatelyit's a it's a level of trust.
You know, if you go backin time, and I'm glad David,
you remember the folks that serve yourcommunity. Growing up, people used to

(16:32):
travel and move to certain towns becausethere was a good butcher there. And
even though this book is not onthe nose of barbecue and grilling, I
think it's a it's a deeper ideaof understanding where our ingredients come from.
But more importantly, the people thatare are behind that level of service.
And so I think there's a realgreat opportunity to be able to connect with
someone in your community to foster thatidea of responsibility and service. And you

(16:59):
know, even if you don't havea great butcher shop and you've got just
the folks that work, you know, at the supermarket, you can you
can say, hey, what's goodtoday? Or do you mind doing this
for me? Or I see thiscut over here, but I don't need
that much? Do you mind youknow, maybe fabricating that in this fashion,
and true friendships get to evolve fromthat. I'm a little bit jealous
or I often say I'm spoiled herein Nashville because one of my favorite recipes

(17:23):
that we have in the book isa pork steak sort of an homage to
the South's best butts and barbecue,where you're taking the pork shoulder and you're
cutting it into about an inch anda half thick steaks, so you get
that delicious kind of pulled pork flavorthat we all crave, but you only
have to cook it for a couplehours, as opposed to an entire butt.
And here it my local Kroger atEast Nashville. If you don't go

(17:47):
first thing in the morning, thepork blade steaks are sold out like it's
it's like the hottest thing. SoTommy my butcher, oftentimes if I know
I need him, I shoot hima text or I call them. I
say, hey, man, holdtwelve back for me. And so there's
some utility sort of having an insidehookup at your local butcher store to make
sure you always have those ingredients.You give Tommy a shout out, and

(18:07):
I was very touched by Tommy's story. He's you know, Tommy Kelly of
Kroger. There's a great photo becauseyou both played football when you're younger.
He commutes an hour a day.His commute is an hour to go to
work, but he loves it,and you know, he is supporting a
family, and he provides such apersonal portrait of him. It was very
moving. Matt, Yeah, thankyou. I mean, I think Tommy

(18:30):
is just a big old teddy bear. So when he told me that day
that he had played football growing up, you know, the older we get
in, the more touchdowns we scoredin, the bigger the fish we catch.
But challenged him. I said,you gotta get down into the three
point stance. So we did,and that was a funny moment. But
you know, even though I've interactedwith Tommy for many, many years,

(18:51):
this book also gave me the opportunityto kind of have a taste of my
own medicine, you know, andhave him over and start to create some
of the connections just between he andI, but also his family. And
I love the fact that he stilldrives an hour. There's a store maybe
five minutes from where Tommy lives,but this is his place, it's his
community. He's the most popular guyin the store, and it was an
honor and a responsibility to feature him. And I still see him every day

(19:15):
and it's been a really, reallyfun experience to raise his flag of the
good things that he's doing. AndI think the mantra there too is that
we always love these ideas of shoppinglocally, but there's steven places like a
Kroger. It's not locally owned.But it doesn't take away from the fact
that there's some really, really greatpeople that are there locally that serve their

(19:36):
community. And that's why you takethe time to and I get to give
David a lot of credit for thisas well. As you met you take
the time to get them know thepeople that serve you so many times.
And we lived in New York forhow many years and you pass people by
they serve you every day and youknow their last name, but you get
to know him and it does developa relationship and you know, as you're

(20:00):
talking, I can't help it.They get a fiddler on the roof.
Because in that community, right thebutcher laser Wolf was the wealthy, he
was the powerman. Everybody. Everybodywanted their daughter to marry laser Wolf.
And it was the butcher who hadsome of the greatest respect besides the rabbi,
because he kept people fed and hemade a lot of money. We've

(20:22):
gone full circle because that's the nameof Mike Salomonov's place Philly, aside from
Zahab It's laser Wolff. Yeah,but I mean, you think about it,
and I appreciate you bringing that up, because this book, for me
was one that I knew from acritical standpoint it was going to be.
It's not as commercialized of a subject, right, But I still felt like

(20:45):
if I ask you the question,you know, do you do you know
a butcher when you grew up?I mean, some like David remembers the
butchers, but a lot of peoplesay my aunt was the butcher, or
my uncle was a butcher, oryeah, we had a person down the
street. So I think we're reallystill vastly connected to this trade, and
it's so essential and it permeates everyculture in cuisine, and I thought it

(21:06):
was really interesting to shine a spotlighton it. And my Aha moments,
if you will, was not onlya chance to pay a homage to my
family and to my grandfather and tothe roots. That was one aspect that
kind of pulled me down this threeyear journey. I spent a lot of
time, as you guys do,in Europe, and I think kind of
the secret of especially France is probablyone of the best meals. If it's

(21:30):
been a long day, you wantto pick up a glass of wine and
a baguette and you know, togo food doesn't really exist in France per
se. Outside the major cities.They kind of look at you like you're
crazy, why would you want totake it to go? But the butcher
shop is actually one of the bestplaces to get a meal, as they
say, import day or to go, and they've got a couscousse with a
stud pork and a vegetable. That'sthe dish of the day. And I

(21:52):
started to see this trend in theUnited States where butcher shops Holy Animal Butchering
started to also kind of restaurants orto goes or lunch counters. And then
during the midst of the pandemic,I would go to my local market and
we were all there. You know, you're you're trying to go maybe minimally
responsibly, but when you would showup to the store, you know,

(22:14):
things like boneless, skinless chicken thighsor sold out New York strips or sold
out and tender aligns and pork allthat was sold out, but what was
available was whole chickens or beef ribsor you know, pork spare ribs,
or you know, catfish nuggets,and so I thought, in my mind,
people just don't know how to cookthis stuff. So I had a
field day. I loved that periodbecause I was buying the things that I

(22:37):
knew how to work with, andso those were the three AHAs. It's
a chance for family, a resurgencein what I think is the American trend
of butchering that includes serving foods fromthe shop as well, and then just
being able to shine a spotlight onmaybe some alternative cuts that I think are
incredibly delicious and affordable. You know, I was trying to cook on a
budget. Yeah, yeah, Ithink there's a lot of utility behind that.

(22:59):
And you know, one of thethings I always tell folks regarding their
local butcher, sort of the gatewaydrug for the local butcher shop is I
think the fresh ground meets in thehouse because it may be a little bit
more expensive than your supermarket and rightfullyso, because they're made daily and oftentimes
they're going to incorporate the tails andtrimmings of maybe a really high end dry
age cut. And if you've everjust had a burger and a cast iron

(23:23):
skillet from fresh ground from your localbutcher. It just changes your entire world.
I also think the other portion ofmaybe like the local sausages. So
my grandfather and his brother David,they made kind of Lebanese style sausages,
they made country style sausages. Soa lot of times in the butcher shops,
depending on your geography, if wewent to Milwaukee, we're seeing a

(23:44):
lot of German influence, so freshground meet the sausages, those selections.
Obviously, the Carney Siria is goingto give you specialty cuts, as is
the place in San Francisco's Chinatown,but also dry age. You know,
you go to these butchers and alot of times they're taking cuts safely dry
aging them up to seventy five days. And if you've got a really really
special occasion, doing that at homeis it's not impossible, but it's hard.

(24:07):
And that's another area where the butcher'sgot a lot of expertise that they
bring to the table, you know, and they're also very willing to share
with you their story and their methodas to how to cook it, because
a lot of times you may getsomething that you're not familiar with and so
you need to ask your butcher andyour supplier what would you do with this?
And they're always happy to tell youthe story of how they do it.
Yeah. I mean when I didthe book South's Best Butts on Barbecue,

(24:30):
and I would ask for dry rubsand sauces and secrets and the barbecue
world that's a little bit taboo,But you're exactly right, David. In
the butchering world, it's what's expectedof them. I mean, they can
all write cookbooks and so, likeI said in the introduction of the book,
that the job of the butchers togive give me a quarter pound of
this, can you special order this? Can you cut it this way?
And then my favorite line is,well how do you cook it? The

(24:52):
butcher's got a great example. Butagain I go back to that idea.
The butcher's in business and they wantto sell you a good cut. They
want to give you advice because theywant to earn your trust, and they
want you to be a repeat customer. And I think that's kind of the
fostering of community that we touched onearlier. You interviewed a lot of butcher's,
As you said, you went tothe South of France, you went
to San Francisco, Chinatown, youwent north South. Was there a common

(25:18):
thread to these individuals who it is? Sometimes they're born into the business and
sometimes it's a calling. And alsois there a physical commonality because I bet
they have amazing hands and shoulders.Yeah, Nickton scarred and everything else.
Yeah, you mentioned that too.Yeah. I mean, I think that
there's probably almost a Paradeo's law thatalmost kind of eighty percent are coming into

(25:44):
the trade either because of familial tiesor generational ties. You know. For
me, my uncle he became abanker and his father was a butcher,
and then he became a banker.I'm not sure what my title of my
job is these days when I'm nota butcher, but we did focus on
generational stories, and I think that'sone of the ways that you see it.

(26:04):
But I'll go to the folks atPiece of Meat Butcher in New Orleans,
and they worked for Donald Link atCoachamp and they decided to get into
the harder job and that's been ajourney for them and ultimately, for less
pay and harder work, they foundfulfillment. And I think that's what a
lot of folks seek, not justin the culinary world, but in all

(26:26):
aspects of life. And I thinkthis idea of butchering, of taking something
and being responsible and being able toprovide service to others rings a lot of
joy. And it's one of theoldest trades of civilization. It's a very
well respected trade. I just feltlike it was time to maybe shine the
light back on it onto the actualpeople themselves that are serving on a daily

(26:49):
basis. Was there a particular instanceor story that you found that made you
want to get started on this book, Matt, Yeah, I mean I
gave you, you know, someof the AHAs as to the reason behind
the wise of what we wanted todo. I think the first journey that
we made was to Cambridge City,Indiana to visit the m family. And

(27:10):
I often get asked, you know, how do you how do you find
these people? How do you trackthem down? And it's a mix.
Some are our personal recommendations, maybesome colleagues in the industry, and others
are just places that American Airlines hascanceled my flights and I've discovered you know
this person. But when we wenton a journey, it was kind of
twofold for me. So, Andreaparents has shot my last three books,

(27:34):
and she's an incredible photographer here inNashville. And I'm so lucky to have
her as kind of a sister onthe road, to be able to travel
and and spend you know, ayear together producing this art and traveling in
these beautiful places and eating this incrediblefood. And she had shared with me
just before we were about to leavefor that trip, as we were going
to be taking my little nineteen seventysix Piper Cherokee on a on a couple

(27:56):
hour flight, she said, Hey, I want to you know something.
I'm pregnant. She and her husband, Christian had been married for several years,
and it was just such an incredibleblessing that we were going to start
this journey and be able to experiencethis season of life with her. Ultimately,
we did a few trips, wetraveled to Indiana, we met with
the rim family. We had justan incredible experience a friend of mine who's

(28:17):
a filmmaker here in Nashville. Itwas his uncle, And it's a generational
story, it's the Midwest story,it's the processing facility, it's everything that
you wanted. And I remember lookingat her in the front yard as we're
smoking hogshead tacos and you know,we're having sweetbreads and all these different foods,
and we had the family around andI looked at her and I was
like, Hey, this one's thisis the most special one we're doing.

(28:37):
I could just tell on that firstvisit that we were on to the right
hunt. And we had a lotof legs behind us, but we had
a journey. I made her stopmaybe after the third trip, when she
was on hands and knees in Chinatown, about seven months pregnant. So this
is our last trip. I said, you're going to have your baby.
Then we'll pick it up in fiveor six months. And she had her
baby boy, baby Bear, andafter he was born, you know,

(29:00):
we really wanted to respect that timeand process for her. And then baby
Bear and her husband, Christian,and Andrea came back on the room with
me and we were the big broodof folks writing a butchering cookbook, and
it was just a special season.I think that I feel like is in
the writing. I know, it'sin the photography and the joy, even
though there was a lot of logisticsthat came with it. Matches Andrea did

(29:22):
the photography on your website, mettmoredot com, because it's quite fabulous.
She does a lot of it.Most of what Andrea does in the books
would be the chapters related to thepit Masters, to the grill Masters,
and ultimately the butchers. I've alsoworked with Helen Dujardin and Charleston, South
Carolina. She was working with SouthernLiving at the time that we shot Southern

(29:45):
Gentleman's Kitchen. She did not shootthe studio photography for South's Best Butts,
But in transition of timing being acquiredand me working with a different publisher,
I rehired Helen and her team todo Serial Griller in studio as well as
Busher on the Block. So there'ssort of a combination. But most of
the lifestyle and on scene it's reallynot overstyled. We have no idea what

(30:08):
we're going to shoot until we getthere. We don't bring props and we
just shoot it as is, andI think there's a lot of It's very
authentic to me, is what we'retrying to portray in those shoots. Now
it looks right. Do you fly, Yeah, you have your pilot,
your own plane. Obviously you didn'tgo to France in it. But do
you normally pilot, Like what percentageof your travel you're flying yourself versus going

(30:29):
commercial? Yeah, I mean it'sit's more lawnmower than it is a corporate
jet. There's a little bit ofromance to it as well. It smells
like it smells like av gas andit smells like barbecue. In fact,
when we flew back from Cambridge City, Indiana, they had sent us these
Venison jerky sticks, so we hadsome really good in flight entertainment and snacks
on the way home. But I'llfly myself predominantly within about three hundred to

(30:55):
four hundred nautical miles of Nashville,so you know, Indianapolis, arc and
Saw Missouri down to New Orleans.But ultimately flying is a big responsibility too.
So yeah, good weather. Sometimesit can be the most convenient thing
in the world, and you feellike you're time traveling. And then sometimes
you're hanging out in a dumpy motelwaiting for a storm or a front to
clear a couple of days and youfeel like a fool. So oh,

(31:19):
man, I can only mentioned SoI want to point out a lot of
people are just intimidated by butchering,which is why there were so many old
chickens left at the supermarket. Mostlikely you helped demystify it at the beginning
of the butcher on the Block.Take us through that, and what are
some if somebody wants to give ita hand, because it really is a
more economical way to maximize every partof the animal. What are some essential

(31:45):
tools that people should have at home. You know, I mentioned I didn't
want to write a book on theart of butchering and the technique so much
it's been covered, you know,sat for thousands of years. And truthfully,
another common theme that I saw isthat most people learn trial and doing
by apprenticeship. It's not something youread a book for. You know,

(32:07):
You've got to get in there andpractice that art. That being said,
we did have the opportunity to workwith some incredible guys here James pie Skirt
at Port Road Butcher and they've basicallykind of integrated vertically integrated from farms in
Tennessee, Kentucky, Pennsylvania where they'rethey're raising what they want. They want
you to eat less meat, butthey want you to eat better meat.

(32:28):
All the way down to the butcher'sshop, so for him to be able
to spend a day and just showcasesome basic at home ideas like breaking down
a whole chicken. It's more affordable, I think it tastes better and like
you said, you get to useevery part. You know that the beef
tenderloin is always something that trumps peoplearound the holidays, kind of how to
french a rack of pork coin wasalways an interesting item, and then how

(32:52):
to filet a fish. Those werejust the basic tenants. And you know,
I asked him that question, whatwere the tools you need? And
I'm a minimalist, like like James, you know, just a stiff and
a semi flex boning knife is prettymuch all he uses. Now he's got
the knowledge of a butcher that he'snot having to saw through pieces because he
knows the natural joints and bones increases. So I often tell people if you've

(33:15):
got a stiff and semi flex boningknife. I think some kitchen sheers are
great, especially if you're doing wholechickens you want to cut out the backbones
around the holidays, and maybe evena cleaver for something heavier. But we
talk more about the environment and howto set that up for at home,
making sure you're keeping things clean andtrial by doing. And you mentioned something
really important that I want to touchon when you said that some folks are

(33:37):
intimidated. Maybe not by the butcheringprocess, but I've even had some folks
say I'm intimidated by my butcher.I said, well, your easy starting
point is to grab a whole chicken. My grandfather would always tell you,
never buy one over three and ahalf pounds and take it up to the
counter and ask if the butcher willbreak it into quarters, eights, whatever
you're looking for, and they'll doit for you. And so that might

(33:58):
be the first way that you sparkthat that first conversation. Hey, you
know, if you don't mind,I've got a busy night tonight, but
I heard I shouldn't pick up awhole chicken. It's more affordable, it
taste better. Do you mind breakingthis down for me for a roast chicken
or something along those lines. They'lldo it for you, and then the
next time you go back, you'vebroken that barrier. And you can try
that at home, but we dogive you the instructions, and I think

(34:19):
that's a meaningful setup for the book. Or you can ask your butcher.
I find the whole idea of filetinga fish intimidating it. I can't begin
to tell you when when I goout to eat at restaurants, so I
always ask for the whole fish tobe filet. But if I one pinbone,
I cringe, like ruins the fishfor me. So i'm I would
be the person that would get toknow the fishmonger or the butcher and say,

(34:43):
look, I'd love it if youdid this for me. I mean,
is the customary would you do thatyou tip them? Not? To
my knowledge, quite honestly, Ithink it's it's it's the service that they
provide and they're willing to Wow,that's amazing. Everybody else wants a tip.
I asked that just because obviously I'mall about man or an etiquette and
seems like everybody in the world wantsa tip when they hand you a cup
of coffee. So that shocks me. I mean, I think it's now

(35:06):
based on the point of sale.You know, they flip that thing around
and sometimes it has it on there. But in all my time of travels,
I've never seen a butcher shop havea tip functionality. I think you
know if I had to call ina favor, like I called the week
before and I was sourcing, maybe, like one of my favorites is just
a good duck breast that you cookedvery slowly to render the fat. That's

(35:29):
sometimes hard to find. It's aspecialty cut. And I may call the
guys at Porter Road and I canget them. You know, they'll sometimes
do cool things for me, like, oh, we got him in.
Maybe we'll smoke them for you orwhatever. You know, it's that's something
like around the holidays. I thinkthat's a useful time. But I think
if you're in a supermarket or abutcher shop and you say, hey,
listen, I want a whole chicken, I don't have time to do it,

(35:49):
or I don't have the knowledge todo it. Would you mind breaking
this down? That's that's part ofthe service, that's part of the expertise.
I think I agree with you onthat, Matt. Matt, one
of my favorite chapters in the bookis not about a meat butcher, but
about a guy who decided to getinto the fish business after not having a
familiar or generational tie to it.As you stated earlier, tell us about
Jared our Bag because it's a fascinatingstory, and he's up in Boston.

(36:12):
I really kind of came on toknowledge of Jared as I was seeking to
encapsulate this idea of fish and seafoodas well, and I kept seeing his
name, primarily based on the factthat they were leveraging technology to be able
to kind of compete against the legacyworld of the fish harvesting business. And

(36:32):
I thought that was really really intriguing, and so I had reached out to
him via email, and you know, a week or so went by and
I got a phone call one day, and right when I picked up the
phone, I saw a Boston areacode, and from the accent, I
knew I was on the sething andhe was just so passionate and telling me
all the things that you've got tocome. I'd love to do it.
I'd love it. And I said, hey, stop right there, don't

(36:52):
tell me too much of the story. I want to get there and have
boots on the ground and be ableto visit, and you know, Boston's
a really special place. We visitedBoston. That was our first trip actually,
when Andrea was a mom and wehad the team with us. It
was in the middle of the winter, super cold, and just seeing his
passion around that harbor and the operationthat he's built. I mean, he

(37:15):
really went from being a market maker, which is essentially trying to sell fish
that comes in, to kind ofcreating his own supply and demand. And
if you think about it, inthe old days, they would send these
huge vessels out and they would justkind of drag and catch, and that
vessel might be out for a weekand then they come back to the dock
and then they're selling fish that couldbe technically two weeks old that's been living

(37:37):
in alive well, and Jared didn'thave the capital for a large vessel.
So what he started doing is workingwith the local fishermen have smaller boats,
and on a daily basis they werecoming in and he was making markets for
skate and porgy and all these otherdifferent cuts. And so he would go
to places like Harvard University and say, why are you putting cod on your

(37:58):
menu in October when it's August,Like, how do you know we're going
to have cod then? And howdo you know the quality of it?
So instead he started to create aprogram to support the local fisherman based on
the catch that they were receiving tocreate new markets. Tag it with QR
code so that I could sit thereat his store in the market and be
able to see. Okay, thiswas caught on ABC Vessel and Maine on

(38:20):
this date, and this is theowner of the boat. And I think
there was just something really passionate aboutit, of his operation, his people,
just how busy is he still hustles. It's I think, kind of
a great American story. And Ilove the fact that in Butcher on the
Block, I think it's important underscoredor listen, it's not only just about
meat and pork and chicken. Youhave this great story about fish and some

(38:44):
wonderful recipes, the plank salmon inparticular. And you also touch on the
vegetable butcher, Kara Mangini. She'sknown as the vegetable butcher. Another interesting
back story there tell us about herbecause and as I read this section,
I thought, you know, itis still about butchering vegetables, because there's
a way to cut these potatoes andBrussels sprouts, et cetera, a certain

(39:07):
way. It is a form ofbutchering. Yeah, I think one of
the things I love about the mediumof writing books, is that you get
an opportunity to have something that standsthe test of time. Once you turn
in the manuscript, you don't edit. It's not TikTok, it's not Instagram,
it's not a blog. And myjob and my responsibility as an author
for the topics that I'm covering isto go out and cast a very wide

(39:29):
net and be open to alternative ideasand vegetable butchering. Who am I to
say that that's not a real thing. I mean, it sounds tongue in
cheek, but when you get downto the brass tacks, Kara was the
first quote unquote vegetable butcher at NewYork's Italy, and there were probable ways
to break down items for a stirfry, or a cabbage head for a

(39:50):
cabbage steak, or romanesquo and allthese different ideas, and so yes,
there's some marketing utility, but ultimatelyI really think what she's doing is absolut
incredible, and especially even for Karain her story, you know she's a
great cookbook author. Restaurant tour Icaught up with her. She comes from
a family of Italian butchers, andwhen we crossed paths. She had moved

(40:13):
from Columbus, Ohio, where shehad built you know, her a lot
of her brand, and she hadmoved back to San Francisco to a family
home in cal Hollow. And youknow, we met her in the midst
of the pandemic and we still madeit happen. And her mission is not
vegan or vegetarian. It's more justabout making vegetables the center of the plate.
And I have to tell you,I love my mama. She makes

(40:34):
the best carrot cake in the world. But care has carrot cake and all
the butchering of the carrots and thevegetables that go into that. It's up
there for one of the best carrotcakes I've ever had. You know what
else is interesting, mcarat Hers isa career change. She worked at and
worked her way up the corporate laddera Bumble and Bumble, which is like
a hair hair products company. Andthen she decided, actually a colleague of

(40:57):
hers and her talking she Willless sheWill, wanted to do something else.
She enrolled the Natural Gourmet Institute NewYork and there you go. But it
was a very cool story that Ididn't know about her. We have her
book we actually should have her ownthe show. It was really great,
and I love these recipes. Iam a veggie head, and the ones
that really got me excited were thePolish cucumber salad, the catch all salad,

(41:19):
which is what I call the kitchensink salad, where you'd put everything
that's in the refrigerator into a saladand it could be anything left. And
those Romanesque steaks, which could becauliflower steaks, just really singing to me.
Yeah. I mean, the waythat the last three books have kind
of worked is we go out andwe try to get about sixty to sixty
five recipes from the road and ourtravels, and as I mentioned, I

(41:42):
don't really know what I'm going toget until I get there. That's not
on purpose. I don't study peopletoo much. I kind of wanted just
to be a here and now vignette. So it's a little risky, but
it's worked in our favor for thelast three books. But the latter half
part three, if you will,so, First it's kind of a butchering
primer that we with the folks fromPorter Road. Then it's the stories of
the butchers, and each butcher gets, you know, beautiful photography of our

(42:06):
time spent, and four or fiverecipes per place, and then I rounded
out with another seventy five or sorecipes from my own kitchen and things that
I'm cooking on a nightly basis.So the catchall salad is exactly like you
say, it's a kitchen sink salad. Of course, in my family,
my kids love feta cheese and theylove olive, so that always has to
make its way. And as longas I put that into whatever I've got

(42:27):
rolling around in those vegetable drawers,my kids are gonna eat it. And
that one came about too because Iwas grilling one day and I had some
corn and peppers and threw it onthe grill, and I was just a
delicious recipe. The Princess rice,you know I mentioned earlier, ground meat
kind of being the gateway drug ofthe grocery store, the butcher shop,
and a lot of times we'll comehome from soccer practice and you want to
put dinner on the table. SoI was coming up with different alternatives,

(42:49):
and the Princess Rice is actually sortof that homage to Lebanese cooking. Grape
leaves are a classic Lebanese dish whereyou take meat and rice and spices and
garlic and you roll them into theleaves and then you bring them to a
boil and you cook them and theyjust take forever to individually roll all that
product. So my kids love thatflavor. But one night I just deconstructed

(43:09):
it and made it and put someBosmani rice and I called it Princess Rice.
This is an effort to sell them, and they fell in love with
it, and so it made thecookbook. And that's just something that I'm
doing on a regular basis and testingand thinking about and being able to have
the stories behind it. And that'sone of the reasons I've been able to
include that in the work. Ilove a story. But how many children

(43:29):
do you have now, Matt?I have two lovely girls, Vivian who
is eight years old and Everley who'ssix years old, and despite me telling
them to be quiet, you mighteven hear them giggling in the background.
I have to say. One ofthe big surprises in this book was the
Alaskan ice cream. I mean,because this is a book the Butcher on
the Block, right, and youhave cocktails in here. You have a
great how to on how to makebone broth, which is always wonderful to

(43:52):
do and it's always better homemade.I but you have other desserts. There's
maple bacon cookas, Okay, thatwould make sense, but Alaskan ice cream
is nothing like you would expect.In that chapter, it's called the Alternative
Cuts, and so we just talkabout some some odds and ends you mentioned,
even yours you're putting making an appearance, or how to really perfectly make

(44:14):
bacon and stocks and all that goodstuff. Beef talo, I think,
is like one of those things thatyou'll see a lot, especially on social
media. You know. The beefhammer is the first picture that we have
in the book, which is thebeef shank that's been frenched to look like
Thor's hammer. That's something I foundin my travels to Europe. The Germans
love barbecue and they call it thebeef emmo, you know, and so

(44:35):
like I was, like, that'scool. Nobody's doing that in America.
And then if you look online,a lot of people are starting to cook
with beef talo again. And sothat's just the pure fat. It's used
a lot in place of butter andoils. It's super healthy for you,
and I think diets like Paleo havemade it more popular. And so Alaskan
ice scream or aqutak is it's called, is what the Alaskans would do.

(44:55):
They would use talo, maybe notalways beef, and with a little bit
of sugar and maybe if they hadsome fresh fruit, take that hot tallow
and then enough fine snow like ice. Basically pour the hot tallo into the
cold ice until basically the tallow kindof emulsifies and becomes thickened like an ice
cream, and then with some sugarand fruit, taste pretty darn good.

(45:15):
And it's a Paleo friendly dessert usingthe alternative cuts. I have to say,
I would never have thought of that, and everyone, you know,
I interviewed a woman, a chefactually from Philadelphia that makes skincare products from
beef tallow and soap, which madesense, But this one was a surprise,
and it's actually a wise way touse tallow. Very interesting. You

(45:38):
know. I have to say,one thing I have thought about ever since
I saw the first picture when whenI opened the book is the beef hammer.
So let's talk about that a littlebit because it has me fascinated.
Yeah, So that the translation isthe hes or the hex or in German.
My French is my second language,German is not. But yeah,
so it's the beef shank, andwe often know it massa guco, right,

(46:00):
And so oftentimes braising and low andslow temperatures make the most of these
cuts that are primed, I thinkfor barbecue. And so it's something I
did notice from my friends in Germanyand just seeing the kind of that barbecue
world, and it wasn't something Iwas seeing happening a whole lot in the
US. We see a lot ofbrisket, We see a lot of shoulder
clod, you know, we seethe pit beef in that kind of world.

(46:23):
And so I thought, man,this is really kind of genius that
you can take this cut. Notonly is it cool for a photograph,
but by smoking it low and slowand then finishing it in a braise,
we get kind of a brisket likebarbecue like alternative to cook up for the
next cookout. And we serve itwith some some spongy white bread and raw
Vydelia onions and pickles, kind oflike a pulled beef sandwich, and it's

(46:46):
just absolutely delicious. But I alsothought it was a really stunning photograph as
well. It did make a greatphotograph. I have to say that I'm
the only one in this house thatactually eats red meat, so it would
probably be a stretch for me tomake that at home, but I will
salivate over the Although I was sayingto David today because we were just with
friends in North Carolina and they weretalking about a French restaurant where it's only

(47:07):
meat. I said to David,you know, I'm rethinking certain things.
Sometimes you gotta go and where thelocal food is really a great piece of
meat, Like Tagliana, got tojust go with the flow because you're missing
out. And one of the thingsthat in the book is bone marrow,
the beef marrow that you the roastedand it's so good for you. And

(47:28):
my mouth started watering at just that. So I have to say I'm rethinking
the whole meat within again, lessmeet but better quality, and where it's
local it makes sense. I'm notgoing to go to Argentina and not eat
the meat, right, So youknow, I have flexibility all but I
think it's important as we start towrap up the butcher on the Block,
Everyday recipe stories and inspirations from yourlocal butcher and Beyond is a book about

(47:52):
people first and foremost and the peoplewho are led to this profession. And
you do some great storytelling like youalways do, Matt, which we appreciate.
But it's also a book for people. Even if you are not a
meat eater, you will be enlightenedby this book. And there is something
for you in this book. BecauseI found a lot and so great gift

(48:15):
makes me. I'm actually hungry justtalking right now. What do you have
the on your block? Matt?Along with promoting the book, what else
are you working on? I justwrapped a second season of a show called
Taste of Tennessee that shot first seasonlast year. It's on LG's new network,
and it was a fantastic opportunity hereto shoot in and Nashville. We

(48:37):
did three episodes to start, andwe had some of the friends from the
Tennessee Titans. We had Pat Martinand Martin's Barbecue, the Guy's Slim and
Huskies and party Foul for Hot Chicken. And it was picked up for a
second season. And we go beyond. We go to Memphis and we explore
a place called plant Based Heat,which is vegan barbecue and vegan food in

(48:57):
the heart of Memphis. We hadto urt live in Maryville, Tennessee.
We go to Juniper Farm here inNashville Otaku Ramen. So there's five episodes
in the new season, and Ithink our goal is to continue to expand
that to a show not just aboutTennessee but beyond. So you know,
hosting projects is always a big part. I'll dive back into my other world.
We have a fragrance business in thesouth of France, and I'm excited

(49:21):
to get back over there and beworking in that business. Again. Food
and fragrance have so many similarities.So those are the current items at play
as we spread the gospel, thebutchering gospel. As I say on this
new book, you are really aman of many talents. Man. Yeah,
I'd like to learn more about thatfragrance business. I'm big on of
a nose for fragrance. We appreciateyou and all you're doing, and of

(49:43):
course spotlighting Tennessee, which we arenow back in residence, and hopefully you'll
come to chat Nooga sometime in themeantime. We encourage our listeners to check
out you and your website. MattMoore dot com and this book Butcher on
the Block, and hopefully we willWe'll be connecting with you in person over
a good meal sometime soon. Ilove that I've got an open door policy

(50:06):
here in East Nashville, so youguys come see us. You got it.
Thank you so much, and thankyou to Matt and to our listeners.
We hope you've enjoyed another edition ofa Connected Table Live. As always,
stay insatiably curious. Thank you,