March 4, 2025 • 8 mins
Labour Leader Chris Hipkins joined John MacDonald this morning to dig into the latest.
They discussed the latest from Ukraine and the potential for Trump to introduce agricultural tariffs in the wake of his over 20% tariffs on key trade partners.
Is talking to an overseas GP on the phone really a good solution to our lacking services?
And what on earth has gone wrong with the school lunch system? Is a marmite sandwich really sufficient?
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Canterbury Mornings podcast with John McDonald
from News Talk ZB.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
It's a regular fortnightly catch up with labor and opposition
leader Chris Hipkins with us Now morning.
Speaker 3 (00:18):
Chris, good morning.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Right, we'll get on school lunches shortly, but first of
all you might be where well. I heard Nathan Guy,
who these days is the head of the Meat Industry Association,
saying that he reckons we will be able to ride
the wave of uncertain uncertainty when it comes to tariffs
from Donald Trump. But he said that, you know, Trump
has said was earliers next month. These things are going
(00:41):
to happen. Our concerned, are you for New Zealand exporters?
Speaker 3 (00:46):
Yeah, I mean an international trade war sort of based
around tariff can be good for any small export in
country like New Zealand. It still remains to be seen
exactly how we'll be affected by that. So I love
Nathan Guy's optimism. That's encouraging, But I still think our
exporters are understandably feeling a bit nervous at the moment.
(01:06):
There are other markets for them to pursue. So we've
got some promising science, you know, our free trade agreements
with the EU and the UK, for example, open up
alternative markets for our exporters if they find themselves facing
tariffs from the US. Hearing among the US has been
one of our fastest growing markets. So yeah, I think
we're watching this space with a degree of nervous energy.
(01:29):
What does that mean, Well, I mean it's too soon
to tell.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
All right. On the other Trump issue, with Zelenski announcing
that he's coming back to the table, has he caved in?
Speaker 3 (01:46):
I wouldn't say he's caved in. I think he's desperately
trying to do the right thing for his country. You know,
President Salinsky has led the people of Ukraine exceptionally well
over three very very difficult years. I think he's trying
to favor his country and I think he's doing everything
that he possibly can to do that. I think this
treatment was unfair last week, but I think he's just
(02:11):
trying to do the right thing here.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
The way it's played out, what do you think it
will mean in terms of the contribution New Zealand might
have to make in Ukraine.
Speaker 3 (02:21):
I think we should keep our minds open on this.
We've got New Zealand troops in the UK at the moment,
who are training Ukrainian forces and I think that we
should continue to do that in terms of achieving our
lasting peace there, which this does seem like a long
way off at the moment. I think we should again
keep an open mind as to what role New Zealand
(02:42):
might play.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
All right, let's look at a couple of domestic issues.
What was Ashaviril getting it writing to Simeon Brown, Health
Minister saying she wants to take the politics out of health.
Bit of a pipe tree, isn't it?
Speaker 3 (02:54):
I mean, I think in terms of the appointment of
a new board for Health New Zealand, I think it
would be good if we could get some agreement on
that on a more bipartisan basis. I don't think that
the country is going to be well served by having
you know, boards all just sacked every time there's a
change of government and a complete turnover of people. I
think people need a bit more stability than that. This
(03:15):
government's propensity just to keep sacking people right, left and
center isn't actually moving the country forward in the way
that I think New Zealand is at hopes.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
What do you how would you feel having a consultation
with a doctor over your phone a tallyhealth appointment, particularly
a doctor in another country, which is what the government's announced.
Speaker 3 (03:35):
I'll open to more use of tallyhealth and in some
circumstances it can actually be better for the patient. So,
for example, I'll give you a practical example. You know,
if you've got kids at home and they've got a
running nose or whatever, and they're in bed and they're asleep,
you have to drag them out of bed to take
them down to the GP when actually speaking to them
over the phone means you can often explain what the
(03:55):
issue is and that the doctor can give you advice
over the phone and you don't have to wake the
get up and drag them down to the hospital to
sit in the waiting room with other six people you
know they can. But at the other end of the spectrum,
there are some things that you do want to be
sitting in a doctor's clinic to get advice in person,
and so it's going to be a combination of both
of those things.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
Having been a child my self once, I do know
that sometimes the drive to the after hours can be
enough to make you feel a lot better and you
don't need to go set the.
Speaker 3 (04:23):
Doctor well, yeah, that's true as well.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
Let's do about school lunches. What were you getting at yesterday?
And we've been talking about a full ball this morning
on the show We'll be getting at yesterday when you
made comments along the lines of you you think the
Prime Minister has got it in for the program.
Speaker 3 (04:41):
The National Party we're never particularly supportive of the free
school lunches program. Actually, someone dusted off for me today,
Jim Bolder saying exactly the same thing about marm Mike
sandwhich is thirty or forty years ago. You know, I
think they've always taken this view that feeding hungry kids
isn't something that government should do. I disagree. You know,
we've got kids living in poverty in New Zealand, and
(05:03):
the majority of those kids living below the poverty line
in New Zealand actually have parents who go to work
every day. So this isn't just an issue of people
who are on in the welfare system. This is you know,
low income New Zealanders who are working hard, trying to
do the best thing for their families and for their kids,
(05:24):
and they're really struggling to make ends meet, and Free
Lunch's program is making an enormous difference for those kids
and for those families.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
There's been no shortage of people coming through this morning
saying that you know, you need to look at the
parents because you know, there's no way in this country
people get either a benefit or a salary or a wage,
and people seem to think that there is no way
that someone can not feed their kids three meals a day.
What's your response to that.
Speaker 3 (05:52):
Well, as I said, the majority of Kiwi kids living
below the poverty line in New Zealand have working parents.
So it's not that these parents aren't working hard, and
it's not that the parents aren't trying. But you've got
a government now saying this is all the parents fault,
when that's the very same government have basically increased the
minimum wage by less than the rate of inflation twice
(06:13):
two years in a row. So that means that for
those on the minimum wage, they're actually earning less in
real terms now than they were two years ago. So
things are getting tougher for them, not better.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
You say, are you saying, and I think you asked something.
You're saying that the government has created the problem that's
made the school lunches program so needed and problematic.
Speaker 3 (06:35):
And I wouldn't say that they've created it. I don't
think that's that's fair. You know, you can't blame them
for everything, much as I might sometimes appear that way
as the leader of the opposition. You know, trial poverty
in New Zealand has been a long standing challenge. It's
built up over decades, but they've made it worse. That's
absolutely correct, all.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
Right, And what happens from here on? Do you think
there should be an apology from the Prime Minister for
the Marmite comment.
Speaker 3 (07:00):
I'm more interested in them fixing the problem, to be frank,
you know, I think we had a free healthy school
lunches program was working. It was delivering fresh food for
kids every day. It was creating local employment. Yes, it
was a bit more expensive than the cut price option
that they've gone with, but actually kids properly got fed.
Who was creating local jobs. In many cases some of
(07:21):
those people who were making the lunches. Now with government's
paying them in a different way. We're paying them through
an unemployment benefit, when previously they're being paid to make
lunches for kids. So I'm not sure that it's actually
saved us that much money. I think they should go
back to that program because it was working, and frankually,
I think that you know, more than anything else, just
get a solution here.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
Do you think though, that the providing meals for every
child is necessary?
Speaker 3 (07:48):
I think in a school it's they're not being provided
to every child, every child within our school. Now, within
a school, you might have a group of kids whose
parents could do that, but you create different issues around
stigma around the school lunches program and so on if
you start targeting it at an individual child level, and
(08:09):
it actually starts to create issues within the school. So
we looked at that closely when we set up the program,
and we actually worked out as the best way to
do it was to make sure that we're targeting the
schools with the highest concentrations of kids who need it,
and if a few other kids get that extra advantage,
then that's you know, we'll get get the free lunches
as well. That's all well and good because actually it
means that you're genuinely creating a level playing field for
(08:31):
the kids at that school.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
All right, thanks for time, Chris Hapkins talk again in
a Fortnite Leader of the Labor Party and the Opposition.
Speaker 1 (08:39):
For more from Catebory Mornings with John McDonald. Listen live
to news talks It'd Be christ Church from nine am weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
You're listening to the Canterbury Mornings podcast with John McDonald
from News Talk ZB.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
It's a regular fortnightly catch up with labor and opposition
leader Chris Hipkins with us Now morning.
Speaker 3 (00:18):
Chris, good morning.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Right, we'll get on school lunches shortly, but first of
all you might be where well. I heard Nathan Guy,
who these days is the head of the Meat Industry Association,
saying that he reckons we will be able to ride
the wave of uncertain uncertainty when it comes to tariffs
from Donald Trump. But he said that, you know, Trump
has said was earliers next month. These things are going
(00:41):
to happen. Our concerned, are you for New Zealand exporters?
Speaker 3 (00:46):
Yeah, I mean an international trade war sort of based
around tariff can be good for any small export in
country like New Zealand. It still remains to be seen
exactly how we'll be affected by that. So I love
Nathan Guy's optimism. That's encouraging, But I still think our
exporters are understandably feeling a bit nervous at the moment.
(01:06):
There are other markets for them to pursue. So we've
got some promising science, you know, our free trade agreements
with the EU and the UK, for example, open up
alternative markets for our exporters if they find themselves facing
tariffs from the US. Hearing among the US has been
one of our fastest growing markets. So yeah, I think
we're watching this space with a degree of nervous energy.
(01:29):
What does that mean, Well, I mean it's too soon
to tell.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
All right. On the other Trump issue, with Zelenski announcing
that he's coming back to the table, has he caved in?
Speaker 3 (01:46):
I wouldn't say he's caved in. I think he's desperately
trying to do the right thing for his country. You know,
President Salinsky has led the people of Ukraine exceptionally well
over three very very difficult years. I think he's trying
to favor his country and I think he's doing everything
that he possibly can to do that. I think this
treatment was unfair last week, but I think he's just
(02:11):
trying to do the right thing here.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
The way it's played out, what do you think it
will mean in terms of the contribution New Zealand might
have to make in Ukraine.
Speaker 3 (02:21):
I think we should keep our minds open on this.
We've got New Zealand troops in the UK at the moment,
who are training Ukrainian forces and I think that we
should continue to do that in terms of achieving our
lasting peace there, which this does seem like a long
way off at the moment. I think we should again
keep an open mind as to what role New Zealand
(02:42):
might play.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
All right, let's look at a couple of domestic issues.
What was Ashaviril getting it writing to Simeon Brown, Health
Minister saying she wants to take the politics out of health.
Bit of a pipe tree, isn't it?
Speaker 3 (02:54):
I mean, I think in terms of the appointment of
a new board for Health New Zealand, I think it
would be good if we could get some agreement on
that on a more bipartisan basis. I don't think that
the country is going to be well served by having
you know, boards all just sacked every time there's a
change of government and a complete turnover of people. I
think people need a bit more stability than that. This
(03:15):
government's propensity just to keep sacking people right, left and
center isn't actually moving the country forward in the way
that I think New Zealand is at hopes.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
What do you how would you feel having a consultation
with a doctor over your phone a tallyhealth appointment, particularly
a doctor in another country, which is what the government's announced.
Speaker 3 (03:35):
I'll open to more use of tallyhealth and in some
circumstances it can actually be better for the patient. So,
for example, I'll give you a practical example. You know,
if you've got kids at home and they've got a
running nose or whatever, and they're in bed and they're asleep,
you have to drag them out of bed to take
them down to the GP when actually speaking to them
over the phone means you can often explain what the
(03:55):
issue is and that the doctor can give you advice
over the phone and you don't have to wake the
get up and drag them down to the hospital to
sit in the waiting room with other six people you
know they can. But at the other end of the spectrum,
there are some things that you do want to be
sitting in a doctor's clinic to get advice in person,
and so it's going to be a combination of both
of those things.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
Having been a child my self once, I do know
that sometimes the drive to the after hours can be
enough to make you feel a lot better and you
don't need to go set the.
Speaker 3 (04:23):
Doctor well, yeah, that's true as well.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
Let's do about school lunches. What were you getting at yesterday?
And we've been talking about a full ball this morning
on the show We'll be getting at yesterday when you
made comments along the lines of you you think the
Prime Minister has got it in for the program.
Speaker 3 (04:41):
The National Party we're never particularly supportive of the free
school lunches program. Actually, someone dusted off for me today,
Jim Bolder saying exactly the same thing about marm Mike
sandwhich is thirty or forty years ago. You know, I
think they've always taken this view that feeding hungry kids
isn't something that government should do. I disagree. You know,
we've got kids living in poverty in New Zealand, and
(05:03):
the majority of those kids living below the poverty line
in New Zealand actually have parents who go to work
every day. So this isn't just an issue of people
who are on in the welfare system. This is you know,
low income New Zealanders who are working hard, trying to
do the best thing for their families and for their kids,
(05:24):
and they're really struggling to make ends meet, and Free
Lunch's program is making an enormous difference for those kids
and for those families.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
There's been no shortage of people coming through this morning
saying that you know, you need to look at the
parents because you know, there's no way in this country
people get either a benefit or a salary or a wage,
and people seem to think that there is no way
that someone can not feed their kids three meals a day.
What's your response to that.
Speaker 3 (05:52):
Well, as I said, the majority of Kiwi kids living
below the poverty line in New Zealand have working parents.
So it's not that these parents aren't working hard, and
it's not that the parents aren't trying. But you've got
a government now saying this is all the parents fault,
when that's the very same government have basically increased the
minimum wage by less than the rate of inflation twice
(06:13):
two years in a row. So that means that for
those on the minimum wage, they're actually earning less in
real terms now than they were two years ago. So
things are getting tougher for them, not better.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
You say, are you saying, and I think you asked something.
You're saying that the government has created the problem that's
made the school lunches program so needed and problematic.
Speaker 3 (06:35):
And I wouldn't say that they've created it. I don't
think that's that's fair. You know, you can't blame them
for everything, much as I might sometimes appear that way
as the leader of the opposition. You know, trial poverty
in New Zealand has been a long standing challenge. It's
built up over decades, but they've made it worse. That's
absolutely correct, all.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
Right, And what happens from here on? Do you think
there should be an apology from the Prime Minister for
the Marmite comment.
Speaker 3 (07:00):
I'm more interested in them fixing the problem, to be frank,
you know, I think we had a free healthy school
lunches program was working. It was delivering fresh food for
kids every day. It was creating local employment. Yes, it
was a bit more expensive than the cut price option
that they've gone with, but actually kids properly got fed.
Who was creating local jobs. In many cases some of
(07:21):
those people who were making the lunches. Now with government's
paying them in a different way. We're paying them through
an unemployment benefit, when previously they're being paid to make
lunches for kids. So I'm not sure that it's actually
saved us that much money. I think they should go
back to that program because it was working, and frankually,
I think that you know, more than anything else, just
get a solution here.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
Do you think though, that the providing meals for every
child is necessary?
Speaker 3 (07:48):
I think in a school it's they're not being provided
to every child, every child within our school. Now, within
a school, you might have a group of kids whose
parents could do that, but you create different issues around
stigma around the school lunches program and so on if
you start targeting it at an individual child level, and
(08:09):
it actually starts to create issues within the school. So
we looked at that closely when we set up the program,
and we actually worked out as the best way to
do it was to make sure that we're targeting the
schools with the highest concentrations of kids who need it,
and if a few other kids get that extra advantage,
then that's you know, we'll get get the free lunches
as well. That's all well and good because actually it
means that you're genuinely creating a level playing field for
(08:31):
the kids at that school.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
All right, thanks for time, Chris Hapkins talk again in
a Fortnite Leader of the Labor Party and the Opposition.
Speaker 1 (08:39):
For more from Catebory Mornings with John McDonald. Listen live
to news talks It'd Be christ Church from nine am weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
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