Much has happened this week, so National’s Hamish Campbell and Labour’s Tracey McLellan joined John MacDonald to delve into the biggest issues.
They discussed whether the Government should underwrite power prices to reduce bills, the viability of Treasury’s solutions to the financial crunch, and the results of the Herald’s annual Mood of the Boardroom survey.
Plus, the ever-hot topic that is the state of Christchurch Hospital’s overwhelmed emergency department.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Canterbury Mornings podcast with John McDonald
from News Talks.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
There'd be seven past ten on Fridays means only one
thing politics Friday Nationals. Hamish Campbell, nice to see you.
I see you, John, haven't seen you for a while.
Speaker 3 (00:19):
No, it's great to be here.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Have they been keeping you out of circulation?
Speaker 4 (00:22):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (00:22):
I think it's just been. There's been a lot on
and we have a great team and so I think
a lot of my colleagues have been doing the show.
We rotated around very very well.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Might I add brilliant, So no pressure, no pressure, all right.
Tracy McClellan from Labour Morning, how are you good?
Speaker 4 (00:37):
Thank you?
Speaker 2 (00:38):
All right? You were talking off here with with Hamish
about your son's campaign for the counselor at the moment
to man, your family, your family, You're just you've got
politics in the blood, all of you, haven't you. We
love a good door knock, I think is that what
it comes down to, So it's not just trying to
change the world, it's just knocking on the door.
Speaker 4 (00:56):
I love talking. We just love talking to people. It's interesting,
it's an interesting world and local body politics. People can think, oh,
it's a little bit boring, but yeah, lines outside your
house or little things like that. The difference between having
a good day and about that bad day.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
So you know, you know what it's like in life
when when you're going through something, you're dealing with something,
you just get on and deal with it. But if
it's someone you care about going through something, you you
can feel a little bit more. So what's it like
being the mother of a politician.
Speaker 4 (01:30):
It's an interesting question, isn't it, Because I do feel
a little bit more like I do get a bit
defensive to any criticism or if I think, oh, people
just need to understand that a little bit more and
then they'd they'd see So.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
You'll always be as mum as always be mum.
Speaker 4 (01:45):
Yeah, but honestly, he loves his job, so you can't
ask for more than that, is a mum.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
Power prices, Homus Campbell, Is it the job of the
government to deliver lower power prices?
Speaker 3 (01:56):
Look, I think kind of we agree. I think that
the power prices are too high, and of course it
hasn't been helped by the band of oil and gas explirations.
Of course with repealed that because we do think New
Zealanders are paying too much for power.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
So easy to say that, easier to say that, easy.
Speaker 3 (02:15):
Can I finish? Can I finish? And so your question
was is that the government's job? And I'd say the
government's job is to actually make an atmosphere that we
can actually build renewables. We can do things in a
timely manner, and that is why we're doing things like
the fast train. The expirationally have an impact on I'll
tell you what.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
They've had you in the box for quite a few weeks.
We've got a lot to say going through those key messages.
You've been roomed with no windows and an overhead projector,
and you've just got those key messages, and.
Speaker 3 (02:49):
Well, can you can you disagree with anything I've just said? John?
Speaker 2 (02:51):
Well like work because you haven't actually answered the question
so well.
Speaker 3 (02:56):
The question was should the government do anything about power?
Speaker 2 (02:59):
The question was is it the government's job to deliver
lower power prices?
Speaker 3 (03:03):
So my answer to that is it's the government's role
to actually set environment where the power prices will be long.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
So what are you going to do about air fes?
People playing four hundred bucks to live from grind Sturies
to Auckland.
Speaker 3 (03:13):
Well, once again we need to make sure that we
have a competitive market. What does that mean, Well, it
means that there's not regulations in place that may prevent
other entrance into the market.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
Are you're going to make it cheaper for people playing
for uber taxes? It's endless. It's very easy to say, oh,
we're going to LIVERPB prices, but then.
Speaker 3 (03:29):
Well, no, I didn't say we're going to deliver cheaper
power prices. We're having We're going to have conditions that
all drive competition, which then hopefully will lead to power prices.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
All right, same questions for equality trys to the same question.
Is it the government or a government's job to deliver
lower power prices?
Speaker 4 (03:46):
I believe in an active state, and I think that
market or what's that mean? Well, markets can fail, they're
not perfect, and therefore I think one of the most
important roles of a state is to say, maybe we
need to intervene in a market that's not performing the
way it needs to to deliver basic things for people.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
So that's a yes, yes, all right, supermarket prices. Government
job to deliver a lower supermarket price.
Speaker 4 (04:13):
I think the government plays a role in that, and
we need to do more the market isn't what are
you serving the people?
Speaker 3 (04:24):
Your colleagues is blocking a supermarket in orbans reducing competition?
So how does that say?
Speaker 2 (04:32):
That's a very good point.
Speaker 4 (04:34):
I think there's the problem with supermarkets and with grocery
prices a little bit more profound.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
It wasn't really question. We need to put a question
a question Marke at the end of the homes then.
Speaker 3 (04:46):
How does your colleague blocking a supermarket being built help
with competition to help drive prices down?
Speaker 4 (04:54):
I don't know about the particular issue that.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
Youre homes is going to going to brief you what's
going on.
Speaker 3 (05:02):
Duncan Web has come out in opposition to a news
market and orbans.
Speaker 4 (05:07):
How is that blocking it? He raised raised an opinion
about something.
Speaker 3 (05:15):
Well, the thing is, of course, a lot of our
planning regulations are inhibitory, and people can make submissions to
block block other people using some of the land as
they would. And look, we think it's a huge issue,
and that's why we're introducing legislation so supermarkets can go
through a fast tracked consenting process so we can actually
have more competition.
Speaker 4 (05:35):
And I think if you're focused on that one particular
submission where someone raises an opinion about something. You're not
focused on the bigger picture, which is what can a
state do? What can the government do to level the
playing field so that grocery prices aren't right?
Speaker 2 (05:49):
So let's get it back on. The grocery is an
example how power help can be endless? All right, what
can the state do for prices?
Speaker 4 (05:59):
Well, I think the state can be an active partner?
Speaker 2 (06:02):
Right, So I mean nationalization nationalizing the energy sector is
the only word doing that, isn't it.
Speaker 4 (06:07):
Well, I think there's probably some steps in between and
between nationalization, but the state has to be an active
partner in an active participant in this market, because it's not.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
What does that mean? What does it mean? I mean
you could say that the state already is because it's
fifty one percent shareholder in some of these companies.
Speaker 4 (06:23):
Yes, but I think there's a lot more levers available
to the state to be able to do more. And
I think the original question was should the state be
involved in a new generator? You know, Jim Taylor, But
you know, the energy market is incredibly complicated, and that's
(06:44):
why I mean, I fundamentally believe in an active state,
and I think that a good government does not just
leave it to the market and hope for the best.
Many people listening today will remember what happened when we
sold off.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
Yeah, I'm going to come back. I'm going to come
back to that with Hamri. So so that's fine. So
Hamis she talked about your government creating the environment which
will deliver low power price. Its going to remind you
that it was actually your party in government that created
this market, this dog of a market in the first place.
Speaker 3 (07:11):
I think, and Tracy mentioned it is a complicated market,
of course.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
Is does it a dog of a market?
Speaker 3 (07:16):
Would you look think? I think there's kind of there's
a whole range of different types of generation. We have
base low generation, we have renewables, we have firming generation,
and of course that's the one that kind of is
really sets the price because of course that's the most expensive.
That's the power that we need. We need to be
able to switch on quickly and switch on and off often.
We have in the past use gas. Of course, we
(07:37):
have our gas supplies have dwindled. We haven't been able
to explore our own reserves. And I think that's going
to have a great impact by actually being able.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
To do it all right, quick answer from both of
you and that we're going to move on. Has Tracy,
how's the electricity market failed?
Speaker 4 (07:53):
The electricity market has failed many New Zealanders because they're
paying too much for electricity.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
Yes, yes, omous shows the electricity market failed.
Speaker 3 (08:03):
Well what we What I'd say is actually people are
paying too much prices, so in some ways possibly yes,
we are working through the Frontiers review into the Alec
Cristy and so you expect some announcements in the coming days.
When is that happening incoming days?
Speaker 2 (08:20):
How far away?
Speaker 3 (08:22):
Within within a couple of a couple of weeks?
Speaker 2 (08:25):
Do you know what it was?
Speaker 3 (08:27):
Do you know I'm not going to announce it.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
Luck for another six weeks. Let's talk about christ Church
Hospital's emergency department. It's pretty much in code read every
day doctors are speaking up. I want to ask both
of you the question that I asked our audience the
other day. I'll start with you, Homes Campbell. Is this
good enough?
Speaker 3 (08:50):
Look? I think that this is not something that's just
a resin overnight. Christ which is one of the busiest
emergency departments, not only in New Zealand but in Australasia,
and it does take a lot of pressure, especially in
with a lot of winter flu. Everything we know, yep,
(09:11):
and look we're doing a lot to try and alleviate
the pressure on hospitals. We funded an extra ten sixteen
sorry observational beds in the ED last year. This is
beads for people that may come in with allergic reaction.
So maybe not needing, just for observation to help flow
the free free up the flow through through the emergency department.
Speaker 2 (09:34):
Can I just aswer you back to the question is
it good enough?
Speaker 4 (09:37):
Well?
Speaker 3 (09:37):
I think that well no, well it depends what you
call good enough.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
People people dat eight people waiting twenty four hours for
twenty one people, people someone someone who spoke to was
that was there last weekend? And people sitting in chairs, no, no,
no room for people for support people, people in cheers,
blood dripping on the floor. I mean, absolutely awful. A
doctor walking around with a backpack because he carries all
(10:06):
his personal belongings, because he's got no idea what war
is going to be working on from minute to minute.
So is it good enough?
Speaker 3 (10:13):
Or we are trying to clean up the mess of
the health reforms that happened under the previous government. So
the elect metic and the Health elect Committee. We heard
that the combined District Health Board's outputs are lower than
when they were individual dhps can as a sign of
a failed reform.
Speaker 2 (10:30):
Can I just share align with you, which I've you
several times on the show. People don't people don't care.
People don't care what you know until they know that
you care, and so far delivered a whole lot of
stuff but nothing that shows that you care.
Speaker 3 (10:44):
So okay, can I can I explain what we're doing?
We do care. This is serious issues with our emergency department,
one of the busiest ones in the country. We need
to make sure that we can relieve the pressure on
our emergency department. We're doing that through multiple ways. We're
empowering prim healthcare because if you can't get an appointment
to a GP, of course whatever issue have may become
(11:06):
more serious and some you need.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
To Sorry, I'm sorry. I'm gonna come to Tracy, but
I'm sorry, Hamish. What you're talking about, Yeah, it sounds good,
but if you actually listen to it, it says nothing
you're talking about. So I took that primary healthcare. But
the person who was I spoke with the other day,
who was at the emergency department. It was a Sunday afternoon.
No GP is open on a Sunday afternoon.
Speaker 3 (11:27):
Yes there is. There is a twenty four hour clinic
just down the road.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
Which is overflowing with people.
Speaker 3 (11:32):
So yeah, but once again, if we can get people
treated in a timely manner, they don't need they won't
escalate to the emergency department. Sure, some people are always going
to need to go to the emergency department, but if
we can take the pressure off by actually things can
be dealt in the primary healthcare. Also in hospitals. The
flow through a hospital is also very important. So it's
not just necessary who's appearing at ED, but it's actually
(11:55):
what's the process after they need to then get em bettered.
So we have introduced health targets to make sure that
over ninety percent of people either omitted or transferred or
discharged within.
Speaker 2 (12:06):
Sex went with that target.
Speaker 3 (12:08):
So Crush Hospital was setting about eighty one point five
all right, and that is up from about sixty eight
percent when with targets weren't in place. Tracy, we also
can I finish back getting get rid of the flow
through the hospital. We're actually also taking off about sixteen
thousand elective surgeries to do and other other facilities around
the country to take pressure of our hospitals to allow
(12:29):
that flow through the hospital.
Speaker 2 (12:30):
Tracy, can you give me a much briefer answer to
the same question, is this good enough?
Speaker 4 (12:35):
No, it's not, and it's scary. And I read those
stories as well and thought, gosh, a, you've got to
feel for the people working in those conditions because they've
had a guts full and they're worried about practicing safely.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
Sure, and your party had six years to do something
about it and you didn't.
Speaker 4 (12:50):
And it's and it's one of those situations that you've
got to constantly strive to do better. And the other
thing I think is important if we're going to have
these conversations is to also reiterate because there'll be people
listening who may need to go to ED and who
now don't because they think that it's a war zone.
(13:10):
And we've got to remind people at every opportunity that
we get that if you need to go to ED,
please still do and the staff there are world leading
and you will be looking a right.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
But it was a huge amount of pressure. Do you
think it's a war zone?
Speaker 4 (13:26):
I was there recently myself, and it was incredibly busy,
incredibly busy, and there were people in the corridors and
I felt awkward about having to walk past people because
I felt I was invading their space just to get
to the person that I was visiting. And you know
that raises alarm bounds. That's what we have systems that
(13:48):
measure care.
Speaker 2 (13:49):
Okay, in hindsight, do you think your government could have
done more to prevent the situation that the hospital finds
itself in today.
Speaker 4 (13:56):
I think any government can always do more. You never
get to the bottom of health, but you've got to
keep making sure that you're investing in the health workforce.
And we know that with all of the industy real
action going on at the moment, that the health workforce
do not feel supported by this government.
Speaker 2 (14:11):
All right, and they probably felt the same under your government.
Speaker 4 (14:14):
We certainly had industrial action when we were in government
as well.
Speaker 3 (14:17):
That's you.
Speaker 2 (14:19):
I want you to hold you breath because tell you what,
I'm going to try and get the Palestine decision out
of you, and Imich wants announce I'm going to be
tomorrow morning at the United Nations that we as New
Zealand recognizing Palestinians Palestine.
Speaker 3 (14:29):
Don't look that the Foreign Minister will will make that
that make that decision along with Cabinet who's working through
the process. Look, this is a very sensitive topic. It's
absolutely tragedy of what's happening in the Middle East on
both sides.
Speaker 2 (14:44):
Right, So I'm not asking you, so I know you're
not going to give it away to me, But do
you know what the decision is at the moment?
Speaker 3 (14:52):
Look, I think there's probably probably the whole range of
things that are being discussed, including including the conversations that
Winston Peters is having overseas, and currently I do not
know what those conversations are with with with our partner.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
But the Primeter said there has been a preliminary decision,
So do you know what that preliminary decision is.
Speaker 3 (15:12):
Look, I think I could probably have a guess which
way which way it's leaning. But once again, there's a
whole range of things that need to be taken into consideration.
Any foreign affairs matter is very sensitive.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
So non non cabinet members are only going to find
out when the rest of us find out.
Speaker 3 (15:29):
There we have had discussions about to do about this. Well,
I probably know which way we're leaning and look, I
think once again it's a very sensitive, sensitive issue. I
think everybody agrees that what happened on October the seventh
was absolutely tragic. I think everybody thinks that the loss
of life that have happened after that is completely tragic.
(15:51):
I think we can probably all agree that Hamas is
a terrorist organization, and I think there's things that we
need to work through to make sure we have we want.
What we want is long lasting peace.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
When you say exactly when when you say you know
the way we're leaning, is that the way that nationals learning,
all the way the coalition government's learning.
Speaker 3 (16:12):
Well, I know what conversations we've been having within the National.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
Party, all right, Tracy, have we heard anything on the grapevine?
Speaker 4 (16:21):
No, I've heard nothing whatsoever. I do find it a
bit bizarre. It's supposed to be our position, like our position,
and none of us had any idea how this is
going to play out. And it's indicative of the fact
that the government, I think, have just taken far too
long to address this issue. It's an unfolding genocide and
we should as a country, as a group of people,
(16:42):
have some sort of feeling about where this is going
and we're completely in the dark.
Speaker 3 (16:48):
This has been an ongoing conflict since that.
Speaker 2 (16:53):
We don't need a history lesson.
Speaker 3 (16:55):
There was a very good quote about the Bell four
decoration that said one nation solemnly promised to second the
country of a third. Now, the thing is that's probably
a little bit of a simplification, but it shows that
we actually have to be very careful when we're talking
about other nations and their their state, their their affairs,
(17:16):
that we don't actually create a bigger problem than what's
already there. And we what we want is a long
lasting So what position of.
Speaker 2 (17:23):
New Zealand's would make it worse?
Speaker 3 (17:26):
Well, the thing is that that's what needs to be
conversation with our international partners, because the thing is New
zound By itself is actually has a very little little
sway in the matter.
Speaker 4 (17:37):
A lot of our good friends have already come out
and made their position clear. Though it feels to me
but it feels to me it's the kind.
Speaker 3 (17:45):
Of a condition conditions on.
Speaker 4 (17:51):
To me, it feels a lot of our friends have
already made this choice. So it feels as if there's
still some uncertainty within the government coalition partners, they'd be fair.
Speaker 3 (18:00):
No, I don't. I think it is. As I said,
it's a very complicated in sensitive matter. The last thing
we want to do is actually make either side think
the toes. And what we need is both states to
actually willingly recognize the others and the right to each
other to exist. Two states solution has been attempted multiple
times position and that has actually led to greater violence
(18:24):
following each of those those attempts. So I think our
stance is that we actually want long term peace and
the only way we're going to get that is through
a political solution.
Speaker 2 (18:36):
Is that what New Zealand is going to say tomorrow.
Speaker 3 (18:39):
Well you'll have to wait to what said tomorrow.
Speaker 2 (18:41):
Nice to see homes Campbell.
Speaker 3 (18:43):
Nice, it's nice to you.
Speaker 4 (18:45):
Thank you.
Speaker 3 (18:46):
Have a good weekend. Everyone, have a good weekend.
Speaker 1 (18:48):
John.
Speaker 3 (18:48):
A lot of Indian cultural events coming up, so looking
forward to those and of course hopefully the weather's going
to be nice. Sundays meant to be a good.
Speaker 2 (18:55):
Day and go the all blacks who.
Speaker 1 (18:57):
Are for more from Canterbory Mornings with John McDonald. Listen
live to news Talks It'd be christ Church from nine
am weekdays, or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio,
You're listening to the Canterbury Mornings podcast with John McDonald
from News Talks.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
There'd be seven past ten on Fridays means only one
thing politics Friday Nationals. Hamish Campbell, nice to see you.
I see you, John, haven't seen you for a while.
Speaker 3 (00:19):
No, it's great to be here.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Have they been keeping you out of circulation?
Speaker 4 (00:22):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (00:22):
I think it's just been. There's been a lot on
and we have a great team and so I think
a lot of my colleagues have been doing the show.
We rotated around very very well.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Might I add brilliant, So no pressure, no pressure, all right.
Tracy McClellan from Labour Morning, how are you good?
Speaker 4 (00:37):
Thank you?
Speaker 2 (00:38):
All right? You were talking off here with with Hamish
about your son's campaign for the counselor at the moment
to man, your family, your family, You're just you've got
politics in the blood, all of you, haven't you. We
love a good door knock, I think is that what
it comes down to, So it's not just trying to
change the world, it's just knocking on the door.
Speaker 4 (00:56):
I love talking. We just love talking to people. It's interesting,
it's an interesting world and local body politics. People can think, oh,
it's a little bit boring, but yeah, lines outside your
house or little things like that. The difference between having
a good day and about that bad day.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
So you know, you know what it's like in life
when when you're going through something, you're dealing with something,
you just get on and deal with it. But if
it's someone you care about going through something, you you
can feel a little bit more. So what's it like
being the mother of a politician.
Speaker 4 (01:30):
It's an interesting question, isn't it, Because I do feel
a little bit more like I do get a bit
defensive to any criticism or if I think, oh, people
just need to understand that a little bit more and
then they'd they'd see So.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
You'll always be as mum as always be mum.
Speaker 4 (01:45):
Yeah, but honestly, he loves his job, so you can't
ask for more than that, is a mum.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
Power prices, Homus Campbell, Is it the job of the
government to deliver lower power prices?
Speaker 3 (01:56):
Look, I think kind of we agree. I think that
the power prices are too high, and of course it
hasn't been helped by the band of oil and gas explirations.
Of course with repealed that because we do think New
Zealanders are paying too much for power.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
So easy to say that, easier to say that, easy.
Speaker 3 (02:15):
Can I finish? Can I finish? And so your question
was is that the government's job? And I'd say the
government's job is to actually make an atmosphere that we
can actually build renewables. We can do things in a
timely manner, and that is why we're doing things like
the fast train. The expirationally have an impact on I'll
tell you what.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
They've had you in the box for quite a few weeks.
We've got a lot to say going through those key messages.
You've been roomed with no windows and an overhead projector,
and you've just got those key messages, and.
Speaker 3 (02:49):
Well, can you can you disagree with anything I've just said? John?
Speaker 2 (02:51):
Well like work because you haven't actually answered the question
so well.
Speaker 3 (02:56):
The question was should the government do anything about power?
Speaker 2 (02:59):
The question was is it the government's job to deliver
lower power prices?
Speaker 3 (03:03):
So my answer to that is it's the government's role
to actually set environment where the power prices will be long.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
So what are you going to do about air fes?
People playing four hundred bucks to live from grind Sturies
to Auckland.
Speaker 3 (03:13):
Well, once again we need to make sure that we
have a competitive market. What does that mean, Well, it
means that there's not regulations in place that may prevent
other entrance into the market.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
Are you're going to make it cheaper for people playing
for uber taxes? It's endless. It's very easy to say, oh,
we're going to LIVERPB prices, but then.
Speaker 3 (03:29):
Well, no, I didn't say we're going to deliver cheaper
power prices. We're having We're going to have conditions that
all drive competition, which then hopefully will lead to power prices.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
All right, same questions for equality trys to the same question.
Is it the government or a government's job to deliver
lower power prices?
Speaker 4 (03:46):
I believe in an active state, and I think that
market or what's that mean? Well, markets can fail, they're
not perfect, and therefore I think one of the most
important roles of a state is to say, maybe we
need to intervene in a market that's not performing the
way it needs to to deliver basic things for people.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
So that's a yes, yes, all right, supermarket prices. Government
job to deliver a lower supermarket price.
Speaker 4 (04:13):
I think the government plays a role in that, and
we need to do more the market isn't what are
you serving the people?
Speaker 3 (04:24):
Your colleagues is blocking a supermarket in orbans reducing competition?
So how does that say?
Speaker 2 (04:32):
That's a very good point.
Speaker 4 (04:34):
I think there's the problem with supermarkets and with grocery
prices a little bit more profound.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
It wasn't really question. We need to put a question
a question Marke at the end of the homes then.
Speaker 3 (04:46):
How does your colleague blocking a supermarket being built help
with competition to help drive prices down?
Speaker 4 (04:54):
I don't know about the particular issue that.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
Youre homes is going to going to brief you what's
going on.
Speaker 3 (05:02):
Duncan Web has come out in opposition to a news
market and orbans.
Speaker 4 (05:07):
How is that blocking it? He raised raised an opinion
about something.
Speaker 3 (05:15):
Well, the thing is, of course, a lot of our
planning regulations are inhibitory, and people can make submissions to
block block other people using some of the land as
they would. And look, we think it's a huge issue,
and that's why we're introducing legislation so supermarkets can go
through a fast tracked consenting process so we can actually
have more competition.
Speaker 4 (05:35):
And I think if you're focused on that one particular
submission where someone raises an opinion about something. You're not
focused on the bigger picture, which is what can a
state do? What can the government do to level the
playing field so that grocery prices aren't right?
Speaker 2 (05:49):
So let's get it back on. The grocery is an
example how power help can be endless? All right, what
can the state do for prices?
Speaker 4 (05:59):
Well, I think the state can be an active partner?
Speaker 2 (06:02):
Right, So I mean nationalization nationalizing the energy sector is
the only word doing that, isn't it.
Speaker 4 (06:07):
Well, I think there's probably some steps in between and
between nationalization, but the state has to be an active
partner in an active participant in this market, because it's not.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
What does that mean? What does it mean? I mean
you could say that the state already is because it's
fifty one percent shareholder in some of these companies.
Speaker 4 (06:23):
Yes, but I think there's a lot more levers available
to the state to be able to do more. And
I think the original question was should the state be
involved in a new generator? You know, Jim Taylor, But
you know, the energy market is incredibly complicated, and that's
(06:44):
why I mean, I fundamentally believe in an active state,
and I think that a good government does not just
leave it to the market and hope for the best.
Many people listening today will remember what happened when we
sold off.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
Yeah, I'm going to come back. I'm going to come
back to that with Hamri. So so that's fine. So
Hamis she talked about your government creating the environment which
will deliver low power price. Its going to remind you
that it was actually your party in government that created
this market, this dog of a market in the first place.
Speaker 3 (07:11):
I think, and Tracy mentioned it is a complicated market,
of course.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
Is does it a dog of a market?
Speaker 3 (07:16):
Would you look think? I think there's kind of there's
a whole range of different types of generation. We have
base low generation, we have renewables, we have firming generation,
and of course that's the one that kind of is
really sets the price because of course that's the most expensive.
That's the power that we need. We need to be
able to switch on quickly and switch on and off often.
We have in the past use gas. Of course, we
(07:37):
have our gas supplies have dwindled. We haven't been able
to explore our own reserves. And I think that's going
to have a great impact by actually being able.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
To do it all right, quick answer from both of
you and that we're going to move on. Has Tracy,
how's the electricity market failed?
Speaker 4 (07:53):
The electricity market has failed many New Zealanders because they're
paying too much for electricity.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
Yes, yes, omous shows the electricity market failed.
Speaker 3 (08:03):
Well what we What I'd say is actually people are
paying too much prices, so in some ways possibly yes,
we are working through the Frontiers review into the Alec
Cristy and so you expect some announcements in the coming days.
When is that happening incoming days?
Speaker 2 (08:20):
How far away?
Speaker 3 (08:22):
Within within a couple of a couple of weeks?
Speaker 2 (08:25):
Do you know what it was?
Speaker 3 (08:27):
Do you know I'm not going to announce it.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
Luck for another six weeks. Let's talk about christ Church
Hospital's emergency department. It's pretty much in code read every
day doctors are speaking up. I want to ask both
of you the question that I asked our audience the
other day. I'll start with you, Homes Campbell. Is this
good enough?
Speaker 3 (08:50):
Look? I think that this is not something that's just
a resin overnight. Christ which is one of the busiest
emergency departments, not only in New Zealand but in Australasia,
and it does take a lot of pressure, especially in
with a lot of winter flu. Everything we know, yep,
(09:11):
and look we're doing a lot to try and alleviate
the pressure on hospitals. We funded an extra ten sixteen
sorry observational beds in the ED last year. This is
beads for people that may come in with allergic reaction.
So maybe not needing, just for observation to help flow
the free free up the flow through through the emergency department.
Speaker 2 (09:34):
Can I just aswer you back to the question is
it good enough?
Speaker 4 (09:37):
Well?
Speaker 3 (09:37):
I think that well no, well it depends what you
call good enough.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
People people dat eight people waiting twenty four hours for
twenty one people, people someone someone who spoke to was
that was there last weekend? And people sitting in chairs, no, no,
no room for people for support people, people in cheers,
blood dripping on the floor. I mean, absolutely awful. A
doctor walking around with a backpack because he carries all
(10:06):
his personal belongings, because he's got no idea what war
is going to be working on from minute to minute.
So is it good enough?
Speaker 3 (10:13):
Or we are trying to clean up the mess of
the health reforms that happened under the previous government. So
the elect metic and the Health elect Committee. We heard
that the combined District Health Board's outputs are lower than
when they were individual dhps can as a sign of
a failed reform.
Speaker 2 (10:30):
Can I just share align with you, which I've you
several times on the show. People don't people don't care.
People don't care what you know until they know that
you care, and so far delivered a whole lot of
stuff but nothing that shows that you care.
Speaker 3 (10:44):
So okay, can I can I explain what we're doing?
We do care. This is serious issues with our emergency department,
one of the busiest ones in the country. We need
to make sure that we can relieve the pressure on
our emergency department. We're doing that through multiple ways. We're
empowering prim healthcare because if you can't get an appointment
to a GP, of course whatever issue have may become
(11:06):
more serious and some you need.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
To Sorry, I'm sorry. I'm gonna come to Tracy, but
I'm sorry, Hamish. What you're talking about, Yeah, it sounds good,
but if you actually listen to it, it says nothing
you're talking about. So I took that primary healthcare. But
the person who was I spoke with the other day,
who was at the emergency department. It was a Sunday afternoon.
No GP is open on a Sunday afternoon.
Speaker 3 (11:27):
Yes there is. There is a twenty four hour clinic
just down the road.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
Which is overflowing with people.
Speaker 3 (11:32):
So yeah, but once again, if we can get people
treated in a timely manner, they don't need they won't
escalate to the emergency department. Sure, some people are always going
to need to go to the emergency department, but if
we can take the pressure off by actually things can
be dealt in the primary healthcare. Also in hospitals. The
flow through a hospital is also very important. So it's
not just necessary who's appearing at ED, but it's actually
(11:55):
what's the process after they need to then get em bettered.
So we have introduced health targets to make sure that
over ninety percent of people either omitted or transferred or
discharged within.
Speaker 2 (12:06):
Sex went with that target.
Speaker 3 (12:08):
So Crush Hospital was setting about eighty one point five
all right, and that is up from about sixty eight
percent when with targets weren't in place. Tracy, we also
can I finish back getting get rid of the flow
through the hospital. We're actually also taking off about sixteen
thousand elective surgeries to do and other other facilities around
the country to take pressure of our hospitals to allow
(12:29):
that flow through the hospital.
Speaker 2 (12:30):
Tracy, can you give me a much briefer answer to
the same question, is this good enough?
Speaker 4 (12:35):
No, it's not, and it's scary. And I read those
stories as well and thought, gosh, a, you've got to
feel for the people working in those conditions because they've
had a guts full and they're worried about practicing safely.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
Sure, and your party had six years to do something
about it and you didn't.
Speaker 4 (12:50):
And it's and it's one of those situations that you've
got to constantly strive to do better. And the other
thing I think is important if we're going to have
these conversations is to also reiterate because there'll be people
listening who may need to go to ED and who
now don't because they think that it's a war zone.
(13:10):
And we've got to remind people at every opportunity that
we get that if you need to go to ED,
please still do and the staff there are world leading
and you will be looking a right.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
But it was a huge amount of pressure. Do you
think it's a war zone?
Speaker 4 (13:26):
I was there recently myself, and it was incredibly busy,
incredibly busy, and there were people in the corridors and
I felt awkward about having to walk past people because
I felt I was invading their space just to get
to the person that I was visiting. And you know
that raises alarm bounds. That's what we have systems that
(13:48):
measure care.
Speaker 2 (13:49):
Okay, in hindsight, do you think your government could have
done more to prevent the situation that the hospital finds
itself in today.
Speaker 4 (13:56):
I think any government can always do more. You never
get to the bottom of health, but you've got to
keep making sure that you're investing in the health workforce.
And we know that with all of the industy real
action going on at the moment, that the health workforce
do not feel supported by this government.
Speaker 2 (14:11):
All right, and they probably felt the same under your government.
Speaker 4 (14:14):
We certainly had industrial action when we were in government
as well.
Speaker 3 (14:17):
That's you.
Speaker 2 (14:19):
I want you to hold you breath because tell you what,
I'm going to try and get the Palestine decision out
of you, and Imich wants announce I'm going to be
tomorrow morning at the United Nations that we as New
Zealand recognizing Palestinians Palestine.
Speaker 3 (14:29):
Don't look that the Foreign Minister will will make that
that make that decision along with Cabinet who's working through
the process. Look, this is a very sensitive topic. It's
absolutely tragedy of what's happening in the Middle East on
both sides.
Speaker 2 (14:44):
Right, So I'm not asking you, so I know you're
not going to give it away to me, But do
you know what the decision is at the moment?
Speaker 3 (14:52):
Look, I think there's probably probably the whole range of
things that are being discussed, including including the conversations that
Winston Peters is having overseas, and currently I do not
know what those conversations are with with with our partner.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
But the Primeter said there has been a preliminary decision,
So do you know what that preliminary decision is.
Speaker 3 (15:12):
Look, I think I could probably have a guess which
way which way it's leaning. But once again, there's a
whole range of things that need to be taken into consideration.
Any foreign affairs matter is very sensitive.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
So non non cabinet members are only going to find
out when the rest of us find out.
Speaker 3 (15:29):
There we have had discussions about to do about this. Well,
I probably know which way we're leaning and look, I
think once again it's a very sensitive, sensitive issue. I
think everybody agrees that what happened on October the seventh
was absolutely tragic. I think everybody thinks that the loss
of life that have happened after that is completely tragic.
(15:51):
I think we can probably all agree that Hamas is
a terrorist organization, and I think there's things that we
need to work through to make sure we have we want.
What we want is long lasting peace.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
When you say exactly when when you say you know
the way we're leaning, is that the way that nationals learning,
all the way the coalition government's learning.
Speaker 3 (16:12):
Well, I know what conversations we've been having within the National.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
Party, all right, Tracy, have we heard anything on the grapevine?
Speaker 4 (16:21):
No, I've heard nothing whatsoever. I do find it a
bit bizarre. It's supposed to be our position, like our position,
and none of us had any idea how this is
going to play out. And it's indicative of the fact
that the government, I think, have just taken far too
long to address this issue. It's an unfolding genocide and
we should as a country, as a group of people,
(16:42):
have some sort of feeling about where this is going
and we're completely in the dark.
Speaker 3 (16:48):
This has been an ongoing conflict since that.
Speaker 2 (16:53):
We don't need a history lesson.
Speaker 3 (16:55):
There was a very good quote about the Bell four
decoration that said one nation solemnly promised to second the
country of a third. Now, the thing is that's probably
a little bit of a simplification, but it shows that
we actually have to be very careful when we're talking
about other nations and their their state, their their affairs,
(17:16):
that we don't actually create a bigger problem than what's
already there. And we what we want is a long
lasting So what position of.
Speaker 2 (17:23):
New Zealand's would make it worse?
Speaker 3 (17:26):
Well, the thing is that that's what needs to be
conversation with our international partners, because the thing is New
zound By itself is actually has a very little little
sway in the matter.
Speaker 4 (17:37):
A lot of our good friends have already come out
and made their position clear. Though it feels to me
but it feels to me it's the kind.
Speaker 3 (17:45):
Of a condition conditions on.
Speaker 4 (17:51):
To me, it feels a lot of our friends have
already made this choice. So it feels as if there's
still some uncertainty within the government coalition partners, they'd be fair.
Speaker 3 (18:00):
No, I don't. I think it is. As I said,
it's a very complicated in sensitive matter. The last thing
we want to do is actually make either side think
the toes. And what we need is both states to
actually willingly recognize the others and the right to each
other to exist. Two states solution has been attempted multiple
times position and that has actually led to greater violence
(18:24):
following each of those those attempts. So I think our
stance is that we actually want long term peace and
the only way we're going to get that is through
a political solution.
Speaker 2 (18:36):
Is that what New Zealand is going to say tomorrow.
Speaker 3 (18:39):
Well you'll have to wait to what said tomorrow.
Speaker 2 (18:41):
Nice to see homes Campbell.
Speaker 3 (18:43):
Nice, it's nice to you.
Speaker 4 (18:45):
Thank you.
Speaker 3 (18:46):
Have a good weekend. Everyone, have a good weekend.
Speaker 1 (18:48):
John.
Speaker 3 (18:48):
A lot of Indian cultural events coming up, so looking
forward to those and of course hopefully the weather's going
to be nice. Sundays meant to be a good.
Speaker 2 (18:55):
Day and go the all blacks who.
Speaker 1 (18:57):
Are for more from Canterbory Mornings with John McDonald. Listen
live to news Talks It'd be christ Church from nine
am weekdays, or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio,
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