Penny Simmonds: Vocational Education Minister on the number of Kiwis dropping out of apprenticeships

There's concern about how many people drop out of apprenticeships, according to new reports.

Vocational Education Minister Penny Simmonds has told a conference more than half of trainees aren't completing training.

She says it's driven by a number of reasons, but she's pointing the finger at the previous Government incentivising training.

Simmonds says it means many signed up despite not being that interested - and didn't complete their apprenticeship.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
More than half of apprenticeship trainees in this country are
dropping out before getting their qualification. The Vocational Education Minister
told the Training Research Forum that the government is wasting
time and money. Penny Simmons is the Vocational Education Minister,
joining me now, Penny, good afternoon.

Speaker 2 (00:16):
Good afternoon, Ryan.

Speaker 1 (00:17):
That's terrible, isn't it. How half of them dropping out?
Why are they dropping out?

Speaker 2 (00:22):
Yeah, look, it is terrible. Look for various read reasons,
and it's different by industry and it's different by employers.
So we know the main things that keep young people
in apprenticeships, and it's things like being feeling that they're
well supported, feeling that they are part of a team,
feeling that they're part of an organization. And also their

(00:46):
pay makes a difference as well, so we know the
things that help them to stay there. But it's also
a reflection of the previous government paid a lot in
terms of apprentice boost to get young people into apprenticeships
during that COVID period. That pushed up the numbers going

(01:06):
in and a lot of them were not that serious
about their apprenticeship and didn't complete. So that's been a
bit of a waste.

Speaker 1 (01:14):
What did that cost us? How much are we wasting
on these apprentices not finishing.

Speaker 2 (01:22):
Well. It's tens of millions, probably getting close to hundreds
of millions, so it's quite a lot of money. But
it's a waste all round. Really. It's a waste to
the individual that might start an apprenticeship and not finish it.
They might have spent a year or two gaining skills
in an area and then not finishing it. It's a
waste for the government, but it's also a waste for

(01:42):
the employer. So we've got to work together. And that's
why I signaled that I am wanting some research done
on it next year by the industry Skills Boards to
really figure out what gets better outcomes for apprentices because
we know in some of the European countries where apprenticeships
have been around a long time, they get up to

(02:03):
eighty percent completion. So we need to lift that number
from fifty percent or less than fifty up to somewhere
close to that eighty percent.

Speaker 1 (02:11):
What has it been what is it normally?

Speaker 2 (02:14):
Look it, it's always been relatively low, but when the
government gave those incentives for people to go into apprenticeships,
it certainly increased the numbers going in, but didn't increase
the completions. In fact, it dropped as a proportion their completions.
So from what's tunneling more?

Speaker 1 (02:34):
How serious it's?

Speaker 2 (02:36):
Look, I haven't got it in front of me, but
it was. It was a good enough number that it
really brought into question the value of the apprentice boost,
which is why we scaled it back a bit and
made it much more focused.

Speaker 1 (02:51):
Penny, how much do they get paid in apprentice trainee?

Speaker 2 (02:54):
Oh? Look, it varies by employeer, but it's at the
lower end. There's a rate that you can play apprentices
that is lower than the minimum wage, a training wage
if you wish to, but it varies. There are some
employers that pay their apprentices either training, either the minimum

(03:17):
wage or a living wage, so it depends on each employer.

Speaker 1 (03:22):
Appreciate your trying, Penny Simmons, the vocational education message. For
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