Phil Thomson: Auror CEO unpacks surveillance technology used to record Golriz Ghahraman’s Pak’nSave incident

Police can search the retail surveillance network that recorded a shopping incident involving former Green MP Golriz Ghahraman, even when no complaint has been made.

Ghahraman was stopped and questioned by store security at Royal Oak's Pak’nSave in the weeks before her High Court case in early October.

Foodstuffs says it did not complain to police.

Surveillance network Auror is used by retailers - including Foodstuffs - and confirms police can access the information those clients record.

CEO Phil Thompson says the system lets all the parties work closely together.

"Retailers are capturing information on crimes and attempted crimes that happen in their stores and making that visible to their own head office - and also to police."

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Time to talk about a thing called Aura.

Speaker 2 (00:03):
Now.

Speaker 1 (00:04):
Aura is a surveillance network that retailers use and can
submit footage of shoplifting incidents to the police. So when
former Green MP god Is government was spoken to by
Pack and Save Security last year for suspected shoplifting, Pack
and Save did not talk to the police. They did
not make a complaint to the police, but they did

(00:24):
record the incident on the system called Aura. Police have
access to Ora apparently, and they have confirmed that's how
they found out about this latest incident with Gold's garment.
So Phil Thompson is the CEO of AURA and he
joins me right now, Hello, welcome to the program. Phil.
Thanks and did you name that after Harry Potter?

Speaker 2 (00:48):
No old lesson words for light. So keeping everyone safe? Right?

Speaker 1 (00:52):
So JK Rowling stole it from Latin. You've stole it
also from Latin and that is good. So what do
you guys actually do with this them?

Speaker 2 (01:01):
Yeah, I'm really useful to understand and mischaracterized as surveillance,
but quite simply, we're our crime reporting platform. So retailers
are capturing information on crimes and attempted crimes that happen
in their stores and making that visible to their own
head office and also to police. So it's a good
chance for retailers to work closer with police run retail

(01:24):
crime because it's probably not as widely understood the problem itself,
but across the country we've got a serious retail crime problem.
You know, there's more than two million dollars every day
being stolen. We're all paying more for our goods because
of that. And actually there's a lot of violence associated
with that crime as well, So that of all those
retail crimes include some sort of threats of violence to people.

Speaker 1 (01:45):
I'd hate to say this, mate, That doesn't surprise anybody
we know about this. So here's the question. How much
access do police have and can they look at everything
or any camera anytime any shop in New Zealand that
is using Aura.

Speaker 2 (01:59):
No they can't, so I think, you know, we aren't cameras,
We're not a surveillance system. Quite simply, retailers choose to
make the crimes that they witness in their stores visible
to police and then it's up to police to determine
how they use it information to investigate further and solve
more crime. So it's a way for retail to provide information,
including evidence like video, to police more efficiently. So we're

(02:22):
just modernizing what's always happened, but rather than paper files
and USB stics, we're making it digital much faster for
both sides.

Speaker 1 (02:29):
And I know you don't want to talk about this
case that we have at the moment because it's in
process and all that sort of thing. But after what
you just said, how come pack and Safe did to
make a complaint, but the police actually saw what happened.

Speaker 2 (02:40):
So retailers generally provide visibility to crime events for the police,
and they often choose which ones they want to report
officially for further follow up, and often it comes down
to things like if it's a non repeat offender or
if it is someone who has high value. But often
it's almost like when you call Triple five right for
dangerous driving that you see on the road yourself. You're

(03:02):
not making an official, complete plase complaint, but you're providing
them with information of what you're seeing. It's how we
keep our community safe, and I think police having information
around crimes that occur in our community is a good
thing that that helps all of us, rather than that
being seen as a sinister thing.

Speaker 1 (03:17):
I get that, and I see now how they were
notified about where to look on the tape to find out.
By the way, is the tape or no, of course
it's not a memory stick or something.

Speaker 2 (03:25):
Well, no, it's purely I mean the retailers now upload
their own evidence for video footage, witness statements into the
cloud and it makes it easier for police to download
that footage and then use it if they need to.

Speaker 1 (03:35):
Are there tecks and balances in place to prevent the
footage from being misused?

Speaker 2 (03:40):
Yes, there are so. Retailers and police have their own
policies around what information is uploaded, how it's used. And
also we've built a lot of safeguards and privacy by
design into the platform itself, so it's a restricted access
and use of the platform and only certain things like
crimes and tympt of crimes are visible to police with
a net.

Speaker 1 (04:00):
And is the footage ever deleted? How long does it
sit there?

Speaker 2 (04:04):
Yeah, retailers will keep information for as long as their
lawful purpose to doing so, and it is deleted when
it's no longer needed.

Speaker 1 (04:12):
Very good. So how many retailers have signed up?

Speaker 2 (04:17):
We work with probably most major retailers across New Zealand.
And we're actually operating in Australia, the US and the
UK as well. And when a retail crime is a
massive problem right across the world, and like I said earlier,
you know, we as as the consumer end up paying
more for our goods because of it, and also our
frontline workers are the targets of this violence and threats

(04:39):
in store.

Speaker 1 (04:40):
It's very good. So if you're if you've gotten a
furious purpose, be warned you are being watched. Phil Thompson
from Aura, thank you so much for your time today.

Speaker 2 (04:49):
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