March 24, 2025 • 11 mins
Tonight on The Huddle, Trish Sherson from Sherson Willis PR and former Labour Chief of Staff Mike Munro joined in on a discussion about the following issues of the day - and more!
Local Government NZ is warning against putting a cap on council rates, worried this will have a negative impact on its interest payments. But should we accept councils just ramping up rates that exceed inflation by multiples every year?
Winston Peters delivered his State of the Nation speech this weekend. He mentioned Labour more often than NZ First. What's his game plan here?
Auckland councillors will this week vote on the city's preferred stadium. But a significant number of them have admitted to having been entertained at Eden Park recently. Is this a problem?
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Tris Shurson. Shurson willis PR with us tonight. Hey Trish, Hey, Ryan,
good to have you on as always. And Mike Munroe,
former chief of staff to just Sinda Adina's here too, Ho, Mike,
gooda Ryan, Now, what are your thoughts first of all
on rates cap. I mean, Sam has a point that
it's not that I mean, it's not a it's not
(00:20):
a long term solution and certainly not going to help
with infrastructure. Mike, Yeah, I think he's.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Got a point. You know. My concern here is Ryan
that if we put in a cap, put a cap
in place, we just sort of kicked the can down
the road and some future council has to deal with
the you know, with the with the escalating costs which
which have been faced now, and that means, you know,
future rate payers have to deal with it, maybe our kids.
So so I agree with him, it's quite an artificial tool.
(00:49):
And I just think we need to go back at
some point and just look at the whole model of
local government and how we operate it. We've been sort
of mucking around at the fringes for a long time now,
and we have this same arguments of generation after generation
it seems like maybe we need to sort of re
examine the model and how we do local government in
New Zealand and whether it's fit for purposes we go
(01:10):
into these times of enormous infrastructure costs sort of steering
us in the face. And I'd also say something about
the long term plans I think are really important because
where that's where you know, if we do those in
an open and transparent way, we can see where the
costs are going to be sort of a loader on
us over the next three, five, ten years. So I
(01:32):
think a greater emphasis on those plans being really transparent
would help as well.
Speaker 1 (01:36):
Trish, what is the core of the problem with councils?
Are there too many voices? Are there too many people
at the table? What is it?
Speaker 3 (01:45):
I agree with Mike that fundamentally the model is broken.
In my view, in a country of our size and
scale a we've got way too many councils. If you
looked at relative population sizes overseas, you would not have
anywhere near this. That leads to cost and complexity. The
(02:07):
issue for rate payers is the huge uncertainty that is
being caused by exponential rate rises. So just to give
you a feel for the numbers. There is a great
story by Jonathan Killick in the Sunday so Times in
feb they went back and to have a look at
so in Wellington. That council has delivered rate increases of
(02:29):
twelve point eight, eight point eight, twelve point three and
eighteen point five percent in the last four years. The
projected increase means that that rate increase is going to
go up by more than one hundred and seventy five
percent over the next ten years. So you just can't
(02:50):
realistically expect people to be trying to pay a mortgage
and live in their own homes with wild rate increases like.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
That, especially when you don't and Mike, people don't feel
like well, not only do they not feel like it,
it's it's self evident they aren't getting more for it.
In fact, in a lot of cases, they're getting less.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
Yeah, and that's why we need to go back and
look at the model. You know, we've got to ask
some really big questions like take water, for example, is
water so important from a public health point of view
in terms of you know, clean water, wasteboaters, disposal, et cetera.
Maybe the states you look after that, maybe that a
should be fully funded centrally in New Zealand, so that
(03:32):
so that councils can go back to looking after the basics,
the bread and butter issues like you know, like your
rubbish collection and your footpaths and whatever. So if we
go on the same way, we're just going to have
the same pressure year after year because the cost of
running these cities and rebuilding these cities, especially the water infrastructure,
it's going to get higher and higher. So I just
don't see an end in sight if we just go
(03:54):
on the same old way.
Speaker 3 (03:56):
In the meantime, I think there are a couple of
useful things that the government is doing. Don't forget that.
Number one, they are later this year introducing legislation that
will force councils to get back to basics, so that's
in an attempt to stop waste on stuff they shouldn't
be doing. And then number two, they will also every
(04:19):
year make a report available nationally, so if I'm a
rate payer in Auckland, I can go on and essentially
compare my rates and the value for money I'm getting
against someone in Wellington or christ Church. I think that
will be a useful tool for local for people voting
in local body elections to hold elected councilors to account
(04:43):
for the money that they're spending.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
Yeah, hey, we'll leave it here, guys, and come back
and just a second. Tricius and Mike Munroe on the
Huddle tonight. Tricias and Mike Munroe on the Huddle tonight,
thirteen away from six. Winston went pretty hard on Labor
during his State of the Nation speech at the weekend,
which was obviously trish, you know, intentional. Winston doesn't do
anything that he hasn't thought very carefully about. You know,
(05:06):
there often the polls, he's potentially a threat. Winston's just
reminding everyone, Hey, this is what this guy, this is
his record.
Speaker 3 (05:15):
Yeah, I agree. I mean there's no surprises. I don't
think that he went after Labor, and I noted the
PM was asked about that at his post cabinet press
conference for instant and he was very positive about Winston
being the attack dog on Labor on Sunday. But I
do think that both Winston and the Prime Minister have
(05:39):
a point, and that is that it is outrageous what
happened under Labor, the waste, the mismanagement, and they have
left a massive hole that New Zealand has to climb
out of. The problem for New Zealand First and National
an Act is that the electorate is very impatient at
(06:01):
the moment and they won't look kindly on keeping on
blaming labor. They'll say, well, hey, you know, you guys
have been in now for fifteen fifteen months, so it's
a it's a fine line to tread. I think. The
other interesting thing though about Winston's speech and Labor was
if you if you read it on face value, it's
essentially saying New Zealand First will not work with Labor.
(06:27):
He called them a bunch of unreformed losers, I think
if I'm quoting him correctly, So so that was interesting
this far out. Don't forget before the last election he
also ruled out working with labor, but we've never seen
it this far out.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
Yeah, and I think specifically Hipkins he ruled out this
morning as well. Mike, does does this any of this
surprise you? And do you think is this a sign
that Winston actually is a little bit worried about labor?
Speaker 2 (06:55):
Well, yeah, right now, Labor's living in his head rent free.
It seems actually look that this was the orders a
State of the Nation speech, and that was actually false advertising.
It wasn't a state of the Nation speech. It was
the start of the twenty twenty six Labor election campaign.
So sorry, folks, it might only be some March twenty
twenty five, but the twenty six campaign is underway. Look,
you know, so much has been going on Ryan under
(07:17):
this a nept government, with treaty issues and failing health
services and the bunging over the Cook Strait fairies, the
school lunches issues. I guess Winston's fair is that people
are starting to forget about why they rejected labor at
the end of twenty twenty three, so he's just wanting
to give them a refresher on recent history, and he
(07:41):
chose this audience in this state to do that. The
other thing about the speech that amused me is that
about seven days ago we saw Winston the statesman in Washington, DC,
doing a great job as the country's foreign affairs minister,
acting like a statesman, and he comes home and sort
of lowers himself to this level of ranting on about
woke issues, this sort of pathetic, weird obsession that the
(08:02):
political right have with the state of the world. It
just showed you the two faces of Winston, so you know,
in the course of a few days now, and like you,
in many ways it shows you why it's such a
good politician. He can sort of switch from one to
the other quite quickly.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
Yeah, do you think it's a weird obsession. I mean,
clearly it's got some it's got some push through with
in America at least I don't know about here, but
I well, it's almost like a myth that that politicians
talk about it and therefore it exists. I think people
do genuinely feel aggrieved about something, don't they.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
Well, work has just become synonymous with sort of lefties
or liberals, and and you know he's appealing to all
those sort of high ground people and are the racist
and reactionaries and those with you know, a great intolerance
of all things Mardi, that's who he's talking to. That's
a support base. So I think when he uses woke, Yeah,
he's talking more about the sort of lefty liberal agenda,
(08:56):
which he doesn't like, and he's imploring his supporters not
to lie as well.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
Trish the stadium, which where would you prefer? Would you prefer?
We jazz up and tart up Eden Park or head
down to the waterfront.
Speaker 3 (09:10):
Well, well, you know, no one in Auckland. Yeah, no
one in Auckland would argue that trying to put lipstick
on Eden Park is the soul of New zeal That
Auckland needs to be a world class city. And I
was reflecting the other day on the comments of one
of the big ossie sports guys who came over and
had a look at the new stadium in christ Church,
(09:32):
and he said, isn't this fantastic purpose built covered roof.
You can have sports in here all year round anywhether
all of the transport links are here, you can walk
quickly into town and get a drink. And I thought,
you know, Auckland should have been first to have a
facility like that.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
So basically, goodbye, goodbye Eden Park. They've wasted all of
those free tickets inviting all of those boring counselors to
come to all of their concerts. Do you agree to
build something new?
Speaker 2 (10:02):
Yeah, well, I think it's disgraceful that Auckland City doesn't
have a world class stadium, especially a rugby stadium. I mean,
you know, we are the rugby powerhouse of the world
largely still and it's our national sport and big rugby
games are going to be a huge part of Auckland's
sporting life for the phyeseeable future and so it's about
time they got on and made a decision about it.
(10:22):
And again I just can't believe this off fluffing around
about this. You know, I was working for the Helen
Clark Laby government back in nearly two thousands when there's
a huge debate and I thought we got very close
actually to make a decision about building a new flash
waterfront stadium in Auckland. But that seems like ancient history now.
That must have been fifteen sixteen years ago, and here
we are still going around and around in circles trying
(10:43):
to work out where the best location is and what
the sort of dimensions should be. So yeah, my message
to Aalkland is, for christ' sake make a decision. Is
to get ahead and do it.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
Trishess in a mc run right. Thanks guys for more
from Heather Duplassy Allen Drive. Listen Live News Talk se
B from four pm weekdays, or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
Tris Shurson. Shurson willis PR with us tonight. Hey Trish, Hey, Ryan,
good to have you on as always. And Mike Munroe,
former chief of staff to just Sinda Adina's here too, Ho, Mike,
gooda Ryan, Now, what are your thoughts first of all
on rates cap. I mean, Sam has a point that
it's not that I mean, it's not a it's not
(00:20):
a long term solution and certainly not going to help
with infrastructure. Mike, Yeah, I think he's.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Got a point. You know. My concern here is Ryan
that if we put in a cap, put a cap
in place, we just sort of kicked the can down
the road and some future council has to deal with
the you know, with the with the escalating costs which
which have been faced now, and that means, you know,
future rate payers have to deal with it, maybe our kids.
So so I agree with him, it's quite an artificial tool.
(00:49):
And I just think we need to go back at
some point and just look at the whole model of
local government and how we operate it. We've been sort
of mucking around at the fringes for a long time now,
and we have this same arguments of generation after generation
it seems like maybe we need to sort of re
examine the model and how we do local government in
New Zealand and whether it's fit for purposes we go
(01:10):
into these times of enormous infrastructure costs sort of steering
us in the face. And I'd also say something about
the long term plans I think are really important because
where that's where you know, if we do those in
an open and transparent way, we can see where the
costs are going to be sort of a loader on
us over the next three, five, ten years. So I
(01:32):
think a greater emphasis on those plans being really transparent
would help as well.
Speaker 1 (01:36):
Trish, what is the core of the problem with councils?
Are there too many voices? Are there too many people
at the table? What is it?
Speaker 3 (01:45):
I agree with Mike that fundamentally the model is broken.
In my view, in a country of our size and
scale a we've got way too many councils. If you
looked at relative population sizes overseas, you would not have
anywhere near this. That leads to cost and complexity. The
(02:07):
issue for rate payers is the huge uncertainty that is
being caused by exponential rate rises. So just to give
you a feel for the numbers. There is a great
story by Jonathan Killick in the Sunday so Times in
feb they went back and to have a look at
so in Wellington. That council has delivered rate increases of
(02:29):
twelve point eight, eight point eight, twelve point three and
eighteen point five percent in the last four years. The
projected increase means that that rate increase is going to
go up by more than one hundred and seventy five
percent over the next ten years. So you just can't
(02:50):
realistically expect people to be trying to pay a mortgage
and live in their own homes with wild rate increases like.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
That, especially when you don't and Mike, people don't feel
like well, not only do they not feel like it,
it's it's self evident they aren't getting more for it.
In fact, in a lot of cases, they're getting less.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
Yeah, and that's why we need to go back and
look at the model. You know, we've got to ask
some really big questions like take water, for example, is
water so important from a public health point of view
in terms of you know, clean water, wasteboaters, disposal, et cetera.
Maybe the states you look after that, maybe that a
should be fully funded centrally in New Zealand, so that
(03:32):
so that councils can go back to looking after the basics,
the bread and butter issues like you know, like your
rubbish collection and your footpaths and whatever. So if we
go on the same way, we're just going to have
the same pressure year after year because the cost of
running these cities and rebuilding these cities, especially the water infrastructure,
it's going to get higher and higher. So I just
don't see an end in sight if we just go
(03:54):
on the same old way.
Speaker 3 (03:56):
In the meantime, I think there are a couple of
useful things that the government is doing. Don't forget that.
Number one, they are later this year introducing legislation that
will force councils to get back to basics, so that's
in an attempt to stop waste on stuff they shouldn't
be doing. And then number two, they will also every
(04:19):
year make a report available nationally, so if I'm a
rate payer in Auckland, I can go on and essentially
compare my rates and the value for money I'm getting
against someone in Wellington or christ Church. I think that
will be a useful tool for local for people voting
in local body elections to hold elected councilors to account
(04:43):
for the money that they're spending.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
Yeah, hey, we'll leave it here, guys, and come back
and just a second. Tricius and Mike Munroe on the
Huddle tonight. Tricias and Mike Munroe on the Huddle tonight,
thirteen away from six. Winston went pretty hard on Labor
during his State of the Nation speech at the weekend,
which was obviously trish, you know, intentional. Winston doesn't do
anything that he hasn't thought very carefully about. You know,
(05:06):
there often the polls, he's potentially a threat. Winston's just
reminding everyone, Hey, this is what this guy, this is
his record.
Speaker 3 (05:15):
Yeah, I agree. I mean there's no surprises. I don't
think that he went after Labor, and I noted the
PM was asked about that at his post cabinet press
conference for instant and he was very positive about Winston
being the attack dog on Labor on Sunday. But I
do think that both Winston and the Prime Minister have
(05:39):
a point, and that is that it is outrageous what
happened under Labor, the waste, the mismanagement, and they have
left a massive hole that New Zealand has to climb
out of. The problem for New Zealand First and National
an Act is that the electorate is very impatient at
(06:01):
the moment and they won't look kindly on keeping on
blaming labor. They'll say, well, hey, you know, you guys
have been in now for fifteen fifteen months, so it's
a it's a fine line to tread. I think. The
other interesting thing though about Winston's speech and Labor was
if you if you read it on face value, it's
essentially saying New Zealand First will not work with Labor.
(06:27):
He called them a bunch of unreformed losers, I think
if I'm quoting him correctly, So so that was interesting
this far out. Don't forget before the last election he
also ruled out working with labor, but we've never seen
it this far out.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
Yeah, and I think specifically Hipkins he ruled out this
morning as well. Mike, does does this any of this
surprise you? And do you think is this a sign
that Winston actually is a little bit worried about labor?
Speaker 2 (06:55):
Well, yeah, right now, Labor's living in his head rent free.
It seems actually look that this was the orders a
State of the Nation speech, and that was actually false advertising.
It wasn't a state of the Nation speech. It was
the start of the twenty twenty six Labor election campaign.
So sorry, folks, it might only be some March twenty
twenty five, but the twenty six campaign is underway. Look,
you know, so much has been going on Ryan under
(07:17):
this a nept government, with treaty issues and failing health
services and the bunging over the Cook Strait fairies, the
school lunches issues. I guess Winston's fair is that people
are starting to forget about why they rejected labor at
the end of twenty twenty three, so he's just wanting
to give them a refresher on recent history, and he
(07:41):
chose this audience in this state to do that. The
other thing about the speech that amused me is that
about seven days ago we saw Winston the statesman in Washington, DC,
doing a great job as the country's foreign affairs minister,
acting like a statesman, and he comes home and sort
of lowers himself to this level of ranting on about
woke issues, this sort of pathetic, weird obsession that the
(08:02):
political right have with the state of the world. It
just showed you the two faces of Winston, so you know,
in the course of a few days now, and like you,
in many ways it shows you why it's such a
good politician. He can sort of switch from one to
the other quite quickly.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
Yeah, do you think it's a weird obsession. I mean,
clearly it's got some it's got some push through with
in America at least I don't know about here, but
I well, it's almost like a myth that that politicians
talk about it and therefore it exists. I think people
do genuinely feel aggrieved about something, don't they.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
Well, work has just become synonymous with sort of lefties
or liberals, and and you know he's appealing to all
those sort of high ground people and are the racist
and reactionaries and those with you know, a great intolerance
of all things Mardi, that's who he's talking to. That's
a support base. So I think when he uses woke, Yeah,
he's talking more about the sort of lefty liberal agenda,
(08:56):
which he doesn't like, and he's imploring his supporters not
to lie as well.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
Trish the stadium, which where would you prefer? Would you prefer?
We jazz up and tart up Eden Park or head
down to the waterfront.
Speaker 3 (09:10):
Well, well, you know, no one in Auckland. Yeah, no
one in Auckland would argue that trying to put lipstick
on Eden Park is the soul of New zeal That
Auckland needs to be a world class city. And I
was reflecting the other day on the comments of one
of the big ossie sports guys who came over and
had a look at the new stadium in christ Church,
(09:32):
and he said, isn't this fantastic purpose built covered roof.
You can have sports in here all year round anywhether
all of the transport links are here, you can walk
quickly into town and get a drink. And I thought,
you know, Auckland should have been first to have a
facility like that.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
So basically, goodbye, goodbye Eden Park. They've wasted all of
those free tickets inviting all of those boring counselors to
come to all of their concerts. Do you agree to
build something new?
Speaker 2 (10:02):
Yeah, well, I think it's disgraceful that Auckland City doesn't
have a world class stadium, especially a rugby stadium. I mean,
you know, we are the rugby powerhouse of the world
largely still and it's our national sport and big rugby
games are going to be a huge part of Auckland's
sporting life for the phyeseeable future and so it's about
time they got on and made a decision about it.
(10:22):
And again I just can't believe this off fluffing around
about this. You know, I was working for the Helen
Clark Laby government back in nearly two thousands when there's
a huge debate and I thought we got very close
actually to make a decision about building a new flash
waterfront stadium in Auckland. But that seems like ancient history now.
That must have been fifteen sixteen years ago, and here
we are still going around and around in circles trying
(10:43):
to work out where the best location is and what
the sort of dimensions should be. So yeah, my message
to Aalkland is, for christ' sake make a decision. Is
to get ahead and do it.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
Trishess in a mc run right. Thanks guys for more
from Heather Duplassy Allen Drive. Listen Live News Talk se
B from four pm weekdays, or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
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