Erica Stanford: Education Minister on the Auditor-General's report on equity in the education system
October 23, 2024 • 5 mins
The Education Minister hopes curriculum changes gives policymakers more information to work with.
An auditor-general report has found the Ministry of Education lacks information prior to someone entering the NCEA system.
The report suggests it's difficult to identify and tackle equity issues in the education system without more information.
Education Minister Erica Stanford told Mike Hosking students will be assessed to measure progress through structured literacy and maths.
She says they're about to bring in twice-yearly consistent testing.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
So the Order to General has been looking into our
education systems, specifically inequality, basically why some kids do well
at school and others don't. The educational gaps between rich
and poor students are among the largest in the world. Apparently,
the Education Minister Erica Stanford's with us very good morning
to you. Good morning make is does the report make sense?
Is there something to act on here or not?
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Well? Absolutely, and the report is just another report telling
us the same thing that we've known for a really
long time. It crystallizes lots of data points. It talks
about what Aero's been saying for ages about not having
consistent nationwide picture of student achievement and progress. It talks
about a lack of data, evidence and anything that we're doing.
You know. It basically says all of the things that
(00:42):
we've known for a long time that no one's been
able to tackle. But luckily all of the recommendations basically
some of my six point action plan. So that's that's
been one good thing about it.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
The reason I asked the question is he also says
the general line that our students perform well similarly to
or better than other OECD countries been led to believe
we're useless, Are we or not?
Speaker 2 (01:04):
The problem that we've got in New Zealand is that
our top kids are amongst the top of the world,
but we have an enormous, yawning gap between those kids
and the kids at the bottom, and it is the
worst in the world, and it's not getting any better.
The richer getting richer and the poorer getting poorer in
education in this country. And until we have a clear curriculum,
until we have consistent methods of assessing them, until we're
(01:27):
using evidence based teaching methods, until we're investing in our
amazing teachers, until we've got learning supports ordered that the
right child's getting the right support at the right time,
And until we use a much better until we use
best data better, nothing will change. But we already know
that in order to change a close that equity gap,
if you do those things well, then you will make
a real difference, because we've already seen it. And that's
(01:49):
why those six things I just mentioned form the basis
of our action plan.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
Is it the kid, Is it the kid's family, Is
it the kid's school, is it the neighborhood, is the
decile system or is it all of it?
Speaker 2 (02:00):
I've been very clear about the drivers of inequality, and
it is poverty in this country. Your means determine your destiny.
It is almost the one single factor that is the
cause of that yawning gap, which is why when you
turn up to school, we need to cloak you in
that protective factor that is education, and that it doesn't
(02:23):
matter where you go, which school you go to, it's consistent,
a consistent, clear, knowledge rich year by year curriculum that's
comparable with the rest of the world. That the teaching
practice like structured literacy, structured maths is the same everywhere
you go. That we assess you everywhere you go to
measure your progress from year zero right up to year thirteen,
(02:44):
which we don't currently do, which we're about to do
with our twice yearly consistent testing that we're bringing in.
Those are the things that will change the dial. And
the last six years, the only thing we had, the
only thing we had to measure progress across see a
zero to zero to ten was National Standards. Now, whether
(03:04):
you agree with it or not, and it had some problems,
it was the only thing. Labor took it away when
they came into office, and what did they replace it
with Mike nothing correct, absolutely nothing. And this report says
we'll need to have that clear, consistent picture across the
country so we can make.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
Changes while I've got you put your immigration hat on.
The overturning of the ban on partners. Why do we
ban partners? This never made any sense to me. If
you want to come to the country, sure you want
to bring your partner, don't you? Otherwise why would you
come to the country.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
Look again, it sort of labors good intentions but not
really understanding the reality. I can broadly see what they
were trying to do. They were trying to say, well, actually,
we want to make sure when you come here that
you know you are protected and that you are earning
a good amount of money. But the flip side was
that people just weren't able to do that. They were
(03:55):
coming in the country partners, they weren't able to earn
the median wage, they weren't able to work for an
accredit of work, and so they sat here on a
visit of visa. And we know that because we had
an massive number of increased number of visit of easas
over the last couple of years, and that put enormous
pressure on families with only one income. And if you
want people to assimilate into society and make friends and
(04:19):
take that pressure off families, you have to allow them
to work. So bringing back open work rights to partners
so they can move between jobs work for anyone they
liked was just a no brainer makes sense.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
Put on a third hat your survivors in care. Are
you reading the newsroom stuff as in the newsroom website stuff. Yes,
they're calling it a cover up, is it?
Speaker 2 (04:40):
I think that the Royal Commission report made it very
clear that the state for many decades took great steps
to not provide documents, to obsscate, to cover up, to
try and slow things down when things were taken to court.
I mean, that's clear in the report. It's there in
black and white, and there are people that have apologized
(05:02):
for that. So the Psilositor General has apologized, and she's
also talked to me about the failings of Crown law
and the failings of the state, and there will be
more apologies to come.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
And yet the irony is the article suggests that she
needs to go as in the Solicitor General. Would you
argue she was merely doing her job as the representative
of the government and was doing it particularly well, despite
the fact that morally you may look at that and go, well,
the lawyer, the lawyer.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
Well. She has made comments that Crown Law did not
meet expectations, they did not have a survivor focus, and
that they did not meet the expectations of the public.
But any questions about her role are for Minister Collins.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
All right, appreciate time very much. Erica Stamford on a
whole bunch of stuff, so it was lucky we had
her on this morning. For more from the Mic Asking Breakfast,
listen live to news talks they'd be from six am weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
So the Order to General has been looking into our
education systems, specifically inequality, basically why some kids do well
at school and others don't. The educational gaps between rich
and poor students are among the largest in the world. Apparently,
the Education Minister Erica Stanford's with us very good morning
to you. Good morning make is does the report make sense?
Is there something to act on here or not?
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Well? Absolutely, and the report is just another report telling
us the same thing that we've known for a really
long time. It crystallizes lots of data points. It talks
about what Aero's been saying for ages about not having
consistent nationwide picture of student achievement and progress. It talks
about a lack of data, evidence and anything that we're doing.
You know. It basically says all of the things that
(00:42):
we've known for a long time that no one's been
able to tackle. But luckily all of the recommendations basically
some of my six point action plan. So that's that's
been one good thing about it.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
The reason I asked the question is he also says
the general line that our students perform well similarly to
or better than other OECD countries been led to believe
we're useless, Are we or not?
Speaker 2 (01:04):
The problem that we've got in New Zealand is that
our top kids are amongst the top of the world,
but we have an enormous, yawning gap between those kids
and the kids at the bottom, and it is the
worst in the world, and it's not getting any better.
The richer getting richer and the poorer getting poorer in
education in this country. And until we have a clear curriculum,
until we have consistent methods of assessing them, until we're
(01:27):
using evidence based teaching methods, until we're investing in our
amazing teachers, until we've got learning supports ordered that the
right child's getting the right support at the right time,
And until we use a much better until we use
best data better, nothing will change. But we already know
that in order to change a close that equity gap,
if you do those things well, then you will make
a real difference, because we've already seen it. And that's
(01:49):
why those six things I just mentioned form the basis
of our action plan.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
Is it the kid, Is it the kid's family, Is
it the kid's school, is it the neighborhood, is the
decile system or is it all of it?
Speaker 2 (02:00):
I've been very clear about the drivers of inequality, and
it is poverty in this country. Your means determine your destiny.
It is almost the one single factor that is the
cause of that yawning gap, which is why when you
turn up to school, we need to cloak you in
that protective factor that is education, and that it doesn't
(02:23):
matter where you go, which school you go to, it's consistent,
a consistent, clear, knowledge rich year by year curriculum that's
comparable with the rest of the world. That the teaching
practice like structured literacy, structured maths is the same everywhere
you go. That we assess you everywhere you go to
measure your progress from year zero right up to year thirteen,
(02:44):
which we don't currently do, which we're about to do
with our twice yearly consistent testing that we're bringing in.
Those are the things that will change the dial. And
the last six years, the only thing we had, the
only thing we had to measure progress across see a
zero to zero to ten was National Standards. Now, whether
(03:04):
you agree with it or not, and it had some problems,
it was the only thing. Labor took it away when
they came into office, and what did they replace it
with Mike nothing correct, absolutely nothing. And this report says
we'll need to have that clear, consistent picture across the
country so we can make.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
Changes while I've got you put your immigration hat on.
The overturning of the ban on partners. Why do we
ban partners? This never made any sense to me. If
you want to come to the country, sure you want
to bring your partner, don't you? Otherwise why would you
come to the country.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
Look again, it sort of labors good intentions but not
really understanding the reality. I can broadly see what they
were trying to do. They were trying to say, well, actually,
we want to make sure when you come here that
you know you are protected and that you are earning
a good amount of money. But the flip side was
that people just weren't able to do that. They were
(03:55):
coming in the country partners, they weren't able to earn
the median wage, they weren't able to work for an
accredit of work, and so they sat here on a
visit of visa. And we know that because we had
an massive number of increased number of visit of easas
over the last couple of years, and that put enormous
pressure on families with only one income. And if you
want people to assimilate into society and make friends and
(04:19):
take that pressure off families, you have to allow them
to work. So bringing back open work rights to partners
so they can move between jobs work for anyone they
liked was just a no brainer makes sense.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
Put on a third hat your survivors in care. Are
you reading the newsroom stuff as in the newsroom website stuff. Yes,
they're calling it a cover up, is it?
Speaker 2 (04:40):
I think that the Royal Commission report made it very
clear that the state for many decades took great steps
to not provide documents, to obsscate, to cover up, to
try and slow things down when things were taken to court.
I mean, that's clear in the report. It's there in
black and white, and there are people that have apologized
(05:02):
for that. So the Psilositor General has apologized, and she's
also talked to me about the failings of Crown law
and the failings of the state, and there will be
more apologies to come.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
And yet the irony is the article suggests that she
needs to go as in the Solicitor General. Would you
argue she was merely doing her job as the representative
of the government and was doing it particularly well, despite
the fact that morally you may look at that and go, well,
the lawyer, the lawyer.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
Well. She has made comments that Crown Law did not
meet expectations, they did not have a survivor focus, and
that they did not meet the expectations of the public.
But any questions about her role are for Minister Collins.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
All right, appreciate time very much. Erica Stamford on a
whole bunch of stuff, so it was lucky we had
her on this morning. For more from the Mic Asking Breakfast,
listen live to news talks they'd be from six am weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
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