Mike's Minute: The Treaty Principles Bill is a half-baked, deeply divided mess

The Treaty Principals Bill is on its way to the gallows as the select committee came back Friday and suggested it wasn’t getting its support.

It was voted past first reading but it wont get past round two.

What I learned out of it was several things.

1) This country is not up for much of a debate around complex or big ideas. We are myopic in our approach. We hate and we love and middle ground is irrelevant.

There was a venom and aggressiveness to a lot of submissions.

2) From those who submitted that actually knew what they were talking about, as opposed to merely having an opinion, it very quickly became clear there is massive disagreement over interpretation.

These were scholars and lawyers and historians, in other words, "experts". They couldn’t agree.

That to me was the big clue. If the “learned” can't agree, surely that means we need something, legally speaking, to define what we are dealing with.

There is a major case in Christchurch at the moment between Ngai Tahu and the Crown over water rights.

It is in the court because there is nothing definitive in law as to what the Treaty does, and doesn’t, do.

We seem to accept that Parliament is the ultimate court, yet on the Treaty we appear happy to litigate for decade after decade, have a tribunal that is wildly tainted and nothing like a proper court, and each and every time we dabble in this area you and I are picking up the tab.

The other outworking of course is the ongoing grief and angst.

This is a very divided nation. This is not a harmonious nation with an agreed legal stance around the Treaty.

But putting it out to a vote the way Act wanted was a mistake It's too important for that. Pik N Mix democracy never works.

The other thing I learned politically is it should never have seen the light of day if it wasn’t going all the way.

This goes to the Chris Luxon negotiation skills. It should have been either dead before it started, or it got the full treatment.

What we got was a half-baked, deeply divided mess that ended up achieving nothing.

Even those who argue it started the debate are wrong. Because if it's floated for another day we won't carry on where we left off.

We will have to start all over again.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Treaty Principles Bill on its way to the gallows, as

(00:02):
the Select Committee came back Friday and suggested it wasn't
getting its support. It was voted past first reading. Of
course it won't get passed round two. What I learned
out of this was several things. One, this country is
not up for much of a debate around complex and
big ideas. We are myopic in our approach, we hate
or we love, and middle ground as irrelevant. There was
a venom and aggressiveness to a lot of the submissions.

(00:24):
To what else did I learn from those who submitted
that actually knew what they were talking about as opposed
to people merely offering an opinion. It very quickly became
clear there is massive, massive disagreement over interpretation. And but
these were the scholars, the lawyers, the historians, experts. They
couldn't agree. Now that to me was the big, big clue.
If the learned can't agree, surely that means we need

(00:45):
something legally speaking to define what we're dealing with. There
is a major case in Christ Juche at the moment
between Night Tahoo and the Crown over water rights. It
is in the court because there is nothing definitive in
law as to what the treaty does and doesn't do.
We seem to accept that the Parliament is the ultimate court.
Yet on the treaty we appear happy to litigate for
decade after decade, have a tribunal that's wildly tainted and

(01:06):
nothing like a proper court. And each and every time
we dabble in this area, you and I are picking
up the tab. The other outworking, of course, is the
ongoing grief and ants. This is a very divided country
at the moment. This is not a harmonious nation with
an agreed legal stance around the treaty. But putting it
out to a vote the way Act wanted was a mistake.
It's too important for that. I mean, pick and mix
democracy never works. The other thing I learned politically is

(01:28):
it should never have seen the light of day if
it wasn't going all the way. This goes to the
luxe and negotiation skills or lack of them. It was
either dead before it started or it got the full treatment.
What we got with this half baked, deeply divided mess
that ended up achieving basically nothing. Even those who argue
all but it started the debate you're wrong, because if
it's floated for another day, and it may well be,

(01:50):
we won't carry on where we left off. We'll have
to start all over again. For more from the mic
Asking Breakfast listen live to news talks It'd be from
six am weekday, or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio