The Resident Builder podcast: December 15, 2024

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Resident build Up podcast with Peter
wolf Camp from News Talks at Bay.

Speaker 2 (00:19):
The house is a hole even when it's dark.

Speaker 3 (00:24):
Even when the grass is overgrown in the yard, and
even when a dog.

Speaker 2 (00:30):
Is too old to borrow.

Speaker 3 (00:33):
And when you're sitting at the table trying not to
start house scissor.

Speaker 2 (00:39):
Home, even when we leave a band, Even when you're
there alone, the house is.

Speaker 3 (00:58):
A hole, even when those goes, even when you got
around from the world to let you move screamed world
locals vest when them, even when wilber Man, when you're

(01:24):
there alone.

Speaker 4 (01:34):
Well, a very very good morning, and welcome along to
the Resident Builder on Sunday. My name's Pete wolf Camp,
the Resident Builder. And this is a show well basically
all about your place. It's the practical, it's the pragmatic.
It's the things you can wrap your hands around and
go right, I've fixed it. I've done it, I have
to say. And I've thought about this text quite a

(01:54):
bit over the last couple over the last week, so
we had the most well, I think it was the
most delightful text from a woman who said, I'm seventy
three years of age. I don't be fair do a
great deal. But I encountered a situation where there was
a loose screw and a hinge on the kitchen door,
and I heard you comment about, you know, a simple

(02:15):
fix for those sorts of things is basically, you take
the screw out, you put in a match stick, you
smack the top of the match stick off, and you
put the screw back in and nine times out of
ten and to hold it. She said, I did that,
and it's one of the first DIY tasks I've ever completed,
and I just feel really good about it. So there
and this is the thing, and I gosh, I had
the I'll tell you about it later on. Just that

(02:40):
absolute satisfaction of doing something, something that's permeable, something that's tangible,
something that is useful. And that's what the show's about.
So if you are thinking about you know, adding onto
the deck, or doing a little bit of fencing, or
creating some raised planter boxes, or tackling some projects perhaps
inside where you need a freshen up or a rejuvenation

(03:02):
over the Christmas break, and you'd like to do it yourself, well,
I'd love to be to help you out with a
bit of advice on all things building and construction. We
can also talk about I guess, the less tangible, but
ultimately it all comes back to something real in terms
of legislation or engagement with counsel, engagement with professionals, selection

(03:24):
of product, et cetera, et cetera. This morning on the program,
we have no experts joining us but from you, and
we've got no interviews booked, and so it is pretty
much all yours for a blissful two and a half
hours of call it driven conversation. Then we'll jump into
the garden with a redclined past at around eight thirty

(03:46):
this morning, and we'll wrap up and get out of
here at nine o'clock this morning. So join me. Welcome, Welcome, welcome,
looking forward to you calls, your conversation and we'll rip
right into it. So the numbers are eight hundred and
eighty ten eighty if you'd like to call, if you'd
like to send a text, it is nine two nine two,
that's said B's it'd be from your mobile phone. If

(04:07):
you're just looking at the letters, not the numbers. And
if you would like to email me, you are more
than welcome. It is Pete at NEWSTALKS'DB dot co, dot
m Z. It has just ticked over eleven minutes after six.
Let's rip into it. Oh, eight hundred eighty ten eighty
the number in a very good morning to you, Graham.
How are you this morning? Thank you, Peter, Merry Christmas,

(04:29):
thank you, thank you.

Speaker 5 (04:30):
Now I just got I'm gonna build this f a
timber fence, and it's my question is where where is?
Where would you put the boundary? Now, if you're looking
at the end of a timber fence, the end of it, Yes,

(04:52):
you've got you've got one hundred one hundred millimeter post.
Then on the outside of the one hundred meter post,
you've got a fifty millimeter rail bolted on, and then
you have the pailings.

Speaker 4 (05:10):
Yes on that.

Speaker 5 (05:12):
Now where so you've got the post and you've got.

Speaker 4 (05:18):
Yeah, the post. If you did do a railing, yep,
you do the railing outside.

Speaker 5 (05:23):
And the railings bolted on the outside, and then you've
got the pailing. Where would where would you put the
boundary line there?

Speaker 4 (05:32):
Right now, let's go back a step. How do you
know where the boundary is?

Speaker 5 (05:39):
Because they're going to build a h a new house
next door, and and we've got the pins in the ground.

Speaker 4 (05:48):
Fantastic. Okay, So there's there's been a survey by a
registered surveyor and they've put in either the boundary pigs
or they put in the marker, so you know exactly
where the boundary is.

Speaker 5 (05:58):
Which, and I'm going to put the fence up, and
I've got three different scenarios here. Just yeah, sure, the
post and the rail bolted on and then the pailing.

Speaker 4 (06:11):
Yes, I think you'd probably be on reasonably safe. It
seems like the sort of common practice or accepted practice
is that, because you can determine exactly where the boundary is,
the post could sit straddling the boundary, right, So if
it's one hundred b one hundred posts, fifty millimeters of
that is on the neighbor's side, fifty millimeters of it

(06:33):
is on your side. And then in your instance, if
you're going to bolt the railings to the side of
it and then put the pailings on that, all of
that would happen on your side. Ah, yes, this is
how I would view it. Now you could have a
discussion with the neighbor and say, look, my intention is

(06:54):
to you know, my essentially my fence is going to
be one hundred and seventy five millimeters wide in total,
and I'd like to balance that out between both sides.
But I think that most people would go, let's assume
that the post at one hundred millimeters straddles the boundary.
That's what you do? Can I also say? And I

(07:15):
just can't resist this. One of one of my pet
peeves to be fair, is the older I get, the
more I have. But is fixing your rails to the
outside of the post? Why don't you cut them and
nail them in between the posts, saving you fifty millimeters
of precious land? And also I just think it looks
so much neater.

Speaker 5 (07:36):
Oh yes, yes, that's the next one is if I
have the rail on the inside, yes, and the piling
on the outside. That's one hundred plus twenty five yep,
So I still go to the middle of the post.

Speaker 4 (07:51):
Do you think I would? Yes?

Speaker 5 (07:53):
Yes, yes? And just this is the last one. If
you've got the hundred millimeter post and you bolt the
rail on the left hand side, yeah, yeah, and you

(08:15):
have the pailings in between the posts, so it's a
nicer looking fence from both sides.

Speaker 4 (08:25):
Are you put palings on both sides?

Speaker 6 (08:28):
No?

Speaker 5 (08:28):
No, no, No, you have the one hundred millimeter post
looking at the end, and then you bolt a rail
on the left hand side, yes, which is fifty and
then you you nail the pailings in between in between

(08:49):
the posts. So you've got if you on one side,
you've got the post sticking out and then a flat
wall of pailings. On the other side, you've got the
All you see is the rail the rails.

Speaker 4 (09:06):
That would be a rather unconventional way of doing it.
I would have thought that whoever's looking at the rails
with the palings on the inside separated by the posts,
that's to be fair, it's a bit odd.

Speaker 5 (09:21):
I've seen it one look quite okay, hey.

Speaker 4 (09:24):
Look if you like it. I just think what I
would do is I would stick with determine your boundary,
set your posts dead center of the boundary, and then
I don't think any but the best, the best part,
the best thing is going to have to be talk
to your neighbor. It's that's where it should start. Talk
to the neighbor. Go from there, and like I say,

(09:46):
I can't let you go without saying I just I
think whacking your rails on the outside of the posts
is just Ah, it just one of those things. Grinds
make ears. But hey, look it's your property. You do
what you like. But I would stick with the post
in the center. All the best of your graham, take care.

Speaker 6 (10:02):
I wait.

Speaker 4 (10:02):
One hundred and eighty ten eighty much appreciated for the call. Clear.
Good morning to.

Speaker 5 (10:06):
You morning, Peter.

Speaker 7 (10:07):
How are you?

Speaker 4 (10:07):
Yeah, very well in yourself?

Speaker 7 (10:09):
Good, Thank you good. I've got a question about a
scooting board replacement. When I was on holiday earlier in
the year, there was a leak in the shower which
has damaged the skirting board in the hallway. The builders
coming to replace it and suggested using shorter nails and
glue just so that he doesn't hit any water pipes

(10:29):
right in the walls. Yes, I appreciate, but I was
just wondering with the gluing, is that potentially going to
cause a problem And if it leaks again in the
future and I have to replace the skooting again, so
is it normal practice? I don't know.

Speaker 4 (10:44):
Ah, yeah, I mean I'm just curious now about the
leak and if the builder is concerned about hitting the
water pipes, so was the leak caused by a nail
through the water pipe from the skirting or finishing lines.

Speaker 7 (10:59):
No, it was apparently just resilicone fixed it.

Speaker 4 (11:02):
Oh really, yep.

Speaker 7 (11:06):
They spend thousand of well, I spend thousands of dollars
looking for everything, and that's what it came down to.

Speaker 4 (11:10):
You, right, and it was just a silent issue around
the shower tray or something like that. Yeah, okay, yeah, look, no,
there's nothing wrong. I mean what you could do, Like typically,
if you're fixing skirting boards, right, so you've got timber framing,
you've got ten milimeters of plaster board, and most skirtings
are ten milimeters thick, right, so you use a fifty

(11:31):
mili brad which will embed into the timber, into the
timber framing thirty mils. Timber framing typically is ninety millimeters.
So there's if there are wires or services running through
and whoever put them there has has done it correctly,
which is they should be in the middle of the
either the bottom plate or the knog or the stud.

(11:52):
Then typically you've got some space, right. I do know
guys that get a bit lazier or a bit haphazard,
and they use sixty five mill brads for example, and
that of course will go so much further into the
timber and will hit any services that might be running there.
The other thing that sometimes happens is people don't mark
up where their services are right, so you know, maybe

(12:14):
the person doing the plasterboard is not the same person
doing the skirting boards. They don't bother marking. You know,
two water pipes running up to a shower, for example,
and someone wax on the plaster board, doesn't put any
notes on the wall or make some marks or something
like that. Someone comes through, shoots off their skirting boards
and goes straight through the pipe, so that happens heaps.

(12:36):
So look, I think even if they were to use
like a thirty mili brad which you can buy, which
is only going to go ten millimeters in, you would
like to assume that no other contractor puts their services
within ten milimeters of the surface of the framing, in
which case you could do that and a dob of
sealant behind them. Depending on the size of the skirting boards,

(13:00):
like when I've been doing old villas and that sort
of thing, because you've got a much higher skirting board,
often put a bead of sealant on the back of
the top edge of the skirting board before I fix
it in place. Now, if you even take that off
and the sealant or the adhesive does its job, it
will tear off the paper of the plasterboard, so it

(13:21):
does make repair more difficult later on. But ideally you
shouldn't be repairing skirting boards. They stay on, and they
tend to stay on until there's a major renovation. But yes,
if you and look, if they're really really concerned, and
I understand why putting some nails at either side and

(13:41):
just putting a bead of adhesive sealant behind the skirting
board in that area and then press, you know, putting
a block against it to hold it until it sets.
Absolutely fine, brilliant, Thank you very much.

Speaker 7 (13:54):
All right, good luck, Okay.

Speaker 4 (13:55):
Al right here, take care. See then your news talks
there be if you have a question of a building nature,
eight hundred and eighty ten eighty is the number to call,
whether it's fences, whether it's oh gosh, you know, repairs
and maintenance, doing those little tips and tricks. We can
talk about that as well. And it is just on that.

(14:19):
And I mean, I think anyone who's probably either done
a build or serious renovation or been involved in the sector.
The number of times that have I done it? Yeah,
I probably have somewhere along the line. I worked with
a guy years and years and years ago, and for
some reason both of us decided that we would have
slightly different methodologies for marking services and studs. So I

(14:46):
would mark if we were hanging plasterboard right, So I
would mark where the studs are by marking either side
of the stud and putting an X there, I this
is where the stud is. And then if there was
somewhere where the pipes would come down or some wires,
I would do a line either side of where the
pipe was and then a squiggle. All right, That to

(15:06):
me indicated this is where a pipe is. Don't put
a nail through when you're doing your skirtings or your Scotia.
Dan God bless them, was doing exactly the opposite, and
we worked like that for about a day until we
realized that in fact, we were giving each other a
target because he would mark X where there was a
water pipe and I would think that was a stud

(15:28):
and that's a good place to put a nail. Thankfully,
nothing went wrong, but communication is always key. Oh eight
hundred eighty ten eighty the number to call. If you
would have a question of building nature, call us right now,
oh eight hundred eighty ten eighty. You and thewse toooks
it'd be the lines are open. The number to call
eight hundred eighty ten eighty. We're very much in that
phase now where we're thinking, right, one more weekend before

(15:52):
Christmas then potentially, you know, Christmas dawn on a Wednesday Thursday,
does it feel like a good day to start cracking
into a few renovation projects around the house. Maybe not,
But Friday it's free for all, rip into it and
then it's a solid sort of you know, weaken a
bit before some people will go back to work, maybe,
but more there's always a lot of activity. So if

(16:15):
you've got a project that you have in mind and
you'd like to chat about it for a little bit,
oh eight hundred and eighty ten eighty is the number
to call. Just a quick text before we talk to Rudy.
Talking fences. If the neighbor wants a fence and the
other doesn't want the cost, can he the neighbor do
what he likes on his boundary side. Yeah, pretty much,

(16:36):
but you've got to ensure if there's not if you're
not seeking contribution from the neighbor, or you can't get
a contribution, or you don't want to bother then yes,
you can build on your side of the boundary and
pretty much do what you want, saying that in this
instance you do want to seek a contribution, then you

(16:58):
need to follow what's set out in the Fencing Act.
And of course we had Ben Johnson with us a
couple of months oh gosh, it's already a couple of
months ago talking about this particular issue. He's a property lawyer.
It's certainly my intention to get him back onto the program.
We had a number of questions about fencing and the
Fencing Act, but also in terms of the Property Act,

(17:19):
particularly around trees. You know that classic where I mean
even even at home. We planted some olive trees ages ago,
and then you know, without suitable pruning, they will shoot
up to four five meters, which on the boundary is
quite imposing. Rip them out a couple of years ago,

(17:39):
replace them with a hedge. That's a lot easier to
look after. But even that, left to its own devices
can take off and get bigger and bigger, and suddenly
what became a little bit of privacy becomes a real
issue for a neighbor. So we'll get Ben on the
program again next year, along with a number of our
regular contributors like Hamrish Firth, who's the town planner. Actually,

(18:01):
we probably I noticed there was something in the news
this week about a MBA guidance after consultation, So a
lot of consultation on Minister Chris Penk's comments about you know,
maybe we need to wind back some of the changes
to h one around the insallation standards in order to

(18:21):
make housing more affordable, and we did an interview with
Chris Pink. We've done an interview with a number of
people who are saying that's not such a great idea.
Apparently all of the consultation has now ended and there'll
be some guidance issued early in the new year, so
we'll keep an eye on that as well. Oh eight
hundred and eighty ten eighty is the number to call.
We've got a spare line. After we talked to Rudy,

(18:41):
and a very good morning to you, Rudy.

Speaker 8 (18:44):
Yeah, I peeter around you a couple of weeks ago,
probably a bit more than that, about a problem we had.
I'll just remind you we bought a show home of
a franchise builder. Was two years old when we got it.
Brought up with my son. He lives in Farmerston North.

(19:04):
We live in Auckland, so it was like by a
new home and no hussles because we live a long
way away.

Speaker 4 (19:13):
Was this property for both of you?

Speaker 8 (19:16):
No, this is his home, Okay, yep, And we've just
put half the money and he's supposed to be paying
us back very slowly, and he got a mortgage for
his We've had problems with the tile bathrooms where water
has been escaping under the tiles and one point it's

(19:39):
come up a wall and it is on suite and
bubbles of paint off. And in the main bathroom it's
come out from under the tiles at the at the
doorway and was growing growing a mushroom in the carpet.
That's how I noticed. That's that it was a problem.

Speaker 4 (19:55):
And if you said to me the house was ten
fifteen years old, maybe I'd accept that, But you know,
two years kriky okay.

Speaker 8 (20:04):
We on the plans. They were a hob at the
shower at the shower doors, which was never put in
the showers of flush and according to the plans, and
I don't even know whether the actual franchise owner realized.
We thought the showers were only waterproofed to the shower line.

(20:25):
Since then, we're finally found out that the whole bathrooms
have been waterproof as the whole on suite has been waterproof,
which which is good. Okay, But then that begs the question,
you know, why has that membrane failed? You know, you
were talking about the threshold of the doorway should be

(20:46):
should have some sort of water stop prevention at it.
And yeah, so there's a fifteen year durability on the
on the waterproofing. From where I understand the house is
seven years old. How can you enforce one of the

(21:06):
durability warranties?

Speaker 4 (21:10):
Okay, well, I mean the good like given that the
house was constructed, is it seven years ago or two
years ago?

Speaker 8 (21:18):
So it was seven years ago, right, it was a
show home for two years, and he's lived in it
four or.

Speaker 4 (21:23):
Five Okay, you've lived in it for five years or
he has ye, well he has yet. Okay, look go
back seven years and if you look at the application
for the code compliance certificate, it will included in that
and you could go to the council and ask for
the property bag and that will.

Speaker 9 (21:42):
We've got.

Speaker 8 (21:44):
We've got PS whatever, it's called.

Speaker 4 (21:47):
PS three for the waterproofing yep. And attached to that
ideally should be a warranty certificate for the type of
waterproofing system that was installed, So there'll be a document
in there that that says So the person who's done
the waterpreffing will say, I am such and such and
I have done it in accordance with the manufacturer's specification

(22:10):
and attached to that product yep.

Speaker 8 (22:12):
Yeah, Well it names a product on his certificate and
it's got his name and everything on it. But I
haven't seen any attached document to do with the product itself.

Speaker 4 (22:25):
Typically it should be there either way. I think once
you've identified and I would probably identify the name of
the main contractor, who is probably the developer who sold
the show home and the waterproofer, and then I would
If you can work through this yourself, that's fine. Otherwise
you may need to get a lawyer to write a

(22:46):
letter on your behalf saying hey, look, informing you of
your responsibilities under the Building Act, under the Consumer Guarantees Act,
et cetera, et cetera. That the whatever you've done has
failed and you will need to remediate it. And the
remediation in this instance, I think is going to involve
removing pretty much all of the tiles, certainly from the

(23:09):
floor and possibly from most of the walls. If that
removal of the tiles results in damage to the waterproof membrane,
which it's likely to do, then that will need to
come up. Then. I think if you look closely at
how the waterproofing was detailed around the level entry area,
what you'll find is there probably wasn't a water stop there.

(23:32):
You'd need to look on the plans and see whether
one was detailed. If one was detailed and it's not there,
then they have built not in accordance with the plan,
which is a breach of the legislation. And if you
pull up the tiles near the door and also find
that a water stop was not installed there or was
installed incorrectly, then it's basically someone hasn't done their job

(23:54):
right and they should cover the cost. They should either
do the remedial or not or cover the cost.

Speaker 8 (24:00):
They should I know they should, but how do you
enforce it.

Speaker 4 (24:05):
You might find a lot of money going for you know,
unfortunately you may end up just having to spend a
truckload of money and then hoping to get that back.
And this is one of I don't know if the unfortunately,
there's not a better solution than this. Like ideally, what
you'd say is, hey, in this instance, here we've found

(24:27):
some tiling work that's defective, right, we want you to
come back and repair it. They drag the chain or
da da da da da.

Speaker 8 (24:35):
What's been happening?

Speaker 9 (24:36):
Basically?

Speaker 4 (24:37):
Yeah, yeah, you're going to have to get a lawyer involved.

Speaker 8 (24:40):
I think, well, is there any dispute resolution through? There
is actually guarantee?

Speaker 4 (24:49):
Ah? Now is there a Master Builders guarantee?

Speaker 8 (24:52):
There is, but we're spoken to them and they, you know,
bad workmanship is only covered for three years apparently of.

Speaker 4 (24:59):
Course after the data of construction.

Speaker 8 (25:02):
Yeah, is it bad workmanship or is it a product failure?
You know? How do you know without pulling it apart?

Speaker 4 (25:12):
Right? Is see, waterproofers are not a restricted trade, so
you can't go to the LBP scheme. I wonder whether

(25:32):
if you can find the LBP details of the person
that was let's say, who's who's on the Certificate Code
Compliance application as being the LBP for carpentry right, so
they're the main contractor if they happen to be an
LBP right so licensed building practitioner. I wonder whether going
to the LBP Disciplinary Board would be worthwhile because it

(26:00):
doesn't relate to work under the Code of Ethics, because
that's only been you can we'll leave that to one side.
You could go to the LBP board and say, look
this LBP because they were there is essentially the manager
of the project and so other people are under It's
it's tenuous, but it might put a little bit of

(26:21):
pressure on the LBP to put pressure on the waterproofer
and tyler to sort out you know, their their their
work right and their poor work. Because I think in
this instance there's no question like is it a maintenance issue? No,
it's not, is it?

Speaker 6 (26:38):
Is it?

Speaker 8 (26:38):
Paul Wood that that that've come up with, uh earthquake
because some Palmers and north they have earthquakes, so you
know it's from an earthquake that's lack of maintenance as
in as in in some places a silicon failed maybe

(26:58):
and some ground has has fallen out.

Speaker 4 (27:01):
Shouldn't mat but doesn't many.

Speaker 8 (27:04):
Membrane should be the the stop gap, you know, So
that's why the membrane is there sort of penetrates then
it's contained by the membrane so it can't get to
the structure. Am I correct in that?

Speaker 4 (27:20):
Yeah? Look, I think unfortunately you're going to have to
go and get some legal advice and get a lawyer
involved with the potential to you know, enforce the repair.
May also be worthwhile getting some independent advice, like from
a registered building survey Again, that's going to cost you

(27:41):
to get repair a report done that. Would you know
someone who could have a look through the plans, see
what was detailed on the plan, maybe make an assessment
as to whether or not it was built in accordance
with the plan, and provide that technical information to the
lawyer to impose it. Do you know whether the developer

(28:03):
has insurance on the building?

Speaker 8 (28:06):
The world no insurance. The franchise owner, yeah, says he
has no insurance. Okay, so that's where he's told me. Okay,
registered building surveyors.

Speaker 4 (28:19):
So if you just search for building surveyors dot co,
dot NZ, dot org, dot z or just search for
in z I b S in IB just type that
in as a Google search. What it'll do is it'll
bring up the New Zealands to the building surveyors. It'll
have contractors in people who are licensed in your area,

(28:41):
so you can search by region, you know, reach out
to a couple of them and get them to come
do it. They could do a report based on what
they see or if there's a need to pull up
a couple of tiles. But then, of course the bathroom
won't function, you know, once you start doing some destructive work.

Speaker 8 (29:00):
But it might anymore, so as soon as we start
distracting it.

Speaker 4 (29:04):
Were Yeah, then then it's inoperable for a period of time.
It's a genuine fault, let's say, or there's a gap
in the system where you know, in these instances where
there's clearly work that's been done which hasn't been done
to the code or to standard has failed, and then

(29:26):
the redress for the homeowner or the is so tortuous, right,
you know, it could be another year before you got
any sort.

Speaker 8 (29:35):
Of Well it's been four months so far and we've
got nowhere, We've got around the circles.

Speaker 4 (29:39):
Yeah, four months, you know, Yeah, frustrating, look really frustrating.
I think you're going to have to get a bit
heavy with it and get a lawyer involved. Okay, thanks,
I appreciate the update, and please stay in touch. All right,
all the best, take care thing. It is enormously frustrating.
I get that. And look, as a contractor, you know,

(30:03):
we're if we're really honest, we've all probably I speak
for myself and probably for most others being involved in
situations where things haven't gone well right, and so there
is a need to redress and as difficult as it is,
the best thing to do is just get on to
it and get it fixed. But it also just a
question or a comment, and a call like this raises

(30:25):
so many issues, particularly around maybe we do need to
move to compulsory insurance for people undertaking building work. You
can ask for it, but it's not an absolute requirement,
you know, because in this instance here, if for example,
the waterproofer had insurance public liability contract works that sort

(30:48):
of thing, then in the event that there's a failure,
and there is in this case, the homeowner could then
go to the insurer and go it's a problem with
work that's been insured by you. You're going to fix it,
and you put pressure on the insurer to come and
fix it. But we don't have to have compulsory insurance

(31:11):
in New Zealand. Be very interesting to see over the
next couple of years if that becomes something that gets
introduced into the building legislation. Happy to take a call
on that. Oh eight, one hundred and eighty ten eighty
is the number to call. Actually, someone says text through
the waterproofing membrane may not have failed and it may
in fact have done its job, and the water is

(31:32):
tracking between the tile and the membrane drew due to
the lack of water stops very gray area and it
wouldn't start any work until all of the parties are notified.
Sensible advice, I agree, because there is you know, when
you do have work that's been done and it's not
up to standard or there is a fault with it,
there is a you have to give the contractor the

(31:55):
opportunity to remedy. So it's quite clear and the legislation.
You can't just go ahead, for example, in Rudy's case,
get someone and strip out all the tiles, redo the
waterproof redo the tiles. It's going to cost you twenty
grand and send a bill to the contractor. The contract
has no obligation to pay that if they haven't been

(32:16):
if they haven't had the opportunity to remedy in the
first place. People have been caught out by that as well.
Six forty two Here at Newstalk SEB the lines are open.
The number to call eight hundred eighty ten eighty. We've
had a couple of texts from people reporting a little
bit of shaking in Wellington and you're absolutely right. So
at six thirty two this morning there was a small

(32:39):
ish quake estimated magnitude of about four point five eight
kilometers from Lower Hut at around six thirty two a m.
This morning. Not unusual, Not well, how can you expect
something that we know is going to happen at some
stage or call it unexpected? So but yes, there was

(33:01):
certainly a wee jolt that will get you out of
bed and have you looking nervously around the house potentially.
At around six thirty two this morning, a couple of
texts have come in with regard to the waterproofing, one
which you know can get really problematic. I mean the
other thing, Wow, when it works well, it does work well,

(33:22):
and I'm thinking, you know, I mean we did waterproofing
in a shower twenty odd years ago. No issues right
fully tiled shower with a hob with an upstand, admittedly,
and that does make a bit of a difference. Brush
on application tiled over silicon got replaced I don't know,

(33:42):
four or five years ago. It'll be interesting when it's
sort of reaching the end of its life to pull
it apart and see whether there's been any moisture ingress
through the waterproofing membrane. But done well, no problems whatsoever,
Morning Peak. In regard to the waterproofing issue, this is
a prime example of not allowing self certification and the
need for BCO's building consent authorities to be involved in

(34:08):
all points of construction. Yes, and would remote inspections via
videos of essentially using the video on your camera and
the artis in software that's being developed by brands allow
an inspector to see enough of the waterproofing to feel

(34:28):
confident that it's going to perform for the required time
or more than the requiet time. Another text on this,
Why is New Zealand so backwards when there is no
insurance for building You would have thought it was a
no brainer and common sense. You know, increasingly I'm tending
to agree with you. I think it seems like a straightforward,

(34:53):
practical way of ensuring that when there is a problem,
it doesn't become even more of a problem for the
homeowner to resolve. You know, where things are delayed, delayed, delayed,
dragged out, dragged out, no resolution, very complex, very stressful
potentially for the owners that if there was insurance in

(35:16):
place that you essentially don't need to bother with trying
to get the contractor back. You just go back to
the insurer. Will that add cost, Yes, because insurance is
expensive and that's going to filter through to the cost
of each build, But it would give some surety to homeowners,
and right now it's not compulsory. And then for contractors,

(35:38):
you know, if as a contractor, the insurer finds that
you have a track record where you're being called back
because your work is not up to standard, then I
would imagine that insurers will just decide that you're not
a good client and so you won't get insurance. And
if you can't build without insurance, it's a way of
getting rid of poor contractors from the industry. You're right,

(36:02):
it is a simple solution, which is probably why we
don't do it. Oh eight hundred and eighty ten the
number to call. The lines are open. Give me a
call now. We're talking all things building construction. If you've
got a project on, if you're eyeing up the summer break,
thinking great, this is my opportunity. I'm going to crack
into extending the deck orps like our first caller Graham,
looking at doing some fencing. Perhaps it's just a bit

(36:23):
of a refresh. Maybe it's some outdoor painting. All of
these sorts of things. We can talk about your summer
projects now on the program. Oh eight hundred and eighty
ten eighty Backnam your news talk CB open line on
all things building and construction. And Lynn, thank you very
much for your text. So here's the text. Hey, peet,
any chance you could do a shout out of happy

(36:45):
birthday to my dad Warwick the builder, ninety two years
old today still helps me with all the fix ups
around the house. And love's listening to your show. It
would be an honor to be fair Lynn to say
happy birthday to Warwick at ninety two years of age,
obviously still active, still engaged. Hopefully you don't let them

(37:05):
get up on the roof and clean out the spouting
and those sorts of things. That would be a bit silly,
but that sounds delightful. So I was just trying to
do some numbers in my head. So at ninety two,
basically almost the same age as my mum, or she
will be in January, So born nineteen thirty three, thirty
something like that, and gosh, would have been building in

(37:30):
the early nineteen fifties would have been a fascinating time
to be building. I mean, if we're looking at New
Zealand construction, we tend to regard that as sort of
the best that we ever built. If you look at
you know, state houses built post war, remove framing, matti floorboards,
timber joinery, weather boards on the outside, maybe concrete tile roofs,

(37:50):
that sort of thing, robust, straightforward, simple structures that stood
the test of time, because there's still a heap of
them around And Warwick may have been building at that
time as well, might have been building some of those
brand new suburbs that were popping up in areas like
depending on where you are in the country, if you're
in Auckland, you know Pamure and maybe new Lynden and

(38:11):
those sorts of areas. So anyway, Warick our very happy
birthday to you on your ninety second birthday today. That's delightful, England.
Thanks very much for your text. That's fantastic. Just with
regard to a couple more texts on the whole waterproofing thing,
because people do get a bit freaked out about it.
Tile over a shower tray, I would never rely on

(38:33):
a membrane, see like, that's not my experience. Over the years.
I've done plenty of membranes and had lots of tiling
done over membranes, and probably in more than ninety nine
percent of the cases no failure whatsoever. So in that sense, no,
I wouldn't agree with that statement at all. I have

(38:54):
complete confidence in membranes when they're done well, and you know,
if they're done either in accordance with the manufacturer's specifications,
done by someone who is an approved applicator of the
product as well, and then done with the correct detailing
in terms of the waterproofing. Because you can just with

(39:15):
regard to that earlier caller as talking about the leaking
out of the shower tray or out of the shower
area onto the floor, that will almost one hundred percent
be because there's no water stop which has been installed
water stop is a little either aluminium angle or something
like that that's installed to separate the waterproofing membrane from
inside a shower enclosure from the waterproofing membrane that you

(39:37):
might put on the underside of the on the on
the floor for the rest of the fully tiled shower area.
If you're tiling all of the floor between the if
it's a level entry shower, you put in a shower stop.
If you've got a hob it's a slightly different detail.
You can still add a water stop to it. But
interesting it's not there in the Waterproofing Association's guides, which

(39:59):
I actually had to read through the other day in
the same way that in tidying U might.

Speaker 2 (40:05):
Yield.

Speaker 4 (40:05):
News Talk CB Welcome back to the program today on
the program it's all you, So there is I've got
nothing lined up in terms of experts or interviews or
anything like that, so plenty of time to take your
calls this morning on the Resident Builder on Sunday here
at News Talk z B. So if you've got a
question of a building nature, and I do get that

(40:25):
sense that you know, people are starting to gear up
for right what sort of I've got a bit of
time at home over the Christmas break. Yes, I know
I want to take a bit of a break, but
maybe I also get a chance to sort out some
work on the deck, maybe do some repairs and maintenance,
and you know, maybe something inside the house, possibly something

(40:48):
outside the house. So if you've got a project in
mind for the Christmas break, then and you want to
talk about a little bit of advice, whether it's the
talking earlier about fencing, for example, we've had a couple
of questions on waterproofing and warranties and contract tradespeople. Then
we can talk all of these things and more on

(41:10):
the program this morning. So the lines are open. The
number is eight hundred and eighty ten eighty. Also, of
course you can text, which is nine to nine two
from your mobile phone, and if you'd like to email me,
you're more than welcome to do that. It is Pete
Atnewstalk zb dot co dot nz. In fact, I had
to log into my emails, my work emails yesterday ahead

(41:32):
of joining Tim Beveridge as a guest panelist in the
afternoon and sent away a couple of someone had requested
some copies of the owl Box plans. So I think
Over the course of the year we've talked about the
sort of the number of owls that are making their

(41:52):
way into urban areas. Again, it's related to building in
a sense, and I've made a couple of owl boxes
and Roud very kindly sent me a number of different
plans for owl boxes for either smaller hours like rural
more pork or four larger owls like this. There is
a population of German barn owls which have become native

(42:14):
endemic to the Northland and spreading south. But anyway, I
sent off some plans for that. I think this year
I've probably sent away I don't know ten or fifteen
people have inquired about plans for ol box. That would
be a lovely wee DIY project. Over the summer as well,
I've made a bunch for friends and now I've got

(42:35):
to make some slightly larger ones as well. Eight hundred
and eighty ten eighty is the number to call if
you've got a building question of any nature, or you
want to talk about our boxes. To be fair, knock
yourself out, and you know, maybe you want to think
about giving gifts for Christmas. I bought by the other day.
I suddenly realized I didn't have a decent compass, you

(42:58):
know for scribing circles and that sort of thing, so
I bought a decent I had some little ones that
look like the ones that you had in your school pencil,
but insufficient, not not up to the standard that I needed.
So you might be looking at buying tools for Christmas.
I say, I popped into the Devonport Timber to picked
something up the other day and they had the good

(43:20):
Rules folding rulers designed by a Kiwi sort of for
Kiwi conditions. They're a nifty little actually there there you go.
If you're thinking about someone who's got everything and they
don't have a good rule And I'm not endorsing it necessarily,
I just think they're a really useful little bit of
kit and New Zealand design which is nifty. So when
you use them, they are exactly ten mil thick, which

(43:42):
is the size of jibboard typically or one type of
jib board. They are forty five mil wide, which is
typically our framing, and they're only six hundred long, which
is nifty as well. Anyway, something for the Christmas stocking,
oh eight hundred might have to drop a hand oh
eight hundred eighty ten eighty is the number to call
if you've got building questions that would be awesome. Eight

(44:03):
hundred eighty ten eighty is the number to call. Thank
you for the text. I've heard you say this morning
that you'll not be speaking to any experts. Should route
be offended, Yes, but he'll be all right. I'm talking
about building experts. I'm not talking about gardening experts, which
he is, and he will be joining us at around
eight point thirty this morning. Oh, eight hundred and eighty

(44:24):
ten eighty the number. Hello, Lydia, Linda, good morning.

Speaker 10 (44:28):
Good morning, good morning. I'm getting some renovations done in
my house and it's the first time I've ever done it. Well,
I'm getting my kitchen done because it's old and dilapidated,
so they're going to everything out, you know, the old
cabinets and the stove and everything, and I'm also going
to replace, you know, once I've done that, the jibbing,
and you do it all nice and put the news

(44:50):
to cabinets and also put a pocket door in for me. Yes,
I was wondering do I need a consent for that?

Speaker 4 (44:57):
By what you're saying, it doesn't sound like you do,
so the things that would likely trigger a building consent
are if, for example, you said, oh, look, i'd really
like the kitchen window to be a wider, but doesn't
sound like you're doing that where they're installing the pocket door,
which you mean like a cavity slider.

Speaker 10 (45:19):
Just between my kitchen and my dining room.

Speaker 4 (45:21):
Okay, So what you would want the builder to be
able to tell you is whether or not the wall
is load bearing.

Speaker 6 (45:28):
It's not. Okay, it's all right.

Speaker 4 (45:31):
So if it's not load bearing, then open, you know,
creating a bigger opening, because obviously a door will have
an opening of about eight fifty millimeters for a door
to be installed in there, well, that's what's there already.
You're going to widen that to about one point five
meters something like that. It'll need a lintel for the span.
But because it's not load bearing, doesn't trigger a requirement

(45:52):
for a building consent. So no, I think you can
do all of that work without a consent. What I
would suggest, and what gives real surety to you know,
maybe someone who's looking at the property in the future
is take sometographs, put them into a file. And even
though the various contractors don't necessity. It's not necessary. It's

(46:12):
not restricted building work, so they don't have to give
you a record of works. You could just ask for
a brief description. So for example, the electrician will come,
I presume to fit new appliances. They will give you
a coc at the end of the job. Keep that.
If the plumber is coming to do some work, you
might just say, look, could you give me a producer

(46:33):
statement for the plumbing work that you've done. If the
builders replacing some plaster board, you know, it might be
good opportunity to add some insulation. Oh no, actually, don't
add insulation because you do need a building consent for that. Nuts,
but that's the rules.

Speaker 6 (46:49):
You know.

Speaker 4 (46:50):
Maybe the builder at the end of the job, along
with their invoice, gives you a brief record of works
and you just keep all of that in a file.
And then if someone says, oh, it's a new kitchen,
you can go, yeah, it's a new kitchen, and here's
some documentation to say that it was done in accordance
to the building code, even if it didn't need a consent.

Speaker 10 (47:08):
It's just one other thing. I was reading through their
contract and they actually want me to pay for the
excess on on this on the insurance claim, which is
kind of weird, isn't it.

Speaker 4 (47:20):
That's interesting? Just unpack that for me. So the contractor
is this in the kitchen and the builder okay, so
the builder has insurance m hm. And but in the
now do they want you to pay the excess now

(47:40):
or do they want claim? Okay?

Speaker 6 (47:44):
And what's happens?

Speaker 10 (47:46):
I don't know that yet. I just am about to
send them. I only got the contract stuff on Friday,
so I'm about to send them an email and ask
them about that, because I think it's unusual.

Speaker 4 (48:00):
I agree, I've never heard it before. But at the
same time, and I have to say, I'm kind of
into my about it. One great that they've got insurance,
right because right now you don't necessarily have to have insurance.
So the fact that they do have it, and ideally
they will, they would prove that they had it by

(48:20):
sending you a copy of their insurance certificate. See, that
would be something I'd ask, Okay, if you've got insurance,
just prove it right, and it should be easy for
them to prove here's my insurance certificate and then ask
what the excess is.

Speaker 10 (48:39):
Yes, I was thinking that the excess was more than
actually the work was required. Oh no, you don't know
what the existence.

Speaker 4 (48:45):
No you wouldn't, but i'll tell you where where I'm
slightly I'm sitting on the fence about it. In a sense,
I'm really delighted that the contractor's got insurance and is
It doesn't sound like an wow to me. It doesn't

(49:07):
sound like an unreasonable request, as long as you know,
like often the premium the excess might be. I don't know,
maybe for building works it's more than what it might
be for home insurance. My home insurance, I think my
excess is five hundred and fifty dollars. I have other
policies where my excess is much higher. So I think

(49:29):
ask for a copy of the certificate, ask for an
indication of what that excess is going to be, and
then you can make a fully informed decision from there.

Speaker 10 (49:37):
Because I was thinking, you know, a builders excess would
be much more.

Speaker 4 (49:41):
Than a homemade would I would expect.

Speaker 10 (49:43):
So yeah, yeah, yeah, And I mean the job is
about twenty k if if the work because it's small kitchen,
if it was twenty K and I got an excess
of twenty k that we had.

Speaker 4 (49:57):
Yeah, that's right in this Yeah, look, get the information.
I just again, part of me is just so delighted
that that contract isn't. Increasingly are being able to offer
insurance to their clients, that is, you know, by an
insurance company rather than buy association. I think it's great,
but get more information. But it sounds like they're very thorough,

(50:19):
which is really really good as well.

Speaker 10 (50:21):
Yes, thank you very much.

Speaker 4 (50:24):
I presume you're not getting the new kitchen for Christmas.

Speaker 10 (50:28):
Oh no, it's all enjoy Thank you, Take care.

Speaker 4 (50:34):
How fascinating. That's very interesting. I'll be interested in your
opinion too on that.

Speaker 6 (50:38):
That is.

Speaker 4 (50:41):
Well, as a contractor, I'll offer I'll include this project
under my insurances, but you would need to pay the
excess in the event that we need to make a claim.
Be interested in your thoughts. Eight hundred eighty ten eighty
the number to cour We'll look at talking with Mark
after the break, and a bunch of interesting texts that

(51:04):
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(52:10):
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talk ZB yeahr news talk ZB. We're taking your calls
on all things building and construction. Pete. I disagree, peet.
If the contractor has to make a claim for the failure,

(52:30):
it's because he she has made a mistake. They should
own it and pay the excess, assuming the client has
already paid for the job. Regards from Jay, I get
where you're coming from.

Speaker 6 (52:40):
Jay.

Speaker 4 (52:40):
I'm there's something about sort of I mean, what would happen.
I'm just thinking about Linda and her comments about the
contract offering insurance for the works of this builder, who's
going to be coordinating the installation of the kitchen, doing
any work that's required, the enabling work, let's say, to

(53:04):
do it, and then saying, look, I've gotten themsurance policy
and if you accept the excess, then well will include
you in the insurance policy. If not, I don't know
what would happen if they wouldn't. I'm just delighted that
they've got one. And that's what's inclining me to say,
you know what, if it's reasonable, would you take that risk?

(53:24):
Eight hundred eight take your calls on this. Eight hundred
eighty ten eighty is the number to call, righty oh, Mark,
A very good morning to you. How are you this morning?

Speaker 6 (53:34):
Yeah, good tanks, season's greetings and to you. Now. I'm
doing a little job on my daughter's shower where she
has a shower of the bath attached to the bar.
There is a panel off which the garass stoor hinges. Yes,
it's probably fifteen years old. A silicone has let go
where the panel attaches to the top of the bar.

(53:56):
It's got a little bit of sideways pressure on it,
not a lot. I've been to the local hardware store
and had a look at your silicones. There's such a range.
But what I've want some advice on is the best
silicone adhesive.

Speaker 4 (54:12):
Yes, because they yeah, you can get adhesive, so you
can get silicons, and then you can get some sealants
which are also adhesive.

Speaker 6 (54:23):
That's what I'm looking for. That's what you recommend.

Speaker 4 (54:30):
And this is to reseal the shower lining or to
bond that extrusion to the wall.

Speaker 6 (54:40):
It's got a glass panel. The wall has no problems here,
it's just where it attaches to the top of the bath.
It's got a chrome, yes, a little walnut, and the
chrome sits on the bath yep, just ceiling that and mature.

Speaker 4 (54:57):
But that that extrusion that sits on the bath lip
that doesn't need adhesion.

Speaker 6 (55:05):
At the moment. It's got some sorder sell a cone
on it, yes, and I'm just looking to replace that.
But it obviously blues it as well.

Speaker 4 (55:18):
But when you replace the sealant, you're not necessarily going
to be ceiling that junction between the bath and the
extrusion because that's staying in place. So you've removed the
showers screen completely.

Speaker 6 (55:32):
I just want to replace the sealant adhesions.

Speaker 4 (55:35):
That you can see, so you're not removing the shower screen. No, no, no, okay,
then I would be quite comfortable saying, look, just get
a good quality bathroom sealent product. You don't necessarily need
to worry too much about the adhesion because it's not
doing that. They tend to perform a little differently in

(55:56):
the sense that, from my experience, the ones that have
a sealant in them might not be as easy to
strike off and smooth out. So a good quality bathroom sealant,
so it'll it'll specify the fact that it's for bathrooms
and wet areas. Ideally there should be there are some
out there that have mold inhibitors included in them. That

(56:18):
would be an advantage, is it? And I presume it's
okay just to go white.

Speaker 6 (56:23):
Yeah, well yeah, yep, just white.

Speaker 4 (56:27):
And then do you have a particular technique for striking
off the sealant.

Speaker 6 (56:33):
I've done a bit of stuff like that in the past,
but not for a few years. I've got one of
those little tools for taking out though yep, the.

Speaker 4 (56:40):
Old yes, because there's quite a lot of discussion, you know,
like typically for a long time, the approved applicated tool
was your finger, right, and so you tended to sort
of moisten your finger generally by kind of spinning on
it and then just using that to strike off the sealant.
That's not a good way of doing it, so I

(57:03):
have to say, and I know plenty of got that
do their ceilant and they don't mask up either side,
and they've just got a little tool. You can buy
them in packs. They're like a little yellow actually silicon
pad with different radiuses on them. So they're pretty cheap,
to be fair. And I've got a I bought a pack,

(57:24):
and I've got a couple sitting in my toolbox and
a couple in the back of the ute, and that
sort of thing. So that when you so you apply
the sealant, then use a little bit of detergent, just
household detergent, diluted down so maybe one percent in a
in a little spray bottle, and then spray over the
top of it, and then use these little tools to

(57:45):
strike it off and you'll get a really neat finish
without introducing bacteria into it by having a wet finger basically,
So yeah, and if you're a bit unsure about it,
and I still in many cases, like I siliconed a
junction between a bench top and the tiles, for example,
a little while go, I will just I will still

(58:08):
mask off, and that gives me a nice clean line,
you know, put this, do the masking, put the ceilant in,
strike it off, and then peel the masking tape off
and you get a really nice clean line that way.

Speaker 6 (58:23):
So when you look at the variety of available, would
you recommend one above the others?

Speaker 8 (58:31):
Can you?

Speaker 4 (58:32):
Certainly? For look, I know that sud al So s
O U D A L. Is a brand that I've
used for a long time. Sudle's very good. Gorilla gripper
is part of that as well, So Gorilla does some sealants.
If you went with either of those two, I'd be
very happy. All right, all the very best, Okay, you

(58:54):
take care, thanks Mark, and good luck with that. And again,
it sounds like one of those ones where it's Dad
coming in to help out again, which is awesome. Oh,
eight one hundred eighty ten eighty is the number to call.
M texts quite a few texts on this whole insurance thing.
Quite genuinely, I've never heard of that sort of offer.

(59:16):
So just to refresh if you just joined the program
after the news, we were talking with Linda who's about
to do a basically a new kitchen, so small remodeling
of the kitchen area, taking out a door or opening
up and opening to put in a pocket slider or
a cavity slider, stripping off some lining, replacing the lining,

(59:37):
and then having the new kitchen involved. So there's the
kitchen installer, there's the plumber, there's the electrician, and there's
the main contractor who is the builder. And the builder
has said, look, I can offer you insurance or include
you in my insurance policy for this, but you have
to agree to pay the excess in the event that
I need to make a claim. Is that reasonable or not?

(59:59):
Your thoughts? Eight hundred and eighty ten eighty is the
number to call Pete. I've had building work done and
being charged for the insurance. So the builder will make
a p on what he pays on an annual basis,
so this profit will pay for any excess. That's another
way of doing it is that maybe in the quote
the builder notes down along with you know, his time, materials,

(01:00:20):
potentially overhead margin, and this is what my insurance costs
me per year. And I mean you could do this,
couldn't you? Isn't it? As a contractor? You go, okay,
So my insurance fees are ten thousand dollars a year, right,
that probably wouldn't be unrealistic for comprehensive insurance. Let's act
ten thousand dollars. That gives me cover up to a

(01:00:41):
million dollars for public liability or contract works insurance. At
ten thousand dollars, that's about two hundred dollars a week.
We're on the job for two weeks, So I'm going
to charge you four hundred dollars extra on the cost
of the job because I've got insurance. And by the way,

(01:01:02):
he's my insurance certificate, so you can see that I
actually do have insurance. Is that reasonable?

Speaker 11 (01:01:09):
Oh?

Speaker 4 (01:01:09):
Eight hundred and eighty ten eighty the number to call.
A bunch of texts on that will come back and
have a look. I agree with the insurance excess if
it covers the unforeseen additional cost ie to fix a
house corner, you might find you have to replace the
whole of the exterior wall, fix the ceiling in a bath,
but you have to replace the rotten floor. Now that
would be a can of worms, wouldn't it. Pete, You

(01:01:32):
shouldn't let a builder anywhere near your house if he
doesn't have an insurance policy covering at least all risk
if he doesn't. If he doesn't it causes damage or
loss to your own property. It may not cover what
if he caused a fire. Congratulations a builder for actually
having insurance. It's somewhat mind blowing. The fact that we're
even thinking like that is it indicates where we're at. Yeah,

(01:01:54):
I agree. I think it's great that they have more
and more contractors are embracing the insurance and it's a
cost to the business and that's got to be passed
on to the client. So that's got to be a
fair an equitable way of doing exactly that. Brett, thank
you very much for your call. Eight hundred eighty ten
eighty is the number to call. Eight hundred eighty ten

(01:02:15):
eighty nine two nine two. You obviously know the text
number because we get in some really good texts. So
nine two nine two, and if you'd like to email me,
it's Pete Atnewstalk SB dot co dot n Z seven
point thirty two will take your calls. Eight hundred eighty
ten eighty the number your new stalks, he'db we're talking
all things building and construction, and I guess the stuff
that goes along with the building in construction as well.

(01:02:38):
So if you've got a question or a comment that
you'd like to add to that, the lines are open
and the number to call is eight hundred eighty ten eighty.
Now this is fair. I mean, I'm getting a lot
of texts on this. It's it's fascinating. Where this conversation
started from. Was Linda who call talking about a bath
a kitchen renovation that she's about to do. The main

(01:03:00):
contractor in this case of the builder has said, look,
I can include you in the insurance. So I have insurance.
I can nominate you, I presume in the insurance policy,
but you have to agree to pay the excess. Now
at the stage, we don't know what that figure is,
whether it's five hundred dollars or five thousand dollars and
that would obviously make a difference. So in the event

(01:03:23):
that there is some sort of failure with the job,
it could the cost of remediation would be covered by insurance.
And the builder is saying to the client, I'll do
that if you agree to pay the excess. Now it
would be useful to know what the excess is, obviously,

(01:03:44):
but anyway, I've had a bunch of texts on this.
M pete no way referring to the insurance fee reduce
their hourly rate if they suggest their customer pays for
their insurance. I mean, you've got to cover these costs somewhere.
In fact, I saw an invoice from a contractor the
other day that had, you know, essentially labor materials, and

(01:04:09):
they attached a copy of all of the invoices for
the material so you could actually see that they had
been purchased and for that job, which I think is
good and transparent. And then it was they'd been open
about what their margin is, so they added their margin
to the cost of materials, and then included as a
fixed fee was essentially administration fee that was added to

(01:04:33):
the cost of the invoice as well, just reflecting the
fact that there's work that's done off site that relates
to the project hasn't been charged out as an hourly rate.
So you know, a contract is not charging for being
at home doing the paperwork. There's just a fixed fee
that was included in that, which is kind of an
interesting way of doing it as well. So in this case,

(01:04:57):
this texture is saying, no way that you should be
charging for the insurance. It should be included in the
hourly rate. But then the problem becomes, let's say you
do that, right, so your hourly rate includes insurance, and
someone you submit a quote. Someone looks at your hourly rate,
which might be two or three dollars an hour more

(01:05:20):
over the cost of a job, and says, no, I
don't want to go with that contractor they're too expensive,
not knowing that it includes the insurance. So that's the
problem with including it in your hourly rate. I would
argue customer playing for poor workmanship. You're kidding, what about trade,
standing up and taking some responsibility. I don't think that's
the intention of it. I think that it recognizes that

(01:05:41):
every now and then things can go wrong. That's why
we have insurance, right. I don't think it's paying for
poor workmanship. I don't think the contractor intends to do
a poor job because they figure that well, look, when
it all goes to goes ballly up, my insurer will
come in. They'll find that they won't get insurance. So

(01:06:02):
I don't think that's the right end of the stick. Pete,
you're hourly, here we go. Your hourly rate should include
all of the overheads. The insurance should not be added
as an extra. That sounds like a rip off to me,
double dipping just to wind up your profit or not. See,
I'm not convinced. Oh eight hundred eighty is that. I'm
going to call Tom your thoughts on.

Speaker 9 (01:06:21):
This good morning sir. I know I've got an I'm
trying to make it clean fist of us.

Speaker 4 (01:06:32):
But yeah, I know these things get a bit complicated.

Speaker 9 (01:06:34):
Yeah, yeah, okay, insurance. Look, I built my house sixty
three years ago and only had one claim for tree
falling over from the state. Yes, and that was an
act of God when the semester house and its door
a little bit and the car that was there. But
they for my annual renewal, they sent me sixty pages, yes,

(01:06:59):
and a lot of and a lot of the things
I didn't see when I had an unusual claim for
the hose for the Washington exploding and creating real damage
for Parco through the house. But anyway, what I didn't
see while we were discussing it was a big rail
on that trade tools went and caught included in the

(01:07:23):
house and contents. And I'm wondering what my trade tools
are because i haven't been building for twenty years, So
I'm wondering where we could go there because they can
really dodge. Also, nothing to do with my general building.
I had some real good timber which was stolen walnut

(01:07:47):
the oaks and no.

Speaker 6 (01:07:48):
Good as bored, but.

Speaker 9 (01:07:51):
Toture got quite a bit of total. I managed to
get nothing to do with building, which I haven't done
for twenty years, So wondering where we'd get there. But
they wanted any plan to be made in an in
each annual year.

Speaker 4 (01:08:06):
So I wonder Tom whether some of this is actually
like in terms of you with your insurance getting a
sixty page document. So there's been recent changes to how
insurance companies kind of interact with their clients in the
sense that it was all about sort of disclosure and

(01:08:27):
getting information. So there was a number of assumptions. So
I think the response from the insurance company has been
now when you're renewing your or getting a new policy,
they ask so much more, so many more questions to
ensure that they are more fully informed. So assumptions that
they used to make they're not making anymore. They're asking
you a question. You've got to give them an answer

(01:08:48):
on it. That explained some of the complexity around that.
We'll take more calls on this as well. Tom, Thank
you very much for that. So this is again people
are saying, look, the hourly rate should include the cost
of insurance. Your thoughts on this, Oh, eight hundred eighty
ten eight peak, nobody will pay my excess, so peak,

(01:09:11):
nobody will pay my excess. Ever so afraid the builder
pays his too. Yes, interesting, but that's on your own
home insurance. You know, you get to decide what your
excess is. I mean, one option is for all of
us is if you're a homeowner and you've got insurances,
you can save on your premiums by accepting more of

(01:09:32):
the risk. So if you push your excess up, typically
your premiums will come down. You may have a thought
on that as well. Pete, it gets really tricky. I
agree with you the concept, but you shouldn't. But shouldn't
your calculations allow for the fact that insurance can be
claimed as a tax expense, So it's not that straightforward
from Steve, I hadn't thought about the tax side of it. Yes,

(01:09:58):
you can claim the cost of your insurance back, but
it's still a cost, right, You've still got to pay it.
It's still an overhead for the business. Eight hundred and eighty,
ten eighty. We're talking a lot about insurance and a
mate has just text me on my own phone who's
involved in this and probably has got some opinions as well,
So I have a look at that during the break

(01:10:19):
as well. Right, Yeah, we'll come back to Mike straight
after the break. Yeah, with the news talks. He it
is seven forty three, right, a little bit of an update. So,
and this is a vastly We've got on to talking
about insurance, which is complicated, right, There's nothing simple about
this typically, and I think anyone who's ever made an

(01:10:40):
insurance claim or tried to work through something with their
insurance company, it is complex and therefore it can be
time consuming, I guess. But I've just we were talking
about a situation where someone who phoned the program earlier
on just In Quick Summary has they're just at the

(01:11:00):
quoting stage before the work begins, and the builder has
said to the homeowner, to the client, you know, I'll
manage the installation of the kitchen units, stripping out the
old one. Manage the installation, do some patching of plaster
borders required, make a change to a wall to allow
for a cavity slider. That I have insurance that will

(01:11:22):
cover this, and I will include you in the insurance
if you agree to pay the excess. That was the
summary of it. So we got talking about that because
it is a slightly unusual situation in the sense that
two things. One is slightly not all contractors will offer

(01:11:43):
up insurance right or will have insurance. You can do
building work without necessarily having insurance, which is nuts. But anyway,
that's the case at the moment. And then what type
of insurance is and is it reasonable to ask the
client to pay the excess? Is that something this person
should agree to. Then we got on to talking about, well,
should it be added as a separate fee on an invoice,

(01:12:06):
should it be included in hourly rates? How do we
get some transparency around that. I've had a text from
a contractor that I know and trust, and I know
that he's exceptionally good at what he does, and so
I'll just read out his text to me, which has
come through on my phone. Obviously, need to be careful, Pete.
Around the insurance for renovations. A builder can't really offer

(01:12:28):
contract works. It's very rare, he says. Every builder and
every subby should have their own pl public liability insurance,
and the owner also needs to take out contract works
insurance or at least notify their insurer. In the instance
you're talking about, I think the builder is referring to
his business public liability insurance, which really only covers negligence

(01:12:51):
on their behalf. It'll be no good if a separate
contractor burns the house down. For example. Owners need their
own contract works insurance. Always, you can't have two insurance
companies ensuring the same piece of property, so then it
comes back to the homeowner in that sense. Then he
sent me another to get quickly, he says, Look, my
business insurance is thirty five K a year. That includes

(01:13:13):
the vehicles, which he's probably got five or six plus
and diggers and that sort of thing. And we charge
every client a contribution to ear to this within our
P and G charges for the job. It's a cost
of the business. I've never had to claim on pl
insurance touch what he says, and I wouldn't ask a
client to pay the excess on a claim. There you go,

(01:13:37):
And that's for a contractor who, like I say, I've
known for a good number of years. I've seen their
work and it's exceptional. So I really appreciate the insight.
Thanks for your text, mate, I eight hundred eighty. I
take it he's listening to this on his way to
golf this morning. Probably eight hundred eighty ten eighty. The
number to call your thoughts on insurance or any other
building related matter, Mike are very good morning to you. Hey, Mike,

(01:14:02):
how you do.

Speaker 6 (01:14:03):
I'm going good. Thanks, I've got a class. They're sitting behind.

Speaker 4 (01:14:08):
Yes, I'm looking to that.

Speaker 6 (01:14:11):
War area, yep. I want to know where I can
put the tiles directly onto the glass rather than having
to remove the glass.

Speaker 4 (01:14:21):
That look part of me goes. You know, there's no
reason why you wouldn't that The challenge will be like
most tile adhesives are not designed to adhere to glass, right,
So they're designed to adhere to particular membranes or to
directly to plasterboard, et cetera, et cetera, in which case

(01:14:42):
you may need to adhere the tiles. You might find
a tile adhesive that actually works on a solid surface
like that, or you might end up finding that you
need to use like a silicon adhesive to adhere the
tiles to the glass and then grout them. And also,
I guess just be realistic about you know, how long
it might last and that sort of thing.

Speaker 6 (01:15:03):
So it's I had heard possibly use silicones.

Speaker 4 (01:15:08):
Yeah, but you'd want a silicon adhesive. So there are adhesives.
There are silicones, and then there are in some cases
there are silicon adhesive or sealant adhesive. So just make
sure you're selecting the right product. But yeah, and so
if you've got glass splash back just behind the hobbs,
does that extend then on the walls on either side,
or you're just looking to tile over the glass splash.

Speaker 3 (01:15:30):
Back just.

Speaker 6 (01:15:33):
Tens and two multi panels on the side.

Speaker 4 (01:15:37):
Yeah, yeah, perfect, Look at that wall. You know it's
it's your place. If if, for example, in a couple
of years time one of the tiles falls off, where
you just put it back on again. So yeah, drop, yeah,
that's right. That's one way to ruin your spaghetti bolonnaise.
Oh mate, have a crack. Just make sure you use

(01:15:59):
the right adhesive. All right, all the very best you
might you take care. Eight hundred and eighty ten eighty
and Narada, Good morning to you, Rida, good morning. Hello,
how are you hi?

Speaker 11 (01:16:18):
I'm telling about a but and old deecking membrane that
we have over a downstairs rump us. Yep, we had
a it looked like I had been kind of pierced
and repaired with silicon for some nails that had come through,
and we had a contract to come and put a
waterproof membrane over the top. Yes, but it seems like
there's kind of air bubbles whether nails had punctured it,

(01:16:42):
And I'm not happy with the solution, and I'm not
sure whether that was the right option and where we
can go from now we've paid half of the voice already.

Speaker 4 (01:16:53):
Yeah, I don't really have good news for you. I
think the contractor probably should have given you better advice
than I can apply, because what they've done is they've
applied a membrane over the top of the butteanol, right,
but they haven't addressed the issue of is the butte
nyl starting to delaminate from the surface underneath it? And

(01:17:15):
also if the fixings are starting to move and it's
it's not uncommon right for a certain error, then they
haven't done anything to solve that problem. So no, applying
a waterproofing solution over the top was never going to work.

Speaker 11 (01:17:29):
Right, Okay, that's what I suspected.

Speaker 4 (01:17:32):
Yeah, which I know is terrible news.

Speaker 11 (01:17:34):
But like our other advice was a conversion to a
fiberglass Would that and they take the butter knol off?

Speaker 4 (01:17:45):
Yes, yes, you would need to remove the existing substrate.
Then you've got to look at what the fixings are
and you know, if there has been some leaking, and
for example, back in the day it might have been
common practice to use untreated plywood underneath there, you might
have some decay in that, so you might also have
to remove the plywood.

Speaker 6 (01:18:06):
But look, I.

Speaker 4 (01:18:08):
Respectfully say to the contractor, this is not a solution
that's addressing the actual issues. Don't go ahead and do anymore.
It's just throwing And I kind of feel a bit
annoyed when contractors do this, because it's anyone who's reasonably experienced,
reasonably competent would know that this isn't going to be

(01:18:29):
a solution.

Speaker 11 (01:18:29):
That there was a five year warranty on it, but
there's nothing in writing. So I've asked for that and
they haven't comed back to me.

Speaker 4 (01:18:36):
Yeah, ask for the warranty, don't pay any more money,
probably don't get them back necessarily to do any more work.
It would be interesting to know what product they actually
applied over the top.

Speaker 11 (01:18:49):
It was a Marpe Marpe, right, is that how you
pronounce it?

Speaker 4 (01:18:52):
Yeah, Marpe, and that's a good brand. It's just I
didn't know that they did a waterproofing solution for buttenyl.
So there are some systems where there is like an
approved system for applying over the top of No, I'd
have to do some research to see whether that includes Marpe.
Marpe is a very good brand, but even good products

(01:19:13):
installed and correctly won't work. That's why we have producers
statements or warranty certificates and specifications.

Speaker 11 (01:19:22):
So thank you very much. Sorry take a lot of
money for a very short job. So I was just
feeling very about it.

Speaker 4 (01:19:30):
Please please don't continue. Don't don't continue with it? Okay,
all right, all the best. Then, ah, that's not great.
It's not great at all. So in a nutshell, I
think you know older but knol applications over let's say,

(01:19:53):
might even be twelve mil play nailed down with clouts.
The clouds start to move, they rise, they pierce them
waterproofing membrane. But if you don't solve that problem, there's
no point in putting another membrane over the top. We'll
talk more about this, and the insurance one has really
taken off this morning, So if you've got some thoughts,
call us now your new stork, se'd be welcome back
to the program. My name's Pete wolf Camp, resident builder,

(01:20:14):
and this is the resident builder on Sunday. So we're
talking building. And that's a pretty broad sort of subject,
or it touches or it links into a whole lot
of issues. What has ignited the text machine in a
way that I haven't seen for a long time has
been this discussion around insurance. And it all stemmed from

(01:20:35):
a call just after the seven o'clock news Linda, who
is about to do a kitchen renovation. So there's the
old kitchen units to be removed, possibly some reinstatement of
plaster board. Obviously electrical come in and do some rewiring.
Plumber might be involved. The builder is going to change

(01:20:55):
let's say a conventional door to a pocket door or
to a cavity slider, So need to open up a
bit of the wall which isn't load bearing, so it
doesn't need a building consents. You can do that work
under schedule. And then the builder in their contract has said, look,
I have insurance, and let's presume that that's public liability insurance,

(01:21:20):
and I will include you in the public liability or
i'll note your job down in that if you agree
to pay the excess, should we need to make a claim?
And so what do you do? Well, that's a fascinating question.
What do you do that? And partly that questions aimed
at you, Now, what would you do in that instance.
We've had a truckload of texts on this from Hey,

(01:21:45):
it's great that a contractor is actually being upfront about
the insurance and the insurance cost too. It's absurd that
you would be asked to specifically pay for it. Surely
that should be included in the contractor's rates. So how
do you then, if you're a contractor, explain to someone that, hey, look,

(01:22:05):
part of the cost of doing this job as insurance.
That's why maybe my quote is a little bit more
expensive than somebody else's because actually I've got insurance and
that gives you some surety. It's also raised an issue
around the distinction between the various types of insurance, and
it gets quite a complicated here as well. So contractors
typically will have public liability insurance ensuring the actual job

(01:22:28):
for damage becomes part of the can become part of
the homeowner's responsibility, so if you're having work done, you net.
The only bit of advice that I seem to have
some consensus on is if you are a homeowner who
is having contractors do work at your place, you've got
to pick up the phone and talk to your insurer
before they start, one to notify them, and two you

(01:22:52):
may need to extend the cover on your existing insurance
policy to cover this work. The contracts work for the
duration of the job, and that becomes your expense, not
necessarily the contractor's expense. So anyway, it has been fascinating
and the text machine has gone nuts on this, but

(01:23:13):
i'd love your calls, so if you'd like to offer
up an opinion on that, we'll take your calls. Just
prior to the news we were talking with the narrator
about some work where I'm guessing from what she's describing,
we're probably talking about nineteen eighties construction, maybe early nineteen nineties.
So there's a deck that extends over a habitable space below.

(01:23:37):
In this case of rumpus room, it's been framed out,
it's got probably plywood on it that's been fixed down.
It sounds like with maybe nails, as was common practice
at the time, and then it's got buttanol, which is
a rubber membrane over the top, which again common product
then still available today. There's been some movement of the

(01:23:59):
substrate of the plywood, the nails are starting to loosen
and come up the piercing the membrane, and there's also
been some bubbles where the adhesion has let go and
someone's come along applied a coat of something turns out
to be a marpe product over the top of that,
and then charge them quite a lot of money for that.

(01:24:20):
Yet it hasn't dealt with any of the actual substantive
issues as to why that waterproofing is failing. I'm saying,
don't spend another cent on it. You may offer up
an opinion as well. Oh, eight hundred eighty ten eighty
is the number to call on all of these things.
A couple of texts. I'll just scroll back down because cracky,
there's a lot of them. Is paying the excess for

(01:24:43):
a client if she has to claim against the builder
for poor workers? It the builder In case he has
to put an acclaim against a supplier. I think it's
the builder. The contractor has said, look, I've got insurance,
but you need to agree to pay the excess, so
that would be against some sort of damage. It'll never

(01:25:05):
be you can't claim for negligence. I understand. It'll be
about the resulting damage from negligence. Liability insurance is a
business cost, says someone on the text New Zealand. Businesses
continue to pass on their cost to the customer. When
I was a courier, I had to have a ten
million dollar public liability insurance. I did not pass on
those costs to the consumer. Why would building be any different.

(01:25:29):
It sounds like the building industry has slipped through the cracks,
while every other business having been incurring these costs forever,
and as my mate who texts through, he says, look,
my insurance costs for my business are thirty five thousand
dollars a year. Now that's public liability, but also includes
some vehicle costs, and there'd be a bunch of uts,
a small truck, digger, trailers, etc. Etc. So it's a

(01:25:52):
reasonable size fleet that he runs as part of his
building and landscape and construction business. But it's a significant cost.
It's a significant overhead, so he includes that in their
P ANDNG costs. Eight hundred eighty ten eighty is the
number to call. We can talk insurance, we can talk construction,
and remember at around eight thirty this morning, we will

(01:26:14):
be talking all things gardening and the wonderful world of
bugs with Rod Climb passed after the break at eight thirty,
but right now time for your calls. Eight hundred eighty
ten eighty and Graham, a very good morning to you.

Speaker 12 (01:26:26):
Welcome, good morning. Yes, public public liability is there to
cover the contractor's liability to the principle, there is no
way it should be any agreement by the principle I
either person having the work done to cover the access

(01:26:47):
or anything because it is there the contractors liability to
you as the person paying for the thing it does
not cover.

Speaker 4 (01:26:56):
Sorry, would it be slightly unusual then for a contractor
to offer the P and L. So actually, let's go
back a step. Like if I'm a contractor and I'm
doing work for various clients and in this instance here
I've gone, I've quoted some work for a kitchen renovation,
and I've got a public liability policy that's in place.

(01:27:19):
As do I need to nominate or inform my insurer
as to which clients should be covered by that or
does it cover all of my clients regardless?

Speaker 12 (01:27:30):
Okay, so public liability insurance covers your legal liability anywhere
in New Zealand. Some will cover anywhere in the world,
but predominantly anywhere in New zim for any work you're doing,
so you do not need to notify your insurer as
a contractor.

Speaker 6 (01:27:45):
Right.

Speaker 12 (01:27:45):
However, if you, as a house owner, are having work
done to your house and you gave the advice earlier
in the show, yes, let your insurance company know for
something like a kitchen they may not require an extra premium.
They'll just note it. Yes, but that varies from insurance
company to an insurance company.

Speaker 4 (01:28:08):
Whereas I've got friends who are extending out the back
of the house right so at a certain stage they'll
probably have to remove part of the roofing that sort
of thing. You'd really want your insurance to know specifically
that that's happening.

Speaker 12 (01:28:22):
So removing anything that affects the effectively the envelope the
water pressing of the house is a must you must
in your insurance company. But public liability will not cover
the work that he is doing. It covers his legal
liability for resulting damage, so he drops the hammer on

(01:28:45):
the bath or things like that. With my clients, I
used to say to the builders, Look, if you're doing renovation,
make it the responsibility and the contract for the homeowners
to organize the insurance. If you're doing a new build,

(01:29:07):
it's up between the two of you where they which
one will organize the insurance.

Speaker 4 (01:29:11):
Because typically that's quite a different insurance policy, isn't it.
In that in New Zealand there's only a couple of
companies that will offer essentially like a durability warranty or
insurance for a new build.

Speaker 5 (01:29:26):
Yeah.

Speaker 12 (01:29:26):
Yeah, None of the construction insurance or public liability will
cover what's an effect a guarantee that the builder has
done things correctly. You're right, that is a very rare
one that's born into the performance guarantee type insurance.

Speaker 4 (01:29:44):
Yeah, it was a very fascinating, you know, interesting call.
It's provoked an enormous response which has been tremendous. But
you know, in this case, the contractor has said, I've
got insurance, but you have to agree to pay the excess.

Speaker 8 (01:30:01):
If you ever heard of that, that is a load
of rubbish, right, because.

Speaker 12 (01:30:07):
It's just stupid, because the public liability policy is covering
the builders or contractors liability to you, So why would
you pay the excess on his liability to meet the
damage he's caused to you. I've never heard of anything
so stupid.

Speaker 4 (01:30:26):
I think what they're saying, well, yeah, and look I
know on that when you were talking with Isama producer,
you've said, you know, you've been in this game for
a while, so i'll buy out your experience. The notion
that in the event that there's a claim, you have
to pay the excess is that unusual? I mean, if

(01:30:47):
there's no claim, there's no cost, right.

Speaker 6 (01:30:49):
Yeah.

Speaker 12 (01:30:50):
In fifty one years I've never heard of it. It's
the effect like saying the car that drove into the
back of you, yes, And that's what legal liability is.
It's the same the car that drove into the back
of you. You've got to pay the excess the damage
he's caused to you.

Speaker 4 (01:31:05):
Brilliant linked and to the point. I love that, Graham,
Thank you, much appreciated, all the very best, much appreciated.
Thanks for your time. Let me see almost eighteen minutes
after eight. We'll take short break, We'll take a couple
more calls, and then we're into the garden with red
Climb passed from eight thirty this morning.

Speaker 1 (01:31:22):
For more from the Resident Builder with Peter Wolfcamp, listen
live to news talks'd be on Sunday mornings from six,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.

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