May 21, 2013 • 32 mins
With numerous wins in multiple competitions, the legendary Andretti family is one of racing's most prominent dynasties -- but, also, apparently, cursed. So what is the Andretti curse, exactly? Join Scott and Ben to learn more.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Go behind the wheel, under the hood and beyond with
Car Stuff from how Stuff Works dot Com. Hi, everybody,
welcome to Car Stuff. I'm Scott Benjamin and I'm ben Boland. Scott.
You know we've heard the name Mario Andrettie before. Of
course I've heard of Mario Andretti. Now, he's a legend
(00:24):
in racing absolutely. In fact, you know what the Andretti's are, Uh,
some people call them, you know, Automotive Racing Royalty. I
guess there's a couple of families that you know, get
that designation, like the Petties, maybe a NASCAR, um, you
know the course the Andretti's in while IndyCar and Formula
one really and a lot of circles um. But yeah,
he's he's been around, He's done a lot of things. Man. Well,
(00:46):
I think that before we go into the meat of
this podcast to be a good idea to hear some
of the big winds that Mario Andretti has had in
his life. Okay, well, you know there's there's one glaring
opening here that you will notice later on as we
talked about it. But but over his career he's had
a lot of success. I mean, I mean just incredible
(01:06):
amounts of success. And in fact, he's he's won the
IndyCar Championship four times in a row, and not in
a row, but four times. UM. In nineteen seventy eight,
he was actually the F one World Champion and uh
he was the first American to ever win that. Very nice. Yeah,
and uh now he's also an Iraq winner. That's the
International Race of champions winner in nineteen seventy eight and
(01:28):
seventy nine. He's the only driver, uh to win the
Indy five hundred day five hundred and then F one
I'm thinking to F one Championship World Championship. UM now
in five will find out that was nineteen sixty nine. Uh,
so that's a big vent, a big win. UM. He's
had a one hundred and nine career wins total, which
is huge. That's a lot of races, by the way,
(01:49):
a lot of wins. Uh. He's the first driver ever
to exceed two hundred miles per hour at Indianapolis and
he did that during the practice session UM way back
in nineteen seventy seven in Indianapolis. UM, that's a big
deal to break a barrier like that. I mean, the
next one to be broken will be the three um,
and let's see, man, there's just a ton of things
(02:09):
that he's also members of, all these the Indianapolis Motor
Speedway Hall of Fame, the International Motorsports Hall of Fame,
the Motorsports Hall of Fame of America, the National Sprint
Car Hall of Fame, uh, the Automotive Hall of Fame.
And he's also been the Driver of the Year three times.
He was the Indie five Rookie of the Year. I mean,
he's got just this enormous resume of victories and um achievements.
(02:34):
And yet Ben the man's only one Indianapolis once, which
leads some people to say that Mario Andretti, indeed the
Andretti dynasty is cursed. Yeah, this is uh, it's not
just Mario. And we'll get into that, I promise. But
now Mario, man, I mean, he's had something like I
(02:54):
want to say, twenty nine starts, is that right, um
at Indianapolis. So he's he's been there since nineteen sixty five,
I believe, and he raced all the way up until
I think it was what nine early two thousand's I think. Um,
I promised I'll get to it, but he raced a
Long Long was his last one, and then he came
(03:15):
back again. But um, he only won this race one time,
and and you know that may not sound like anything terrible,
but then you realize that he's got other family members
that the same situation has fallen too. They haven't even
won once. And out of I think it's a total
of Oh my gosh, this numbers amazing. Something like I
want to say, I've seen anywhere from sixty five to
(03:35):
sixty seven cumulative starts at Indianapolis for the race one victory,
and that's his in nineteen sixty nine. He can see
there's something going on here. There's a there's this long,
horrible string of we'll call it bad luck, bad luck
at Indianapolis for the Andretti family, all of the Andretti
family and uh Mario Andretti Andretti Sr. He got close
(04:01):
a couple of times after nineteen sixty nine. But what
I think is interesting about this, about this curse idea,
and I am using finger quotes here. We'll do a
little bit of myth busting in the course of this podcast.
It is not as though some shadowy coven of witches
or something got angry at him and did some sort
(04:21):
of boiled boiled toil and trouble stuff. It's close, Okay.
I was wondering if you were going to bring this up,
So all right, let's start there, Scott. What is the
other name for the Andretti curse? Oh, it's also the
the Granitelli kiss? And uh this or is there another
name that you know? That several? I mean, and that's
(04:43):
Andy Granitelli. And Andy Grantitelli was the the the owner
of the team in nineteen sixty nine when Mario did win.
I remember he tried a couple of times before this,
even but um, Andy Grantitelly and I feel we just
have to mention him a bit. He's he's at this point,
as far as I know, he's still alive. He's years
old and he was born twenty three early in twenty three. Um.
(05:04):
He was the CEO of STP, which is um scientifically
three patrole um, not the not the band STP. I
have an STP shirt and people ask me that all
the time. Is that that the band or that you
know whatever? So, Um, he was an auto mechanic, he
was a speed shop owner. Um, he's also an automobile
show promoter. So he did you know like some of
these uh like racing daredevil type shows that he was
(05:28):
a promoter for a very theatrical guy. UM Motorsports Hall
of Fame member. UM also the sprint Car Hall of
Fame member, and uh he's sponsored let's see Richard Petty
and NASCAR of course the STP car that you would
recognize as well. UM. He's also um, the the owner
of a chain of stores that later became car Quest
(05:50):
Auto Parts. So that's Andy Grant Telly. Now he's a
you know, he was up until very recently, uh, you know,
the heavy hitter in the automotive world in racing circles
and can I can I just say one more quick
thing about Andy, because I can't let this pass. He
he wrote a book and I think it's called I'm
gonna off the top of my head. It's like call
me Mr five hundred. I think it's the name of
(06:11):
this and it's because of his involvement with the race. Right. Well,
if you look at any of the photos of Andy
Granitelli from around the nineteen sixties with you know, the
STP team, Um, he he wears a white suit bend
that has STP logos all over it. And h it
looks ridiculous. It's so funny. It's it's kind of cool
(06:31):
now looking back at it, but it's so funny. And
it stood out so much in his team or what
looked like STP pajamas, because there were these jumpers that
had the STP logo all over them. I mean, you know,
fifty or a hundred logos on these things. It's very funny.
It's worthwhile to look up, you know, the Andy Grannitelly
STP suit, just to see it. But the origin of
(06:52):
this whole thing where people say this curse happened was,
you know, finally, you know, after four years, really, um,
Mario to win at Indianapolis. That's that's significant, you know, right,
the crowd goes wild. It's nineteen sixty nine and the
owner granted Telly overcome with excitement at this big win
(07:12):
for his team. Uh runs up and UH Andretti is
getting out of the vehicle victory circle, victory circle, and
UH plants a big old smooch on Mario, Andretti kisses
him right on the cheek. And you know, you can
see photos of the actual moment, you know, when this
is happening. You know, Andretti's just out of the car.
(07:33):
He's you know, faces all dirty and everything, with the
goggles on and everything, and um, he plants a great
big kiss right in his cheek, and uh. A lot
of people point to this moment, this very moment, as
the moment when the Andretti curse began. Yes, and that's
why you'll hear this sometimes refer to as grant to
tell these kiss, which still which still makes me laugh
(07:54):
when I hear about it. But um, with that iconic
moment in the story of the curse, goes that ever
since that kiss or that moment, uh, no one in
the Adretti family could win first place at But there's
a long long delay between when they actually started calling
(08:15):
it a curse and and when it actually maybe had began,
you know, in this night after nine, because of course
he had a victory. So that's you know, positive, right. Well,
it wasn't until like maybe the nineteen s seven area
when ABC Sports started to mention something about what they
would call the Andretti curse. And you're just kind of
off handedly, you know, like, maybe is he going to
(08:37):
overcome this curse this year that he's had since nineteen
sixty nine. So we're talking about a long long time
and he's been he's been entered every year with the
exception of nineteen seventy nine, UM in the race, So
you know, he's had many, many, many opportunities at this point.
And Um, I think it was Tom Carnegie. You pointed
to an article right that, Um, there was an interview
between um Andretti and was it carn Driver. I think
(08:58):
it was, yeah, yeah, car and Driver. He talks about
Mario and Dretti himself talks about some of the interesting
things about the about this huge idea, I mean of
the supposed curse, the supposed curse, and he doesn't agree
with it being called a curse. Right. Yeah, we got
a good chuckle out of this because he mentioned his
(09:20):
his friend, UM, Tom Carnegie, who was the race announcer
at the track. Uh, you know, you can hear his
he can hear his pipes on any of the the
old video clips or film clips rather of races from
from years past, I mean going way back into the sixties, seventies,
maybe even the late fifties. I don't remember when he started.
But Tom Carnegie, famously known as the voice of he
(09:41):
called it a curse yeah, and he would, uh, he
had all these trademark phrases the record that racing fans
will recognize like he's on it. It's a new track record.
Where as they point out in the interview, Mario is slowing. Yeah,
that's right. And and then you know, of course he
came up with this idea that you know, this is
a curse, and you know, ABC again kind of latched
onto that that there's possibly this curse. Now Mario though
(10:04):
in that interview, you and I this is what we
laughed about, right. Oh yeah, he had an interesting spin
on this whole idea of a curse. Yet said, they
said that, um, and one of the one of the questions,
your last appearance at Indie was spectacular April two thou
three crash when you were testing the car, hit debris
in the car, just launched. He said, That's an example
(10:24):
of why I think I've been totally blessed rather than curse.
That triple somersault landed me back on all four wheels.
I've done maybe one hundred thousand miles at Indie between
all the testing and the racing, and to be able
to walk away with no major incidents. I consider that
a blessing. He calls that not a major incident. Have
you seen that wreck from too, It's incredible. It's caught
(10:45):
from a helicopter, only they didn't have for whatever reason.
It was the practice sessions, and no one is really
taking this. Um, it's an amazing he's higher than the
catch fence at one point. It looks like the car
is practicing parkour. It's incredible. It's an absolutely incredible wreck.
And that's again he was just testing a veagle. He
wasn't even really entered in the race that year or not,
but rather but um, anyways, he so he spins this
in that it's not a curse and it's a blessing
(11:07):
really that you know, they haven't had any family deaths,
they've had no major injuries other than you know on
broken leg here, they're no debilitating, permanent exactly exactly, and
then you know the spans to their whole family. So
in a way I understand what he's saying. And we said,
you know, sixty five or sixty seven or however many
it is. Now it's up there. Um, we're approaching seventy
quickly for the total number of racing for the andredd
(11:30):
exactly and if you break it down, I mean, I've
got a rough I got rough numbers here. But let's
say that Mario himself has done uh, let's say twenty
nine attempts. I think it is um between nineteen sixty
five and n UM Michael somewhere in the neighborhood of
sixteen attempts. Now Michael is uh Mario's son, and uh
(11:51):
he's also team owner of Andretti Green Racing. And then
later I think it's just there's an Andretti Racing. Um.
You know what, I'm gonna get ahead of myself here,
So let's just go through and list them. But Marco
Andretti seven attempts, Jeff Andretti three attempts, John Andretti seven attempts.
He can see that. You know, they're not They're not
giving up on Indianapolis. They're trying to win. It's just
(12:13):
for whatever reason, this one race has eluded them since
nineteen Yeah, and uh, this the problem here is that
they've had some tantalizing brushes with a win, right yeah, yeah, exactly.
Now I'm gonna start with Mario and I will go
through and I promise I'm gonna make this fast. But
you know, the the the guys that I just mentioned,
(12:34):
the five members of the Andretti family that have given
a shot at Indie. I will quickly go through, and
I'm gonna real fast, just go through. I won't describe
all this at all, but Um, Mike in starting with Mario,
why not UM dropped out after twenty seven laps of
the bad valve X seven, loses a wheel, bad piston,
(12:55):
drops out, So he gets into a backup car, you know,
driving a driving UM this relief car for the teammate.
Another bad piston, and he drops out just you know,
twenty four laps later, ninety nine that's the victory. That's
the big year, right, Yeah, But during practice, Uh, he
had a wreck and he burned it. It was burned
fairly severely. I think, you know, I think that was
the one where his twin brother Aldo sat in for
(13:16):
all the photos, right, and uh, I thought he had
crashed maybe his Formula one car. I'm not sure. I'm
not convinced that it was his Indy car. But anyways, yeah,
you're right, that was the That was the the odd
year with the the Aldo pictures instead of Mario UM.
Nineteen seventy one, he wrecked you know, wrecked a car
um nineteen seventy two out of gas. Then there's I'll
just go through bad piston, bad valve um, bad spark,
(13:40):
plug wires. There's a wreck again in seventy five. Um. Oh.
Then then there's oh, this is an interesting one. Ben
um in one. He had the Indie five victory for
about a day. Yeah. So in nineteen eight one he
gets very close. He finished his second to Bobby Unzer.
But later yeah, the following day, right later, Under is
(14:03):
penalized one lap for passing under the yellow flag. This
is incredible, So they give the win to Mario for
one day and then the Penske team. Actually maybe a
little bit longer because the Penske team, who is the
only the team owner for Under appealed the decision. Oh
and so it's four months later. It's four I thought
it was soon, but it's four months later. The race
(14:24):
was restored Under as the winner, so they stripped Mario
of his victory again. So for four months, the poor
guys thinking that he won another one um here in
one and uh not the case, which irritates me because
four months there should be a statute of limitations on
racing decision and I'll again, I'll quickly go through this.
That's all right. Nine two, Uh, there's this wreck, and
(14:47):
I swear to you Ben, you gotta watch this wreck
the the beginning of the nineteen eighty two race. This
is something unlike you will see in any other race ever.
It's incredible to watch happen. But Kevin Cogan uh crashes
with A J. Foyd, takes out Mario Andretti and he's
it looks like half the field before the green flag
even flies, there's a red flag, and of course a J.
(15:09):
Foyd's furious and Andretti speiris. He's shoving it. They're shoving
each other after the wreck, and you can hear Andretti,
you know what, he's just frustrated and he's mad. But anyways,
there's eight three there's a wreck. Um gosh, just on
and on and on like this electrical failure is there's
throttle problems, engine problems. Uh, bad handling, mccannic by all
(15:29):
the way through, right, Okay, So all right, man, here
we are. We're up to Michael where Michael Andretti, who
is his son, is now attempting right, so you know
he's gonna give it a go for the family. Here,
Michael's gonna take the victory, right and he's starting would
yeah exactly. And what's interesting is I just remember the
eighty two race I just mentioned. He's teammates with Kevin Cogan.
(15:49):
I can imagine can you imagine that the tension between uh,
you know, in the pits. I guess if Mario and
Kevin are in the same pits, you know, just being
that his son was racing on the same team. I
can't imagine what that would have been like. I didn't
I didn't realize that until just this morning. Now, he
didn't have it that bad in that first race. It
was his second race there and he got in eighth place. Yeah,
(16:13):
not bad, not so you know, again he was right
in there nine four I think prior to that it
was rookie year, he had a fifth place finish. He
did even better. Um, but then again the same thing
befalls him. Yeah that the he just has this this
string of bad luck and he drops out to CV
joint failure. There's a bad pit stop strategy. Yeah, bad
(16:34):
pitt stop strategy. Eighty six, eighty seven, He's got the
CV joint failure. His engine blows on the front stretch
in ninet nine. Uh, let's see a break fire. It
just goes on and on. Ben, It's like this, It's amazing.
And you know the thing is he thought he was
gonna win. You know, there's so many times when he
actually ran a really good race and something happened and
(16:56):
he had to settle for second place, he had to
settle for fifth place, he had to settle for whatever.
But um, a lot of people have said about Michael
Andretti that he's probably the best driver who has never
won the Yeah, you'll hear that a lot. And specifically,
I think what you're referring to Scott is uh something
like the race he had uh half a lap lead
(17:21):
over second place and then with eleven laps to go,
the fuel pump blow. Do you see what I mean? Ben?
When I sent you this a long time ago, we
had this idea that we're going to do this podcast
we've been and I wrote to him, I said, you know,
there there's this Andretti curse thing, and I know it
sounds kind of funny, but really look into the numbers
and what happens and and go through it year by
(17:41):
year and you'll see this pattern emerge that you can't explain.
It's so odd the things that happened to the Andretti
family there. I mean, I know that I know that
that's going to happen occasionally, but is it going to
happen sixty seven times to the same family, Right, It's like, statistically,
at what point does this become unbelievable bulk, especially with
such with such um dominating drivers. In two thousand he
(18:04):
gets even closer as Michael because he if the race
had not been stopped for rain Scott, he would have won.
That's what most people believe. You know, that's and that
happened again as a team owner because he he you know,
finished driving around two thousand one. I think his final
rate actually rather his last race he thought was gonna
(18:25):
be um. Yeah, he said it was going to be
his last race. Um, now'll find out later. He comes
back for two thousand seven, two thive and seven. But
he does come back even as a team owner. And
here is where the Andretti's do have a small amount
of success, right because as a team owner he's very
(18:45):
successful there. Michael Andretti is because he has they have
one Indianapolis um um as a as a team owner.
So you know that that's that's something I guess in
the Andretti win category, right, Um, But the problem is
that you know both of his drivers the year after
have both uh you know, taken off to another team
(19:05):
right afterwards. But but you know, still, that's that's a
victory in my book. Well, and let's also go to
Marco son. That's Michael's son. So it's Mario's grandson. Uh. Michael,
as I think we may have mentioned, comes out of
retirement to race with his son and this let's see,
(19:26):
this is mid two thousands tire and Marco is maybe
gonna finally break the curse. Two five, yeah, three laps
to go. He passes his father and uh he takes
a pretty impressive lead, but up creeping behind comes Sam
Hornish Jr. And he catches him on the final lap. Now,
(19:48):
this is one that we talked about in our Best
Lap Laps, Best Last Laps episode because this is the
second closest finish in intory. It was an incredible pass
right there at the end of it was a real
nail bitter right to the last second. You think, as
a as a rookie, what a great story this is
gonna be. I mean, it was all set up that
he was, you know, hopefully going to be uh going
(20:08):
to be the winner, but he just lost, I mean
right at the finished line. Um. So unfortunately Marco didn't
win that one. In Marco who is again that's Michael's son. Um,
he is continued. Unfortunately, he's continuing this thing, I mean
right up until right until two thousand twelves. We'll find out,
because I've got a quick little thing on two twelve.
But um, two thousands six you just mentioned, I think
(20:31):
it was two thousands six, not five. Um. And then
in two thousand seven he was caught up in a
big crash with Dan Weldon. Uh, flipped upside down, you know,
wasn't injured really all that seriously. Um. In two thousand eight,
he was the fastest car to track. Um. However, Uh,
they made some adjustment to his wing at the end
of the race and just made him non competitive. He
is only able to get like maybe third place. I
(20:52):
think it was two thou two thousand nine. Again, first turn,
first lap, so he's involved in a crash. Um does
don't even make it to turn to in the first
and you know, the first lap. So again Marco is
continuing this thing. And do you see what I mean, Ben,
this is just on and on and on. And then
there's Jeff. I was gonna say, don't don't stop. Now
I'm not going to. I'm getting near the end. I mean,
(21:14):
people are probably getting, you know, fatigued by hearing people Jeff.
There's Jeff who is Mario's um, Mario's son, so you know,
in addition to Michael Lee as Jeff um so it's
Michael's brother. He only gives it three shots. In n
he finished in fifteenth place. In N he had a
wreck due to a rear wheel hub that broke off
(21:34):
during the race. UM. So he spun out and had
a wreck there. Um in nine that was his last
five hundred. He crashed out again. Um and that was
after a tough day two. I mean it was just
that he had he had been the first driver to
spend out in these warm up lanes that they had
um had just installed. So that was kind of an
embarrassment as well. Um, just bad news. And then Jeff
(21:55):
isn't the last one. Yeah, let's mention. Remember we said
Aldo on Dretti Mario his twin brother. Well, he has
a son named John and John also has a good
career in motor sports and a bad career with the
Indi five. Dred will say a dismal Indi five career,
just as it just as all other Andretti's have. Um. Now,
(22:17):
I mean aside from you know the one victory and
sixty nine and then the two s team owner which
I'm just now looking at. Um the team owner wins
came with uh in two thousand five and two thousand
and six. I believe, yes, UM, I think that's right.
So John drops out due to engine failure. Uh he
spun exiting the pits in eighty nine ignition failure, suspension damage. Um.
(22:45):
He through, he finished, but he wasn't what they would
call a factor in the race. UM. He lost his
mirror in two thousand seven and crashed a little bit
before halfway through. So bad. UH. In two thousand eight
was a tough race, no huge engine problems, but it
wasn't competitive. In two thousand nine, Uh, he had to
(23:08):
qualify on bump day yep, and so he just wasn't.
He wasn't even on the lead lap when they finally
finished the race. He finished nineteenth. Now I mentioned you
know what I keep going back and forth unless I
do have the number. Now, Michael's team has won twice
in two thousand five with driver Dan Weldon and then
again in two thousand seven with Dario Frankati. UM. So
those you know, he he count he himself counsels as
(23:29):
wins at Indie UM. I kind of do too. I
kind of see that as a as an Andretti success
at Indy UM. But man, do you see what I'm
talking about? Ben? In this thing? There's this there's this
black hole around Indianapolis for the Andretti family and they
can't get out of it. They just can't. They can't win.
They can't pull off a victory there for some reason.
Out of we've mentioned sixty plus starts, we're nearing seventy
(23:51):
and uh, you know this goes right up until two
thousand twelve, because went before we get to two thousand twelve.
You got something to tell me, now, Scott. We have
moved bravely into the future of books that aren't on paper.
Let's move bravely into the future of the Onrettes, or
at least the recent past. Yeah, the very recent past,
because this is last year's race. The two thousand twelve race,
(24:12):
and again, man, can you believe that the the Andretti
curse comes up once again with Marco who is again
that's Mario's grandson, Michael's son. Um. Now, with only thirteen
lats to go, he crashes out in turn one where
he had a shot at the wind. Now I think
he had kind of a rough day, but he was
battling back and again trying to make a pass and
(24:33):
turn one ended up in four place, and you know,
in the place that's after starting fourth in the race.
And I think somebody had mentioned to him at the end,
you know, when when you're gonna snap this curse? And
he said, you know what, I don't believe in the curse.
So it's it's noted again and again. In two thousand twelve,
he says, I don't believe in the curse. I just
don't know what it is. I don't know how we're
(24:53):
gonna get, you know, paraphrasing, I don't know what's happening here. Um.
So it's like they know, they know. And you know
that that interview with carn Driver where Mario was, you know,
talking about the curse, and you know how he spins
it as a blessing Um, they're well aware of what's
going on, what people are saying about it. But man,
I really think that if people look into the details
(25:15):
of this uh approaching you know, seventies starts at Indianapolis
and find out, you know, what's happened to the Andretti
is all along the way, there's some really strange, strange
things happening there. And I'm not I'm not buying into
the whole curse thing. I just think it's bad luck.
And I mean, you know, sometimes of course as driver
air and things like that, but over and over and
over again, Ben, it's just too much of a coincidence.
(25:37):
And a lot of these things are a lot of
these things that break the race for an Andretti driver
are going to be things that are beyond the driver's control.
And that's what's weird. And they've been so close so
many times, and then you know, like these odd things
will happen where they're really fast, they qualify fast, they
start the race and for whatever reason, the car is
just not running well, nothing happened to it between qualifying
(26:00):
and the race day, and the car just doesn't run
the same as it didn't qualifying. You know, it could
be atmospheric conditions could be anything, but it's just not
running the way it should and there's no good explanation
for it at all. And we're going to, um, we're
going to be over the move when the quote unquote
curses finally broken because it sounds like both of us
think this is just bad luck. It is. It's unusual. Um,
(26:23):
not because it's just bad luck, but it's unusual because
these are superior drivers, you know. Now See, I would
love to say Marco is going to snap this thing
pretty soon. He's gonna win. INT's going to be a
great day, right. I would love to say that what's
going to break? Though? But you know how many people,
you know, after watching and ready for twenty five years,
(26:43):
said Marrow is going to break this thing. He's gonna
win it sometime. He's gonna snap this curse. He's gonna
win it. You know, before when he finally retires, you know,
they were sure he was gonna win at some point,
because that's just too long to go without a win
at once, you know, for this one race. And yet
he was successful everywhere else. Every other race, yeah, every
other race, every other track, every other every other group,
(27:06):
every other you know, and he's just a successful guy
and that's why he gets the you know, the notoriety
that he does. He's again, he's one of the supposed
automobile or automotive royalty, you know, these these racing families. UM,
I just don't get it, Ben, I don't I don't understand,
and I really do hope that that someday soon Marco
steps up and and wins the D five. Maybe this year,
(27:28):
but but then again, I've been saying that since maybe
ten years from now, we'll be saying maybe this year. Um.
Before before we head into some listener mail, Scott, I
wanted to read one part of this interview that was
just fascinating to me, and it's not really related, but
it's one of the biggest questions that you can never
(27:49):
ask a legend like Mario and Dretti car and driver
in this interview, asked him, um, is there anything you
would do differently in your career? And he had one
I had when he had to regret, well, I think
he had let me. I'll read the quote, so uh so,
Andretti says, there are a couple of decisions I would
have changed after winning the F one title for Lotus example,
(28:12):
For example, I had a choice of driving for Alpha
Romeo or McLaren and I should have gone with McLaren
instead of Alpha. Other than that, I would have minimized
the mistakes I made. But really look at the span
of my career and it's something people dream about and
to be spared major injury. I had some moments along
the way, but being able to retire on my own
terms after having driven those decades when safety conditions were
(28:32):
more precarious than today and my lucky or what. And
I think that's a pretty cool way to end this,
because you know, yes, the Indy five has been bad
luck since nineteen sixty nine for the Andretti's, but um,
in comparison to the especially Mario Andretti's just profoundly ground
(28:53):
their breaking career. Uh and the length of it and
as he said, no major injuries. I think I have
to agree with Ario. He's a very very lucky driver.
I think, you know what, I absolutely agree. I mean,
I just wish that they could get over this this
hump and win this and win this one race. But um,
you know, when you look at everything that he's done,
like you said, this fan of his career, everything that
(29:14):
he's been been involved with in the times that he
was involved with him, you know, when F one was
terribly dangerous to be involved in and IndyCar was terribly
dangerous as well. Um, I think he's his whole family
has been very lucky. I mean, you don't drive two
hundred and thirty miles an hour, you know, for you know,
hundreds of thousands of miles cumulative. You know, all these
guys um and and come away, you know, alive for
(29:37):
no good reason. I mean there's a lot of skill involved,
but I think there's a lot of good luck involved
there as well, because sometimes things happen that you just
you can't avoid. And they've been very, very fortunate. Yeah. Also,
Mario Andretti, huge F one fan, thinks that, uh, it
needs to be more prevalent in the United States. No Good,
says F one is underestimating. The US fan base is
(30:00):
a big proponent of this thing. And hopefully, you know,
we'll get more F one races here in the States. Yeah,
that's it. We'll hopefully we'll see that. Um, hopefully we
will see more F one races here and and Andretti
winning the ind that would be nice. Hopefully this year
why not. Yeah, maybe book end it nicely. Make it
twenty nineteen, so it's a decade thing. But I I
(30:20):
hope every year, just just because I feel like it is.
Why not, it's statistically weird. Do you want to do
some listener mail? I would. Okay, this comes from our
buddy and super fan, Aaron Cooper. Uh. Aaron Cooper, you know,
has talked to us various ways, and he is a
fan of several house up work shows. So hello Aaron,
(30:42):
and he says, this is in no way car related.
But I'm listening to the Henry Ford fan mail podcast
right now. I just thought I mentioned that here in
our small rural town in Kansas, the local furniture store
and funeral home have been owned and operated by the
same family since way back. I don't know if they
ever located in the same building. I think it's a
combination that was just the norm back then. Mm hmm.
(31:05):
Maybe this has something to do with what you said
where it's not all that unusual, and that you know
that cabinet making I think was or furniture making, and
all that speculation. It seems like that's a good match,
So maybe it's not all that unusual. In a small
town for something like this to happen. Yeah, and uh,
this this email refers to our episode on on whether
(31:26):
or not bank robbers really wrote fan mail to Henry Ford.
And we talked about a very interesting thing that we
won't spoil it for you. You'll have to listen to
it if you can. I say who was about, Yes,
of course it was Bonnie and Clyde and as well
as John Dillinger right who maybe maybe didn't write to
Henry Ford about their their Ford automobiles yet. So if
(31:47):
you want to hear the answer to that, go ahead
and tune in. We'll also you also learn a little
bit more about combination furniture stores and funeral homes. Um,
so we're gonna head out. We hope that everybody enjoyed
this episode on the Andretti Curse and let us know
what you think. Uh yeah, dig into it. Look at
the list for yourself, because I mean, I know we
(32:08):
went rapid fire through the list, but but look at
the list and really focus on it and make your
own mind up. I mean, decide what you think, because
there's something going on there. Yeah, and uh, let us
know also if you've heard of any other racing curses. Uh.
We would like to hear from you on our Facebook page.
You can drop us a line on Twitter and h
(32:30):
let's see Scott. We have an email address, right, that's right,
and it's car stuff at Discovery dot com. For more
on this and thousands of other topics, this is how
stuff works dot com. Let us know what you think.
Send an email to podcast at how stuff works dot
com
Go behind the wheel, under the hood and beyond with
Car Stuff from how Stuff Works dot Com. Hi, everybody,
welcome to Car Stuff. I'm Scott Benjamin and I'm ben Boland. Scott.
You know we've heard the name Mario Andrettie before. Of
course I've heard of Mario Andretti. Now, he's a legend
(00:24):
in racing absolutely. In fact, you know what the Andretti's are, Uh,
some people call them, you know, Automotive Racing Royalty. I
guess there's a couple of families that you know, get
that designation, like the Petties, maybe a NASCAR, um, you
know the course the Andretti's in while IndyCar and Formula
one really and a lot of circles um. But yeah,
he's he's been around, He's done a lot of things. Man. Well,
(00:46):
I think that before we go into the meat of
this podcast to be a good idea to hear some
of the big winds that Mario Andretti has had in
his life. Okay, well, you know there's there's one glaring
opening here that you will notice later on as we
talked about it. But but over his career he's had
a lot of success. I mean, I mean just incredible
(01:06):
amounts of success. And in fact, he's he's won the
IndyCar Championship four times in a row, and not in
a row, but four times. UM. In nineteen seventy eight,
he was actually the F one World Champion and uh
he was the first American to ever win that. Very nice. Yeah,
and uh now he's also an Iraq winner. That's the
International Race of champions winner in nineteen seventy eight and
(01:28):
seventy nine. He's the only driver, uh to win the
Indy five hundred day five hundred and then F one
I'm thinking to F one Championship World Championship. UM now
in five will find out that was nineteen sixty nine. Uh,
so that's a big vent, a big win. UM. He's
had a one hundred and nine career wins total, which
is huge. That's a lot of races, by the way,
(01:49):
a lot of wins. Uh. He's the first driver ever
to exceed two hundred miles per hour at Indianapolis and
he did that during the practice session UM way back
in nineteen seventy seven in Indianapolis. UM, that's a big
deal to break a barrier like that. I mean, the
next one to be broken will be the three um,
and let's see, man, there's just a ton of things
(02:09):
that he's also members of, all these the Indianapolis Motor
Speedway Hall of Fame, the International Motorsports Hall of Fame,
the Motorsports Hall of Fame of America, the National Sprint
Car Hall of Fame, uh, the Automotive Hall of Fame.
And he's also been the Driver of the Year three times.
He was the Indie five Rookie of the Year. I mean,
he's got just this enormous resume of victories and um achievements.
(02:34):
And yet Ben the man's only one Indianapolis once, which
leads some people to say that Mario Andretti, indeed the
Andretti dynasty is cursed. Yeah, this is uh, it's not
just Mario. And we'll get into that, I promise. But
now Mario, man, I mean, he's had something like I
(02:54):
want to say, twenty nine starts, is that right, um
at Indianapolis. So he's he's been there since nineteen sixty five,
I believe, and he raced all the way up until
I think it was what nine early two thousand's I think. Um,
I promised I'll get to it, but he raced a
Long Long was his last one, and then he came
(03:15):
back again. But um, he only won this race one time,
and and you know that may not sound like anything terrible,
but then you realize that he's got other family members
that the same situation has fallen too. They haven't even
won once. And out of I think it's a total
of Oh my gosh, this numbers amazing. Something like I
want to say, I've seen anywhere from sixty five to
(03:35):
sixty seven cumulative starts at Indianapolis for the race one victory,
and that's his in nineteen sixty nine. He can see
there's something going on here. There's a there's this long,
horrible string of we'll call it bad luck, bad luck
at Indianapolis for the Andretti family, all of the Andretti
family and uh Mario Andretti Andretti Sr. He got close
(04:01):
a couple of times after nineteen sixty nine. But what
I think is interesting about this, about this curse idea,
and I am using finger quotes here. We'll do a
little bit of myth busting in the course of this podcast.
It is not as though some shadowy coven of witches
or something got angry at him and did some sort
(04:21):
of boiled boiled toil and trouble stuff. It's close, Okay.
I was wondering if you were going to bring this up,
So all right, let's start there, Scott. What is the
other name for the Andretti curse? Oh, it's also the
the Granitelli kiss? And uh this or is there another
name that you know? That several? I mean, and that's
(04:43):
Andy Granitelli. And Andy Grantitelli was the the the owner
of the team in nineteen sixty nine when Mario did win.
I remember he tried a couple of times before this,
even but um, Andy Grantitelly and I feel we just
have to mention him a bit. He's he's at this point,
as far as I know, he's still alive. He's years
old and he was born twenty three early in twenty three. Um.
(05:04):
He was the CEO of STP, which is um scientifically
three patrole um, not the not the band STP. I
have an STP shirt and people ask me that all
the time. Is that that the band or that you
know whatever? So, Um, he was an auto mechanic, he
was a speed shop owner. Um, he's also an automobile
show promoter. So he did you know like some of
these uh like racing daredevil type shows that he was
(05:28):
a promoter for a very theatrical guy. UM Motorsports Hall
of Fame member. UM also the sprint Car Hall of
Fame member, and uh he's sponsored let's see Richard Petty
and NASCAR of course the STP car that you would
recognize as well. UM. He's also um, the the owner
of a chain of stores that later became car Quest
(05:50):
Auto Parts. So that's Andy Grant Telly. Now he's a
you know, he was up until very recently, uh, you know,
the heavy hitter in the automotive world in racing circles
and can I can I just say one more quick
thing about Andy, because I can't let this pass. He
he wrote a book and I think it's called I'm
gonna off the top of my head. It's like call
me Mr five hundred. I think it's the name of
(06:11):
this and it's because of his involvement with the race. Right. Well,
if you look at any of the photos of Andy
Granitelli from around the nineteen sixties with you know, the
STP team, Um, he he wears a white suit bend
that has STP logos all over it. And h it
looks ridiculous. It's so funny. It's it's kind of cool
(06:31):
now looking back at it, but it's so funny. And
it stood out so much in his team or what
looked like STP pajamas, because there were these jumpers that
had the STP logo all over them. I mean, you know,
fifty or a hundred logos on these things. It's very funny.
It's worthwhile to look up, you know, the Andy Grannitelly
STP suit, just to see it. But the origin of
(06:52):
this whole thing where people say this curse happened was,
you know, finally, you know, after four years, really, um,
Mario to win at Indianapolis. That's that's significant, you know, right,
the crowd goes wild. It's nineteen sixty nine and the
owner granted Telly overcome with excitement at this big win
(07:12):
for his team. Uh runs up and UH Andretti is
getting out of the vehicle victory circle, victory circle, and
UH plants a big old smooch on Mario, Andretti kisses
him right on the cheek. And you know, you can
see photos of the actual moment, you know, when this
is happening. You know, Andretti's just out of the car.
(07:33):
He's you know, faces all dirty and everything, with the
goggles on and everything, and um, he plants a great
big kiss right in his cheek, and uh. A lot
of people point to this moment, this very moment, as
the moment when the Andretti curse began. Yes, and that's
why you'll hear this sometimes refer to as grant to
tell these kiss, which still which still makes me laugh
(07:54):
when I hear about it. But um, with that iconic
moment in the story of the curse, goes that ever
since that kiss or that moment, uh, no one in
the Adretti family could win first place at But there's
a long long delay between when they actually started calling
(08:15):
it a curse and and when it actually maybe had began,
you know, in this night after nine, because of course
he had a victory. So that's you know, positive, right. Well,
it wasn't until like maybe the nineteen s seven area
when ABC Sports started to mention something about what they
would call the Andretti curse. And you're just kind of
off handedly, you know, like, maybe is he going to
(08:37):
overcome this curse this year that he's had since nineteen
sixty nine. So we're talking about a long long time
and he's been he's been entered every year with the
exception of nineteen seventy nine, UM in the race, So
you know, he's had many, many, many opportunities at this point.
And Um, I think it was Tom Carnegie. You pointed
to an article right that, Um, there was an interview
between um Andretti and was it carn Driver. I think
(08:58):
it was, yeah, yeah, car and Driver. He talks about
Mario and Dretti himself talks about some of the interesting
things about the about this huge idea, I mean of
the supposed curse, the supposed curse, and he doesn't agree
with it being called a curse. Right. Yeah, we got
a good chuckle out of this because he mentioned his
(09:20):
his friend, UM, Tom Carnegie, who was the race announcer
at the track. Uh, you know, you can hear his
he can hear his pipes on any of the the
old video clips or film clips rather of races from
from years past, I mean going way back into the sixties, seventies,
maybe even the late fifties. I don't remember when he started.
But Tom Carnegie, famously known as the voice of he
(09:41):
called it a curse yeah, and he would, uh, he
had all these trademark phrases the record that racing fans
will recognize like he's on it. It's a new track record.
Where as they point out in the interview, Mario is slowing. Yeah,
that's right. And and then you know, of course he
came up with this idea that you know, this is
a curse, and you know, ABC again kind of latched
onto that that there's possibly this curse. Now Mario though
(10:04):
in that interview, you and I this is what we
laughed about, right. Oh yeah, he had an interesting spin
on this whole idea of a curse. Yet said, they
said that, um, and one of the one of the questions,
your last appearance at Indie was spectacular April two thou
three crash when you were testing the car, hit debris
in the car, just launched. He said, That's an example
(10:24):
of why I think I've been totally blessed rather than curse.
That triple somersault landed me back on all four wheels.
I've done maybe one hundred thousand miles at Indie between
all the testing and the racing, and to be able
to walk away with no major incidents. I consider that
a blessing. He calls that not a major incident. Have
you seen that wreck from too, It's incredible. It's caught
(10:45):
from a helicopter, only they didn't have for whatever reason.
It was the practice sessions, and no one is really
taking this. Um, it's an amazing he's higher than the
catch fence at one point. It looks like the car
is practicing parkour. It's incredible. It's an absolutely incredible wreck.
And that's again he was just testing a veagle. He
wasn't even really entered in the race that year or not,
but rather but um, anyways, he so he spins this
in that it's not a curse and it's a blessing
(11:07):
really that you know, they haven't had any family deaths,
they've had no major injuries other than you know on
broken leg here, they're no debilitating, permanent exactly exactly, and
then you know the spans to their whole family. So
in a way I understand what he's saying. And we said,
you know, sixty five or sixty seven or however many
it is. Now it's up there. Um, we're approaching seventy
quickly for the total number of racing for the andredd
(11:30):
exactly and if you break it down, I mean, I've
got a rough I got rough numbers here. But let's
say that Mario himself has done uh, let's say twenty
nine attempts. I think it is um between nineteen sixty
five and n UM Michael somewhere in the neighborhood of
sixteen attempts. Now Michael is uh Mario's son, and uh
(11:51):
he's also team owner of Andretti Green Racing. And then
later I think it's just there's an Andretti Racing. Um.
You know what, I'm gonna get ahead of myself here,
So let's just go through and list them. But Marco
Andretti seven attempts, Jeff Andretti three attempts, John Andretti seven attempts.
He can see that. You know, they're not They're not
giving up on Indianapolis. They're trying to win. It's just
(12:13):
for whatever reason, this one race has eluded them since
nineteen Yeah, and uh, this the problem here is that
they've had some tantalizing brushes with a win, right yeah, yeah, exactly.
Now I'm gonna start with Mario and I will go
through and I promise I'm gonna make this fast. But
you know, the the the guys that I just mentioned,
(12:34):
the five members of the Andretti family that have given
a shot at Indie. I will quickly go through, and
I'm gonna real fast, just go through. I won't describe
all this at all, but Um, Mike in starting with Mario,
why not UM dropped out after twenty seven laps of
the bad valve X seven, loses a wheel, bad piston,
(12:55):
drops out, So he gets into a backup car, you know,
driving a driving UM this relief car for the teammate.
Another bad piston, and he drops out just you know,
twenty four laps later, ninety nine that's the victory. That's
the big year, right, Yeah, But during practice, Uh, he
had a wreck and he burned it. It was burned
fairly severely. I think, you know, I think that was
the one where his twin brother Aldo sat in for
(13:16):
all the photos, right, and uh, I thought he had
crashed maybe his Formula one car. I'm not sure. I'm
not convinced that it was his Indy car. But anyways, yeah,
you're right, that was the That was the the odd
year with the the Aldo pictures instead of Mario UM.
Nineteen seventy one, he wrecked you know, wrecked a car
um nineteen seventy two out of gas. Then there's I'll
just go through bad piston, bad valve um, bad spark,
(13:40):
plug wires. There's a wreck again in seventy five. Um. Oh.
Then then there's oh, this is an interesting one. Ben
um in one. He had the Indie five victory for
about a day. Yeah. So in nineteen eight one he
gets very close. He finished his second to Bobby Unzer.
But later yeah, the following day, right later, Under is
(14:03):
penalized one lap for passing under the yellow flag. This
is incredible, So they give the win to Mario for
one day and then the Penske team. Actually maybe a
little bit longer because the Penske team, who is the
only the team owner for Under appealed the decision. Oh
and so it's four months later. It's four I thought
it was soon, but it's four months later. The race
(14:24):
was restored Under as the winner, so they stripped Mario
of his victory again. So for four months, the poor
guys thinking that he won another one um here in
one and uh not the case, which irritates me because
four months there should be a statute of limitations on
racing decision and I'll again, I'll quickly go through this.
That's all right. Nine two, Uh, there's this wreck, and
(14:47):
I swear to you Ben, you gotta watch this wreck
the the beginning of the nineteen eighty two race. This
is something unlike you will see in any other race ever.
It's incredible to watch happen. But Kevin Cogan uh crashes
with A J. Foyd, takes out Mario Andretti and he's
it looks like half the field before the green flag
even flies, there's a red flag, and of course a J.
(15:09):
Foyd's furious and Andretti speiris. He's shoving it. They're shoving
each other after the wreck, and you can hear Andretti,
you know what, he's just frustrated and he's mad. But anyways,
there's eight three there's a wreck. Um gosh, just on
and on and on like this electrical failure is there's
throttle problems, engine problems. Uh, bad handling, mccannic by all
(15:29):
the way through, right, Okay, So all right, man, here
we are. We're up to Michael where Michael Andretti, who
is his son, is now attempting right, so you know
he's gonna give it a go for the family. Here,
Michael's gonna take the victory, right and he's starting would
yeah exactly. And what's interesting is I just remember the
eighty two race I just mentioned. He's teammates with Kevin Cogan.
(15:49):
I can imagine can you imagine that the tension between uh,
you know, in the pits. I guess if Mario and
Kevin are in the same pits, you know, just being
that his son was racing on the same team. I
can't imagine what that would have been like. I didn't
I didn't realize that until just this morning. Now, he
didn't have it that bad in that first race. It
was his second race there and he got in eighth place. Yeah,
(16:13):
not bad, not so you know, again he was right
in there nine four I think prior to that it
was rookie year, he had a fifth place finish. He
did even better. Um, but then again the same thing
befalls him. Yeah that the he just has this this
string of bad luck and he drops out to CV
joint failure. There's a bad pit stop strategy. Yeah, bad
(16:34):
pitt stop strategy. Eighty six, eighty seven, He's got the
CV joint failure. His engine blows on the front stretch
in ninet nine. Uh, let's see a break fire. It
just goes on and on. Ben, It's like this, It's amazing.
And you know the thing is he thought he was
gonna win. You know, there's so many times when he
actually ran a really good race and something happened and
(16:56):
he had to settle for second place, he had to
settle for fifth place, he had to settle for whatever.
But um, a lot of people have said about Michael
Andretti that he's probably the best driver who has never
won the Yeah, you'll hear that a lot. And specifically,
I think what you're referring to Scott is uh something
like the race he had uh half a lap lead
(17:21):
over second place and then with eleven laps to go,
the fuel pump blow. Do you see what I mean? Ben?
When I sent you this a long time ago, we
had this idea that we're going to do this podcast
we've been and I wrote to him, I said, you know,
there there's this Andretti curse thing, and I know it
sounds kind of funny, but really look into the numbers
and what happens and and go through it year by
(17:41):
year and you'll see this pattern emerge that you can't explain.
It's so odd the things that happened to the Andretti
family there. I mean, I know that I know that
that's going to happen occasionally, but is it going to
happen sixty seven times to the same family, Right, It's like, statistically,
at what point does this become unbelievable bulk, especially with
such with such um dominating drivers. In two thousand he
(18:04):
gets even closer as Michael because he if the race
had not been stopped for rain Scott, he would have won.
That's what most people believe. You know, that's and that
happened again as a team owner because he he you know,
finished driving around two thousand one. I think his final
rate actually rather his last race he thought was gonna
(18:25):
be um. Yeah, he said it was going to be
his last race. Um, now'll find out later. He comes
back for two thousand seven, two thive and seven. But
he does come back even as a team owner. And
here is where the Andretti's do have a small amount
of success, right because as a team owner he's very
(18:45):
successful there. Michael Andretti is because he has they have
one Indianapolis um um as a as a team owner.
So you know that that's that's something I guess in
the Andretti win category, right, Um, But the problem is
that you know both of his drivers the year after
have both uh you know, taken off to another team
(19:05):
right afterwards. But but you know, still, that's that's a
victory in my book. Well, and let's also go to
Marco son. That's Michael's son. So it's Mario's grandson. Uh. Michael,
as I think we may have mentioned, comes out of
retirement to race with his son and this let's see,
(19:26):
this is mid two thousands tire and Marco is maybe
gonna finally break the curse. Two five, yeah, three laps
to go. He passes his father and uh he takes
a pretty impressive lead, but up creeping behind comes Sam
Hornish Jr. And he catches him on the final lap. Now,
(19:48):
this is one that we talked about in our Best
Lap Laps, Best Last Laps episode because this is the
second closest finish in intory. It was an incredible pass
right there at the end of it was a real
nail bitter right to the last second. You think, as
a as a rookie, what a great story this is
gonna be. I mean, it was all set up that
he was, you know, hopefully going to be uh going
(20:08):
to be the winner, but he just lost, I mean
right at the finished line. Um. So unfortunately Marco didn't
win that one. In Marco who is again that's Michael's son. Um,
he is continued. Unfortunately, he's continuing this thing, I mean
right up until right until two thousand twelves. We'll find out,
because I've got a quick little thing on two twelve.
But um, two thousands six you just mentioned, I think
(20:31):
it was two thousands six, not five. Um. And then
in two thousand seven he was caught up in a
big crash with Dan Weldon. Uh, flipped upside down, you know,
wasn't injured really all that seriously. Um. In two thousand eight,
he was the fastest car to track. Um. However, Uh,
they made some adjustment to his wing at the end
of the race and just made him non competitive. He
is only able to get like maybe third place. I
(20:52):
think it was two thou two thousand nine. Again, first turn,
first lap, so he's involved in a crash. Um does
don't even make it to turn to in the first
and you know, the first lap. So again Marco is
continuing this thing. And do you see what I mean, Ben,
this is just on and on and on. And then
there's Jeff. I was gonna say, don't don't stop. Now
I'm not going to. I'm getting near the end. I mean,
(21:14):
people are probably getting, you know, fatigued by hearing people Jeff.
There's Jeff who is Mario's um, Mario's son, so you know,
in addition to Michael Lee as Jeff um so it's
Michael's brother. He only gives it three shots. In n
he finished in fifteenth place. In N he had a
wreck due to a rear wheel hub that broke off
(21:34):
during the race. UM. So he spun out and had
a wreck there. Um in nine that was his last
five hundred. He crashed out again. Um and that was
after a tough day two. I mean it was just
that he had he had been the first driver to
spend out in these warm up lanes that they had
um had just installed. So that was kind of an
embarrassment as well. Um, just bad news. And then Jeff
(21:55):
isn't the last one. Yeah, let's mention. Remember we said
Aldo on Dretti Mario his twin brother. Well, he has
a son named John and John also has a good
career in motor sports and a bad career with the
Indi five. Dred will say a dismal Indi five career,
just as it just as all other Andretti's have. Um. Now,
(22:17):
I mean aside from you know the one victory and
sixty nine and then the two s team owner which
I'm just now looking at. Um the team owner wins
came with uh in two thousand five and two thousand
and six. I believe, yes, UM, I think that's right.
So John drops out due to engine failure. Uh he
spun exiting the pits in eighty nine ignition failure, suspension damage. Um.
(22:45):
He through, he finished, but he wasn't what they would
call a factor in the race. UM. He lost his
mirror in two thousand seven and crashed a little bit
before halfway through. So bad. UH. In two thousand eight
was a tough race, no huge engine problems, but it
wasn't competitive. In two thousand nine, Uh, he had to
(23:08):
qualify on bump day yep, and so he just wasn't.
He wasn't even on the lead lap when they finally
finished the race. He finished nineteenth. Now I mentioned you
know what I keep going back and forth unless I
do have the number. Now, Michael's team has won twice
in two thousand five with driver Dan Weldon and then
again in two thousand seven with Dario Frankati. UM. So
those you know, he he count he himself counsels as
(23:29):
wins at Indie UM. I kind of do too. I
kind of see that as a as an Andretti success
at Indy UM. But man, do you see what I'm
talking about? Ben? In this thing? There's this there's this
black hole around Indianapolis for the Andretti family and they
can't get out of it. They just can't. They can't win.
They can't pull off a victory there for some reason.
Out of we've mentioned sixty plus starts, we're nearing seventy
(23:51):
and uh, you know this goes right up until two
thousand twelve, because went before we get to two thousand twelve.
You got something to tell me, now, Scott. We have
moved bravely into the future of books that aren't on paper.
Let's move bravely into the future of the Onrettes, or
at least the recent past. Yeah, the very recent past,
because this is last year's race. The two thousand twelve race,
(24:12):
and again, man, can you believe that the the Andretti
curse comes up once again with Marco who is again
that's Mario's grandson, Michael's son. Um. Now, with only thirteen
lats to go, he crashes out in turn one where
he had a shot at the wind. Now I think
he had kind of a rough day, but he was
battling back and again trying to make a pass and
(24:33):
turn one ended up in four place, and you know,
in the place that's after starting fourth in the race.
And I think somebody had mentioned to him at the end,
you know, when when you're gonna snap this curse? And
he said, you know what, I don't believe in the curse.
So it's it's noted again and again. In two thousand twelve,
he says, I don't believe in the curse. I just
don't know what it is. I don't know how we're
(24:53):
gonna get, you know, paraphrasing, I don't know what's happening here. Um.
So it's like they know, they know. And you know
that that interview with carn Driver where Mario was, you know,
talking about the curse, and you know how he spins
it as a blessing Um, they're well aware of what's
going on, what people are saying about it. But man,
I really think that if people look into the details
(25:15):
of this uh approaching you know, seventies starts at Indianapolis
and find out, you know, what's happened to the Andretti
is all along the way, there's some really strange, strange
things happening there. And I'm not I'm not buying into
the whole curse thing. I just think it's bad luck.
And I mean, you know, sometimes of course as driver
air and things like that, but over and over and
over again, Ben, it's just too much of a coincidence.
(25:37):
And a lot of these things are a lot of
these things that break the race for an Andretti driver
are going to be things that are beyond the driver's control.
And that's what's weird. And they've been so close so
many times, and then you know, like these odd things
will happen where they're really fast, they qualify fast, they
start the race and for whatever reason, the car is
just not running well, nothing happened to it between qualifying
(26:00):
and the race day, and the car just doesn't run
the same as it didn't qualifying. You know, it could
be atmospheric conditions could be anything, but it's just not
running the way it should and there's no good explanation
for it at all. And we're going to, um, we're
going to be over the move when the quote unquote
curses finally broken because it sounds like both of us
think this is just bad luck. It is. It's unusual. Um,
(26:23):
not because it's just bad luck, but it's unusual because
these are superior drivers, you know. Now See, I would
love to say Marco is going to snap this thing
pretty soon. He's gonna win. INT's going to be a
great day, right. I would love to say that what's
going to break? Though? But you know how many people,
you know, after watching and ready for twenty five years,
(26:43):
said Marrow is going to break this thing. He's gonna
win it sometime. He's gonna snap this curse. He's gonna
win it. You know, before when he finally retires, you know,
they were sure he was gonna win at some point,
because that's just too long to go without a win
at once, you know, for this one race. And yet
he was successful everywhere else. Every other race, yeah, every
other race, every other track, every other every other group,
(27:06):
every other you know, and he's just a successful guy
and that's why he gets the you know, the notoriety
that he does. He's again, he's one of the supposed
automobile or automotive royalty, you know, these these racing families. UM,
I just don't get it, Ben, I don't I don't understand,
and I really do hope that that someday soon Marco
steps up and and wins the D five. Maybe this year,
(27:28):
but but then again, I've been saying that since maybe
ten years from now, we'll be saying maybe this year. Um.
Before before we head into some listener mail, Scott, I
wanted to read one part of this interview that was
just fascinating to me, and it's not really related, but
it's one of the biggest questions that you can never
(27:49):
ask a legend like Mario and Dretti car and driver
in this interview, asked him, um, is there anything you
would do differently in your career? And he had one
I had when he had to regret, well, I think
he had let me. I'll read the quote, so uh so,
Andretti says, there are a couple of decisions I would
have changed after winning the F one title for Lotus example,
(28:12):
For example, I had a choice of driving for Alpha
Romeo or McLaren and I should have gone with McLaren
instead of Alpha. Other than that, I would have minimized
the mistakes I made. But really look at the span
of my career and it's something people dream about and
to be spared major injury. I had some moments along
the way, but being able to retire on my own
terms after having driven those decades when safety conditions were
(28:32):
more precarious than today and my lucky or what. And
I think that's a pretty cool way to end this,
because you know, yes, the Indy five has been bad
luck since nineteen sixty nine for the Andretti's, but um,
in comparison to the especially Mario Andretti's just profoundly ground
(28:53):
their breaking career. Uh and the length of it and
as he said, no major injuries. I think I have
to agree with Ario. He's a very very lucky driver.
I think, you know what, I absolutely agree. I mean,
I just wish that they could get over this this
hump and win this and win this one race. But um,
you know, when you look at everything that he's done,
like you said, this fan of his career, everything that
(29:14):
he's been been involved with in the times that he
was involved with him, you know, when F one was
terribly dangerous to be involved in and IndyCar was terribly
dangerous as well. Um, I think he's his whole family
has been very lucky. I mean, you don't drive two
hundred and thirty miles an hour, you know, for you know,
hundreds of thousands of miles cumulative. You know, all these
guys um and and come away, you know, alive for
(29:37):
no good reason. I mean there's a lot of skill involved,
but I think there's a lot of good luck involved
there as well, because sometimes things happen that you just
you can't avoid. And they've been very, very fortunate. Yeah. Also,
Mario Andretti, huge F one fan, thinks that, uh, it
needs to be more prevalent in the United States. No Good,
says F one is underestimating. The US fan base is
(30:00):
a big proponent of this thing. And hopefully, you know,
we'll get more F one races here in the States. Yeah,
that's it. We'll hopefully we'll see that. Um, hopefully we
will see more F one races here and and Andretti
winning the ind that would be nice. Hopefully this year
why not. Yeah, maybe book end it nicely. Make it
twenty nineteen, so it's a decade thing. But I I
(30:20):
hope every year, just just because I feel like it is.
Why not, it's statistically weird. Do you want to do
some listener mail? I would. Okay, this comes from our
buddy and super fan, Aaron Cooper. Uh. Aaron Cooper, you know,
has talked to us various ways, and he is a
fan of several house up work shows. So hello Aaron,
(30:42):
and he says, this is in no way car related.
But I'm listening to the Henry Ford fan mail podcast
right now. I just thought I mentioned that here in
our small rural town in Kansas, the local furniture store
and funeral home have been owned and operated by the
same family since way back. I don't know if they
ever located in the same building. I think it's a
combination that was just the norm back then. Mm hmm.
(31:05):
Maybe this has something to do with what you said
where it's not all that unusual, and that you know
that cabinet making I think was or furniture making, and
all that speculation. It seems like that's a good match,
So maybe it's not all that unusual. In a small
town for something like this to happen. Yeah, and uh,
this this email refers to our episode on on whether
(31:26):
or not bank robbers really wrote fan mail to Henry Ford.
And we talked about a very interesting thing that we
won't spoil it for you. You'll have to listen to
it if you can. I say who was about, Yes,
of course it was Bonnie and Clyde and as well
as John Dillinger right who maybe maybe didn't write to
Henry Ford about their their Ford automobiles yet. So if
(31:47):
you want to hear the answer to that, go ahead
and tune in. We'll also you also learn a little
bit more about combination furniture stores and funeral homes. Um,
so we're gonna head out. We hope that everybody enjoyed
this episode on the Andretti Curse and let us know
what you think. Uh yeah, dig into it. Look at
the list for yourself, because I mean, I know we
(32:08):
went rapid fire through the list, but but look at
the list and really focus on it and make your
own mind up. I mean, decide what you think, because
there's something going on there. Yeah, and uh, let us
know also if you've heard of any other racing curses. Uh.
We would like to hear from you on our Facebook page.
You can drop us a line on Twitter and h
(32:30):
let's see Scott. We have an email address, right, that's right,
and it's car stuff at Discovery dot com. For more
on this and thousands of other topics, this is how
stuff works dot com. Let us know what you think.
Send an email to podcast at how stuff works dot
com
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