August 19, 2013 • 33 mins
Women are waiting longer to have children, but when does fertility take a nosedive? Caroline and Cristen explore the science of female fertility and why 35 isn't necessarily the beginning of the end for natural conception.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
Welcome to stuff Mom Never told you. From House to
works dot Com. Hello and welcome to the podcast. I'm
Kristen and I'm Caroline. And Caroline, can you hear that?
What's It's a fate ticking sound? Sound of our fertility
(00:25):
clocks down? I wondered why I was so anxious all
the time. Yeah, it's because we, as females, were born
with a finite amount of eggs and at some point
they're going to run out. Oh lord, Yeah, we're talking
about fertility today. Why are we talking about fertility today? Because, uh, well,
(00:49):
childbirth comes up a lot in the podcast, but we
also talk about delaying child birth and career and all
those different things that really go into that child birth
and pregnancy question. And one thing, especially as as I
get older, I started to think about it more. Without
child bearing directly on my horizons, I think every now
(01:13):
and then, like, well, how long do I have? Yeah?
And I mean there's probably, you know, more than just
a personal reason why you feel like that. It could
have something to do with the fact that you are,
as a woman, bombarded by stuff in the news, books, articles,
studies all about how that clock is ticking. You're running
(01:34):
out of time, and by the time you hit thirty five,
that little timer is gonna ding and you're done for sister.
But at the same time, while all that's going on,
the fastest growing rates for child bearing are among women
who were over forty. This was recently reported by NPR
and other news outlets. So we figured it was time
to talk about fertility. Yeah, how long can you have
(01:57):
a baby? Let's start with when women are most fertile.
A lot of the information it's going to come from
the American Society for Reproductive Medicine Mayo Clinic, National Institutes
of Health, and Parenting Magazine. So tell me, Caroline, when
women are most likely to get pregnant sometime around finals,
(02:18):
when they're twenty college finals, College finals. Yeah, when you're
studying for your college finals, when you're twenty. Uh, that's
when you're most fertile, between twenty and twenty four years old,
and by the time you are forty, between forty and
forty five, that fertility has dropped. It's it's a strange
percentage range here between fifty and so from either a
(02:42):
dice roll to just don't even try right exactly? Okay? Uh?
And for an idea of what's going on in between
those forty five years of US moms have their first
baby in fact after thirty five. And that's notable because
thirty five is often a number tossed around as when
(03:06):
you really ought to start thinking about fertility. That's when
that clock for a lot of women and a lot
of what we hear, at least about fertility, that's when
the alarm bells start to go off. Um. But like
I said, a lot of women over forty are starting
to have kids and as a result, The Wall Street
(03:27):
Journal reported that gynecologists are talking to patients more often
about fertility. Yeah, now, why why is this even an issue?
Why why are we talking about it? And a lot
of it has to do with what Kristin touched on
a second ago, which is that a lot of US
women are waiting longer to have kids, were waiting longer
to get married, We're waiting longer to have kids, whether
that's for career or travel or school. You know, all
(03:50):
of a sudden, there there is a lot of concern about, well, wait,
but I'm not done doing X y Z yet, climbing
the career ladder or you know, going to Thailand or
what have you um so, how long you know, how
long can I wait until I have a child? Yeah,
and we're gonna offer a fertility age breakdown just to
get a sense of how are our fertility kind of
(04:13):
wanes over the years. But if you start getting a
little bit anxious as we start throwing out some of
these numbers, keep in mind that there is more to
these percentages that than just uh, than just statistics. Right now,
there's a lot of nuance going on that has led
some people to say, wait a minute, do we need
(04:35):
to be freaking out so much about thirty five? Um So,
like we said, twenty four year old women are very fertile.
They have a twenty percent chance of getting pregnant and
half the risk of gestational diabetes as a forty year
old woman, and they also have miscarriage rates as low
(04:56):
as nine point five percent. So pretty much, if you
are a healthy twenty to twenty four year old woman,
this is prime baby having time because your body is
all like, hey, what's up, I can I'm super fertile
and I can bounce back from pregnancy really quickly. Yeah, Like,
this is the age where you're probably at your fittest um.
(05:19):
You will probably be able to have a healthy baby
most likely and be healthier yourself after the pregnancy. There
will be, like you said, a quicker bounce back time
and quicker weight drop time. But there are issues like
that as far as concern for your body what it
will do to your body, but also that concern about
delaying work or career during this period. Um. Now moving
(05:41):
on to a hell, let's look at a healthy thirty
year old woman. So we've moved on from the early
twenties to now you're thirty. You have a chance of
getting pregnant every month. So that means for every one
hundred uh women trying to get pregnant in one cycle,
twenty will and that was the same chances we saw
for the year old. Yeah, so it hasn't really declined
(06:02):
by the time you hit thirty, But what has changed
is that miscarriage rate, yeah, which has increased to eleven
point seven per cent. And when by the time you
hit thirty five and after that miscarriage rate does rise
to about eight percent. And interestingly, you're more likely to
have multiples in your late thirties. It's like your body's
(06:23):
like get them all out, I want to make a
lot you waited long enough. Um. And on the side note,
we have not done podcasts focusing on miscarriage or on
in fertility. So for people listening right now who may
have experienced both of those things, UM, we certainly need
to talk about those issues as well. UM. But moving
(06:47):
on now though, to a healthy forty year old, what
do things look like? Well, you got a five percent
chance because we always hear about how fertility quote unquote
no dives at thirty eight. Yeah, but also a startling
statistic is that for a healthy forty year old, of
(07:09):
those pregnancies and in miscarriage. Why is that Because at
that point you have issues of a regular ovulation, possibly endometriosis,
you could face chromosome or abnormalities, but also issues like
your uterine lining may not be thick enough, or the
blood supply to the uterus maybe insufficient. You also have
an increased risk at that age of placenta previa and
(07:31):
placental abruption, which we have talked about before in the podcast. Now.
Scientists have long puzzled over what exactly is going on
on a DNA level, and the National Institutes of Health
in May publish a new theory about this and the
new theory maintains that as women age, their eggs actually
(07:53):
become riddled with DNA damage and end up dying off
because their DNA repairs. This ums were out, and this
links back to our episode on the breast cancer gene
brocco um and Brocco one specifically, UH they've found that
defects in DNA repair gene Brocco one may also lead
(08:14):
to egg DNA damage, and so your fertility is linked
to the egg cell's capacity to repair double straight of
DNA breaks. But if you have a defect in that
Brocco one gene, then the eggs cannot repair themselves. So
a woman with that gene mutation will probably exhaust hero
varian supply sooner, right, And so because of all of
(08:38):
those issues that we just mentioned, most women do become
unable to have a successful pregnancy sometime in their mid forties.
And what I learned is that you're not actually fertile
up until menopause. It's not like someone flips off a
switch suddenly and you go from being super fertile to
completely unfertile. Um. So the average age from menopau us
(09:00):
is fifty one, but you start losing that reserve of
eggs before the time that you've actually become completely infertile
or unable to give birth. Yeah. This is due to
something called a gradual loss of quote unquote ovarian reserve,
which is I'm now thinking about my ovaries as like
a like a stock room and a grocery store that
(09:22):
I don't know. If someone walks in and it's like, oh,
how many do we have this month? Not enough artichokes,
I don't know. So as we age that ovarian reserve,
that stock room uh diminishes, and our follicles actually become
less sensitive to follical stimulating hormone, so they require more
stimulation for an egg to mature and ovulate, which is
(09:45):
why we see things like that higher rate of miscarriage.
And on top of that, we also have the issues
with egg quality deteriorating because of things like the increased
frequency of genetic abnormalities UM and also that can lead
to the a higher risk of Down syndrome and other
chromosomal disorders which are linked to getting pregnant when we
(10:08):
are older. Right, And one thing that I will admit
that I had not thought of before we were doing
the research for this is that even with in vitro
fertilization UM. At forty three, the chance of a successful
pregnancy is less than five percent because in vitro UH
doesn't just automatically magically make you super fertile and super
(10:29):
able to have like fifty children in one go. UM,
you still have to take into consideration the basic like
health of your eggs. Essentially, yeah and UM for women
older between forty five and forty nine, and I believe
this is also specifically related to in vitro only point
(10:52):
oh three percent a woman that old can have babies,
But then it's a question of once you get that old,
there are not that many women who are probably trying
to get pregnant. But for men, guess why y'all are
so fertile? Men's infertility usually doesn't sit in until they
(11:13):
turn around sixty, although studies in recent years have also
looked at sperm degeneration over the years, and even though
you might still be producing it older gents, it is
not as of of pristine quality as it is when
you are younger. So their sperm is also going a
(11:34):
little salt and pepper, A little salt and pepper. Well,
it's notable because UM, A lot of times when we
consider age and fertility and risk of chromosomeal disorders like
something like Down syndrome, it's usually like linked to the
mother and O sites. But this new research is saying, oh,
actually no, we also need to look at the quality
(11:56):
of the sperm as well. So well, I mean my parents,
My mom was thirty five and my dad was forty
when I was born. So it's it's funny, like I
have a totally different perspective on like parental age. Yeah everything.
My mother turned forty when while she was pregnant with me.
Actually um. And so if if you're feeling a little
(12:19):
bit anxious about all of this, you're not alone. There's
been a lot of concern about these numbers and out
and out fearmongering surrounding fertility and age, especially because we
are delaying childbirth, and by we, I mean women are
delaying childbirth more than ever before. And in two thousand two,
(12:40):
Sylvia and Hewlett wrote a book called Creating a Life,
and it really sparked a lot of renewed panic over
women's fertility versus career planning. Yeah, she basically said that
you should have your kids now while you're young and
spry or just don't have any at all, and that
you should plan ladies for grandchildren the way you plan
(13:03):
for that corner office. No comment, but um, she cited
a statistic that of professional forty year old woman women
deeply regretted not having kids, Like really, way to make
everybody panic, Like, oh, you think you're happy now with
your career and your dog and your husband or your partner. No,
you won't when you're forty, You're going to be so sad. Well,
(13:26):
and I'm sure that there are I don't think that
she made that statistic up, but it's more of how
that statistic was broadcast out with things like a related
Time magazine cover story which said, quote, listen to a
successful woman discuss her failure to bear a child, and
the grief comes in layers of bitterness and regret, Like wow, okay.
(13:47):
There was a New York magazine cover baby panic. The
UK Observe or even jumped in with a cover story
one It's too late to have a baby And and
this was preceded by a two thousand one now kind
of infamous ad campaign by the American Society for Reproductive
Medicine called Preserve Your Fertility, and it showed a baby
(14:08):
bottle in the shape of an hour glass, to which
Newsweek said, should you have your baby now? And um.
While these kinds of concerns are are certainly valid for
women to pay attention to, shaking us and saying just
get pregnant already isn't the way to help us sort
(14:28):
through these questions of do I have a baby now?
Do I have a baby later? Door even want to
have a baby. Oh yeah, I gotta go to work now,
let's talk about this later, right. Well, then enter Gene
Twins at The Atlantic, who wrote the book The Impatient
Woman's Guide to Getting Pregnant, and she wrote a very fascinating,
very long article about not only getting pregnant at different
(14:52):
ages or perhaps getting pregnant later in life, but also
just that that fertility fearmongering that we were talking about.
Gene Twins herself is a mother of three, all of
whom were born after thirty five, and she starts off
her article by talking about like how how concerned she
was about when and whether she would even get to
have children because of a divorce that she went through. Yeah,
(15:13):
and she basically took a closer look at those statistics
that we tossed out about the fertility and age that
are sited over and over and over again, especially zeroing
in on that thirty five drop off, and she uncovered
(15:35):
more recent studies that once you tease a part, the
methodology seemed to contradict very strongly just how um whether
or not those numbers are really the gospel um. For instance,
biostatistician David Dunson, who's now at Duke University, found that
there is only a four percent drop in pregnancy rates
(15:58):
from age eight to thirty seven. That doesn't sound terrifying,
and she underscored this that often cited fertility statistic that
one of three women between thirty five and thirty nine
won't get pregnant after one year of trying is wait
for people based on French birth records from sixteen seventy
(16:21):
to eighteen thirty. Right. I was talking to my older
sister about this whole fertility age thing. Uh, And I
mentioned that about the French birth records and she I
think she might have pounded the table. She was so angry.
What what then? Yeah? I mean and twins, As Twins
(16:42):
points out, like that's in an era before antibiotics or
lightbulbs yeah, so so let's I think, you know. She
she definitely points out that updated studies and statistics are
in order. Um, talking further about done since two thousand
four study examining the chances of pregnancy among seven hundred
(17:05):
and seventy European women, uh Dunson found that with sex
at least twice a week, two of women thirty five
to thirty nine conceived within a year, compared to six
percent of women twenty seven to thirty four. And that,
I mean, that's really not a huge difference, right, No,
(17:25):
although and not to be crass, they were probably some
people listen and saying, oh, that's great. Where am I
going to find time to have sex fice a week? Okay?
The schedule that in I put it in your plan,
your your day day planning, and put it on your
your get a shared Google calendar. There was also a
March study and Fertility and Sterility, which was led by
(17:45):
Kenneth Rothman of Boston University, and it looked at around
three thousand Danish women as they tried to get pregnant,
and he found similarly not a huge drop between the
chances of thirty forty year olds getting preg know within
a year compared to twenty and thirty four year olds.
He found that among women who have sex during their
(18:06):
fertile times, and that's that's the thing. You can't look
at when people are doing it, how often they're doing it,
how much, how they're trying to get pregnant. And he
found that seventy eight percent of that older group got
pregnant within a year compared to among the younger folks.
So hi their way a lot of pregnanciesveling. Yeah, And
(18:29):
there was another study by Anne Steiner, who's an associate
professor at the University of North Carolina School of Medicine,
and those results were actually presented in June of this year,
so not too long ago. Um Steiner found that among
thirty eight and thirty nine year olds who had been
pregnant before, eight percent of white women of normal weight
got pregnant naturally within six months. She did find, however,
(18:52):
that the percentage was lower among women of other ethnic backgrounds,
and among the overweight. There was not a huge drop
in fertility or conceiving until the age of forty So
what's going on here? Where? Why do we have these
kinds of conflicting statistics? Off some saying oh, you know what,
you're gonna hit thirty five and you're gonna have that
(19:13):
major drop off, and then these other studies coming around
and saying, actually, not so much. Um. Basically, it turns
out it kind of turns on challenges of accurately gauging
natural conception because of things like how modern birth records
are a bit uninformative because a lot of women have
(19:35):
their kids in their twenties and then they hop on
birth control or have sterilization surgery to prevent pregnancy during
their thirties and forties. And also if you say, well,
why don't you just ask a couple how long it
took them to conceive or how long they've been trying,
and self reporting is not the most reliable and accurate
(19:56):
way to gauge something now. I mean, I can't even remember.
Like I will go home after recording the podcast and
my roommay will be like, so, what's your Christen talk
about today? And I'm like, something about something about grocery
store stock rooms. I think, yeah, I think it was
about artichokes. I can't recall. So yeah, asking people to
self report about anything, especially something as private and personal
(20:18):
as their sexual behavior, and patterns, it is a little unreliable.
One of the best ways to measure fertility is cycle variability,
which is looking at the chance of getting pregnant if
a couple has sex, like we just said, on the
most fertile day of a woman's cycle. Those studies that
are based on cycle variability monitor couples as they attempt
(20:40):
to get pregnant, rather than asking them after the fact
to remember how long it took. And it seems like
those more recent studies that take that cycle variability into
account and really gauge the pregnancy around that seems like
that's where you see those more optimistics statistics in terms
(21:01):
of older women and by older I mean over thirty five,
which gosh, that's not actually older, but older compared to
women in their twenties junior in college. Yes, um, it
does seem like when you take all of that into account,
the statistics are not that scary. Now, all of this said,
(21:21):
things are going to vary from person to person, but
at least maybe that can diminish some of the anxiety
around it. Although although apparently, at least according to more
recent reports we've read in the news, a lot of
women aren't that freaked out they actually think that they'll
(21:44):
be able to have a baby after their forty because
we're seeing a lot of celebrities doing it. Yeah, Halle Berry,
Nicole Kidman, people like that, who you know. They're having
these fantastically glamorous lives, wonderful shoes and great skin, and
they are giving birth to all of these beautiful babies. Yeah,
Halle Berry got pregnant when she was forty six. Kelly
(22:07):
Preston Beater, she got pregnant at forty seventeen. Off also
had had a baby at forty one. I wonder where
her shoes are like, but it's just a lot of
Tom's anyway. Yeah. So a lot of trend stories now
that we're seeing have a lot to do with women
who aren't so much worried that that clock is ticking
as they are sort of overly optimistic that it's not
(22:29):
ticking at all. I look great, I feel great. I
feel like I'm twenty. I feel like I'm a junior
in college taking finals. So I should be able to
have a baby, right well. Uh. An article from NPR
Inven talked about a survey that was funded by the
biopharmaceutical company Ian D Serranto, which found women dramatically underestimate
(22:50):
how much fertility declines with age and how much time
it actually takes to get pregnant. And this is in
line with a twenty eleven New York Times article we
found on it talked to a lot of women who
were very surprised that they could not get pregnant immediately.
I mean, I will say that was a classic kind
of New York Times trend piece though, where they talked to,
(23:12):
you know, a number of very well off women who
I don't know it was. The tone of it was almost, um,
I don't know, derogatory towards them, because they would talk
about how, you know, she she looks so young because
she's had some botox, and but she can't, you know,
she can't get filler and her tummy in the form
(23:33):
of a baby. These women are so dumb, you know,
Like it was I don't know, but it did. It did.
Quote Dr Ingrid Roadie, who's an associate clinical professor of
obstetrics and gynecology at the David Geffen School of Medicine
at u c l A, and she said, they all
think they're more fertile than they are. I have patients
who say, I'm forty eight, but everyone thinks I'm thirty five.
(23:54):
Shouldn't I be as fertile as a thirty eight year old?
And I mean, I don't know. I feel like that
case of a forty eight year old a really wanting
to have a baby. Forty eight year olds listening correct
me if I'm wrong, and be how many forty eight
year old women look in the mirror and think that,
based on their lack of crow's feet that they're that
(24:17):
that must reflect in the youth of their ovaries. You know,
do you feel like that's just kind of a case
of anecdote. Yeah, I mean it for sure, it could
be completely anecdotal, But I mean it's entirely possible that that, um,
maybe women who don't understand that just because you do
(24:39):
look great and you exercise and you go to yoga
every day, you know, being limber and beautiful and wrinkle
lists on the outside, that has nothing to do with
the fact that your ovaries are degenerating every year. Well,
it's also compelling because when you consider the fact that
Sylvia and Hewlett's book Creating a Life that set off
(25:00):
all that fearmongering came out in two thousand two, and
these articles are coming out ten years later saying, actually,
we're not concerned enough, so can we find a happy
medium somewhere? Because I feel like I see more of
the Sylvia and Hewlett end of it, saying you better
have a baby, you know, go ahead and do it.
(25:21):
You've got energy now. Yeah, it's gonna, you know, make
a dent in your paycheck, but you've got to make
it work and work up until you know, with that pregnancy,
until you go into labrin and get back in. Um.
I feel like there's more than more of that than
this idea that we're seeing so many older celebrities having
(25:41):
babies and who knows whether like whether those are quote
unquote natural pregnancy or not. Well. But also I mean
talking about anecdotally, you know, when you talk to your friends,
like I feel like I have way more friends and
acquaintances and colleagues and all that stuff, who are like, no,
I want to have babies now because I want to
(26:03):
be young with my kids, and I want to play
with my kids. You know, my parents were older, so
I want to be able to get down on the
floor and play with them and not run out of energy.
I feel like, I hear that a lot more from
people I know than like, I'll get around to it exactly.
And the older that I get, the more those conversations
definitely come up, and the more cognizant they are of
(26:27):
a specific time frame, because it used to just be oh,
do you want to have babies or not in a
very kind of abstract way, and now it's I want
to be pregnant by the time I am fill in
the blank, you know. Um so, oh, so what do
we take away from all of this, Caroline? Um? I think,
(26:47):
not to not to turn this into a cop out,
but I mean, I think what I learned and what
was reinforced is that your eggs are not my eggs, Kristen,
Thank god, because that would be creepy and almost a possible.
But we all, I mean, we all have different health
experiences that um dictate you know, whether you will be
(27:08):
able to get pregnant at thirty seven and whether I would. Yeah,
I mean, And and the tips honestly for minimizing pregnancy
risk for women over thirty five are pretty much the
same for those under thirty five. It's stuff like taking
prenatal vitamins, seeing your doctor for pregnancy checkups, eating well, exercising,
cutting out nicotine, alcohol, drugs, things that you should do anyway,
(27:32):
essentially being healthy. Um. But UM, I take away from
this that thirty five is not necessarily the signpost. You know,
it's it's not. Um, I don't know. Yeah, I think
it's it's not. Thirty five is not a time when
you're like counting down to it and you start to panic.
(27:52):
I mean, I think we have quite a bit more
time after that. So I don't want anybody to feel
guilty for choosing a career right now, or travel or
school over, or just not having a baby right now
because they just don't want one now or or ever.
And I know that I'm sure that there are women
(28:14):
thirty five and older who are listening, and you're the
ones that I'm so curious to hear from because I'm
wondering what kind of external pressure for women over thirty
five that they get, because I have a feeling that
hearing these kinds of statistics affect us a lot differently
(28:34):
than they affect them, because for you and me, it's
not we're not quite there yet. But I wonder for
women who are in that demographic UM, and men who
are in relationships with women who are in that demographic.
How how that goes? Um? And what what your doctor
does and doesn't tell you. And also this whole celebrity factor.
(28:55):
Is it really something that's altering our perception of utility? Um?
So let us know your thoughts on this one. I'm
I'm gonna be really curious to hear what folks have
to say. Mom Stuff at Discovery dot com is where
you can send your letters. You can also tweet us
and mom Stuff podcast and leave us a note over
on Facebook like us while you're at it. And we've
(29:17):
got a couple of letters to read. And now back
to our letters. Well, we got a couple of letters
here on our episode on a s MR. We got
a surprising number of letters on that one, some from
people who knew exactly what we were talking about and
others who didn't have a language. You didn't know that
a SMR was a thing until they listen to the podcast.
(29:39):
So I have one here from Laura, who has experienced
a SMR and she even watches the video. She said,
I was super excited when I saw the title of
your latest podcast, and even more excited when you started
off by saying that you had experienced a s MR yourselves.
It's such a weird concept to get across to people
who don't experience it, but you did a lovely job
(30:00):
like many other people. I had experienced a SMR, but
I didn't know what it was or that other people
had it. About a year ago, I watched an a
s MR or showing off a Buffy the Vampire Slayer collection.
I'm a Buffy nerd. I started off thinking this is
so silly and odd that I kept watching, and then
I started to get the tingles upun Clicking through her
(30:21):
other videos, I kept seeing the term a SMR and
the titles and googled it mind blown. I'm still developing
my triggers. Many of the normal things worked, like soft
speaking or deliberate repetitive motions and nail tapping, crinkly sounds,
brushing things. My earliest memory of getting tingles was with
one of my friends in elementary school. She would often
(30:43):
do these very deliberate repetitive motions that made me zonne
out in a good relaxing way. Also, Pbs Staples, Bob Ross,
and why Lana of the Yoga series were soft speakers
who triggered me before I knew what triggering was. For
the role play videos, I do sort of have to
detach myself from the experience to enjoy it. I'm watching
(31:03):
a video of someone pretending to paint my face so
I will look like a tiger. This is crazy for me.
It is really about the soft speaking, actions and sound,
so I prefer the videos that highlight those elements. I
have one here from Carrie, who says that last week
I subscribed to stuff Mom never told you, and I
love it. Hooray, welcome Carrie. We're so happy to have you,
(31:26):
she says. Today, I listened to the A. S. M
R podcast during work, and I was so shocked that
there's a name for this experience. I thought I was
the only one. I had to stop what I was
doing and write this email. I remember having the experiences
a lot during college, when I'd help fellow students write
and edit their college papers, or when i'd explain difficult
concepts in literature to them. I was an English major.
I get an extremely calming, tangling, feeling almost warm and fuzzy,
(31:50):
and it was like the rest of the world was
blocked out. I'd feel completely safe. I think in part,
it was the student's reliance on me to help them
through a task that made me feel this way. I've
also experienced did it one of my first jobs, when
I was training some women on how to use the
company's medical software. I think I'd feel embarrassed because I
hardly knew these people, yet I'd have this brain orgasm
that made me feel comfortable with them. I never told
(32:12):
anyone about these celestial wash a great term feelings. They're
certainly not sexual feelings and not a fetish at all. Honestly,
I don't remember the last time I experienced a s MR,
and I missed the feelings. I think the closest I've
gotten to one in the past few years is reading
a book and hearing and feeling my cat purring next
to me. I'd have to say that these experiences were
(32:32):
primarily in the company of other women. The podcast did
mention a s MR releasing serotonin. I'm currently on an
SSR I medication for anxiety. Part of the reason why
I want a s MR feelings to return is to
help me relax. It's not something that I can force,
though it can only happen naturally. I'm so glad that
I share a SMR with other people and then I'm
(32:53):
not a Weirdoh no, you're not carry And thank you
for writing in, and thanks to everyone who has written in.
Um Stuff at discovery dot com is where you can
email us. You can also follow us on Twitter at
mom Stuff Podcasts and find us on Facebook as well
as on tumbler stuff mom Never Told You dot tumbler
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(33:15):
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you should check them out there at YouTube dot com,
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to subscribe for more on this and thousands of other topics.
Is it how stuff Works dot com
Welcome to stuff Mom Never told you. From House to
works dot Com. Hello and welcome to the podcast. I'm
Kristen and I'm Caroline. And Caroline, can you hear that?
What's It's a fate ticking sound? Sound of our fertility
(00:25):
clocks down? I wondered why I was so anxious all
the time. Yeah, it's because we, as females, were born
with a finite amount of eggs and at some point
they're going to run out. Oh lord, Yeah, we're talking
about fertility today. Why are we talking about fertility today? Because, uh, well,
(00:49):
childbirth comes up a lot in the podcast, but we
also talk about delaying child birth and career and all
those different things that really go into that child birth
and pregnancy question. And one thing, especially as as I
get older, I started to think about it more. Without
child bearing directly on my horizons, I think every now
(01:13):
and then, like, well, how long do I have? Yeah?
And I mean there's probably, you know, more than just
a personal reason why you feel like that. It could
have something to do with the fact that you are,
as a woman, bombarded by stuff in the news, books, articles,
studies all about how that clock is ticking. You're running
(01:34):
out of time, and by the time you hit thirty five,
that little timer is gonna ding and you're done for sister.
But at the same time, while all that's going on,
the fastest growing rates for child bearing are among women
who were over forty. This was recently reported by NPR
and other news outlets. So we figured it was time
to talk about fertility. Yeah, how long can you have
(01:57):
a baby? Let's start with when women are most fertile.
A lot of the information it's going to come from
the American Society for Reproductive Medicine Mayo Clinic, National Institutes
of Health, and Parenting Magazine. So tell me, Caroline, when
women are most likely to get pregnant sometime around finals,
(02:18):
when they're twenty college finals, College finals. Yeah, when you're
studying for your college finals, when you're twenty. Uh, that's
when you're most fertile, between twenty and twenty four years old,
and by the time you are forty, between forty and
forty five, that fertility has dropped. It's it's a strange
percentage range here between fifty and so from either a
(02:42):
dice roll to just don't even try right exactly? Okay? Uh?
And for an idea of what's going on in between
those forty five years of US moms have their first
baby in fact after thirty five. And that's notable because
thirty five is often a number tossed around as when
(03:06):
you really ought to start thinking about fertility. That's when
that clock for a lot of women and a lot
of what we hear, at least about fertility, that's when
the alarm bells start to go off. Um. But like
I said, a lot of women over forty are starting
to have kids and as a result, The Wall Street
(03:27):
Journal reported that gynecologists are talking to patients more often
about fertility. Yeah, now, why why is this even an issue?
Why why are we talking about it? And a lot
of it has to do with what Kristin touched on
a second ago, which is that a lot of US
women are waiting longer to have kids, were waiting longer
to get married, We're waiting longer to have kids, whether
that's for career or travel or school. You know, all
(03:50):
of a sudden, there there is a lot of concern about, well, wait,
but I'm not done doing X y Z yet, climbing
the career ladder or you know, going to Thailand or
what have you um so, how long you know, how
long can I wait until I have a child? Yeah,
and we're gonna offer a fertility age breakdown just to
get a sense of how are our fertility kind of
(04:13):
wanes over the years. But if you start getting a
little bit anxious as we start throwing out some of
these numbers, keep in mind that there is more to
these percentages that than just uh, than just statistics. Right now,
there's a lot of nuance going on that has led
some people to say, wait a minute, do we need
(04:35):
to be freaking out so much about thirty five? Um So,
like we said, twenty four year old women are very fertile.
They have a twenty percent chance of getting pregnant and
half the risk of gestational diabetes as a forty year
old woman, and they also have miscarriage rates as low
(04:56):
as nine point five percent. So pretty much, if you
are a healthy twenty to twenty four year old woman,
this is prime baby having time because your body is
all like, hey, what's up, I can I'm super fertile
and I can bounce back from pregnancy really quickly. Yeah, Like,
this is the age where you're probably at your fittest um.
(05:19):
You will probably be able to have a healthy baby
most likely and be healthier yourself after the pregnancy. There
will be, like you said, a quicker bounce back time
and quicker weight drop time. But there are issues like
that as far as concern for your body what it
will do to your body, but also that concern about
delaying work or career during this period. Um. Now moving
(05:41):
on to a hell, let's look at a healthy thirty
year old woman. So we've moved on from the early
twenties to now you're thirty. You have a chance of
getting pregnant every month. So that means for every one
hundred uh women trying to get pregnant in one cycle,
twenty will and that was the same chances we saw
for the year old. Yeah, so it hasn't really declined
(06:02):
by the time you hit thirty, But what has changed
is that miscarriage rate, yeah, which has increased to eleven
point seven per cent. And when by the time you
hit thirty five and after that miscarriage rate does rise
to about eight percent. And interestingly, you're more likely to
have multiples in your late thirties. It's like your body's
(06:23):
like get them all out, I want to make a
lot you waited long enough. Um. And on the side note,
we have not done podcasts focusing on miscarriage or on
in fertility. So for people listening right now who may
have experienced both of those things, UM, we certainly need
to talk about those issues as well. UM. But moving
(06:47):
on now though, to a healthy forty year old, what
do things look like? Well, you got a five percent
chance because we always hear about how fertility quote unquote
no dives at thirty eight. Yeah, but also a startling
statistic is that for a healthy forty year old, of
(07:09):
those pregnancies and in miscarriage. Why is that Because at
that point you have issues of a regular ovulation, possibly endometriosis,
you could face chromosome or abnormalities, but also issues like
your uterine lining may not be thick enough, or the
blood supply to the uterus maybe insufficient. You also have
an increased risk at that age of placenta previa and
(07:31):
placental abruption, which we have talked about before in the podcast. Now.
Scientists have long puzzled over what exactly is going on
on a DNA level, and the National Institutes of Health
in May publish a new theory about this and the
new theory maintains that as women age, their eggs actually
(07:53):
become riddled with DNA damage and end up dying off
because their DNA repairs. This ums were out, and this
links back to our episode on the breast cancer gene
brocco um and Brocco one specifically, UH they've found that
defects in DNA repair gene Brocco one may also lead
(08:14):
to egg DNA damage, and so your fertility is linked
to the egg cell's capacity to repair double straight of
DNA breaks. But if you have a defect in that
Brocco one gene, then the eggs cannot repair themselves. So
a woman with that gene mutation will probably exhaust hero
varian supply sooner, right, And so because of all of
(08:38):
those issues that we just mentioned, most women do become
unable to have a successful pregnancy sometime in their mid forties.
And what I learned is that you're not actually fertile
up until menopause. It's not like someone flips off a
switch suddenly and you go from being super fertile to
completely unfertile. Um. So the average age from menopau us
(09:00):
is fifty one, but you start losing that reserve of
eggs before the time that you've actually become completely infertile
or unable to give birth. Yeah. This is due to
something called a gradual loss of quote unquote ovarian reserve,
which is I'm now thinking about my ovaries as like
a like a stock room and a grocery store that
(09:22):
I don't know. If someone walks in and it's like, oh,
how many do we have this month? Not enough artichokes,
I don't know. So as we age that ovarian reserve,
that stock room uh diminishes, and our follicles actually become
less sensitive to follical stimulating hormone, so they require more
stimulation for an egg to mature and ovulate, which is
(09:45):
why we see things like that higher rate of miscarriage.
And on top of that, we also have the issues
with egg quality deteriorating because of things like the increased
frequency of genetic abnormalities UM and also that can lead
to the a higher risk of Down syndrome and other
chromosomal disorders which are linked to getting pregnant when we
(10:08):
are older. Right, And one thing that I will admit
that I had not thought of before we were doing
the research for this is that even with in vitro
fertilization UM. At forty three, the chance of a successful
pregnancy is less than five percent because in vitro UH
doesn't just automatically magically make you super fertile and super
(10:29):
able to have like fifty children in one go. UM,
you still have to take into consideration the basic like
health of your eggs. Essentially, yeah and UM for women
older between forty five and forty nine, and I believe
this is also specifically related to in vitro only point
(10:52):
oh three percent a woman that old can have babies,
But then it's a question of once you get that old,
there are not that many women who are probably trying
to get pregnant. But for men, guess why y'all are
so fertile? Men's infertility usually doesn't sit in until they
(11:13):
turn around sixty, although studies in recent years have also
looked at sperm degeneration over the years, and even though
you might still be producing it older gents, it is
not as of of pristine quality as it is when
you are younger. So their sperm is also going a
(11:34):
little salt and pepper, A little salt and pepper. Well,
it's notable because UM, A lot of times when we
consider age and fertility and risk of chromosomeal disorders like
something like Down syndrome, it's usually like linked to the
mother and O sites. But this new research is saying, oh,
actually no, we also need to look at the quality
(11:56):
of the sperm as well. So well, I mean my parents,
My mom was thirty five and my dad was forty
when I was born. So it's it's funny, like I
have a totally different perspective on like parental age. Yeah everything.
My mother turned forty when while she was pregnant with me.
Actually um. And so if if you're feeling a little
(12:19):
bit anxious about all of this, you're not alone. There's
been a lot of concern about these numbers and out
and out fearmongering surrounding fertility and age, especially because we
are delaying childbirth, and by we, I mean women are
delaying childbirth more than ever before. And in two thousand two,
(12:40):
Sylvia and Hewlett wrote a book called Creating a Life,
and it really sparked a lot of renewed panic over
women's fertility versus career planning. Yeah, she basically said that
you should have your kids now while you're young and
spry or just don't have any at all, and that
you should plan ladies for grandchildren the way you plan
(13:03):
for that corner office. No comment, but um, she cited
a statistic that of professional forty year old woman women
deeply regretted not having kids, Like really, way to make
everybody panic, Like, oh, you think you're happy now with
your career and your dog and your husband or your partner. No,
you won't when you're forty, You're going to be so sad. Well,
(13:26):
and I'm sure that there are I don't think that
she made that statistic up, but it's more of how
that statistic was broadcast out with things like a related
Time magazine cover story which said, quote, listen to a
successful woman discuss her failure to bear a child, and
the grief comes in layers of bitterness and regret, Like wow, okay.
(13:47):
There was a New York magazine cover baby panic. The
UK Observe or even jumped in with a cover story
one It's too late to have a baby And and
this was preceded by a two thousand one now kind
of infamous ad campaign by the American Society for Reproductive
Medicine called Preserve Your Fertility, and it showed a baby
(14:08):
bottle in the shape of an hour glass, to which
Newsweek said, should you have your baby now? And um.
While these kinds of concerns are are certainly valid for
women to pay attention to, shaking us and saying just
get pregnant already isn't the way to help us sort
(14:28):
through these questions of do I have a baby now?
Do I have a baby later? Door even want to
have a baby. Oh yeah, I gotta go to work now,
let's talk about this later, right. Well, then enter Gene
Twins at The Atlantic, who wrote the book The Impatient
Woman's Guide to Getting Pregnant, and she wrote a very fascinating,
very long article about not only getting pregnant at different
(14:52):
ages or perhaps getting pregnant later in life, but also
just that that fertility fearmongering that we were talking about.
Gene Twins herself is a mother of three, all of
whom were born after thirty five, and she starts off
her article by talking about like how how concerned she
was about when and whether she would even get to
have children because of a divorce that she went through. Yeah,
(15:13):
and she basically took a closer look at those statistics
that we tossed out about the fertility and age that
are sited over and over and over again, especially zeroing
in on that thirty five drop off, and she uncovered
(15:35):
more recent studies that once you tease a part, the
methodology seemed to contradict very strongly just how um whether
or not those numbers are really the gospel um. For instance,
biostatistician David Dunson, who's now at Duke University, found that
there is only a four percent drop in pregnancy rates
(15:58):
from age eight to thirty seven. That doesn't sound terrifying,
and she underscored this that often cited fertility statistic that
one of three women between thirty five and thirty nine
won't get pregnant after one year of trying is wait
for people based on French birth records from sixteen seventy
(16:21):
to eighteen thirty. Right. I was talking to my older
sister about this whole fertility age thing. Uh, And I
mentioned that about the French birth records and she I
think she might have pounded the table. She was so angry.
What what then? Yeah? I mean and twins, As Twins
(16:42):
points out, like that's in an era before antibiotics or
lightbulbs yeah, so so let's I think, you know. She
she definitely points out that updated studies and statistics are
in order. Um, talking further about done since two thousand
four study examining the chances of pregnancy among seven hundred
(17:05):
and seventy European women, uh Dunson found that with sex
at least twice a week, two of women thirty five
to thirty nine conceived within a year, compared to six
percent of women twenty seven to thirty four. And that,
I mean, that's really not a huge difference, right, No,
(17:25):
although and not to be crass, they were probably some
people listen and saying, oh, that's great. Where am I
going to find time to have sex fice a week? Okay?
The schedule that in I put it in your plan,
your your day day planning, and put it on your
your get a shared Google calendar. There was also a
March study and Fertility and Sterility, which was led by
(17:45):
Kenneth Rothman of Boston University, and it looked at around
three thousand Danish women as they tried to get pregnant,
and he found similarly not a huge drop between the
chances of thirty forty year olds getting preg know within
a year compared to twenty and thirty four year olds.
He found that among women who have sex during their
(18:06):
fertile times, and that's that's the thing. You can't look
at when people are doing it, how often they're doing it,
how much, how they're trying to get pregnant. And he
found that seventy eight percent of that older group got
pregnant within a year compared to among the younger folks.
So hi their way a lot of pregnanciesveling. Yeah, And
(18:29):
there was another study by Anne Steiner, who's an associate
professor at the University of North Carolina School of Medicine,
and those results were actually presented in June of this year,
so not too long ago. Um Steiner found that among
thirty eight and thirty nine year olds who had been
pregnant before, eight percent of white women of normal weight
got pregnant naturally within six months. She did find, however,
(18:52):
that the percentage was lower among women of other ethnic backgrounds,
and among the overweight. There was not a huge drop
in fertility or conceiving until the age of forty So
what's going on here? Where? Why do we have these
kinds of conflicting statistics? Off some saying oh, you know what,
you're gonna hit thirty five and you're gonna have that
(19:13):
major drop off, and then these other studies coming around
and saying, actually, not so much. Um. Basically, it turns
out it kind of turns on challenges of accurately gauging
natural conception because of things like how modern birth records
are a bit uninformative because a lot of women have
(19:35):
their kids in their twenties and then they hop on
birth control or have sterilization surgery to prevent pregnancy during
their thirties and forties. And also if you say, well,
why don't you just ask a couple how long it
took them to conceive or how long they've been trying,
and self reporting is not the most reliable and accurate
(19:56):
way to gauge something now. I mean, I can't even remember.
Like I will go home after recording the podcast and
my roommay will be like, so, what's your Christen talk
about today? And I'm like, something about something about grocery
store stock rooms. I think, yeah, I think it was
about artichokes. I can't recall. So yeah, asking people to
self report about anything, especially something as private and personal
(20:18):
as their sexual behavior, and patterns, it is a little unreliable.
One of the best ways to measure fertility is cycle variability,
which is looking at the chance of getting pregnant if
a couple has sex, like we just said, on the
most fertile day of a woman's cycle. Those studies that
are based on cycle variability monitor couples as they attempt
(20:40):
to get pregnant, rather than asking them after the fact
to remember how long it took. And it seems like
those more recent studies that take that cycle variability into
account and really gauge the pregnancy around that seems like
that's where you see those more optimistics statistics in terms
(21:01):
of older women and by older I mean over thirty five,
which gosh, that's not actually older, but older compared to
women in their twenties junior in college. Yes, um, it
does seem like when you take all of that into account,
the statistics are not that scary. Now, all of this said,
(21:21):
things are going to vary from person to person, but
at least maybe that can diminish some of the anxiety
around it. Although although apparently, at least according to more
recent reports we've read in the news, a lot of
women aren't that freaked out they actually think that they'll
(21:44):
be able to have a baby after their forty because
we're seeing a lot of celebrities doing it. Yeah, Halle Berry,
Nicole Kidman, people like that, who you know. They're having
these fantastically glamorous lives, wonderful shoes and great skin, and
they are giving birth to all of these beautiful babies. Yeah,
Halle Berry got pregnant when she was forty six. Kelly
(22:07):
Preston Beater, she got pregnant at forty seventeen. Off also
had had a baby at forty one. I wonder where
her shoes are like, but it's just a lot of
Tom's anyway. Yeah. So a lot of trend stories now
that we're seeing have a lot to do with women
who aren't so much worried that that clock is ticking
as they are sort of overly optimistic that it's not
(22:29):
ticking at all. I look great, I feel great. I
feel like I'm twenty. I feel like I'm a junior
in college taking finals. So I should be able to
have a baby, right well. Uh. An article from NPR
Inven talked about a survey that was funded by the
biopharmaceutical company Ian D Serranto, which found women dramatically underestimate
(22:50):
how much fertility declines with age and how much time
it actually takes to get pregnant. And this is in
line with a twenty eleven New York Times article we
found on it talked to a lot of women who
were very surprised that they could not get pregnant immediately.
I mean, I will say that was a classic kind
of New York Times trend piece though, where they talked to,
(23:12):
you know, a number of very well off women who
I don't know it was. The tone of it was almost, um,
I don't know, derogatory towards them, because they would talk
about how, you know, she she looks so young because
she's had some botox, and but she can't, you know,
she can't get filler and her tummy in the form
(23:33):
of a baby. These women are so dumb, you know,
Like it was I don't know, but it did. It did.
Quote Dr Ingrid Roadie, who's an associate clinical professor of
obstetrics and gynecology at the David Geffen School of Medicine
at u c l A, and she said, they all
think they're more fertile than they are. I have patients
who say, I'm forty eight, but everyone thinks I'm thirty five.
(23:54):
Shouldn't I be as fertile as a thirty eight year old?
And I mean, I don't know. I feel like that
case of a forty eight year old a really wanting
to have a baby. Forty eight year olds listening correct
me if I'm wrong, and be how many forty eight
year old women look in the mirror and think that,
based on their lack of crow's feet that they're that
(24:17):
that must reflect in the youth of their ovaries. You know,
do you feel like that's just kind of a case
of anecdote. Yeah, I mean it for sure, it could
be completely anecdotal, But I mean it's entirely possible that that, um,
maybe women who don't understand that just because you do
(24:39):
look great and you exercise and you go to yoga
every day, you know, being limber and beautiful and wrinkle
lists on the outside, that has nothing to do with
the fact that your ovaries are degenerating every year. Well,
it's also compelling because when you consider the fact that
Sylvia and Hewlett's book Creating a Life that set off
(25:00):
all that fearmongering came out in two thousand two, and
these articles are coming out ten years later saying, actually,
we're not concerned enough, so can we find a happy
medium somewhere? Because I feel like I see more of
the Sylvia and Hewlett end of it, saying you better
have a baby, you know, go ahead and do it.
(25:21):
You've got energy now. Yeah, it's gonna, you know, make
a dent in your paycheck, but you've got to make
it work and work up until you know, with that pregnancy,
until you go into labrin and get back in. Um.
I feel like there's more than more of that than
this idea that we're seeing so many older celebrities having
(25:41):
babies and who knows whether like whether those are quote
unquote natural pregnancy or not. Well. But also I mean
talking about anecdotally, you know, when you talk to your friends,
like I feel like I have way more friends and
acquaintances and colleagues and all that stuff, who are like, no,
I want to have babies now because I want to
(26:03):
be young with my kids, and I want to play
with my kids. You know, my parents were older, so
I want to be able to get down on the
floor and play with them and not run out of energy.
I feel like, I hear that a lot more from
people I know than like, I'll get around to it exactly.
And the older that I get, the more those conversations
definitely come up, and the more cognizant they are of
(26:27):
a specific time frame, because it used to just be oh,
do you want to have babies or not in a
very kind of abstract way, and now it's I want
to be pregnant by the time I am fill in
the blank, you know. Um so, oh, so what do
we take away from all of this, Caroline? Um? I think,
(26:47):
not to not to turn this into a cop out,
but I mean, I think what I learned and what
was reinforced is that your eggs are not my eggs, Kristen,
Thank god, because that would be creepy and almost a possible.
But we all, I mean, we all have different health
experiences that um dictate you know, whether you will be
(27:08):
able to get pregnant at thirty seven and whether I would. Yeah,
I mean, And and the tips honestly for minimizing pregnancy
risk for women over thirty five are pretty much the
same for those under thirty five. It's stuff like taking
prenatal vitamins, seeing your doctor for pregnancy checkups, eating well, exercising,
cutting out nicotine, alcohol, drugs, things that you should do anyway,
(27:32):
essentially being healthy. Um. But UM, I take away from
this that thirty five is not necessarily the signpost. You know,
it's it's not. Um, I don't know. Yeah, I think
it's it's not. Thirty five is not a time when
you're like counting down to it and you start to panic.
(27:52):
I mean, I think we have quite a bit more
time after that. So I don't want anybody to feel
guilty for choosing a career right now, or travel or
school over, or just not having a baby right now
because they just don't want one now or or ever.
And I know that I'm sure that there are women
(28:14):
thirty five and older who are listening, and you're the
ones that I'm so curious to hear from because I'm
wondering what kind of external pressure for women over thirty
five that they get, because I have a feeling that
hearing these kinds of statistics affect us a lot differently
(28:34):
than they affect them, because for you and me, it's
not we're not quite there yet. But I wonder for
women who are in that demographic UM, and men who
are in relationships with women who are in that demographic.
How how that goes? Um? And what what your doctor
does and doesn't tell you. And also this whole celebrity factor.
(28:55):
Is it really something that's altering our perception of utility? Um?
So let us know your thoughts on this one. I'm
I'm gonna be really curious to hear what folks have
to say. Mom Stuff at Discovery dot com is where
you can send your letters. You can also tweet us
and mom Stuff podcast and leave us a note over
on Facebook like us while you're at it. And we've
(29:17):
got a couple of letters to read. And now back
to our letters. Well, we got a couple of letters
here on our episode on a s MR. We got
a surprising number of letters on that one, some from
people who knew exactly what we were talking about and
others who didn't have a language. You didn't know that
a SMR was a thing until they listen to the podcast.
(29:39):
So I have one here from Laura, who has experienced
a SMR and she even watches the video. She said,
I was super excited when I saw the title of
your latest podcast, and even more excited when you started
off by saying that you had experienced a s MR yourselves.
It's such a weird concept to get across to people
who don't experience it, but you did a lovely job
(30:00):
like many other people. I had experienced a SMR, but
I didn't know what it was or that other people
had it. About a year ago, I watched an a
s MR or showing off a Buffy the Vampire Slayer collection.
I'm a Buffy nerd. I started off thinking this is
so silly and odd that I kept watching, and then
I started to get the tingles upun Clicking through her
(30:21):
other videos, I kept seeing the term a SMR and
the titles and googled it mind blown. I'm still developing
my triggers. Many of the normal things worked, like soft
speaking or deliberate repetitive motions and nail tapping, crinkly sounds,
brushing things. My earliest memory of getting tingles was with
one of my friends in elementary school. She would often
(30:43):
do these very deliberate repetitive motions that made me zonne
out in a good relaxing way. Also, Pbs Staples, Bob Ross,
and why Lana of the Yoga series were soft speakers
who triggered me before I knew what triggering was. For
the role play videos, I do sort of have to
detach myself from the experience to enjoy it. I'm watching
(31:03):
a video of someone pretending to paint my face so
I will look like a tiger. This is crazy for me.
It is really about the soft speaking, actions and sound,
so I prefer the videos that highlight those elements. I
have one here from Carrie, who says that last week
I subscribed to stuff Mom never told you, and I
love it. Hooray, welcome Carrie. We're so happy to have you,
(31:26):
she says. Today, I listened to the A. S. M
R podcast during work, and I was so shocked that
there's a name for this experience. I thought I was
the only one. I had to stop what I was
doing and write this email. I remember having the experiences
a lot during college, when I'd help fellow students write
and edit their college papers, or when i'd explain difficult
concepts in literature to them. I was an English major.
I get an extremely calming, tangling, feeling almost warm and fuzzy,
(31:50):
and it was like the rest of the world was
blocked out. I'd feel completely safe. I think in part,
it was the student's reliance on me to help them
through a task that made me feel this way. I've
also experienced did it one of my first jobs, when
I was training some women on how to use the
company's medical software. I think I'd feel embarrassed because I
hardly knew these people, yet I'd have this brain orgasm
that made me feel comfortable with them. I never told
(32:12):
anyone about these celestial wash a great term feelings. They're
certainly not sexual feelings and not a fetish at all. Honestly,
I don't remember the last time I experienced a s MR,
and I missed the feelings. I think the closest I've
gotten to one in the past few years is reading
a book and hearing and feeling my cat purring next
to me. I'd have to say that these experiences were
(32:32):
primarily in the company of other women. The podcast did
mention a s MR releasing serotonin. I'm currently on an
SSR I medication for anxiety. Part of the reason why
I want a s MR feelings to return is to
help me relax. It's not something that I can force,
though it can only happen naturally. I'm so glad that
I share a SMR with other people and then I'm
(32:53):
not a Weirdoh no, you're not carry And thank you
for writing in, and thanks to everyone who has written in.
Um Stuff at discovery dot com is where you can
email us. You can also follow us on Twitter at
mom Stuff Podcasts and find us on Facebook as well
as on tumbler stuff mom Never Told You dot tumbler
dot com, and we're also on YouTube. We've got fun
(33:15):
new videos to go up four times a week, so
you should check them out there at YouTube dot com,
slash stuff mom Never Told You, and don't forget friends
to subscribe for more on this and thousands of other topics.
Is it how stuff Works dot com
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