February 9, 2019 • 22 mins
More people are delaying or avoiding marriage, and also raising children outside of wedlock. Are single people penalized? In this classic episode, learn more about the singlehood stigma and how it impacts all the single ladies the most.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hey, this is Annie, and you're listening to stuff I've
never told you. It's around Valentine's Day here in the
United States, and since I'm rarely in relationships, on Valentine's Day,
(00:27):
I usually get together with my other single female friends
and we get things like pizza and French fries and
watch movies together, and it is a lovely time. We
were doing Valentine's Day before Parks and Direct popularized it.
I suspect a lot of us were. And my mom
was also really great about Valentine's Day. Two She would
make me these flowers out of tissue paper and write
(00:49):
really sweet cards for me. UM and I used to
feel a lot of pressure and Loki shame to be
honest that I was alone on Valentine's Day, But these
day days, I've mostly overcome it. This Valentine's Day, I
had some friends over and we played board games and
we saw Marvel on ice because we are the coolest
(01:12):
people you have ever heard of. UM. I've spoken a
lot before about how I'm single and I'm happy that way,
but people refuse to believe it, or they cannot believe it.
I get strange looks, all sorts of questions that I'm
surprised people feel comfortable enough to ask. Basically, aren't you
worry to dial learn? Or but you're old? Or you
(01:34):
must be the saddest person. Something is clearly wrong with you.
And I've heard that same thing from a lot of
my single friends. This classic episode is all about this
single hood stigma and how we single women are terrifying
to people enjoy. Welcome to Stuff Mom Never told you
(01:56):
from how Stuff Works dot com. Hello, and welcome to
the podcast. I'm Caroline and I'm Kristen. Kristen did some
reading this weekend, and did you know that one hundred
million Americans, that's over half the population are unmarried according
(02:17):
to the Census Bureau. This means that half of the
over eighteen population is being overlooked by some very important
policies talking about these single people, single adults, the single adults. Yeah,
and we ran across an article last week over at
Tara Parker Pope's wellness blog at the New York Times,
(02:38):
and she was reporting on how some social scientists and
researchers think that because of this huge population and growing
population of American adult singles, that a lot of them
are being overlooked in terms of benefits, pay taxes and
things like that. And too much emphasis is being put
on the holy altar of marriage, right and you know, uh,
(03:03):
we're fighting for a marriage equality. Yeah, but whether you're
gay or straight, if you're single, you're going to be
left behind any marriage reform. You know, that's great, but
it's still leaving the single people out of that. And
Naomi Girstell, a sociologist at University of Massachusetts amherst Um, says,
this push for marriage essentially assumes that if you don't
(03:25):
get married, there is something wrong with you. Um, but
a huge proportion of the population is unmarried, and the
single population is only going to grow. And um, there's
this September editorial, So a recent editorial and the Guardian
um sort of brings up the subject of should partners
have similar rights to um, too married to to spouses? Yeah,
(03:51):
I started bringing up the the idea of reviving a
common common law kind of marriage, right. Yeah. It said
something like it's been there's been no common law marriage
since the eighteenth century, but most of the population still
thinks that it exists. And um, and it's good that
you bring up the issue of partners because when we
(04:11):
say single, a lot of times, you'll probably assume that
someone who's completely unattached, like not any kind of long
term or dating relationship at all. But remember, in this context,
single applies to just someone who is not married. And um,
So the Guardian was talking about the Office for National
Statistics which found that the key to a strong marriage
(04:34):
is actually to live together first. It's cohabitation. Um and
On suggests that cohabitation is seen as promoting rather than
competing with marriage, and uses um this argument to suggest
that maybe we should have more rights as as domestic
partners or just you know, folks living together. Yeah, and
(04:55):
we've talked about premarital cohabitation as it is formerly called
on the podcast before and talking about whether or not
um it predicts divorced because there was a study that
came out a while ago saying that people who lived
together before they get married are then more likely to
get divorced. They're all of these statistics that we saw
about how people who lived together who are unmarried, you know,
(05:17):
they drink more, and they weigh more, and they have
lower incomes and you know, basically at all coming emphasizing
this point over and over again that that marriage you know,
especially the heterosexual marriage ideal is uh is where it's
at in terms of family stability. UM. But a lot
of times to people who are promoting those kind of
(05:38):
ideas are uh, you know, a little more conservative, little
agenda based. Yeah. People's ideas of marriage are often based
on things that they grew up with, the norms that
they were surrounded by. And these ideals and norms can
actually have a big effect on the workplace. And according
(05:59):
to a Busy This Week article from a couple of
years ago, UM, unmarried people wind up making an average
less than their married colleagues for the same work just
because of this marriage centric structure that we have going on. Right,
there just more built in uh benefits for people who
are married and have children. Um. And there have been
(06:21):
a lot of companies since this Business Week article came
out that have tried to be more inclusive, specifically for
like same sex partners. UM kind of taking away the
the formal you know, box of of marriage, so the
to provide rights for our benefits for other people. But
at the same time, you know, the penalties still exists.
(06:43):
And what is it the Family UM Medical Leave Act,
like a federal law. Bella Depollo is a psychologist and
she is one of the number one voices about singleism.
She even coined the term singleism h to as a
catch all for the you know kind of anti single
(07:04):
discrimination against single folks. Yes, discrimination. Yeah, And she cites
the Family and Medical Leave Act as an example of
it because legally, since she's single and doesn't have any children,
no one can take time off under the law to
care for her if she becomes really sick, and it's
not required that she'd be given time off to care
for siblings, nephews, close friends. I mean, in my case,
(07:27):
I have um a number of I've lost count and
have a number of nieces and nephews and um and
it would be great to have, you know, similar freedom
to be able to, you know, pick them up from
soccer practice. If my sister was in a bind or rights,
it would be nice to know that you wouldn't lose
your job because you had to take care of one
(07:48):
of those nieces or nephews, you know, if they were
sick or a sibling. It would be nice to know
you had a job to come back to, or even
a good friend or a podcast go host. I'm in
good health, though, I assure you, and the thing is
single people could use some more assistance because statistically we're
the ones putting in um, you know, the volunteer hours,
(08:12):
UM kind of keeping things running into your society run
and our communities and parents. Before you turn off the
podcast to say you don't understand, I don't have you know,
I don't have time to do this. I'm caring for children.
It's not parenthood that's the issue, according to Naomi Girsel,
that's sociologists from amherste Caroline mentioned earlier. She told The
(08:33):
New York Times, it's not having children that isolates people.
It's actually the marriage down. Yeah. Once people get married,
they tend to turn their energies inward. They've played the game. Yeah,
they won, they got their partner and I'm not that
sounds really cynical and I'm not really that cynical, but um, yeah, No,
Studies have shown that once people get married, they turn
(08:54):
their focus away from friendships, extended family and the community
and turn it inward on their own family that they're building. Yeah,
I'm just for an example, this is from the Council
and Contemporary Families, UM, looking at who is taking care
of aging parents with the booming or the the aging boomer.
Population of unmarried women take care of parents compared to
(09:19):
six eight percent of married women. For men, it's only
sixty seven percent of unmarried men compared to just thirty
eight percent of married guys. And then also unmarried people
are more connected with family community and have higher volunteerism
rates UM. One in five take part in volunteer works
such as teaching, coaching, raising money for charities, and things
(09:42):
like that. Right, yeah, I have all sorts of time
to go volunteer with projects around Atlanta, being that I'm
a single person who eat lots of chocolates as I have.
You know what I do too, And I'm gonna be
honest with you right now, I don't. I don't volunteer enough. Well,
I volunteer time at my my keyboard. Kind it you
keep that economy rolling at my laptop. But I hope
(10:04):
you get out some Kristen, that you're not just sitting
in your keyboard, because if you didn't get out and
have friends, you would be the odd ball. Because the
statistics says that even more than I are even more
UM at all educational levels, unmarried individuals not only have
more friends than they're married counterparts. But they give these
friends more care, both practical and emotional. So I'm here
(10:27):
for you, thank you. And for married people, I'm here
for you too, although I won't understand your problems. But
here's the thing, though, the point of the podcast was
to talk about this, the answer the question of whether
or not single people are stigmatized. And here's the thing.
(10:49):
Not to make us sound like, uh, you know some
major stereotypes right now, Caroline, but you and I bit
into the demographic where we're about to get really really
stigmatized unless we put a ring on it soon. Yeah,
by a ring for myself. Yeah. Being married by age
(11:14):
and I'm about to hit eight is consistent with the
normative pattern and snaff ideology snaff standing for the standard
North American family, the ideal of like, you get married,
you have two point five kids, you get a white
pick events. So is the age for women where that's
like within the normal range, and so I have gone
(11:36):
past that. But although the average um statistically, I think
according to census data, the average age for women getting
married is like twenty six point seven years old. So
you're I mean, like you're closer, you're closer than you think.
You're just not right at that at that snaff So
I feel so much better. UM. I, on the other hand,
(11:58):
I am about I'm I'm rapidly a prow seven and
so I got I'm on a like husband countdown. They
don't have anyone that two months, so I can beat
the odds. Um. Yeah, we're talking about single stigma and
the fact that we are rapidly approaching the end of
our I don't know whatever acceptable stereotypical marriage period. UM
(12:22):
two thousand nine study by researchers at the University of
Missouri and Texas Tech called and I love this. I'm
not a loser. I'm not married. Let's all just look
at me. UM talked with ten women who were in
their thirties. Right in their thirties, UM talked to them
about what it was like being single, and a lot
of these women definitely said they felt stigmatized, despite the
(12:44):
fact that they were successful in their careers had good
lives otherwise. Part of this is that they were made
to be aware of the changing realities as they got older.
There were certain triggers that they faced, like going to weddings,
going to showers, you know, but a lot of it.
A big trigger is people around them, like coworkers, family members,
(13:07):
et cetera, who were all going, so, when are you
going to get married? And that just makes them more
aware of the fact that they're not married. Right. Well,
I thought it was interesting too that all of the
women had been told by other people they were just
being too picky. And it reminds me a lot of
And Caroline, I don't know if you heard about this book.
(13:28):
It came out maybe last year. Um, it got a
lot of pressed. It was Laurie Gottlee wrote it and
it was called Marry Him. The Case for Settling for
Mr Goodenough. Yeah, it upset a lot of people. Yeah,
because she was basically like, hey, you know what, ladies,
we're getting older. We need a little bit of stability.
Just take the nice guy who you know, might not
might not set your heart of flame, but he will
(13:51):
make you a casserole sometimes. And I'm really I mean,
that's really a you know, quite a nutshell to put
it in, but it's it's the same kind of thing
of like, hey, you know what, stopped being so picky? Um,
the media has just fed us lives about independent women myths. Well, yeah,
and also this notion that you know, you can have
it all and find you know, some an amazing partner.
(14:13):
Uh so, but just give up. Well that's like in
this study that we were just talking about, um, somebody
talked about their grandmother who said, well, just just go
ahead and get married and have the baby. You can
always divorce him later. And I feel like that's part
of this really archaic might be too strong a word,
but this just this notion of like you have to
(14:34):
do things in a certain order. You go to school,
you get married, you have a baby, and then everything
else is just second. And then the baby goes to school, right,
and then you you torment the baby about when you're
going to meet somebody. Baby, but baby, baby. But speaking
of unwet or speaking of children, though, now would be
a good time to bring up the fact that non
(14:56):
marital births um are becoming the warm as is. I mean,
if we've got a hundred million single folks, you know,
a number of whom are probably reproducing, you can imagine
that the rate of unwed motherhood has gone up. And
it's not just single mothers too, It's like people who
are living together, adopting children or having children together. Um,
(15:19):
And just to give you an idea from the c
d c UH, sixty percent of non marital births six
in two thousand seven, or two women in their twenties,
significantly higher than the forty two percent level in nineteen
seventy because back in the seventies and before teen, pregnancy
made up the large proportion of non marital births. But now,
(15:43):
you know, folks, our rage, you're having kids and it's
totally fine. And that's kind of following in the footsteps
of uh Iceland, Sweden, Norway were well over one half
of recent births are two women who aren't married. We're
becoming so European. Um. The Business Week article ment ends
along the same lines that children will live with their
(16:05):
mom and her boyfriend before they turn sixteen, and it
goes on to say that, you know, it would be
better for kids to have a more stable environment to
grow up in, But it seems like this is going
to be so much more common than it already is. Well,
I mean, if studies that they've done. It reminds me
of um uh, some research that came out last year
(16:25):
looking at the child outcomes from um, you know, same
sex parents, households, basically wondering whether or not, you know,
if kids are raised by two men as opposed to
a man and a woman, will they be fine? And
the answer is yes, yes, if you have a stable
dual head household, then that's the best chance for for
(16:49):
positive outcomes. But it does not mean that you have
to be married. So not all numbers are super encouraging
when we're talking about being single and whatnot. Did you know,
(17:11):
according to the census breakdown in that there are eighty
eight unmarried men eighteen are over for every one hundred
single women eighteen and over, there's a gap gap. It's like, yeah,
it's unmarried US residents over the age of eighteen were women.
But yeah, then it's like surprise when you break it
(17:34):
down further, you know, but don't confine yourself just to
the American borders. Oh well, you're right, you're right, and
I have not you can go elsewhere. But speaking of
men um, I have to cross the junction. God, it's okay,
you would have an international site. I guess I can
(17:55):
go to Canada. I don't know those accents, but hey,
a lot of connection. Hey it was a joke, it
was a joke. I have I have relatives in Minnesota. Um.
But speaking of men, though, one thing that stood out
to me from all the single stigma information is that
a lot of times, it seems like and maybe it's
(18:16):
just the way the research has been conducted, perhaps they
said simply have not sat men down and asked him, Hey,
how do you feel being the single guy at the table? Um,
But it seems like this social stigma is mostly directed
at women in their late twenties and thirties, and then
you know, beyond that, then we're just called crazy cat
(18:38):
ladies and forgotten about all star on our own Kathy cartoon.
So I'm wondering, I'm asking men out there, you know,
is there do you feel any kind of single stigma?
Do you feel pressure if you're in a relationship? Do
you feel the pressure to get married or somehow or
moving do something to take it to the next step,
to somehow legitimize it in society's viewpoint, right, I mean,
(19:03):
there definitely are stigmas out there still, Um, despite the
fact that there's just this growing number of single people,
people who were living together, or people who are just
in long term relationships and not getting married. It's growing,
you know, the numbers are getting bigger, but there's still
a stigma. Well, I think we kind of hit this
point to where, first of all, we live so long,
(19:23):
so you know, I mean, you're gonna be with someone
for a really long time if it really is until
death to you part, and the divorce rate is so high,
and there is, at least with our generation, Caroline, not
this rush to find your career and find your spouse
and settle down. We're delaying marriage. We're hopping around, trying
(19:45):
out different kinds of jobs and things like that. So
I'll be really interested to see, I don't know how
all of this shakes out and if we will at
some point kind of as a society mature out of
the heteronormaty of marriage structure. Right. Yeah, it's it's I
think it's gonna be hard to move past that, the stereotypes,
(20:07):
the scripts and schema. Um. But I mean it's just
becoming so common, so obviously there's a disconnect there, somewhat
a cultural lag, if you will. Yeah, So the romantic
sexual partner, it's just it's not the only way to
be satisfied in life people. Yeah, and maybe it's time
for us to reclaim the term single because that also
(20:28):
came up a lot like a lot of single people
do not like to label themselves as single because it
has that kind of cultural baggage of so what do
they call? And well, I don't know, maybe maybe we
should just make a single cool, you know, singles the
new Uh. I don't know, Yeah, I don't know. I'm
(20:48):
already failing at this and I can't well help us out.
Let us know your thoughts, UM, and married people too.
What what's your perspective on this, the growing sea of
singles around you? Or do you even notice it at all?
Send us an email mom Stuff at how stuff works
dot com. And I've got a little email here to
(21:10):
read right quick, Um, a little email. H. This is
in regard to our episode on women in um journalism
and broadcasting and uh. Patricia is offering us insight into
women and broadcasting in Germany. Uh. She said, I just
listened to the Women in Broadcasting podcasts and thought you
might like to know that growing up in Germany during
(21:32):
the seventies, women were almost always anchored national and international news.
We watch a R D and zd F. I'm assuming
those are two of the two main networks. The women
were always professional and conservatively dressed. They were well groomed
and very articulate, and they sat in front of simple
desks with very spartan backgrounds. There was no fluff or flash.
(21:54):
Um and I'm gonna have to watch it. She sent
a link to some old school German news broadcasts, So
I'm gonna check it out. And if you have any
links to send our way again. Our email addresses mom
Stuff at how stuff works dot com. You can also
find us over on Facebook and follow us on Twitter
at mom Stuff Podcast. Of course, you can check out
(22:15):
the blog during the week. It's stuff Mom Never told
You at how stuff Works dot com. Be sure to
check out our new video podcast, Stuff from the Future.
Join how Stuff Work staff as we explore the most
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iPhone app has arrived. Download it today on iTunes.
Hey, this is Annie, and you're listening to stuff I've
never told you. It's around Valentine's Day here in the
United States, and since I'm rarely in relationships, on Valentine's Day,
(00:27):
I usually get together with my other single female friends
and we get things like pizza and French fries and
watch movies together, and it is a lovely time. We
were doing Valentine's Day before Parks and Direct popularized it.
I suspect a lot of us were. And my mom
was also really great about Valentine's Day. Two She would
make me these flowers out of tissue paper and write
(00:49):
really sweet cards for me. UM and I used to
feel a lot of pressure and Loki shame to be
honest that I was alone on Valentine's Day, But these
day days, I've mostly overcome it. This Valentine's Day, I
had some friends over and we played board games and
we saw Marvel on ice because we are the coolest
(01:12):
people you have ever heard of. UM. I've spoken a
lot before about how I'm single and I'm happy that way,
but people refuse to believe it, or they cannot believe it.
I get strange looks, all sorts of questions that I'm
surprised people feel comfortable enough to ask. Basically, aren't you
worry to dial learn? Or but you're old? Or you
(01:34):
must be the saddest person. Something is clearly wrong with you.
And I've heard that same thing from a lot of
my single friends. This classic episode is all about this
single hood stigma and how we single women are terrifying
to people enjoy. Welcome to Stuff Mom Never told you
(01:56):
from how Stuff Works dot com. Hello, and welcome to
the podcast. I'm Caroline and I'm Kristen. Kristen did some
reading this weekend, and did you know that one hundred
million Americans, that's over half the population are unmarried according
(02:17):
to the Census Bureau. This means that half of the
over eighteen population is being overlooked by some very important
policies talking about these single people, single adults, the single adults. Yeah,
and we ran across an article last week over at
Tara Parker Pope's wellness blog at the New York Times,
(02:38):
and she was reporting on how some social scientists and
researchers think that because of this huge population and growing
population of American adult singles, that a lot of them
are being overlooked in terms of benefits, pay taxes and
things like that. And too much emphasis is being put
on the holy altar of marriage, right and you know, uh,
(03:03):
we're fighting for a marriage equality. Yeah, but whether you're
gay or straight, if you're single, you're going to be
left behind any marriage reform. You know, that's great, but
it's still leaving the single people out of that. And
Naomi Girstell, a sociologist at University of Massachusetts amherst Um, says,
this push for marriage essentially assumes that if you don't
(03:25):
get married, there is something wrong with you. Um, but
a huge proportion of the population is unmarried, and the
single population is only going to grow. And um, there's
this September editorial, So a recent editorial and the Guardian
um sort of brings up the subject of should partners
have similar rights to um, too married to to spouses? Yeah,
(03:51):
I started bringing up the the idea of reviving a
common common law kind of marriage, right. Yeah. It said
something like it's been there's been no common law marriage
since the eighteenth century, but most of the population still
thinks that it exists. And um, and it's good that
you bring up the issue of partners because when we
(04:11):
say single, a lot of times, you'll probably assume that
someone who's completely unattached, like not any kind of long
term or dating relationship at all. But remember, in this context,
single applies to just someone who is not married. And um,
So the Guardian was talking about the Office for National
Statistics which found that the key to a strong marriage
(04:34):
is actually to live together first. It's cohabitation. Um and
On suggests that cohabitation is seen as promoting rather than
competing with marriage, and uses um this argument to suggest
that maybe we should have more rights as as domestic
partners or just you know, folks living together. Yeah, and
(04:55):
we've talked about premarital cohabitation as it is formerly called
on the podcast before and talking about whether or not
um it predicts divorced because there was a study that
came out a while ago saying that people who lived
together before they get married are then more likely to
get divorced. They're all of these statistics that we saw
about how people who lived together who are unmarried, you know,
(05:17):
they drink more, and they weigh more, and they have
lower incomes and you know, basically at all coming emphasizing
this point over and over again that that marriage you know,
especially the heterosexual marriage ideal is uh is where it's
at in terms of family stability. UM. But a lot
of times to people who are promoting those kind of
(05:38):
ideas are uh, you know, a little more conservative, little
agenda based. Yeah. People's ideas of marriage are often based
on things that they grew up with, the norms that
they were surrounded by. And these ideals and norms can
actually have a big effect on the workplace. And according
(05:59):
to a Busy This Week article from a couple of
years ago, UM, unmarried people wind up making an average
less than their married colleagues for the same work just
because of this marriage centric structure that we have going on. Right,
there just more built in uh benefits for people who
are married and have children. Um. And there have been
(06:21):
a lot of companies since this Business Week article came
out that have tried to be more inclusive, specifically for
like same sex partners. UM kind of taking away the
the formal you know, box of of marriage, so the
to provide rights for our benefits for other people. But
at the same time, you know, the penalties still exists.
(06:43):
And what is it the Family UM Medical Leave Act,
like a federal law. Bella Depollo is a psychologist and
she is one of the number one voices about singleism.
She even coined the term singleism h to as a
catch all for the you know kind of anti single
(07:04):
discrimination against single folks. Yes, discrimination. Yeah, And she cites
the Family and Medical Leave Act as an example of
it because legally, since she's single and doesn't have any children,
no one can take time off under the law to
care for her if she becomes really sick, and it's
not required that she'd be given time off to care
for siblings, nephews, close friends. I mean, in my case,
(07:27):
I have um a number of I've lost count and
have a number of nieces and nephews and um and
it would be great to have, you know, similar freedom
to be able to, you know, pick them up from
soccer practice. If my sister was in a bind or rights,
it would be nice to know that you wouldn't lose
your job because you had to take care of one
(07:48):
of those nieces or nephews, you know, if they were
sick or a sibling. It would be nice to know
you had a job to come back to, or even
a good friend or a podcast go host. I'm in
good health, though, I assure you, and the thing is
single people could use some more assistance because statistically we're
the ones putting in um, you know, the volunteer hours,
(08:12):
UM kind of keeping things running into your society run
and our communities and parents. Before you turn off the
podcast to say you don't understand, I don't have you know,
I don't have time to do this. I'm caring for children.
It's not parenthood that's the issue, according to Naomi Girsel,
that's sociologists from amherste Caroline mentioned earlier. She told The
(08:33):
New York Times, it's not having children that isolates people.
It's actually the marriage down. Yeah. Once people get married,
they tend to turn their energies inward. They've played the game. Yeah,
they won, they got their partner and I'm not that
sounds really cynical and I'm not really that cynical, but um, yeah, No,
Studies have shown that once people get married, they turn
(08:54):
their focus away from friendships, extended family and the community
and turn it inward on their own family that they're building. Yeah,
I'm just for an example, this is from the Council
and Contemporary Families, UM, looking at who is taking care
of aging parents with the booming or the the aging boomer.
Population of unmarried women take care of parents compared to
(09:19):
six eight percent of married women. For men, it's only
sixty seven percent of unmarried men compared to just thirty
eight percent of married guys. And then also unmarried people
are more connected with family community and have higher volunteerism
rates UM. One in five take part in volunteer works
such as teaching, coaching, raising money for charities, and things
(09:42):
like that. Right, yeah, I have all sorts of time
to go volunteer with projects around Atlanta, being that I'm
a single person who eat lots of chocolates as I have.
You know what I do too, And I'm gonna be
honest with you right now, I don't. I don't volunteer enough. Well,
I volunteer time at my my keyboard. Kind it you
keep that economy rolling at my laptop. But I hope
(10:04):
you get out some Kristen, that you're not just sitting
in your keyboard, because if you didn't get out and
have friends, you would be the odd ball. Because the
statistics says that even more than I are even more
UM at all educational levels, unmarried individuals not only have
more friends than they're married counterparts. But they give these
friends more care, both practical and emotional. So I'm here
(10:27):
for you, thank you. And for married people, I'm here
for you too, although I won't understand your problems. But
here's the thing, though, the point of the podcast was
to talk about this, the answer the question of whether
or not single people are stigmatized. And here's the thing.
(10:49):
Not to make us sound like, uh, you know some
major stereotypes right now, Caroline, but you and I bit
into the demographic where we're about to get really really
stigmatized unless we put a ring on it soon. Yeah,
by a ring for myself. Yeah. Being married by age
(11:14):
and I'm about to hit eight is consistent with the
normative pattern and snaff ideology snaff standing for the standard
North American family, the ideal of like, you get married,
you have two point five kids, you get a white
pick events. So is the age for women where that's
like within the normal range, and so I have gone
(11:36):
past that. But although the average um statistically, I think
according to census data, the average age for women getting
married is like twenty six point seven years old. So
you're I mean, like you're closer, you're closer than you think.
You're just not right at that at that snaff So
I feel so much better. UM. I, on the other hand,
(11:58):
I am about I'm I'm rapidly a prow seven and
so I got I'm on a like husband countdown. They
don't have anyone that two months, so I can beat
the odds. Um. Yeah, we're talking about single stigma and
the fact that we are rapidly approaching the end of
our I don't know whatever acceptable stereotypical marriage period. UM
(12:22):
two thousand nine study by researchers at the University of
Missouri and Texas Tech called and I love this. I'm
not a loser. I'm not married. Let's all just look
at me. UM talked with ten women who were in
their thirties. Right in their thirties, UM talked to them
about what it was like being single, and a lot
of these women definitely said they felt stigmatized, despite the
(12:44):
fact that they were successful in their careers had good
lives otherwise. Part of this is that they were made
to be aware of the changing realities as they got older.
There were certain triggers that they faced, like going to weddings,
going to showers, you know, but a lot of it.
A big trigger is people around them, like coworkers, family members,
(13:07):
et cetera, who were all going, so, when are you
going to get married? And that just makes them more
aware of the fact that they're not married. Right. Well,
I thought it was interesting too that all of the
women had been told by other people they were just
being too picky. And it reminds me a lot of
And Caroline, I don't know if you heard about this book.
(13:28):
It came out maybe last year. Um, it got a
lot of pressed. It was Laurie Gottlee wrote it and
it was called Marry Him. The Case for Settling for
Mr Goodenough. Yeah, it upset a lot of people. Yeah,
because she was basically like, hey, you know what, ladies,
we're getting older. We need a little bit of stability.
Just take the nice guy who you know, might not
might not set your heart of flame, but he will
(13:51):
make you a casserole sometimes. And I'm really I mean,
that's really a you know, quite a nutshell to put
it in, but it's it's the same kind of thing
of like, hey, you know what, stopped being so picky? Um,
the media has just fed us lives about independent women myths. Well, yeah,
and also this notion that you know, you can have
it all and find you know, some an amazing partner.
(14:13):
Uh so, but just give up. Well that's like in
this study that we were just talking about, um, somebody
talked about their grandmother who said, well, just just go
ahead and get married and have the baby. You can
always divorce him later. And I feel like that's part
of this really archaic might be too strong a word,
but this just this notion of like you have to
(14:34):
do things in a certain order. You go to school,
you get married, you have a baby, and then everything
else is just second. And then the baby goes to school, right,
and then you you torment the baby about when you're
going to meet somebody. Baby, but baby, baby. But speaking
of unwet or speaking of children, though, now would be
a good time to bring up the fact that non
(14:56):
marital births um are becoming the warm as is. I mean,
if we've got a hundred million single folks, you know,
a number of whom are probably reproducing, you can imagine
that the rate of unwed motherhood has gone up. And
it's not just single mothers too, It's like people who
are living together, adopting children or having children together. Um,
(15:19):
And just to give you an idea from the c
d c UH, sixty percent of non marital births six
in two thousand seven, or two women in their twenties,
significantly higher than the forty two percent level in nineteen
seventy because back in the seventies and before teen, pregnancy
made up the large proportion of non marital births. But now,
(15:43):
you know, folks, our rage, you're having kids and it's
totally fine. And that's kind of following in the footsteps
of uh Iceland, Sweden, Norway were well over one half
of recent births are two women who aren't married. We're
becoming so European. Um. The Business Week article ment ends
along the same lines that children will live with their
(16:05):
mom and her boyfriend before they turn sixteen, and it
goes on to say that, you know, it would be
better for kids to have a more stable environment to
grow up in, But it seems like this is going
to be so much more common than it already is. Well,
I mean, if studies that they've done. It reminds me
of um uh, some research that came out last year
(16:25):
looking at the child outcomes from um, you know, same
sex parents, households, basically wondering whether or not, you know,
if kids are raised by two men as opposed to
a man and a woman, will they be fine? And
the answer is yes, yes, if you have a stable
dual head household, then that's the best chance for for
(16:49):
positive outcomes. But it does not mean that you have
to be married. So not all numbers are super encouraging
when we're talking about being single and whatnot. Did you know,
(17:11):
according to the census breakdown in that there are eighty
eight unmarried men eighteen are over for every one hundred
single women eighteen and over, there's a gap gap. It's like, yeah,
it's unmarried US residents over the age of eighteen were women.
But yeah, then it's like surprise when you break it
(17:34):
down further, you know, but don't confine yourself just to
the American borders. Oh well, you're right, you're right, and
I have not you can go elsewhere. But speaking of
men um, I have to cross the junction. God, it's okay,
you would have an international site. I guess I can
(17:55):
go to Canada. I don't know those accents, but hey,
a lot of connection. Hey it was a joke, it
was a joke. I have I have relatives in Minnesota. Um.
But speaking of men, though, one thing that stood out
to me from all the single stigma information is that
a lot of times, it seems like and maybe it's
(18:16):
just the way the research has been conducted, perhaps they
said simply have not sat men down and asked him, Hey,
how do you feel being the single guy at the table? Um,
But it seems like this social stigma is mostly directed
at women in their late twenties and thirties, and then
you know, beyond that, then we're just called crazy cat
(18:38):
ladies and forgotten about all star on our own Kathy cartoon.
So I'm wondering, I'm asking men out there, you know,
is there do you feel any kind of single stigma?
Do you feel pressure if you're in a relationship? Do
you feel the pressure to get married or somehow or
moving do something to take it to the next step,
to somehow legitimize it in society's viewpoint, right, I mean,
(19:03):
there definitely are stigmas out there still, Um, despite the
fact that there's just this growing number of single people,
people who were living together, or people who are just
in long term relationships and not getting married. It's growing,
you know, the numbers are getting bigger, but there's still
a stigma. Well, I think we kind of hit this
point to where, first of all, we live so long,
(19:23):
so you know, I mean, you're gonna be with someone
for a really long time if it really is until
death to you part, and the divorce rate is so high,
and there is, at least with our generation, Caroline, not
this rush to find your career and find your spouse
and settle down. We're delaying marriage. We're hopping around, trying
(19:45):
out different kinds of jobs and things like that. So
I'll be really interested to see, I don't know how
all of this shakes out and if we will at
some point kind of as a society mature out of
the heteronormaty of marriage structure. Right. Yeah, it's it's I
think it's gonna be hard to move past that, the stereotypes,
(20:07):
the scripts and schema. Um. But I mean it's just
becoming so common, so obviously there's a disconnect there, somewhat
a cultural lag, if you will. Yeah, So the romantic
sexual partner, it's just it's not the only way to
be satisfied in life people. Yeah, and maybe it's time
for us to reclaim the term single because that also
(20:28):
came up a lot like a lot of single people
do not like to label themselves as single because it
has that kind of cultural baggage of so what do
they call? And well, I don't know, maybe maybe we
should just make a single cool, you know, singles the
new Uh. I don't know, Yeah, I don't know. I'm
(20:48):
already failing at this and I can't well help us out.
Let us know your thoughts, UM, and married people too.
What what's your perspective on this, the growing sea of
singles around you? Or do you even notice it at all?
Send us an email mom Stuff at how stuff works
dot com. And I've got a little email here to
(21:10):
read right quick, Um, a little email. H. This is
in regard to our episode on women in um journalism
and broadcasting and uh. Patricia is offering us insight into
women and broadcasting in Germany. Uh. She said, I just
listened to the Women in Broadcasting podcasts and thought you
might like to know that growing up in Germany during
(21:32):
the seventies, women were almost always anchored national and international news.
We watch a R D and zd F. I'm assuming
those are two of the two main networks. The women
were always professional and conservatively dressed. They were well groomed
and very articulate, and they sat in front of simple
desks with very spartan backgrounds. There was no fluff or flash.
(21:54):
Um and I'm gonna have to watch it. She sent
a link to some old school German news broadcasts, So
I'm gonna check it out. And if you have any
links to send our way again. Our email addresses mom
Stuff at how stuff works dot com. You can also
find us over on Facebook and follow us on Twitter
at mom Stuff Podcast. Of course, you can check out
(22:15):
the blog during the week. It's stuff Mom Never told
You at how stuff Works dot com. Be sure to
check out our new video podcast, Stuff from the Future.
Join how Stuff Work staff as we explore the most
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