Asbestos expert John Batty on kinetic sand in NT schools and concerns about asbestos contamination

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
We did, indeed, just catch up with the Department of
Education CEO Susan Barden and spoke a little bit more
about the Northern Territory Will Education Department's response to this
kinetic sand and the issues rock schools will certainly in
the ACT and learning centers right around the country up
to seventy ACT schools and preschools having to close due

(00:23):
to those sand products. Now, John Batty joins me on
the phone to discuss the broader implications of this issue.
And John is the managing director of EDP Consultants. Good
morning to you.

Speaker 2 (00:35):
John, Morning Katie.

Speaker 1 (00:37):
Lovely to have you on the show. Now, John, how
concerning is it that this sand contained these chemicals which
are considered naturally occurring will a naturally occurring form of asbestos?

Speaker 2 (00:49):
Yes, so I guess we need to understand that the
sand has identified some trace amounts of these naturally occurring expenses,
including tremlin and to the amount of asbesis really is
quite low within this stand and generally we need to
understand that speesis really becomes a risk when it becomes airborne.

(01:10):
This material generally and its nature seems to clump together
and doesn't readily create dust so I'd say generally the
risk to people using this product is pretty low and
something that we really don't need to get too concerned about. Obviously,
it's something that shouldn't be in the community. We've prohibited
the use of asbestos many many years ago, now, you know,

(01:34):
over twenty years ago now, and these products really should
be stopped at the border. But generally, this material in
its nature won't really release fibers and the risk in
my opinion, is very low. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:47):
Right, Well, that is I think pleasing to hear, no
doubt for a lot of you know, parents listening to
the show this morning, because a lot of people have
sort of been left wondering how could this even eventuate
or how did it even happen.

Speaker 2 (02:01):
Yeah, so it's a difficult one to consider. I guess
we need to understand that asbestos is naturally occurring. We
know that we find it in themes in the ground.
We do have it in themes throughout Australia as well.
So I did envisage that this product really has come
about through the mining process. It may have been a
contaminant within the sand that was mined originally, and then

(02:23):
during the processing it remained within the product itself, and
that's why we're finding such low amounts within the sand
and ultimately that's how it's ended up coming into the country.

Speaker 1 (02:35):
John, Any idea why you know? I guess depending on
which location you're in around Australia, why the response may
have been a bit different sort of from location to location.
I guess, you know, in the Act, we've got a
number of schools that have been closed here in the
Northern Territory. We just heard from the CEO of the
Department of Education and she talked us through, you know,

(02:56):
the processes that they're going through in terms of, you know,
the cleaning of those classrooms, etc. And the checking of
the air quality. But we've really had three early learning
centers that have been closed, but haven't had to have
those closures to the same extent as the Act. Any
idea why that might be.

Speaker 2 (03:17):
It's hard to tell, and I'm not involved in the
process around the risk assessment, but I think we have
probably had a bit more time to consider. I guess
the facts and the risks are so sound with this material.
They've obviously done. I guess in the Act they've closed
down the schools, they've done a significant amount of air
monitoring to understand what the actual or potential risk is

(03:38):
to the children within those areas, how readily the fibers
will release from this sand material, and then potentially using
that information there they've been able to gauge that the
risk is low to people and maybe we don't need
to go ahead and I guess go to the extremes
of shutting down schools and doing that mass clean up

(03:59):
that they're doing the act.

Speaker 1 (04:01):
Have you ever seen anything like this sort of happen
in the past and in the years that you've been
working in this space, I.

Speaker 2 (04:10):
Think because asbestis is still used widely in countries such
as China and India, and we do have situations where
products do contain a products that contain asbestos do come
into the country. I know we had a situation where
crayons were brought into Australia previously that contained asbestos. I

(04:31):
know there's been some recent cases where some fire doors
have had some aspesis within them and not really picked
up until after the fact. So it is a challenge
that we need to deal with. And obviously customs have
got their hands full dealing with a lot of products
that are coming into Australia. Not only are they looking
for asbestos, but there are others they're looking for other
listen substances as well, and I guess you know, they

(04:55):
can be stretched in terms of the material that they
are looking at and the material that they are to
it testing. Our biggest challenge here in Australia is we
don't manufacture a lot of material. We import a lot
of these materials and because they are using a specials
and it's not prohibited in places such as China and India,
there is a risk that you know, you know, without

(05:15):
any planning, without any testing, it may still come into
the country.

Speaker 1 (05:19):
Yeah. I mean, do we as parents need to be
a bit more careful about what we're maybe buying from
you know, I guess because some people sort of you know,
buying things from some of those cheaper websites as well
and then getting it shipped from places like China.

Speaker 2 (05:34):
Yeah, that's true. I guess, you know, there are things
that need to be considered. You know, we've got our
regulations and our controls in place in Australia, We've got
our Australian standards that we need to comply with a
lot of these countries don't need to comply with Australian standards.
It takes my mind back to a situation where toys
were coming into Australia that we're code it in lead
pain and obviously that you know, we can't have children

(05:56):
being exposed to lead pain. It affects their development. It
is a It is a difficult one and I know
we're all you know, we're coming up to the Christmas period.
Everyone loves a cheap deal online and it's the easiest
thing to get to and you know, if we can
get something cheaper from from overseas, it might be an
interest that we will go towards. But maybe we should

(06:17):
consider buying something locally.

Speaker 1 (06:19):
Good advice, I reckon, John, really appreciate your time this morning.
Thanks so much for your insight.

Speaker 2 (06:25):
No worries, Katie, have a great day you too, Thanks
so much.