Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Three sixty with Katie Wolf for Darwin International Airport. Your
connection to the world starts with Darwin International Airport.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
You are listening to Mix one O four nine's three sixty. Now,
there's certainly a lot happening around the Northern Territory. There
always is, and we do our best to make sure
we cover it all. Now, over the last couple of
weeks you may have heard me speak on the show
to the Lichfield Mayor, Doug Barden, about will changes to
the library and the library out in the rural area
(00:31):
moving from to mid min College to cooler Linga shopping center.
There's certainly been some opponents to it. There's been some
that really do want this to happen. Now to hear.
The other side of things is the Litchfield Deputy Mayor,
Mark saidy, good morning to you.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
Mark, Good morning, Katie, good morning listeners.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
Thank you very much for coming in now. Mark, obviously
you are the deputy mayor now, I don't want you
to get in any trouble for speaking to me. I
do think though, that it is really important that our
elected members are actually able to come on the show
and speak through issues that territorians care about.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
Yeah, no, absolutely, Katie, and thank you for that. I
just got a premise this discussion by saying, in appearing
here today, the views that I am giving are my
own personally, but they are in support of a council
motion that was passed properly, and they are consistent with
three of my other colleagues. So four of us and
totally all.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
Right, so Mark. Last week we spoke to Doug Barton.
He raised concerns about the fact that you know that
the library is moving. I've got to say, probably the
biggest concern that I've heard from listeners is not so
much the library moving, but people feeling like there hasn't
been enough consultation. What's your response to that.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
I can acknowledge the sentiment of the people expressing those concerns.
But part of the reason I wanted to appear today
is to set some facts straight, because there has been
a lot of disinformation out there about what has been
historically done and the reasons things moved relatively quickly in
the end. So Counsel has already conducted significant consultations in
(02:10):
twenty seventeen and twenty twenty one. The twenty seventeen study
was done by UTS cost fifty thousand dollars. The twenty
twenty one study was done by Atria Group cost forty
five thousand dollars. Now, as a result of these studies
and both were in agreement, it was a very clear
recommendation that the site at to midmin High was no
longer fit for purpose for a multitude of reasons, and
(02:32):
that relocation was what needed to occur. And it also
went further and said relocation to a retail hub such
as cool Linger was a very very good idea.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
So those two reports, from what you're saying, they literally
seed that it should move to cooler Linger, to the
shopping center there.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
Absolutely correct, Katie, Absolutely correct.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
In terms of I mean, there has been some pushback
from local residents say and Katie, I want the library
to move, but I don't feel as though cooler LINGA
Central is the right place. I don't feel like it's
going to be the easiest place for seniors, for moms
with prams, that kind of thing to be able to
get into. They're wondering whether there should actually be a
(03:19):
fit for purpose council building built.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
So this issue came up in January twenty twenty two
and council resolved to proceed with the relocation of Themandmum Library.
I actually voted against that at that stage. My reasons
for doing so were twofold. One, I didn't think we
could afford it. Now our finances have changed, we've kept
rates to three percent this year, we can certainly afford it.
(03:46):
The second reason was I was very much of the
opinion that it was viable in the short to medium
term to develop a standalone facility at three tourny Onham Highway.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
Now, in the past four years that has been that
has gone absolutely nowhere, despite it being on our priority list.
We've had absolutely no buying or engagement from others in
relation to that. And indeed, more recently the Humpty Do
Activity Center has been passed by the government. Now that
(04:20):
activity center, it puts a road right through any three
twenty Arham Highway block and there's other road There's a
huge amount of roadworks are associated with that. So that
is a probably a five to ten year program before
we can even get the block of land we need.
So anything we've done in the past, and certainly we
came up with some you know, some plans and some concepts,
(04:41):
they're all null and void that they're not relevant anymore.
So three twenty arum Highway is not a viable option
in the short or medium term. One, it's going to
cost ten or fifteen million dollars to do. Two the
site won't even be ready for at least five years.
So why should we disadvantage everyone for the next five
to ten years by pinning on all our hopes on
(05:02):
a pipe dream.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
So mark from your perspective, why do you think it's
imperative that the library does move?
Speaker 1 (05:11):
I think the big thing for me is the lack
of access. Many of our residents don't even know that
we had a library at to Minmn. Elderly people, mothers
with children, they don't feel safe going to that environment
on some occasions.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
And this is on the bloody terrible situation. Isn't it
like if they don't feel safe going into a school.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
It is, it is, And this is on the public record.
Over the last couple of years, there's five pages of
interruptions in relation to to Winmin high Now, the majority
of those I won't talk to who cause those interruptions,
But there's been lockdowns, there's been foul language in front
of mothers groups, there's been people been abused, So we've
got to look at one the safety of the people
(05:55):
using the library, but also the safety of the students.
You know, it's just not conducive to a controlled environment.
And certainly, you know, to mim in High has come
out very strongly in favor of a relocation because they
want their space for their students. They don't want the
public wandering in and out of the school.
Speaker 2 (06:13):
In terms of that relocation, like does everything that's in
that library now, all those books, et cetera, will that
go to the new site.
Speaker 1 (06:23):
There's a detailed memorandum of understanding that details who owns
what specifically where the line in the sand is. I'm
not sure, but certainly things like the Lichfield collection will
be moving over and will finally be given a proper
home to display itself. If there is gaps in what
(06:44):
is going to be moved over either way, I'm sure
the NTG government, tomim and High will fill those gaps
and certainly council will as well.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
Mark in terms of you know, the discussion that's been
had about the most recent consultation, so people going out
to the waste transfer station being asked questions out there,
I mean from the numbers that I was given, and
it seems as though most people are actually opposed to
the relocation of this library based on those most recent numbers.
(07:15):
I mean, what do you say to that.
Speaker 1 (07:17):
Based on those most recent numbers, you are correct there
was a majority opposed. But I suppose one thing about
the surveys that were undertaken. First of all, Facebook surveys
were done by literaryal counsel and also by others. Well,
especially in relation to the ones done by others, there's
(07:38):
absolutely no supporting documentation or information, just a black and
white question.
Speaker 2 (07:43):
So.
Speaker 1 (07:46):
We need to be really careful about treating those as
representative as of our whole community. In relation to the
surveys done at the waste transfer stations, again not perfect,
but it's building on all the other consultation dating back
to twenty seventeen, it was raised, why wasn't there a
(08:07):
consultation at Humpty Do waste transfer station. Well, there's no
controlled gate there, so people just drive in and out.
They don't need to stop, so I wouldn't have been
practical or safe for a survey to be undertaken there.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
Look, I guess for me, I'm just like, right now,
this morning. Obviously, the City of Darwin's just sent out
a statement saying that they're going to be looking at
a gym being built at the perhaps swimming pool, and
there is a whole online survey for people to do.
I've just jumped on it and had a quick look.
Why didn't the Litchfield Council do something like that?
Speaker 1 (08:40):
In a perfect world we would have had all the
time in the world to undertake more extents.
Speaker 2 (08:45):
But if there's been consultation since twenty seventeen, like, why
hasn't something like that ever been done? I guess, like
for me, that's a real standout question when I look
at the comparisons of how another council is doing something.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
So the consultations done in twenty seventeen and twenty twenty
one were extensive. They included stakeholder groups, they included the public.
So I can't talk to exactly the modes of consultation,
but I am very much assured and it's in the
documentation and both these reports have been public record as well. Yep,
there's the consultation was very wide ranging.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
And so how come not this time with this twenty
twenty five consultation, how come you know, not an online
survey or something for people to actually do.
Speaker 1 (09:31):
It Basically came down to timing. Council was presented with
an opportunity where an appropriate space had become available at COOLINGA,
and based on the historical consultations and the additional consultation
that was done, a decision was made to act on
that opportunity. Less maybe, look, god.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
I totally get that. I totally get that. Obviously a
commercial space has become available, But isn't it more important
consult with people to make sure that you get it
right rather than rushing into a commercial lease? And over
what period of time is that lease going to be okay?
Speaker 1 (10:09):
So again, the decision hasn't been rushed. It's based on fact,
it's based on considered reports from twenty seventeen and twenty
twenty one. In relation to the lease, I would suggest
it would be in the order of five to ten years.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
I mean that's like that is a long commercial lease,
and I think that anybody that's dealt with the commercial
lease will know it's really difficult to get out of.
So basically then what that is doing is locking the
Lichfield Council into between five to ten year lease at
that shopping center and really cutting out the opportunity I
(10:48):
would suspect to be able to build your own standalone
library if that opportunity presents.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
Okay, So there will be no opportunity to build our
own library in least ten years. The whole issue is
gone nowhere for the last four We won't even have
MTG doing their works in the next five to ten
years potentially, so building a our own building is not viable.
It would also cost ten to fifteen million dollars. Now
(11:15):
we've had absolutely no appetite for someone to help us
fund that we've tried over the last four years. So
building our own building is not viable. And also once
you build your own building, everyone that would own a
house or a commercial properly would know the maintenance stack
adds up. So if you actually look at the figures
the rental that we will be paying, and obviously that's
(11:36):
commercial and confidences, it compares favorably to the cost of
building our own building and maintaining our own building. Not
to mention that you know that, say we did spend
ten or fifteen million dollars, that would all have to
come out of somewhere, so we wouldn't be getting interest
on the money in the bank. For that, it just
makes sense to lease a building in the short to
(11:57):
medium term.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
Mark, what is your message for anybody that is a
Lichfield resident that's listening this morning, that's feeling frustrated, that's
thinking you're not listening to what I'm saying, or there
might be some that are gone. Do you know what,
this is actually a really good idea, But what is
your message to those Lichfield residents this morning?
Speaker 1 (12:14):
What I can assure Lichfield residents and rate payers is
that this decision was not rushed. It reflects long term planning,
sound advice, and a real opportunity to deliver a better
outcome for the community. And we are confident that relocating
the library. A relocated library will be well used and
a much loved hub for learning, in connection and inclusion.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
Mike, I just does just before I let you go.
And my understanding is that across the board, right across
the Northern Territory, there will be elections for counselors in
August this year. Would it be a better thing to
just hold off until then? And you know, like wait
until then. I know it's a few months away, it
(12:57):
is a little while away. But not lock the council
into a five to ten year lease until you have
done that, you know, further consultation, or until you're sort
of you know, I really make sure that it's what
the community wants.
Speaker 1 (13:13):
We're elected to do a job for the community and
that was to make decisions, to make hard decisions in
some instances. And what I see that we've done in
this case is we've made a decision for the community
on carefully based carefully on facts. If it was to
go to additional consultation or after the next election, for instance,
(13:38):
the opportunity to move it to the space that has
been identified wouldn't be there. So we had a certain
amount of time to act, and we have acted and
it will benefit so so many in our community.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
So has the lease already been signed.
Speaker 1 (13:55):
I'm not privy exactly to that information, but it's certainly
in train.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
Yeah. Well, Mark Side the Lichfield Deputy mayor. I really
appreciate you coming in this morning. I think it's really
important to have discussions and make sure that you hear
both sides of the story. So I really appreciate your
time this morning. Thank you very much for joining me
in the studio. And no doubt we'll talk again soon.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
Thank you for having me, Katie, thank you
Three sixty with Katie Wolf for Darwin International Airport. Your
connection to the world starts with Darwin International Airport.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
You are listening to Mix one O four nine's three sixty. Now,
there's certainly a lot happening around the Northern Territory. There
always is, and we do our best to make sure
we cover it all. Now, over the last couple of
weeks you may have heard me speak on the show
to the Lichfield Mayor, Doug Barden, about will changes to
the library and the library out in the rural area
(00:31):
moving from to mid min College to cooler Linga shopping center.
There's certainly been some opponents to it. There's been some
that really do want this to happen. Now to hear.
The other side of things is the Litchfield Deputy Mayor,
Mark saidy, good morning to you.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
Mark, Good morning, Katie, good morning listeners.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
Thank you very much for coming in now. Mark, obviously
you are the deputy mayor now, I don't want you
to get in any trouble for speaking to me. I
do think though, that it is really important that our
elected members are actually able to come on the show
and speak through issues that territorians care about.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
Yeah, no, absolutely, Katie, and thank you for that. I
just got a premise this discussion by saying, in appearing
here today, the views that I am giving are my
own personally, but they are in support of a council
motion that was passed properly, and they are consistent with
three of my other colleagues. So four of us and
totally all.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
Right, so Mark. Last week we spoke to Doug Barton.
He raised concerns about the fact that you know that
the library is moving. I've got to say, probably the
biggest concern that I've heard from listeners is not so
much the library moving, but people feeling like there hasn't
been enough consultation. What's your response to that.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
I can acknowledge the sentiment of the people expressing those concerns.
But part of the reason I wanted to appear today
is to set some facts straight, because there has been
a lot of disinformation out there about what has been
historically done and the reasons things moved relatively quickly in
the end. So Counsel has already conducted significant consultations in
(02:10):
twenty seventeen and twenty twenty one. The twenty seventeen study
was done by UTS cost fifty thousand dollars. The twenty
twenty one study was done by Atria Group cost forty
five thousand dollars. Now, as a result of these studies
and both were in agreement, it was a very clear
recommendation that the site at to midmin High was no
longer fit for purpose for a multitude of reasons, and
(02:32):
that relocation was what needed to occur. And it also
went further and said relocation to a retail hub such
as cool Linger was a very very good idea.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
So those two reports, from what you're saying, they literally
seed that it should move to cooler Linger, to the
shopping center there.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
Absolutely correct, Katie, Absolutely correct.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
In terms of I mean, there has been some pushback
from local residents say and Katie, I want the library
to move, but I don't feel as though cooler LINGA
Central is the right place. I don't feel like it's
going to be the easiest place for seniors, for moms
with prams, that kind of thing to be able to
get into. They're wondering whether there should actually be a
(03:19):
fit for purpose council building built.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
So this issue came up in January twenty twenty two
and council resolved to proceed with the relocation of Themandmum Library.
I actually voted against that at that stage. My reasons
for doing so were twofold. One, I didn't think we
could afford it. Now our finances have changed, we've kept
rates to three percent this year, we can certainly afford it.
(03:46):
The second reason was I was very much of the
opinion that it was viable in the short to medium
term to develop a standalone facility at three tourny Onham Highway.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
Now, in the past four years that has been that
has gone absolutely nowhere, despite it being on our priority list.
We've had absolutely no buying or engagement from others in
relation to that. And indeed, more recently the Humpty Do
Activity Center has been passed by the government. Now that
(04:20):
activity center, it puts a road right through any three
twenty Arham Highway block and there's other road There's a
huge amount of roadworks are associated with that. So that
is a probably a five to ten year program before
we can even get the block of land we need.
So anything we've done in the past, and certainly we
came up with some you know, some plans and some concepts,
(04:41):
they're all null and void that they're not relevant anymore.
So three twenty arum Highway is not a viable option
in the short or medium term. One, it's going to
cost ten or fifteen million dollars to do. Two the
site won't even be ready for at least five years.
So why should we disadvantage everyone for the next five
to ten years by pinning on all our hopes on
(05:02):
a pipe dream.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
So mark from your perspective, why do you think it's
imperative that the library does move?
Speaker 1 (05:11):
I think the big thing for me is the lack
of access. Many of our residents don't even know that
we had a library at to Minmn. Elderly people, mothers
with children, they don't feel safe going to that environment
on some occasions.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
And this is on the bloody terrible situation. Isn't it
like if they don't feel safe going into a school.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
It is, it is, And this is on the public record.
Over the last couple of years, there's five pages of
interruptions in relation to to Winmin high Now, the majority
of those I won't talk to who cause those interruptions,
But there's been lockdowns, there's been foul language in front
of mothers groups, there's been people been abused, So we've
got to look at one the safety of the people
(05:55):
using the library, but also the safety of the students.
You know, it's just not conducive to a controlled environment.
And certainly, you know, to mim in High has come
out very strongly in favor of a relocation because they
want their space for their students. They don't want the
public wandering in and out of the school.
Speaker 2 (06:13):
In terms of that relocation, like does everything that's in
that library now, all those books, et cetera, will that
go to the new site.
Speaker 1 (06:23):
There's a detailed memorandum of understanding that details who owns
what specifically where the line in the sand is. I'm
not sure, but certainly things like the Lichfield collection will
be moving over and will finally be given a proper
home to display itself. If there is gaps in what
(06:44):
is going to be moved over either way, I'm sure
the NTG government, tomim and High will fill those gaps
and certainly council will as well.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
Mark in terms of you know, the discussion that's been
had about the most recent consultation, so people going out
to the waste transfer station being asked questions out there,
I mean from the numbers that I was given, and
it seems as though most people are actually opposed to
the relocation of this library based on those most recent numbers.
(07:15):
I mean, what do you say to that.
Speaker 1 (07:17):
Based on those most recent numbers, you are correct there
was a majority opposed. But I suppose one thing about
the surveys that were undertaken. First of all, Facebook surveys
were done by literaryal counsel and also by others. Well,
especially in relation to the ones done by others, there's
(07:38):
absolutely no supporting documentation or information, just a black and
white question.
Speaker 2 (07:43):
So.
Speaker 1 (07:46):
We need to be really careful about treating those as
representative as of our whole community. In relation to the
surveys done at the waste transfer stations, again not perfect,
but it's building on all the other consultation dating back
to twenty seventeen, it was raised, why wasn't there a
(08:07):
consultation at Humpty Do waste transfer station. Well, there's no
controlled gate there, so people just drive in and out.
They don't need to stop, so I wouldn't have been
practical or safe for a survey to be undertaken there.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
Look, I guess for me, I'm just like, right now,
this morning. Obviously, the City of Darwin's just sent out
a statement saying that they're going to be looking at
a gym being built at the perhaps swimming pool, and
there is a whole online survey for people to do.
I've just jumped on it and had a quick look.
Why didn't the Litchfield Council do something like that?
Speaker 1 (08:40):
In a perfect world we would have had all the
time in the world to undertake more extents.
Speaker 2 (08:45):
But if there's been consultation since twenty seventeen, like, why
hasn't something like that ever been done? I guess, like
for me, that's a real standout question when I look
at the comparisons of how another council is doing something.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
So the consultations done in twenty seventeen and twenty twenty
one were extensive. They included stakeholder groups, they included the public.
So I can't talk to exactly the modes of consultation,
but I am very much assured and it's in the
documentation and both these reports have been public record as well. Yep,
there's the consultation was very wide ranging.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
And so how come not this time with this twenty
twenty five consultation, how come you know, not an online
survey or something for people to actually do.
Speaker 1 (09:31):
It Basically came down to timing. Council was presented with
an opportunity where an appropriate space had become available at COOLINGA,
and based on the historical consultations and the additional consultation
that was done, a decision was made to act on
that opportunity. Less maybe, look, god.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
I totally get that. I totally get that. Obviously a
commercial space has become available, But isn't it more important
consult with people to make sure that you get it
right rather than rushing into a commercial lease? And over
what period of time is that lease going to be okay?
Speaker 1 (10:09):
So again, the decision hasn't been rushed. It's based on fact,
it's based on considered reports from twenty seventeen and twenty
twenty one. In relation to the lease, I would suggest
it would be in the order of five to ten years.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
I mean that's like that is a long commercial lease,
and I think that anybody that's dealt with the commercial
lease will know it's really difficult to get out of.
So basically then what that is doing is locking the
Lichfield Council into between five to ten year lease at
that shopping center and really cutting out the opportunity I
(10:48):
would suspect to be able to build your own standalone
library if that opportunity presents.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
Okay, So there will be no opportunity to build our
own library in least ten years. The whole issue is
gone nowhere for the last four We won't even have
MTG doing their works in the next five to ten
years potentially, so building a our own building is not viable.
It would also cost ten to fifteen million dollars. Now
(11:15):
we've had absolutely no appetite for someone to help us
fund that we've tried over the last four years. So
building our own building is not viable. And also once
you build your own building, everyone that would own a
house or a commercial properly would know the maintenance stack
adds up. So if you actually look at the figures
the rental that we will be paying, and obviously that's
(11:36):
commercial and confidences, it compares favorably to the cost of
building our own building and maintaining our own building. Not
to mention that you know that, say we did spend
ten or fifteen million dollars, that would all have to
come out of somewhere, so we wouldn't be getting interest
on the money in the bank. For that, it just
makes sense to lease a building in the short to
(11:57):
medium term.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
Mark, what is your message for anybody that is a
Lichfield resident that's listening this morning, that's feeling frustrated, that's
thinking you're not listening to what I'm saying, or there
might be some that are gone. Do you know what,
this is actually a really good idea, But what is
your message to those Lichfield residents this morning?
Speaker 1 (12:14):
What I can assure Lichfield residents and rate payers is
that this decision was not rushed. It reflects long term planning,
sound advice, and a real opportunity to deliver a better
outcome for the community. And we are confident that relocating
the library. A relocated library will be well used and
a much loved hub for learning, in connection and inclusion.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
Mike, I just does just before I let you go.
And my understanding is that across the board, right across
the Northern Territory, there will be elections for counselors in
August this year. Would it be a better thing to
just hold off until then? And you know, like wait
until then. I know it's a few months away, it
(12:57):
is a little while away. But not lock the council
into a five to ten year lease until you have
done that, you know, further consultation, or until you're sort
of you know, I really make sure that it's what
the community wants.
Speaker 1 (13:13):
We're elected to do a job for the community and
that was to make decisions, to make hard decisions in
some instances. And what I see that we've done in
this case is we've made a decision for the community
on carefully based carefully on facts. If it was to
go to additional consultation or after the next election, for instance,
(13:38):
the opportunity to move it to the space that has
been identified wouldn't be there. So we had a certain
amount of time to act, and we have acted and
it will benefit so so many in our community.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
So has the lease already been signed.
Speaker 1 (13:55):
I'm not privy exactly to that information, but it's certainly
in train.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
Yeah. Well, Mark Side the Lichfield Deputy mayor. I really
appreciate you coming in this morning. I think it's really
important to have discussions and make sure that you hear
both sides of the story. So I really appreciate your
time this morning. Thank you very much for joining me
in the studio. And no doubt we'll talk again soon.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
Thank you for having me, Katie, thank you
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