NT News Court Reporter Harry Brill explains what happened in court following Commonwealth charges against construction industry figures

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
We know this. A trio of Territorians were charged over
a multimillion dollar Commonwealth fraud scheme and they're now on
bail after appearing in court for the first time yesterday. Now,
we tried to speak to him yesterday but the timing
didn't quite work out, but he joins us on the
line now it is nt News journalist Harry Brill.

Speaker 2 (00:20):
Good morning, Harry, Good morning, Kay, Good morning to your listeners.

Speaker 1 (00:24):
Ate, thanks so much for your time this morning. And
I understand it was pretty intense in the courtroom yesterday.
Tell us what happened.

Speaker 2 (00:33):
Yeah, it was, Actually it was super tense. So when
the morning kicked off, the Alligare spender's names weren't actually
on the coll list, so everyone rocked up the Dyle
and Local court on the belief that they were going
to be there, but it wasn't official. And then it's
sort of it's sort of just unfolded. So started off
with friends and family of the ques rocking up, and

(00:55):
then there was a big pack of federal agents that
rocked up. So pofs is uniformed and not uniformed. They
arrived and as soon as we're in the courthouse, it
could just sense that there was real high anticipation. Everyone
didn't know which court room they were going to be in.
We didn't know if they're want to split up. But yeah,
it was very intense and if anyone who's been style

(01:16):
on local court, you know it's a bit of a scramble.
But yesterday was quite exceptional.

Speaker 1 (01:21):
So Harry talk us through what happened then as those
court proceedings got underway. From what I from what I
could read from your reporting, they did actually all three
were in court at the same time. Is that correct?

Speaker 2 (01:34):
Yeah? Correct, So they went one after the other. It
was quick succession. There was no mucking around. It was
a little bit of if you were sitting in the
body of the court, it felt a little bit like
deja voo because the statement of alleged facts, I understand
would read quite similar to one another, and joke Ball totally.
He acknowledged as much. But yeah, it basically started off

(01:56):
with mister Michael Buckley. He went first and he was
sort of the catalyst for the other two because Sam
and the Ledgebacks are the same and the conditions that
they were bailed on were the same. So it was
very quick. It was organized. The prosecution and the defense.
They clearly liaiged well and truly early so they could
get in and out as quickly as possible. But yeah,

(02:19):
it was very clean, very quick.

Speaker 1 (02:21):
So Harry talk us through their bail conditions, so I
understand there's quite a few of them, and by the
sounds of it, fairly strect conditions.

Speaker 2 (02:29):
Yeah, it really was, I suppose not surprising given the allegations,
but they were very lengthy and as a reporter it
was very hard to keep up with. There was a
lot of keyboards being banged on by all the reporters
in there. But in the end there were more than
ten conditions that were laid, and a few of them
were I guess what you would regard as fairly generic

(02:51):
so be of good behavior. But then there were a
lot of niche conditions that were that were also imposed.
So for example, surrendering passports, you're only allowed to be
a possession of one mobile device once in card. You're
not allowed to be on encrypted messaging platforms, so think
you whatched up your signal, your telegram, and not to

(03:12):
communicate with any prosecution witnesses or persons of interests, and
that included fellow accused except in the case of missus Win.
But yeah, it was a very lengthy, very tight bail plan.

Speaker 1 (03:25):
Yeah. Now, Harry, have the AFP said anything more about
the investigation, given that they flagged that it was continuing
and that there could be more charges to come.

Speaker 2 (03:36):
No, they haven't. They've been very very cagey, very tight lipped.
They've been prepared to shed light on I suppose the
big muscle movements of the investigation. They've been from the
outset quite quite clear that this is a large scale operation.
They have told us that this is ongoing. As you
mentioned that there's been more than more than eighty officers

(03:58):
so far involved, and that's and key word there is
so far because this is something that could drag on
for we don't know how long, so we will learn
more in the future. But the AP they've been very cagey,
and it's quite clear because for the last eight months,
when this investigation has been unraveling, it's just been business

(04:20):
as usual for MJ Builders. Yeah, you know, we've seen
all the activities that they've been involved in those last
eight months. You wouldn't think that a building company like
that would be would be getting combed over. So look,
they'd be very cagy and I don't think they want
to want to compromise anything that they're doing regarding this.

Speaker 1 (04:39):
Yeah, no doubt, you know, particularly if those investigations are ongoing.
So Harry, when are we expecting the trio back in
court now? And you know, any idea sort of what
will happen next.

Speaker 2 (04:53):
Well, Look, it's going to be a pretty it's going
to be a very long Christmas for for everyone who's
interested in this. They're going to be back in February
and that's going to be for a preliminary examination mentioned
so for those out there who are unfamiliar with that, Basically,
it's just an opportunity for the party to sit down
before before the judge and go through some of the
evidence that's been tabled, identify any issues pertain to their

(05:18):
legal matters, see if a plea can or can't be entered,
things like that. So, look, we've still got some the
long road ahead of us in this. And Judge ball
Tolly himself, he acknowledged that he said it's likely this
we will go to Supreme Court. So look, we are
we are very much still in the first phase of its.

Speaker 1 (05:41):
Entire And Harry, I know you mentioned a little earlier. Obviously,
those agreed facts that you know that we discussed yesterday,
and you know there will be further evidence tabled, no
doubt about it. You know, if this investigation is still
underway and it's been eight months in the making, was
there much further detail shared in terms of when you

(06:02):
heard those agreed facts? I suppose other than what we
already you know, what we'd already been told in the
sense you know that we're talking sort of seventy one
million dollars.

Speaker 2 (06:14):
Unfortunately, No, and this is this is a great mystery
that's eating away at all of us. So all we
know is what we what we heard from from the
get go, which is that this is seventy one million
dollars pertaining to Commonwealth money, so Department of Defense. Probably
something of note is that the aff said it pertains

(06:35):
to contracts. So what we do know is this is
there's more than one contract that's supposedly made up this
seventy one million, But no, they have not spoken to
specifically what contracts, what projects. It's it's killing us as
reporters because obviously we'd love to know as much as
your listeners would. But this is stuff that we expect

(06:56):
to unravel in the coming months, and perhaps they PEE
themselves will bring this to light as well as their
investigation on folds. But yeah, I think noting you know
how how import this investigation is, the AFP will probably
want less ed on this than not. Ye. I think

(07:18):
they themselves are still trying to figure out how deep
this goes. So it's all.

Speaker 1 (07:23):
Very raw, keeping their cards close to their chest, no
doubt about it, particularly when you're talking about such a
huge alleged sum of money. Harry, before I let you go,
I know that M and J Builders did send out
a statement yesterday to their contractors and too, I'm presuming
to their staff as well. I'll take our listeners through
that a bit later. Have you guys have any reporters

(07:44):
from the NT and you've sort of been out there
to see whether they are sort of business as usual
at this point in time.

Speaker 2 (07:51):
Yeah. So one of our reporters, Bodihood, she actually did
pass by M and J yesterday. It looks business as usual.
Bo I won't speak on her behalf, but a report
that she did issue was that it just looked like
it was another day on the WORKID. Obviously it rained out,
but people were in their in their gear, they were

(08:11):
in their kid they in their vehicles. It looked like
operations are still underway.

Speaker 1 (08:16):
Yeah, well, and you know it would be tough going
for the staff, for contractors, everybody involved in those different projects.
We're going to talk a little bit more about, you know,
about what this means, I guess, to the building and
construction industry. In a few minutes time, we'll catch up
with Master Builders. But Harry Brill really appreciate your time
this morning, and appreciate your insight from yesterday as well.

(08:37):
We'll talk to you again soon.