November 18, 2024 • 20 mins
Are we giving kids the equivalent of car keys to a digital world they're not prepared to navigate?
In this episode, Dr. Justin Coulson and guest Matt Purcell dive into the complex issue of kids and social media. From the psychological toll it takes on young users to the uphill battle parents face in managing screen time, we explore practical solutions and innovative tools like 'Social Kung Fu' to empower families and to protect our children.
In this episode:
- Impact of social media on youth mental health
- Age restrictions for social media
- Balancing online independence & safety
- Forming alliances among families (The Heads Up Alliance, Unplug Childhood)
- Algorithms
- Holding social media accountable
- Social Kung Fu - equipping kids with verbal & cyber self-defence skills
- Code of conduct with devices
Related Links:
- 5 Ways to Set Screen Time Limits With Your Children
- Unplugged Parenthood: Reducing Screen Time to Strengthen Family Connections
- The Screen Smart Series
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
It's their Happy Families podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
It's the podcast for the time poor parent who just
wants answers.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
Now, Hello and welcome to a Happy Family's podcast. My
name's doctor Justin Colson. So good of you to join
us today. As discussions intensify around implementing age restrictions for
social media use, particularly the idea of raising the limits
to sixteen years of age, experts continually warn that these
measures are going to inadvertently, as much as we would
(00:31):
like it to not be the case, shift the burden
of responsibility on the parents, rather than providing a comprehensive
solution that will keep our kids safe, keep them offline
until that well, I mean, even sixteen's arguably not old enough,
but let's just keep it there for now. Research shows
that social media is having an impact on youth mental
health in all the weird nations of the world. Weird
meaning Western educated, industrialized, rich, and democratics. So we're talking
(00:54):
about Astralia and New Zealand, the US, the UK, Canada,
North and West Europe, and a whole lot of other
similar nations. We're seeing data that highlights that increasingly young
people are experiencing challenges with mental health and A key
predictor of those challenges appears to be their time on
social media. There was a Headspace report that found that
forty two percent of young Australians cite social media as
(01:16):
a key factor in their cognitive and psychological, and social
and emotional and even their physiological challenges. Matt Purcell is
the founder of Social kung Fu. Social Kung Fu is
a world first training program that's designed to empower youth
with the communication skills and resilience they need to defend
themselves against verbal abuse and a whole lot of other
challenges that come with being online. And it joins me
(01:37):
on the podcast today. Matt, great to be with you,
Thanks for having a chat.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
That's great being here. Thanks doctor Justin.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
I want to talk to you shortly about Social kung
film what you do there. I just love the name.
I'm not a great great name for a company, but
let me ask you this. You've spoken fairly consistently in
what you do in this social media space about the
challenges of enforcing age restrictions on social media platforms. This
is a question that I from parents endlessly, never endingly.
How do I keep the kids off, especially when all
(02:04):
their friends are on there, and even if I have
some sort of bands in my home, they just borrow
their friends devices and they use social media there. My
question for you is how can parents not just monitor
but being involved in the management of their children's social
media use when there are so many obstacles to being
able to do that effectively and the online digital space
(02:25):
keeps changing as well.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
Yeah, I think we've really failed our kids in this area,
just in the sense of the government is pretty much
and social media platforms have given kids car keys to
essentially drive social media at age thirteen without well, I
mean you think of the drivers learner's tests. At least
you're meant to pass some type of law, I mean
(02:47):
some type of tests to know what difference between safe
driving and dangerous driving is. And then once you pass
that with knowledge and you've got to be viewed. The
parents has to be ahead of the kid. So if
we learned that's the good parallel I've found here is
where parents are a lot behind the eight ball because
the kids are running rings around them. Because we have
(03:09):
it really as a nation or West or being, literacy
is not the same with things, so we don't know
what's right or wrong. So I do think the right
step in the right direction is for restrictions to be
placed into hopefully into Australia at sixteen minimally, and it
will just give it parents a good reset, a chance
(03:31):
to reset their values, re express that you know what
the governments and forces now we have to relook at
a few of the devices and things like that. I
think parents would love a chance to go back in
time and push reset on what they could do. But
one of the things I've been really encouraging parents to
do is to form alliances with other families that have
(03:55):
a similar value in their household of maybe no social
media zone or limited screen time in their families. I
do that with my family. I have a Facebook group
of people who actually say, yeah, we're families that don't
have social media up to this certain age, so that
it doesn't create this fear of missing out, a fear
of being left out in the kids. They've got friends
(04:17):
and families have friends that also to create this type
of relationship there, so there's no bullying happening because you're
not on it.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
Yeah, there are a couple of things that strike me
as you speak there, Matt. First of all, that idea
of the keys. I typically extend that metaphor a little
further and just say, I don't know if every state
has this for cars, but I'm pretty sure it is
the case with motorcycles. You get a motorcycle license at
whatever age, and you're on your l's or your p's, whatever,
and there are very clear restrictions. Just because you're pass
(04:46):
the test. Just because you've got the license doesn't mean
it's open slather. It's carte blanche and you can jump
on the bigg eleven hundred cced to caddy and go
wherever you want and do whatever you want. They usually
restrict young riders to it two hundred and fifty cc
motorcycle for the first year of their riding so that
they can get their experience and learn how to do
it safely. And this idea that you're just well, you're thirteen,
(05:09):
now here's the keys, jump on the computer, social medias
or yours, it's I think it's it's just well.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
What kind of results justin were we ever expecting other
than car crashes? Online cyberbullying, you got fishing, you got
like posters, you've got people imposing as other people group chats,
there is it is completely like giving a twelve year
old keysh to I think you're right, like restrictions are
(05:37):
really important. It's a really important thing to place on
new people with any like dangerous potentially harmful thing, because
restrictions look at doing two things. One is balancing the
balancing giving youth independence but also keeping others safe. And
that's the two things we have to balance. You what
(05:57):
age is appropriate to be able to give them independence,
but also not to protect others from harming them harming others.
So I do think it's been debated amongst I think
it's been pretty much agreed upon most countries. Actually just
sixteen seventeen eighteen. There's a couple of years difference across
the West in the Greens on when a kid can
(06:19):
drive in their age. Differ for drinking is different. So
I think there's one thing that would help move the
need a little bit forward.
Speaker 1 (06:28):
There are platforms that are beginning to take some steps
to create safer environments for younger years, as usually because
of pressure from grassroots activism, from parents who are, as
you said, getting together and forming alliances. I love the
Heads Up Alliance that just does great work and says
exactly what you're saying, right, let's band together as parents
and work on this. I have a website called Unplugged
(06:51):
Childhood dot org that says exactly the same thing. Delay
giving the kid's devices form these alliances so the kids
have got families that you can trust, that they can
spend time with, and then when the time comes, move slowly.
But what I want to know from you is, without
any governmental or bottom up pressure, a social media company's
going to change Part one and then part two? What
(07:14):
changes could they make from your perspective to create healthy engagement,
healthy use of their platforms.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
Yeah, I got a lot to say about this. Actually,
I don't think social media is do a partner freendshit
or really to be able to make their platform safe,
a safe place for particularly young people. An example of
that is you've got to look at intent based marketing
and non intent bested marketing. The difference is simply this,
(07:43):
when I search for something on the Internet that's intent
based marketing, I'm looking for it. So that's on the user.
So if we use the analogy you're driving a car,
there's rather user issues and there's manufacturing issues on the
car to make it safe. So that's on me. And
how I use this device, we choose to log in
and stuff, But at the same time there's non intent
(08:03):
based marketing, which is I'm not looking for this type
of thing at all, it's popping up in my feed.
That's definitely on the social media platforms. Why are extremist
types of content being shown to young people is beyond me,
like there is So the algorithm is within the platform's
ability and that needs to be questioned, maybe by third
(08:25):
party platform on how that is done. Usually how social
media like to operate is based on engagement. So if
this is what creates this issue of eco chambers where
if you engage us in in say a topic, say
you like sport as harmless as sport, the agreth is
set up to say, okay, we'll feed us in more sport.
That's great. But then algorithm fees is something you haven't
(08:49):
searched for, but you might spend some time on it.
It might be some political thing, or extremist thing, or
sexual thing even like it might be non age appropriate
for kids. If they spend you know, three to four
to five seconds that longer than unusual posts, they'll just
keep feeding that. So that's where I really want social
media to be held accountable for is are they as
(09:09):
a manufacturer, say, as a car, creating the best safety features?
And if bullying was happening on my platforms, I'd be
doing everything in my power to educate, to be able
to use AI or whatever I can and monitor what's happening,
to be able to flag better I think, or use
the curation even the algorithm to force feed educational anti
(09:30):
bullying tactics or self well being science back to proven
can't see young people on there. That's what the power
social media could be. These platforms could be educating the
people at more than just feeding you know, people who
are paying them the.
Speaker 1 (09:43):
Most right and alarm and outrage create the engagement. So
we've got kids who are filming fights in the school yard,
provoking other people so that they can get the reactions,
so they can post it online, so they can get
the popularity, they can get the likes, they can get
the status. We've got kids who are feeling awful about
themselves and they're being fed pro anorexia content they're being
(10:05):
I mean, we've got whistleblower content. We've actually got data here,
whistleblower evidence that shows that they're being fared a diet
of I'm not only going to say it on the podcast,
just stuff that will only exacerbate metal world challenges. Yeah,
Matt Purcell from Social kung Fu, you have a social
(10:27):
kung Fu program. I'm curious to hear about it. This
conversation is pretty much the first time I've heard of
you and what you do. My understanding of Social kung
Fu is that you try to help young people with
communication skills and resilience. Tell me a bit a bit
more about what you're doing as an organization to make
a difference in what is a very very challenging environment.
Speaker 2 (10:51):
Well, those who are just listening to the podcast, if
this is audio podcast, they won't see that I'm actually Asian,
So I'm Korean hardware, Korean hardware and Aussie Soft Where gotcha?
And I was adopted as a kid and everything was
cool until my parents split when I was six, and
that same year I went on to a new school
bus and to a new school and was picked on
(11:13):
by several years seven students verbally abused are physically abused
for months.
Speaker 1 (11:19):
So then they're twelve thirteen and you're six, and they're
giving it to you because you were Asian.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
Yeah, because I'm Asian. I was an early Asian kid
in my school and on that school bus. Wow, and
I was defenseless. And I held that secret until my
mom found out. And when they found out, the school
did their thing, which didn't really deal with I've very
much discovered very early early on in my life that
I was on my own the school. My mom can't
(11:44):
come on the bus, my dad can't come, The teachers
aren't going to do it. There needs to be evidence,
and there needs to be some type of skill that
there was a skill in me that wasn't there just
by hoping that someone would help me. I needed to
figure it out. So my dad put me martial arts
lessons come through lessons, caarate lessons, and it resulted in
me turning violent and defending myself against bullying. First of all,
(12:08):
was started self defense, and then I turned into a
bully because of so hurt and I went through a
lot of therapy and a lot of counseling as a
kid and came out the other side very very very well.
And now I help students deal with the same issue
because if you look at the research, the most common
formal abuse in the West isn't kicks or punches, it's
(12:29):
actually verbal abuse and verbal abuse. There's no we've got crabacgard,
we've got boxing or UFC with all these forms of
physical self defense codes, but it comes with words, texting,
and talking, which is majority of what gets us in trouble.
Words get you hired, they get you fired, they get
your divorce, they gets your dates. They can create war,
they can create peace. There's lots of forms of communications
(12:51):
because but there's no uniforms, curated, evidence based program that
I could find that help young people deal with the
cyber attacks on verbal attacks in person and online. And
that's why I created Social Kung Fu. I have ten
years over ten years of experience with as an NDIS
provider back in the day, helped six hundred families a
(13:11):
week through youth camps, music lessons, shootoring, and had a
youth center with fifty plus staff. And I saw firsthand
the damage of cyber bullying when it was arising in
twenty fourteen plus, and that's why I created Social Kungfu,
so verbal self defense black belt for young kids to
be able to defend themselves and their worth with their
(13:32):
thumbs and their.
Speaker 1 (13:33):
Tongues without having to get violent without.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
Having to get to that point. If you have to,
you have to. But we can de escalate things, we
can deflect. We can do so much with our words.
I say in Social kung Fu, words create worlds.
Speaker 1 (13:46):
Matt really appreciate you sharing that. Thank you. Social kung
Fu is the name of the organization. I have two
more questions that I'd like to run by you, just
as we move things to a conclusion. We talked fair
a bit about how the social media companies it's not
in their interest to make any change that are going
to reduce engagement. The algorithm being inflammatory and andcendury is
in their interest. And attention is the currency of the domain.
(14:07):
The more attention they've got, the more engagement there is.
The more engagement there is, the more advertising there is,
the more revenue there is, the more shareholder value increases,
the more the market capitalization goes up. The owners really
is on parents, and too many parents are just struggling
and throwing up their arms and saying, I just don't
know what to do here. If we were to extend
this conversation into sort of a nice neat bundle and
(14:28):
look for like a thirty or forty second wrap up,
what would you say is the ideal role of an
Australian government who is almost powerless relative to the US,
basically because that's where the companies are. What's the ideal
role of the Istraian government and social media companies when
it comes to making online safer for our kids?
Speaker 2 (14:50):
I think if the government and the social media platforms
can work together to create a literacy, which will help
because I know a lot of parents that just are
so far behind the kids run rings around them, they
wouldn't even know where to start. Parents need equipping, they
(15:13):
need education, they need to be a user of these platforms,
and I think that could be a really good start,
is to it. Like to back to the driver's knowledge
test situation. The reason why there's a parent in the
car next to the kid as they're driving, it's because
that parent knows more than that kid and the skill
level is at not near levels they know. So I
(15:35):
think there needs to be something there. But I do
think that the owners just needs to be on listen.
We're the ones who give devices. Parents, the responsibility is
on you to be able to say okay, you provide
the opportunity to be able to be on it. So
you're going to manage in your house to treat every
single device that has access to the Internet as if
it's a family device, not just a child's device. I
(15:57):
can't tell you justin how many parents phone for Christmas
and I've had the crisis to their children and the
children says it's mine. Well, I think you should rein
it in and treat it as if it was a
work device. So we've got company devices that gifted to
you to be not to abuse it or you'll lose it.
But you've got a use.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
And every company has a very clear policy around what
can be done and what can't be done on that device.
If you do the wrong thing on that device and
the company finds out, you will not just lose the device,
you'll lose your job, right, I mean, there are very
clear guidelines around how these devices could be used and
what for.
Speaker 2 (16:30):
There needs to be a less formal version of this,
like a code of contact in the house, I mean,
and put it on a bloody fridge, talk about it
at dinner and lunch until and breakfast until it actually
seeps in that like based on social media reports, based
on I think it was one of the UK University
reports from twenty twenty three it was three hours a day.
(16:54):
Has coalationship with increased the anxiety and depression. So we
can use some true data suggest if you're on your
social media devices more than x amount of hours, say
an hour a day, then that's gonna equal you're gonna
most likely feel down. You're going to feel now energized,
and we're not going to have life together as a family.
As a mom and dad, I want us to be
(17:14):
able to be together rather than be on our screens.
So you're gonna hate me till you're old enough to
make your own choices. But this is what's going to happen.
And I think parents, I know this. I can speak
from experience adjusted having having helped six hundred families a
week with my old my Youth Center. Parents need to
step up again and risk being hated for a period
(17:36):
of time. There might be property damage. I've seen kids
go I hate this change. You know, they've like rebelled
and it's acted out and you need to hold strong.
It's like in other areas of your life, you want
to let your daughter or your son just go and
hang out someone's house that you wouldn't know. It's strangers
and stuff like that. You've got to hold yourself to
(17:56):
the same stand as you would for other values you have.
This phone, unmanned is going to kill your kids.
Speaker 1 (18:03):
So the advice that I picked up as we've gone
through this conversation is fairly consistent with the things that
I share with families. That is that the devices, even
if you give them to the kids, still remain family property.
You've also hid a lot of the importance having a
parental alliance within the community. And the other thing that
has come through many, many, many times is just the
(18:24):
importance of having appropriate limits for your kids. Matt really
appreciate you sharing what you have on the Happy Families podcast.
If people want to find out more about social kung Fu,
where can they go?
Speaker 2 (18:35):
Head to Social kung Fu dot com dot AU. There's
a book that I'm writing right now with a lawyer,
some clinical psychologists, and special needs specialists, and it's going
to be the most conclusive free book. We're going to
release this for free. But any parent that's got their
(18:57):
kids being bullied in school right now actually knowing your rights,
or if your parents your kid is being bullied so
that your school doesn't ignore you. We've had so many
unfortunately at list two or three media known suicides this year.
Semi Ters who was ten. He took his own life
because he was picked on boy's teeth and through his
glasses and school buses for years and his parents rang
(19:20):
the school up thirty times and the school didn't count
that as any report. We've got others and it's awful
what's happening. So we need to help give parents power
back as much as we can. So keep an eye out.
That's going to come out early twenty twenty five for free.
Speaker 1 (19:34):
All right, beautiful stuff, love the generosity. Matt Purcell from
Social kung Fu. We will link to Social kung Fu
in the show notes. Thanks for the chat, Thanks Justin.
The Happy Family's podcast is produced by Justin Rwan from
Bridge Media. Check out the show notes and have a
look at what Social kung Fu offers. These conversations matter
so very much. If you'd like more information about making
your family happier, we'd lovely visit our social media platforms,
(19:57):
ironically on Facebook and Instagram. You can find a whole
lot more at Happy families dot com dot a um
Speaker 2 (20:11):
HM
It's their Happy Families podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
It's the podcast for the time poor parent who just
wants answers.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
Now, Hello and welcome to a Happy Family's podcast. My
name's doctor Justin Colson. So good of you to join
us today. As discussions intensify around implementing age restrictions for
social media use, particularly the idea of raising the limits
to sixteen years of age, experts continually warn that these
measures are going to inadvertently, as much as we would
(00:31):
like it to not be the case, shift the burden
of responsibility on the parents, rather than providing a comprehensive
solution that will keep our kids safe, keep them offline
until that well, I mean, even sixteen's arguably not old enough,
but let's just keep it there for now. Research shows
that social media is having an impact on youth mental
health in all the weird nations of the world. Weird
meaning Western educated, industrialized, rich, and democratics. So we're talking
(00:54):
about Astralia and New Zealand, the US, the UK, Canada,
North and West Europe, and a whole lot of other
similar nations. We're seeing data that highlights that increasingly young
people are experiencing challenges with mental health and A key
predictor of those challenges appears to be their time on
social media. There was a Headspace report that found that
forty two percent of young Australians cite social media as
(01:16):
a key factor in their cognitive and psychological, and social
and emotional and even their physiological challenges. Matt Purcell is
the founder of Social kung Fu. Social Kung Fu is
a world first training program that's designed to empower youth
with the communication skills and resilience they need to defend
themselves against verbal abuse and a whole lot of other
challenges that come with being online. And it joins me
(01:37):
on the podcast today. Matt, great to be with you,
Thanks for having a chat.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
That's great being here. Thanks doctor Justin.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
I want to talk to you shortly about Social kung
film what you do there. I just love the name.
I'm not a great great name for a company, but
let me ask you this. You've spoken fairly consistently in
what you do in this social media space about the
challenges of enforcing age restrictions on social media platforms. This
is a question that I from parents endlessly, never endingly.
How do I keep the kids off, especially when all
(02:04):
their friends are on there, and even if I have
some sort of bands in my home, they just borrow
their friends devices and they use social media there. My
question for you is how can parents not just monitor
but being involved in the management of their children's social
media use when there are so many obstacles to being
able to do that effectively and the online digital space
(02:25):
keeps changing as well.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
Yeah, I think we've really failed our kids in this area,
just in the sense of the government is pretty much
and social media platforms have given kids car keys to
essentially drive social media at age thirteen without well, I
mean you think of the drivers learner's tests. At least
you're meant to pass some type of law, I mean
(02:47):
some type of tests to know what difference between safe
driving and dangerous driving is. And then once you pass
that with knowledge and you've got to be viewed. The
parents has to be ahead of the kid. So if
we learned that's the good parallel I've found here is
where parents are a lot behind the eight ball because
the kids are running rings around them. Because we have
(03:09):
it really as a nation or West or being, literacy
is not the same with things, so we don't know
what's right or wrong. So I do think the right
step in the right direction is for restrictions to be
placed into hopefully into Australia at sixteen minimally, and it
will just give it parents a good reset, a chance
(03:31):
to reset their values, re express that you know what
the governments and forces now we have to relook at
a few of the devices and things like that. I
think parents would love a chance to go back in
time and push reset on what they could do. But
one of the things I've been really encouraging parents to
do is to form alliances with other families that have
(03:55):
a similar value in their household of maybe no social
media zone or limited screen time in their families. I
do that with my family. I have a Facebook group
of people who actually say, yeah, we're families that don't
have social media up to this certain age, so that
it doesn't create this fear of missing out, a fear
of being left out in the kids. They've got friends
(04:17):
and families have friends that also to create this type
of relationship there, so there's no bullying happening because you're
not on it.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
Yeah, there are a couple of things that strike me
as you speak there, Matt. First of all, that idea
of the keys. I typically extend that metaphor a little
further and just say, I don't know if every state
has this for cars, but I'm pretty sure it is
the case with motorcycles. You get a motorcycle license at
whatever age, and you're on your l's or your p's, whatever,
and there are very clear restrictions. Just because you're pass
(04:46):
the test. Just because you've got the license doesn't mean
it's open slather. It's carte blanche and you can jump
on the bigg eleven hundred cced to caddy and go
wherever you want and do whatever you want. They usually
restrict young riders to it two hundred and fifty cc
motorcycle for the first year of their riding so that
they can get their experience and learn how to do
it safely. And this idea that you're just well, you're thirteen,
(05:09):
now here's the keys, jump on the computer, social medias
or yours, it's I think it's it's just well.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
What kind of results justin were we ever expecting other
than car crashes? Online cyberbullying, you got fishing, you got
like posters, you've got people imposing as other people group chats,
there is it is completely like giving a twelve year
old keysh to I think you're right, like restrictions are
(05:37):
really important. It's a really important thing to place on
new people with any like dangerous potentially harmful thing, because
restrictions look at doing two things. One is balancing the
balancing giving youth independence but also keeping others safe. And
that's the two things we have to balance. You what
(05:57):
age is appropriate to be able to give them independence,
but also not to protect others from harming them harming others.
So I do think it's been debated amongst I think
it's been pretty much agreed upon most countries. Actually just
sixteen seventeen eighteen. There's a couple of years difference across
the West in the Greens on when a kid can
(06:19):
drive in their age. Differ for drinking is different. So
I think there's one thing that would help move the
need a little bit forward.
Speaker 1 (06:28):
There are platforms that are beginning to take some steps
to create safer environments for younger years, as usually because
of pressure from grassroots activism, from parents who are, as
you said, getting together and forming alliances. I love the
Heads Up Alliance that just does great work and says
exactly what you're saying, right, let's band together as parents
and work on this. I have a website called Unplugged
(06:51):
Childhood dot org that says exactly the same thing. Delay
giving the kid's devices form these alliances so the kids
have got families that you can trust, that they can
spend time with, and then when the time comes, move slowly.
But what I want to know from you is, without
any governmental or bottom up pressure, a social media company's
going to change Part one and then part two? What
(07:14):
changes could they make from your perspective to create healthy engagement,
healthy use of their platforms.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
Yeah, I got a lot to say about this. Actually,
I don't think social media is do a partner freendshit
or really to be able to make their platform safe,
a safe place for particularly young people. An example of
that is you've got to look at intent based marketing
and non intent bested marketing. The difference is simply this,
(07:43):
when I search for something on the Internet that's intent
based marketing, I'm looking for it. So that's on the user.
So if we use the analogy you're driving a car,
there's rather user issues and there's manufacturing issues on the
car to make it safe. So that's on me. And
how I use this device, we choose to log in
and stuff, But at the same time there's non intent
(08:03):
based marketing, which is I'm not looking for this type
of thing at all, it's popping up in my feed.
That's definitely on the social media platforms. Why are extremist
types of content being shown to young people is beyond me,
like there is So the algorithm is within the platform's
ability and that needs to be questioned, maybe by third
(08:25):
party platform on how that is done. Usually how social
media like to operate is based on engagement. So if
this is what creates this issue of eco chambers where
if you engage us in in say a topic, say
you like sport as harmless as sport, the agreth is
set up to say, okay, we'll feed us in more sport.
That's great. But then algorithm fees is something you haven't
(08:49):
searched for, but you might spend some time on it.
It might be some political thing, or extremist thing, or
sexual thing even like it might be non age appropriate
for kids. If they spend you know, three to four
to five seconds that longer than unusual posts, they'll just
keep feeding that. So that's where I really want social
media to be held accountable for is are they as
(09:09):
a manufacturer, say, as a car, creating the best safety features?
And if bullying was happening on my platforms, I'd be
doing everything in my power to educate, to be able
to use AI or whatever I can and monitor what's happening,
to be able to flag better I think, or use
the curation even the algorithm to force feed educational anti
(09:30):
bullying tactics or self well being science back to proven
can't see young people on there. That's what the power
social media could be. These platforms could be educating the
people at more than just feeding you know, people who
are paying them the.
Speaker 1 (09:43):
Most right and alarm and outrage create the engagement. So
we've got kids who are filming fights in the school yard,
provoking other people so that they can get the reactions,
so they can post it online, so they can get
the popularity, they can get the likes, they can get
the status. We've got kids who are feeling awful about
themselves and they're being fed pro anorexia content they're being
(10:05):
I mean, we've got whistleblower content. We've actually got data here,
whistleblower evidence that shows that they're being fared a diet
of I'm not only going to say it on the podcast,
just stuff that will only exacerbate metal world challenges. Yeah,
Matt Purcell from Social kung Fu, you have a social
(10:27):
kung Fu program. I'm curious to hear about it. This
conversation is pretty much the first time I've heard of
you and what you do. My understanding of Social kung
Fu is that you try to help young people with
communication skills and resilience. Tell me a bit a bit
more about what you're doing as an organization to make
a difference in what is a very very challenging environment.
Speaker 2 (10:51):
Well, those who are just listening to the podcast, if
this is audio podcast, they won't see that I'm actually Asian,
So I'm Korean hardware, Korean hardware and Aussie Soft Where gotcha?
And I was adopted as a kid and everything was
cool until my parents split when I was six, and
that same year I went on to a new school
bus and to a new school and was picked on
(11:13):
by several years seven students verbally abused are physically abused
for months.
Speaker 1 (11:19):
So then they're twelve thirteen and you're six, and they're
giving it to you because you were Asian.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
Yeah, because I'm Asian. I was an early Asian kid
in my school and on that school bus. Wow, and
I was defenseless. And I held that secret until my
mom found out. And when they found out, the school
did their thing, which didn't really deal with I've very
much discovered very early early on in my life that
I was on my own the school. My mom can't
(11:44):
come on the bus, my dad can't come, The teachers
aren't going to do it. There needs to be evidence,
and there needs to be some type of skill that
there was a skill in me that wasn't there just
by hoping that someone would help me. I needed to
figure it out. So my dad put me martial arts
lessons come through lessons, caarate lessons, and it resulted in
me turning violent and defending myself against bullying. First of all,
(12:08):
was started self defense, and then I turned into a
bully because of so hurt and I went through a
lot of therapy and a lot of counseling as a
kid and came out the other side very very very well.
And now I help students deal with the same issue
because if you look at the research, the most common
formal abuse in the West isn't kicks or punches, it's
(12:29):
actually verbal abuse and verbal abuse. There's no we've got crabacgard,
we've got boxing or UFC with all these forms of
physical self defense codes, but it comes with words, texting,
and talking, which is majority of what gets us in trouble.
Words get you hired, they get you fired, they get
your divorce, they gets your dates. They can create war,
they can create peace. There's lots of forms of communications
(12:51):
because but there's no uniforms, curated, evidence based program that
I could find that help young people deal with the
cyber attacks on verbal attacks in person and online. And
that's why I created Social Kung Fu. I have ten
years over ten years of experience with as an NDIS
provider back in the day, helped six hundred families a
(13:11):
week through youth camps, music lessons, shootoring, and had a
youth center with fifty plus staff. And I saw firsthand
the damage of cyber bullying when it was arising in
twenty fourteen plus, and that's why I created Social Kungfu,
so verbal self defense black belt for young kids to
be able to defend themselves and their worth with their
(13:32):
thumbs and their.
Speaker 1 (13:33):
Tongues without having to get violent without.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
Having to get to that point. If you have to,
you have to. But we can de escalate things, we
can deflect. We can do so much with our words.
I say in Social kung Fu, words create worlds.
Speaker 1 (13:46):
Matt really appreciate you sharing that. Thank you. Social kung
Fu is the name of the organization. I have two
more questions that I'd like to run by you, just
as we move things to a conclusion. We talked fair
a bit about how the social media companies it's not
in their interest to make any change that are going
to reduce engagement. The algorithm being inflammatory and andcendury is
in their interest. And attention is the currency of the domain.
(14:07):
The more attention they've got, the more engagement there is.
The more engagement there is, the more advertising there is,
the more revenue there is, the more shareholder value increases,
the more the market capitalization goes up. The owners really
is on parents, and too many parents are just struggling
and throwing up their arms and saying, I just don't
know what to do here. If we were to extend
this conversation into sort of a nice neat bundle and
(14:28):
look for like a thirty or forty second wrap up,
what would you say is the ideal role of an
Australian government who is almost powerless relative to the US,
basically because that's where the companies are. What's the ideal
role of the Istraian government and social media companies when
it comes to making online safer for our kids?
Speaker 2 (14:50):
I think if the government and the social media platforms
can work together to create a literacy, which will help
because I know a lot of parents that just are
so far behind the kids run rings around them, they
wouldn't even know where to start. Parents need equipping, they
(15:13):
need education, they need to be a user of these platforms,
and I think that could be a really good start,
is to it. Like to back to the driver's knowledge
test situation. The reason why there's a parent in the
car next to the kid as they're driving, it's because
that parent knows more than that kid and the skill
level is at not near levels they know. So I
(15:35):
think there needs to be something there. But I do
think that the owners just needs to be on listen.
We're the ones who give devices. Parents, the responsibility is
on you to be able to say okay, you provide
the opportunity to be able to be on it. So
you're going to manage in your house to treat every
single device that has access to the Internet as if
it's a family device, not just a child's device. I
(15:57):
can't tell you justin how many parents phone for Christmas
and I've had the crisis to their children and the
children says it's mine. Well, I think you should rein
it in and treat it as if it was a
work device. So we've got company devices that gifted to
you to be not to abuse it or you'll lose it.
But you've got a use.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
And every company has a very clear policy around what
can be done and what can't be done on that device.
If you do the wrong thing on that device and
the company finds out, you will not just lose the device,
you'll lose your job, right, I mean, there are very
clear guidelines around how these devices could be used and
what for.
Speaker 2 (16:30):
There needs to be a less formal version of this,
like a code of contact in the house, I mean,
and put it on a bloody fridge, talk about it
at dinner and lunch until and breakfast until it actually
seeps in that like based on social media reports, based
on I think it was one of the UK University
reports from twenty twenty three it was three hours a day.
(16:54):
Has coalationship with increased the anxiety and depression. So we
can use some true data suggest if you're on your
social media devices more than x amount of hours, say
an hour a day, then that's gonna equal you're gonna
most likely feel down. You're going to feel now energized,
and we're not going to have life together as a family.
As a mom and dad, I want us to be
(17:14):
able to be together rather than be on our screens.
So you're gonna hate me till you're old enough to
make your own choices. But this is what's going to happen.
And I think parents, I know this. I can speak
from experience adjusted having having helped six hundred families a
week with my old my Youth Center. Parents need to
step up again and risk being hated for a period
(17:36):
of time. There might be property damage. I've seen kids
go I hate this change. You know, they've like rebelled
and it's acted out and you need to hold strong.
It's like in other areas of your life, you want
to let your daughter or your son just go and
hang out someone's house that you wouldn't know. It's strangers
and stuff like that. You've got to hold yourself to
(17:56):
the same stand as you would for other values you have.
This phone, unmanned is going to kill your kids.
Speaker 1 (18:03):
So the advice that I picked up as we've gone
through this conversation is fairly consistent with the things that
I share with families. That is that the devices, even
if you give them to the kids, still remain family property.
You've also hid a lot of the importance having a
parental alliance within the community. And the other thing that
has come through many, many, many times is just the
(18:24):
importance of having appropriate limits for your kids. Matt really
appreciate you sharing what you have on the Happy Families podcast.
If people want to find out more about social kung Fu,
where can they go?
Speaker 2 (18:35):
Head to Social kung Fu dot com dot AU. There's
a book that I'm writing right now with a lawyer,
some clinical psychologists, and special needs specialists, and it's going
to be the most conclusive free book. We're going to
release this for free. But any parent that's got their
(18:57):
kids being bullied in school right now actually knowing your rights,
or if your parents your kid is being bullied so
that your school doesn't ignore you. We've had so many
unfortunately at list two or three media known suicides this year.
Semi Ters who was ten. He took his own life
because he was picked on boy's teeth and through his
glasses and school buses for years and his parents rang
(19:20):
the school up thirty times and the school didn't count
that as any report. We've got others and it's awful
what's happening. So we need to help give parents power
back as much as we can. So keep an eye out.
That's going to come out early twenty twenty five for free.
Speaker 1 (19:34):
All right, beautiful stuff, love the generosity. Matt Purcell from
Social kung Fu. We will link to Social kung Fu
in the show notes. Thanks for the chat, Thanks Justin.
The Happy Family's podcast is produced by Justin Rwan from
Bridge Media. Check out the show notes and have a
look at what Social kung Fu offers. These conversations matter
so very much. If you'd like more information about making
your family happier, we'd lovely visit our social media platforms,
(19:57):
ironically on Facebook and Instagram. You can find a whole
lot more at Happy families dot com dot a um
Speaker 2 (20:11):
HM
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