January 21, 2025 • 12 mins
Understanding the right type of conversation can transform family communication and deepen connections with our children. Justin and Kylie explore insights from Pulitzer Prize winner Charles Duhigg's book "Super Communicators".
Key Points:
- Understanding the three types of conversations: practical, emotional, and social
- Why fixing problems isn't always what our children need
- How to identify which conversation your child wants to have
- The importance of asking "Why am I talking?" (WAIT)
- When connection matters more than correction
Quote of the Episode: "We tend to remember the conversations that are connection as opposed to just information exchange." - Charles Duhigg
Key Insights:
- Most memorable conversations are ones where children do the talking
- Parents often default to "fix-it" mode when children need emotional support
- Simple questions can reveal what type of conversation is needed
- The power of asking "How can I help?" or "What do you need?"
Personal Stories Shared:
- Justin's "professor moment" with his daughter walking up the hill
- The powerful feedback: "I don't need you to be my psychologist. I need you to be my dad."
- Examples of transforming typical parent-child interactions
Action Steps for Parents:
- Ask what type of conversation your child wants to have
- Practice the WAIT principle (Why Am I Talking?)
- Focus on listening more than solving
- Learn to identify practical vs. emotional vs. social conversations
- Create space for connection rather than correction
Resources Mentioned:
- "Super Communicators" by Charles Duhigg
- Full interview available in Saturday's episode
- happyfamilies.com.au
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
Wouldn't it just be amazing if you could be a
super communicator? Kylie? Do you feel like you're a super communicator?
Speaker 2 (00:14):
It depends where I'm talking to you.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
With me, with the kids, with the family Today on
the Happy Families podcast How to Be a Super Communicator,
based on a book from New York Times best selling
author Charles Duhig. Hello and welcome to the Happy Family's podcast,
Real Parenting Solutions, every single day on Australia's most downloaded
parenting podcast. I'm just I'm here with Kylie and today, well,
(00:38):
I had a chat with Charles Doulhig. Charles Delhig is
a Pulitzerprise winning journalist, like I said, New York Times
bestselling author who happens to be fascinated by how humans work,
from our habits to the way we communicate. And when
he's not writing best sellers like The Power of Habit,
which is a personal favorite of mine and has been
sitting on my bookshelf. I've read it, by the way
for many years and also Smarter, Faster, Better. He's at
(00:59):
home with these two boys and his wife in Santa Cruz, California.
So I chatted with him, Kylie. He blew me away
with what he had to say, and we're going to
play his full interview on Saturday for our special weekend
episode of the Happy Families podcast. But you and I've
got some stuff to talk about because he said some really,
really great stuff that we should dissect today on the pod.
(01:20):
First thing that struck me was a beautiful illustration about
how we can be super communicators with our kids. Check
this out.
Speaker 3 (01:26):
If you think back to the conversations you had with
your parents, or I think back to the conversations I
had with my parents, there are very few conversations that
stand out in my mind where my dad gave me
a piece of advice and I was like, gosh, darn it,
he's right, change everything. Yeah right, it might have happened.
It probably did happen, but I have managed to forget
all of them. But the conversations I remember with my
(01:48):
dad were the ones where either I told him how
I was feeling, or he asked me something and I
said something in response that kind of surprised me. We
tended to remember the conversations that are connection as opposed
to just information exchange, and it's really hard. It's really
hard to connect when like one person has all the
answers and one person has all the questions. That's not
(02:11):
a meeting of equals.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
So last week on the podcast, I shared an experience
I had with one of our daughters who was wanting
to do something that she knew I was going to
struggle to say yes too. And she came and she
asked me for permission, and I was in the middle
of something and I just acknowledged her at that moment
that I didn't feel good about it, and I could
feel the emotions building up very very quickly within her.
(02:37):
She managed to kind of kia wash them a little bit,
push them down, and she said, Mum, she said, I
know you're busy right now, but she said, I really
want to have an adult conversation about this, So can
you make some time.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
Isn't it great when your teenagers start saying, I know
you're busy, I want to talk about something important. I
want to be an adult about it. When would be
a good time? I mean, what a beautiful sign of maturity.
And the you kids are getting older and growing up
so nice.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
And this has been a bit of training on our
part because when the kids have come to us with
difficult questions or requests, of us, and their emotions get
built up because we're not giving them the response they want.
I have acknowledged them time and time again. If you
want to be treated like an adult, if you want
to be given this greater privilege, then this requires being
(03:26):
able to sit in this hard place and have an
adult to adult conversation. I love how Charles talks about
the idea that our kids want to be treated like equals.
They want to feel like they have as much stake
in the conversation as you. If you're the only one talking,
if you're the only one finding solutions, then our kids
(03:49):
don't feel connection. They just feel like they've been berated,
they're being nagged, they're being talked at. They're not able
to connect.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
Going back probably ten years maybe more, when our eldest,
who is now in her mid Twentin was a young teenager,
I remember walking up the hill towards our home one
afternoon and I was doing my best to teach her,
to help her to understand how life works. And I
was expounding the mysteries of the universe too, or I
mean I was doing such a great job. I think
(04:16):
she was struggling with some friends, or she was struggling
with something at school or whatever it was, and I
was in full blown lecture mode. Keep in mind, at
the time, I was still a university lecturer, so that's
what I got paid to do. I got paid to profess.
It's like a university professor. And while I was professing
all of this stuff, she looked at me. Let's say
she was twelve years old, eleven years old, something like that,
(04:38):
and she said, Dad, why are you always trying to
teach me stuff? Then she added, I don't need you
to be my psychologist. I need you to be my dad.
And what she's really saying is, Dad, I want connection.
This is the thing that we talk about all the
time on the Happy Families podcast, in all of my
books and all of my presentations. Connection is feeling seen
(04:58):
and heard and valued.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
When we get on our high horse, we actually make
them feel inferior.
Speaker 1 (05:04):
Right. Here's the thing. If you go back to Charles' comment,
I reckon, if we were to sit down with any
of our kids and say, hey, what are the conversations
that you most remember that we've had, I'll guarantee Chanelle
won't remember walking up that hill and saying, Dad, why
are you always trying to teach me stuff. She'll have
forgotten it completely. Why because there was no connection. She
wasn't feeling seen, hurt and valued. She had a father
(05:24):
who was being a psychologist, being a professor, telling her
all the stuff that she was I guess not quite
measuring up with all the stuff that she needed to
know so that she could navigate life better. Just doesn't work.
Speaker 2 (05:36):
One of the acronyms that you use from time to
time is the word weight.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
Wait.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
I love this.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
That weight stands for why am I talking?
Speaker 2 (05:49):
Why am I talking? When we're sitting down with our kids,
we need to ask ourselves why am I talking in
this moment? Because the conversations our kids will remember actually
the ones where they're doing most of the talking.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
Which means that if we're going to be a super
communicated with our children, or even with our husband or
wife or partner or spouse.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
It's actually about turning.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
It's about asking questions.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
Yeah, it turning it on its head. It's not about
us talking, right, It's actually about us asking questions, facilitating
a discussion, and then.
Speaker 1 (06:16):
Listening after the break. We talk about the three types
of conversations. Charles Dohig has identified as what everyone's looking
for when they're trying to connect Kylie. When I was
speaking with Charles Douhig and we are playing the entire interview, gosh,
(06:37):
it's a good interview. It's one of my favorite interviews ever.
When I was talking to Charles, we talked about the
three different types of conversations that people have.
Speaker 3 (06:48):
So, like, you know, when they were a little bit younger,
they would come to tell me about something, and I
would assume that they were coming to tell me about
it because they wanted to me to solvents, right because
their brother hit them, or because they something happened at school,
and I assumed they were looking for my advice. I assumed,
in other words, that they wanted to have a practical conversation.
(07:10):
But pretty quickly, what I realized, what all parents realize,
is no, no, no, no. When these children come to you,
what they actually want is they want to have an
emotional conversation. And the thing is that if what we've
learned from neuroscience is that if you're having different kinds
of conversations at the same time, you can't really hear
each other. Right. When I would come home from work
and I would complain about my day, and my wife
(07:31):
would say, oh, you know, why don't you take your
boss out to lunch. You guys get to know each
other a little bit better. I would get even more
upset because I wanted to have an emotional conversation. I
want to tell her how I felt, and she wanted
to have a practical conversation. She wanted to solve the problem.
And those are both entirely legitimate forms of communication. But
when you're not having the same kind of conversation at
the same moment, you can't connect with each other, you
(07:52):
can't fully hear each other. So you're exactly right when
it comes to kids, oftentimes, what the first thing we
have to ask ourselves is what kind of conversation has happened?
Speaker 1 (08:02):
So in the book Super Communicators, Charles writes about these
three types of conversations. There are practical conversations that is,
how do I do this? Can you help me fix this?
I'm hungry, I need food. There's emotional conversations I'm feeling this,
I'm struggling with that, I'm mad, I'm frustrated, I'm sad,
I'm excited. And there's social conversations. Social conversations are the
(08:25):
kinds of conversations where we're looking at one another and saying,
this is how we relate to each other. These are
the identities that are important to us.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
It's interesting as he was speaking about these three different conversations,
my default response was, as a male, you are so
interfix it mode, solutions, solutions.
Speaker 1 (08:50):
I feel like I've just been gendered. You have been
because I think as a parent, like I'm going to
go one further. I think males do it because that's
typically what they do all the time. But if you're
in a position of power or authority, if you're in
a position where you have know how, you automatically assume
that when somebody is coming to you they want a
(09:11):
problem fixed.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
We didn't let me finish because as I was sitting
there listening and feeling very vilified because you're the one
who's fix it man all the time when it comes
to conversations, it occurred to me that nearly every time
the kids come to me with an emotional challenge, there
is a desire to fix it for them, and so
(09:34):
you're exactly right when you're in that place of power.
Number One, we hate to see other people suffering, especially
when it's our kids, and so our initial reaction too
often is to try and solve it, to try and
fix it without giving our children grace, a space of grace,
(09:56):
and acknowledging that they actually have got what they need
within them. We're just there to help guide them to
find the answers.
Speaker 1 (10:03):
There's something that I've been doing since I've read the book,
and I don't know if you've noticed it or not,
but as we're having a conversation, or as I'm talking
with the children, as the conversation progresses, i will look
at you or one of the children, and I'll ask
a simple question. Essentially, I'm saying, what type of conversation
are we having? And I asked that question by saying
something along the lines of what are you hoping to
(10:25):
get out of this? Or how can I help? Or
what is it that you want? Why are you telling
me this? Have you noticed that I've been saying that, Yeah,
you do it all the time. I was hoping that
you'd say no, because I was doing it so easily
and so incidentally, like it's just part of the conversation.
But the reason I do it all the time is
because when you say I just want to be understood,
(10:45):
or I just want to be held, or I don't
know what to do here and I need some guidance,
or when you say I just want to work out
where we sit in relation to the issue. I know
whether we're having a practical conversation or an identity based
social conversation, or whether we're having an emotional conversation. You
just want to be held and hugged and listened to
and have my presence.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
Later in the interview, he actually talks about whether or
not our children want a hug, they want to be helped,
or they just want to feel heard, right, and it
just yeah, it's beautiful.
Speaker 1 (11:14):
Simple strategy. When you're having a conversation with your kids
or with anybody at all, How can I help here
or what is it that made you come to me
and share this with me? Finding out what the conversation
is about helps you to be a far better communicator
and make sure that you're not talking past each other.
How useful of those tips, How great are those ideas
to take home message, Let's make sure that we connect
(11:36):
with our kids and ask lots of questions and specifically
understand what kind of conversation we're having. Great in the
view a great conversation with Charles Douek. We will play
the entire thing on Saturday from go to woh so
that you can get all of the best snippets. I
recommend the book as well. The book is called Super Communicators,
How Do Unlock the Secret Language of Connection? Compelling storytelling,
(11:59):
amazing sights. I loved it. Charles Doing is the author
of that book, New York Times bestselling author and Pulit
Surprise winning journalist. The Happy Family's podcast is produced by
Justin Rowland from Bridge Media. Please leave us a five
star rating and review if you're enjoying the pod. When
you do that, it helps other people to find the
podcast make their families happier. Oh and you get a
little bit of a warm, fuzzy inside because you've helped
(12:19):
us to help other people. Everyone wins and it only
takes you twenty or thirty seconds to do it. Wherever
you're listening, leave us a five star rating and a review. Please.
If you'd like more information and more resources about making
your family happier, you'll find it all a Happy Families
dot com dot au
Wouldn't it just be amazing if you could be a
super communicator? Kylie? Do you feel like you're a super communicator?
Speaker 2 (00:14):
It depends where I'm talking to you.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
With me, with the kids, with the family Today on
the Happy Families podcast How to Be a Super Communicator,
based on a book from New York Times best selling
author Charles Duhig. Hello and welcome to the Happy Family's podcast,
Real Parenting Solutions, every single day on Australia's most downloaded
parenting podcast. I'm just I'm here with Kylie and today, well,
(00:38):
I had a chat with Charles Doulhig. Charles Delhig is
a Pulitzerprise winning journalist, like I said, New York Times
bestselling author who happens to be fascinated by how humans work,
from our habits to the way we communicate. And when
he's not writing best sellers like The Power of Habit,
which is a personal favorite of mine and has been
sitting on my bookshelf. I've read it, by the way
for many years and also Smarter, Faster, Better. He's at
(00:59):
home with these two boys and his wife in Santa Cruz, California.
So I chatted with him, Kylie. He blew me away
with what he had to say, and we're going to
play his full interview on Saturday for our special weekend
episode of the Happy Families podcast. But you and I've
got some stuff to talk about because he said some really,
really great stuff that we should dissect today on the pod.
(01:20):
First thing that struck me was a beautiful illustration about
how we can be super communicators with our kids. Check
this out.
Speaker 3 (01:26):
If you think back to the conversations you had with
your parents, or I think back to the conversations I
had with my parents, there are very few conversations that
stand out in my mind where my dad gave me
a piece of advice and I was like, gosh, darn it,
he's right, change everything. Yeah right, it might have happened.
It probably did happen, but I have managed to forget
all of them. But the conversations I remember with my
(01:48):
dad were the ones where either I told him how
I was feeling, or he asked me something and I
said something in response that kind of surprised me. We
tended to remember the conversations that are connection as opposed
to just information exchange, and it's really hard. It's really
hard to connect when like one person has all the
answers and one person has all the questions. That's not
(02:11):
a meeting of equals.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
So last week on the podcast, I shared an experience
I had with one of our daughters who was wanting
to do something that she knew I was going to
struggle to say yes too. And she came and she
asked me for permission, and I was in the middle
of something and I just acknowledged her at that moment
that I didn't feel good about it, and I could
feel the emotions building up very very quickly within her.
(02:37):
She managed to kind of kia wash them a little bit,
push them down, and she said, Mum, she said, I
know you're busy right now, but she said, I really
want to have an adult conversation about this, So can
you make some time.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
Isn't it great when your teenagers start saying, I know
you're busy, I want to talk about something important. I
want to be an adult about it. When would be
a good time? I mean, what a beautiful sign of maturity.
And the you kids are getting older and growing up
so nice.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
And this has been a bit of training on our
part because when the kids have come to us with
difficult questions or requests, of us, and their emotions get
built up because we're not giving them the response they want.
I have acknowledged them time and time again. If you
want to be treated like an adult, if you want
to be given this greater privilege, then this requires being
(03:26):
able to sit in this hard place and have an
adult to adult conversation. I love how Charles talks about
the idea that our kids want to be treated like equals.
They want to feel like they have as much stake
in the conversation as you. If you're the only one talking,
if you're the only one finding solutions, then our kids
(03:49):
don't feel connection. They just feel like they've been berated,
they're being nagged, they're being talked at. They're not able
to connect.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
Going back probably ten years maybe more, when our eldest,
who is now in her mid Twentin was a young teenager,
I remember walking up the hill towards our home one
afternoon and I was doing my best to teach her,
to help her to understand how life works. And I
was expounding the mysteries of the universe too, or I
mean I was doing such a great job. I think
(04:16):
she was struggling with some friends, or she was struggling
with something at school or whatever it was, and I
was in full blown lecture mode. Keep in mind, at
the time, I was still a university lecturer, so that's
what I got paid to do. I got paid to profess.
It's like a university professor. And while I was professing
all of this stuff, she looked at me. Let's say
she was twelve years old, eleven years old, something like that,
(04:38):
and she said, Dad, why are you always trying to
teach me stuff? Then she added, I don't need you
to be my psychologist. I need you to be my dad.
And what she's really saying is, Dad, I want connection.
This is the thing that we talk about all the
time on the Happy Families podcast, in all of my
books and all of my presentations. Connection is feeling seen
(04:58):
and heard and valued.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
When we get on our high horse, we actually make
them feel inferior.
Speaker 1 (05:04):
Right. Here's the thing. If you go back to Charles' comment,
I reckon, if we were to sit down with any
of our kids and say, hey, what are the conversations
that you most remember that we've had, I'll guarantee Chanelle
won't remember walking up that hill and saying, Dad, why
are you always trying to teach me stuff. She'll have
forgotten it completely. Why because there was no connection. She
wasn't feeling seen, hurt and valued. She had a father
(05:24):
who was being a psychologist, being a professor, telling her
all the stuff that she was I guess not quite
measuring up with all the stuff that she needed to
know so that she could navigate life better. Just doesn't work.
Speaker 2 (05:36):
One of the acronyms that you use from time to
time is the word weight.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
Wait.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
I love this.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
That weight stands for why am I talking?
Speaker 2 (05:49):
Why am I talking? When we're sitting down with our kids,
we need to ask ourselves why am I talking in
this moment? Because the conversations our kids will remember actually
the ones where they're doing most of the talking.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
Which means that if we're going to be a super
communicated with our children, or even with our husband or
wife or partner or spouse.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
It's actually about turning.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
It's about asking questions.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
Yeah, it turning it on its head. It's not about
us talking, right, It's actually about us asking questions, facilitating
a discussion, and then.
Speaker 1 (06:16):
Listening after the break. We talk about the three types
of conversations. Charles Dohig has identified as what everyone's looking
for when they're trying to connect Kylie. When I was
speaking with Charles Douhig and we are playing the entire interview, gosh,
(06:37):
it's a good interview. It's one of my favorite interviews ever.
When I was talking to Charles, we talked about the
three different types of conversations that people have.
Speaker 3 (06:48):
So, like, you know, when they were a little bit younger,
they would come to tell me about something, and I
would assume that they were coming to tell me about
it because they wanted to me to solvents, right because
their brother hit them, or because they something happened at school,
and I assumed they were looking for my advice. I assumed,
in other words, that they wanted to have a practical conversation.
(07:10):
But pretty quickly, what I realized, what all parents realize,
is no, no, no, no. When these children come to you,
what they actually want is they want to have an
emotional conversation. And the thing is that if what we've
learned from neuroscience is that if you're having different kinds
of conversations at the same time, you can't really hear
each other. Right. When I would come home from work
and I would complain about my day, and my wife
(07:31):
would say, oh, you know, why don't you take your
boss out to lunch. You guys get to know each
other a little bit better. I would get even more
upset because I wanted to have an emotional conversation. I
want to tell her how I felt, and she wanted
to have a practical conversation. She wanted to solve the problem.
And those are both entirely legitimate forms of communication. But
when you're not having the same kind of conversation at
the same moment, you can't connect with each other, you
(07:52):
can't fully hear each other. So you're exactly right when
it comes to kids, oftentimes, what the first thing we
have to ask ourselves is what kind of conversation has happened?
Speaker 1 (08:02):
So in the book Super Communicators, Charles writes about these
three types of conversations. There are practical conversations that is,
how do I do this? Can you help me fix this?
I'm hungry, I need food. There's emotional conversations I'm feeling this,
I'm struggling with that, I'm mad, I'm frustrated, I'm sad,
I'm excited. And there's social conversations. Social conversations are the
(08:25):
kinds of conversations where we're looking at one another and saying,
this is how we relate to each other. These are
the identities that are important to us.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
It's interesting as he was speaking about these three different conversations,
my default response was, as a male, you are so
interfix it mode, solutions, solutions.
Speaker 1 (08:50):
I feel like I've just been gendered. You have been
because I think as a parent, like I'm going to
go one further. I think males do it because that's
typically what they do all the time. But if you're
in a position of power or authority, if you're in
a position where you have know how, you automatically assume
that when somebody is coming to you they want a
(09:11):
problem fixed.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
We didn't let me finish because as I was sitting
there listening and feeling very vilified because you're the one
who's fix it man all the time when it comes
to conversations, it occurred to me that nearly every time
the kids come to me with an emotional challenge, there
is a desire to fix it for them, and so
(09:34):
you're exactly right when you're in that place of power.
Number One, we hate to see other people suffering, especially
when it's our kids, and so our initial reaction too
often is to try and solve it, to try and
fix it without giving our children grace, a space of grace,
(09:56):
and acknowledging that they actually have got what they need
within them. We're just there to help guide them to
find the answers.
Speaker 1 (10:03):
There's something that I've been doing since I've read the book,
and I don't know if you've noticed it or not,
but as we're having a conversation, or as I'm talking
with the children, as the conversation progresses, i will look
at you or one of the children, and I'll ask
a simple question. Essentially, I'm saying, what type of conversation
are we having? And I asked that question by saying
something along the lines of what are you hoping to
(10:25):
get out of this? Or how can I help? Or
what is it that you want? Why are you telling
me this? Have you noticed that I've been saying that, Yeah,
you do it all the time. I was hoping that
you'd say no, because I was doing it so easily
and so incidentally, like it's just part of the conversation.
But the reason I do it all the time is
because when you say I just want to be understood,
(10:45):
or I just want to be held, or I don't
know what to do here and I need some guidance,
or when you say I just want to work out
where we sit in relation to the issue. I know
whether we're having a practical conversation or an identity based
social conversation, or whether we're having an emotional conversation. You
just want to be held and hugged and listened to
and have my presence.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
Later in the interview, he actually talks about whether or
not our children want a hug, they want to be helped,
or they just want to feel heard, right, and it
just yeah, it's beautiful.
Speaker 1 (11:14):
Simple strategy. When you're having a conversation with your kids
or with anybody at all, How can I help here
or what is it that made you come to me
and share this with me? Finding out what the conversation
is about helps you to be a far better communicator
and make sure that you're not talking past each other.
How useful of those tips, How great are those ideas
to take home message, Let's make sure that we connect
(11:36):
with our kids and ask lots of questions and specifically
understand what kind of conversation we're having. Great in the
view a great conversation with Charles Douek. We will play
the entire thing on Saturday from go to woh so
that you can get all of the best snippets. I
recommend the book as well. The book is called Super Communicators,
How Do Unlock the Secret Language of Connection? Compelling storytelling,
(11:59):
amazing sights. I loved it. Charles Doing is the author
of that book, New York Times bestselling author and Pulit
Surprise winning journalist. The Happy Family's podcast is produced by
Justin Rowland from Bridge Media. Please leave us a five
star rating and review if you're enjoying the pod. When
you do that, it helps other people to find the
podcast make their families happier. Oh and you get a
little bit of a warm, fuzzy inside because you've helped
(12:19):
us to help other people. Everyone wins and it only
takes you twenty or thirty seconds to do it. Wherever
you're listening, leave us a five star rating and a review. Please.
If you'd like more information and more resources about making
your family happier, you'll find it all a Happy Families
dot com dot au
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