Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
One of those perennial parenting problems is what do you
do when the kids won't go to sleep in their bed?
Or what do you do when the kids won't go
to sleep and you are exhausted. The number one parenting
hack that I have if you want to be a
better parent is to get enough sleep, but sometimes the
kids won't let you. Hello, this is doctor Justin Colson.
Welcome to the Happy Families podcast Real parenting Solutions every
(00:29):
day on Australia's most downloaded parenting podcast. I'm just on
here with Kylie, my wife and mum to our six
kids and Kylie. Every single Tuesday, we answer questions tricky
questions on the pod. You can submit your questions via
our super simple system at happy families dot com dot you.
You just go to the website, scroll out of where
it says podcasts and click the record button then start talking.
(00:51):
It's really that easy. Or you can send us a
voice memo to podcasts podcasts with an s at happy
families dot com dot you. All Right, here we go.
This is today's question comes through from an anonymous lista.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
Hi Justin, thank you for all that you do for
all the mamas and the papas out there. I was
wondering if you could help me. I'm wondering at what
age should I give up the bedtime fights. It has
mostly felt like a power struggle every year, every night
for years, and I feel like we're chasing them through
all the steps, teeth get ready and into bed, lights out,
(01:28):
and I feel more like we are micromanaging them, and
it's not helping them gain independence and personal responsibility for
their life and how their choices affect them, and so
we are the bad guy when it's time to wake
up or school is the problem, etc. But I don't
want to swing in an extreme direction and give them
full rain because I still strongly believe that dental health
(01:49):
is important and getting enough sleep. But I do feel
none of us are having evening routines we feel good about.
And one challenge that we share is that they all
have to stay in the same room. Sometimes we put
one kid to bed in our bed and then move
them later on, but it's not really ideal. My ideal
(02:13):
goal would be they would be all going to bed
in their own room. So thank you so much and
take care, Kylie.
Speaker 1 (02:23):
I love those two words. Not ideal. Doesn't that just
describe everything when it comes to kids in sleep not ideal.
Speaker 3 (02:31):
So she hasn't given us all the information. We don't
know how many children are involved, we don't know how
old they are, but the fact that she said they
all share the same room would suggest that there's more
than two. I could think, but one of them may
go to sleep in her room. This is really tricky,
and this is a challenge that we with six children
and sometimes houses that are too small, we have had
(02:54):
to deal with multiple times over.
Speaker 1 (02:56):
One of the things that I always want to say
when questions come up about sleep and getting kids to
go to sleep and on their own room, and that
ideal that we have right, we want the kids to
go into bed. We give them the kiss and the cuddle,
sing the song, read them a story, say a prayer
if you've got a religious background, and then you want
to walk out of the room, close the door and breathe.
You just want to get your life back and have
(03:16):
an hour or two before you've got to hit the hay. Historically,
when we look at things anthropologically, across cultures and across
time I'm talking millennia, Humans until the last couple of
hundred years have generally slept in groups. That's what mammals do.
Look at puppy dogs, look at pretty much all mammals.
They sleep in groups. And once we started to have
(03:39):
ostentatious displays of wealth and build bigger houses, the children
started to have their own room, and the more rooms
you had, the more wealthier looked. And that's just become
part of the culture now. Not necessarily about the wealth,
but the kids sleeping in separate rooms, their own rooms,
not with their siblings, or definitely not with parents. Now
obviously in your case, the kids are supposed to be
sleeping together, but they get r right up and they
(04:01):
miss their parents and they want to be with you.
So historically we're up against it. Biologically, DNA, we're up
against it. Nevertheless, I think three principles can get us
out of our fix. The first one, in a word,
force creates resistance. Okay, that was three words, but you
(04:21):
know what I mean. While we're trying to control the situation,
we get a whole lot of resistance. And we've done that,
we've been there. It doesn't work particularly well. We need
to work with our kids.
Speaker 3 (04:31):
You can really hear it in this mom's voice. There's
just an acknowledgement that they really have kind of got
themselves into a bit of a rut. There's a bit
of a vicious circle going on here. She feels like
she's nagging, the kids don't respond, so that whole idea
of her efforts to make them go to bed on
time is falling on deaf ears and actually pushing and
(04:54):
making it worse. And the biggest challenge we have is
how do we break that cycle.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
Your favorite answer whenever we talk about this is that
we should all sit down and have a family meeting.
Is is that where you're going?
Speaker 3 (05:11):
Yes? Maybe, if it's not a family meeting, it's a
one on one with each child and sitting them down
and asking them how they actually feel about night times,
What do they love about nighttimes? What do they not
love about nighttimes? How would they change it? Understanding what
they want out of their experience will help you to
(05:32):
navigate this challenge so much better.
Speaker 1 (05:35):
It'll do something else as well. Whether you have a
family meeting you talk about what's working, what's not, and
what we're going to work on this week, or whether
you do one on ones, which I actually prefer in
this situation. So I didn't quite get it right. What
I like about either of those two options, though, is
that your child now feels like, Oh, your children now
feel like they have a voice. They feel like they're
in the driver's see a little bit of their own lives,
which means that as they say, well, we could do
(05:57):
this or I'd like that, and as you start to
work to warkards those as goals so long as their
reasonable requests and expectations, what this means is the kids
are going to buy into the direction that you're heading,
You're much more likely to get a result. Giving them
a voice is so powerful, so helpful.
Speaker 3 (06:13):
So the reality is if you've got a child in
there who wants a ten thirty bedtime and they're five
years old or even seven or eight years old, and
it's completely not only inappropriate, but just not possible.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
Yea're not going to happen.
Speaker 3 (06:26):
You can acknowledge that that would be awesome, wouldn't it
if you could stay up every night?
Speaker 1 (06:31):
Yeah, give them in fantasy what they can't have in
reality till ten thirty.
Speaker 3 (06:34):
And you know, when you're a big boy, you can
have that. But right now your body needs lots more
sleep than that would give you. So what do you
think would be a good bedtime.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
From time to time, I've had conversations with parents where
I've said, just give them full freedom here and just say,
so long as you get up on time, you can choose.
And what most of those parents have told me dealing
with kids from about five or six through to about
fifteen or sixteen, is that the kids think it's wild
and crazy for the first night or two, and by
about day three or four they're pretty grumpy. In the
(07:05):
house is not very nice. But by about day five
or day six, the kids are like, I'm tired and
I'm going to bed. Like they learned to regulate themselves.
They just want to have a level of control after
the break. Two more principles to help navigate the bedtime
routine where everyone's going to sleep and the toothbrushing stuff. Okay,
(07:31):
so force create's resistance. We want to give kids a voice. Kylie,
my second principle, you put much better words around this
than the words that I had for it. I just said,
you got to do what it takes. I don't know
if that's exactly what I meant. You said.
Speaker 3 (07:46):
It's about a change in perspective.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
That's so much better than what I said.
Speaker 3 (07:50):
You know, I love those snuggles that you have with
young children. And our grand baby she's eighteen months old,
and every now and again I need to babysit her,
and I have the pleasure of having to put her
to sleep.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
Not need to get to.
Speaker 3 (08:06):
I get to, Yeah, I get to. And there is
something just magical about having her fall asleep in my
arms and not wanting to give that moment up for anything,
to the point where you literally you're there like a
still soldier, like a statue. Yeah, like a statue. You
don't want anything to change in that moment, and you're like,
(08:26):
I can't even breathe because if I breathe, maybe I'll
wake her. I love that feeling. And the reality is
that time goes so fast.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
Yeah, you've got those adults forever.
Speaker 3 (08:37):
But before you know it, they're no longer small enough
to be snuggled in your arms. And the reality is
this time frame when they're young and they're just full
of energy feels like you are running a marathon, and
in lots of ways you are. Ye, but it's not
going to last. And this is just such a small moment.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
Don't you miss it?
Speaker 3 (09:01):
Though? I too, God, I do.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
But when you're not going through it anymore and you're
saying I miss it, and you say that to somebody
who is going through it, they look at you and
they're like, are you on drugs?
Speaker 3 (09:11):
So let's paint a really clear picture. What we're saying
we miss is the nights where I had to sleep
on the floor with my hand squeezed through the cot
railings so that I could pat my baby off to
sleep because she just didn't want me to leave.
Speaker 1 (09:26):
We both did that so many times, and I.
Speaker 3 (09:28):
Would be there till midnight and then wake up and go, oh, yeah,
I sick. Why am I still here?
Speaker 1 (09:32):
Or the nights where the baby goes to sleep or
the child the six or seven year old goes to sleep,
but then they come into our bedroom at two in
the morning, and so I get out of the bed
and I go sleep in their bed so they can
sleep in bed with you, because I don't really care
what bed I'm sleeping in so long as I'm sleeping,
and I know if I take them back to bed,
this might happen two or three more times, whereas I
just go to their bed. Problem solved for everybody, right,
(09:55):
It just it just works out.
Speaker 3 (09:56):
Better, and so the reality is twenty six years later,
we're not doing that anymore. Yeah, but at the time
it felt like a really really heavy load.
Speaker 1 (10:06):
Is this ever going to end?
Speaker 3 (10:07):
Yeah? So that idea of changing perspective is just a
recognition that this is just a season.
Speaker 1 (10:13):
You say, change perspective, I say, do what it takes.
Speaker 3 (10:17):
And one day you'll look back and realize just how
small a moment in time it really was.
Speaker 1 (10:22):
I want to summarize with some practical stuff here, Okay,
because a lot of that's theoretical. As a parent, maybe
you take one child and the other parent takes the
other child. If you're doing it on your own, you
get a big sibling to help. If one child wants
to sleep in one bed, you let them and you
sleep in the other bed, or you let them sleep
in your bed and then you sneak out and sleep
into their bed when the three of them are all
(10:42):
sleeping in your bed, like you just do what it takes.
That's really what I'm getting at. You're highlighting when you
change your mindset and see it as something that you're
going to miss one day and you just work on it,
know that this too will pass. That's kind of the conglomeration,
the practical conglomeration of the prince boy trying to share here,
and that's kind of all we've got for the bedtime
(11:03):
routine sort of thing. There was only one other thing
that came up in this question, and that revolved around toothbrushing.
Speaker 3 (11:09):
Dental hygienes. Important.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
It is, It matters, and you're right to say that
the kids need to brush their teeth otherwise they get
gum disease their teeth. Just the whole lot is gross.
It's gross, furry teeth. It wants it. I only have
one thing to say on this, and that is that
if your children are under about the age of eight,
you really need to be involved in doing the toothbrushing
full stop and a story. Dentists recommend that parents help
their children brush their teeth until the age of eight.
(11:34):
If they won't do it, you could say, brush your
teeth and I'll give you a LOLLI. That was a joke.
I'm so glad, so glad you love because that's the
funny bit, right, because you've just brush your teeth and
then you put some sugar in you. No, don't bribe them,
you just you just say, hey, guys, this is what
we do. Okay, maybe maybe.
Speaker 3 (11:51):
Those electrical toothbrushes work to treat without kids love those, yeah,
or you've just got a two minute timeerer on them.
They know what they've got to do and they can't
stop brushing until their toothbrush turns off.
Speaker 1 (12:02):
You just take them to the dentist and get the
dentist to explain the importance of it as well, so
that you're not the authority figure here and you're just
doing what the dentist said. That can be helpful as well.
Speaker 2 (12:11):
Ge.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
We really hope that was helpful, and that's it. That's
our very best answer to help in these tricky situations.
If you've got a tricky question, we love answering them
every Tuesday on the podcast. Send us a voice note
to podcasts at Happy Families dot com dot you or
visit the website scroll down to where it says podcasts,
click the record button and leave us a message. We'd
(12:32):
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the message from as well. That always feels next. We
just we like you. We want to know more about you.
The Happy Families podcast is produced by Justin Roland from
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your family happier, visit us at happy families dot com,
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