Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
No April fools jokes here for the first of April.
Hello and welcome to Happy Families Podcast Dr Real Parenting
Solutions every day in Australia's most downloaded parenting podcast. We
are Justin and Kylie Colson and Kylie. As much as
I want to try to be funny, try to do
things that are not serious. Today it's a very serious conversation.
I'm sounding like I'm not serious, aren't I.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
I'm trying to work out where you're go having too
much fun.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Every Tuesday on the pod, we answer your questions. Are
you your tricky questions about family and relationships and wellbeing
and screens and discipline and all those challenges. If you
have a sticky, tricky question that you'd like to submit,
jump out of our website Happy families dot com dot you.
There's a spot where we've got our podcasts where you
literally click the button and start talking. Alternatively, you can
send us a voice note to podcasts at Happy Families
(00:51):
dot com dot you Today. Our question is as follows.
It's a question from an anonymous source who says I'd
love some insight and some suggestions on what to do.
My eight year old boy is being difficult at home.
He's very self centered. I know that kids are, but
more so than our other three. He cries in tantrums
if he doesn't get what he wants or what doesn't
get to sit where he wants. He's never kind to
(01:11):
his brothers. He never thinks of others. He says mean things.
Then when you put him up nicely and say would
you like it if that was said to you, to
try to help him understand the situation and see it
from the other side, he shrugs and says, I don't care.
I've realized he hasn't been invited to any birthday parties
from school this year, and he doesn't have any solid friends.
He just plays with a few different kids depending on
how he feels on the day, as he will only
(01:33):
play games he wants to. I don't know how to
get him to be considerate of others, how to care,
how to empathize with others and just be genuinely nice.
Any thoughts of advice on directions with him. We've tried
to be gentle and explain situations that happen at home
to help him understand, and they just seem to go
over his head and he doesn't care, Kylie. These are
the tough ones, right. You've got these kids that you
(01:55):
love so much, and they seem oblivious, sempletely unwilling to
engage with you, on anything that could help them to
do better.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
You and I've had lots of conversations over the years,
and as we've kind of, I guess, compared our children,
all six of them, we've looked at each other sometimes
and gone, how is it possible that this child is
so different in the way they perceive things, in the
way that they react to things, in the way that
they view the world. It seems so foreign to me
(02:27):
at times that they could be our child based on
their experiences. And a little while ago I watched a
small snippet of an interview and as psychologists was being
asked about the fact, how is it possible that you
were raised in the same house by the same parents
(02:47):
and yet your experience has been so different from that
of your siblings, And his acknowledgment was that we weren't.
The way we interact with each person is different because
we are all individuals. So in spite of the fact
that you think that you're parenting each child exactly the same,
you're not. And so with that idea, I think it
(03:10):
just gives us insight into the fact that each of
our children will be different and they are going to
respond to the world differently. And that's okay. It's not
a slight on us as parents. That is clearly with
doing something wrong because this child is not like the others.
But I think it helps us to understand them a
bit better. They're supposed to be different.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
So we've jotted down a number of things that we
do need to talk about. But thinking about this question,
something has really stood out to me that we didn't
write down, and I want to start with this, and
that is that as I look at this anonymous mum's comments,
what a sense is going on here is that there's
a lot of talking and not a lot of listening.
(03:51):
And I know that with an eight year old when
you try to listen and they say I don't know that,
that is a bit of a conversation stopper, right, You go, ah, Okay,
we're not making any progress, so let me just tell
you how it's going to be. But as I look
at what's going on here, we've got things like I
try to help him to understand the situation and see
it from the other side, I say, would you like
it if that was said to you? And he shrugs
(04:13):
and says, I don't care. So there are two things
here that really stand out to me. The first is
that my sense is that Mum and Dad are probably
trying to deal with tricky challenges in the moment, so
their son is going to be heightened emotionally. They might
even be a little less calm than they could be
if everything was nice and level and balanced, And therefore
(04:36):
the conversations can get a little bit fiery, a little
bit emotional, and as we know, you can't think straight
in a high emotion state. You do and say things
that you wouldn't normally say if you're balanced. High emotions
equals low intelligence.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
Well, that phrase I don't care or I'm fine is
usually a symptom of a bigger problem that I'm.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
Not willing to be vulnerable about.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
I'm not feeling much so around this, and that's exactly yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
And I don't like using that word I don't feel
safe because it can be really weaponized. I've seen it
used in awful ways. So I'm not talking about it
like that, but rather just from an emotional point of view.
I don't feel like i can disclose where I'm really
at right now because I'm feeling like this might backfire.
I'm not sure that I can trust you with my
big emotions just now. That's what I'm talking about. There's
some other things here as well, in terms of Mum
(05:22):
just saying we try to we try to be gentle
and explained. So there's lots and lots of explaining. But
you remember from the three is of effective discipline that
we don't start with explaining. We start with exploring, and
we don't do it in the moment. We do it
tonight or tomorrow or on the weekend, ideally with a
glass of milk and some chop chip cookies or a
chocolate milkshake or something that makes your child feel like
(05:44):
it's okay, we're just going to have a chat and
we're going to We need to look at discipline in
a problem solving lens. A lot of people think at
discipline as I need to do this to my child
to teach them a lesson, or I need to step
in with sanctions and restrictions and punishments so that they
will learn. What they really learn is all the stuff
that we don't want to learn. There are some very
clear things that they will learn, though, if we work
(06:06):
on problem solving together. So even asking a question like
would you like it if that was said to you, Frankly,
it's a manipulative question. It's a question that there's only
there's only one true answer here. And he's feeling boxed in,
he's feeling controlled, he feels like everyone's against him.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
He's not feeling understood right right.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
Now, Does that mean that we have to sit down
and say, well, why don't you tell me everything?
Speaker 2 (06:32):
Well?
Speaker 1 (06:32):
Maybe, maybe not. The challenge here is that I sense
that discipline such a tricky thing, and in this context
with this particular child, it's even trickier. So I wanted
to flag those at the outset. After the break, we
have three or four other ideas that we can run
through reasonably quickly that I think are going to really
help in your conversation with your son. Okay, Kylie, let's
(07:01):
talk about it. Eight year old being difficult, doesn't seem
to want to learn. We've got a couple of different
ideas that we can talk about here. My first one
is really short and really simple. Developmental trajectories differ, so
we've got personalities, we've got temperaments. Kids need to learn,
they need to be socialized, but we shouldn't expect every
eight year old to be at the same level. Just
(07:24):
a quick reminder that every child is on their own
developmental journey.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
In our home, we've always tried to be proactive in
our approaches with our children, and one of the things
that we love doing is focusing on the positive. And
something that is really powerful for us in our home
is having conversations around the dinner table. When people have
got full tummies, they're usually much happier. They're much more
(07:53):
open and receptive to hear messages and to receive instruction.
But we can do it such a way that they
don't actually feel like they're being instructed at all. So
we like to have whether it's a gratitude circle, what
were you grateful for today? Is something that we do regularly,
but if we're working on a particular challenging behavior in
(08:13):
our home, we might change it. How are you helpful
today or how have you seen others being helpful and
how did that make you feel?
Speaker 1 (08:21):
How have you experienced kindness? How have you been kind
how have you been determined? How have you seen determination.
So we just look at what the kids are struggling
when we say, well, let's let's ask questions about that
this week.
Speaker 2 (08:31):
And we've noticed that in the beginning, when we start
with something new like that, often we get some pushback.
I don't know, I'm not wanting to talk.
Speaker 1 (08:39):
To you about that, and we don't force it, but
we do encourage it.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
Yes, that's exactly right. And so those who want to
be involved, they have the conversation, and those other children
who are not willing to win that moment, they see
it and they get to take it in. But over
the coming days, as we continue to reinforce it, what
we find more times than not is by the end
of week, we've got some buy in. You've got some
(09:03):
realization that this is actually a good thing, and this
makes me feel good.
Speaker 1 (09:07):
Right yeah, yeah, So let me add So that was
your idea, and I want to add on to it
with this idea of teaching values explicitly. Sometimes there is
a place where we do want to explain. And if
I was sitting down with a little boy and he
was making other people feel uncomfortable or he was struggling,
I'd be saying things like if we are going to
be like, turn into grown up men and be healthy
(09:30):
and strong men. We need to remember this. The good men,
real men help the people around them feel safer and stronger.
So there's this really explicit teaching that's going on. And
we take the time to do the explicit teaching. As
our daughters have moved into adolescence, we've had conversations with
them that because real men make you feel safer and stronger.
If you're dating a boy and he does not make
(09:53):
you feel safer and stronger, then this is a relationship
you want to get out of. If you want to
explain to him that you're not feeling safer and stronger,
give him the opportunity to change. If he doesn't seem
to know how to do it, get other relationship. He's
not good enough to be a boyfriend anymore. That explicit
teaching moves the needle. And I was thrilled last year
and one of our daughters broke up with her boyfriend.
And when I asked why, she said because I didn't
feel safer and stronger around him. I was like, oh, yes,
(10:16):
it's working. It takes a while to sink in, but
it does work. Last thing, avoid punishments, avoid being punitive,
avoid sanctions where possible. But remember you're dealing with an
eight year old, and sometimes you just have to step
in and say, hey, buddy, don't want to get you
in trouble, but we're going to do this for the
next few days. You're going to lose the xbox or
(10:38):
it's going to be X Y or Z until we
get to have a proper conversation about it. We're not
mad at you, You're not technically in trouble. We just
want the family to feel different and we need your
buy in. So the three e's that I teach explore
explaining power, there is a fourth step and people often
miss it. I've written about in the books, I've written
(10:59):
about in the blogs, so I teach it when I
do my presentations, but people often miss it because it
doesn't start with E. And I really emphasize the three e's.
But that fourth step, after you explore, explain and empower,
is if you have ongoing challenges, that you minimize the
use of punitive and coercive strategies. But minimize is not
(11:19):
the same as eliminate. Sometimes you've just got to step
in and go all power hungry and it's not because
you want to, it's because your kids aren't getting it,
and we've got to do a full reset. Anger is
an emotion that I'm not a big fan of, but
it can be really useful to help other people recognize
that a reset in a relationship is required.
Speaker 2 (11:38):
When I think about eight year olds and I think
about where they are developmentally, my experience is that their
emotional regulation and their capacity to recognize and understand the
emotions that they're experiencing, we would call that emotional intelligence
is still very immature.
Speaker 1 (11:55):
Yeah, I mean, they don't get half decent at it
until somewhere between eight and ten.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
And so so as a parent, it's so easier for
us to jump in because we're seeing what we would
deem as bad behavior and negative output. And yet what
this child probably needs more than anything is understanding and
for us to explore his world and what's going on
for him. And when he feels understood, chances are that
(12:21):
relationships change, relationships strength, and connections are made, and his
ability to recognize and see the impact that his behavior
is having on others will enlarge. But whilever he feels threatened,
whilever he feels like he's the one who's always in
trouble whilever he feels like the world's against him. He's
very closed off to learning and growing.
Speaker 1 (12:44):
The only other thing that strikes me is I listened
to what you're saying. Is I mean, everybody talks about
neurodivergent challenges and I'm remiss to go straight there. I
really do think that most kids mature through this, They learn,
and with really great teaching, we can help them. But
it is worth considering whether there's need for an assessment,
having a chat with the doctor and seeing if that progresses.
(13:06):
My preference, My preference is always to see if we
can navigate this stuff with really really effective parenting and
really great relationships. But we can't discount that and potentially
other medical issues. Just worth throwing it out there. So
to our anonymous poster, thank you so much for the question.
We hope that it's helpful. If you have a question,
all you need to do is go to the Happy
(13:26):
Families dot com dot a u website and leave us
a voice message on the podcast section. Just click the
button start talking. It's that simple. The Happy Families podcast
is produced by Justin Ruland from Bridge Media. If you'd
like more information and more resources, please visit us at
happyfamilies dot com dot au