June 2, 2025 • 16 mins
In today’s Q&A episode, Elizabeth from Melbourne shares a heartbreaking concern: her 7-year-old son is engaging in inappropriate behaviours towards girls at school. We unpack this tricky topic with sensitivity and seriousness—discussing how to draw firm boundaries, have safe and open conversations, and when to seek professional help. If you’ve ever felt unsure about how to respond when your child crosses a line, this episode will offer clarity, compassion, and practical tools.
KEY POINTS:
- Normal Curiosity vs Concerning Behaviour:
It’s typical for kids between ages 4–8 to explore gender and bodies—but behaviour like skirt-lifting and bottom-touching crosses a serious line. - Immediate Action is Crucial:
Clear, direct communication is needed. “Your body belongs to you. Other people’s bodies belong to them.” - Teach Consent Early:
Consent education starts with everyday interactions—asking before hugging, respecting personal space, and stopping when someone says no. - Don’t Catastrophize, Stay Present:
Parents must resist the urge to project into the future and instead address the present issue calmly and constructively. - Get on the Same Page with the School:
Schools have protocols—partner with them for consistent boundaries and supervision. - Have Open Conversations Using the 3 E’s of Discipline:
Explore what’s behind the behavior, Explain why it’s inappropriate, and Empower your child with better choices. - Look Deeper, Ask the Hard Questions:
Behaviour may stem from exposure to inappropriate content, modelling by others, or—more rarely—neurological or psychological factors. - Avoid Labels:
Kids need support, not stigma. Labels can harm their identity and influence how others treat them.
QUOTE OF THE EPISODE:
“Labels belong on jars, not on people.”
RESOURCES MENTIONED:
- Michelle Mitchell's books
- Consent Can’t Wait Campaign
- happyfamilies.com.au – for parenting resources and help
ACTION STEPS FOR PARENTS:
- Have a Calm, Direct Conversation
Set a firm boundary: “This behaviour is not okay.” Avoid shame—focus on clear expectations. - Initiate a Safe Dialogue
Reassure your child: “There’s nothing you can say that will make us stop loving you.” Then ask direct but gentle questions about where the behaviour may be coming from. - Involve the School
Work with teachers and school counsellors to ensure supervision and consistent messaging. - Monitor Online Access
Review screen time and check for any exposure to explicit content. - Consider Professional Help
If behaviours repeat or your child discloses troubling influences, consult a psychologist or counsellor experienced in childhood behaviour.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Well, it's not explicit.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
The contents of this podcast may not be suitable for
younger ears. Parent discretion is advised. What do you do
when you find out that your young child, somewhere around
the age of seven, is touching people inappropriately, is doing
things that are well put your son in a I
guess a sexually compromised position.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
That is our tricky question.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Today Today and welcome to the Happy Families podcast, Real
Parenting Solutions. Every day on Australia's most downloaded parenting podcast,
we are Justin and Kylie Coulson, and every Tuesday on
the pod we answer your tricky questions. They can be
about the most mundane things and also about the most
challenging things. It can be niche or general family relationships,
(00:47):
well being, discipline, just life. If you'd like to submit
a tricky question, we've got a super simple system at
happy families dot com dot au. Just scrat out of podcasts,
click the record button and start talk, or you can
send us a voice note to podcasts at happy families
dot com dot au. We received the following from Liz
(01:08):
in Melbourne.
Speaker 3 (01:10):
Doctor Justin Elizabeth from Melbourne. I have a seven year
old boy in grade twos performing some actions of touching
or tapping girls in the bottom and trying to lift
their skirts and smell where they've been sitting sometimes as well.
It just scare me to think this behavior could lead
to other things when he's older. I believe he's the
only one that's in his class of school that's doing this.
(01:33):
And I'm really unsure about how to tackle this issue,
and I would love if you could offer any advice please.
Speaker 4 (01:39):
I know you ask for tricky questions. This is a
tricky one. This is a really tricky one, and I
usually have heaps to say, but today I actually am
probably going to defer a lot to you in relation
to this. You are writing a book all about boys,
and I think while I might have some things to
add a little bit of color to what you're sharing,
i'd like to hear You've got to say.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
I mean, I hear this question, and it reminds me
of so many things that parents have said to me
when they find out that I'm writing a book about boys.
I had one mum of four, two boys, two girls,
and name was Brook, she said, And this is a
direct quote. I'm using this in chapter one of my books.
She said, quote. I find it kind of scary to
be raising boys. It's so different to girls. I'm worried
about different things. It's just scarier. And what I find
is that the questions that parents ask about boys often
(02:22):
just hit differently, because when you hear a question like
what Elizabeth's asked a there's a magnitude, there's a heft,
there's a funk to it. If you were to drop
her on the table, it would land differently to a
lot of the questions that we hear about girls. Not
that it's a competition, but worth highlighting.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
Kylie.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
Let's start with identifying the difference between natural curiosity and
concerning behavior. So it's completely normal for children aged somewhere
between four and eight five and eight to start getting
really curious about gender, about bodies. I mean this is
when around around four three or four is where kids
start playing doctors and no, but from about four five six,
(03:02):
that's where they step into well this is what a
girl does and this is what a boy does. They
see gender, they're curious about their bodies. They have lots
of awkward questions, totally normal development. The behavior that we're
discussing today touching other kids on the back side, try
to lift skirts, smelling where girls have been sitting. This
goes beyond what you'd consider to be normal curiosity. Also,
(03:25):
it's only going one way. It's not like Elizabeth said,
he's doing it to everybody. It's not like other boys
are copying this treatment. It is only girls that he's
doing it too.
Speaker 4 (03:33):
And from her understanding, he's the only one. So it's
not like there's a cohort of boys that are all
kind of having, you know, egging each other on. This
is individual behavior.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
It's deviating from the norm in a way that is
not healthy, not functional, or not typical. And other kids
are being affected as well, so we need immediate intervention. Shortly,
I want to speculate about where this kind of behavior
comes from, especially in young children. We'll talk about that,
but that's sort of moving away from Elizabeth's question. And
what we really need to do is address the issue immediately.
(04:06):
To me, that's the most important thing to do. So
first off, we need to take immediate action on an
issue like this. This isn't the sort of thing where
we fluff around clear simple direct communication. We keep our
hands to ourselves. Everybody's body belongs to them. It's not
about shaming, but we have to be really clear to
(04:28):
our child it's.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
Not okay for this to occur.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
Now, we can explore why, we can try to understand
what's going on later, and we'll talk about that in
the second half of the podcast, but my immediate response
is there just needs to be a very clear line
in the sand. This is a boundary. We do not
cross it. The transgression around this is significant and it's concerning,
and it ties in with consent. I'm an ambassador for
the federal government's Consent Can't Wait campaign. Just a couple
(04:54):
of things and this and now. Consent at this age
typically isn't about issues of morality and sexuality and touching,
but sometimes it needs to be. It's about respecting boundaries
in every interaction. So we want to teach kids that
if someone doesn't want to hug, you don't hug them.
If someone says no to tickling, you don't tickle them.
If someone says no you can't borrow my toys, you
(05:14):
can't borrow my toys. If someone's getting changed in the bathroom,
they want privacy, you give them privacy. When it comes
to body safety, your body belongs to you. Other people's
bodies belong to them.
Speaker 1 (05:26):
We have to.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
Practice asking permission. If you wouldn't ask that girl permission,
can I lift up your skirt, then it's not okay.
Speaker 1 (05:32):
To do it.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
And if you would ask that girl permission, then you
need to understand what boundaries are. And again we'll talk
about where this is coming from in a sec I.
Speaker 4 (05:39):
Think it's really really easy when we are placed in
situations like this, like I can't imagine getting a phone
call from the school principle and being told that this
is what my child's doing. And so as a parent,
it can be really really easy in that moment to
catastrophize and project where this behavior will lead in the future,
(06:00):
and therefore treat our child differently in that process. Elizabeth,
based on her message, is sounding quite level headed at
the moment, but over time it can be really easy
to just get caught up in the emotion of everything
and why is my child doing this? And if we
can just as parents, take it a notch down and
deal with today. Don't even think about what tomorrow looks like,
(06:22):
or what next week or next year. Just focus on
today because your child needs you today.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
Yeah, And again, those really clear, simple conversations direct. I'm
going to recommend Michelle Mitchell's books The Girl's Guide and
The Guy's Guide to Puberty, and also where.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
Do Babies Come From?
Speaker 2 (06:37):
Maybe these conversations aren't happening enough, or maybe we need
to get a lot more clear and direct about it.
Michelle us that does a great job about talking about
consent and where do babies come from? A couple of
other things that I think are important. I would be
speaking with the school about it. They're obviously talking with you,
So get on the same team, be aligned, and find
out what can be done in a school context. So
(06:57):
is there a possibility that there can be a little
bit more supervised play that the teacher and their school
counselor need to know what's going on in schools will
have protocols for this situation, and we need to make
sure that there are consistent boundaries between home and school.
But fundamentally, I think this is one of those ones
where as parents we need to be right on top
(07:18):
of it, and there may be there may be cause.
Speaker 1 (07:20):
For professional help.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
After the break, I want to talk about where that
might come from and why you might need to go
down the professional route. Not certain, but I'm pretty sure
that we would need to go there. Two other things,
we need to understand where it's coming from. So that's
like I said, after the break, and also we've got
a monitor online access. I don't know, we just don't
(07:41):
have any information about what he might have been exposed to,
but we want to make sure that he's not being
exposed to inappropriate content explicit content online. After the break,
we'll talk about where this could be coming from and
effective ways that we can have deeper conversations with our
son about problem sexual behavior. Okay, So we have a
(08:10):
very tough, very tricky question, Kylie, a handful of things
in terms of his how the conversation needs to go.
You need to make sure that he stops. You need
to make sure that consent's being taught. Need to work
with the school to protect people who may otherwise be harmed.
That's kind of the guts of what we've talked about
so far.
Speaker 4 (08:27):
So while I think that everything that your sharing is
so important and we need that immediate action, like you suggested,
at this point, what you've given us is everything that
needs to be done to our child or for our child,
and I think the next step has to be how
do we work with our child. You talk about the
three ease of discipline, and I think that this really
(08:51):
touches beautifully with how do we now tap into a
place of curiosity to explore what is going on for
our child, what is kind of causing this behavior, and
then explaining why this behavior is int appropriate, and then
exploring how we can empower him.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
So part of me wants to say this should be
the process from the beginning, But the reason I stepped
in with direction immediately is because of the seriousness of
the situation. Yeah, I agree, just got to nip in
the butt. You've got to make it really clear there's
a boundary, it's been crossed.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
You can't do that.
Speaker 2 (09:29):
But once emotions have settled, once everyone's feeling better, You're
exactly right. This is the kind of thing where we
sit down and say, hey, bud, where's this coming from?
Like this is not what any of your friends do,
this is not what other seven year olds.
Speaker 4 (09:40):
Do, and you've seen other people doing this, Like, yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:43):
Where is it coming from?
Speaker 2 (09:44):
And by doing a really deep dive on this exploring,
that's where we're going to start to probably make the
most progress and be more effective in long term limits setting.
The thing that you're probably going to come across here, though,
is you've got a someone who's going to say, I
don't know, going to shrug shoulder, is going to get
really defensive and going to be absolutely terrified of getting
in trouble.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
So this is where I start to speculate.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
Elizabeth hasn't given us any indication that is going on,
and it may not have been going on, but here
are my primary suspicions with this kind of behavior. Typically,
this has learned behavior. This is a model behavior. It's
not the sort of stuff that kids just invent, although
sometimes they can.
Speaker 1 (10:22):
So let's start with the.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
Sometimes that they can, and then we'll go into, Unfortunately,
the darker things that could be going on. There are
some kids who are naturally more exploratory. They haven't learned
appropriate limits, they don't know how to regulate, they're not
big on inhibition, they're curious, and they don't either understand
or respect personal boundaries. If this is your son, maybe
there's some kind of neurological challenge that's going on, some
(10:44):
sort of learning issue. Again we don't have details. Then
there is a different pathway to help than the one
that I'm focused on in terms of going and getting
professional help because there's some deviant behavior here. It may
simply be that there are inhibition and regular TIS concerns.
I hope that's what it is. I really do. My
(11:04):
deeper concern is that we've got a seven year old
boy who has been exposed to troubling sexual behavior in
one of a couple of ways. Either it's been modeled
by what he's seen on a screen, or it's been
modeled by what has been done to him. There are
all kinds of external influences that are out there. Kids
copy what they observe. If they've seen inappropriate touching in
(11:27):
the media or at home or elsewhere, then they might
replicate it without really understanding why it's wrong. They'll know
that it's wrong, but they won't understand why. We know
that the average age of exposure to explicit content pornography
is around the age of eleven in Australia. The data
is not strong, it's not good quality data. But even
if it's right, fifty percent of kids under the age
(11:47):
of eleven are being exposed to pornography. It shows unhealthy
power dynamics. It can normalize inappropriate behavior before kids have
any idea at all of what they're seeing that is
a problem. And there is the awful risk that maybe
somebody has touched him or modeled that behavior for him,
(12:09):
or even just talked about it because he's been hanging
around with big kids in the neighborhood, up the street,
on camp, at school, on the bus, those kinds of things.
There's one more place that this could have come from, Kylie.
And again I'm uncomfortable sharing this, but it's a reality
that there are some kids who are just born with
what's known as a dark triad of personality traits. So
(12:31):
this is narcissism, machiavellianism, and psychopathy or sociopathy. It's pretty
rare that you see a seven year old sociopath, right,
but every now and again you'll find children who have
tendencies towards this. If this sort of behavior, not necessarily
the sexual behavior, but if there's this narcissistic or aggressive
behavior or other people playing out across contexts.
Speaker 1 (12:53):
Then that's what it could be. Here's the reality.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
Some boys test boundaries so that they can feel important
and feel in control, and what looks like actually explorative
behavior might actually be dominance behavior. So they're seeking status
through making other people feel uncomfortable and try to get
reactions that way.
Speaker 4 (13:11):
So I don't want to make light of anything that
you've said. But my one concern for this little seven
year old boy is he number one gets labeled and
number two gets treated differently, which actually in essence makes
him feel worse about himself, right, And therefore he will
continue to act out in various ways because that's almost
(13:33):
become the expectation of who he is now. So the
only thing as a mother I would be suggesting, it's
just be cautious about how you move forward with this
in relation to how other people deal with him. Like
in the school setting, I've just watched it too many times.
This child gets ostracized from teachers, right, which then plays
(13:54):
out in the playground.
Speaker 2 (13:55):
It just yeah, yeah, I was pretty soft on whether
or not you should or shouldn't get help. My initial
thought is address it, deal with it, and if it stops,
your good. But if there is repeated behavior, if you
find out that he's got an Internet search history, that's
problematic if you find out. But pretty much everything that
I've talked about the status seeking behavior, the challenges neurologically
(14:17):
if there are any of those. The external influence is
the possibility that he's engaging in viewing explicit behavior or
has been touched. Every single one of those things makes
me think you need to get professional help.
Speaker 4 (14:29):
And that's an absolute like please, don't get me wrong,
this has to be addressed. But the way we address
it actually is more important.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
Then It's not about putting a label on the Labels
belong on jars, not on people. So again the steps
just to be clear. Address it in the home. Initially,
do some exploratory work once you've just drawn that wine
in the sand. So make sure that he knows nothing
he can tell you. Nothing he can tell he was
going to make you stop loving him. You love him
much more than anything that he could tell you will
(15:00):
be safe. He's got to know. The conversation literally goes
like this, I want to ask you some hard questions.
I want you to know no matter what you tell me,
you can literally tell me absolutely anything and I will
still love you. You are not in trouble, you are
only surrounded by love and goodness, and we want to
help you. But I've got to ask you these hard questions,
and then ask questions about whether he's viewed pornography, whether
(15:22):
somebody at school has shown it to himor whether he's
watching at home, whether somebody's ever touched him, whether the
kids at school are talking about sexually explicit things and
he's decided to act out on it. Ask the direct questions. Reassure, reassure, reassure,
you're not in trouble. We love you too much to
get you in trouble, but we do need to help
you to stop doing this, And also ask him, how
do you feel about touching girls and lifting skirts and
(15:43):
doing these things? How does it make you feel so
that you can really get an understanding of what's going on?
Speaker 4 (15:48):
And how do you think other people are feeling when
you're doing it to them or when they're watching right,
they're watching this happen, How do they feel about you?
How are they going to interact with you in the future. Like, yeah,
perspective is huge.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
If you can stop it here and now, then it
doesn't need to go further. But if there is anything
that comes up in terms of modeling, abuse, viewing explicit
material in an ongoing way, status seeking, dominance, misogyny, or
a neurological challenge, then you absolutely need professional help. Tricky question, Elizabeth,
(16:23):
We hope that was helpful. Thank you very much for
asking the question. If you would like to submit your
tricky question, we've got that super simple system at happy families.
Speaker 1 (16:30):
Dot com dot you.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
You literally press the record button and start talking, or
send us a voice note to podcasts at happy families
dot com dot au. The Happy Families podcast is produced
by Justin Ruland from Bridge Media. More information and more
resources for making your family happier are available at happy
families dot com dot you
Well, it's not explicit.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
The contents of this podcast may not be suitable for
younger ears. Parent discretion is advised. What do you do
when you find out that your young child, somewhere around
the age of seven, is touching people inappropriately, is doing
things that are well put your son in a I
guess a sexually compromised position.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
That is our tricky question.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Today Today and welcome to the Happy Families podcast, Real
Parenting Solutions. Every day on Australia's most downloaded parenting podcast,
we are Justin and Kylie Coulson, and every Tuesday on
the pod we answer your tricky questions. They can be
about the most mundane things and also about the most
challenging things. It can be niche or general family relationships,
(00:47):
well being, discipline, just life. If you'd like to submit
a tricky question, we've got a super simple system at
happy families dot com dot au. Just scrat out of podcasts,
click the record button and start talk, or you can
send us a voice note to podcasts at happy families
dot com dot au. We received the following from Liz
(01:08):
in Melbourne.
Speaker 3 (01:10):
Doctor Justin Elizabeth from Melbourne. I have a seven year
old boy in grade twos performing some actions of touching
or tapping girls in the bottom and trying to lift
their skirts and smell where they've been sitting sometimes as well.
It just scare me to think this behavior could lead
to other things when he's older. I believe he's the
only one that's in his class of school that's doing this.
(01:33):
And I'm really unsure about how to tackle this issue,
and I would love if you could offer any advice please.
Speaker 4 (01:39):
I know you ask for tricky questions. This is a
tricky one. This is a really tricky one, and I
usually have heaps to say, but today I actually am
probably going to defer a lot to you in relation
to this. You are writing a book all about boys,
and I think while I might have some things to
add a little bit of color to what you're sharing,
i'd like to hear You've got to say.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
I mean, I hear this question, and it reminds me
of so many things that parents have said to me
when they find out that I'm writing a book about boys.
I had one mum of four, two boys, two girls,
and name was Brook, she said, And this is a
direct quote. I'm using this in chapter one of my books.
She said, quote. I find it kind of scary to
be raising boys. It's so different to girls. I'm worried
about different things. It's just scarier. And what I find
is that the questions that parents ask about boys often
(02:22):
just hit differently, because when you hear a question like
what Elizabeth's asked a there's a magnitude, there's a heft,
there's a funk to it. If you were to drop
her on the table, it would land differently to a
lot of the questions that we hear about girls. Not
that it's a competition, but worth highlighting.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
Kylie.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
Let's start with identifying the difference between natural curiosity and
concerning behavior. So it's completely normal for children aged somewhere
between four and eight five and eight to start getting
really curious about gender, about bodies. I mean this is
when around around four three or four is where kids
start playing doctors and no, but from about four five six,
(03:02):
that's where they step into well this is what a
girl does and this is what a boy does. They
see gender, they're curious about their bodies. They have lots
of awkward questions, totally normal development. The behavior that we're
discussing today touching other kids on the back side, try
to lift skirts, smelling where girls have been sitting. This
goes beyond what you'd consider to be normal curiosity. Also,
(03:25):
it's only going one way. It's not like Elizabeth said,
he's doing it to everybody. It's not like other boys
are copying this treatment. It is only girls that he's
doing it too.
Speaker 4 (03:33):
And from her understanding, he's the only one. So it's
not like there's a cohort of boys that are all
kind of having, you know, egging each other on. This
is individual behavior.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
It's deviating from the norm in a way that is
not healthy, not functional, or not typical. And other kids
are being affected as well, so we need immediate intervention. Shortly,
I want to speculate about where this kind of behavior
comes from, especially in young children. We'll talk about that,
but that's sort of moving away from Elizabeth's question. And
what we really need to do is address the issue immediately.
(04:06):
To me, that's the most important thing to do. So
first off, we need to take immediate action on an
issue like this. This isn't the sort of thing where
we fluff around clear simple direct communication. We keep our
hands to ourselves. Everybody's body belongs to them. It's not
about shaming, but we have to be really clear to
(04:28):
our child it's.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
Not okay for this to occur.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
Now, we can explore why, we can try to understand
what's going on later, and we'll talk about that in
the second half of the podcast, but my immediate response
is there just needs to be a very clear line
in the sand. This is a boundary. We do not
cross it. The transgression around this is significant and it's concerning,
and it ties in with consent. I'm an ambassador for
the federal government's Consent Can't Wait campaign. Just a couple
(04:54):
of things and this and now. Consent at this age
typically isn't about issues of morality and sexuality and touching,
but sometimes it needs to be. It's about respecting boundaries
in every interaction. So we want to teach kids that
if someone doesn't want to hug, you don't hug them.
If someone says no to tickling, you don't tickle them.
If someone says no you can't borrow my toys, you
(05:14):
can't borrow my toys. If someone's getting changed in the bathroom,
they want privacy, you give them privacy. When it comes
to body safety, your body belongs to you. Other people's
bodies belong to them.
Speaker 1 (05:26):
We have to.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
Practice asking permission. If you wouldn't ask that girl permission,
can I lift up your skirt, then it's not okay.
Speaker 1 (05:32):
To do it.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
And if you would ask that girl permission, then you
need to understand what boundaries are. And again we'll talk
about where this is coming from in a sec I.
Speaker 4 (05:39):
Think it's really really easy when we are placed in
situations like this, like I can't imagine getting a phone
call from the school principle and being told that this
is what my child's doing. And so as a parent,
it can be really really easy in that moment to
catastrophize and project where this behavior will lead in the future,
(06:00):
and therefore treat our child differently in that process. Elizabeth,
based on her message, is sounding quite level headed at
the moment, but over time it can be really easy
to just get caught up in the emotion of everything
and why is my child doing this? And if we
can just as parents, take it a notch down and
deal with today. Don't even think about what tomorrow looks like,
(06:22):
or what next week or next year. Just focus on
today because your child needs you today.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
Yeah, And again, those really clear, simple conversations direct. I'm
going to recommend Michelle Mitchell's books The Girl's Guide and
The Guy's Guide to Puberty, and also where.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
Do Babies Come From?
Speaker 2 (06:37):
Maybe these conversations aren't happening enough, or maybe we need
to get a lot more clear and direct about it.
Michelle us that does a great job about talking about
consent and where do babies come from? A couple of
other things that I think are important. I would be
speaking with the school about it. They're obviously talking with you,
So get on the same team, be aligned, and find
out what can be done in a school context. So
(06:57):
is there a possibility that there can be a little
bit more supervised play that the teacher and their school
counselor need to know what's going on in schools will
have protocols for this situation, and we need to make
sure that there are consistent boundaries between home and school.
But fundamentally, I think this is one of those ones
where as parents we need to be right on top
(07:18):
of it, and there may be there may be cause.
Speaker 1 (07:20):
For professional help.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
After the break, I want to talk about where that
might come from and why you might need to go
down the professional route. Not certain, but I'm pretty sure
that we would need to go there. Two other things,
we need to understand where it's coming from. So that's
like I said, after the break, and also we've got
a monitor online access. I don't know, we just don't
(07:41):
have any information about what he might have been exposed to,
but we want to make sure that he's not being
exposed to inappropriate content explicit content online. After the break,
we'll talk about where this could be coming from and
effective ways that we can have deeper conversations with our
son about problem sexual behavior. Okay, So we have a
(08:10):
very tough, very tricky question, Kylie, a handful of things
in terms of his how the conversation needs to go.
You need to make sure that he stops. You need
to make sure that consent's being taught. Need to work
with the school to protect people who may otherwise be harmed.
That's kind of the guts of what we've talked about
so far.
Speaker 4 (08:27):
So while I think that everything that your sharing is
so important and we need that immediate action, like you suggested,
at this point, what you've given us is everything that
needs to be done to our child or for our child,
and I think the next step has to be how
do we work with our child. You talk about the
three ease of discipline, and I think that this really
(08:51):
touches beautifully with how do we now tap into a
place of curiosity to explore what is going on for
our child, what is kind of causing this behavior, and
then explaining why this behavior is int appropriate, and then
exploring how we can empower him.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
So part of me wants to say this should be
the process from the beginning, But the reason I stepped
in with direction immediately is because of the seriousness of
the situation. Yeah, I agree, just got to nip in
the butt. You've got to make it really clear there's
a boundary, it's been crossed.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
You can't do that.
Speaker 2 (09:29):
But once emotions have settled, once everyone's feeling better, You're
exactly right. This is the kind of thing where we
sit down and say, hey, bud, where's this coming from?
Like this is not what any of your friends do,
this is not what other seven year olds.
Speaker 4 (09:40):
Do, and you've seen other people doing this, Like, yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:43):
Where is it coming from?
Speaker 2 (09:44):
And by doing a really deep dive on this exploring,
that's where we're going to start to probably make the
most progress and be more effective in long term limits setting.
The thing that you're probably going to come across here, though,
is you've got a someone who's going to say, I
don't know, going to shrug shoulder, is going to get
really defensive and going to be absolutely terrified of getting
in trouble.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
So this is where I start to speculate.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
Elizabeth hasn't given us any indication that is going on,
and it may not have been going on, but here
are my primary suspicions with this kind of behavior. Typically,
this has learned behavior. This is a model behavior. It's
not the sort of stuff that kids just invent, although
sometimes they can.
Speaker 1 (10:22):
So let's start with the.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
Sometimes that they can, and then we'll go into, Unfortunately,
the darker things that could be going on. There are
some kids who are naturally more exploratory. They haven't learned
appropriate limits, they don't know how to regulate, they're not
big on inhibition, they're curious, and they don't either understand
or respect personal boundaries. If this is your son, maybe
there's some kind of neurological challenge that's going on, some
(10:44):
sort of learning issue. Again we don't have details. Then
there is a different pathway to help than the one
that I'm focused on in terms of going and getting
professional help because there's some deviant behavior here. It may
simply be that there are inhibition and regular TIS concerns.
I hope that's what it is. I really do. My
(11:04):
deeper concern is that we've got a seven year old
boy who has been exposed to troubling sexual behavior in
one of a couple of ways. Either it's been modeled
by what he's seen on a screen, or it's been
modeled by what has been done to him. There are
all kinds of external influences that are out there. Kids
copy what they observe. If they've seen inappropriate touching in
(11:27):
the media or at home or elsewhere, then they might
replicate it without really understanding why it's wrong. They'll know
that it's wrong, but they won't understand why. We know
that the average age of exposure to explicit content pornography
is around the age of eleven in Australia. The data
is not strong, it's not good quality data. But even
if it's right, fifty percent of kids under the age
(11:47):
of eleven are being exposed to pornography. It shows unhealthy
power dynamics. It can normalize inappropriate behavior before kids have
any idea at all of what they're seeing that is
a problem. And there is the awful risk that maybe
somebody has touched him or modeled that behavior for him,
(12:09):
or even just talked about it because he's been hanging
around with big kids in the neighborhood, up the street,
on camp, at school, on the bus, those kinds of things.
There's one more place that this could have come from, Kylie.
And again I'm uncomfortable sharing this, but it's a reality
that there are some kids who are just born with
what's known as a dark triad of personality traits. So
(12:31):
this is narcissism, machiavellianism, and psychopathy or sociopathy. It's pretty
rare that you see a seven year old sociopath, right,
but every now and again you'll find children who have
tendencies towards this. If this sort of behavior, not necessarily
the sexual behavior, but if there's this narcissistic or aggressive
behavior or other people playing out across contexts.
Speaker 1 (12:53):
Then that's what it could be. Here's the reality.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
Some boys test boundaries so that they can feel important
and feel in control, and what looks like actually explorative
behavior might actually be dominance behavior. So they're seeking status
through making other people feel uncomfortable and try to get
reactions that way.
Speaker 4 (13:11):
So I don't want to make light of anything that
you've said. But my one concern for this little seven
year old boy is he number one gets labeled and
number two gets treated differently, which actually in essence makes
him feel worse about himself, right, And therefore he will
continue to act out in various ways because that's almost
(13:33):
become the expectation of who he is now. So the
only thing as a mother I would be suggesting, it's
just be cautious about how you move forward with this
in relation to how other people deal with him. Like
in the school setting, I've just watched it too many times.
This child gets ostracized from teachers, right, which then plays
(13:54):
out in the playground.
Speaker 2 (13:55):
It just yeah, yeah, I was pretty soft on whether
or not you should or shouldn't get help. My initial
thought is address it, deal with it, and if it stops,
your good. But if there is repeated behavior, if you
find out that he's got an Internet search history, that's
problematic if you find out. But pretty much everything that
I've talked about the status seeking behavior, the challenges neurologically
(14:17):
if there are any of those. The external influence is
the possibility that he's engaging in viewing explicit behavior or
has been touched. Every single one of those things makes
me think you need to get professional help.
Speaker 4 (14:29):
And that's an absolute like please, don't get me wrong,
this has to be addressed. But the way we address
it actually is more important.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
Then It's not about putting a label on the Labels
belong on jars, not on people. So again the steps
just to be clear. Address it in the home. Initially,
do some exploratory work once you've just drawn that wine
in the sand. So make sure that he knows nothing
he can tell you. Nothing he can tell he was
going to make you stop loving him. You love him
much more than anything that he could tell you will
(15:00):
be safe. He's got to know. The conversation literally goes
like this, I want to ask you some hard questions.
I want you to know no matter what you tell me,
you can literally tell me absolutely anything and I will
still love you. You are not in trouble, you are
only surrounded by love and goodness, and we want to
help you. But I've got to ask you these hard questions,
and then ask questions about whether he's viewed pornography, whether
(15:22):
somebody at school has shown it to himor whether he's
watching at home, whether somebody's ever touched him, whether the
kids at school are talking about sexually explicit things and
he's decided to act out on it. Ask the direct questions. Reassure, reassure, reassure,
you're not in trouble. We love you too much to
get you in trouble, but we do need to help
you to stop doing this, And also ask him, how
do you feel about touching girls and lifting skirts and
(15:43):
doing these things? How does it make you feel so
that you can really get an understanding of what's going on?
Speaker 4 (15:48):
And how do you think other people are feeling when
you're doing it to them or when they're watching right,
they're watching this happen, How do they feel about you?
How are they going to interact with you in the future. Like, yeah,
perspective is huge.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
If you can stop it here and now, then it
doesn't need to go further. But if there is anything
that comes up in terms of modeling, abuse, viewing explicit
material in an ongoing way, status seeking, dominance, misogyny, or
a neurological challenge, then you absolutely need professional help. Tricky question, Elizabeth,
(16:23):
We hope that was helpful. Thank you very much for
asking the question. If you would like to submit your
tricky question, we've got that super simple system at happy families.
Speaker 1 (16:30):
Dot com dot you.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
You literally press the record button and start talking, or
send us a voice note to podcasts at happy families
dot com dot au. The Happy Families podcast is produced
by Justin Ruland from Bridge Media. More information and more
resources for making your family happier are available at happy
families dot com dot you
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