#1284 - Building & Strengthening Resilience With Tim Curtis

Are we making life too easy for our kids? In a world where we rush to remove every obstacle from our children’s paths, we may be unintentionally robbing them of the very thing they need most—resilience.

In this powerful conversation, Dr. Justin Coulson is joined by Tim Curtis—former SAS Commander, humanitarian, and author of Building Resilient Kids. From war zones to raising teens, Tim’s lived experience offers extraordinary insights into how resilience is truly built. Together, they unpack why a little stress is good, why failure matters, and the foundational layers that make kids bounce back stronger. This is the resilience masterclass every parent needs.

KEY POINTS:

• Resilience isn’t fixed; it can be built.
• The Resilience Shield Model: Six layers—Innate, Mind, Body, Social, Professional, and Adaptation.
• Stress is essential—but it needs to be the right amount.
• Overprotective parenting harms resilience—kids need to struggle to grow.
• The power of strong family connections as the cornerstone of resilience.
• Practical stories from war zones, camps, and families that highlight resilience in action.
• How parents can role model resilience every day (including how we handle bad drivers and broken sinks!).
• Why rest and recovery are crucial parts of resilience—not signs of failure.
• The difference between resilience, willpower, and grit.

QUOTE OF THE EPISODE:

“Resilience varies by degree, not by kind. The stress in your child’s life is real to them—and they need it to grow.” – Tim Curtis

RESOURCES MENTIONED:

• Book: Building Resilient Kids by Tim Curtis (out July 1)
• Podcast: The Unforgiving Sixty
• Podcast: Building Resilient Kids (Tim’s companion podcast to the book)
• Resilience Shield Model – Research-backed framework
• Jill Bolte Taylor on emotions passing in 90 seconds
• Research by Carol Dweck (Growth Mindset) and Angela Duckworth (Grit)

ACTION STEPS FOR PARENTS:

1. Model resilience. Let your kids see you handle stress, setbacks, and failure with grace and recovery.
2. Let them fail—safely. Small failures help kids build the coping mechanisms they’ll need later in life.
3. Prioritise the basics: Sleep, nutrition, exercise, and social connection—these are resilience superpowers.
4. Let them sit with discomfort. Don’t rush to fix every negative emotion. Let them learn that emotions pass.
5. Talk about effort, not outcomes. Celebrate trying, learning, and persisting more than trophies or grades.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:06):
For the last several years, resilience has been the buzzword.
How do we help our kids to be resilient? And
there's a good reason for it. Resilience is on the
way down. We're seeing more and more data that's creating
more and more concern around how our children are backing
up when things get challenging. Do they have the grit,
the distermination, the persistence. Do they have the flexibility and

(00:28):
the adaptability? Today and welcome to the Happy Families Podcast,
Real Parenting Solutions every Day. This is Australia's most downloaded
parenting podcast. My name is doctor Justin Colson, and today
I'm having a chat with a guy who I think
has a few things to share with us about how
to build resilient kids. His name is Tim Curtis. Tim's
personal journey has very much shaped what he understands resilience

(00:50):
to be. I want to share this buier with you
because I think that it's well, it's out of the
ordinary and there's got to absolutely be some things here
that you and your kids will benefit from. Tim grew
up in a military family. He experienced constant change, new cities,
new schools, and new neighborhoods, and a need to adapt
to all of those new environments. He faced challenges like bullying,
being heartbroken, and the occasional teenage brawl, but he didn't

(01:12):
let this define him. Indeed, his childhood experience has culminated
in him receiving a military scholarship and spending sixteen years
in the Army, including the elite sas the Special Air
Service Regiment, where he learned the essence of performing under pressure.
We haven't had too many military folks on this podcast
over the years, and I'm always in awe of the
work that they do and the way that they perform

(01:34):
a duty to this country that very, very few people
are willing to do it. I'm always staggered by what
they're willing to do. But beyond his military careers, him
has led cross cultural teams in some of the world's
most challenging environments. He's witnessed the depths of human suffering,
but also the incredible power of strong families and connected
communities in shaping a child's future by building their resilience.
He's got a brand new book out, well, actually it

(01:55):
comes out next Tuesday. It's called Building Resilient Kids, Drawing
from his diverse experience and providing a comprehensive guide on
fostering resilience in our kids. Now, Tim, so good to
have you on the pod. You're not a school teacher,
you're not a child's psyche, you're not an academic. So
there's a really different view to how you've written this
book and what it's all about. I want to pick

(02:16):
up on a couple of things straight off, just out
of your bio. First off, all of the moves. You're
a kid, You're moving around all over the countryside. How
did you deal with it? Because we get this question
all the time via our email and people are saying
we're about to move, is it the right thing of
the wrong thing? And the kid's going to be resilient?
And there's always been this idea kids are resilient, they'll
be able to move into and adapt to the new environment,

(02:36):
no problem at all. What's your take?

Speaker 2 (02:39):
Maybe jump to the research then I'll give you the answer.
The research is inconclusive. Does geostability assist resilience If you're
in the same place, building connections with friends, does that
assist you in the social layer of your resilience or not?
Or conversely, does portability assist you in, to use your word,
that adaptation and that inconclusiveness is kind of interesting in itself,

(03:03):
but my individual experience is maybe twofold. The first thing
is the pillar of strength provided by family. No matter
what school we were going to, no matter what neighborhood
we were in, no matter what new sporting club, Mum
and Dad were always there for us. And we know
the research says that as little as one parent or
care or other adult that's there for a child will

(03:26):
assist in resilience. And the second part was using prisms
and vectors like sport for me, generally team sport as
a way to not just build skills, but also social connection.
And so as a result, as the removal vans were
pulling away from the house, my brother and I, who

(03:48):
was also a part of my bedrock of family, were
knocking on neighborhood doors asking the parents, Hey, have you
got any kids, And that inevitably led to these solid
foundations of friendships that have preserved all around the country
for us as we've grown older.

Speaker 1 (04:04):
I just love the example of going and knocking on
the doors and saying, have you got any kids? We're
looking to play. I can't imagine that there are too
many families in twenty twenty five who'd say, oh, yeah,
kids did that all the time, really really unusual. Let's
fast forward. We can talk about military, we can talk
about so many other things. But there's something in your
bio that grabbed me when I first found out about
the book and the work that you were doing, and

(04:25):
it was this witnessed the depths of human suffering but
also the incredible power of strong families in connective communities,
world's most challenging environments. I don't know how far into
it you would like to go, but the work that
you've done militarily and since in these environments, it's the
kind of stuff that people can't help but tune into

(04:46):
and say, I just need to know more. What have
you done, where did you go, who did you do
it with, What did it mean? What can you share
in terms of specifics? Will you share one or two things,
one or two stories that highlight how you're experience has
helped you to be more resilient and support the resilience
of others.

Speaker 2 (05:04):
Yeah, absolutely so. I spent two decades working in the
world's most inhospitable locations from Afghanistan to Iraq, to Somalia,
to Sedan, to South Sudan to Sierra Leone, and I
definitely did hand on heart witness the worst of humankind,
the worst that humans can inflict on other humans. But
also how these humans, even little humans, are able to

(05:25):
get through it, are able to persevere or persist. And
perhaps two stories. The first is in my time in
Sierra Leone. I spent ten months as a military advisor
to the government of Sierra Leone during the heights of
the civil war. And when I first arrived, having never
been to Africa before, but having done my research and thinking, look, technically,

(05:48):
this doesn't look like a difficult job. The opposing forces,
the anti government elements, were reasonably primitive. Their tactics were
fairly basic. But I asked around in the formative few weeks,
what are you most scared of now? British Army trained
Sierra Leone Army soldiers came back with a very common answer,

(06:09):
what we're most afraid of is the Small Boys Unit. Now,
the Small Boys Unit of the Revolutionary United Front. That
anti government element were children as young as six. Now,
to get your head around that in our context in
the Western world, is unfathomable that our children could be
armed combatants at the age of six, But even more so,

(06:32):
how could they become the most feared fighting force to
fully grown men who had been trained by the British Army.
And it was because these kids had been grown up
and indoctrinated that murder was noble and rape was normal.
I mean, everything that is just horrific had been conditioned
in these kids. You've spoken before about Paul Bloom and

(06:54):
the massive amount of research that he's done. Well, we
know in Bloom's research that morality is code in a
very young age. So if we code that morality in
our kids to do horrific things, then absolutely they will.
And the second example, maybe one that's a little bit
more contemplative, occurred in my time in Afghanistan where one

(07:15):
of my local staff, Bashyear, invited me to his family
home for dinner. Very basic family home, mud Straw, a
single room that was the communal room. It served as
the lounge room, the dining room, and the sleeping room,
with three generations living in it, grandparents, parents and kids alike.
And we shared a meal on that floor and in

(07:37):
the process of talking geopolitics, Basheer was incredibly wise on geopolitics. Inevitably,
the conversation did turn to family, and he asked some questions, Hey,
do you live like this back in Australia, No, bashar,
we do not. Do you eat like this with three
generations of families back in Australia? Noba, shear, we do not,

(08:00):
and nearly ashamed to tell him that in most family groups,
in most family units in Australia, the kids might be
eating alone. Maybe they're reading with one parent, perhaps the
second parent comes back at a different time. Perhaps they're
reading in front of the television. Well, none of these
things were a thing in Afghanistan. There was no television,

(08:23):
There was no electricity in this small village save for
a small amount of generated power. And it actually got
me thinking, justin have we got it right? Are we
saying that family is all important, but then diverting our
attention to do something completely different.

Speaker 1 (08:40):
We have an economy that demands things that are just
not in harmony with the best interests of our children,
or our families, or even of us. It's extraordinary. Let's
talk more about resilience. Generally. You've developed a model that
I think is worth exploring and Obviously, the book goes
into it in depth. We can barely scratch the surface here,

(09:01):
but let's just talk about a couple of basics around resilience.
First off, there is a growing trend on the part
of well intentioned parents, and I get it because I've
been guilty of it myself, to try to protect our
children from stresses in life. Let's talk about why stress matters.
Let's just start there and then move into resilience. Why
does stress matter? And this is coming from a guy
who has seen some of the most stressful, difficult, challenging,

(09:23):
volatile adversity that life can throw at you.

Speaker 2 (09:28):
We think about stress like it is all incredibly negative.
But Yerks and Dodson, two researchers over one hundred years ago,
prove that some stress in our life is beneficial. We
can't have too little stress, we can't have too much stress,
but the right amount of stress drives us to optimize performance.
And the second comment I'd make to that is the
thing called resilience, which is a big word that hopefully

(09:50):
we've codified in a fairly coherent way. It varies by degree,
not kind. So that amount of stress in your life,
my life, the life of our pair and should be
the same amount of stress in our kid's life, but
it varies by degree, not kind, so it's relative stress.
Perhaps if I can cite one example, my youngest did

(10:12):
not want to go to her year ten school camp.
She said, Dad, I've got anxiety. I don't want to
go and making me anxious. I'm not going to survive
the school camp. Now, back when we were growing up,
that wasn't a clinical term, that word anxiety. It was
just called nervous. We said, nope, you're going to go.
You'll grow from it. And on the other side of

(10:33):
disturbance and disruption is growth. And so off she went.
She came back, had an incredible time, and twelve months
later she's in the United States instructing at a summer
camp herself. A little bit of stress is useful, and
you can also turn your attention to the problems with
helicopter parenting and bulldeouze of parenting the parents that are

(10:56):
hovering around or clearing all obstacles. In longitudinal studies, we
now know that that's not beneficial at all for the child.
It's not teaching them their ability to emotionally regulate, to
problem solve, to cope, it's not teaching any of the
three core components of executive function, including cognitive flexibility and
working memory. In fact, we're degrading the resilience of our

(11:20):
kids by doing that.

Speaker 1 (11:22):
Yeah, it's so funny, isn't it, Because we want the
very best for them, and then when we see them uncomfortable,
we kind of go, well, because I want the best
for you, I'm going to fix this. I'm going to
remove you from the discomfort. And yet that avoidance seems
to reinforce the very anxiety that we're trying to alleviate.

Speaker 2 (11:39):
It comes from a place of love and care and
support and the I mean the inclusive place. Not just parents,
but aunts and uncles and grandparents and teachers and coaches
and mentors. We all do it, try and wrap our
kids up in cotton wall a bit because we love
them so much or care or want to support them significantly,
But it's not benefit. We should allow them to have

(12:02):
a little bit of stress. And interestingly, what the research
says at the youngest of ages, when their brains are
incredibly neuroplastic, where we can laminate pathways that are highly beneficial,
what does that mean for a toddler or wadler. Allow
them to sit in the emotion, not dive in and
try and do something about that emotion good bad, or

(12:24):
in different emotion, but allow them to work out Okay,
this emotion will pass. Jill Bolt Taylor says, it passes
in ninety seconds. It certainly passes in less amounts of
time in our kids, So allow them to wait it
out rather than feeling like the only coping mechanism is
the adult.

Speaker 1 (12:44):
Critical that we remember just how quickly it can pass.
It doesn't always like Sometimes our kids will have an
emotion just I don't know. In the last month or two,
one of my daughters who had a big crush on
a boy, well that all just blew up. It didn't
quite work out, and the emotion lasted about I'm going
to say a week. There was a lot going on,
But that's unusual. The day to day trivialities and challenges

(13:08):
and basic adversities that we all encounter, they're gone pretty quickly.
The person cuts you off on the road, you get
really upset, and literally sixty seconds later, you've typically forgotten
about it, unless it was really bad. Hey, let's move

(13:28):
on to a question that I think really matters a
lot here, and that is just at the very foundations,
the foundational pillars of resilience. What have you written about
these foundations.

Speaker 2 (13:40):
Yeah, So our model in the Resilience Shield, the book
I co wrote with doctor Dan Pronk and Ben Pronk,
recognizes layers of resilience. Now, this is an evidence based model.
It's been validated by the University of Western Australia. And
to skate over what the layers are and then perhaps
to contextualize them after all that. The first is an
innate layer, so part genetics, part epigenetics, how you were

(14:02):
brought up, where you were brought up, Your DNA and
your experiences, including intergenerational experiences counts for a bit. Now
for you and me justin not very modifiable. There's a
bit of your personality in there, there's some of your
morality in there, your values sit in there. So it
is modifiable in some way, but not easily modifiable. The
four truly modifiable layers are the mind layer. It's the

(14:25):
importance of mindset and also the importance of meditation and
mindfulness practices, which yes, you can teach by agent stage
to a Toddler Wardler, tween and teen. Then there's the
body layer. Unsurprisingly, sleep, diet, and exercise. They exist in
this healthy trinity. Anything you do on one of those
angles influences the other angle. And I get no prizes

(14:47):
for telling you and your listeners that. But when we're
under stress load, what are the first three things that
go inevitably at sleep, diet, and exercise.

Speaker 1 (14:56):
We eat lousy, stoping in our bodies and get less sleep.

Speaker 2 (14:59):
Yeah, totally, that's right, that's right. And then there's the
social layer, so the importance of social support systems, the
people that are there for you, those that you're there for.
Then the professional lab. If we suck at our job,
it's likely to bring more stress in our life. This
is about improving confidence and competence to overcome adversities in
our professional life, including a stay at home parents if

(15:21):
that's the profession that you have. And then our bonus layer,
I come back to the words you use right at
the start, is adaptation, our ability to do things that
we never thought we'd be able to do if we
are able to apply the rock solid foundations established in
those underlying layers, and the varies by degree and not

(15:41):
kind model is absolutely transferable to our kids. In all
four stages of their development.

Speaker 1 (15:49):
Yeah, it's really solid. I think there's so much there.
Let me run something past you that I hear all
the time when I'm talking to parents regularly, I'll be
running my resilience presentations in schools and organizations, and I'll
ask the question when when do your children show a
lack of resilience, And consistently I hear things like, well,

(16:09):
they're not very resilient when they're tired or they're hungry.
And I often want to distinguish between resilience and willpower
or capacity to control yourself because you're depleted. And there's
another element as well, and that is people will say, well,
they show a lack of resilience when they don't want
to try, like when they're ready to give up. And

(16:33):
for me, this is my hypothesis. Will power and resilience
are different, and so to perseverance and resilience. In short,
if I have a lousy experience at school, I'm eight
years old and I have a blow up with my friends,
I'm going to come home and I'm going to feel lousy.
I might not be hungry, i might not sleep well,
I might be a little bit emotional, but that doesn't

(16:53):
mean that I'm lacking resilience. It means that I've had
a bad day, And I wonder if you could unpack
that little more and either argue against what I'm saying
or even flesh it out further. Based on your model
and based on the work that you do with the
Resilience Shield and with the new book about helping kids
to be more resilient.

Speaker 2 (17:11):
You think about stress and resilience like they're on a
seesaw with our resilience on one side and stress on
the other, or our kids resilience on one side, and
the amount of stress in their life on the other.
And this isn't fair to compare. These things aren't relative.
But actually, for the most part, we do go through
lives with things in balance. So to your example, a

(17:31):
bit more stress into our kids' life tips the scales
in favor of the stress side of the seesaw. But
remembering if they have had a trying time at school,
whether it's intellectually, whether they have been cognitively sapped, whether
it is sleep, diet, exercise, or the absence of social support,

(17:53):
their friendship network is in their mind dissolving or disintegrating.
A lot of resilience happen to be about rest and recovery,
and we don't really think too much about that. You know,
the true psychological terms you're familiar with is the parasympathetic backlash.
You know, when we see this spike of stress, then

(18:15):
our body wants to return it to homeostasis, but it
dives back through that baseline of equilibrium in order to
reconstitute the neurochemicals that we need to just establish this equilibrium.
So that's the first thing that a lot of resilience
is all about rest and recovery, and our kids don't
really recognize that, hence the importance to guide shape and

(18:37):
supervise them to do that. The second part that's a
bit more interesting is how do we build motivation, tenacity,
will power, or to use Angela Duckworth's word, grit, And
a lot of that is about a little part of
our brain called the anterior mid singular cortex, now the AMCC,
very understudied part of our neurot me is where we

(19:02):
generate this tenacity, will power and determination, and you can
flex it by doing things that are slightly more uncomfortable
than you're willing to deal with. And so we want
our kids to be stressed to the point where they
are flexing that AMCC. That's kind of crucially important. The
other part that relates to this is not just Duckworth's work,

(19:25):
but also Carol Dweck, you know her concept of the
fixed and growth mindset, and those people who have fixed
mindsets believe there is nothing I can do to change
the outcome, whereas the growth mindset individuals and we can
certainly instill this in our kids recognize that failure is
an opportunity to learn, and learning, of course is an

(19:47):
opportunity to grow. And there's a direct correlation to resilience
inside that model as well.

Speaker 1 (19:53):
So let's talk specifically about ways that we can grow
resilience in kids. If parents can take one to maximum
three things out of this conversation to bolster resilience for
their children, what would they be.

Speaker 2 (20:04):
I have to go to the wisdom of all the
experts that I've interviewed for the book. I mean, in
Building Resilient Kids. There's probably sixty plus hours of interviews
and wisdom from the experts, and the things that they
would say back to you justin would be role model
of resilience you want to see in your kids. I
don't know how many times we witness a parent saying

(20:24):
one thing or doing something completely different. If you want
your kids to grow up to be the best version
of them, then show them how it's done. Let me
give you some examples. So if you wake up in
the morning and go and meditate, your child grows up
watching you meditating. They don't put a label on that.
It's just what mum or dad do to remain calm

(20:47):
and balanced and centered, to build this level of self
awareness and self reflection. If you always eat healthy, cook together,
and eat together, they don't describe that as nutrition. It's
just the way we eat. And we could continue on.
That'd be observation number one.

Speaker 1 (21:04):
I want to jump in on you here because this
modeling is so important when I think about Resilien. It's
one of the examples that I love to share, and
i'd love your reaction. When you're in the car and
somebody cuts you off, or when you're a sporting event
and the referee can't see very well with his two
eyes what you can clearly see with your one, and
so you start making a big noise about decisions that

(21:27):
don't go your way. What are the children seeing? We say,
that we want ac kid to be resilience, but often
our responses to the adversity and hardship that we encounter
tends to be more reactive than resilient.

Speaker 2 (21:39):
Your thoughts absolutely is, without question, and it's largely because
we are inundated with data. The University of California, Los
Angeles says thirty four gigabytes a day, and that's compounding
five percent year on year. So how are you flushing
the nonsense from your head? How are you bringing yourself
to a place where your reaction isn't driven by the

(21:59):
end that thinks you're being attacked by sabertoothed tiger, not
being cut off in traffic, and therefore creating space between
stimulus and response. And of course i'm paraphrasing man Search
for Meeting by Victor Frankel. That quote's been attributed to Francle.
But that's space between stimulus and response is incredibly important,
and we can practice at reps and sets really matter

(22:24):
in order to get a better response. Now, it doesn't
mean you won't be perfect. I had an outburst at
my youngest just a couple of weeks ago, and of course,
classic amygdala hijack. Thought the circumstance, which was a broken
sink was threatening my life. I thought it was the
saber tooth tiger. It was not. It was just a

(22:44):
broken sink. And of course the key measure here, when
you think of Goldman's work on amigdala hijack, the key
thing that a human reflects on immediately after having an
amidala hijack, the key emotion is shame and regret. And
I've experienced both of those nearly instantly, and I immediately
went to my young, lucy, beautiful baby daughter and apologized

(23:08):
profusely for the way I'd reacted. So even though I
know the theory, even though yes I meditate and I'm
mindful and I try and get my brain into a
place of balance, it can still happen, for sure, so hard.

Speaker 1 (23:21):
So that's one is great modeling. What would another really
central strategy for parents be to bolster their kids' resilience?

Speaker 2 (23:31):
Yeah, I turned the microphone around on the experts in
my final question to everyone that I researched with for
building resilient kids, and said, what are the thing? What
are the things? And specifically, what is the one thing
that you would suggest that we should be allowing kids
to do, enabling kids to do, and generally speaking, there

(23:53):
was a common theme let them fail, but fail well.
Let them understand that this is isn't about the aplus
on the report card, or the blue ribbon at the
sports carnival or the trophy. It's about the effort that
they put out to get those things that actually we

(24:14):
want to be recognizing that effort's more important than achievement.
And it does certainly link back to the work of
Carol Dweck allowing them to learn from their failures rather
than engineering their success. Now we can we can do that.
We can set the preconditions for our kids to be
successful in nearly everything. Do their homework for them, make

(24:34):
their lunch for them, drive them to school, don't allow
them to be late for sporting practice, ensure that their
school uniforms are always launded. Or we can insert some
little stressors in their life that enable them to fail,
to learn, to learn.

Speaker 1 (24:49):
Well, and to grow tim They's insights are so fundamental,
and in some ways they're so basic, like people would
be listening going yeah, yeah, I know that, I know that,
And yet the simple is often the most profound. And
these are the things that people I think will resonate
with the most. I so much appreciate your sharing the
wisdom that you've shared. Like I said, we barely scratch

(25:11):
the surface. Brand new book, Building Resilient Kids, by Tim
Curtis comes out next week, available for pre order now,
I guess online.

Speaker 2 (25:19):
Yeah, absolutely, ebook, audiobook and also paperback published by Pam McMillan.
A big shout out to Alex Lloyd, my editor. He's
persisted with me on book number two. But Building Resilient
Kids available in all good bookshops and probably some of
the bad ones too, justin on the first of July.
Pre order before the first of July.

Speaker 1 (25:38):
Yeah, great, so jump online. We will link to Building
Resilient Kids in the show notes so that you can
if this is something that's sparked your interest. Hey, just
before we go as well, obviously you've done plenty of
resilient things over the years. You've got a podcast. Tell
us about the pod and how people can find out
about that and how much of a resilience boost that's
going to give them.

Speaker 2 (25:58):
Yeah, there's two podcasts actually. The first one is the
Unforgiving sixty podcast that I co host with Ben Pronk,
and it interviews people living lives less ordinary, those people
who are inspiring us to do things bigger, better, maybe
even a little bit badder. It's a bit of a
variety show, but we look at what they do for

(26:19):
themselves to go all ways a little further. Unforgiving sixty
is a line from a Rudyard Kipling poem where Kipling
challenges us to fill your unforgiving minute with sixty seconds
worth of distance run. You'll be highly familiar with it
the poem, if will fill every moment in your life.
And the second is a podcast by the name of

(26:39):
the book Building Resilient Kids, where I'll be exploring, initially
with all of those cast members in the book, those
people that I have interviewed, what do they do? How
can we bring this to life by age and stage
for all of our kids. A lot of this is
codified in the tools and techniques inside the book, but
more person suddenly, what do they do that maybe isn't

(27:02):
captured inside the interviews and inside print in the book?

Speaker 1 (27:07):
Fantastic? Okay, well, we will link to those in the
show notes as well. Tim Curtis, the author, the podcaster,
the former SAS commander and squadron leader, and everything else.
What a privilege to be able to have you on
the podcast today. Thank you for not just the books
that you've written and the podcast that your host. But
I know that this is one of those things that
you see in American movies on social media and you

(27:29):
kind of roll your eyes. But what you do, or
what you've done for our country and for preserving peace
and making a difference in the world, I just think
that that needs to be identified. It's not just impressive,
it's noble and noteworthy, and I'm so grateful for people
like you who are willing to do it.

Speaker 2 (27:44):
Thank you, Tim, appreciate your time. Lucky to be on
your show.

Speaker 1 (27:48):
The Happy Family's podcast is produced by Justin Roland from
Bridge Media. If you'd like more info about the things
we've talked about, Tim Curtis's details are through all the
show notes, and you can find out more about making
your family happier by visiting Happy families dot com dot
a um hm hm