May 5, 2024 • 18 mins
Content warning: not for young ears.
“If you had to be in the forest with a man or a bear, which would you choose?”. How do we get to the point where we can answer without hesitation “a man!”?
In this episode:
- Violence against women
- Parents stepping up
- Teaching morality
- The 'No More' rallies
- Influence of explicit pornography on young men
Links:
- Quote by Saint Augustine: “Right is right even if no one is doing it...”
- The five demands of the No More national rallies (womensagenda.com.au)
- Helping Our Boys Grow Into Men – Happy Families
- How to Prevent your Child Becoming A #metoo (and Prevent your Child from Creating One) – Happy Families
Leave a voice memo here or email your questions/comments to podcasts@happyfamilies.com.au
Find out more about joining THE QUEST at our website
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
It's the Happy Families podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
It's the podcast for the.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
Time poor parent who just once answers.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Now hello, it stock to justin course, I'm here with
my wife and mound to our six kids. Kighly Mishappy Families.
Just a quick note, today's content is probably if the
sensitive is if you've got little kids listening, you may
want to be judicious and discerning in terms of what
they listen to. In this podcast, non stop talking the
news at the moment around harm to women at the
(00:32):
hands of men. And this is doing the rounds on TikTok.
It's a fascinating conversation. Okay, if you.
Speaker 3 (00:40):
Had to leave your daughter in the forest with either
a man or a bear.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
Which would youious, Well, I think both options gonna suck.
I don't know this man, Oh gosh, I don't know
anything about them now, anything about the bear.
Speaker 3 (00:58):
Nothing about the bear. My gosh.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
I feel he's an a possible choice, which just shows
you how much I don't trust other people.
Speaker 3 (01:04):
I don't know the man. I was gonna say, Man,
the fine, Okay, if you had to leave your daughter
in the woods with a woman or a bear. Oh,
the facts that we live in a society where that's
what women have to deal with all the time. Of
the fear you felt, the fear of leaving your daughter
in the woods with a man. This is how women
(01:27):
feel walking to their cars at night.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
Like the level of thinking one of my kids, trusting
my kid with a bear or a strange man is
a horrifying position.
Speaker 3 (01:37):
Like, is that a horrifying walking to your car by
your there's a man there?
Speaker 1 (01:42):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (01:42):
You see like a man? Oh you see like a dude? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (01:45):
Oh no, that makes sense?
Speaker 3 (01:46):
And oh okay, okay again I know about it.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
Is that shocking to you?
Speaker 3 (01:51):
Yes, very shocking. That's very nigh over me.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
Okay. So TikTok is primarily filled with a whole lot
of people who don't have any credentials or qualifications talk
about a whole lot of things that they're not really
qualified to talk about. Nevertheless, it's taking over the world.
It has taken over the world. But this particular thing
really grabbed me and I've been thinking about it NonStop
since I heard it. There's a lot that I don't
like about it, but boy, boy, is there's some really
(02:16):
important stuff here. Kylie. You haven't spoken yet in this
podcast because you're not feeling great.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
Well after your warning at the beginning of the podcast,
I thought it might be because the kids would be
scared by my face.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
So I don't know how this is. I know how
this is going to work out. But other than the
fact that you're feeling kind of awful, what are your comments?
What are your initial reactions when you think about that conversation.
How do you feel about handing over your child, one
of our daughters, to either a man or a bear,
leaving them in the forest with either a man or
a bear. How hard is that decision?
Speaker 1 (02:48):
Well, you know, growing up with Jungle Book, there is
a little bit of romanticizing in my mind that maybe
it was.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
Blue that I might be leaving my MUTI will be
safe with the wolves, It'll be okay.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
But what really stood out to me as I listened
to that time and time again was just he eventually
got to the point where it's like, it's obvious, I'm
going to have to leave her with the man, but
I don't like it. But when it came to the
second question of whether he would leave it with a
woman or a bear, it was an instant, an instant easy, yes.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
Yeah, And that's the problem, right, So I've been thinking
about it NonStop as well. And you don't even have
to hesitate woman or bear a woman absolutely man or beer?
Speaker 1 (03:33):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (03:34):
Can I?
Speaker 2 (03:34):
Can I phind a friend? Can I have a lifeline?
Can I get a fifty to fifty here?
Speaker 1 (03:38):
But what I actually found most interesting is it wasn't
a conversation between two women. It was a conversation with
a man. And even a man could see the challenge
of leaving their daughter with another man.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
This really hurts me, though, so I want to I
wanted to sort of say, hashtag not all men, and
and that's a really common response by guys. Guys get
really defensive about this and they say, yeah, but I'm
not like that. We've got this national conversation happening around
gendered violence at the moment. And the reason this is
so effective is because when a man has to pause
and consider do I trust other men? That's when the
(04:16):
issue really rears its head. Now many men are not safe,
and far too many men are not safe, and that
number seems to be rising. We'll talk about that later.
But the thing that really hurts me is so many
men are and yet those ones who I mean, they
really ruin it for everybody, the men that I spend
time with, Like, across the weekend just gone, we spent
some time with several different friends and also part of
(04:37):
our church community. I was thinking, I was because of
this conversation. I couldn't stop thinking about how exceptional, like
how truly truly exceptional, those men were that we were with.
They're safe men, and I would absolutely, unflinchingly leave our
kids with pretty much all of it. It's certainly the
ones that we know without any hesitation at all, just yes.
(05:00):
But that's the thing. You don't get to choose that,
And when you're walking down the street, you don't get
to or even when you enter a relationship with a guy,
you don't get to say, oh, well this one I
can trust. It takes time. And we even know people
who the guys that they married suddenly changed within a
couple of weeks of being married. All of a sudden,
they were it was jackal and high. They weren't who
they'd been prior to the marriage. Really really really challenging.
(05:23):
And the other thought that I had was, even though
I'm thinking about all the good examples of great men
that I know, when I go surfing, For example, sometimes
depending on where I'm surfing and depending on who's in
the water, I look at the guys that I'm surfing with,
and I just think, Oh, my goodness, how terrifying. I
would absolutely under no circumstances, no way. Well, I lick
(05:44):
my daughters with some of these men. I mean that
they're intimidating for me, they're absolutely scary.
Speaker 1 (05:50):
I know that for so many women this is real,
and the experiences that they have had or are in
the midst of having a life altering heartbreaking. But I
don't want to live my life where I have to
second guess the safety of half the human race based
(06:12):
on their gender. And I don't want my children being raised.
I have six daughters, and I want them to live
with confidence and with the notion that most people are
good people.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
That's really tricky, though, because when you look at the
way our children have, Like we've got several children who
are our adults, and they've all had some pretty difficult
experiences with young men, Like they're dating experiences, they're being
out and about with young men. They haven't had universally
positive experiences there. And what they've learned is that overwhelmingly
(06:48):
you can't trust a guy when you're on a date
and you're alone with it. That's what they've learned.
Speaker 1 (06:57):
Just the other weekend, one of our daughters was out
with some friends at the beach and towards the end
of the evening it was now dark. Her and her
girlfriend went up to the car park to wait for
her friend's mum to come and get them, and her
mum was about twenty minutes away. As the boys left,
they checked in with the girls and found out that,
you know, they were going to be waiting for twenty minutes,
(07:18):
and the girls acknowledged that they were completely fine and
safe and they were happy for the boys to leave. Well,
the girls actually thought the boys had left, but what
they did was they went and sat in their car,
and from their car they could actually see the girls.
But at some point in that twenty minutes, the girls
moved from where they were and our daughter got a
phone call to say, have you guys been picked up yet?
(07:42):
And our daughter said, no, no, we're still waiting. They said,
we just can't see where you are. And at that
point they realized that the boys had been waiting and
they said, why are you waiting for us? We're completely fine,
and they just said, we're not going to leave until
you go, And so they got off the phone after
they tried to convince the boys that it was okay
for them to leave, and it wasn't until they were
(08:02):
in the car with the girlfriend's mum that the boys
gave one what last one call and said, okay, you
guys are good. Great, we'll see at school on Monday.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
So I love the goodness of those boys in the
car park. I think that's really important. But at some level,
when I hear that story, that also tells me that
those boys are there because of what they know about
the boys who aren't like them. That highlights to me
that there's some really really great kids out there, really
good boys, but they know that compared to the other boys,
they are different, they are good, and that there's a
whole lot of boys that they need to protect our
(08:35):
daughter and her friends from. I spoke with a girl
just in the last twenty four hours who is routinely
sat next to on public transport by boys and men,
even when there are spare seats nearby, because they like
the look of it. I mean, that's awful for me
when I'm traveling and I do a lot of travel.
If I see a woman walking down the street, often
my events finish at like nine o'clock at night or
(08:55):
something like that. I'm heading back to a hotel. I'm
walking into a hotel at ten o'clock at night. If
I see walking down the street towards me, I'll even
walk to the other side of the street, just so
that she doesn't have to wonder about the guy that's
walking towards her. If I'm getting into an elevator and
there's a woman waiting, I'll often just say, hey, you
grab this one, I'll get the next one. Because I
don't want a woman to feel uncomfortable. I don't want
to feel afraid. I don't think that she needs to
(09:17):
be afraid of me. Obviously I'm not someone to be
afraid of. But I get because I've got a wife
and six daughters and a mum and several sisters and
all that sort of thing. I get that for women
being around some men can be really intimidating.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
This won't be a popular response, but when I look
at what we're dealing with and I hear this, I
can't put the blame all on men. There has been
such a massive breakdown of family over the years, and
it is having a devastating effect on everyone. But this
really comes down to parents stepping up and taking on
(09:52):
their role as parents, as moral leaders within our society,
and teaching our boys and our girl what it means
to live a moralistic life.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
Once upon a time, a guy called Augustine of Hippo said,
right is right, even if no one is doing it.
Wrong is wrong, even if everyone is doing it. In
a post modern world, right is whatever feels good for you.
And as we've become increasingly individualistic and we shrugged our
shoulders and said, oh, well, whatever works for you as
long as you're not hurting other people. That has led,
(10:24):
in so many ways to that degradation. Walking away from
the values, walking away from what we know traditionally has
kept people, and specifically boys and men in check. Now,
I don't want to keep on forcing you to talk,
because I know how I saw your throat is. But
over the last couple of weeks there's been a whole
lot of rallies and a whole lot of people petitioning
the government saying we need to do something about this.
Speaker 1 (10:47):
I'm just wondering what people expect politicians to be able
to do in this scenario.
Speaker 2 (10:51):
Yes, so they made five demands. Five demands at these rallies.
Number one, they wanted to declare domestic violence and national emergency.
I mean absolutely, no problem. All we need to be
able to say that this needs resources and this needs
time and effort. Number two mandatory victim blaming prevention training
for police, media and first responders. That means that they're
essentially saying, we want first responders to believe women when
(11:15):
they say there's something going wrong. I think that is right,
but there also is a risk associated with that, because
we've got good evidence that there are some people who
will use this as a weapon against men who haven't
done anything wrong. It's a minority of people, but it
does happen because people gain the system to get the
outcomes that they want. Nevertheless, I think overall that is
a really wise step. Number three alternative reporting options for
(11:37):
victims so that they don't have to just go through
the official channels. There should be other ways that they
can report what they're afraid of. Number four media to
wait forty eight hours before identifying victims. And number five
better funding. Now, my problem with most of these is
that their ambulances at the bottom of the cliff. It's
well intentioned, but I think that's missing the point. There
are actually things that can act as a fence at
(11:59):
the top of the cliff and stop boys and men
hurting women.
Speaker 1 (12:02):
What would you suggest?
Speaker 2 (12:04):
So I'm going to highlight a couple of things that
are not politically correct, but data certainly supports them. I'm
going to offend pretty much everybody with what I'm going
to say here, but number one, there's a lack of
security and family life for too many of our young
men and young women growing up, and that leads them
to seek support and relational belonging in places that are
not healthy and not safe. Reading a book at the
moment about a young man who went through the foster
(12:24):
care system in the United States, it's not much different
to Australia in terms of the unpredictability and the difficulty
that he had in forming good relationships, the lack of
male role models, the breakdown of community institutions that build
up and taught morality. As imperfect as many of them are,
and they are, we had community support, We had structures
(12:44):
in place, we had expectations in place for how people
would act I'm not suggesting we go back to the
bad old days, because there was a lot bad that happened. However,
we do know that things have gotten worse, there is
no doubt about that. I think one of the easiest
places to start is with the degradation of community standards.
It's a huge part of this. I'm going to get really, really,
really explicit for a second. If you've got kids listening,
(13:05):
this is the thirty to sixty seconds that you don't
want them to listen. I was speaking with a journalist
the other day and she was describing a family member
a conversation that she'd had with a niece of hers
young adult niece who was having a really hard time
in relationships and finding a guy that she could trust.
And the conversation turned explicit and extreme, very very quickly.
(13:26):
And this girl describes to her aunt, my friend the journalist,
about how in her relationships with these young men, choking
and hitting and anal sex were expected, even on a
first date. And this friend just looked through and said,
that's not normal, and her niece responded, no, but it
is normal. That is that's the expectation when we look
(13:49):
at the content that is being consumed by young people pornography.
The Open Easy government won't even age Kate at recommendations
from the e Safety Commissioner last year where that we
need to get at least to trial in place where
we age gate access to explicit content. They're doing it
in other countries around the world, other states of the
United States of America, and the Aubaneze government pushed back
and said no, we can't. Why because we're so worried
(14:10):
about the civil liberties of a handful of adults that
we're not going to look after our young people. We're
going to present them with every risk factor in the
world so that adults can have freedom of choice. It's
just ridiculous. Kyle and Jackie Oh have been on the
radio in Melbourne for a week now. Last week and
the week before I've had two reports. So Craig Bruce
is our executive producer. He once upon a time, back
(14:31):
in the olden days, he was the content director for
the entire Southern Cross Oisterea network, and he was the
content director when Kyle and Jackie came off the night
program and became the breakfast announced as at TODAYFM. Now.
Back then, Kyle called a woman and this is a
direct quote a fat slag and he was reprimanded. This
thing was sent to the advisory bodies of the Peak Body.
(14:53):
It was a big deal. In the last two weeks,
I've heard content from Kyle and Jackie's show because Craig
sent it to me where they've talked about anal sex.
They've talked about how big Jackie's vagina is. They've talked
about her walking around with seam and in fact they
didn't use the word semen. They used a much more
profane term for that, walking around all day with that
in her stomach. There is no filter. There is absolutely
(15:15):
no filter. Why is this a problem Because they're the
number one breakfast show in Sydney. Now they're in Melbourne,
They've got more than a million daily listeners. And these
discussions normalize sexualization and objectification. They were talking about being
on a dance floor and not knowing who was fingering you.
I'm sorry, I know I'm being really explicit, but our
kids are listening to this. They're the number one show.
(15:36):
This is not a podcast, This is not hidden behind
an age gate. This is content that is available for
everyone and what it does is it shifts expect that
this was between six am and eight am. It's blowing
my mind, and it shifts expectations and builds a belief
and changes subsequent behavior because people think this is what
people do, but it's normal if you go back to
(15:57):
the young woman that was talking to the journal's friend
of mine, but it's not. And this stuff matters so ultimately.
I mean, it sounds like I'm in a moral soapbox
right now, but parenting is a moral endeavor. And when
we remove morality from most of the institutions of our society,
including in too many cases our families, because of the
(16:17):
proliferation of pornography, because of the coarseness and degradation of
the community content, because of the breakdown of the institutions,
and because families just aren't talking about this sort of stuff.
This is the result. And people keep on saying, we
shouldn't have to teach our girls to stay safe, we
need to teach boys to stop hurting and being violent worse.
And that's true, that's absolutely true. But here's the thing.
(16:39):
The world is not perfect, and we actually need to
do both. Fewer perpetrators completely essential, absolutely needed, But we
can't tarnish your boys either, because there are some beautifully
good boys that are out there, and we interact with
many of them, and we're so grateful for them. There
was a school in Warnable a couple of years ago
that made all the boys stand up and apologize to
(16:59):
the girls for being boys because because of the terrible
things that boys do to girls, and that was appalling.
It was rightly condemned. But Kylie, this isn't going to
be quickly fixed at a national level. No level of
political involvement is really going to make this happen. It's
something that has to be fixed at an individual level
and at a family level. We've got the evidence and
we know that there are so many good men and
(17:20):
so many good boys. We've got to get to a
point where if you're asked if you would rather leave
your daughter with a man or a bear, you can
answer just as quickly as you can if you've given
the choice between a bear and a woman. Got to
be able to say a man and feel good about it.
The Happy Families podcast is produced by Justin Ruland from
Bridge Media. Craig Bruce is our executive producer. We hope
(17:44):
that this one's given you plenty of food for thought.
Thanks so much for listening. We'll be back tomorrow on
the podcast. Answering your questions from the podcast page at
happy families dot com dot au.
It's the Happy Families podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
It's the podcast for the.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
Time poor parent who just once answers.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Now hello, it stock to justin course, I'm here with
my wife and mound to our six kids. Kighly Mishappy Families.
Just a quick note, today's content is probably if the
sensitive is if you've got little kids listening, you may
want to be judicious and discerning in terms of what
they listen to. In this podcast, non stop talking the
news at the moment around harm to women at the
(00:32):
hands of men. And this is doing the rounds on TikTok.
It's a fascinating conversation. Okay, if you.
Speaker 3 (00:40):
Had to leave your daughter in the forest with either
a man or a bear.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
Which would youious, Well, I think both options gonna suck.
I don't know this man, Oh gosh, I don't know
anything about them now, anything about the bear.
Speaker 3 (00:58):
Nothing about the bear. My gosh.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
I feel he's an a possible choice, which just shows
you how much I don't trust other people.
Speaker 3 (01:04):
I don't know the man. I was gonna say, Man,
the fine, Okay, if you had to leave your daughter
in the woods with a woman or a bear. Oh,
the facts that we live in a society where that's
what women have to deal with all the time. Of
the fear you felt, the fear of leaving your daughter
in the woods with a man. This is how women
(01:27):
feel walking to their cars at night.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
Like the level of thinking one of my kids, trusting
my kid with a bear or a strange man is
a horrifying position.
Speaker 3 (01:37):
Like, is that a horrifying walking to your car by
your there's a man there?
Speaker 1 (01:42):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (01:42):
You see like a man? Oh you see like a dude? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (01:45):
Oh no, that makes sense?
Speaker 3 (01:46):
And oh okay, okay again I know about it.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
Is that shocking to you?
Speaker 3 (01:51):
Yes, very shocking. That's very nigh over me.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
Okay. So TikTok is primarily filled with a whole lot
of people who don't have any credentials or qualifications talk
about a whole lot of things that they're not really
qualified to talk about. Nevertheless, it's taking over the world.
It has taken over the world. But this particular thing
really grabbed me and I've been thinking about it NonStop
since I heard it. There's a lot that I don't
like about it, but boy, boy, is there's some really
(02:16):
important stuff here. Kylie. You haven't spoken yet in this
podcast because you're not feeling great.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
Well after your warning at the beginning of the podcast,
I thought it might be because the kids would be
scared by my face.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
So I don't know how this is. I know how
this is going to work out. But other than the
fact that you're feeling kind of awful, what are your comments?
What are your initial reactions when you think about that conversation.
How do you feel about handing over your child, one
of our daughters, to either a man or a bear,
leaving them in the forest with either a man or
a bear. How hard is that decision?
Speaker 1 (02:48):
Well, you know, growing up with Jungle Book, there is
a little bit of romanticizing in my mind that maybe
it was.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
Blue that I might be leaving my MUTI will be
safe with the wolves, It'll be okay.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
But what really stood out to me as I listened
to that time and time again was just he eventually
got to the point where it's like, it's obvious, I'm
going to have to leave her with the man, but
I don't like it. But when it came to the
second question of whether he would leave it with a
woman or a bear, it was an instant, an instant easy, yes.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
Yeah, And that's the problem, right, So I've been thinking
about it NonStop as well. And you don't even have
to hesitate woman or bear a woman absolutely man or beer?
Speaker 1 (03:33):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (03:34):
Can I?
Speaker 2 (03:34):
Can I phind a friend? Can I have a lifeline?
Can I get a fifty to fifty here?
Speaker 1 (03:38):
But what I actually found most interesting is it wasn't
a conversation between two women. It was a conversation with
a man. And even a man could see the challenge
of leaving their daughter with another man.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
This really hurts me, though, so I want to I
wanted to sort of say, hashtag not all men, and
and that's a really common response by guys. Guys get
really defensive about this and they say, yeah, but I'm
not like that. We've got this national conversation happening around
gendered violence at the moment. And the reason this is
so effective is because when a man has to pause
and consider do I trust other men? That's when the
(04:16):
issue really rears its head. Now many men are not safe,
and far too many men are not safe, and that
number seems to be rising. We'll talk about that later.
But the thing that really hurts me is so many
men are and yet those ones who I mean, they
really ruin it for everybody, the men that I spend
time with, Like, across the weekend just gone, we spent
some time with several different friends and also part of
(04:37):
our church community. I was thinking, I was because of
this conversation. I couldn't stop thinking about how exceptional, like
how truly truly exceptional, those men were that we were with.
They're safe men, and I would absolutely, unflinchingly leave our
kids with pretty much all of it. It's certainly the
ones that we know without any hesitation at all, just yes.
(05:00):
But that's the thing. You don't get to choose that,
And when you're walking down the street, you don't get
to or even when you enter a relationship with a guy,
you don't get to say, oh, well this one I
can trust. It takes time. And we even know people
who the guys that they married suddenly changed within a
couple of weeks of being married. All of a sudden,
they were it was jackal and high. They weren't who
they'd been prior to the marriage. Really really really challenging.
(05:23):
And the other thought that I had was, even though
I'm thinking about all the good examples of great men
that I know, when I go surfing, For example, sometimes
depending on where I'm surfing and depending on who's in
the water, I look at the guys that I'm surfing with,
and I just think, Oh, my goodness, how terrifying. I
would absolutely under no circumstances, no way. Well, I lick
(05:44):
my daughters with some of these men. I mean that
they're intimidating for me, they're absolutely scary.
Speaker 1 (05:50):
I know that for so many women this is real,
and the experiences that they have had or are in
the midst of having a life altering heartbreaking. But I
don't want to live my life where I have to
second guess the safety of half the human race based
(06:12):
on their gender. And I don't want my children being raised.
I have six daughters, and I want them to live
with confidence and with the notion that most people are
good people.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
That's really tricky, though, because when you look at the
way our children have, Like we've got several children who
are our adults, and they've all had some pretty difficult
experiences with young men, Like they're dating experiences, they're being
out and about with young men. They haven't had universally
positive experiences there. And what they've learned is that overwhelmingly
(06:48):
you can't trust a guy when you're on a date
and you're alone with it. That's what they've learned.
Speaker 1 (06:57):
Just the other weekend, one of our daughters was out
with some friends at the beach and towards the end
of the evening it was now dark. Her and her
girlfriend went up to the car park to wait for
her friend's mum to come and get them, and her
mum was about twenty minutes away. As the boys left,
they checked in with the girls and found out that,
you know, they were going to be waiting for twenty minutes,
(07:18):
and the girls acknowledged that they were completely fine and
safe and they were happy for the boys to leave. Well,
the girls actually thought the boys had left, but what
they did was they went and sat in their car,
and from their car they could actually see the girls.
But at some point in that twenty minutes, the girls
moved from where they were and our daughter got a
phone call to say, have you guys been picked up yet?
(07:42):
And our daughter said, no, no, we're still waiting. They said,
we just can't see where you are. And at that
point they realized that the boys had been waiting and
they said, why are you waiting for us? We're completely fine,
and they just said, we're not going to leave until
you go, And so they got off the phone after
they tried to convince the boys that it was okay
for them to leave, and it wasn't until they were
(08:02):
in the car with the girlfriend's mum that the boys
gave one what last one call and said, okay, you
guys are good. Great, we'll see at school on Monday.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
So I love the goodness of those boys in the
car park. I think that's really important. But at some level,
when I hear that story, that also tells me that
those boys are there because of what they know about
the boys who aren't like them. That highlights to me
that there's some really really great kids out there, really
good boys, but they know that compared to the other boys,
they are different, they are good, and that there's a
whole lot of boys that they need to protect our
(08:35):
daughter and her friends from. I spoke with a girl
just in the last twenty four hours who is routinely
sat next to on public transport by boys and men,
even when there are spare seats nearby, because they like
the look of it. I mean, that's awful for me
when I'm traveling and I do a lot of travel.
If I see a woman walking down the street, often
my events finish at like nine o'clock at night or
(08:55):
something like that. I'm heading back to a hotel. I'm
walking into a hotel at ten o'clock at night. If
I see walking down the street towards me, I'll even
walk to the other side of the street, just so
that she doesn't have to wonder about the guy that's
walking towards her. If I'm getting into an elevator and
there's a woman waiting, I'll often just say, hey, you
grab this one, I'll get the next one. Because I
don't want a woman to feel uncomfortable. I don't want
to feel afraid. I don't think that she needs to
(09:17):
be afraid of me. Obviously I'm not someone to be
afraid of. But I get because I've got a wife
and six daughters and a mum and several sisters and
all that sort of thing. I get that for women
being around some men can be really intimidating.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
This won't be a popular response, but when I look
at what we're dealing with and I hear this, I
can't put the blame all on men. There has been
such a massive breakdown of family over the years, and
it is having a devastating effect on everyone. But this
really comes down to parents stepping up and taking on
(09:52):
their role as parents, as moral leaders within our society,
and teaching our boys and our girl what it means
to live a moralistic life.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
Once upon a time, a guy called Augustine of Hippo said,
right is right, even if no one is doing it.
Wrong is wrong, even if everyone is doing it. In
a post modern world, right is whatever feels good for you.
And as we've become increasingly individualistic and we shrugged our
shoulders and said, oh, well, whatever works for you as
long as you're not hurting other people. That has led,
(10:24):
in so many ways to that degradation. Walking away from
the values, walking away from what we know traditionally has
kept people, and specifically boys and men in check. Now,
I don't want to keep on forcing you to talk,
because I know how I saw your throat is. But
over the last couple of weeks there's been a whole
lot of rallies and a whole lot of people petitioning
the government saying we need to do something about this.
Speaker 1 (10:47):
I'm just wondering what people expect politicians to be able
to do in this scenario.
Speaker 2 (10:51):
Yes, so they made five demands. Five demands at these rallies.
Number one, they wanted to declare domestic violence and national emergency.
I mean absolutely, no problem. All we need to be
able to say that this needs resources and this needs
time and effort. Number two mandatory victim blaming prevention training
for police, media and first responders. That means that they're
essentially saying, we want first responders to believe women when
(11:15):
they say there's something going wrong. I think that is right,
but there also is a risk associated with that, because
we've got good evidence that there are some people who
will use this as a weapon against men who haven't
done anything wrong. It's a minority of people, but it
does happen because people gain the system to get the
outcomes that they want. Nevertheless, I think overall that is
a really wise step. Number three alternative reporting options for
(11:37):
victims so that they don't have to just go through
the official channels. There should be other ways that they
can report what they're afraid of. Number four media to
wait forty eight hours before identifying victims. And number five
better funding. Now, my problem with most of these is
that their ambulances at the bottom of the cliff. It's
well intentioned, but I think that's missing the point. There
are actually things that can act as a fence at
(11:59):
the top of the cliff and stop boys and men
hurting women.
Speaker 1 (12:02):
What would you suggest?
Speaker 2 (12:04):
So I'm going to highlight a couple of things that
are not politically correct, but data certainly supports them. I'm
going to offend pretty much everybody with what I'm going
to say here, but number one, there's a lack of
security and family life for too many of our young
men and young women growing up, and that leads them
to seek support and relational belonging in places that are
not healthy and not safe. Reading a book at the
moment about a young man who went through the foster
(12:24):
care system in the United States, it's not much different
to Australia in terms of the unpredictability and the difficulty
that he had in forming good relationships, the lack of
male role models, the breakdown of community institutions that build
up and taught morality. As imperfect as many of them are,
and they are, we had community support, We had structures
(12:44):
in place, we had expectations in place for how people
would act I'm not suggesting we go back to the
bad old days, because there was a lot bad that happened. However,
we do know that things have gotten worse, there is
no doubt about that. I think one of the easiest
places to start is with the degradation of community standards.
It's a huge part of this. I'm going to get really, really,
really explicit for a second. If you've got kids listening,
(13:05):
this is the thirty to sixty seconds that you don't
want them to listen. I was speaking with a journalist
the other day and she was describing a family member
a conversation that she'd had with a niece of hers
young adult niece who was having a really hard time
in relationships and finding a guy that she could trust.
And the conversation turned explicit and extreme, very very quickly.
(13:26):
And this girl describes to her aunt, my friend the journalist,
about how in her relationships with these young men, choking
and hitting and anal sex were expected, even on a
first date. And this friend just looked through and said,
that's not normal, and her niece responded, no, but it
is normal. That is that's the expectation when we look
(13:49):
at the content that is being consumed by young people pornography.
The Open Easy government won't even age Kate at recommendations
from the e Safety Commissioner last year where that we
need to get at least to trial in place where
we age gate access to explicit content. They're doing it
in other countries around the world, other states of the
United States of America, and the Aubaneze government pushed back
and said no, we can't. Why because we're so worried
(14:10):
about the civil liberties of a handful of adults that
we're not going to look after our young people. We're
going to present them with every risk factor in the
world so that adults can have freedom of choice. It's
just ridiculous. Kyle and Jackie Oh have been on the
radio in Melbourne for a week now. Last week and
the week before I've had two reports. So Craig Bruce
is our executive producer. He once upon a time, back
(14:31):
in the olden days, he was the content director for
the entire Southern Cross Oisterea network, and he was the
content director when Kyle and Jackie came off the night
program and became the breakfast announced as at TODAYFM. Now.
Back then, Kyle called a woman and this is a
direct quote a fat slag and he was reprimanded. This
thing was sent to the advisory bodies of the Peak Body.
(14:53):
It was a big deal. In the last two weeks,
I've heard content from Kyle and Jackie's show because Craig
sent it to me where they've talked about anal sex.
They've talked about how big Jackie's vagina is. They've talked
about her walking around with seam and in fact they
didn't use the word semen. They used a much more
profane term for that, walking around all day with that
in her stomach. There is no filter. There is absolutely
(15:15):
no filter. Why is this a problem Because they're the
number one breakfast show in Sydney. Now they're in Melbourne,
They've got more than a million daily listeners. And these
discussions normalize sexualization and objectification. They were talking about being
on a dance floor and not knowing who was fingering you.
I'm sorry, I know I'm being really explicit, but our
kids are listening to this. They're the number one show.
(15:36):
This is not a podcast, This is not hidden behind
an age gate. This is content that is available for
everyone and what it does is it shifts expect that
this was between six am and eight am. It's blowing
my mind, and it shifts expectations and builds a belief
and changes subsequent behavior because people think this is what
people do, but it's normal if you go back to
(15:57):
the young woman that was talking to the journal's friend
of mine, but it's not. And this stuff matters so ultimately.
I mean, it sounds like I'm in a moral soapbox
right now, but parenting is a moral endeavor. And when
we remove morality from most of the institutions of our society,
including in too many cases our families, because of the
(16:17):
proliferation of pornography, because of the coarseness and degradation of
the community content, because of the breakdown of the institutions,
and because families just aren't talking about this sort of stuff.
This is the result. And people keep on saying, we
shouldn't have to teach our girls to stay safe, we
need to teach boys to stop hurting and being violent worse.
And that's true, that's absolutely true. But here's the thing.
(16:39):
The world is not perfect, and we actually need to
do both. Fewer perpetrators completely essential, absolutely needed, But we
can't tarnish your boys either, because there are some beautifully
good boys that are out there, and we interact with
many of them, and we're so grateful for them. There
was a school in Warnable a couple of years ago
that made all the boys stand up and apologize to
(16:59):
the girls for being boys because because of the terrible
things that boys do to girls, and that was appalling.
It was rightly condemned. But Kylie, this isn't going to
be quickly fixed at a national level. No level of
political involvement is really going to make this happen. It's
something that has to be fixed at an individual level
and at a family level. We've got the evidence and
we know that there are so many good men and
(17:20):
so many good boys. We've got to get to a
point where if you're asked if you would rather leave
your daughter with a man or a bear, you can
answer just as quickly as you can if you've given
the choice between a bear and a woman. Got to
be able to say a man and feel good about it.
The Happy Families podcast is produced by Justin Ruland from
Bridge Media. Craig Bruce is our executive producer. We hope
(17:44):
that this one's given you plenty of food for thought.
Thanks so much for listening. We'll be back tomorrow on
the podcast. Answering your questions from the podcast page at
happy families dot com dot au.
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