25 things 2025 taught us about work, wellbeing, & AI

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Are you at the end of twenty twenty five and
thinking to yourself, Wow, that was a lot and when
you sit down to reflect on it all, you realize
that you've actually wrapped up a lot of lessons. Well,
I definitely did, so my mate Shelley Johnson and I
decided to put it all down on paper twenty five
Things twenty twenty.

Speaker 2 (00:20):
Five taught us.

Speaker 1 (00:22):
This is a special crossover episode with Shelley's brilliant podcast
This is a work And if you don't know Shelley,
she's the co founder of hr consulting business bold Side,
and writes a regular column about work for The Sydney
Morning Herald and The Age. So Shelley and I both
showed up to this recording with printed lists, very old school,
and what followed was very fast, quite honest, and hopefully

(00:46):
genuinely useful for you. You will hear everything from what
embarrassment taught Shelley at a media wall to why I'm
convinced that energy is the most important KPI we need
to be thinking about. By the end of this episode,
I reckon you'll have your own list forming in your
head and you will definitely have plenty of learnings from
us that you can implement. In twenty twenty six, Welcome

(01:14):
to How I Work, a show about habits, rituals, and
strategies for optimizing your day. I'm your host, doctor Amantha Imber.

Speaker 3 (01:22):
All right, So twenty five things I learned in twenty
twenty five. We're going to move fast. The first one
I had was bring your own CEO energy. And sometimes, Amantha,
I don't know if this has happened to you, but
lately I've been in meetings where I think I have
watered down sometimes how I've shown up, or I've found

(01:46):
like myself withholding or like being really like apologetic, or
maybe going into people pleasing mode. And sometimes I'm like, no,
you know what, I just need to bring my own
CEO energy, even if I don't have that as a title.
I don't know if you've had that, but that's been
one of my learnings this year, to like channel a
bit of the type of confidence I would expect to

(02:09):
the CEO.

Speaker 1 (02:10):
Oh, it's funny, I have not thought about that at all.
That is not a learning for me, And it's funny.
Since I stepped back into the CEO role, I actually
really resist I never refer to myself as CEO. I'm like, oh,
I'm a founder or I run invent hum or whatever.
That's so funny. I feel like I'll be able to
relate to a lot of yours, but I can't relate

(02:30):
to that. I'd like to think I just kind of
just naturally just show up and people can take it
or leave it however I come.

Speaker 2 (02:37):
But maybe last year I would have given a different answer.

Speaker 4 (02:39):
I do.

Speaker 2 (02:40):
I do love that though, Go what's your tip? Number two?

Speaker 1 (02:45):
And my number one is And I've spent the year
twenty twenty five researching energy for a book that's coming
out in twenty twenty six, The Energy Game, and I
reckon energy is the new KPI. Any manager leader that
comes to me saying you need high performing like five performance,
we need a high performing team, and they're looking for
like leadership strategies, I always ask them what is the

(03:08):
energy of your team and your leaders like, because if
you have no energy, like, any number of leadership tips
are just not going to scratch the surface when you're
not showing up with a clear brain and you know,
just great energy.

Speaker 2 (03:22):
So that's a big one for me.

Speaker 3 (03:24):
I have so many follow up questions I know are
on a time time crunch. Can I just ask you,
because this links to my number three point, what does
energy look like?

Speaker 4 (03:36):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (03:36):
So energy for me, it looks like physical, emotional, and
cognitive energy. Most people lump it in one and they
go all and feeling really exhausted. But when they think
about it, when they actually analyze what's going on and
have that framework in mind, they can identify that. No,
my physical energy is okay, my cognitive energy is okay,
I'm not having brain fog, but my emotional energy is shot.

(03:58):
Like you know, I'm trying at the drop of a hat.
I feel like my resilience is next to nothing. And
sometimes it's a different kind of energy. It might be cognitive,
but emotionally they're fine. So I think it's really useful
to break it down into three energy buckets or accounts
if you like.

Speaker 3 (04:15):
And then if I'm thinking about those accounts, I'm like,
the withdrawals are happening, but sometimes we're not aware those
with drawls are happening. And then also I'm like, oh
my gosh, but how do we top them up? Yes,
and I might even touch on that in some of
my other points. Okay, well, do you know what that rolls?
Straight into my number three because this is what I wrote. Man,
and I've got my little paper you can hear. I've

(04:35):
got typed out little list.

Speaker 2 (04:36):
I got mine too.

Speaker 3 (04:37):
Oh good, look go we're so analogue with our printed
out things. Time management is a fallacy. Energy management is
way better.

Speaker 2 (04:45):
Oh you kidding me? Oh my god? I like I
write about that in the in the book.

Speaker 1 (04:51):
Yeah, it's like no amount of good time management will
fix your energy.

Speaker 4 (04:56):
I need to get this book. I'm when is this
book launch?

Speaker 2 (05:00):
July twenty twenty six?

Speaker 3 (05:01):
That is so far away. I don't have the energy
to wait for I need it. I'm like, I need
it now were recording. This is the end of the year.
And my energy, i will say, is pretty shot. So like,
I can't wait for this book, this book. Oh my gosh,
we're going to do a big launch on this pod
on this is work We're going to I cannot wait. Okay,
what is your number four?

Speaker 1 (05:21):
Number four is setting boundaries is an energy intervention, And
I don't think most people think about boundaries this way.
Like boundaries is, you know, I guess a very in
vogue thing to talk about and the importance of saying no.
But I would love it if people start thinking about
boundaries as a way to actually manage their energy, because
if you don't set good boundaries, if you're not saying

(05:43):
no enough, if you're not delegating enough, it's like you're
trying to fuel your energy bucket, but it's just got
leaks in it. And so yeah, boundaries super important. I
feel like I learned that the hard way in twenty
twenty four, where I had very limited boundaries, and twenty
twenty five I have had really firm boundaries. And I

(06:04):
feel like I'm one of the only people that I
know and I feel so smug saying this that I'm
not limping to the end of the finish line. I'm
like boundless energy right now, and we're right at the
end of November.

Speaker 4 (06:17):
I'm really jealous.

Speaker 2 (06:18):
Oh my god, I'm so smug. I hate myself.

Speaker 4 (06:20):
Anyway, whatever I love, I love it.

Speaker 3 (06:23):
Okay, here's one it's kind of linked, but one practice
I've been trying to do, particularly if we thinking about
your language of cognitive energy, has been double down, deprioritized, delete,
and so continually going back to my work because I
am the type of person that I often think more

(06:43):
is better, and I've learned that more is not better.

Speaker 4 (06:45):
Actually less is heaps better.

Speaker 3 (06:48):
As you're saying goes, less is more, so double down, deprioritized, elete,
just having a rhythm to come back to that model
and then looking at my work and going, Okay, how
do I Why am I finding it so hard to
delete anything? Like, because that's where I feel like I'm
not I'm struggling to think of what to delete. I
can deprioritize stuff, but I'm still in my mind like
I'm going to hold that in my mind for a

(07:09):
period of time and I will come back to it.
I'm like, no, I just need to be able to
move stuff to that delete category.

Speaker 2 (07:15):
Yes.

Speaker 1 (07:16):
Yeah, it's so hard to let go of things, isn't it.
I feel like a strategy that works for me is
having a two don't list and at the end of
every month just going what are the things that really
sucked my energy and then forming a rule around them, like,
you know, I don't do meetings before eleven am, or
I don't see this particular friend or this you know,

(07:40):
acquaintance because whenever I see them, they just drain my energy.
So I think it's really good to like do whatever
reset at the start of every month.

Speaker 2 (07:48):
Okay, this is.

Speaker 3 (07:48):
My I'd love to say I feel like seeing that
list though, would be so funny. But to be like,
if there's a name on there, you're like, I.

Speaker 4 (07:54):
Do see you.

Speaker 3 (07:55):
I just see you at four pm. That's my time
for you, exactly.

Speaker 1 (08:00):
Okay, this is my last energy one. And then we're like,
I've tried to theme my tips. I think we're up
to tip number six. I'm on the even numbers, you're
on the odd numbers. So okay, rest is a skill,
not the absence of work, and I think this is
a big mistake that people make where they go, well,
I'm not working, I'm slumped on the couch watching Netflix,

(08:24):
and so therefore I am resting right now. But that
is what I call fake rest because it's not rejuvenating,
it's not recharging, it's simply the absence of work. And
so the more people can engage in genuinely RESTful and
restorative activity is the more recharged they're going to feel

(08:46):
the next day.

Speaker 2 (08:46):
And that's certainly been true for me.

Speaker 3 (08:48):
Okay, I again, we need to do another pod on
rest is a skill, like just in itself, because I
think people are really not good at that I'm just
like thinking, I'm really not good at.

Speaker 4 (08:59):
That number seven.

Speaker 3 (09:03):
Oh, this was such a big learning for me this year.
Embarrassment is good for your ego. Oh tell me about that.
Was there an experience you had, Oh, there was an experience.
So I was Ametha. I was speaking at this event, big,
big event. I was like, the keynote got up. I
thought I did really well. I was like, I killed it.
I crushed it, like I absolutely did my best work.

(09:24):
I hoped down and at the end of the night,
there was like the photo wall, the media wall, and
they were like getting photos. And a guy comes up
to me and he's like, oh, hey, we're just here.
We would love to get a photo. And I was
like yeah, sure, like sweet, So I walk over. There's
twelve of them, like a big grip. I stand at
them in this group and they're like, oh no, sorry,

(09:46):
like we.

Speaker 4 (09:46):
Don't want you to we just wanted you to take
the photo. And I was like.

Speaker 3 (09:54):
I'm going to die now, like I'm actually going to
sink into the floor. But it just it was so
funny because I often think your best work, like some
of your worst work can come after your best work,
and vice versa. Some of your best work can come
after your worst work. And I kind of think about
the connection. I'm like, you know, what, embarrassment is actually
good if you actually step into it. I think anytime
you're doing something challenging, you're going to be embarrassed. But

(10:17):
just embrace it, I'm like. And so then I just
I ended up laughing about it so quickly, and we
wrote about it in Sidney Morning Herald because I'm like, actually,
embarrassment's fine as long as you can laugh at yourself
and go, hey, this is good for my ego. So
that was one of my big learnings this year.

Speaker 2 (10:32):
Oh my gosh, that reminds me of a time. This
is many years ago.

Speaker 1 (10:35):
I was doing a keynote at this really big breakfast
event for one of the banks, and the customers about
like five hundred people in a ballroom style breakfast event.
And I start to walk on stage. So I think
I was wearing backing stocks or some random footwear, and
I tripped up on stage. Like, as I'm walking up

(10:56):
the stairs to do my keynote, I trip, one of
my shoes come off. I'm like, oh, fuck, was shoe gone?
It was anyway, I was so mortified. I think I
tried to make a joke. I can't remember if people laugh.
But then I just got on with it. And whenever
I'm walking on stage three keynote now and there's stairs
to go up, I always think of that memory and

(11:17):
I walk really carefully, and it will.

Speaker 4 (11:19):
Haunt you until your final days. You are just.

Speaker 3 (11:25):
Oh my god, the burks Like it's a bit of
a Cinderella moment. I like, just you know, the burks
come off and You're like, here I am, I'm just
gonna be barefoot. Yeah, I'm just gonna ground myself on
stage exactly.

Speaker 2 (11:35):
But the thing is, only one shoe came off, and
I'm like, oh god, what do I do? What do
I do?

Speaker 1 (11:39):
Do it?

Speaker 2 (11:39):
What could have taken them both off? Anyway? Okay?

Speaker 1 (11:44):
Number eight? Number eight, I think we're up to okay.
So yeah, So look, a lot of this year for
me has been in the world of jen Ai.

Speaker 2 (11:54):
It's been a huge focus.

Speaker 1 (11:55):
I think that the like one of the fundamental things
that I think about is that jen Ai is now
your coworker. It's not a tool, and for me, like
it's a coworker that's always sitting next to me. Something
I've heard with a lot of guests that I've had
on how I work where we talk about AI is
that they will you know, let's just say, I think

(12:16):
a lot of people now have a two monitor setup.
I feel like that became a thing during COVID. One
of their monitors will be dedicated to AI. Heard this
from a few people. One was a futurist Bob Johnson,
And I kind of like that because for those that
are not in the habit of using AI very frequently
to either improve productivity or augment your thinking, I think

(12:40):
they're sort of, you know, the two biggest ways we
can use AI.

Speaker 2 (12:44):
It just kind of acts as.

Speaker 1 (12:45):
A visualminded to go, Hey, I've got this coworker sitting
next to me at all times.

Speaker 2 (12:50):
I don't have to worry about interrupting them. They're never
in a meeting, They're always available for me and.

Speaker 3 (12:56):
For me like it's just become such an important part
of my team. The other thing I love that Inventium
does so well in the way that you train people
in gen AI is I've heard you talk about it
as you are now a manager of AI.

Speaker 1 (13:14):
One hundred percent. Yes, we are all managers, regardless of
what your title is and you are managing AI like
in the same way. And this is one of the
things that really bugs me. And I mean just the
amount of AI slop or workslop or whatever we want
to call it that is out there. I mean, we're
having a winge about LinkedIn before we started recording, and

(13:36):
I mean, god, it's all over that. But even just
like in emails that we're getting from clients or coworkers
or whoever, and reports that we're getting, I mean, it's
just it really bugs me because it's such a big
time waster if you are delegating to AI and not
treating it like a direct report, where you would delegate
something to a direct report, but you would check over it, particularly,

(13:58):
you know, if they've never done this task. But a
lot of people are not checking over the work that
AI does, and they're not prompting it to be be
more succinct because AI is not necessarily doing that. They
you know that they're using sort of flowery language and
way too many adjectives and we're and I just find

(14:18):
that so disrespectful when we're delegating to AI, but we're
not actually checking its work just like we would if
we were managing them.

Speaker 4 (14:24):
Yeah, I love.

Speaker 3 (14:25):
Also, he's just so easy to spot and just as
soon as I see it, actually lowers your credibility so
much I think, mm hmmmm hmm. Okay, my next one,
number nine. Oh, where am I going to go with this? Okay,
this one? Connection is better than charisma.

Speaker 4 (14:41):
I've been. We did this big like.

Speaker 3 (14:44):
Pod earlier in the year, around like this whole thing
out there and on Instagram, on socials, pushing become more charismatic,
become more charismatic. I'm just like, no, just become better
at connecting with people, Like I just find.

Speaker 4 (15:03):
The charisma stuff.

Speaker 3 (15:04):
Charisma is all about me and connection is about you.
So if I want to be more influential or charismatic,
pursuing charisma in and of itself is actually, I think,
the wrong way.

Speaker 4 (15:16):
To go about it. It's like, actually, just get.

Speaker 3 (15:18):
Better at reading the room, at connecting genuinely with people.

Speaker 4 (15:23):
And that to me, I just it bothers me.

Speaker 3 (15:25):
Amanth When people are like banging on about becoming more charismatic,
I might I just thinking, if you're outa directed and
outer focused, you will naturally be that as an outcome,
But don't pursue that as an outcome in and of itself.

Speaker 1 (15:40):
It's funny when I hear When I hear the word charisma,
my mind goes in two ways. I think, oh, well,
that's something that you're born with and you can't control,
and so that's really frustrating. If you feel like you're
not a naturally charismatic person, then that feels like really
annoying advice. But then if you go, okay, well how
do I learn charisma? To me, when I think of

(16:01):
learning to be more charismatic, I feel like, ah, but
am I still going to be myself? It feels a
little bit inauthentic. I'm gonna hate the word authenticity, but
it feels a bit inauthentic to try to be charismatic.
So I think I have a natural repulsion from that word.
So I like that idea of prioritizing connection because we

(16:22):
can all get better at how we connect with people.

Speaker 2 (16:25):
Yeah, one hundred percent. Okay, are we up to tip
number ten?

Speaker 4 (16:31):
Ten?

Speaker 2 (16:31):
Okay? Amazing?

Speaker 1 (16:32):
Okay, So this has really changed the way that I
work when I'm at my computer, And this lesson is
that speaking is faster than typing. Now, this is not
earth shattering, because I think we could all we all
know that intuitively, but the software that's available now means

(16:55):
that instead of typing things and taking more time, we
can be far more efficient if we speak it out.
And so the software that that has now become very
much a daily, if not hourly habit. I mean I
would use this software every hour, I think at least
a few times, is whisper flow. So we'll put a
link to that in the show notes. So it's spelt
wispr and then flow. And how it works is that

(17:20):
you install the software, you set up a shortcut. So
for me, when I press the function key on my keyboard,
my computer automatically listens to my voice and then transcribes
what I'm saying. And what's really cool about whisper flow,
which is in contrast to other software out there, is
that it automatically fixes up any errors. Like if I say, Hey, Shelley,

(17:44):
it's great to chat, I mean, it was great to
see you today, it will just write, hey Shelley, it
was great to see you today. And also it adds
in punctuation as well. My only complaint is that sometimes
it americanizes words, so you still have to proofread the
whole thing. But I'm much for it and particularly in
the age of AI slop, where a lot of emails
that we're now receiving are clearly just written by AI

(18:07):
without a human really involved much at all. I like
it because I generally don't use AI to write emails
unless it's something that requires quite a bit of structuring
and architecting. I will generally speak out my emails. They
feel and sound more human, and it's also super quick
for me to talk it out. So it's just a

(18:27):
game changer. And the other thing about the software is
it works across whatever software you're in. So if I'm
in Outlook, or if I'm you know, in a browser
in Chrome or Brave, or you know, want a type
of comment to a LinkedIn post, it just it follows
me wherever I am.

Speaker 2 (18:44):
I just had to hit the function key.

Speaker 3 (18:48):
I have written that down whisper flow, and I'm like,
immediately after this, I'll be like, I'm downloaded it. I'm
ready to go amazing. Okay, number eleven, HM, this is
a big one for me this year. Psychological safety is
not the same as psychological comfort, and people are weaponizing

(19:08):
psychological safety at work, and they're saying as soon as
the conversation gets tough. This isn't psycho psychologically safe. We've
got to move past that.

Speaker 4 (19:17):
And I think like.

Speaker 3 (19:20):
Amy Edmondson's work in psychological safety was this idea that
the most psychologically safe teams have the most honest, real
tough conversations, but they do it in a way that's
infused with health and kindness and care. They're not brutal.
But I think where we've gone we've almost overplayed psychological
safety at times where we're starting to say, well, as

(19:43):
soon as something becomes difficult, well it's not safe. And
I think I liken it to being on a plane.
I can be uncomfortable on a plane and still be safe.
And if you're on Jet Star and someone reclines their chair,
you are uncomfortable. I'm just uncomfortable, but I'm still safe.
Plain travel is the safest form of travel. Just because

(20:05):
I'm uncomfortable don't mean I'm unsafe. And I think we
really need to start to shift some of the narrative
around psychological safety. And yes, organizations have to do a
heap of work to make sure that there's trust, and
I'm not devaluing that that's absolutely crucial, but let's also
be conscious that discomfort doesn't equal a lack of safety.

Speaker 1 (20:27):
Yeah, I like that a lot, and I reckon a
lot of teams and a lot of leaders confuse that
has that been your experience, I'm definitely see.

Speaker 3 (20:36):
It thrown around a lot, where like people just tap
out of a meeting like emotionally and cognitively or still
be there, but they're like not safe, and it's like no, No,
lean into that process, Like, yes, we need to get
great at having tough conversations, but we also need to
be okay with discomfort.

Speaker 4 (20:53):
It's how we grow.

Speaker 3 (20:54):
So that's been a big ranty thing that I've talked
about a lot this year and enjoyed talking about.

Speaker 1 (21:01):
You know what I might add in there, So let's
go number twelve. This wasn't one that I'd prepared, but
I also don't know if I prepared the right number.
I'm like, I think it might be one or two shots,
So let's go with this. So on the topic of
psych safety, I think that something like when I think
about the Inventium team and twenty twenty four was not

(21:24):
a great year for psych safety being high across the board.
It was high for some people but not others. Twenty
twenty five completely changed. And I think one process that
we have found really helpful as a team is trying to,
where possible have a post mortem for projects or processes

(21:45):
that actually felt quite difficult and where at least some
of us feel like we could have done it better.

Speaker 2 (21:52):
So we had so we had, you know.

Speaker 1 (21:54):
One one process that we were like trying, we'd try
to innovate it like an internal process, and it just
we really didn't nail it. And most of us were
involved in this particular process, and so we spent a
good couple of hours together. We did this face to face,
just kind of working through and the main person who

(22:17):
was experiencing the process brought a lot of their learnings
and we all listened, and it was also quite useful.
We had an AI transcription on as well, just so
we don't have to take copious notes and stuff during
the conversation and we can all be present and then
also use that AI like transcript to help generate a summary,

(22:39):
just generate some objective action points that we might have missed.
And I think kind of knowing that we booked that
in the diary helped us all go okay, well instead
of getting blamey, let's just get really reflective and let's
just lock in what are a few lessons that we
can take from this and do it better the next

(22:59):
time we have to this process. So big fan of
post mortems. I know that they're not new or groundbreaking,
but I think when it comes to site safety, it
can really help a lot.

Speaker 3 (23:08):
And then I might go in then to flow on
from that to number thirteen is it? And I think
it really relates to exactly what you've just said. Whenever
there's any tension or conflict on a team, or you
can even call it disagreement, make it about the problem,
not the person. And I think, like, how do we
make any form of conflict or problems, any form of conflict, tension,

(23:31):
disagreement about the problem, not the person, Because I think,
as you say, when we get into the blaming blame,
blame tends to be about a we're externally externalizing that
problem to someone else, whereas if we look at it
and we go, you know what, let's just make it
about this problem. It's like that Liz and Molly cartoon.
It's really beautiful that says, instead of you versus me,

(23:55):
it's you and me versus the problem.

Speaker 4 (23:58):
And they hold hands.

Speaker 3 (24:00):
Holding hands is probably discouraged if you're in a work context, but.

Speaker 4 (24:05):
You know, whatever you want to do.

Speaker 1 (24:11):
Okay, don't go away, because coming up next we go
through lessons fourteen to twenty five, and we'll be sharing
some of the most important habits and ideas that we
picked up in twenty twenty five, along with two of
my favorite hacks for keeping a good posture. Okay, let

(24:32):
me follow with one other thing. And I think this
is well, it's kind of relates to psych safety but
also innovation. And I heard this recently with a guest
I had on How I Work called Elan Lee, and
he's the co creator of Exploding Kittens, and shall do
you know Exploding Kittens the game? No, oh man, you're

(24:53):
missing out and your kids are missing out as well.

Speaker 2 (24:56):
So it is. It was, actually it was so.

Speaker 1 (25:00):
Elan created it with oh my god, I'm forgetting his name,
Matt Oh I got to can't remember, sent him who
created the Oatmeal cartoon, which a lot of people are
familiar with that, And so they got together they created
this card game called Exploding Kittens. They put it up
on Kickstarter. I think it was the most successful Kickstarter
campaign ever. This is ten years ago, raised nine million

(25:22):
dollars in thirty days, two hundred and twenty thousand backers,
and it's turned into like a massive global game company.
So they've now got like, I don't know, over fifty games.
They're so good where such fans in my family. And
I was asking Elan about, like how do they come
up with ideas for new games? I mean the like
this is just like a creativity like factory, I feel like.

(25:46):
And one of Elon's thoughts is that the idea of yes,
and which is a very common advice when people are
talking about brainstorming, like when someone says an idea, go yes,
and we could also do this, and like just build
on ideas no matter how shit they are, because that's
what we should do. And it comes from improv and like,
you know, it's great in an improv setting. But why

(26:09):
he hates it for brainstorming is that it means that
if you're getting together, like they have quarterly design retreats
where they'll spend a day or two just thinking of
ideas for new games. He said, if we do yes,
and it means that we only get to explore a
handful of ideas because we're diving really deep. But he
said where the great quality and where the great ideas

(26:29):
come from is when you can have a large amount
of quantity, like when we can get through thousands of
different ideas and so instead of yes, and they're actually
really quick to kill ideas. And Elon as a leader,
role models this. So when they get new people in
on the team, he's really quick to show he just
has no ego. If one of his ideas is killed,

(26:50):
he's like, great, let's move on to the next one.
And I think that requires a large amount of psych safety.
But Elon really lives this by just not having emotional
attachment to any idea. And you know, sure people can
fight to go hey, let's not kill it yet, but
the default is to kill unless everyone you know is
feels like there's a spark there.

Speaker 3 (27:14):
That's actually I'm just processing that around quantity because we
hear so much about quality and I'm just thinking about
that going and the link between creativity and.

Speaker 4 (27:25):
I kind of think about it.

Speaker 3 (27:26):
It makes me think about like divergent thinking design thinking
processes of like getting more and more ideas on the
table in the early stages. So thank you for sharing that.
That's really super helpful, and I've also written down exploding kittens.

Speaker 4 (27:38):
For the kids.

Speaker 3 (27:40):
It just it kind of then signaled on for number
fifteen of one of mine, which I'd love to hear
your thoughts on because this has just been a vibe
and you've been doing so much research in this space,
so I'd love to love to know. But one of
mine was margin is the precursor to creativity? How do
you have margin in your schedule and when you're so

(28:01):
busy in the weeds And for both of us as
like people who pretty creative, I love having the space
for creativity. But I'm like, if I have no margin,
I've just tapped out. I can't have those beautiful moments
of like ideas, and I actually have missed that this year.
I feel like I haven't had it, and it's been

(28:22):
a thing where I look at twenty twenty six, I'm like,
I need margin, Like I need margin because that's the
thing that helps me with the creativity and that's the
thing that actually gives me the most energy in my work.

Speaker 4 (28:33):
But tell me if I'm way.

Speaker 3 (28:34):
Off there, because that's been a it's more being a
vibe than anything research based.

Speaker 1 (28:39):
Oh gosh, yeah, Like there's so much a research around that,
and I also hear it just firsthand. Again, like I
think about stories that I've heard on how I work.
I think about a couple of people, Darren Murph who
he used to be at git Lab and he really
sort of led their charge into being a remote first company,

(29:00):
and you know how they organized around that. And also
Nicky spa shot as well, I think shared this with me.
She'sed to be Sea of Unilever in Australia and New
Zealand and they talk about this idea of don't be
booked at one hundred percent and I like that because
it's really visual if you look at your diary and
I'm kind of glancing to the side looking at my

(29:22):
diary and I know that it's not going to be
a great week for creativity if I am one hundred
percent booked.

Speaker 2 (29:29):
And also it allows for no like serendipity in at all.

Speaker 1 (29:34):
And it also means if if like she hits the
fan or if a crisis happens, you're like your day
is shot, and probably anyone else that was tightly packed
into your schedule they're going to be affected as well.
So I always try to make sure that I've got
quite a bit of white space in my diary for
just things to pop up that I'm like, I've really

(29:56):
got the energy to you know, work on copy for
this particular piece for example, or to just go for
a walk and ponder this new product that I've been
noodling over. So I think it's so important, and you know,
busyness and being one hundred percent booked like that is
not a good thing.

Speaker 3 (30:17):
I also visualize you, Amantha, on your walks being like
I got this idea, and you're talking a little hard
out to chat your et voice mode like.

Speaker 2 (30:25):
All the time, all the time.

Speaker 1 (30:27):
And interestingly, Elan Lee, who I mentioned before, he told
me about a ritual that he has with AI where
every morning he goes for a walk and he's got
a particular prompt that he puts in that basically prompts
the AI to just ask him questions but give him
no input because he wants all the input to be
from him, but he wants the AI to draw it

(30:48):
out of him. And so you'll go for a walk
and he'll have a chat with AI every morning. I
had a similar ritual when I was in I think
that like, so I spent seven months of this year
working on the manuscript for the Energy game, and there
were particular months in that.

Speaker 2 (31:09):
Process where it involves a lot.

Speaker 1 (31:11):
Of creative thinking, a lot of problems solving, and almost
every day during that period of time, I would go
for a walk and I would have a chat to
whichever AI tool I was using at the time, and
I would just I would just chat and I would problem.

Speaker 2 (31:29):
Solve and I would get its view on things.

Speaker 1 (31:31):
I would prompt it to be different personas of people
that I really respected in, you know, like fields of
game design or organizational psychology or other fields that were relevant,
and it was just it was it was so powerful.
And then I would have that whole transcript of the
conversation with me when I got back to my computer,
and then I could then ask questions of it, get

(31:53):
a summary, and I just think my thinking was so
much richer and so more drawn out in a really
good way because of that workflow.

Speaker 3 (32:02):
I've gotten so much from the work you've done around
how I can use AI day to day. Seriously, Like
I went on a walk this morning and just did
my little voice mode and I walked and I got
so much clarity in I'm like, that's thanks just the
work that you have been doing inventing that's really practically
helped me in my day to day life, which does
give me margin right to think it does?

Speaker 4 (32:21):
It does.

Speaker 2 (32:22):
It's so funny. This morning I drove to the gym.

Speaker 1 (32:24):
It was pretty early, and you know, like when you're
lying in bed and you just kind of like you're
thinking of things, You're like, oh, I need to do that,
and then I've got ideas for that, and then I think.
I don't know if this is because I'm a writer
or maybe everyone does it, but I often find myself
when I've got a writing task to do, like whether
it's for a newsletter or you know, a section in
the book or something like that, I will often write

(32:46):
in my head. I'll spend quite a lot of time
in bed just writing in my head. And it's also
it's a bit annoying because then I'll forget things. But
this morning, on the way to the gym, I just
put on chat TPT on voice mode, and I basically
just talked out all the ideas that I could remember,
because you know, it was like fifteen minutes prior that
I was lying in bed thinking of this, and.

Speaker 2 (33:06):
I haven't done that too often.

Speaker 1 (33:07):
But I'm like, well, that feels like a good workflow,
just to capture those early morning thoughts when you don't
have pen and paper.

Speaker 3 (33:13):
Also, I've been saying, do not interrupt me until I finished,
and I say.

Speaker 2 (33:18):
Yes, yes, oh you got to say that.

Speaker 3 (33:21):
Yeah, okay, so I think we're up to your night
sixteen sixteen Okay, So so I I think that and
oh my god, I just sorry, just I had this
memory where this is back in I think twenty eighteen, and.

Speaker 1 (33:40):
I was there are a couple of years in my
life where I got to go to like the main
ted in Vancouver, and one of the people I met
was it was one of the co writers of I
think it was Avenue Q.

Speaker 4 (33:57):
Was that?

Speaker 1 (33:58):
Like, I think I'm pretty sure it was that, and
it's one of my favorite musicals. And I asked this guy, like,
what's your number one tip for.

Speaker 2 (34:10):
Creative thinking?

Speaker 1 (34:11):
I said, and he said, a deadline like that, nothing
beats creativity and actual output than a deadline. And I
feel like this year and I think whenever I'm on
a book deadline, because.

Speaker 2 (34:24):
It's quite I kind of look back and I'm like,
how did I do that?

Speaker 1 (34:27):
Was I was running a business. I, you know, was
doing a podcast and I was also writing.

Speaker 4 (34:35):
It.

Speaker 1 (34:35):
Blowed it out to about an eighty thousand word manuscript,
but then edited back down to a sixty five thousand
word manuscript and all the research, so much research was involved,
and I'm like, can do I actually get that done?
But I got it done, and it's a deadline. It's
a deadline, and I'm hyper conscientious. That is a personality
trait I was born with, and I never want to
let down my publishers like that is just the most

(34:56):
motivating thing for me. And I think even with small
all the projects, I just think nothing beats productivity more
than a deadline.

Speaker 3 (35:06):
I have written that down that I need to hear
that today. I also want to understand, just out of
my own curiosity, what was the timeline for the book?

Speaker 4 (35:16):
Was it? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (35:17):
I it was originally I think six months or five
and a half months by the time the contract was signed.
But then I pushed back and I said, no, I
need a bit more time, and I think they.

Speaker 2 (35:30):
Thought I could do that because the health habit.

Speaker 1 (35:32):
I did it in five months, which was really really tight,
but they wanted to get it out for a January
release because of you know, New Year, New Year kind
of theme. But with this one, I thought, I just
I kind of need more time, Like I've just got
so much that I need to research for this book.
And so yeah, seven months was what it was.

Speaker 3 (35:54):
Well tech days, Sorry, that was just my own tell
me that deadline.

Speaker 4 (36:01):
Okay, number seventeen.

Speaker 2 (36:04):
How much?

Speaker 4 (36:06):
Where am I going to take this one?

Speaker 3 (36:07):
I think, Oh, this is something from our conversation way back.
I can't remember when we did this, but big learning,
and it's been going on for a while. But is
vulnerability isn't the same as oversharing? And so working out
and we had that really good conversation that was pretty vulnerable.

Speaker 2 (36:28):
Yeah, yeah, and I.

Speaker 3 (36:29):
Think we dug into Okay, well what is the difference
between vulnerability and oversharing? And the line between those two
things can be very blurred, and so working that out
and going vulnerability isn't emotional hijacking whereas oversharing can be
emotionally hijacking to people, so I think, and also oversharing

(36:51):
can lower trust. So I've been that's been something I've
been processing a lot this year. So that would be
my number seventeen.

Speaker 2 (36:57):
I like that.

Speaker 1 (37:00):
I thought about that a lot too since that conversation,
which was I want to say six months ago or
something like that.

Speaker 2 (37:07):
I don't know who the year got come.

Speaker 4 (37:09):
It was a blur.

Speaker 2 (37:10):
And I thought.

Speaker 1 (37:11):
About that when I actually had one of my teammates,
Ali Solly, on the podcast to unpack the year of
twenty twenty four, which was just like an objectively shit
year for Inventium, and she and I were talking about
how I had built trust with her because we hadn't

(37:33):
had a lot to do with each other until gosh,
like I wasn't even like her manager until like December
November December last year, so a year ago. And what
she did in and this was in August twenty twenty four,

(37:53):
She's accredited in this particular well being survey and it
was something that we were thinking about bringing on to
invent Him and you know, maybe like licensing it or
something like that, and so I wanted to try it.

Speaker 2 (38:04):
I wanted to be a guinea pig. I did it.

Speaker 1 (38:06):
It's it's quite it goes into quite personal information in
terms of it's work well being, but it's personal well being.

Speaker 2 (38:11):
And Ali then did the debrief with me, and I
remember at the time going how.

Speaker 1 (38:17):
Much is appropriate for me to share, because you know,
it was it was eight months into just the you know,
a year of burnout and you know a lot of
a lot of you know, challenges, and I remember at
the time, I just thought, well, you know, the debrief
isn't going to be helpful if I'm not honest. And
I don't think I overshared, but but I do think, oh,
that's that sometimes can be a fine line. And she

(38:38):
spoke about that moment as the first stepping stone where
she really felt trust with me because I chose to
share things that were quite personal. And I thought of
that conversation that you and I had, and I think
it's kind of Look, it's easy to say, but I
also think, how do you know when you've gone into

(38:59):
oversh sharing versus just being vulnerable?

Speaker 4 (39:03):
Yeah, how do you know?

Speaker 2 (39:05):
How do you know?

Speaker 4 (39:06):
Do you know?

Speaker 2 (39:06):
What do you think about that one?

Speaker 4 (39:09):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (39:09):
I think usually when it's oversharing, I think there's a
couple of things at play. Number One, Sometimes I think
it evolves something more than just you. So if you're
oversharing and you're actually in some capacity either undermining trust
of someone else, so you're sharing something that's not actually

(39:29):
with it like you're undermining confidence or confidentiality of someone else.

Speaker 4 (39:33):
So I think there's an element of that.

Speaker 3 (39:34):
The other thing is when you're processing something in a
way that I think is.

Speaker 4 (39:44):
And a psychologist told me this.

Speaker 3 (39:46):
Actually I've got it from him, but he used the
term emotional hijacking, and that helped me when he's like,
oversharing has an element of it can be emotionally hijacking.
So I don't think vulnerability ever feels like that. Vulnerability
feels like, oh I understand you better. That's the gift
of vulnerability. It's like, oh, I understand that about you,

(40:06):
and I love like I know how Brene Brown defines
vulnerability is emotional exposure, so it's usually about you, whereas
I think oversharing tends to have elements of you wanting
something from someone. There's maybe sometimes other objectives. You may
be bringing other people's personal stuff into the mix, and
that's where that emotional hijacking comes in, because the person

(40:28):
on the receiving end of that is like, what do
I do with this? There's a level of overwhelm. So
I think there's I mean, and I guess it goes
to what you said. It's hard to know the difference.
I think sometimes we learn by error. We go afterwards.
We feel like after you've overshared, you can feel like,
oh shit, I don't know if I should have said that,
But after you've been vulnerable, you're like, I feel relief

(40:51):
and I feel connection, very different feelings after the fact.
So I think that almost becomes a data point in
and of itself that I take that away and I'm like, Okay, no,
I probably stepped over the line there versus this other time.
I felt like there's this genuine connection and trust, as
you say, because of that, I.

Speaker 1 (41:10):
Like that that it's about how you walk away feeling
that can be a good indication of whether you whether
you got it right.

Speaker 4 (41:18):
I like that, where do you cross the line or not?
Are we up to eight?

Speaker 2 (41:23):
We are eighteen eighteen? Is that right?

Speaker 4 (41:25):
I think we're I think we're eighteen.

Speaker 2 (41:26):
Okay, So it's me no, no, no, I'm the even.

Speaker 4 (41:31):
Oh I'm the odd n.

Speaker 3 (41:34):
I'm like, it's my turn again. I've got more to say.
I'd like to overshoot it out.

Speaker 1 (41:41):
I'd like to be even and odd numbers, Thank you
very much, Okay, okay, all right, so eighteen gosh, I
don't I'm just trying to think what the bigger learning.
When I was writing down learning is just having a
bit of a brain dump with myself. I wrote this
because it's an important lesson for me, but I'm just
trying to think what's the bigger learning?

Speaker 2 (41:59):
But we can try to that.

Speaker 1 (42:00):
So so a little while ago, I was a finalist
in these awards for AI Consultant of the Year and and.

Speaker 2 (42:09):
It was like it was really competitive.

Speaker 1 (42:11):
There were ten finalists, uh neo, and I flew up
to Sydney for the awards night.

Speaker 2 (42:17):
I just had no chance of winning.

Speaker 1 (42:20):
But we thought, oh, look, let's go and we'll get
some good photos for the socials and that and that
and and you know, we'll do some meetings and stuff
while we're up there. And I remember in the morning
I thought, like on the plane, like should I prepare
a speech? And then I thought, no, that feels so
arrogant a man that like, how dare you even entertain

(42:42):
the thought that you could win this award? Like you
you're you're you're not worthy. And so I remember I
had like a quick five minute conversation with chat GPT
and you know, and just tried to work on something.
But of course I didn't memorize anything because I just
sort of put it out of my head. I almost
did it tokenistically just to go I will, at least
you've done like a little bit of prep. But I

(43:03):
hadn't because nothing actually sunk into my brain. And then
on the night I ended up winning, which was like
just the most massive shock.

Speaker 2 (43:12):
It was.

Speaker 1 (43:13):
It genuinely was. And I don't say that to be modest.
I really thought I had no chance because I am
someone that comes to things prepared. I'm very diligent, as
I mentioned, very conscientious, and it's unlike me to not
be prepared, but I but I didn't. And so I
think for me, the lesson that I took from that
is write a fucking speech, Amantha, Because I got up

(43:33):
there and like the you know, and I, you know,
thanks some people, But then, you know, I didn't say
things that I would have wanted to say, you know,
in front of a room of like four hundred people,
and I kind of the moment was great, but I
also really regretted the fact that I didn't just go, well,
just write it, like just write it, and you know,

(43:58):
and yeah, I don't know what the bigger learning is
there but it.

Speaker 2 (44:03):
Was a real It was a lesson for me.

Speaker 3 (44:06):
What I'm curious like around that for you if it
was when you're thinking about, oh, there's just no way
we could win. What that signals for you? Like what
like as you think of that, is it? Yeah, I'm

(44:27):
just I'm interested when you think about that question there's
just no way we can win or there's no way.
That's so I'm not even entertaining that. Is that limiting belief?
Is that like what is that for you? Or is
it just more like humility? Like I don't know, Like
what do you think?

Speaker 4 (44:42):
I think?

Speaker 1 (44:45):
I just don't think I genuinely didn't deserve it. Like
I looked at the other fire loss, so I'm like,
you guys know so much more than me.

Speaker 2 (44:56):
It was generally men. You guys, ah, I think there
are a couple of other women.

Speaker 1 (45:00):
And I thought like yeah, sure, Like I think I am.
I can recognize that I'm a really good advocate for
making AI accessible through through the different platforms that I have,
and I think just through the way my brain works,
I'm good at making I think complex things practical. That's
like a bit of a superpower. But I don't like

(45:21):
I look at the work that Neo that heads up
our AI programs that Inventium does, and he lives and
breathes AI every single day. I just, you know, he
would have been so much more worthy than me. And yeah,
so I think I just I didn't feel worthy of it.
And therefore I thought, well, this feels really self indulgent

(45:45):
to actually prepare and write a speech.

Speaker 3 (45:49):
Oh that's like I mean that I didn't feel worthy
of it.

Speaker 4 (45:55):
I reckon is there's something in that.

Speaker 2 (45:57):
There's a therapy session in that.

Speaker 3 (46:00):
Yeah, a bit, but like, do you know it's because
it's actually like made me remember one of the pods
that I felt and if I tack on to the
back of this, so you're number eighteen to number nineteen,
which kind of links in.

Speaker 4 (46:16):
The podcast.

Speaker 3 (46:18):
I probably found most like hard hitting for me. This
year that we did was with Don Price, our mutual friend,
and he said to me, Shelle, it was such a
I nearly cried on the episode. I was like I
had to take a moment. I was like, oh, yeah, yeah,
this is so hectic. And he's like, I think your

(46:38):
big challenge is worthiness. He's like, I don't think you
think you're worthy. And so when you say I didn't
feel worthy of deserving it. He had said, Shell, sometimes
I think you're playing small because you don't think you're worthy.

Speaker 4 (46:53):
And I was like, holy shit.

Speaker 3 (46:56):
I just like he's just like it hits such a
because I felt there was so much truth to what
he was saying.

Speaker 4 (47:02):
And he's like.

Speaker 3 (47:05):
He was saying, play big, stop playing small, like that
you have to tackle this issue of worthiness and can
and seeing yourself as worthy. And I remember, like, so
we were recording that party in a studio with a
whole bunch of people there. There was like three people
watching while we were recording it, and I asked Goot

(47:27):
on my team. He's like, I could tell you were
about to cry. And I was like, hold it together,
hold it together, because I didn't want to, you know,
overshare on that episode.

Speaker 4 (47:38):
But like it was.

Speaker 3 (47:40):
Just hearing you say that I didn't feel like worthy
of deserving that. And then you get it. And so
people out there see you as worthy. But if you
don't see yourself as worthy, how does that actually impact
the way you show up, the way you take risks
in your career, the way you lead your business. And
for me, I've had to wrestle through that that's been
a big thing this year. And yeah, so confronting the

(48:06):
playing big and knowing you're worthy.

Speaker 2 (48:11):
Wow, that's huge, isn't it.

Speaker 1 (48:13):
It's funny because my experience of you is that you
just seem so comfortable in your own skin.

Speaker 2 (48:19):
And isn't that funny?

Speaker 4 (48:22):
I knows it's weird, isn't it? Anyway?

Speaker 2 (48:25):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (48:25):
Wow, Okay, we're twenty twenty twenty okay, and I'm just
because I've got three more and I'm like, oh, do
I just finish? I'm going to finish with like a
couple of just small, practical, slightly frivolous but important ones.

Speaker 2 (48:40):
So I'll go I'll go with this one as twenty. Okay.

Speaker 1 (48:44):
So, something that I learned from the transformation that Inventium
did from twenty twenty four to twenty twenty five is that,
like often and maybe this is a small business thing,
it's probably a small business thing, but equally applies to teams,
I think, because I think teams have their own culture.
Actually hard for like an organization to have a culture
that's just identical across all the teams. But for me,

(49:07):
and I've learned this lesson a couple of times with
Inventium that culture can turn around surprisingly quickly with the
right combination of people and enough trust. And I think
that that is counterintuitive because often we talk about it
takes years to change a culture, but my experience is
that it can actually happen very very quickly.

Speaker 4 (49:26):
Do you know what that's I love that because I
think we heard that.

Speaker 3 (49:30):
I don't know where this came from, but there was
some thing going around of like it takes seven years
to reinvent or culturally transform, And I love hearing you
say no, no, if you have the if you have
the right people and you get them aligned, you can
move it faster than you think.

Speaker 2 (49:47):
Yeah, yeah, I think that's a relief. I think so
as well.

Speaker 1 (49:51):
And you know, look, I I you know, if someone
would have reminded me of that, because I kind of
knew it from another experience I'd had many years ago
with Inventium, but I think I would have really liked
someone to remind me of that during twenty twenty four,
where I felt like the culture was not the culture
that I knew and loved about Inventium, And twenty twenty

(50:12):
five has just been It's done a one eighty and
work has just been an absolute joy consistently for the
whole year.

Speaker 3 (50:19):
Yeah, someone at the end of this year is going
to really benefit from hearing that, because they're going to
look at their twenty twenty six and think, I've got
to I've got to sort out my culture. Just knowing, Hey,
if you get the right people and you define it,
you get clear on what the expectations are, it can
really help to move move it faster.

Speaker 4 (50:38):
If we're talking about frivolous ones.

Speaker 2 (50:40):
Oh, that wasn't my traveling one. No, that wasn't that's
not priven, that was not privioless all.

Speaker 4 (50:45):
But if we can, if I will my terrible one. Oh,
this is so bad.

Speaker 3 (50:52):
I got into journaling this year because I did the
Morning Pages. Have you heard of the Morning Pages?

Speaker 4 (50:58):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (50:58):
Yeah, yeah, So I did this.

Speaker 4 (51:00):
Year for three months, twelve weeks.

Speaker 3 (51:01):
I tried to do it for and it really did
help me with my monkey mind, and it's to get
all your thoughts out there. And my learning from that is,
do not leave your journal in a conference meeting room,
in a workshop that you're running.

Speaker 4 (51:18):
Do not.

Speaker 3 (51:19):
And so I got on. I was in a place
that I will remain unnamed, got on the plane, got
in the morning, got my went to get my journal
out to do my morning pages, and I was like,
where's my journal? And I'd left it in a public
place and I'm contacted the person. I'm like, is my
journal there? And they're like yep, oh, And I was like,
burn it.

Speaker 4 (51:39):
Burn it now. Oh my god.

Speaker 3 (51:42):
So that's my frivolous And also again back to embarrassment,
I have had many embarrassing moments this year, that being
one of them.

Speaker 2 (51:50):
Oh my gosh, Oh my gosh. Yeah, that's that's not cool.

Speaker 1 (51:54):
Oh wow, Okay, okay, Now I've got two frivolous ones,
so this is number two, and then twenty four will
also be frivolous. So I during the middle of the
year when I was in peak book writing, which means
that I'm literally at my computer every day, often for hours.
And when i'm when I'm early on in a manuscript

(52:17):
and Inventium does a four day week, but you know,
the book stuff is outside of inventing and work and
so forth to stay so I literally work every single day.
I have word count targets, and I'm spending a lot
of time at the computer. I was getting shocking neck
and shoulder pain and I just felt like I was
in chronic pain.

Speaker 2 (52:37):
And so.

Speaker 1 (52:39):
A friend's husband, Sam's Daniel Grinberg. He's a chiropractor. He
does a lot of work with workplaces and posture training.
He's so kindly came over to my home office and
spent the whole morning with me.

Speaker 2 (52:54):
And I learned a lot of things from that.

Speaker 1 (52:57):
But I think the number one thing that that I
thought I had no idea of this, but was really
helped a lot is that when you're setting yourself up
in a good posture at your desk, make sure your
forearms are supported.

Speaker 4 (53:10):
And huh yeah.

Speaker 1 (53:12):
And I had never thought about that. I thought, oh,
I know, my wrists, I think maybe needs support and
I need to be like at right angles and stuff.
But my forearms need to be supported because then it
sort of lets your your shoulders and neck relax and
it's so much easier to type. And that was a
game changer for me. So make sure your forearms are
supported when you're at your computer typing.

Speaker 3 (53:34):
And as you said that, I put my forearms on
the table. But I was also thinking, if you're typing
an eighty thousand word manuscript, yes.

Speaker 1 (53:41):
You need good posture. In need, you need good ergonomics
at the computer.

Speaker 4 (53:45):
Get you do any good economics? Do you know what? Actually?

Speaker 3 (53:49):
No, this was one and it's probably more frivolous, but
I think underrated people on teams are easy laughers.

Speaker 4 (53:58):
Do you know people who laugh easily?

Speaker 2 (54:00):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (54:02):
And I'm like, I was in a meeting the other
day with someone and she just laughed so much and
I left with like a spring in my step. And
I was like, why did I leave feeling so good
after that meeting? I was like, it's because she laughed
a lot. And I don't think I wasn't being particularly funny, like,
although I can be if you like, but like, I

(54:25):
just thought it was a really nice and so the
way I wrote this was being an easy laugher is hot.

Speaker 4 (54:33):
But he did give me energy.

Speaker 3 (54:34):
I left feeling energized, and so I think it's an
underrated career skill anyway. So that's my I would say,
that's a little twenty is that twenty three?

Speaker 2 (54:43):
Twenty three? Twenty three? Yeah, I like that, Okay.

Speaker 1 (54:46):
Twenty four frivolous but important. This is another posture one
because I did think a lot about posture during this year.
Is I know you and I both spend a lot
of time on planes and my plane travel work, HAC
is to always travel with a next stand, So it's
a nex stand laptop stand. So it is a little

(55:11):
plastic device. I will I'll share a link with us
so we can put it in our show notes. And
it's basically like it folds up to the size of
like if you think about gosh, it's like about sort
of thirty centimeters long, folds up really lightweight, like would

(55:31):
I don't know, way like two or three hundred grams
or something like that maybe, and you just sort of
pull it apart. And then what I do is I
put that on my lap when I'm working on planes.
Where you know, for most people if they're on their
laptop on planes as a low people are when they're
traveling for work, you're just you're in this hunched over
position and it's not good and the screen's really low,

(55:53):
so your head is looking down, which puts a strain
on your neck. And so this basically puts the screen
closer to eye height and it means that your arms
are kind of at right angles when you're typing. And
I also i'd like I use it when I travel
all the time, but particularly on planes. I just I
cannot rate this next stand laptop stand highly enough, total

(56:17):
game changer.

Speaker 3 (56:18):
I've written that down because I feel like I need this.
But I also when you said next stand, I thought
you meant a stand for.

Speaker 2 (56:23):
Your next just propery head up.

Speaker 3 (56:26):
I was just like envisioning you that. But then I'm like, oh, no,
a laptop stand. Okay, good, I have written that down
my last one twenty five.

Speaker 4 (56:33):
Wow, we got there. We did this well. How it'd
go for time?

Speaker 3 (56:38):
Someone said this to me this year and it stuck
with me, Amantha so much. It was really beautiful the
way they framed it in their work in elite sports,
very accomplished, high performer, super amazing career. Quite anyway, they
said this, the wins are never as good as you think,

(56:58):
and the losses are never as bad as you think.

Speaker 4 (57:01):
Keep going.

Speaker 3 (57:02):
And for someone who literally has had their whole career,
like a long career in elite sports, winning and losing,
and has had a lot of wins, like huge, huge wins,
I did think there is something really powerful about that
lens of we put so much weight on when we

(57:26):
have those losses and fails, and we absolutely berayed ourselves
self criticism kicks in, but I just like the balance
in it, Like, actually, the wins are never as good
and the losses are never as bad. Just keep going.
It's the momentum that matters. And I have like just
scribbled that down and reminded and reminded myself of that

(57:47):
when I have either a win or a loss, of
just going, you know what, just keep going.

Speaker 2 (57:53):
I like that.

Speaker 1 (57:53):
I like that it reminds me of the quote this
too shall pass. I feel like it's a bit of
a leveler. It's like, Okay, this too, sh'll pass, and
if it's really bad, just remembering it will pass. But
also if it's really good, it will pass as well,
and so savor it. It's kind of not saying the
same thing, but for some reason, it just reminds me
of it. And that's that's like a little bantra that

(58:15):
I often have going around in my head. We have
made it, Shalli, we did it twenty five minits in
twenty twenty five.

Speaker 2 (58:26):
I think we need to do an annual ritual here.

Speaker 4 (58:29):
I should.

Speaker 2 (58:30):
Yeah, kudos to you for thinking of the theme. I
love it well.

Speaker 3 (58:33):
Also, I think like I think this, you know, we
could have gone on for much longer.

Speaker 4 (58:38):
We could have got to fifty.

Speaker 3 (58:39):
I reckon that, you know what, the time does not permit,
so twenty five things. Let us know if there's something
that resonates most with you, and share this with someone.

Speaker 4 (58:49):
Get the pod out there.

Speaker 3 (58:51):
Yes, was so great stating with you, so good chatting
with you. Twenty twenty five. Baby, we did it.

Speaker 2 (58:58):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (59:01):
I love that a year can feel chaotic while you're
in it, and then you sit down with a friend,
compare notes, and suddenly the whole thing makes a lot
more sense. I hope that you picked up a useful
tip or two, and maybe this even triggered some of
your own reflections on the year that has been. Thank
you so much for listening, and have a wonderful, RESTful
holiday season. If you like today's show, make sure you

(59:24):
hit follow on your podcast app to be alerted when
new episodes drop. How I Work was recorded on the
traditional land of the Warrangery People, part of the Cool
and Nation. A big thank you to Martin Nimber for
doing the sound mix.

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