January 1, 2025 • 33 mins
**BEST OF**
What does it take to lead one of the world’s most creative and innovative companies?
Mel Silva’s been with Google for over 16 years, and now as the Managing Director for Australia and New Zealand, she’s a pivotal part of fostering the company’s world-famous culture.
Mel unpacks the key lessons she’s learned in her many roles with the company, including the lessons she’s learned from her coach, and what she’s learned about herself and her leadership style since becoming a mentor for up-and-coming Googlers.
Mel also shares her most valuable new working practice, which she calls ‘thinking days,’ and teaches you how to make deep thinking time as effective as possible for you and your organisation.
Connect with Mel on LinkedIn
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Visit https://www.amantha.com/podcast for full show notes from all episodes.
Get in touch at amantha@inventium.com.au
Credits:
Produced by Inventium
Host: Amantha Imber
Sound Engineer: Martin Imber
Episode Producer: Liam Riordan
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
How I work is having a little break over the
festive season, so I've picked a handful of my absolute
favorite episodes from the last eighteen months to play for
you in this best of series. I hope you enjoy,
and I'll be back with new episodes twice weekly from
January twenty eight. When I say workplace culture, one company
(00:22):
that probably comes to mind for almost everyone is Google.
Whether it's the sprawling open plan officers that were all
the rage for tech companies in the twenty tens, the
free gourmet meals for staff, or their relentless pursuit of innovation.
Google's been on a mission to acquire and retain the
world's top talent for a very long time now. So
(00:45):
when Mel's Silver, who's Google's managing director in Australia and
New Zealand, tells you how to improve your company's culture,
you'd know that she's probably onto something. Mel's been with
Google for sixteen years now, and she's worked with countless
incredible mentors and mentees along the way. So what are
(01:06):
the most important lessons Mel has learned from her time
at Google? How does she use her leadership expertise not
only in her work life but also in her family
life and how does she structure what she calls her
thinking days. My name is doctor Amantha Imbert. I'm an
(01:29):
organizational psychologist and the founder of Behavioral Science Consultancy Inventium,
and this is how I work a show about how
to help you do your best work? Now something that
you do our thinking days, which I find very interesting.
Can you tell me what is the thinking day?
Speaker 2 (01:47):
So a thinking day is one day every six weeks,
very much enabled by the wonderful powers of my executive assistant,
where I just take myself out of the game, get
off the dam flow, get onto the balcony, whatever the
sort of leadership be term you want to use, and
I carve it up into three sections so that I
can get into serious flow. Like the origin story of
(02:11):
the thinking day for me was I went to this
course and it was probably about a year less than
a year into taking the job back in Australia, and
I just realized I was like a slave to my diary,
like people were putting stuff in, people were telling me
what I should be thinking about. And I knew that
there was so much I wanted to think about, but
(02:32):
I just couldn't find the time. And I went to
this course that was all about sustaining high performance for
females within Google, and we got a kind of deep
dive into this concept of flow, like getting yourself, putting
the phone down, turning it around, giving yourself no distractions,
and giving yourself time to think about it. And I
(02:55):
just thought, if I don't create some sort of intervention here,
it's never going to happen. I'm never going to get
an hour and a half free just by chance. And
so I first started out by carving out time in
the morning two days a week, and it just wasn't
working for me.
Speaker 1 (03:10):
Why Why is that?
Speaker 2 (03:10):
I'm a working mom and like by the time I
get to the office some days, like I've run a marathon,
you know, like I've dropped two kids off at school,
I've forgotten to order lunch orders, I've got phone call,
you know. So it's just you're not in good flow state.
And so I sat down with my assistant and I said,
how do you think we can make this work? And
she said, We're just going to give you a date
every six weeks. And so it's just there, it's a block,
(03:31):
it's unbookable. But the key to it is the prep,
right The key to it is getting the three topics
that I want to think deeply about, at least a
straw man of those, and some questions, because if I
need data or inputs, I want it beforehand. And usually
the output of them is an incredible mind map about
(03:53):
thirty five new questions to go and talk to different
people about, or in the really great cases, scoping doc
of some stuff that we need to do and some
deliverables that we should probably be putting out into the world.
So I just I don't know what I do without
them now, to be honest, they are a game changer
for me.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
What's an example of a challenge that you bring to
a thinking day?
Speaker 2 (04:15):
So really good topical one most recently was, you know,
I think the world is going through, especially working people,
a huge shift right now. Google's always had this wonderful culture,
and it's known for great food and great officers, and
you know, there's a whole bunch of people who've been
(04:36):
through three and a half years of you know, just
NonStop kind of stress and resilience, and you know, there's
macro uncertainty out there, and I just kind of think,
I thought to myself, do we have programs right now
that are fit for purpose in terms of what kind
(04:57):
of culture and capability that we are trying to build
in our organization. Is it still fit for purpose? Do
we need a bit of a course correction? And I
knew we had a leadership off site coming out up,
and so I just wanted us to be really intentional
about the questions that we were going to ask of
each other and the sort of strategic imperatives that we
(05:21):
wanted to deliver on. So I ended up creating a
bit of a table which was like, what was it
like before, what is it like now, how do we
think Googlers feel about it? And what's the strategic imperative
that comes off the back of that, And it just
ended up being a wonderful discussion guide for our off site.
So things like that, which again you never really carve
(05:41):
out time to think about if you just go through
the motions of rocking up to the meetings that people
want to have.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
So how then do you prepare for your thinking days?
What does that process look like?
Speaker 2 (05:54):
Yeah, it's generally three really high level questions and they
will come up over the course of six week. So
there's usually like a page at the back of the
notebook where it's like thinking day kind of ideas, and
then the week before I'll distill it down and kind
of think about the stuff that I really want to
focus on, choose the three and then do the kind
of gathering that I need for that. Sometimes on a
(06:16):
thinking day as well, I'll carve out some of that
time to have a session with my coach. And that's
also great because I come out of those really energized.
It's great prep for a mind map.
Speaker 1 (06:29):
Now. I know when we spoke before this interview, you
were talking about how Bad, which is Google's version of
chat GPT, was also quite helpful in helping you prep
for these days. I want to take a step back
first because and I guess for those that haven't tried Bad,
(06:50):
and I think it's still in beta mode. Is that right?
Speaker 2 (06:53):
Join in Australia on a waiting list and you can
get access now. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
Now, I've had a few people from Go on the
show over the years, and one of my favorites was
Laura may Martin.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
She's great. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:04):
So she's Google's executive productivity advisor and helped top execs
be more productive and I've gotten some great tips from
her about Google Calendar and Gmail. I know that you
think quite deeply along with your executive assistant around how
you use Google Calendar. Can you tell me how you
think about g cal and I guess you also think
(07:26):
about it quite strategically in terms of looking back over it. Yeah,
so I think the way I work with my assistant
is so important. Here she color codes my diary, which
serves a whole bunch of purposes, some very strategic and
some very practical, like being able to look at your
calendar in the morning and know if you have something
external will actually impact.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
What you wear that day. So that's just a quick
glance in the morning, is there any blue right need
the good sneakers today? But what it also enables is
this kind of tagging of the event, so that at
the end of a quarter we can go back and say, right,
She says to me, mel this is where you spent
(08:08):
your time this quarter, and is that right? Does that
feel right in terms of your priorities? And so for me,
it's things like external relationships, one on ones with team members,
what kind of topics we're talking about, And so it's
just a really good gauge of whether things are going
to plan or not. But what sits behind that is
(08:30):
this being intentional about your time, right. And I've said
this so many times I feel like a bit of
a broken record, but I don't want to be the
busiest person. I don't want to have the busiest calendar
that's the most packed. What I want to be is
the most impactful person. And if you don't measure these things,
then you can't manage them. And so the color coding
(08:52):
for us is just a great tool. And even with
things like this is for the kids, I need to go,
I need to be there this particular thing, so I
know where that is, and she knows where that is,
and she knows that it's a not bookable over type thing.
So it's just a really good I don't know, it
just speeds things up.
Speaker 1 (09:11):
I guess, what are the different colors that you like?
The different categories of work that have their own color.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
Yeah, so there's internal events, there's like ads, business type stuff,
there's broader cross functional all of Google type stuff. Internal
external so whether it's with a partner or not. There's kids,
I mean, there's I think there's about nine or ten
different colors that going on. We've used all the colors
(09:38):
I know we've maxed out colors, and then there's actually
one for like do not schedule, which is thinking time
right or work time that she knows that I've got to,
you know, I need to spend some time doing something,
preparing for a meeting or whatever it might be.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
How do you decide what percentage of time is the
right amount to be dedicating to those different broadcas agrees
of work.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
Yeah, well, it's less about this needs to be fifty
percent of my time and more about hang on, it
should definitely be more than ten, you know, Like it's
more about tweaking as opposed to sort of setting guidelines
and making sure we stick to them. But it's just
more of a lead indicator of our things on track
or not, as opposed to a quota, you know what
(10:22):
I mean.
Speaker 1 (10:22):
I know. Something else that you do is you've only
got one calendar as opposed to several, which I found
interesting because in my own life, I've got three calendars.
I've got my work calendar, I've got my personal calendar,
which is also my daughter's commitments as well, and then
I've got to shared calendar with my partner and it
(10:44):
can be a bit messy. So tell me about only
having one calendar.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
Well, I only have one life, and you know, it's
just about shortcuts really for me. I mean I do
think that philosophically, I bring my whole self to work,
and you know, at home, everyone needs to understand that
mum's mum works, that my partner understands that I work.
But having one view of everything is just convenient to me,
(11:11):
Like I will double book on myself if I have
one calendar here and one calendar there. So I think
the beauty of it is if someone does send me
an invite to a personal Gmail thing, I can actually
see it in that one space. But for me, it's
just a speed of what's going on. You know, birthday
parties are in their swimming lessons, are in their netballs
(11:32):
in there. You know, it's just this is my whole being.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
Now, I want to talk about advice because you've been
at Google for sixteen years.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
I was five when I started.
Speaker 1 (11:50):
I've been running Inventor for sixteen years, and I too
was five when I started that business. Yeah, I want
to know what's the best advice you've received from fellow
Googlers over that period of time.
Speaker 2 (12:01):
Yeah, Well, you know, radical candor is something that I
am a big fan of and the best and.
Speaker 1 (12:11):
For those that haven't heard of the term radical candor,
it has, I guess become popularized over the years. Can
you define what it is?
Speaker 2 (12:18):
So it's just being brutally honest with people and being
really direct. I has actually written a book written by
a Googler, Kim Scott. I think her name was a Is.
She's still with us, but you know she's got this
really incredible model of you know, are you just working
in ruinous empathy? Are you trying to be too nice?
(12:38):
And you know, all these different models and I think
this concept of being really direct with someone. The example
she gives is, you know, I was sitting in a
meeting and my boss after the meeting said to me,
you know, when you say too much, it makes you
sound really dumb, which like what a sting, right, But
I just think I am the sort of person who
(13:00):
responds best to hearing it right before, right between the eyeballs,
you know. And I had a great boss and he
said to me, you know, you've got this incredible fire
in the belly. You're really commercial. People follow you, but
you've really got to watch your p's and Q's like,
you've got to know when that is the right time.
You really have to develop that skill. And it was
(13:22):
just such a powerful piece of feedback to me because
I think I had, you know, I'd grown up in
a time where I was I'd grown up in banking,
I'd grown up in environments where that kind of hate
to say it, but it's like boys, locker room type
language and stuff was just the norm, and you almost
felt like you had to be that way. I think
(13:44):
I was that way anyway, so don't get me wrong,
but you there was this kind of acceptance of that,
and he just said to me, you know, you will
have much more cut through when you know when and
how to play those levers. And it just enabled me
to go away and think about it and put it
(14:05):
into practice without losing who I was as a person,
still being really direct and still being really you know,
I bring levity to situations. That's one of my superpowers.
It doesn't mean being serious and losing my personality. It
means just knowing when to play the card right.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
I can imagine hearing feedback like that could feel like
it's an attack on you and your personality. How do
you work through applying the feedback as opposed to I
don't know, getting really defensive and going no, no, that's
a part of me. You're asking me to fundamentally change.
Speaker 2 (14:44):
So do you know why I think I remember that
particular piece of feedback so well is because he coupled
it with my strength, and he said, you have this
fire in your belly. I love it. You have this
commercial acumen. I love it. People will follow you. Don't
stuff it up like it's and so it kind of
(15:08):
appreciated who I was, and it like it really affirmed
all of the good things about my personality. And the
same time as him coming across, as I'm giving you
this as a gift, Right, it's always going to sting
to hear feedback that, even if it's just constructive stuff
about the way you run a meeting, or if it's
got nothing to do with your personality, good feedback I
(15:31):
think has to sting. Otherwise it's not going to be
heard or felt right Otherwise, I think you're in ruinos
empathy mode. But you know, I think over the years,
you realize that you're only getting that feedback because someone
really cares about your development. Right, if you go through
(15:51):
a relationship with a boss or with an employee, and
all you ever say to them is you're great, don't
worry about it. That there's a version of that that's like, well,
I don't really care, you know, keep doing what you're doing.
You lean in when you really care about someone.
Speaker 1 (16:07):
Now you have a coach, and I think it's really
hard finding a good I mean it's hard finding those
good kind of like support people in your life, whether
it's a therapist, a psychologist, a coach. How did you
find your coach?
Speaker 2 (16:23):
Well, Google actually put me in touch with my coach,
and it started out as quite a specific purpose. So
I had just taken on a new role, like an
expanded role, and the leadership team, the leadership development team,
came and said, hey, you know you're about to do
this thing. Would you like to have a coach for
a couple of sessions just to kind of bang some
(16:44):
stuff out? And I was like, yeah, sure, great, and
we just hit it off. And so I think at
the end of every ten sessions, I would go begging
and pleading to please, can I keep the coach? And
they'd be like yeah, yeah, yeah, And then you know,
I think it's only ten years now, that I've had
the same coach and he's incredible.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
Yeah, tell me what are some of the most important
things that he's taught you and helped you with?
Speaker 2 (17:10):
Ah, well, jeez, again, this is a whole other podcast.
The most impactful one, like the one that has changed
me the most, is coming to groups with that in
a critic. Right, So I have a tendency to be
quite catastrophic, and I have a tendency to make it
(17:31):
all my fault in my mind, and he has just
been so instrumental in helping me come to terms with that,
but not not by ignoring it, by accepting that that's
a huge part of who I am, being proud of
why that is there, and then just being great at
(17:53):
consciously pushing it to the back. So I'll give you
an example. You know, something goes wrong, my brain goes,
this is all your fault, Like, how did you get
the white? Did you found? I'm now able to go
this is what you do all the time. The reason
why you do that is because you've got really high
standards and you don't ever want to be the person
(18:14):
who has let the team down. But here the voice
know that it's probably going to be ten times more
than the reality of the situation. Put it back, turn
the volume down on that voice. Go. So he gave
me like a bus visual, Like you're driving the bus
and there's someone who's like screaming in your ear, just
send them to the back of the bus. That has
(18:36):
completely changed me, completely changed who I am and the
way I think about myself and the way I judge myself.
Made me so much more confident in myself because I'm
actually proud now that I have that little voice. I'm
proud that it keeps me grounded, like it keeps me hungry,
(18:57):
and it pushes me, but it can also bring me
all the way down. If I don't watch.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
It, we will be back with Melson talking about how
she approaches people development in a really simple but really
impactful way. If you're looking for more tips to improve
the way you work can live. I write a short
weekly newsletter that contains tactics I've discovered that have helped
(19:25):
me personally. You can sign up for that at Amantha
dot com. That's Amantha dot com. Now I know that
you're really passionate about people development and you have office hours, Yesordre,
can you tell me about that?
Speaker 2 (19:44):
So office hours is a couple of half hour slots
every week that anyone can just book and come in.
I actually just came off the back of some the
Melbourne office and look, ninety percent of the time people
are having a career conversation. So they sometimes they'll bring
in a performance development plan, or they'll bring in their
(20:05):
kind of goals and we'll chat them through. Or they'll
have a job that they're thinking about that they want
to kind of bash out so people can use them
for whatever they want. But most of the time it
is about people development. I mean, I think you know,
I have been at Google for a long time and
I've had sort of two stints in the Australia team,
(20:27):
and you know, we've done incredible things, and we've built
wonderful products, and we've helped advertisers all around the country.
But man, the dopamine hits when you see someone who
you hired sixteen years ago become a director, or you
see them in a job that's in a completely different
(20:48):
team and they are just nailing it. I don't think
there's a better dopamine hit that you get from seeing
that and knowing and because we have a culture where
that sort of seeking advice and helping and coaching is
part of the part of it, the full circle, like
people thank you for it. They come back and they
(21:10):
or they write you a card or you know, little
things like that, and you don't do it for that,
but you do feel like it's just a whole new
source of I don't know, inspiration and gratitude, and yeah,
it's my favorite thing to do. It's one of the
things that fills the cup, not grains the cup. And
(21:30):
that's kind of you know, in terms of managing your energy,
I think in senior roles, you do have to kind
of go in knowing that if I just go with
the flow here, my energy will be completely depleted at
the end of every day. So what am I actively
doing to top it up? Office hours is one of them.
Speaker 1 (21:50):
Yeah, Now you're a parent as well. You have three
kids and two ten and thirteen, I think their ages.
It said that you have a weekly spreadsheet with your
partner to manage everything parenting.
Speaker 2 (22:06):
Can you tell me what that looks like? So it's
a spreadsheet with a few tabs, so you know, there
was actually a new tab added last week because I
was away and there was just a whole bunch of
stuff that was going on. And you know, it's like
military kind of level logistics when you have a teenager,
(22:28):
a tween, and a toddler. And so for my husband
having to do all three, like look after all three
of them last week on his own, that was like major.
So there were you know, maybe a couple of times
there were ubers involved in bringing children school, but you know,
(22:50):
there was like an early netball camp, and there was
you know, tapping into the network of amazing mothers that
support each other in this sort of world. You know,
like so this person's picking up this child for that
day and this, you know, so it was just kind
of it's just a matter of putting it all on
one piece of paper. You know, we're both busy people, right,
so just having a go to on your phone that
(23:11):
you can go, yep, this is what's going on today
is just easier. But you know, on the other spreadsheet,
there's here's the homework that this middle one needs to
get done this week, and this is what we need
to check at the end of every day. And you know,
so look it's just logistics, man. I mean it probably
(23:33):
speaks to some sort of control thing that I have.
It feels better once you've written it down, you know,
and you've got the structure and you know it's doable.
Otherwise you just think it's impossible.
Speaker 1 (23:46):
M How do you think about parenting and the time
that you do spend with your kids, given like you're
in a job that's demanding and that requires travel.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
Yeah, well, you know, I try. I just try to
be as present as I can. I don't win all
the time, but it's about finding those moments that matter.
I think when you're you know, so I pick up
my daughter from school on a certain day and that's
just like not negotiable, and that's our time together. You know.
(24:21):
I do nepple on the weekends. I mean, it's a
great way just to connect with other parents, but for
her to know that Mum sees me there, that's really important.
I drive my eldest son to school and that's really
good chat time because he's at the age of he
doesn't want to necessarily look you in the face all
(24:42):
the time. But you know, that's our connection time. It's
about making the time you have work. You know. I
grew up in a household where my mum ran a
small business. You know, our loundroom was the boardroom, it
was the oper ration center, you know. And so I
(25:04):
think I had a kind of good schooling in Hey,
this is mum time and sometimes mum's got meetings at night.
And it doesn't mean that I ever thought she was
less of a mumm. So I mean, yeah, I don't know.
I just I feel like there's all this kind of
pressure about how mums should be and all this kind
(25:26):
of stuff. I just want to be the mum they
call when something goes wrong. That's kind of my north star.
And so how do you cultivate that relationship over the
course of you know, probably thirteen or fourteen years by
the time they start getting into those situations being the
(25:46):
one that they can talk to. So I don't pride
myself on necessarily have we made cookies today? Yes, great,
we've made cookies today. And great if you make cookies
like that, if that's your thing with your kids, awesome.
But for me, it's just about making sure individually they
have some time with one another and knowing. I think
(26:06):
the beauty of the smaller child is that he's given
us this perspective that life changes a lot. You know,
there's a big difference between eight and ten. There's a
big difference between one and three. And so you know,
like if we're in a crazy phase now, it'll be
(26:28):
really different in six months time. So let's not beat
ourselves up over the factor what we can and can't do.
And if I've got to travel this week, that doesn't
delete every bit of parenting that we've done the week before.
Speaker 1 (26:39):
You know, So, what are your principles around technology and
screens for your kids?
Speaker 2 (26:48):
Yeah, I mean it's a fascinating question because I've got
three kids and they are all super different, right and again, phases,
reasons and seasons. There was definitely I've always sort of
had that he's the rope, like you stuff it up,
basically like I'm going to trust you. Here are the boundaries,
(27:09):
and if you break them, then I pull back. But
I guess the first principle is I don't believe that
it's evil. I believe that. You know, my son when
he was little, learned how to sing, you know, let
it go in twenty five languages by watching YouTube. He
(27:30):
now he is really into art, so he will sit
there and watch videos about how to draw an eye.
I think that's a good use of screen time. If
he also then watches anime, and so I don't think
it's a one size fits all. I think it's what
you're doing on there. My daughter is at a different
(27:53):
phase in her life and it's completely different usage, and
so it requires a completely different style. And so it's
almost like leadership at work, as horrible as that might sound,
but there's no one size fits all. It's like, what
motivates you is not what motivates another person. And the
things that we need to develop with you are different
(28:15):
to the things that we need to develop with the
other one. So I think it's about being a little
bit more nuanced. But the reality is technology is going
to be part of their world. So I want them
to be the boss of their boundaries, just like I
want my folks at work to be the boss of
their boundaries as well.
Speaker 1 (28:33):
Something I've been thinking and writing a lot about this
here is health, and that's the topic of the current
book that I'm working on. And I'm curious, like, in
amongst all the different responsibilities that you have, where does
looking after both physical and mental health for you? How
do you think about that? And where do you find time?
Speaker 2 (28:50):
Such a great timely question. So I actually was lucky
enough yesterday to interview James Clear for an event we
had here in Melbourne. And I'm a huge fan of
that book. But earlier this well, actually, when I came
back from matt Lbs sort of the beginning of last year,
(29:11):
while I was on maternity lab, I had the best
sort of regime of my life. I was walking every day,
I was yogaing every day, I was exercising every day.
I you know, like I had time to cook really
great healthy meals. Like the yoga was the mental health
break as well. Everyone was at home, so I got
breaks from the you know, I was living my best life,
(29:32):
let's just put it that way. And I came back
to work and Amantha, it just all vanished. It just
all slipped away. And despite the best of intentions like Okay,
I'm going to get up a five point thirty and
I'm going to do yoga and I'm going to do
Mama forget it right. And of course it takes me
(29:53):
about six months to kind of realize that that's happening.
And so I read Atomic Habits and I thought, Okay,
I'm going to do this, like one percent of thing.
I'm just going to try. I'm just want to master
the art of showing up, and it's actually in the diary.
It's the hack for me has been I bought myself
a new fit bed, so I've gamer fighter. I've made
(30:14):
it attractive and made it sort of quite obvious. When
there is a half an hour break in my diary,
I leave the office and I go walk twice around
the block. When I spoke to you, I was walking
around the block, and so that's where I'm at right now.
But I've also realized that in a year's time, when
the baby's a little bit older, that these things become easier, right,
(30:38):
And so I'm just not I'm just being kind to myself,
to be honest. But the identity that I'm trying to
kind of manifest is I want to master the art
of showing up. I want to take advantage of the
moments that I have, and I just want to be
the sort of person that takes time for themselves. A
lot of anger that I hear from i'm working mums
(31:01):
is everybody takes from me, and I just I just
don't want to ever kind of foster that resentment. I
just I want to be even if it's five minutes,
that's enough, you know, I've done, like I've dropped one
of my kids off really early in the morning, just
done a sneaky trip down to this cliff, sat there
(31:22):
for five minutes. How did a quick little meditation. That's enough.
That's enough right now, So it's going to be kind
to myself. I love that, Mel.
Speaker 1 (31:34):
For people that want to connect with you, what is
the best way to do that?
Speaker 2 (31:39):
Well, LinkedIn is wide open, baby. LinkedIn is definitely the
best of plays because I do keep the other socials
private just because you know, I want to be able
to send photos of my kids to my mum. Had
of being open to the whole universe to see. But yeah,
(32:03):
for sure on LinkedIn, and it's a very busy channel.
I can imagine. I can imagine.
Speaker 1 (32:08):
I feel like you're about to be inundated with many
messages on LinkedIn. Mel, this has just been such an
absolute joy. As I said, when we connected, and fratuitously
we got connected by someone at Google. You've been on
kind of my hit list in my mind for how
I work for a while now, and I'm so glad
that we could make this happen. It's just been just
(32:30):
a joy to hear about how you think about Work.
Speaker 2 (32:32):
Thanks, aman there's been so wonderful to be here.
Speaker 1 (32:35):
I hope that you enjoyed this chat with Mel I
must say she was such fun to talk to and
her energy, I must say, is so contagious. If you
enjoyed this episode and you know someone else who would benefit,
why not share it with them? And if you're enjoying
How I Work, I'd love it if you could take
(32:57):
a few seconds to leave a review in the Apple
Podcasts app or wherever you listen to this podcast from
Thank you for sharing part of your day with me
by listening to How I Work. If you're keen for
more tips on how to work better, connect with me
via LinkedIn or Instagram. I'm very easy to find. Just
search for Amantha Imba. How I Work was recorded on
(33:22):
the traditional land of the Warrenery people, part of the
cool And Nation. I am so grateful for being able
to work and live on this beautiful land and I
want to pay my respects to elder's past, present and emerging.
How I Work is produced by Inventium with production support
from Dead Set Studios.
Speaker 2 (33:42):
The producer for this episode
Speaker 1 (33:43):
Was Liam Riordan and thank you to Martin Nimba, who
did the audio mix and makes everything sound better than
it would have otherwise.
How I work is having a little break over the
festive season, so I've picked a handful of my absolute
favorite episodes from the last eighteen months to play for
you in this best of series. I hope you enjoy,
and I'll be back with new episodes twice weekly from
January twenty eight. When I say workplace culture, one company
(00:22):
that probably comes to mind for almost everyone is Google.
Whether it's the sprawling open plan officers that were all
the rage for tech companies in the twenty tens, the
free gourmet meals for staff, or their relentless pursuit of innovation.
Google's been on a mission to acquire and retain the
world's top talent for a very long time now. So
(00:45):
when Mel's Silver, who's Google's managing director in Australia and
New Zealand, tells you how to improve your company's culture,
you'd know that she's probably onto something. Mel's been with
Google for sixteen years now, and she's worked with countless
incredible mentors and mentees along the way. So what are
(01:06):
the most important lessons Mel has learned from her time
at Google? How does she use her leadership expertise not
only in her work life but also in her family
life and how does she structure what she calls her
thinking days. My name is doctor Amantha Imbert. I'm an
(01:29):
organizational psychologist and the founder of Behavioral Science Consultancy Inventium,
and this is how I work a show about how
to help you do your best work? Now something that
you do our thinking days, which I find very interesting.
Can you tell me what is the thinking day?
Speaker 2 (01:47):
So a thinking day is one day every six weeks,
very much enabled by the wonderful powers of my executive assistant,
where I just take myself out of the game, get
off the dam flow, get onto the balcony, whatever the
sort of leadership be term you want to use, and
I carve it up into three sections so that I
can get into serious flow. Like the origin story of
(02:11):
the thinking day for me was I went to this
course and it was probably about a year less than
a year into taking the job back in Australia, and
I just realized I was like a slave to my diary,
like people were putting stuff in, people were telling me
what I should be thinking about. And I knew that
there was so much I wanted to think about, but
(02:32):
I just couldn't find the time. And I went to
this course that was all about sustaining high performance for
females within Google, and we got a kind of deep
dive into this concept of flow, like getting yourself, putting
the phone down, turning it around, giving yourself no distractions,
and giving yourself time to think about it. And I
(02:55):
just thought, if I don't create some sort of intervention here,
it's never going to happen. I'm never going to get
an hour and a half free just by chance. And
so I first started out by carving out time in
the morning two days a week, and it just wasn't
working for me.
Speaker 1 (03:10):
Why Why is that?
Speaker 2 (03:10):
I'm a working mom and like by the time I
get to the office some days, like I've run a marathon,
you know, like I've dropped two kids off at school,
I've forgotten to order lunch orders, I've got phone call,
you know. So it's just you're not in good flow state.
And so I sat down with my assistant and I said,
how do you think we can make this work? And
she said, We're just going to give you a date
every six weeks. And so it's just there, it's a block,
(03:31):
it's unbookable. But the key to it is the prep,
right The key to it is getting the three topics
that I want to think deeply about, at least a
straw man of those, and some questions, because if I
need data or inputs, I want it beforehand. And usually
the output of them is an incredible mind map about
(03:53):
thirty five new questions to go and talk to different
people about, or in the really great cases, scoping doc
of some stuff that we need to do and some
deliverables that we should probably be putting out into the world.
So I just I don't know what I do without
them now, to be honest, they are a game changer
for me.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
What's an example of a challenge that you bring to
a thinking day?
Speaker 2 (04:15):
So really good topical one most recently was, you know,
I think the world is going through, especially working people,
a huge shift right now. Google's always had this wonderful culture,
and it's known for great food and great officers, and
you know, there's a whole bunch of people who've been
(04:36):
through three and a half years of you know, just
NonStop kind of stress and resilience, and you know, there's
macro uncertainty out there, and I just kind of think,
I thought to myself, do we have programs right now
that are fit for purpose in terms of what kind
(04:57):
of culture and capability that we are trying to build
in our organization. Is it still fit for purpose? Do
we need a bit of a course correction? And I
knew we had a leadership off site coming out up,
and so I just wanted us to be really intentional
about the questions that we were going to ask of
each other and the sort of strategic imperatives that we
(05:21):
wanted to deliver on. So I ended up creating a
bit of a table which was like, what was it
like before, what is it like now, how do we
think Googlers feel about it? And what's the strategic imperative
that comes off the back of that, And it just
ended up being a wonderful discussion guide for our off site.
So things like that, which again you never really carve
(05:41):
out time to think about if you just go through
the motions of rocking up to the meetings that people
want to have.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
So how then do you prepare for your thinking days?
What does that process look like?
Speaker 2 (05:54):
Yeah, it's generally three really high level questions and they
will come up over the course of six week. So
there's usually like a page at the back of the
notebook where it's like thinking day kind of ideas, and
then the week before I'll distill it down and kind
of think about the stuff that I really want to
focus on, choose the three and then do the kind
of gathering that I need for that. Sometimes on a
(06:16):
thinking day as well, I'll carve out some of that
time to have a session with my coach. And that's
also great because I come out of those really energized.
It's great prep for a mind map.
Speaker 1 (06:29):
Now. I know when we spoke before this interview, you
were talking about how Bad, which is Google's version of
chat GPT, was also quite helpful in helping you prep
for these days. I want to take a step back
first because and I guess for those that haven't tried Bad,
(06:50):
and I think it's still in beta mode. Is that right?
Speaker 2 (06:53):
Join in Australia on a waiting list and you can
get access now. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
Now, I've had a few people from Go on the
show over the years, and one of my favorites was
Laura may Martin.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
She's great. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:04):
So she's Google's executive productivity advisor and helped top execs
be more productive and I've gotten some great tips from
her about Google Calendar and Gmail. I know that you
think quite deeply along with your executive assistant around how
you use Google Calendar. Can you tell me how you
think about g cal and I guess you also think
(07:26):
about it quite strategically in terms of looking back over it. Yeah,
so I think the way I work with my assistant
is so important. Here she color codes my diary, which
serves a whole bunch of purposes, some very strategic and
some very practical, like being able to look at your
calendar in the morning and know if you have something
external will actually impact.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
What you wear that day. So that's just a quick
glance in the morning, is there any blue right need
the good sneakers today? But what it also enables is
this kind of tagging of the event, so that at
the end of a quarter we can go back and say, right,
She says to me, mel this is where you spent
(08:08):
your time this quarter, and is that right? Does that
feel right in terms of your priorities? And so for me,
it's things like external relationships, one on ones with team members,
what kind of topics we're talking about, And so it's
just a really good gauge of whether things are going
to plan or not. But what sits behind that is
(08:30):
this being intentional about your time, right. And I've said
this so many times I feel like a bit of
a broken record, but I don't want to be the
busiest person. I don't want to have the busiest calendar
that's the most packed. What I want to be is
the most impactful person. And if you don't measure these things,
then you can't manage them. And so the color coding
(08:52):
for us is just a great tool. And even with
things like this is for the kids, I need to go,
I need to be there this particular thing, so I
know where that is, and she knows where that is,
and she knows that it's a not bookable over type thing.
So it's just a really good I don't know, it
just speeds things up.
Speaker 1 (09:11):
I guess, what are the different colors that you like?
The different categories of work that have their own color.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
Yeah, so there's internal events, there's like ads, business type stuff,
there's broader cross functional all of Google type stuff. Internal
external so whether it's with a partner or not. There's kids,
I mean, there's I think there's about nine or ten
different colors that going on. We've used all the colors
(09:38):
I know we've maxed out colors, and then there's actually
one for like do not schedule, which is thinking time
right or work time that she knows that I've got to,
you know, I need to spend some time doing something,
preparing for a meeting or whatever it might be.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
How do you decide what percentage of time is the
right amount to be dedicating to those different broadcas agrees
of work.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
Yeah, well, it's less about this needs to be fifty
percent of my time and more about hang on, it
should definitely be more than ten, you know, Like it's
more about tweaking as opposed to sort of setting guidelines
and making sure we stick to them. But it's just
more of a lead indicator of our things on track
or not, as opposed to a quota, you know what
(10:22):
I mean.
Speaker 1 (10:22):
I know. Something else that you do is you've only
got one calendar as opposed to several, which I found
interesting because in my own life, I've got three calendars.
I've got my work calendar, I've got my personal calendar,
which is also my daughter's commitments as well, and then
I've got to shared calendar with my partner and it
(10:44):
can be a bit messy. So tell me about only
having one calendar.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
Well, I only have one life, and you know, it's
just about shortcuts really for me. I mean I do
think that philosophically, I bring my whole self to work,
and you know, at home, everyone needs to understand that
mum's mum works, that my partner understands that I work.
But having one view of everything is just convenient to me,
(11:11):
Like I will double book on myself if I have
one calendar here and one calendar there. So I think
the beauty of it is if someone does send me
an invite to a personal Gmail thing, I can actually
see it in that one space. But for me, it's
just a speed of what's going on. You know, birthday
parties are in their swimming lessons, are in their netballs
(11:32):
in there. You know, it's just this is my whole being.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
Now, I want to talk about advice because you've been
at Google for sixteen years.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
I was five when I started.
Speaker 1 (11:50):
I've been running Inventor for sixteen years, and I too
was five when I started that business. Yeah, I want
to know what's the best advice you've received from fellow
Googlers over that period of time.
Speaker 2 (12:01):
Yeah, Well, you know, radical candor is something that I
am a big fan of and the best and.
Speaker 1 (12:11):
For those that haven't heard of the term radical candor,
it has, I guess become popularized over the years. Can
you define what it is?
Speaker 2 (12:18):
So it's just being brutally honest with people and being
really direct. I has actually written a book written by
a Googler, Kim Scott. I think her name was a Is.
She's still with us, but you know she's got this
really incredible model of you know, are you just working
in ruinous empathy? Are you trying to be too nice?
(12:38):
And you know, all these different models and I think
this concept of being really direct with someone. The example
she gives is, you know, I was sitting in a
meeting and my boss after the meeting said to me,
you know, when you say too much, it makes you
sound really dumb, which like what a sting, right, But
I just think I am the sort of person who
(13:00):
responds best to hearing it right before, right between the eyeballs,
you know. And I had a great boss and he
said to me, you know, you've got this incredible fire
in the belly. You're really commercial. People follow you, but
you've really got to watch your p's and Q's like,
you've got to know when that is the right time.
You really have to develop that skill. And it was
(13:22):
just such a powerful piece of feedback to me because
I think I had, you know, I'd grown up in
a time where I was I'd grown up in banking,
I'd grown up in environments where that kind of hate
to say it, but it's like boys, locker room type
language and stuff was just the norm, and you almost
felt like you had to be that way. I think
(13:44):
I was that way anyway, so don't get me wrong,
but you there was this kind of acceptance of that,
and he just said to me, you know, you will
have much more cut through when you know when and
how to play those levers. And it just enabled me
to go away and think about it and put it
(14:05):
into practice without losing who I was as a person,
still being really direct and still being really you know,
I bring levity to situations. That's one of my superpowers.
It doesn't mean being serious and losing my personality. It
means just knowing when to play the card right.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
I can imagine hearing feedback like that could feel like
it's an attack on you and your personality. How do
you work through applying the feedback as opposed to I
don't know, getting really defensive and going no, no, that's
a part of me. You're asking me to fundamentally change.
Speaker 2 (14:44):
So do you know why I think I remember that
particular piece of feedback so well is because he coupled
it with my strength, and he said, you have this
fire in your belly. I love it. You have this
commercial acumen. I love it. People will follow you. Don't
stuff it up like it's and so it kind of
(15:08):
appreciated who I was, and it like it really affirmed
all of the good things about my personality. And the
same time as him coming across, as I'm giving you
this as a gift, Right, it's always going to sting
to hear feedback that, even if it's just constructive stuff
about the way you run a meeting, or if it's
got nothing to do with your personality, good feedback I
(15:31):
think has to sting. Otherwise it's not going to be
heard or felt right Otherwise, I think you're in ruinos
empathy mode. But you know, I think over the years,
you realize that you're only getting that feedback because someone
really cares about your development. Right, if you go through
(15:51):
a relationship with a boss or with an employee, and
all you ever say to them is you're great, don't
worry about it. That there's a version of that that's like, well,
I don't really care, you know, keep doing what you're doing.
You lean in when you really care about someone.
Speaker 1 (16:07):
Now you have a coach, and I think it's really
hard finding a good I mean it's hard finding those
good kind of like support people in your life, whether
it's a therapist, a psychologist, a coach. How did you
find your coach?
Speaker 2 (16:23):
Well, Google actually put me in touch with my coach,
and it started out as quite a specific purpose. So
I had just taken on a new role, like an
expanded role, and the leadership team, the leadership development team,
came and said, hey, you know you're about to do
this thing. Would you like to have a coach for
a couple of sessions just to kind of bang some
(16:44):
stuff out? And I was like, yeah, sure, great, and
we just hit it off. And so I think at
the end of every ten sessions, I would go begging
and pleading to please, can I keep the coach? And
they'd be like yeah, yeah, yeah, And then you know,
I think it's only ten years now, that I've had
the same coach and he's incredible.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
Yeah, tell me what are some of the most important
things that he's taught you and helped you with?
Speaker 2 (17:10):
Ah, well, jeez, again, this is a whole other podcast.
The most impactful one, like the one that has changed
me the most, is coming to groups with that in
a critic. Right, So I have a tendency to be
quite catastrophic, and I have a tendency to make it
(17:31):
all my fault in my mind, and he has just
been so instrumental in helping me come to terms with that,
but not not by ignoring it, by accepting that that's
a huge part of who I am, being proud of
why that is there, and then just being great at
(17:53):
consciously pushing it to the back. So I'll give you
an example. You know, something goes wrong, my brain goes,
this is all your fault, Like, how did you get
the white? Did you found? I'm now able to go
this is what you do all the time. The reason
why you do that is because you've got really high
standards and you don't ever want to be the person
(18:14):
who has let the team down. But here the voice
know that it's probably going to be ten times more
than the reality of the situation. Put it back, turn
the volume down on that voice. Go. So he gave
me like a bus visual, Like you're driving the bus
and there's someone who's like screaming in your ear, just
send them to the back of the bus. That has
(18:36):
completely changed me, completely changed who I am and the
way I think about myself and the way I judge myself.
Made me so much more confident in myself because I'm
actually proud now that I have that little voice. I'm
proud that it keeps me grounded, like it keeps me hungry,
(18:57):
and it pushes me, but it can also bring me
all the way down. If I don't watch.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
It, we will be back with Melson talking about how
she approaches people development in a really simple but really
impactful way. If you're looking for more tips to improve
the way you work can live. I write a short
weekly newsletter that contains tactics I've discovered that have helped
(19:25):
me personally. You can sign up for that at Amantha
dot com. That's Amantha dot com. Now I know that
you're really passionate about people development and you have office hours, Yesordre,
can you tell me about that?
Speaker 2 (19:44):
So office hours is a couple of half hour slots
every week that anyone can just book and come in.
I actually just came off the back of some the
Melbourne office and look, ninety percent of the time people
are having a career conversation. So they sometimes they'll bring
in a performance development plan, or they'll bring in their
(20:05):
kind of goals and we'll chat them through. Or they'll
have a job that they're thinking about that they want
to kind of bash out so people can use them
for whatever they want. But most of the time it
is about people development. I mean, I think you know,
I have been at Google for a long time and
I've had sort of two stints in the Australia team,
(20:27):
and you know, we've done incredible things, and we've built
wonderful products, and we've helped advertisers all around the country.
But man, the dopamine hits when you see someone who
you hired sixteen years ago become a director, or you
see them in a job that's in a completely different
(20:48):
team and they are just nailing it. I don't think
there's a better dopamine hit that you get from seeing
that and knowing and because we have a culture where
that sort of seeking advice and helping and coaching is
part of the part of it, the full circle, like
people thank you for it. They come back and they
(21:10):
or they write you a card or you know, little
things like that, and you don't do it for that,
but you do feel like it's just a whole new
source of I don't know, inspiration and gratitude, and yeah,
it's my favorite thing to do. It's one of the
things that fills the cup, not grains the cup. And
(21:30):
that's kind of you know, in terms of managing your energy,
I think in senior roles, you do have to kind
of go in knowing that if I just go with
the flow here, my energy will be completely depleted at
the end of every day. So what am I actively
doing to top it up? Office hours is one of them.
Speaker 1 (21:50):
Yeah, Now you're a parent as well. You have three
kids and two ten and thirteen, I think their ages.
It said that you have a weekly spreadsheet with your
partner to manage everything parenting.
Speaker 2 (22:06):
Can you tell me what that looks like? So it's
a spreadsheet with a few tabs, so you know, there
was actually a new tab added last week because I
was away and there was just a whole bunch of
stuff that was going on. And you know, it's like
military kind of level logistics when you have a teenager,
(22:28):
a tween, and a toddler. And so for my husband
having to do all three, like look after all three
of them last week on his own, that was like major.
So there were you know, maybe a couple of times
there were ubers involved in bringing children school, but you know,
(22:50):
there was like an early netball camp, and there was
you know, tapping into the network of amazing mothers that
support each other in this sort of world. You know,
like so this person's picking up this child for that
day and this, you know, so it was just kind
of it's just a matter of putting it all on
one piece of paper. You know, we're both busy people, right,
so just having a go to on your phone that
(23:11):
you can go, yep, this is what's going on today
is just easier. But you know, on the other spreadsheet,
there's here's the homework that this middle one needs to
get done this week, and this is what we need
to check at the end of every day. And you know,
so look it's just logistics, man. I mean it probably
(23:33):
speaks to some sort of control thing that I have.
It feels better once you've written it down, you know,
and you've got the structure and you know it's doable.
Otherwise you just think it's impossible.
Speaker 1 (23:46):
M How do you think about parenting and the time
that you do spend with your kids, given like you're
in a job that's demanding and that requires travel.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
Yeah, well, you know, I try. I just try to
be as present as I can. I don't win all
the time, but it's about finding those moments that matter.
I think when you're you know, so I pick up
my daughter from school on a certain day and that's
just like not negotiable, and that's our time together. You know.
(24:21):
I do nepple on the weekends. I mean, it's a
great way just to connect with other parents, but for
her to know that Mum sees me there, that's really important.
I drive my eldest son to school and that's really
good chat time because he's at the age of he
doesn't want to necessarily look you in the face all
(24:42):
the time. But you know, that's our connection time. It's
about making the time you have work. You know. I
grew up in a household where my mum ran a
small business. You know, our loundroom was the boardroom, it
was the oper ration center, you know. And so I
(25:04):
think I had a kind of good schooling in Hey,
this is mum time and sometimes mum's got meetings at night.
And it doesn't mean that I ever thought she was
less of a mumm. So I mean, yeah, I don't know.
I just I feel like there's all this kind of
pressure about how mums should be and all this kind
(25:26):
of stuff. I just want to be the mum they
call when something goes wrong. That's kind of my north star.
And so how do you cultivate that relationship over the
course of you know, probably thirteen or fourteen years by
the time they start getting into those situations being the
(25:46):
one that they can talk to. So I don't pride
myself on necessarily have we made cookies today? Yes, great,
we've made cookies today. And great if you make cookies
like that, if that's your thing with your kids, awesome.
But for me, it's just about making sure individually they
have some time with one another and knowing. I think
(26:06):
the beauty of the smaller child is that he's given
us this perspective that life changes a lot. You know,
there's a big difference between eight and ten. There's a
big difference between one and three. And so you know,
like if we're in a crazy phase now, it'll be
(26:28):
really different in six months time. So let's not beat
ourselves up over the factor what we can and can't do.
And if I've got to travel this week, that doesn't
delete every bit of parenting that we've done the week before.
Speaker 1 (26:39):
You know, So, what are your principles around technology and
screens for your kids?
Speaker 2 (26:48):
Yeah, I mean it's a fascinating question because I've got
three kids and they are all super different, right and again, phases,
reasons and seasons. There was definitely I've always sort of
had that he's the rope, like you stuff it up,
basically like I'm going to trust you. Here are the boundaries,
(27:09):
and if you break them, then I pull back. But
I guess the first principle is I don't believe that
it's evil. I believe that. You know, my son when
he was little, learned how to sing, you know, let
it go in twenty five languages by watching YouTube. He
(27:30):
now he is really into art, so he will sit
there and watch videos about how to draw an eye.
I think that's a good use of screen time. If
he also then watches anime, and so I don't think
it's a one size fits all. I think it's what
you're doing on there. My daughter is at a different
(27:53):
phase in her life and it's completely different usage, and
so it requires a completely different style. And so it's
almost like leadership at work, as horrible as that might sound,
but there's no one size fits all. It's like, what
motivates you is not what motivates another person. And the
things that we need to develop with you are different
(28:15):
to the things that we need to develop with the
other one. So I think it's about being a little
bit more nuanced. But the reality is technology is going
to be part of their world. So I want them
to be the boss of their boundaries, just like I
want my folks at work to be the boss of
their boundaries as well.
Speaker 1 (28:33):
Something I've been thinking and writing a lot about this
here is health, and that's the topic of the current
book that I'm working on. And I'm curious, like, in
amongst all the different responsibilities that you have, where does
looking after both physical and mental health for you? How
do you think about that? And where do you find time?
Speaker 2 (28:50):
Such a great timely question. So I actually was lucky
enough yesterday to interview James Clear for an event we
had here in Melbourne. And I'm a huge fan of
that book. But earlier this well, actually, when I came
back from matt Lbs sort of the beginning of last year,
(29:11):
while I was on maternity lab, I had the best
sort of regime of my life. I was walking every day,
I was yogaing every day, I was exercising every day.
I you know, like I had time to cook really
great healthy meals. Like the yoga was the mental health
break as well. Everyone was at home, so I got
breaks from the you know, I was living my best life,
(29:32):
let's just put it that way. And I came back
to work and Amantha, it just all vanished. It just
all slipped away. And despite the best of intentions like Okay,
I'm going to get up a five point thirty and
I'm going to do yoga and I'm going to do
Mama forget it right. And of course it takes me
(29:53):
about six months to kind of realize that that's happening.
And so I read Atomic Habits and I thought, Okay,
I'm going to do this, like one percent of thing.
I'm just going to try. I'm just want to master
the art of showing up, and it's actually in the diary.
It's the hack for me has been I bought myself
a new fit bed, so I've gamer fighter. I've made
(30:14):
it attractive and made it sort of quite obvious. When
there is a half an hour break in my diary,
I leave the office and I go walk twice around
the block. When I spoke to you, I was walking
around the block, and so that's where I'm at right now.
But I've also realized that in a year's time, when
the baby's a little bit older, that these things become easier, right,
(30:38):
And so I'm just not I'm just being kind to myself,
to be honest. But the identity that I'm trying to
kind of manifest is I want to master the art
of showing up. I want to take advantage of the
moments that I have, and I just want to be
the sort of person that takes time for themselves. A
lot of anger that I hear from i'm working mums
(31:01):
is everybody takes from me, and I just I just
don't want to ever kind of foster that resentment. I
just I want to be even if it's five minutes,
that's enough, you know, I've done, like I've dropped one
of my kids off really early in the morning, just
done a sneaky trip down to this cliff, sat there
(31:22):
for five minutes. How did a quick little meditation. That's enough.
That's enough right now, So it's going to be kind
to myself. I love that, Mel.
Speaker 1 (31:34):
For people that want to connect with you, what is
the best way to do that?
Speaker 2 (31:39):
Well, LinkedIn is wide open, baby. LinkedIn is definitely the
best of plays because I do keep the other socials
private just because you know, I want to be able
to send photos of my kids to my mum. Had
of being open to the whole universe to see. But yeah,
(32:03):
for sure on LinkedIn, and it's a very busy channel.
I can imagine. I can imagine.
Speaker 1 (32:08):
I feel like you're about to be inundated with many
messages on LinkedIn. Mel, this has just been such an
absolute joy. As I said, when we connected, and fratuitously
we got connected by someone at Google. You've been on
kind of my hit list in my mind for how
I work for a while now, and I'm so glad
that we could make this happen. It's just been just
(32:30):
a joy to hear about how you think about Work.
Speaker 2 (32:32):
Thanks, aman there's been so wonderful to be here.
Speaker 1 (32:35):
I hope that you enjoyed this chat with Mel I
must say she was such fun to talk to and
her energy, I must say, is so contagious. If you
enjoyed this episode and you know someone else who would benefit,
why not share it with them? And if you're enjoying
How I Work, I'd love it if you could take
(32:57):
a few seconds to leave a review in the Apple
Podcasts app or wherever you listen to this podcast from
Thank you for sharing part of your day with me
by listening to How I Work. If you're keen for
more tips on how to work better, connect with me
via LinkedIn or Instagram. I'm very easy to find. Just
search for Amantha Imba. How I Work was recorded on
(33:22):
the traditional land of the Warrenery people, part of the
cool And Nation. I am so grateful for being able
to work and live on this beautiful land and I
want to pay my respects to elder's past, present and emerging.
How I Work is produced by Inventium with production support
from Dead Set Studios.
Speaker 2 (33:42):
The producer for this episode
Speaker 1 (33:43):
Was Liam Riordan and thank you to Martin Nimba, who
did the audio mix and makes everything sound better than
it would have otherwise.
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