November 5, 2025 • 26 mins
Last week, I shared part one of my conversation with my teammate Aly Solly from Inventium. We unpacked some of the lessons from 2024 - our toughest year yet.
After the cracks and burnout of 2024, this episode is all about how we rebuilt trust, reset our culture, and found our way back to being a team again.
Aly and I talk about the offsite that changed everything, the small rituals that reconnected us, and how we learned to speak openly - even when it felt uncomfortable.
We also discuss:
- The “Deal or No Deal” moment that clarified who was really in for the rebuild.
- Simple but powerful rituals - like our Team Health Monitor and Monday meeting questions - that strengthened connection.
- The pivotal offsite that helped the team confront the past and name the elephants in the room.
- How the team rebuilt trust through shared ownership and reflection instead of blame.
- Signs that things had genuinely changed.
- Why rebuilding trust starts with leaders taking emotional risks.
KEY QUOTES
“Trust isn’t rebuilt by policies or posters. It’s rebuilt by people taking small emotional risks again and again.”
“Your vulnerability allowed us to be vulnerable. It reminded us that we were all on the same boat again.”
Every Monday, we start our team meeting with one random question to break the ice and reconnect as humans. Here are a few of the questions we’ve loved:
- If you could have any superpower for a day, what would it be?
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
If you tuned into How I Work last week, you
will have heard part one of this conversation, where I
interviewed one of my teammates at Inventium, Ali Sully, about
twenty twenty four, which definitely was the hardest year I've
been through in business, and certainly the hardest year our
culture has been through. Today, we are exploring how trust
(00:23):
was rebuilt after this very crappy year. Together, Alie and
I unpack how we hit reset. We look at the
offsite that really changed everything, the tiny rituals that rebuilt connection,
and the moment I realized that my fear of saying
the wrong thing had finally disappeared. If you've ever wondered
(00:45):
how do you turn a fractured team back into a
thriving one, then I think you'll find today's conversation very helpful.
Welcome to How I Work, a show about habits, rituals,
(01:05):
and strategies.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
For optimizing your date.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
I'm your host, Doctor Amantha Imber. I want to talk
about some of the things that we've done differently this
year in twenty twenty five, and as you've talked about,
there were moments in twenty twenty four that were really fundamental,
you know, particularly for us in our working relationship, but
(01:29):
as a team. You know, one of the things I
was mindful of with you know, a slightly new combination
of people going into the new year together is that
we needed to do a reset, and we needed to
talk about what are the behaviors that we want more of,
and what are the ones that we just absolutely do
not accept anymore, like this individualism that had become the
(01:52):
way that some people had worked and that were so
not invent here. And so we came together for a
couple of days face to face, and that's really important
when you're a remote first team and we all work
from all over the place wherever we want. And we
had an external facilitator, which I also think was helpful,
just having someone who could be objective and help guide
(02:14):
us through. How was that experience for you, that reset, Like,
what were those moments where you thought, yeah, this is
really helpful.
Speaker 3 (02:20):
I think for me, the reflection my fear going into
that was that we were going to look to the future,
plan for the future without looking at the past. And
I think it was really helpful for us to spend
a good amount of time venting and not venting that's
the wrong word, probably just naming the elephant in the room,
(02:42):
because we had all carried the load and there was
some scar tissue there, so actually identifying that and then
working from that to build something else, and so I
think that was really important.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
Yeah, I remember, I can't remember who was. Someone commented
on the fact that I was being very very open
about my experience for twenty twenty four, which I hadn't
been during the year, and I didn't feel safe doing that.
And also as a leader, you also you know, you
know so much in confidence that you can't share, and
so it's kind of it's always I find that there's
(03:19):
a fine line between and particularly now because I think
I've learned even though it's stuff we teach clients like
sometimes it just takes that lived experience to really settle
in your body and go, I need to be a
lot more open, but you know, in an appropriate, non emotional,
dumpy kind of way. I think that was helpful. I
(03:41):
think the choices that I made around sharing a lot
more than I had shared about my experience of the
year that had been I think was also quite helpful
in building that trust and sych safety.
Speaker 3 (03:53):
And I think knowing that you know, you had made
some decisions with you'd use some strategies earlier at the
end of the previous year. That meant that when I
walked in the room, I knew that everyone was there
and was on board as well. So I think there
was that vulnerability, and your vulnerability allowed us to be
(04:15):
vulnerable in the room. But it was also that feeling
that when we were going through those tough times, I
didn't know who was on the boat and who was
on the rescue raft. So we were all sailing along,
but I didn't know who was about to zip off.
And I remember, sorry going in hindsight again, but that
moment where you pulled out the deal or no deal
(04:39):
and sat down with us around you know, are you
in or are you out? And really drew a line
in the sand that I think was such a fundamental
thing for that January offsite to go, hey, we're all
on the boat together, no one's on the lifeboat.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
And for context what this deal or no deal thing was.
And I'd used it once before it invent him where
this is maybe like six or seven years ago, where
we've been through a ton of change, and I should
preface this with speak to unemployment lawyer. Don't do anything
illegal if you're a leader or a business owner. But
it was essentially in a way that was legally appropriate
(05:15):
giving people the option to go, look, if this is
not for you, I'll give you a like, you know,
a payout that makes sense and we can just part ways. Like,
I only want people who are genuinely here, because it's
really really hard to rebuild if you've got people that
are kind of on the fence. And I think by
(05:36):
January we were all one hundred percent yeah, where yes,
we are rebuilding this together. Yeah, yeah, yeah. For me,
that was really really important. It would have been a
much harder job to do if there was still like
a couple of people that were like, yeah, I'll wait
and see.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
You know.
Speaker 1 (05:55):
You know, there's other things that I think have been helpful,
and these are I think of them as more they're important,
but they're you know, perhaps more sort of not micro strategies,
but they're certainly rituals I guess that we've had in
place this year that I think have served us really well.
So one of the things that we do about every
six to eight weeks, more realistically every eight weeks, is
that we have a Team Health Monitor, and this was
(06:17):
inspired from what Alassian do around their It might be
called their Team Health Monitor as well. I think we
call it. I can't remember the difference in language, but anyway,
it was inspired by a Lassian where as a team,
it doesn't really make sense for us to do an
engagement survey because there's just not enough data and then
it's easy to identify people and the data and that
then defeats the purpose of collecting data a lot of
(06:40):
the time. So instead what we do is we gather
and this is almost always I think always done in
person where we will gather as a team. There are
about ten different dimensions that we go through, such as safety,
ways of working, how we communicate sort of like work
(07:04):
life balance, workloads, set of stuff. And with each of
those dimensions we do a thumbs up, although there's also
a two thumbs up score as well. There's like a
thumbs horizontal which is neutral, and then there's a thumbs down,
which is we've got a problem. And at the KNA three,
like rock paper scissors, we all give our actions and
(07:24):
then we talk about it and like if it's all good,
we don't spend that much time talking about it. But
where where there's a mix of like neutral and thumbs down,
we then go through okay, how are we each feeling,
because often we'll have, you know, different experiences or perceptions
of the same dimension, and then at the end of it,
we'll we'll prioritize what are two or three actions that
(07:47):
we can take. What's that experience been like for you.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
I've loved it.
Speaker 3 (07:52):
It's incredibly simple, And what I love about it is
that with engagement surveys any sort of serve the nuances
in the question are never really talked about. So what's
one score for another one person maybe different for another
on very different reasons based on the nuances of the question.
(08:13):
So when we started introducing this and we talked about
our work life balance and what came up was a
real mixture. And what it turned out to be was
that some people were thinking about it as far as
I've got balance to go to pick up my kids.
Other people it was around the four day work week,
so everyone was looking at it completely different. And I
(08:37):
saw that across this year with lots of different questions
where we started really picking into okay, why is that
so and taking action straight away, So rather than a survey,
coming back and then analyzing results, coming back to the
team with the results, discussing it and losing all this time. Well,
I love about it is that we make decisions on
the spot around it. We can be there right there.
(09:00):
And I think one of them that came up earlier
in the year was around I've forgotten what the actual
category is, but it's really about that celebration and recognition.
And I had been a bit on the fence with that.
Everyone else felt great, and I thought, we don't actually
have a mechanism. We do pump each other up a lot,
but we don't have a mechanism in place that is consistent.
(09:22):
And so then off the back of that came out
values and the Values Awards and a few other things
that came out of that.
Speaker 1 (09:30):
I think that's such a good point, and particularly for
the leaders listening that leading a team within a much
larger company, where you might go, well, I'm just at
the mercy of the engagement surveys that HR or the
PNC team put out once a year, or maybe you know,
a couple of times a year. It's something that any
leader of a team can do to get an immediate
(09:54):
check on what's the vibe of the team right now,
and it's also in their control to take a media action,
because I think that has got to be one of
the biggest complaints and problems with engagement surveys, where you
do the survey and then maybe two months later you
may or may not get told what the results were,
and then maybe a month or two after that something
might change, Yeah, but generally it doesn't.
Speaker 3 (10:15):
Yeah, And the decisions are made often in the ivory tower.
So when you're all in the room and you're understanding
the stories and narratives around what's happening for that person
or those people, and then ideating around how we can
solve for that in the room with those people, you
get real impactful strategies out of it, rather than those
(10:37):
assumptions that often happen as a result of the engagement surveys.
Speaker 1 (10:41):
Certainly, something that I think about a lot is meetings
and our team meeting on Monday because it's the only
scheduled time that we have as a team to all
gather synchronously so live, and something I will often do
is we record those meetings because often they might be
(11:02):
you know, one person that can't attend and we're a
Microsoft organization, and so we use teams to record it,
and I will often look back over the image, like
if you have a team's premium subscription, it will analyze
who spoken when, and I'll often look back over that
(11:22):
to see what percentage of the time was I speaking
in these meetings, And when I see that it was
majority me talking for me, that is a flag to go, oh,
I am not sharing in our face synchronously. I've obviously
defaulted to information sharing mode, which we tell all our
clients don't do that. Meetings for discussion and debate, they
(11:45):
are not for sharing information. And I'll often then like
lean into LOOM more so. LOOM is like screen and
video recording software that is wonderful for asynchronous updates, and
I'm really mindful of that. I think something else that
we do in our team meetings that is really small
and sounds I don't know, it can sound quite simplicity,
(12:07):
but I actually think it's helped a lot is that
at the top of our team meeting agenda. And I
think Jem put all these questions in are just these
very random, interesting questions that we all answer as a team,
like what's your experience of that being like yeah, I
don't know if one stands out one of those questions.
Speaker 3 (12:26):
Yeah. Yeah, it's been so interesting, you know, talking about
skills that we wish that we had, or just this week,
we were talking about, you know, if you could change
jobs into a different job for the week, and we
had you know, red bull athletes and we had you know,
just such an insight and you know, we've got people
(12:46):
that are living in coastal locations that don't like water,
Like I never would have known that, You're right, So
just some random things that come out, and it's been
such a good way to really quickly get to know
not the person as the job title, and you know,
we often find out about their family and things like that,
(13:08):
but really the things that make people tick and the
things that are unique about them, you know that I
think really does build that connection.
Speaker 1 (13:19):
Yeah. It's funny, like if someone would have told me
that that would make a big difference, because I feel
like it's so I feel like a COVID cliche to go,
let's just start with some random question. But I'm always
like really pleasantly surprised as to what comes out. I'm
just thinking what other cause I'm sure listeners will be thinking. Okay,
tell us some of the questions. Shall we see how
(13:40):
many we can remember?
Speaker 2 (13:43):
Gosh, there's been some good ones over that time.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
I think we've had superpower, Like what superpower would you have?
There's also one around if you were going to be
arrested for a crime or that was a time one
would it be? That was?
Speaker 3 (13:56):
Yes, leaving the binting things into the bins of other
people's bins? Yes, Yeah, Oh gosh, there's been You know,
if you were a billionaire tomorrow, what would be the
first unnecessary thing you'd spend money on?
Speaker 1 (14:16):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (14:16):
Lots of Gosh, we might have to add some of these.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
Yeah, maybe I'll try to remember to put some in
the show notes. Yeah. It's easy to talk about culture
when everything feels light and fun, but the real test
comes when things go wrong. Coming up, Allie and I
go deeper into how we rebuild things, from redefining trust
and role clarity to spotting the small moments that prove
a team has changed. You will hear about our Christmas outfits,
(14:44):
tough feedback, and the one conversation that flipped everything from
blame to learning. If you're looking for more tips to
improve the way you work, can Live. I write a
short weekly newsletter that contains tactics I've discovered that have
helped me personally. You can sign up for that at
Amantha dot com. That's Amantha dot Com. Something else that
(15:12):
I think is useful is that we I think we
do reflect quite a lot as a team, and I
know something that we're planning to do I think in
a couple of weeks time is a post mortem. And
you know, we earlier in the year we had someone
you joined the team, and it felt like a kind
of fly by the seat of your pants induction because
we're all quite busy, and that's why we've you know,
(15:34):
we've hired someone and I know that they've, like you know,
they've reflected on what worked, what didn't work. And so
what we're planning to do is having a post mortem,
which I love because it's the chance for us to
really deliberately dissect what will we do differently next time
in a way that isn't about pointing blame, but just
unpacking the process.
Speaker 3 (15:55):
You've just sparked my mind with how far we've come
as a in relation to the onboarding process.
Speaker 2 (16:02):
And I remember a moment where.
Speaker 3 (16:05):
I gave some feedback and thought, gosh, that didn't hit.
I'm feeling terrible about how I went about that. I
was flustered and moving from meeting to meeting, and I
actually called you and went, I don't know what to do.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
I feel like I just got a vibe.
Speaker 3 (16:21):
It didn't hit. What can I do? And even that moment,
that action, compared to where we were a year ago,
where I probably would have called one of my confidence
and gone, oh, well, that was a complete disaster. I
was actually able to get some advice and then you said, well,
go back to them and say, gee, that felt like
it was a flop. What can I do better? And
(16:42):
I love that about how we work and reflect.
Speaker 1 (16:45):
I'm curious for you allie. What have been some of
the signs that things have changed.
Speaker 3 (16:53):
So one more recently is we had the Christmas in
July celebrations and we all came together in our Christmas outfits,
so we all decided it was not forced on people.
We all decided as a team, yes, this is what
we want to do. So even that in itself last
year we had the same conversation and most of the
(17:13):
team decided, no, I don't want to do it.
Speaker 1 (17:16):
I've forgotten that yeah, so everyone was on board.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
Now. I remember when I rocked up. I had a.
Speaker 3 (17:23):
Christmas outfit that I'd had made that had everyone's photo
on it, and I rocked up and you were standing
in front of me as a tree.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
Christmas and Neo in.
Speaker 3 (17:36):
A full suit with Christmas fit and Hannah. Hannah walked
in and she said, oh, I've really underdone it. And
I loved that moment for her in that we all
had a choice that morning of like do I choose
safety or do I just lean into the fun And
(17:59):
we all grabbed it two hands and just leapt in.
Speaker 1 (18:04):
I think something that like we've always talked about at
Inventum that we assume positive intent. But I think they
just got to a point where that was like I
think people sometimes assumed the opposite, Yeah, whereas I think
now and I'll often hear it in conversation, you know,
in terms of like there's always a choice in terms
of how you can interpret something like whether it be
(18:25):
you know, a piece of feedback or an email or
an opinion, Like you've always got the choice to assume
like were they just having a bad day but they
did mean positive intent? Or are they just really deep
down they're just a bitch. And I think that that
has genuinely changed.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (18:44):
I think getting to know each other and being vulnerable
with each other to really speak up, and that has
allowed us to get to know each other on a
personal level. And I say that in the it's not
all you know, coffee and cakes at lunchtime can't getting
to know you. It's like really getting to know the
core of the person as good and the intentions being good.
Speaker 2 (19:07):
So I think we all.
Speaker 3 (19:09):
Know who's in our team and we know, you know,
rather than if someone says something a bit off, it's
more of a signal are they okay, rather than it
being oh.
Speaker 1 (19:21):
Wow, they're very awful person.
Speaker 2 (19:23):
Yeah. Yes, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (19:26):
I also think one thing that's changed a lot is
the clarity that we bring to our roles. When there
was complete chaos, there was an opportunity for us to
reinvent how we work together, what energizes us, and again
get to know each other about what we bring. School wise,
if I think back how I was working the middle
(19:47):
of last year, I was really doing a lot of
things that I wasn't even employed to do, a lot
of things that really deenergized me. And I remember having
this moment with you and talking about the energy circles,
and you say, well, I don't.
Speaker 2 (20:00):
I'm doing that. Give that bit to me.
Speaker 3 (20:01):
And we've reshuffled and jigsawed around, and I think now
a really good sign of our culture is that we
know our lane ways, and whilst we're in our lane ways,
we know that we've got the skills and the energy
now to help each other when we need to step
across into the other lane ways. So that's certainly something
(20:21):
that I've seen that's really different. All the jigsaw puzzle
pieces fit together into a high performing team rather than
the jagged edges that don't quite fit.
Speaker 1 (20:32):
I know, for me, one of the signs that, oh yeah,
things have really changed is that that fear of cancelation
that I had last year is just no longer here.
And it's ironic because I am much more open and
honest about things and you know, my experiences than I
was last year. And I'm like, that's fine, Like I
(20:55):
won't get canceled for this because I know my team
really understand where I'm coming from and that I do
have the best intentions.
Speaker 3 (21:02):
You know.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
Like there have been a couple of times where sometimes
on how I work where I am dipping into the
inventium experience and certainly my experience. I sometimes feel a
bit nervous that I've made a bad judgment call on
what I should include and what should just remain on
the cutting room floor. And I know I've run a
(21:23):
couple of episodes by you, Ali and by someone else
on the team, and I've had no qualms in like you,
hearing the whole cut and then being able to just
trust your judgment to just go yeah, maybe just leave
that bit out, which I know for me has been
really valuable. But it's also just like such a sign
that the trust is there.
Speaker 3 (21:44):
Yeah, I think all of us take much more personal
risk with each other, even on our personal WhatsApp now
equal contributions and fun and games on there that maybe
we weren't doing as much last year as well.
Speaker 1 (22:00):
Well.
Speaker 3 (22:00):
I was even thinking about your birthday gift that Hannah
and I plotted behind the scenes. Anyone that doesn't know
Amantha doesn't necessarily want grand Final tickets to the AFL,
but I mean, you know, I won't shut you off
from that, but we thought we could we do that's
really going to make her think, And we came up
(22:23):
with it kind of design this beautiful VIP experience at
the AFL, knowing we bought a present that you actually
would like. And I said to my husband last night,
that is such a sign of the psychological safety in
our team that I would never have done that last year.
I was still a bit worried about you opening it
(22:45):
up and thinking we didn't know you.
Speaker 1 (22:46):
Had seen eight thousand dollars Grand Final ticket email in
my inbox Happy birthday.
Speaker 3 (22:52):
Yes, but the fact that we can have fun like that.
And again, if you didn't know that we were all
acting with positive intent, you would have thought, what have
they done?
Speaker 2 (23:03):
But you knew straightaway, didn't you idea?
Speaker 1 (23:06):
Oh my god, I kissed myself. Yeah, that was very,
very funny. I think something useful to end on because
I imagine, you know, there are probably listeners hearing these
stories and going, my team's great, but thanks for the lessons.
And then I imagine there's probably other listeners that are like,
I feel like my team is where you guys were
(23:26):
out last year. Where do I even start to change?
Speaker 3 (23:31):
What would your advice be bringing the team along for
the ride like you did with keeping the conversation open
rather than stepping in and solving it for the team,
getting them involved and accountable for that.
Speaker 2 (23:45):
The role clarity knowing where we step together and where.
Speaker 3 (23:50):
We have it on our own, and I think that's
really really important. But also building that trust with each other,
and that's such a hard thing to do, but it
does start with that vulnerability of getting together and also
knowing there's no one going to be backstabbing you or
jumping off the boat. So I really think that clarity
(24:12):
around you know, are you in the team or are
you out? And what does it look like if you're out?
And what do we do about that? And being really
clear about that, although you know there's very very hard
to do as a leader, it's a the yucky position
to be in, but to really draw the line as
a team around what behaviors do we accept and what
(24:35):
happens if we see behaviors that we don't accept, and
how do we speak up about that?
Speaker 1 (24:40):
I love those things. I think the one thing I
would add is I think for leaders, it's really hard
to build trust unless you're willing to take an emotional risk.
I think if you're not willing to do that, it's
almost impossible to build trust. And I think about that
session that we had in August around the well being survey,
(25:02):
and I kind of felt like that was probably and
I didn't realize it at the time, but that was
a bit of a fork in the road moment. You know,
our relationship probably could have gone down different paths, you know,
had I not made that choice to just be really
open with where I was, which was not in a
great place. So my advice would be to start to
(25:22):
take those small emotional risks where you can, because I
think they really pay off. Yeah, Allie, thank you so
much for joining me today getting behind the mic. I've
loved this conversation and I just think there are so
many people that will just really value the things that
we've talked about, make them feel like they're not alone,
and hopefully give them some practical ways through whatever they're
(25:45):
in right now.
Speaker 2 (25:46):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (25:47):
Trust isn't rebuilt by policies or posters. It's rebuilt by
people taking small emotional risks again and again. The next
time you feel tempted to hold back in a tough conversation,
try what we learned at Invent Him, Lead with honesty,
and invite others to meet you there. If you missed
(26:09):
part one of my chat with Ali, go back and
take a listen. There is a link in the show
notes because it's where the cracks first appear and the
lessons begin. And if you're new here, follow How I
Work for more honest conversations about what it really takes
to lead, especially when things get hard. If you like
today's show, make sure you hit follow on your podcast
(26:30):
app to be alerted when new episodes drop. How I
Work was recorded on the traditional land of the Warrangery people,
part of the Cooler Nation
If you tuned into How I Work last week, you
will have heard part one of this conversation, where I
interviewed one of my teammates at Inventium, Ali Sully, about
twenty twenty four, which definitely was the hardest year I've
been through in business, and certainly the hardest year our
culture has been through. Today, we are exploring how trust
(00:23):
was rebuilt after this very crappy year. Together, Alie and
I unpack how we hit reset. We look at the
offsite that really changed everything, the tiny rituals that rebuilt connection,
and the moment I realized that my fear of saying
the wrong thing had finally disappeared. If you've ever wondered
(00:45):
how do you turn a fractured team back into a
thriving one, then I think you'll find today's conversation very helpful.
Welcome to How I Work, a show about habits, rituals,
(01:05):
and strategies.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
For optimizing your date.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
I'm your host, Doctor Amantha Imber. I want to talk
about some of the things that we've done differently this
year in twenty twenty five, and as you've talked about,
there were moments in twenty twenty four that were really fundamental,
you know, particularly for us in our working relationship, but
(01:29):
as a team. You know, one of the things I
was mindful of with you know, a slightly new combination
of people going into the new year together is that
we needed to do a reset, and we needed to
talk about what are the behaviors that we want more of,
and what are the ones that we just absolutely do
not accept anymore, like this individualism that had become the
(01:52):
way that some people had worked and that were so
not invent here. And so we came together for a
couple of days face to face, and that's really important
when you're a remote first team and we all work
from all over the place wherever we want. And we
had an external facilitator, which I also think was helpful,
just having someone who could be objective and help guide
(02:14):
us through. How was that experience for you, that reset, Like,
what were those moments where you thought, yeah, this is
really helpful.
Speaker 3 (02:20):
I think for me, the reflection my fear going into
that was that we were going to look to the future,
plan for the future without looking at the past. And
I think it was really helpful for us to spend
a good amount of time venting and not venting that's
the wrong word, probably just naming the elephant in the room,
(02:42):
because we had all carried the load and there was
some scar tissue there, so actually identifying that and then
working from that to build something else, and so I
think that was really important.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
Yeah, I remember, I can't remember who was. Someone commented
on the fact that I was being very very open
about my experience for twenty twenty four, which I hadn't
been during the year, and I didn't feel safe doing that.
And also as a leader, you also you know, you
know so much in confidence that you can't share, and
so it's kind of it's always I find that there's
(03:19):
a fine line between and particularly now because I think
I've learned even though it's stuff we teach clients like
sometimes it just takes that lived experience to really settle
in your body and go, I need to be a
lot more open, but you know, in an appropriate, non emotional,
dumpy kind of way. I think that was helpful. I
(03:41):
think the choices that I made around sharing a lot
more than I had shared about my experience of the
year that had been I think was also quite helpful
in building that trust and sych safety.
Speaker 3 (03:53):
And I think knowing that you know, you had made
some decisions with you'd use some strategies earlier at the
end of the previous year. That meant that when I
walked in the room, I knew that everyone was there
and was on board as well. So I think there
was that vulnerability, and your vulnerability allowed us to be
(04:15):
vulnerable in the room. But it was also that feeling
that when we were going through those tough times, I
didn't know who was on the boat and who was
on the rescue raft. So we were all sailing along,
but I didn't know who was about to zip off.
And I remember, sorry going in hindsight again, but that
moment where you pulled out the deal or no deal
(04:39):
and sat down with us around you know, are you
in or are you out? And really drew a line
in the sand that I think was such a fundamental
thing for that January offsite to go, hey, we're all
on the boat together, no one's on the lifeboat.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
And for context what this deal or no deal thing was.
And I'd used it once before it invent him where
this is maybe like six or seven years ago, where
we've been through a ton of change, and I should
preface this with speak to unemployment lawyer. Don't do anything
illegal if you're a leader or a business owner. But
it was essentially in a way that was legally appropriate
(05:15):
giving people the option to go, look, if this is
not for you, I'll give you a like, you know,
a payout that makes sense and we can just part ways. Like,
I only want people who are genuinely here, because it's
really really hard to rebuild if you've got people that
are kind of on the fence. And I think by
(05:36):
January we were all one hundred percent yeah, where yes,
we are rebuilding this together. Yeah, yeah, yeah. For me,
that was really really important. It would have been a
much harder job to do if there was still like
a couple of people that were like, yeah, I'll wait
and see.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
You know.
Speaker 1 (05:55):
You know, there's other things that I think have been helpful,
and these are I think of them as more they're important,
but they're you know, perhaps more sort of not micro strategies,
but they're certainly rituals I guess that we've had in
place this year that I think have served us really well.
So one of the things that we do about every
six to eight weeks, more realistically every eight weeks, is
that we have a Team Health Monitor, and this was
(06:17):
inspired from what Alassian do around their It might be
called their Team Health Monitor as well. I think we
call it. I can't remember the difference in language, but anyway,
it was inspired by a Lassian where as a team,
it doesn't really make sense for us to do an
engagement survey because there's just not enough data and then
it's easy to identify people and the data and that
then defeats the purpose of collecting data a lot of
(06:40):
the time. So instead what we do is we gather
and this is almost always I think always done in
person where we will gather as a team. There are
about ten different dimensions that we go through, such as safety,
ways of working, how we communicate sort of like work
(07:04):
life balance, workloads, set of stuff. And with each of
those dimensions we do a thumbs up, although there's also
a two thumbs up score as well. There's like a
thumbs horizontal which is neutral, and then there's a thumbs down,
which is we've got a problem. And at the KNA three,
like rock paper scissors, we all give our actions and
(07:24):
then we talk about it and like if it's all good,
we don't spend that much time talking about it. But
where where there's a mix of like neutral and thumbs down,
we then go through okay, how are we each feeling,
because often we'll have, you know, different experiences or perceptions
of the same dimension, and then at the end of it,
we'll we'll prioritize what are two or three actions that
(07:47):
we can take. What's that experience been like for you.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
I've loved it.
Speaker 3 (07:52):
It's incredibly simple, And what I love about it is
that with engagement surveys any sort of serve the nuances
in the question are never really talked about. So what's
one score for another one person maybe different for another
on very different reasons based on the nuances of the question.
(08:13):
So when we started introducing this and we talked about
our work life balance and what came up was a
real mixture. And what it turned out to be was
that some people were thinking about it as far as
I've got balance to go to pick up my kids.
Other people it was around the four day work week,
so everyone was looking at it completely different. And I
(08:37):
saw that across this year with lots of different questions
where we started really picking into okay, why is that
so and taking action straight away, So rather than a survey,
coming back and then analyzing results, coming back to the
team with the results, discussing it and losing all this time. Well,
I love about it is that we make decisions on
the spot around it. We can be there right there.
(09:00):
And I think one of them that came up earlier
in the year was around I've forgotten what the actual
category is, but it's really about that celebration and recognition.
And I had been a bit on the fence with that.
Everyone else felt great, and I thought, we don't actually
have a mechanism. We do pump each other up a lot,
but we don't have a mechanism in place that is consistent.
(09:22):
And so then off the back of that came out
values and the Values Awards and a few other things
that came out of that.
Speaker 1 (09:30):
I think that's such a good point, and particularly for
the leaders listening that leading a team within a much
larger company, where you might go, well, I'm just at
the mercy of the engagement surveys that HR or the
PNC team put out once a year, or maybe you know,
a couple of times a year. It's something that any
leader of a team can do to get an immediate
(09:54):
check on what's the vibe of the team right now,
and it's also in their control to take a media action,
because I think that has got to be one of
the biggest complaints and problems with engagement surveys, where you
do the survey and then maybe two months later you
may or may not get told what the results were,
and then maybe a month or two after that something
might change, Yeah, but generally it doesn't.
Speaker 3 (10:15):
Yeah, And the decisions are made often in the ivory tower.
So when you're all in the room and you're understanding
the stories and narratives around what's happening for that person
or those people, and then ideating around how we can
solve for that in the room with those people, you
get real impactful strategies out of it, rather than those
(10:37):
assumptions that often happen as a result of the engagement surveys.
Speaker 1 (10:41):
Certainly, something that I think about a lot is meetings
and our team meeting on Monday because it's the only
scheduled time that we have as a team to all
gather synchronously so live, and something I will often do
is we record those meetings because often they might be
(11:02):
you know, one person that can't attend and we're a
Microsoft organization, and so we use teams to record it,
and I will often look back over the image, like
if you have a team's premium subscription, it will analyze
who spoken when, and I'll often look back over that
(11:22):
to see what percentage of the time was I speaking
in these meetings, And when I see that it was
majority me talking for me, that is a flag to go, oh,
I am not sharing in our face synchronously. I've obviously
defaulted to information sharing mode, which we tell all our
clients don't do that. Meetings for discussion and debate, they
(11:45):
are not for sharing information. And I'll often then like
lean into LOOM more so. LOOM is like screen and
video recording software that is wonderful for asynchronous updates, and
I'm really mindful of that. I think something else that
we do in our team meetings that is really small
and sounds I don't know, it can sound quite simplicity,
(12:07):
but I actually think it's helped a lot is that
at the top of our team meeting agenda. And I
think Jem put all these questions in are just these
very random, interesting questions that we all answer as a team,
like what's your experience of that being like yeah, I
don't know if one stands out one of those questions.
Speaker 3 (12:26):
Yeah. Yeah, it's been so interesting, you know, talking about
skills that we wish that we had, or just this week,
we were talking about, you know, if you could change
jobs into a different job for the week, and we
had you know, red bull athletes and we had you know,
just such an insight and you know, we've got people
(12:46):
that are living in coastal locations that don't like water,
Like I never would have known that, You're right, So
just some random things that come out, and it's been
such a good way to really quickly get to know
not the person as the job title, and you know,
we often find out about their family and things like that,
(13:08):
but really the things that make people tick and the
things that are unique about them, you know that I
think really does build that connection.
Speaker 1 (13:19):
Yeah. It's funny, like if someone would have told me
that that would make a big difference, because I feel
like it's so I feel like a COVID cliche to go,
let's just start with some random question. But I'm always
like really pleasantly surprised as to what comes out. I'm
just thinking what other cause I'm sure listeners will be thinking. Okay,
tell us some of the questions. Shall we see how
(13:40):
many we can remember?
Speaker 2 (13:43):
Gosh, there's been some good ones over that time.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
I think we've had superpower, Like what superpower would you have?
There's also one around if you were going to be
arrested for a crime or that was a time one
would it be? That was?
Speaker 3 (13:56):
Yes, leaving the binting things into the bins of other
people's bins? Yes, Yeah, Oh gosh, there's been You know,
if you were a billionaire tomorrow, what would be the
first unnecessary thing you'd spend money on?
Speaker 1 (14:16):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (14:16):
Lots of Gosh, we might have to add some of these.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
Yeah, maybe I'll try to remember to put some in
the show notes. Yeah. It's easy to talk about culture
when everything feels light and fun, but the real test
comes when things go wrong. Coming up, Allie and I
go deeper into how we rebuild things, from redefining trust
and role clarity to spotting the small moments that prove
a team has changed. You will hear about our Christmas outfits,
(14:44):
tough feedback, and the one conversation that flipped everything from
blame to learning. If you're looking for more tips to
improve the way you work, can Live. I write a
short weekly newsletter that contains tactics I've discovered that have
helped me personally. You can sign up for that at
Amantha dot com. That's Amantha dot Com. Something else that
(15:12):
I think is useful is that we I think we
do reflect quite a lot as a team, and I
know something that we're planning to do I think in
a couple of weeks time is a post mortem. And
you know, we earlier in the year we had someone
you joined the team, and it felt like a kind
of fly by the seat of your pants induction because
we're all quite busy, and that's why we've you know,
(15:34):
we've hired someone and I know that they've, like you know,
they've reflected on what worked, what didn't work. And so
what we're planning to do is having a post mortem,
which I love because it's the chance for us to
really deliberately dissect what will we do differently next time
in a way that isn't about pointing blame, but just
unpacking the process.
Speaker 3 (15:55):
You've just sparked my mind with how far we've come
as a in relation to the onboarding process.
Speaker 2 (16:02):
And I remember a moment where.
Speaker 3 (16:05):
I gave some feedback and thought, gosh, that didn't hit.
I'm feeling terrible about how I went about that. I
was flustered and moving from meeting to meeting, and I
actually called you and went, I don't know what to do.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
I feel like I just got a vibe.
Speaker 3 (16:21):
It didn't hit. What can I do? And even that moment,
that action, compared to where we were a year ago,
where I probably would have called one of my confidence
and gone, oh, well, that was a complete disaster. I
was actually able to get some advice and then you said, well,
go back to them and say, gee, that felt like
it was a flop. What can I do better? And
(16:42):
I love that about how we work and reflect.
Speaker 1 (16:45):
I'm curious for you allie. What have been some of
the signs that things have changed.
Speaker 3 (16:53):
So one more recently is we had the Christmas in
July celebrations and we all came together in our Christmas outfits,
so we all decided it was not forced on people.
We all decided as a team, yes, this is what
we want to do. So even that in itself last
year we had the same conversation and most of the
(17:13):
team decided, no, I don't want to do it.
Speaker 1 (17:16):
I've forgotten that yeah, so everyone was on board.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
Now. I remember when I rocked up. I had a.
Speaker 3 (17:23):
Christmas outfit that I'd had made that had everyone's photo
on it, and I rocked up and you were standing
in front of me as a tree.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
Christmas and Neo in.
Speaker 3 (17:36):
A full suit with Christmas fit and Hannah. Hannah walked
in and she said, oh, I've really underdone it. And
I loved that moment for her in that we all
had a choice that morning of like do I choose
safety or do I just lean into the fun And
(17:59):
we all grabbed it two hands and just leapt in.
Speaker 1 (18:04):
I think something that like we've always talked about at
Inventum that we assume positive intent. But I think they
just got to a point where that was like I
think people sometimes assumed the opposite, Yeah, whereas I think
now and I'll often hear it in conversation, you know,
in terms of like there's always a choice in terms
of how you can interpret something like whether it be
(18:25):
you know, a piece of feedback or an email or
an opinion, Like you've always got the choice to assume
like were they just having a bad day but they
did mean positive intent? Or are they just really deep
down they're just a bitch. And I think that that
has genuinely changed.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (18:44):
I think getting to know each other and being vulnerable
with each other to really speak up, and that has
allowed us to get to know each other on a
personal level. And I say that in the it's not
all you know, coffee and cakes at lunchtime can't getting
to know you. It's like really getting to know the
core of the person as good and the intentions being good.
Speaker 2 (19:07):
So I think we all.
Speaker 3 (19:09):
Know who's in our team and we know, you know,
rather than if someone says something a bit off, it's
more of a signal are they okay, rather than it
being oh.
Speaker 1 (19:21):
Wow, they're very awful person.
Speaker 2 (19:23):
Yeah. Yes, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (19:26):
I also think one thing that's changed a lot is
the clarity that we bring to our roles. When there
was complete chaos, there was an opportunity for us to
reinvent how we work together, what energizes us, and again
get to know each other about what we bring. School wise,
if I think back how I was working the middle
(19:47):
of last year, I was really doing a lot of
things that I wasn't even employed to do, a lot
of things that really deenergized me. And I remember having
this moment with you and talking about the energy circles,
and you say, well, I don't.
Speaker 2 (20:00):
I'm doing that. Give that bit to me.
Speaker 3 (20:01):
And we've reshuffled and jigsawed around, and I think now
a really good sign of our culture is that we
know our lane ways, and whilst we're in our lane ways,
we know that we've got the skills and the energy
now to help each other when we need to step
across into the other lane ways. So that's certainly something
(20:21):
that I've seen that's really different. All the jigsaw puzzle
pieces fit together into a high performing team rather than
the jagged edges that don't quite fit.
Speaker 1 (20:32):
I know, for me, one of the signs that, oh yeah,
things have really changed is that that fear of cancelation
that I had last year is just no longer here.
And it's ironic because I am much more open and
honest about things and you know, my experiences than I
was last year. And I'm like, that's fine, Like I
(20:55):
won't get canceled for this because I know my team
really understand where I'm coming from and that I do
have the best intentions.
Speaker 3 (21:02):
You know.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
Like there have been a couple of times where sometimes
on how I work where I am dipping into the
inventium experience and certainly my experience. I sometimes feel a
bit nervous that I've made a bad judgment call on
what I should include and what should just remain on
the cutting room floor. And I know I've run a
(21:23):
couple of episodes by you, Ali and by someone else
on the team, and I've had no qualms in like you,
hearing the whole cut and then being able to just
trust your judgment to just go yeah, maybe just leave
that bit out, which I know for me has been
really valuable. But it's also just like such a sign
that the trust is there.
Speaker 3 (21:44):
Yeah, I think all of us take much more personal
risk with each other, even on our personal WhatsApp now
equal contributions and fun and games on there that maybe
we weren't doing as much last year as well.
Speaker 1 (22:00):
Well.
Speaker 3 (22:00):
I was even thinking about your birthday gift that Hannah
and I plotted behind the scenes. Anyone that doesn't know
Amantha doesn't necessarily want grand Final tickets to the AFL,
but I mean, you know, I won't shut you off
from that, but we thought we could we do that's
really going to make her think, And we came up
(22:23):
with it kind of design this beautiful VIP experience at
the AFL, knowing we bought a present that you actually
would like. And I said to my husband last night,
that is such a sign of the psychological safety in
our team that I would never have done that last year.
I was still a bit worried about you opening it
(22:45):
up and thinking we didn't know you.
Speaker 1 (22:46):
Had seen eight thousand dollars Grand Final ticket email in
my inbox Happy birthday.
Speaker 3 (22:52):
Yes, but the fact that we can have fun like that.
And again, if you didn't know that we were all
acting with positive intent, you would have thought, what have
they done?
Speaker 2 (23:03):
But you knew straightaway, didn't you idea?
Speaker 1 (23:06):
Oh my god, I kissed myself. Yeah, that was very,
very funny. I think something useful to end on because
I imagine, you know, there are probably listeners hearing these
stories and going, my team's great, but thanks for the lessons.
And then I imagine there's probably other listeners that are like,
I feel like my team is where you guys were
(23:26):
out last year. Where do I even start to change?
Speaker 3 (23:31):
What would your advice be bringing the team along for
the ride like you did with keeping the conversation open
rather than stepping in and solving it for the team,
getting them involved and accountable for that.
Speaker 2 (23:45):
The role clarity knowing where we step together and where.
Speaker 3 (23:50):
We have it on our own, and I think that's
really really important. But also building that trust with each other,
and that's such a hard thing to do, but it
does start with that vulnerability of getting together and also
knowing there's no one going to be backstabbing you or
jumping off the boat. So I really think that clarity
(24:12):
around you know, are you in the team or are
you out? And what does it look like if you're out?
And what do we do about that? And being really
clear about that, although you know there's very very hard
to do as a leader, it's a the yucky position
to be in, but to really draw the line as
a team around what behaviors do we accept and what
(24:35):
happens if we see behaviors that we don't accept, and
how do we speak up about that?
Speaker 1 (24:40):
I love those things. I think the one thing I
would add is I think for leaders, it's really hard
to build trust unless you're willing to take an emotional risk.
I think if you're not willing to do that, it's
almost impossible to build trust. And I think about that
session that we had in August around the well being survey,
(25:02):
and I kind of felt like that was probably and
I didn't realize it at the time, but that was
a bit of a fork in the road moment. You know,
our relationship probably could have gone down different paths, you know,
had I not made that choice to just be really
open with where I was, which was not in a
great place. So my advice would be to start to
(25:22):
take those small emotional risks where you can, because I
think they really pay off. Yeah, Allie, thank you so
much for joining me today getting behind the mic. I've
loved this conversation and I just think there are so
many people that will just really value the things that
we've talked about, make them feel like they're not alone,
and hopefully give them some practical ways through whatever they're
(25:45):
in right now.
Speaker 2 (25:46):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (25:47):
Trust isn't rebuilt by policies or posters. It's rebuilt by
people taking small emotional risks again and again. The next
time you feel tempted to hold back in a tough conversation,
try what we learned at Invent Him, Lead with honesty,
and invite others to meet you there. If you missed
(26:09):
part one of my chat with Ali, go back and
take a listen. There is a link in the show
notes because it's where the cracks first appear and the
lessons begin. And if you're new here, follow How I
Work for more honest conversations about what it really takes
to lead, especially when things get hard. If you like
today's show, make sure you hit follow on your podcast
(26:30):
app to be alerted when new episodes drop. How I
Work was recorded on the traditional land of the Warrangery people,
part of the Cooler Nation
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The Burden
The Burden is a documentary series that takes listeners into the hidden places where justice is done (and undone). It dives deep into the lives of heroes and villains. And it focuses a spotlight on those who triumph even when the odds are against them. Season 5 - The Burden: Death & Deceit in Alliance On April Fools Day 1999, 26-year-old Yvonne Layne was found murdered in her Alliance, Ohio home. David Thorne, her ex-boyfriend and father of one of her children, was instantly a suspect. Another young man admitted to the murder, and David breathed a sigh of relief, until the confessed murderer fingered David; “He paid me to do it.” David was sentenced to life without parole. Two decades later, Pulitzer winner and podcast host, Maggie Freleng (Bone Valley Season 3: Graves County, Wrongful Conviction, Suave) launched a “live” investigation into David's conviction alongside Jason Baldwin (himself wrongfully convicted as a member of the West Memphis Three). Maggie had come to believe that the entire investigation of David was botched by the tiny local police department, or worse, covered up the real killer. Was Maggie correct? Was David’s claim of innocence credible? In Death and Deceit in Alliance, Maggie recounts the case that launched her career, and ultimately, “broke” her.” The results will shock the listener and reduce Maggie to tears and self-doubt. This is not your typical wrongful conviction story. In fact, it turns the genre on its head. It asks the question: What if our champions are foolish? Season 4 - The Burden: Get the Money and Run “Trying to murder my father, this was the thing that put me on the path.” That’s Joe Loya and that path was bank robbery. Bank, bank, bank, bank, bank. In season 4 of The Burden: Get the Money and Run, we hear from Joe who was once the most prolific bank robber in Southern California, and beyond. He used disguises, body doubles, proxies. He leaped over counters, grabbed the money and ran. Even as the FBI was closing in. It was a showdown between a daring bank robber, and a patient FBI agent. Joe was no ordinary bank robber. He was bright, articulate, charismatic, and driven by a dark rage that he summoned up at will. In seven episodes, Joe tells all: the what, the how… and the why. Including why he tried to murder his father. Season 3 - The Burden: Avenger Miriam Lewin is one of Argentina’s leading journalists today. At 19 years old, she was kidnapped off the streets of Buenos Aires for her political activism and thrown into a concentration camp. Thousands of her fellow inmates were executed, tossed alive from a cargo plane into the ocean. Miriam, along with a handful of others, will survive the camp. Then as a journalist, she will wage a decades long campaign to bring her tormentors to justice. Avenger is about one woman’s triumphant battle against unbelievable odds to survive torture, claim justice for the crimes done against her and others like her, and change the future of her country. Season 2 - The Burden: Empire on Blood Empire on Blood is set in the Bronx, NY, in the early 90s, when two young drug dealers ruled an intersection known as “The Corner on Blood.” The boss, Calvin Buari, lived large. He and a protege swore they would build an empire on blood. Then the relationship frayed and the protege accused Calvin of a double homicide which he claimed he didn’t do. But did he? Award-winning journalist Steve Fishman spent seven years to answer that question. This is the story of one man’s last chance to overturn his life sentence. He may prevail, but someone’s gotta pay. The Burden: Empire on Blood is the director’s cut of the true crime classic which reached #1 on the charts when it was first released half a dozen years ago. Season 1 - The Burden In the 1990s, Detective Louis N. Scarcella was legendary. In a city overrun by violent crime, he cracked the toughest cases and put away the worst criminals. “The Hulk” was his nickname. Then the story changed. Scarcella ran into a group of convicted murderers who all say they are innocent. They turned themselves into jailhouse-lawyers and in prison founded a lway firm. When they realized Scarcella helped put many of them away, they set their sights on taking him down. And with the help of a NY Times reporter they have a chance. For years, Scarcella insisted he did nothing wrong. But that’s all he’d say. Until we tracked Scarcella to a sauna in a Russian bathhouse, where he started to talk..and talk and talk. “The guilty have gone free,” he whispered. And then agreed to take us into the belly of the beast. Welcome to The Burden.