September 3, 2025 • 29 mins
Your colleague doesn’t reply to your email. Days pass. Your mind spins - do they not like me, do they not want me on the project, or are they just busy? It’s these unhelpful stories that quietly drain our energy. But what if there were two simple questions that could reset your perspective in moments like these?
In this episode of How I Work, I sit down with educator and author Lael Stone, whose new book Own Your Story explores how the stories we tell ourselves shape the way we live and work.
Lael shares the two reflection questions she uses daily to interrupt spirals of self-doubt and comparison. She also coaches me through my own struggles while writing my fifth book, showing how shifting perspective can help us feel lighter, more energised, and in flow.
By the end of this chat, you’ll have a practical mental reset you can use any time - whether at work, at home, or in the middle of a 3am overthinking spiral.
We discuss:
- The two questions Lael uses every day to reset perspective
- How to pause spirals of self-doubt with “What am I making this mean?”
- Why “What do I want this to look like?” opens us up to new possibilities
- Lael coaching me through my own writing doubts and pressures
- How comparison keeps us stuck and what to do instead
- The role of childhood imprints in shaping our beliefs about work, money, and relationships
- Why most of us never learned what a healthy boundary looks like - and how to create them as adults
- Why setting boundaries is an act of self-love
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
When we talk about how do we set a boundary
oft On the other side of that is, if I
say no to a colleague, or I say no to
a child, or I say no to my in laws,
then usually the fear is and what are they going
to think of me?
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Imagine this, you send an email days pass by and
no reply. Your mind spins. Do they not like me?
Do they not want me on the project? Or are
they just busy? Today we're exploring how to pause those
spirals with two deceptively simple questions, which we'll get to
(00:36):
in a moment. My guest today is Lael's Stone, an
educator and author of Own Your Story, which is a
brilliant book, who uses these questions daily to shift stories
and reset perspective. I am such a huge fan of
Layelle's work after hearing her speak many years ago on
(00:57):
the Imperfect podcast. In our chat today, Layelle coaches me
through dealing with my own self doubt while writing my
fifth book, and how we can stop draining our energy
with unhelpful stories. By the end of this chat, you
will have a simple mental reset that you can apply
in real time, whether it's at work, with your family
(01:18):
or in those three am overthinking spirals. This is part
one of my conversation with Lael, So if you're new here,
make sure you hit follow or subscribe so you can
listen to part two when it drops next week. Welcome
(01:39):
to How I Work, a show about habits, rituals, and strategies.
Speaker 3 (01:43):
For optimizing your date.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
I'm your host, doctor Amantha Imber. I want to start
off with two of what I think are your favorite
questions to ask, and I love them. You say that
two fundamental reflection questions are what am I making this mean?
(02:06):
And how do I want this to look like? Or
what do I want this to look like? Tell me
how do you use those questions in your life?
Speaker 3 (02:15):
So the first one, what am I making it mean?
For me?
Speaker 1 (02:17):
Is so much about whenever I am activated, triggered, not
in my center. And we know when we're always like that, right,
we know when we're like there's something brewing here or
I'm having a reaction. I always like to pause and go,
what am I making this mean? Because I think behind
our reactions there's always something deeper underneath. And so what
am I making this mean? Can be things like you
(02:39):
know someone didn't you know hasn't returned my email in
a few days and it's, you know, something that I always
asking of them. They haven't returned my email, and all
of a sudden, I'm watching my thoughts go. You know,
they haven't gone back to me. And I often will say,
what am I.
Speaker 3 (02:51):
Making this mean?
Speaker 1 (02:52):
Am I making it mean that they don't want me
to do this project? And they making it mean they
don't like me? Am I making it mean that they're
just too busy? That could be reality? Really is I
think a patent interrupt question to actually get you to
stop and go, what is this story here? So you know,
many years ago where my kids are younger, you know,
when I was at home looking after three kids and
(03:12):
my partner would be late and I'd message him and
he wouldn't message back or whatever. You know, that would
be a what am I making this mean? Well, in
that moment, I was like, if he loved us, he
would be home on time, or you know, I'm doing
all the heavy lifting here and he doesn't respect me,
Like we watch our minds just go to these places
all the time. So for me that what am I
making it mean? Is a beautiful way to actually pause
(03:32):
and stop and go what story am I telling? Myself
about what is happening here, and I find that it
then helps me kind of get a bit clearer on
actually what the reality is and where my mind is
racing too. And you know, whether that's an old belief
system or story, or whether it's something that actually I
do need to lean into. For me, it really is
the first piece around a bit of self reflection around
(03:52):
whatever's going on. So that's the what am I making
it mean?
Speaker 3 (03:55):
But what do I want this to look like? For me?
Speaker 1 (03:58):
It became a bit of a game many many years
ago when I realized just how powerful we actually are.
Right and intention matters a lot in our world, and
often what we think about is often what we look
for evidence to be true, and so we spend a
lot of our time in our heads. Obviously, I really
do believe our body is always listening to what our
mind's got to say. So when there was something I wanted,
(04:19):
or whether there was something that I really wanted to
happen in my world, I would ask that question, what
do I want it to look like? Which I think
invokes the intention of dreaming, of possibility of opening ourselves
up to a bigger, wider possibility than just the reality
that we think is there. So I used to play
it even in the simplest things. I've had to ring
up and make an appointment for the doctor. I was like,
(04:41):
what do I want this to look like? I want
there to be an appointment at three o'clock on Wednesday, right,
or just random? I would play it with random things
like that, and sometimes it works, sometimes it didn't. But
what do I want it to look like? Is really
more around am I stuck in a loop of story,
a belief system, something that's keeping me limited? What would
I want it to look like? What would be amazing?
Because I found from working with a lot of people
(05:02):
but also with my own story, that we limit ourselves
in our thinking often, and we also we're hardwired to
go towards the negative because you know, we're often so
much more safer in what we know, and even if
that doesn't service, you know, it's familiar, I get it.
So we often can just repeat those loops. So for me,
the what do I want this to look like? Is
just an expansive question of like, well, let's get rid
(05:24):
of all the limitations that we think and say, well,
what could be possible here? And then I think it
opens us up to being open to other possibilities, to
meeting people, to being a bit brave and taking steps
towards asking for something or you know, other things in
our world. So they are my two favorite questions, which
I would probably use most days most days.
Speaker 2 (05:44):
Wow, Okay, I am wondering if we could do like
a mini therapy.
Speaker 3 (05:48):
Sushion totally ethical use.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
Because, as you know, as we're just talking about before
we started recording, I feel like I'm gripped by self doubt.
In the middle of my fifth book, and the other
four came out, I feel like, actually relatively easily, and
they felt hard at the time, but now compared to
this fifth book, I'm really like every day it just
feels like a battle, and I'm like, can I do this?
(06:14):
Can I meet the deadline? And I've never really had
thoughts like that when I've been writing. So how would
you advise me those questions?
Speaker 3 (06:21):
Well, let's firstly.
Speaker 1 (06:22):
Start, so, what are the thoughts that are going through
your head, like in the stuckness at the moment with
the book, right, what are the thoughts that are unsensored
if you can, if you're willing to share that are
going through your head?
Speaker 2 (06:33):
What are you saying, I'm saying several things. I'm saying
the book has to be brilliant, like it has to
be exceptional, it has to be my best work.
Speaker 3 (06:42):
Yes, And I say that.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
And I try to challenge that thinking, and I'm like, no,
like it's you know, it's not a LinkedIn post that
is disposable knowledge. I feel like this is a book
that I'm investing a year to write in, and you know,
a year or two to promote and speak about and
all that sort of stuff. So it's a big investment
of time. And for someone reading a book, that's a
(07:05):
big investment of their time. So the stakes are really high.
So I'm putting a lot of pressure on myself. I
am second guessing myself a lot because I'm still as
I write it. I mean, like I'm sixty thousand ways
in so words is not an issue, Ideas are not
an issue. But I'm trying to work out what is
(07:26):
the best way that this book can flow, What does
the structure look like there is a structure in place,
Like I haven't just adumbed sixty thousand words into a document.
But then I'm guessing myself. And then there's sections that
I've written that I am thinking to myself, I don't
think that fits anymore. But it's really hard when you've developed,
say a whole chapter or a whole idea, to just
(07:49):
rip that out like I'm used to, you know, cutting
and editing. But these are kind of fundamental thoughts. But
then I'm comparing them to other ideas in the book
and I don't actually think they fit together, and I
think they complicated. So this is this is an insight
into the thoughts that I am experiencing daily.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
I mean, there's some beautiful stuff there to work with,
Like you could start with the first place of this
needs to be really good. And so I would firstly go, okay, well,
what if we took away any pressure, It doesn't matter
what anybody thinks about it. What if you looked at
it through the lens of I'm writing this book for
me in the sense of what I believe or what
I've experienced, and if someone likes it someone doesn't, it
(08:26):
doesn't matter, because I mean, I'm sure you're so well
aware when we put that pressure on ourselves if it's
got to be big and it's got to be great
and everyone's got to love it, or it's got to
be another best seller. Then instantly, what we're doing is
we often move out of our instinct and our heart
and we move into it's about everyone else instead of
what's actually here for us. So I love that little
piece of what am I making it mean? Well, I'm
(08:48):
making it mean that it's got to be the best
because you know, this is my fifth book and there's
pressure there and so that's a beautiful story. So then
what I would apply to that is, well, what do
you want it to look like? And so that might
be something like, how do I want to feel in
completing this next chapter, this next little stage of my book. So, yes,
there's maybe the chapter that doesn't work, and yes there's
these pieces here, and there are all things that are
(09:10):
maybe not bad things. There are things that are like
maybe it isn't meant to be here, and maybe this
is the part where the book reveals itself, when you
get to shift and work with it. But my invitation
would be things around, well, what do you want this
to look like? How do you want to feel completing
the rest of this book? And maybe that is the
invitation to go, Actually, yeah, I've lost my thinking and
made it all about what is happening here instead of
(09:31):
actually come back to my CENTI here, come back to
trusting my intuition and what I know, What would it
feel like to be in flow with the rest of
this part of the book right, because it sounds like
there's a bit of pushing up against stuff going on,
And so my question around that, what do I want
this to look like? If I was to say to you, Okay,
you've got another two months to finish on his book,
(09:51):
what do you want that to be? How do you
want to feel writing hand?
Speaker 3 (09:54):
What would you say? I would say I.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
Wanted to feel fun andgizing, and you know which I mean.
The book is all about energy and how to get
your energy back Right now, it's like tearing the energy
out of me. So I think I would like to
feel just really creative and inflow and actually enjoying the
process rather than, you know, on some mornings just really
(10:17):
dreading it but knowing that I just need to keep
doing the.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
Work and maybe the wisdom of the words you've already
written are what you need to listen to, right, Yeah,
you know how we most teach or do what we
most need to know, right, Like I know this even
in writing that book.
Speaker 3 (10:32):
It felt torturous in places because.
Speaker 1 (10:35):
Like the younger parts of me were popping up so prevalent,
like it was just in my face all the time,
and I had to kind of almost go back to
the words i'd written to go, Okay, what are you
making this mean here? What is this looking like? All
that kind of stuff, to integrate it again, to get
back into the flow. And so I always think about
that when we're at these crossroads of stuff and we're
seeing the struggle, and maybe it is about this expectation
(10:58):
of how it's got to be. Maybe it's just that
things do need to change. But I think that question
to come back of, like, Okay, I've got this in
front of me, how do I want to feel? I mean,
I'm sure you know that when you sit down to
write with an intention of this is going to be fun.
I'm going to flow. That is what I'm going to
bring to this experience, we are more likely to follow
that track instead of oh god, three hours to bang
(11:19):
out something else. And God, I'm finding this really frustrating.
You know, there's a lot that we trip ourselves up
on with the intention of what we do. How does
that feel for you?
Speaker 2 (11:28):
It's like it's very freeing, going, Oh, I could actually
change this, I can change. What this means for me
is like kind of makes me excited to get back
to the writing tomorrow.
Speaker 3 (11:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:40):
The other thing I was thinking about the writing process
is really bringing up for me. Like a couple of
nights ago, I was reading like a nonfiction business book
before bed, and I don't normally do that. I normally
read fiction before bed because I find that that just
switches my mind off better. But I read this book
and I won't name it because I did like the
content that pretty basic, but there were things about it
(12:02):
that were really neat that I'm like, oh, this is
so great how it's been packaged and the typesetting, the design,
this feels really kind of fresh and innovative. And I
went to bed going, my book's never going to be
like that, Like it just it feels so messy compared
to how neatly this author has packaged up there they're
(12:22):
thinking and interestingly, perhaps not surprisingly, I woke up in
the morning and I felt so anxious.
Speaker 3 (12:30):
Yes, yes, yeah, And I feel.
Speaker 2 (12:32):
Like I'm just I'm comparing myself too much to like
too often.
Speaker 1 (12:37):
Yeah, And isn't that the way when we lose our center.
I often think this, when we lose our center and
we get influenced by what's going on there, we actually
lose our own magic within it. I always think it's
so hard to see our own work, right. I always
think this because you know, probably for you, the stuff
that you say is so normal for you, right, the
stuff that you guide and teach people with, all that
(12:58):
kind of stuff, it's so innate within you. It doesn't
even feel very special. I remember when I first started
as a speaker, and I remember hearing nik It was
Daniella Laporte, like, you know, she used to be speaker
on the Second for a long time, and I was
an interview with her talking about how before she's about
to go on stage one time she was like, you know,
almost hyperventilating. She had this thing going on, like the
big pressure. And I'm like, remember hearing it going what
(13:21):
like you feel like that, like you've been You're someone
who's been doing it for a long time and you
still have those feelings. I think there's something really powerful
about hearing the humanness of people all the time around
the struggle, the tricky bits, the stuff that we feel.
It's so funny, isn't it. It's my second book and gosh,
you know this is your fifth one. There are always
still the feelings of putting you out and your magic
(13:41):
out in the world. That's not lost to me. Like
every time I've created a new project, i've done something new,
I've often always come back to it takes so much
courage to be brave enough to write a book, to
create a song, to start a business, to do any
of those things. And I think we give ourselves a
hard time because we expect it should be perfect and
it should be ground breaking and everyone should love it,
whereas actually the magic is in the fact that you
(14:04):
said yes and you've actually done it and you've come
through with it. You've actually you've put something out that
you've done it. And for me, I get to this
point out I know, as I'm getting older, I'm like,
it doesn't matter if it's not the best.
Speaker 3 (14:14):
The fact that you actually just did it is a win.
That is the goal.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
If you've ever found yourself comparing your work to someone
else's and coming out on the bottom, stay with us
coming up, Will you talk about how imprints from our
childhood quietly shape your beliefs and why most of us
never learned what a healthy boundary looks like. If you're
(14:40):
looking for more tips to improve the way you work
can live. I write a short weekly newsletter that contains
tactics I've discovered that have helped me personally. You can
sign up for that at Amantha dot com. That's Amantha
dot Com. Now I want to to talk about the
(15:01):
concept of imprints, which is a large part of what
you write about, you know, in your story, and you know,
I guess like what we've been talking about so far
is really influenced by imprints. So to start with what
is an imprint?
Speaker 1 (15:17):
Well, I explained an imprint, it's like a belief system
more story that we take on board from our childhood
that we believe to be true. So we have imprints
around everything. From the moment we're born, we're watching our
family of origin, and so we begin to make sense
of the world through the lens we look through and
watching them. So I give explanations of like, you know,
if you grew up in a family that loved nature
(15:38):
right and it was a really important thing for them
to take care of the environment, that's going to become
an imprint for you. That is kind of an unconscious,
you know, subconscious thing around. Oh, we take care of
the earth. We take care of the environment, because that's
just what your parents or your family of origin really valued.
It might be that your family of origin really were
into helping others and maybe they like to, you know,
(15:59):
donate that time or donate goods, and again something that
you may have watched in your family of origin. Really
it's a beautiful thing to give to others, and that
may be something that you've taken on board. We have
imprints around everything from relationships to money, to success, to
how we feel about our bodies, to food to everything right,
so we watch all these amazing things and some of
them are really brilliant, these imprints, and some of them
(16:21):
make you take risks and you know, work hard and
there's a lot of beauty in it. Equally, we have
imprints that don't service right. And so like some of
the classic ones that often see if you grew up
in a family where emotions we never expressed or never
talked about. Everything was pushed under the rug or you
got shamed when you got upset, then you take on
board an imprinterval it's not okay to feel my feelings
(16:43):
and it's definitely not okay to express them. That's a
big one for a lot of people. If you grew up,
you know, watching your parents and the way they communicated
with each other was to yell at each other at
a time, you know, on some level, your lens becomes, oh,
that's how you do relationships, right. And then you maybe
grow up and you get into a relationship and you
start can you fight and yelling and your partner's not
yelling back, and you're like, well, don't you love me?
(17:03):
Because if you love me, you'd yell at me, right,
this is what equates to love. Or you know, if
we we grow up watching our parents be really tender
and take care of each other, that becomes a bit
of a story around this is what relationship should look like.
So we have them on everything and some service and
some don't. And I think what I have found and
I guess why I've really focused on this on the
book is a lot of my work has really been
(17:24):
around parenting and around helping parents work with their kids.
And so I would work with thousands of parents and
give them tools about how to get their kids to
cooperate and listening to feelings and all that kind of stuff.
But what I found kept tripping people up is no
matter how many tools I gave them, if their imprint
were so deeply entrenched in the disconnection of feelings in
(17:45):
stories around you know, kids must be good, or this
is about respect or whatever, it was, no matter how
many times we talk about those tools, their default was
to go back to what they had been shown. And
so I began to really say, you know, and this
is very true in me any different things, but especially
in parenting. We can turn up and do one thing,
but unless we look at our own story, you know,
(18:06):
that often doesn't hold. And so part of I guess
why this book came about is because working with all
these parents, I began to see that it really was
the imprints that they were modeled when they were younger
that was impacting how they were turning up with their kids.
And then I realized, this is not just about parenting,
this is everything. This is how we turn up in
the workplace, this is how we turn up in our relationships,
this is how we do life. And really a lot
(18:29):
of the imprints that we have are deeply unconscious, we
don't even actually know that they're there. And then when
we do begin to understand or where they've come from
or where they are. Often one of the biggest challenges
is we feel that we're being disloyal to our family
if we begin to change them. And that's a whole
other interesting piece that I've found pops up. If people
are like, yeah, I want to be successful, or I
(18:49):
want to earn money, or I want to start my
own business. But if you come from a family of origin,
that's like, you know, no, no, no, we stick to safe,
secure things, you know, and you only earn this much money,
And this.
Speaker 3 (18:59):
Is what it is.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
We can often feel like we're being disloyal to our
family of origin, so we can sabotage ourselves, or even
our family of origin may tell us we're ridiculous. They
might be like, don't try that, you know, don't take
a risk. You do stuff that is safe, right, And
so these are the stories in the belief systems that
actually keep us pretty small and pretty locked down.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
It's so interesting, like you talk about I think it's
seven types of imprints or themes, I guess, and I
want to talk about some of them. The imprints around
money and work really interesting. And there's a question that
you recommend asking, which I love, which is when the
(19:38):
thought of following your passion comes up, who shows up
in your thinking? Yes, can you tell me about that question?
Speaker 3 (19:44):
Yeah? So I love that question. Again.
Speaker 1 (19:47):
I love asking questions. But this question I often ask
is who's here? Right? So when we're looking at people
are saying, oh, I've always really wanted to start my
own business. So everybody's really wanted to be an artist
or whatever it is, and I'm like, amazing stopping you
and they're like, oh, I just can't get it going,
or you know, there's all these blocks that come up.
So then I invite them to think about, Okay, well,
let's just say that you were an amazing artist or
(20:10):
that you were going to start your own business. If
you were to close your eyes and visualize that, you know,
who walks into the.
Speaker 3 (20:16):
Story right now? Who's here?
Speaker 1 (20:18):
And usually it will be a parent, It'll be maybe
a grandparent, it'll be a teacher. Like usually it's someone
who's had a position of perhaps authority in your life.
And often the message is don't do that, you know,
don't take a risk, don't start that, it's dangerous, all
that kind of stuff.
Speaker 3 (20:33):
So a lot of the.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
Time, we are unconsciously keeping ourselves small in order to
I guess, either stay loyal to that family of origin
or because there's been so much fear put in you
around that's not a safe thing to do. And that's
something that I find quite interesting, and talking about the
flip side of that of in my family of origin,
everybody in my family and almost makes send of family
(20:54):
run their own businesses, Like it's almost a weird thing
if you go and work for someone else, right, Like
we're the opposite of a lot of people. My family's
full of entrepreneurs and people that run their own businesses.
So it's kind of just that, oh, that's what you do.
You don't do it the other way, right, whereas in
other families it looks different. So I think the thing
of who's here is so much about what are the
(21:14):
stories that we tell ourselves in our head around judgment
around I'm not going to get judged if I do this,
you know, do I have a voice in my head
that says this is unsafe to do it? So the
who's here is very much just around Okay, what influence
is coming in and what they're saying is that even true?
Is that an old story. Is it their story they've
got that they're kind of projecting onto you. Let's be
(21:36):
curious around who's here in this bigger picture.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
I want to talk about boundaries because you said in
the book that it's rare for adults to have received
positive imprints around boundaries. Can you tell me a bit
more about that.
Speaker 1 (21:49):
Yeah, So, I think for most of us growing up,
boundaries either look like this, right, So we'd go to
a parent and say, you know, can I go to
the party on the weekend? And maybe one of our
parents would be like no, and you go, but why?
And the response was usually because I said so, and
that was it, right, and then that.
Speaker 3 (22:04):
Was the end of the story.
Speaker 1 (22:05):
And you might have gone, why but I want to go,
and then it was like shut down, right. And then
on the other end of the scale, perhaps boundaries were
very permissive, where you knew that if you asked your
parent from this angle and that angle and you just
kind of worked it a bit, that eventually go, oh fine,
go right, so you could manipulate it to get where
you wanted.
Speaker 3 (22:21):
And so most people had both of those.
Speaker 1 (22:23):
They had the hard you know this is what it is,
or really permissive boundary and when we think about an
imprint around boundary. What a healthy boundary is, right as
an adult, is when we say no to something. So
I'll talk in the context of a child. We might
say no, you can't go to the party on the weekend,
and then the child might be like, but why I
really want to go? And the next step we do
is and you can tell me how you feel about it, right,
(22:45):
So I am saying no, but I get that you're upset,
so you can tell me how you feel about it,
and in that moment we're allowed to go. It's not
fair everybody else is going I feel like I'm going
to miss out, you know, And the parent is able
to go, Yeah, I hear you, and it's still a no,
but you can tell me how.
Speaker 3 (22:58):
You feel about it, right.
Speaker 1 (23:00):
So we actually start to have what we call a
healthy boundary, which is we have a clear no, but
it's not from a place of disconnection and power over.
It's from a place of connection that says it's a no,
but I'm happy to hear how you feel around what's
going on, right. So that's kind of more in the
context of a parent and a child. So then when
we're thinking about boundaries too. For a lot of people,
as children, their boundaries were not respected, which means their
(23:22):
parents would just come into their rooms, they would go
through their stuff. Maybe they read your diary, maybe you
shared some private information, and then they went and told
it to all their friends and then you heard them
talking about it. There are many ways that we can
have our boundaries violated as kids, and also too for
many of us, when we were children, we didn't actually
get to say no, because we were taught we had
to be good all the time, even simple things like
(23:44):
go and hug Auntie Janis and you're like, I don't
want to hug Auntie Jennie because she smells like cigarettes
and she's got a beer, right, But we were like, no,
I'm overriding your want and you need to go and
hug her. Like that's a body boundary that often we
weren't respected right as kids, or perhaps when we felt
uncomfortab about something. But no, you must do it because
if this isn't this. And yes, there's times where we
need to encourage children, and there's times where it's important
(24:07):
that we hold that tension for them to move into
doing stuff. It's not that kids get to say this
how I'm doing it, and this is what I want right.
We absolutely need boundaries, but a healthy boundary is something
that most people didn't actually receive growing up, and because
of that, we didn't receive healthy boundaries. We often have
a really hard time setting boundaries as adults. And more
than anything, I see women struggle with this because our
(24:29):
boundaries were often overridden because we were taught to be
very good girls when we were growing up, so we
weren't allowed to get angry, we weren't allowed to have
a big no. We may have got upset, but we
were maybe labeled as being too emotional or difficult, so
we weren't actually respected in what our yes and knows were.
And what I have found in my work is that
a lot of women, particularly have a very hard time
(24:50):
knowing what they're yes and their no is and then
actually setting the boundary. And because when we talk about
how do we set a boundary, often the other side
of that is if I say no to a colleague,
or I say no to a child, or I say
no to my in laws, then usually the fear is
and what are they going to think of me, you know?
Or will they not like me anymore? Will they not
love me anymore, or they not think I'm a hard worker,
(25:12):
or and often it becomes our default becomes all about
outsourcing our worth to what everybody else thinks. So it's
so often intertwined with many other layers of I guess
the ways we were raised, And of course our parents
and grandparents are doing the best job they know how,
but often for a lot of people, we were raised
in environments where we were taught that it's about keeping
(25:32):
everybody else happy, and that doesn't work well when it
comes to boundaries.
Speaker 2 (25:36):
So what advice do you find yourself giving people? And
I'm thinking particularly these women that are not great at
certain boundaries, and you know, I can definitely relate to that.
Speaker 1 (25:46):
Yeah, yeah, oh that was my story For a long time.
I had absolute rubbish boundaries, to the point where, you know,
if a client had to rung me and said can
we do a session at ten thirty at night, I'd go, oh, okay,
then you know, if that's what they want.
Speaker 3 (25:56):
I'm like, what what was I thinking?
Speaker 2 (25:58):
Right?
Speaker 1 (25:58):
That it was so about needing everybody else's approval or
keeping everybody else happy, that I didn't actually know how
to have my own boundary So for me, I look
at boundaries when someone struggles with it, and I bring
it back to what we want to see boundaries as
is an act of self love, is an act of
claiming our own space. And again, most of us weren't
taught that, hey, you are worthy of having that right
(26:20):
because it's often been about keeping everyone else happy. So
I often say to people, we want to start with
setting boundaries in ways that are small, because we need
to look for the evidence that it's safe for us
to do it. So it might be if you're a
parent and you've got to your kids pick up from
school and someone comes over and it's like, I need
eighty cupcakes by tomorrow right now. You might be like, oh, okay, okay,
(26:41):
I'll do it. But if it's a no, and usually
I say, if there's a should there, I should do this,
then it should be a no or we need to
pause that. What we want to be able to do
in that moment is say, actually, I can't do that.
This isn't going to work for me right now. That
might feel deeply uncomfortable, particularly if we've got a story
about letting people down. Now, the reality is the school mum,
you will probably just go and find someone else to
(27:01):
see if they can do it right. But we have
to sit with the tension and the uncomfortableness of they
may not like me in saying no, and we have
to start creating evidence that hey, we're still okay when
we say no. Because here's the thing with changing any
of our imprints. We can talk about what we want
it to be and how we want to change it,
but we often have to take steps forward and look
for the evidence that it is safe to change it.
(27:23):
And a lot of the time, because you know, it's
the younger parts of us that usually rule and dictate
our behavior, they are looking for reassurance that it's safe
for us to do it because a lot of often
what turns up is even though we are adults, it's
usually the yinner child and the younger parts of us
that are usually calling the shots, and their map of
the world usually comes from when we were younger and
(27:45):
when they were basically going, hey, it's not safe for
me to say no because I'm five, and really, at
this point in time, my survival is based all on
attachment and achievement. So if I say no to you
and my parent gets angry, well, that's a risk to
my life. So I have to be good and I
have to do what you say. And I think a
lot of the work is sometimes helping us understand that
(28:05):
we're actually an adult. We can say no, we have power,
we can leave, and if this person doesn't like me,
then that is okay.
Speaker 3 (28:12):
That's on them.
Speaker 1 (28:13):
But it takes practice and it takes a little bit
of work to be able to get to that space.
Speaker 2 (28:18):
What stayed with me most from this conversation is Lael's
reminder that setting boundaries isn't about keeping people out. It's
actually an act of self love. So next time you
feel that reflexive I should say yes, just pause and try,
Actually I can't do that right now, and then notice
(28:40):
that you're still okay. Remember to follow or subscribe because
part two of this interview comes out next week, and
if this episode resonated, please share it with a friend
who you think would also benefit from it. If you
like today's show, make sure you follow on your podcast
app to be alerted when new episodes drop. How I
(29:01):
Work was recorded on the traditional land of the Warrangery People,
part of the Kohen Nation.
When we talk about how do we set a boundary
oft On the other side of that is, if I
say no to a colleague, or I say no to
a child, or I say no to my in laws,
then usually the fear is and what are they going
to think of me?
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Imagine this, you send an email days pass by and
no reply. Your mind spins. Do they not like me?
Do they not want me on the project? Or are
they just busy? Today we're exploring how to pause those
spirals with two deceptively simple questions, which we'll get to
(00:36):
in a moment. My guest today is Lael's Stone, an
educator and author of Own Your Story, which is a
brilliant book, who uses these questions daily to shift stories
and reset perspective. I am such a huge fan of
Layelle's work after hearing her speak many years ago on
(00:57):
the Imperfect podcast. In our chat today, Layelle coaches me
through dealing with my own self doubt while writing my
fifth book, and how we can stop draining our energy
with unhelpful stories. By the end of this chat, you
will have a simple mental reset that you can apply
in real time, whether it's at work, with your family
(01:18):
or in those three am overthinking spirals. This is part
one of my conversation with Lael, So if you're new here,
make sure you hit follow or subscribe so you can
listen to part two when it drops next week. Welcome
(01:39):
to How I Work, a show about habits, rituals, and strategies.
Speaker 3 (01:43):
For optimizing your date.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
I'm your host, doctor Amantha Imber. I want to start
off with two of what I think are your favorite
questions to ask, and I love them. You say that
two fundamental reflection questions are what am I making this mean?
(02:06):
And how do I want this to look like? Or
what do I want this to look like? Tell me
how do you use those questions in your life?
Speaker 3 (02:15):
So the first one, what am I making it mean?
For me?
Speaker 1 (02:17):
Is so much about whenever I am activated, triggered, not
in my center. And we know when we're always like that, right,
we know when we're like there's something brewing here or
I'm having a reaction. I always like to pause and go,
what am I making this mean? Because I think behind
our reactions there's always something deeper underneath. And so what
am I making this mean? Can be things like you
(02:39):
know someone didn't you know hasn't returned my email in
a few days and it's, you know, something that I always
asking of them. They haven't returned my email, and all
of a sudden, I'm watching my thoughts go. You know,
they haven't gone back to me. And I often will say,
what am I.
Speaker 3 (02:51):
Making this mean?
Speaker 1 (02:52):
Am I making it mean that they don't want me
to do this project? And they making it mean they
don't like me? Am I making it mean that they're
just too busy? That could be reality? Really is I
think a patent interrupt question to actually get you to
stop and go, what is this story here? So you know,
many years ago where my kids are younger, you know,
when I was at home looking after three kids and
(03:12):
my partner would be late and I'd message him and
he wouldn't message back or whatever. You know, that would
be a what am I making this mean? Well, in
that moment, I was like, if he loved us, he
would be home on time, or you know, I'm doing
all the heavy lifting here and he doesn't respect me,
Like we watch our minds just go to these places
all the time. So for me that what am I
making it mean? Is a beautiful way to actually pause
(03:32):
and stop and go what story am I telling? Myself
about what is happening here, and I find that it
then helps me kind of get a bit clearer on
actually what the reality is and where my mind is
racing too. And you know, whether that's an old belief
system or story, or whether it's something that actually I
do need to lean into. For me, it really is
the first piece around a bit of self reflection around
(03:52):
whatever's going on. So that's the what am I making
it mean?
Speaker 3 (03:55):
But what do I want this to look like? For me?
Speaker 1 (03:58):
It became a bit of a game many many years
ago when I realized just how powerful we actually are.
Right and intention matters a lot in our world, and
often what we think about is often what we look
for evidence to be true, and so we spend a
lot of our time in our heads. Obviously, I really
do believe our body is always listening to what our
mind's got to say. So when there was something I wanted,
(04:19):
or whether there was something that I really wanted to
happen in my world, I would ask that question, what
do I want it to look like? Which I think
invokes the intention of dreaming, of possibility of opening ourselves
up to a bigger, wider possibility than just the reality
that we think is there. So I used to play
it even in the simplest things. I've had to ring
up and make an appointment for the doctor. I was like,
(04:41):
what do I want this to look like? I want
there to be an appointment at three o'clock on Wednesday, right,
or just random? I would play it with random things
like that, and sometimes it works, sometimes it didn't. But
what do I want it to look like? Is really
more around am I stuck in a loop of story,
a belief system, something that's keeping me limited? What would
I want it to look like? What would be amazing?
Because I found from working with a lot of people
(05:02):
but also with my own story, that we limit ourselves
in our thinking often, and we also we're hardwired to
go towards the negative because you know, we're often so
much more safer in what we know, and even if
that doesn't service, you know, it's familiar, I get it.
So we often can just repeat those loops. So for me,
the what do I want this to look like? Is
just an expansive question of like, well, let's get rid
(05:24):
of all the limitations that we think and say, well,
what could be possible here? And then I think it
opens us up to being open to other possibilities, to
meeting people, to being a bit brave and taking steps
towards asking for something or you know, other things in
our world. So they are my two favorite questions, which
I would probably use most days most days.
Speaker 2 (05:44):
Wow, Okay, I am wondering if we could do like
a mini therapy.
Speaker 3 (05:48):
Sushion totally ethical use.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
Because, as you know, as we're just talking about before
we started recording, I feel like I'm gripped by self doubt.
In the middle of my fifth book, and the other
four came out, I feel like, actually relatively easily, and
they felt hard at the time, but now compared to
this fifth book, I'm really like every day it just
feels like a battle, and I'm like, can I do this?
(06:14):
Can I meet the deadline? And I've never really had
thoughts like that when I've been writing. So how would
you advise me those questions?
Speaker 3 (06:21):
Well, let's firstly.
Speaker 1 (06:22):
Start, so, what are the thoughts that are going through
your head, like in the stuckness at the moment with
the book, right, what are the thoughts that are unsensored
if you can, if you're willing to share that are
going through your head?
Speaker 2 (06:33):
What are you saying, I'm saying several things. I'm saying
the book has to be brilliant, like it has to
be exceptional, it has to be my best work.
Speaker 3 (06:42):
Yes, And I say that.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
And I try to challenge that thinking, and I'm like, no,
like it's you know, it's not a LinkedIn post that
is disposable knowledge. I feel like this is a book
that I'm investing a year to write in, and you know,
a year or two to promote and speak about and
all that sort of stuff. So it's a big investment
of time. And for someone reading a book, that's a
(07:05):
big investment of their time. So the stakes are really high.
So I'm putting a lot of pressure on myself. I
am second guessing myself a lot because I'm still as
I write it. I mean, like I'm sixty thousand ways
in so words is not an issue, Ideas are not
an issue. But I'm trying to work out what is
(07:26):
the best way that this book can flow, What does
the structure look like there is a structure in place,
Like I haven't just adumbed sixty thousand words into a document.
But then I'm guessing myself. And then there's sections that
I've written that I am thinking to myself, I don't
think that fits anymore. But it's really hard when you've developed,
say a whole chapter or a whole idea, to just
(07:49):
rip that out like I'm used to, you know, cutting
and editing. But these are kind of fundamental thoughts. But
then I'm comparing them to other ideas in the book
and I don't actually think they fit together, and I
think they complicated. So this is this is an insight
into the thoughts that I am experiencing daily.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
I mean, there's some beautiful stuff there to work with,
Like you could start with the first place of this
needs to be really good. And so I would firstly go, okay, well,
what if we took away any pressure, It doesn't matter
what anybody thinks about it. What if you looked at
it through the lens of I'm writing this book for
me in the sense of what I believe or what
I've experienced, and if someone likes it someone doesn't, it
(08:26):
doesn't matter, because I mean, I'm sure you're so well
aware when we put that pressure on ourselves if it's
got to be big and it's got to be great
and everyone's got to love it, or it's got to
be another best seller. Then instantly, what we're doing is
we often move out of our instinct and our heart
and we move into it's about everyone else instead of
what's actually here for us. So I love that little
piece of what am I making it mean? Well, I'm
(08:48):
making it mean that it's got to be the best
because you know, this is my fifth book and there's
pressure there and so that's a beautiful story. So then
what I would apply to that is, well, what do
you want it to look like? And so that might
be something like, how do I want to feel in
completing this next chapter, this next little stage of my book. So, yes,
there's maybe the chapter that doesn't work, and yes there's
these pieces here, and there are all things that are
(09:10):
maybe not bad things. There are things that are like
maybe it isn't meant to be here, and maybe this
is the part where the book reveals itself, when you
get to shift and work with it. But my invitation
would be things around, well, what do you want this
to look like? How do you want to feel completing
the rest of this book? And maybe that is the
invitation to go, Actually, yeah, I've lost my thinking and
made it all about what is happening here instead of
(09:31):
actually come back to my CENTI here, come back to
trusting my intuition and what I know, What would it
feel like to be in flow with the rest of
this part of the book right, because it sounds like
there's a bit of pushing up against stuff going on,
And so my question around that, what do I want
this to look like? If I was to say to you, Okay,
you've got another two months to finish on his book,
(09:51):
what do you want that to be? How do you
want to feel writing hand?
Speaker 3 (09:54):
What would you say? I would say I.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
Wanted to feel fun andgizing, and you know which I mean.
The book is all about energy and how to get
your energy back Right now, it's like tearing the energy
out of me. So I think I would like to
feel just really creative and inflow and actually enjoying the
process rather than, you know, on some mornings just really
(10:17):
dreading it but knowing that I just need to keep
doing the.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
Work and maybe the wisdom of the words you've already
written are what you need to listen to, right, Yeah,
you know how we most teach or do what we
most need to know, right, Like I know this even
in writing that book.
Speaker 3 (10:32):
It felt torturous in places because.
Speaker 1 (10:35):
Like the younger parts of me were popping up so prevalent,
like it was just in my face all the time,
and I had to kind of almost go back to
the words i'd written to go, Okay, what are you
making this mean here? What is this looking like? All
that kind of stuff, to integrate it again, to get
back into the flow. And so I always think about
that when we're at these crossroads of stuff and we're
seeing the struggle, and maybe it is about this expectation
(10:58):
of how it's got to be. Maybe it's just that
things do need to change. But I think that question
to come back of, like, Okay, I've got this in
front of me, how do I want to feel? I mean,
I'm sure you know that when you sit down to
write with an intention of this is going to be fun.
I'm going to flow. That is what I'm going to
bring to this experience, we are more likely to follow
that track instead of oh god, three hours to bang
(11:19):
out something else. And God, I'm finding this really frustrating.
You know, there's a lot that we trip ourselves up
on with the intention of what we do. How does
that feel for you?
Speaker 2 (11:28):
It's like it's very freeing, going, Oh, I could actually
change this, I can change. What this means for me
is like kind of makes me excited to get back
to the writing tomorrow.
Speaker 3 (11:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:40):
The other thing I was thinking about the writing process
is really bringing up for me. Like a couple of
nights ago, I was reading like a nonfiction business book
before bed, and I don't normally do that. I normally
read fiction before bed because I find that that just
switches my mind off better. But I read this book
and I won't name it because I did like the
content that pretty basic, but there were things about it
(12:02):
that were really neat that I'm like, oh, this is
so great how it's been packaged and the typesetting, the design,
this feels really kind of fresh and innovative. And I
went to bed going, my book's never going to be
like that, Like it just it feels so messy compared
to how neatly this author has packaged up there they're
(12:22):
thinking and interestingly, perhaps not surprisingly, I woke up in
the morning and I felt so anxious.
Speaker 3 (12:30):
Yes, yes, yeah, And I feel.
Speaker 2 (12:32):
Like I'm just I'm comparing myself too much to like
too often.
Speaker 1 (12:37):
Yeah, And isn't that the way when we lose our center.
I often think this, when we lose our center and
we get influenced by what's going on there, we actually
lose our own magic within it. I always think it's
so hard to see our own work, right. I always
think this because you know, probably for you, the stuff
that you say is so normal for you, right, the
stuff that you guide and teach people with, all that
(12:58):
kind of stuff, it's so innate within you. It doesn't
even feel very special. I remember when I first started
as a speaker, and I remember hearing nik It was
Daniella Laporte, like, you know, she used to be speaker
on the Second for a long time, and I was
an interview with her talking about how before she's about
to go on stage one time she was like, you know,
almost hyperventilating. She had this thing going on, like the
big pressure. And I'm like, remember hearing it going what
(13:21):
like you feel like that, like you've been You're someone
who's been doing it for a long time and you
still have those feelings. I think there's something really powerful
about hearing the humanness of people all the time around
the struggle, the tricky bits, the stuff that we feel.
It's so funny, isn't it. It's my second book and gosh,
you know this is your fifth one. There are always
still the feelings of putting you out and your magic
(13:41):
out in the world. That's not lost to me. Like
every time I've created a new project, i've done something new,
I've often always come back to it takes so much
courage to be brave enough to write a book, to
create a song, to start a business, to do any
of those things. And I think we give ourselves a
hard time because we expect it should be perfect and
it should be ground breaking and everyone should love it,
whereas actually the magic is in the fact that you
(14:04):
said yes and you've actually done it and you've come
through with it. You've actually you've put something out that
you've done it. And for me, I get to this
point out I know, as I'm getting older, I'm like,
it doesn't matter if it's not the best.
Speaker 3 (14:14):
The fact that you actually just did it is a win.
That is the goal.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
If you've ever found yourself comparing your work to someone
else's and coming out on the bottom, stay with us
coming up, Will you talk about how imprints from our
childhood quietly shape your beliefs and why most of us
never learned what a healthy boundary looks like. If you're
(14:40):
looking for more tips to improve the way you work
can live. I write a short weekly newsletter that contains
tactics I've discovered that have helped me personally. You can
sign up for that at Amantha dot com. That's Amantha
dot Com. Now I want to to talk about the
(15:01):
concept of imprints, which is a large part of what
you write about, you know, in your story, and you know,
I guess like what we've been talking about so far
is really influenced by imprints. So to start with what
is an imprint?
Speaker 1 (15:17):
Well, I explained an imprint, it's like a belief system
more story that we take on board from our childhood
that we believe to be true. So we have imprints
around everything. From the moment we're born, we're watching our
family of origin, and so we begin to make sense
of the world through the lens we look through and
watching them. So I give explanations of like, you know,
if you grew up in a family that loved nature
(15:38):
right and it was a really important thing for them
to take care of the environment, that's going to become
an imprint for you. That is kind of an unconscious,
you know, subconscious thing around. Oh, we take care of
the earth. We take care of the environment, because that's
just what your parents or your family of origin really valued.
It might be that your family of origin really were
into helping others and maybe they like to, you know,
(15:59):
donate that time or donate goods, and again something that
you may have watched in your family of origin. Really
it's a beautiful thing to give to others, and that
may be something that you've taken on board. We have
imprints around everything from relationships to money, to success, to
how we feel about our bodies, to food to everything right,
so we watch all these amazing things and some of
them are really brilliant, these imprints, and some of them
(16:21):
make you take risks and you know, work hard and
there's a lot of beauty in it. Equally, we have
imprints that don't service right. And so like some of
the classic ones that often see if you grew up
in a family where emotions we never expressed or never
talked about. Everything was pushed under the rug or you
got shamed when you got upset, then you take on
board an imprinterval it's not okay to feel my feelings
(16:43):
and it's definitely not okay to express them. That's a
big one for a lot of people. If you grew up,
you know, watching your parents and the way they communicated
with each other was to yell at each other at
a time, you know, on some level, your lens becomes, oh,
that's how you do relationships, right. And then you maybe
grow up and you get into a relationship and you
start can you fight and yelling and your partner's not
yelling back, and you're like, well, don't you love me?
(17:03):
Because if you love me, you'd yell at me, right,
this is what equates to love. Or you know, if
we we grow up watching our parents be really tender
and take care of each other, that becomes a bit
of a story around this is what relationship should look like.
So we have them on everything and some service and
some don't. And I think what I have found and
I guess why I've really focused on this on the
book is a lot of my work has really been
(17:24):
around parenting and around helping parents work with their kids.
And so I would work with thousands of parents and
give them tools about how to get their kids to
cooperate and listening to feelings and all that kind of stuff.
But what I found kept tripping people up is no
matter how many tools I gave them, if their imprint
were so deeply entrenched in the disconnection of feelings in
(17:45):
stories around you know, kids must be good, or this
is about respect or whatever, it was, no matter how
many times we talk about those tools, their default was
to go back to what they had been shown. And
so I began to really say, you know, and this
is very true in me any different things, but especially
in parenting. We can turn up and do one thing,
but unless we look at our own story, you know,
(18:06):
that often doesn't hold. And so part of I guess
why this book came about is because working with all
these parents, I began to see that it really was
the imprints that they were modeled when they were younger
that was impacting how they were turning up with their kids.
And then I realized, this is not just about parenting,
this is everything. This is how we turn up in
the workplace, this is how we turn up in our relationships,
this is how we do life. And really a lot
(18:29):
of the imprints that we have are deeply unconscious, we
don't even actually know that they're there. And then when
we do begin to understand or where they've come from
or where they are. Often one of the biggest challenges
is we feel that we're being disloyal to our family
if we begin to change them. And that's a whole
other interesting piece that I've found pops up. If people
are like, yeah, I want to be successful, or I
(18:49):
want to earn money, or I want to start my
own business. But if you come from a family of origin,
that's like, you know, no, no, no, we stick to safe,
secure things, you know, and you only earn this much money,
And this.
Speaker 3 (18:59):
Is what it is.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
We can often feel like we're being disloyal to our
family of origin, so we can sabotage ourselves, or even
our family of origin may tell us we're ridiculous. They
might be like, don't try that, you know, don't take
a risk. You do stuff that is safe, right, And
so these are the stories in the belief systems that
actually keep us pretty small and pretty locked down.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
It's so interesting, like you talk about I think it's
seven types of imprints or themes, I guess, and I
want to talk about some of them. The imprints around
money and work really interesting. And there's a question that
you recommend asking, which I love, which is when the
(19:38):
thought of following your passion comes up, who shows up
in your thinking? Yes, can you tell me about that question?
Speaker 3 (19:44):
Yeah? So I love that question. Again.
Speaker 1 (19:47):
I love asking questions. But this question I often ask
is who's here? Right? So when we're looking at people
are saying, oh, I've always really wanted to start my
own business. So everybody's really wanted to be an artist
or whatever it is, and I'm like, amazing stopping you
and they're like, oh, I just can't get it going,
or you know, there's all these blocks that come up.
So then I invite them to think about, Okay, well,
let's just say that you were an amazing artist or
(20:10):
that you were going to start your own business. If
you were to close your eyes and visualize that, you know,
who walks into the.
Speaker 3 (20:16):
Story right now? Who's here?
Speaker 1 (20:18):
And usually it will be a parent, It'll be maybe
a grandparent, it'll be a teacher. Like usually it's someone
who's had a position of perhaps authority in your life.
And often the message is don't do that, you know,
don't take a risk, don't start that, it's dangerous, all
that kind of stuff.
Speaker 3 (20:33):
So a lot of the.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
Time, we are unconsciously keeping ourselves small in order to
I guess, either stay loyal to that family of origin
or because there's been so much fear put in you
around that's not a safe thing to do. And that's
something that I find quite interesting, and talking about the
flip side of that of in my family of origin,
everybody in my family and almost makes send of family
(20:54):
run their own businesses, Like it's almost a weird thing
if you go and work for someone else, right, Like
we're the opposite of a lot of people. My family's
full of entrepreneurs and people that run their own businesses.
So it's kind of just that, oh, that's what you do.
You don't do it the other way, right, whereas in
other families it looks different. So I think the thing
of who's here is so much about what are the
(21:14):
stories that we tell ourselves in our head around judgment
around I'm not going to get judged if I do this,
you know, do I have a voice in my head
that says this is unsafe to do it? So the
who's here is very much just around Okay, what influence
is coming in and what they're saying is that even true?
Is that an old story. Is it their story they've
got that they're kind of projecting onto you. Let's be
(21:36):
curious around who's here in this bigger picture.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
I want to talk about boundaries because you said in
the book that it's rare for adults to have received
positive imprints around boundaries. Can you tell me a bit
more about that.
Speaker 1 (21:49):
Yeah, So, I think for most of us growing up,
boundaries either look like this, right, So we'd go to
a parent and say, you know, can I go to
the party on the weekend? And maybe one of our
parents would be like no, and you go, but why?
And the response was usually because I said so, and
that was it, right, and then that.
Speaker 3 (22:04):
Was the end of the story.
Speaker 1 (22:05):
And you might have gone, why but I want to go,
and then it was like shut down, right. And then
on the other end of the scale, perhaps boundaries were
very permissive, where you knew that if you asked your
parent from this angle and that angle and you just
kind of worked it a bit, that eventually go, oh fine,
go right, so you could manipulate it to get where
you wanted.
Speaker 3 (22:21):
And so most people had both of those.
Speaker 1 (22:23):
They had the hard you know this is what it is,
or really permissive boundary and when we think about an
imprint around boundary. What a healthy boundary is, right as
an adult, is when we say no to something. So
I'll talk in the context of a child. We might
say no, you can't go to the party on the weekend,
and then the child might be like, but why I
really want to go? And the next step we do
is and you can tell me how you feel about it, right,
(22:45):
So I am saying no, but I get that you're upset,
so you can tell me how you feel about it,
and in that moment we're allowed to go. It's not
fair everybody else is going I feel like I'm going
to miss out, you know, And the parent is able
to go, Yeah, I hear you, and it's still a no,
but you can tell me how.
Speaker 3 (22:58):
You feel about it, right.
Speaker 1 (23:00):
So we actually start to have what we call a
healthy boundary, which is we have a clear no, but
it's not from a place of disconnection and power over.
It's from a place of connection that says it's a no,
but I'm happy to hear how you feel around what's
going on, right. So that's kind of more in the
context of a parent and a child. So then when
we're thinking about boundaries too. For a lot of people,
as children, their boundaries were not respected, which means their
(23:22):
parents would just come into their rooms, they would go
through their stuff. Maybe they read your diary, maybe you
shared some private information, and then they went and told
it to all their friends and then you heard them
talking about it. There are many ways that we can
have our boundaries violated as kids, and also too for
many of us, when we were children, we didn't actually
get to say no, because we were taught we had
to be good all the time, even simple things like
(23:44):
go and hug Auntie Janis and you're like, I don't
want to hug Auntie Jennie because she smells like cigarettes
and she's got a beer, right, But we were like, no,
I'm overriding your want and you need to go and
hug her. Like that's a body boundary that often we
weren't respected right as kids, or perhaps when we felt
uncomfortab about something. But no, you must do it because
if this isn't this. And yes, there's times where we
need to encourage children, and there's times where it's important
(24:07):
that we hold that tension for them to move into
doing stuff. It's not that kids get to say this
how I'm doing it, and this is what I want right.
We absolutely need boundaries, but a healthy boundary is something
that most people didn't actually receive growing up, and because
of that, we didn't receive healthy boundaries. We often have
a really hard time setting boundaries as adults. And more
than anything, I see women struggle with this because our
(24:29):
boundaries were often overridden because we were taught to be
very good girls when we were growing up, so we
weren't allowed to get angry, we weren't allowed to have
a big no. We may have got upset, but we
were maybe labeled as being too emotional or difficult, so
we weren't actually respected in what our yes and knows were.
And what I have found in my work is that
a lot of women, particularly have a very hard time
(24:50):
knowing what they're yes and their no is and then
actually setting the boundary. And because when we talk about
how do we set a boundary, often the other side
of that is if I say no to a colleague,
or I say no to a child, or I say
no to my in laws, then usually the fear is
and what are they going to think of me, you know?
Or will they not like me anymore? Will they not
love me anymore, or they not think I'm a hard worker,
(25:12):
or and often it becomes our default becomes all about
outsourcing our worth to what everybody else thinks. So it's
so often intertwined with many other layers of I guess
the ways we were raised, And of course our parents
and grandparents are doing the best job they know how,
but often for a lot of people, we were raised
in environments where we were taught that it's about keeping
(25:32):
everybody else happy, and that doesn't work well when it
comes to boundaries.
Speaker 2 (25:36):
So what advice do you find yourself giving people? And
I'm thinking particularly these women that are not great at
certain boundaries, and you know, I can definitely relate to that.
Speaker 1 (25:46):
Yeah, yeah, oh that was my story For a long time.
I had absolute rubbish boundaries, to the point where, you know,
if a client had to rung me and said can
we do a session at ten thirty at night, I'd go, oh, okay,
then you know, if that's what they want.
Speaker 3 (25:56):
I'm like, what what was I thinking?
Speaker 2 (25:58):
Right?
Speaker 1 (25:58):
That it was so about needing everybody else's approval or
keeping everybody else happy, that I didn't actually know how
to have my own boundary So for me, I look
at boundaries when someone struggles with it, and I bring
it back to what we want to see boundaries as
is an act of self love, is an act of
claiming our own space. And again, most of us weren't
taught that, hey, you are worthy of having that right
(26:20):
because it's often been about keeping everyone else happy. So
I often say to people, we want to start with
setting boundaries in ways that are small, because we need
to look for the evidence that it's safe for us
to do it. So it might be if you're a
parent and you've got to your kids pick up from
school and someone comes over and it's like, I need
eighty cupcakes by tomorrow right now. You might be like, oh, okay, okay,
(26:41):
I'll do it. But if it's a no, and usually
I say, if there's a should there, I should do this,
then it should be a no or we need to
pause that. What we want to be able to do
in that moment is say, actually, I can't do that.
This isn't going to work for me right now. That
might feel deeply uncomfortable, particularly if we've got a story
about letting people down. Now, the reality is the school mum,
you will probably just go and find someone else to
(27:01):
see if they can do it right. But we have
to sit with the tension and the uncomfortableness of they
may not like me in saying no, and we have
to start creating evidence that hey, we're still okay when
we say no. Because here's the thing with changing any
of our imprints. We can talk about what we want
it to be and how we want to change it,
but we often have to take steps forward and look
for the evidence that it is safe to change it.
(27:23):
And a lot of the time, because you know, it's
the younger parts of us that usually rule and dictate
our behavior, they are looking for reassurance that it's safe
for us to do it because a lot of often
what turns up is even though we are adults, it's
usually the yinner child and the younger parts of us
that are usually calling the shots, and their map of
the world usually comes from when we were younger and
(27:45):
when they were basically going, hey, it's not safe for
me to say no because I'm five, and really, at
this point in time, my survival is based all on
attachment and achievement. So if I say no to you
and my parent gets angry, well, that's a risk to
my life. So I have to be good and I
have to do what you say. And I think a
lot of the work is sometimes helping us understand that
(28:05):
we're actually an adult. We can say no, we have power,
we can leave, and if this person doesn't like me,
then that is okay.
Speaker 3 (28:12):
That's on them.
Speaker 1 (28:13):
But it takes practice and it takes a little bit
of work to be able to get to that space.
Speaker 2 (28:18):
What stayed with me most from this conversation is Lael's
reminder that setting boundaries isn't about keeping people out. It's
actually an act of self love. So next time you
feel that reflexive I should say yes, just pause and try,
Actually I can't do that right now, and then notice
(28:40):
that you're still okay. Remember to follow or subscribe because
part two of this interview comes out next week, and
if this episode resonated, please share it with a friend
who you think would also benefit from it. If you
like today's show, make sure you follow on your podcast
app to be alerted when new episodes drop. How I
(29:01):
Work was recorded on the traditional land of the Warrangery People,
part of the Kohen Nation.
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