In the first episode of this new mini-series, How I Work listener Ruth writes in to share what she’s learned from bestselling author and computer science professor, Cal Newport.
Cal’s “To Discuss” List is his method of saving countless hours of unnecessary, unscheduled back-and-forth emailing. While it might feel easier to quickly dash off an email when you need something from a colleague, Cal implores you to think long-term, and to save the discussion for when you next meet face-to-face.
Connect with Cal on his website
You can find the full interview here: Cal Newport on how to eliminate 80% of emails in your organisation
***
Pre-order your copy of Time Wise at amantha.com
Connect with me on the socials:
If you’re looking for more tips to improve the way you work, I write a fortnightly newsletter that contains three cool things I have discovered that help me work better, which range from interesting research findings through to gadgets I am loving. You can sign up for that at http://howiwork.co
Visit https://www.amantha.com/podcast for full show notes from all episodes.
Get in touch at amantha@inventium.com.au
CREDITS
Produced by Inventium
Host: Amantha Imber
Sound Engineer: Martin Imber
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Then whenever I had my next meeting with them, I'd
be like, Okay, hold on, I got a lot of
things to go through here, and think, bam bam bam,
bam bam. Go through all the things in that list,
and we just resolve them so quick because there's real
time back and forth. Bam bam, bam, bam bam. Probably
saved many dozens of unscheduled emails per week by just
waiting until I got to those next meeting. So that
(00:21):
was a great That was a great productivity saver for
that particular role.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
We all know that email is one of today's biggest
productivity killers, but do we actually understand why it's so detrimental. Clearly,
it's not completely useless, or we would have dropped the
tool a long time ago. When email first made its
way into our offices, was a massive time saver because
(00:45):
we no longer had to send physical notes to one another,
no longer had to wait to talk about certain things
with certain people in face to face meetings. But like
much of modern technology, it's a double edged sword. My
name is doctor Amantha Imber. I'm an organizational psychologist and
(01:07):
the founder of Behavioral Science Consultancy invent him and this
is how I work a show about how to help
you do your best work. Welcome to the first episode
of your Favorite Tips. Across ten by sized episodes, I'll
be sharing tips from some of the world's best thinkers
that you, the listeners, have found the most useful. We're
(01:29):
covering everything from creating better to do lists to setting
more effective boundaries across your time, and you'll be hearing
from people like best selling authors Sally Hepworth, Corona Cast
host and journalist Norman's One, and Google's productivity advisor Laura
May Martin. Bey's favorite tip comes from Ruth and she writes,
(01:50):
I've been using the two discuss list via the Microsoft
to do list app. I have a separate list for
all my director reports and next level up and when
I'm in meetings and something gets raised and I want
to advise them, I add it to the list with
their name on it. Then when you meet with anyone,
you have a handy list already compiled. It also helps
me keep engaged in meetings that aren't strictly to topic,
(02:11):
as I'm monitoring the discussion for points of interest for
my network. So it was cal Newport, one of my
favorite guests who originally shared that tip on the show.
If you're not familiar with Cal, he is a professor
of computer science at Georgetown University and the best selling
author of books including Deep Work, A World Without Email,
(02:32):
and Digital Minimalism. Here is Cal talking about the too
Discuss list in your book. You talk about a column
in your board that is called to discuss. Can you
talk a bit more about the two discuss columns? I
found that quite interesting.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
Oh, that was critical for my director of Graduate Study
setup because there was a couple people in that role
that I had to talk two weekly. So there's my
department chair and there's lots of issues that the department
chair is the right person to talk to in that role.
And then also there's a programmed administrator, the graduate program
administrator with whom I worked, and so we would meet
(03:12):
a couple times a week usually, and so it was
sort of a two man job. And what I had
with this two discuss column is I realized I could
save a ton of communication if every time I had
something I needed to ask my department chair or ask
my program administrator instead of just shooting off an email
in that moment, which in the moment would give me
a little bit of relief. But every one of those
(03:33):
is a new unscheduled message that's out there, and a
new unscheduled response that's going to come back, and perhaps
even a long back and forth chain of unscheduled messages,
which I learned doing the research for my book is
productivity poison. I would put it under the two discussed column,
and I actually had one for each of those two
different people. Then whenever I had my next meeting with them,
I'd be like, Okay, hold on, I got a lot
of things to go through here, and the bam bam, bam,
(03:54):
bam bam, go through all the things in that list,
and we just resolve them so quick. Because as a
real time back and forth m bam bam, bam bam
probably saved many dozens of unscheduled emails per week by
just waiting until I got to those next meeting. So
that was a great That was a great productivity saver
for that particular role.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
Would you ever come across things that you're like, no,
that this is an urgent thing to discuss, or do
you think that people may be listening going well, when
I fire off an email to someone I need a
response now. Do you think that maybe just overestimating what
is urgent and what is not actually that urgent.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
I mean often when people think they need a response now,
it's because they don't want to keep track of it.
They say, Okay, I want a response now, because I
don't know if you're going to answer or not, and
I can't. I'm not organized enough to keep track of
Like have I heard back from cal about this? So
I just I'm going to send you this email and
just get a response right away so I can take
this off the things I need to worry about. That's
(04:51):
usually why people need immediate responses. It's a function of disorganization,
not an actual function of urgency. Structure solves this proble.
Base Camp, for example, Jason Fried's company, their subject matter
experts have office hours. If you have a question for me,
wait till my office hours. Come to my office hours,
ask me in my office hours. They worry that people
(05:12):
want it put up with the delay. I mean some
of these people only did office hours once a week,
so you could have up to seven days you had
to wait before you could ask someone a question. There
are very few complaints because it turned out urgency was
not really a big issue here. It's just clarity. So
if they know, oh, this is how I ask questions
on Monday mornings, I go there and ask you this question. Okay,
so I'll just have to wait till Monday and then
(05:33):
I'll ask you.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
Let me.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
People are fine. So again I come back to this
a lot. Clarity trumps accessibility. We need an urgent response,
typically not because this actually needs a response right now,
but because I don't want to keep track of it.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
I must say Cal's two discuss list has been one
of my favorite tips too. I currently have two main
two discuss lists, one for my CEO Mish and one
for my assistant Hannah, and it meets it. When I
have my regular meetings them, I can come armed with
my two discuss list and I'm able to reduce the
amount of email discussions that I have with both of them.
(06:07):
As a listener of how I work, you've hopefully picked
up a few tips on this show to help you
work better. But do you want more? And maybe in
a book form, because let's face it, books are the
most awesome thing on the planet. Well, now you can.
In my new book, time Wise, I uncover a wealth
of proven strategies that anyone can use to improve their productivity, work,
(06:31):
and lifestyle. Time Wise brings together all of the gems
that I've learned from conversations with the world's greatest thinkers,
including Adam Grant, Dan Pink, Mia Friedman, and Turia Pitt,
and many many others. Time Wise is launching on July five,
but you can pre order it now from Amantha dot com.
(06:52):
And if you pre order time Wise, I have a
couple of bonuses viewed. First, you'll receive an ebook that
details my top twenty favorite apps and software for being
time wise with email, calendar, passwords, reading, cooking ideas, and more.
You will also get a complimentary spot in a webinar
that I'm running on June twenty nine, where I will
(07:12):
be sharing the tactics from time Wise that I use
most often, and also some bonus ones that are not
in the book that I use and love. Hop onto
Amantha dot com to pre order now. How I Work
is produced by Inventium with production support from Dead Set Studios,
and thank you to Matt Nimba, who does the audio
(07:32):
mix for every episode and makes everything sound so much
better than it would have otherwise. See you next time.
Then whenever I had my next meeting with them, I'd
be like, Okay, hold on, I got a lot of
things to go through here, and think, bam bam bam,
bam bam. Go through all the things in that list,
and we just resolve them so quick because there's real
time back and forth. Bam bam, bam, bam bam. Probably
saved many dozens of unscheduled emails per week by just
waiting until I got to those next meeting. So that
(00:21):
was a great That was a great productivity saver for
that particular role.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
We all know that email is one of today's biggest
productivity killers, but do we actually understand why it's so detrimental. Clearly,
it's not completely useless, or we would have dropped the
tool a long time ago. When email first made its
way into our offices, was a massive time saver because
(00:45):
we no longer had to send physical notes to one another,
no longer had to wait to talk about certain things
with certain people in face to face meetings. But like
much of modern technology, it's a double edged sword. My
name is doctor Amantha Imber. I'm an organizational psychologist and
(01:07):
the founder of Behavioral Science Consultancy invent him and this
is how I work a show about how to help
you do your best work. Welcome to the first episode
of your Favorite Tips. Across ten by sized episodes, I'll
be sharing tips from some of the world's best thinkers
that you, the listeners, have found the most useful. We're
(01:29):
covering everything from creating better to do lists to setting
more effective boundaries across your time, and you'll be hearing
from people like best selling authors Sally Hepworth, Corona Cast
host and journalist Norman's One, and Google's productivity advisor Laura
May Martin. Bey's favorite tip comes from Ruth and she writes,
(01:50):
I've been using the two discuss list via the Microsoft
to do list app. I have a separate list for
all my director reports and next level up and when
I'm in meetings and something gets raised and I want
to advise them, I add it to the list with
their name on it. Then when you meet with anyone,
you have a handy list already compiled. It also helps
me keep engaged in meetings that aren't strictly to topic,
(02:11):
as I'm monitoring the discussion for points of interest for
my network. So it was cal Newport, one of my
favorite guests who originally shared that tip on the show.
If you're not familiar with Cal, he is a professor
of computer science at Georgetown University and the best selling
author of books including Deep Work, A World Without Email,
(02:32):
and Digital Minimalism. Here is Cal talking about the too
Discuss list in your book. You talk about a column
in your board that is called to discuss. Can you
talk a bit more about the two discuss columns? I
found that quite interesting.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
Oh, that was critical for my director of Graduate Study
setup because there was a couple people in that role
that I had to talk two weekly. So there's my
department chair and there's lots of issues that the department
chair is the right person to talk to in that role.
And then also there's a programmed administrator, the graduate program
administrator with whom I worked, and so we would meet
(03:12):
a couple times a week usually, and so it was
sort of a two man job. And what I had
with this two discuss column is I realized I could
save a ton of communication if every time I had
something I needed to ask my department chair or ask
my program administrator instead of just shooting off an email
in that moment, which in the moment would give me
a little bit of relief. But every one of those
(03:33):
is a new unscheduled message that's out there, and a
new unscheduled response that's going to come back, and perhaps
even a long back and forth chain of unscheduled messages,
which I learned doing the research for my book is
productivity poison. I would put it under the two discussed column,
and I actually had one for each of those two
different people. Then whenever I had my next meeting with them,
I'd be like, Okay, hold on, I got a lot
of things to go through here, and the bam bam, bam,
(03:54):
bam bam, go through all the things in that list,
and we just resolve them so quick. Because as a
real time back and forth m bam bam, bam bam
probably saved many dozens of unscheduled emails per week by
just waiting until I got to those next meeting. So
that was a great That was a great productivity saver
for that particular role.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
Would you ever come across things that you're like, no,
that this is an urgent thing to discuss, or do
you think that people may be listening going well, when
I fire off an email to someone I need a
response now. Do you think that maybe just overestimating what
is urgent and what is not actually that urgent.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
I mean often when people think they need a response now,
it's because they don't want to keep track of it.
They say, Okay, I want a response now, because I
don't know if you're going to answer or not, and
I can't. I'm not organized enough to keep track of
Like have I heard back from cal about this? So
I just I'm going to send you this email and
just get a response right away so I can take
this off the things I need to worry about. That's
(04:51):
usually why people need immediate responses. It's a function of disorganization,
not an actual function of urgency. Structure solves this proble.
Base Camp, for example, Jason Fried's company, their subject matter
experts have office hours. If you have a question for me,
wait till my office hours. Come to my office hours,
ask me in my office hours. They worry that people
(05:12):
want it put up with the delay. I mean some
of these people only did office hours once a week,
so you could have up to seven days you had
to wait before you could ask someone a question. There
are very few complaints because it turned out urgency was
not really a big issue here. It's just clarity. So
if they know, oh, this is how I ask questions
on Monday mornings, I go there and ask you this question. Okay,
so I'll just have to wait till Monday and then
(05:33):
I'll ask you.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
Let me.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
People are fine. So again I come back to this
a lot. Clarity trumps accessibility. We need an urgent response,
typically not because this actually needs a response right now,
but because I don't want to keep track of it.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
I must say Cal's two discuss list has been one
of my favorite tips too. I currently have two main
two discuss lists, one for my CEO Mish and one
for my assistant Hannah, and it meets it. When I
have my regular meetings them, I can come armed with
my two discuss list and I'm able to reduce the
amount of email discussions that I have with both of them.
(06:07):
As a listener of how I work, you've hopefully picked
up a few tips on this show to help you
work better. But do you want more? And maybe in
a book form, because let's face it, books are the
most awesome thing on the planet. Well, now you can.
In my new book, time Wise, I uncover a wealth
of proven strategies that anyone can use to improve their productivity, work,
(06:31):
and lifestyle. Time Wise brings together all of the gems
that I've learned from conversations with the world's greatest thinkers,
including Adam Grant, Dan Pink, Mia Friedman, and Turia Pitt,
and many many others. Time Wise is launching on July five,
but you can pre order it now from Amantha dot com.
(06:52):
And if you pre order time Wise, I have a
couple of bonuses viewed. First, you'll receive an ebook that
details my top twenty favorite apps and software for being
time wise with email, calendar, passwords, reading, cooking ideas, and more.
You will also get a complimentary spot in a webinar
that I'm running on June twenty nine, where I will
(07:12):
be sharing the tactics from time Wise that I use
most often, and also some bonus ones that are not
in the book that I use and love. Hop onto
Amantha dot com to pre order now. How I Work
is produced by Inventium with production support from Dead Set Studios,
and thank you to Matt Nimba, who does the audio
(07:32):
mix for every episode and makes everything sound so much
better than it would have otherwise. See you next time.
Popular Podcasts
United States of Kennedy
United States of Kennedy is a podcast about our cultural fascination with the Kennedy dynasty. Every week, hosts Lyra Smith and George Civeris go into one aspect of the Kennedy story.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com